You're apparently unaware of the countless other companies that have gotten into legal trouble over stuff like this.
. . . . . Ah, so when windows updates I can sue Microsoft because they changed the Operating System since I bought it? Dang, I'm going to be rich! Thanks!
. . . . . Anyway, I'm glad they're fixing this and hope they continue to fix things like this. One item should never be so over-powering and this has been a topic for quite some time. Besides, one does not buy any virtual items in the game, as it is all owned by Perfect World. All one is buying is the access to use them, not own them and that access may be revoked or changed with or without notice as outlined in the legal terms for the game.
. . . . . Ah, so when windows updates I can sue Microsoft because they changed the Operating System since I bought it? Dang, I'm going to be rich! Thanks!
So you think Windows can change anything they want in their operating system without running into legal trouble? I know you're not that naive.
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zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
So you think Windows can change anything they want in their operating system without running into legal trouble? I know you're not that naive.
. . . . . . I was being sarcastic and I am sure you knew that, for you're not that naive either. Do have a look through the Terms of Service and EULA. You own nothing in this game no matter how much money you spend. That's my point.
I really don't understand all the problems here.
It's not like they become unuseful. They just get through the damage resistance. If that's a problem, they may as well nerf it another way. Why? Simple: it's true that you get the item through zen Keys.
But the game has a AD-Zen Exchange system. So you can get the Keys with, roughly, 50k AD (or 60, depends on the change). Meaning that paying is NOT the only way.
Second: buying the key you buy the chance to open a box and get a prize. You do not buy the way the enchant you can get by chance, works. You paid for the key, you got the key and could open the box.
It would be different if tenes were directly purchased with money. But that's not the case. Through AD-Zen Exchange you can get ANYTHING the Zen market has to offer.
Zen Mount? 1.2 milions AD roughly. Go to CN, farm stuff, sell, change AD to Zen and buy the Mount.
What i'm saying is, if you choose to pay to have stuff faster, it's your choice and i respect it.
If you pay and feel entitled to get some Golden stuff that guarantee you a clear advantage over other players, you're wrong. You're advantage is, you get stuff faster and easier, and you don't have to run through 45 minutes dungeons to have a chance to loot something good to sell. That's what you pay for.
For example, you can pay 35 dollars/ euros to get a zen Mount. I can get the same Mount farming stuff, selling it, making dailies and, may be after months, have enough AD to buy 3.5k zen for the Mount. Do you feel damaged cause i got your same Mount, but didn't pay for it? No. You got it a lot faster.
So, tenebrous are not items you can get ONLY through money. And you buy the key, not the enchant itself, or the way it works. If you don't get the enchant out of the box you open, you do not ask for a refund.
People will still spend money cause it helps them get stuff fast.
Seriously, if i were a LS member or someone like the guy who wrote in another topic that he can get 3.5 mil AD in a week, i would just change AD to zen and buy the Keys, instead of spending real money. And i would enjoy the dungeon runs that help me collect the stuff needed.
This said, if people complains cause rogues can't do monster damage with impact shot with this nerf, or cause a 38k sentinel tank or GF tank can't burst damage for 7k just from tenebrous stacked, then i suggest those players to leave. Tenebrous is not the only source of money for them.
Zen Mounts are sold like crazy. People will Always pay to get stuff to make AD faster and buy better gear without the need to work hard in game to get it. Just the chance to buy zen and convert them to AD can push zen purchase a lot.
Really, tenebrous are not a must for this game, and if they get nerfed to a normal enchant level, i do agree.
Lastly, i will say again, no ONE made these people spend real money on these items, it was their choice. I personally see this item as an exploit they are all using.
When PWI offered oranges for sale, players bought and payed for the oranges but instead they are now going to received apples. Now tell me what is this..
People should really read terms of service when they are signing up for a game. Items should not overpowered, it is their item to change, and from what i read it is not working as intended, and now they are fixing it. I see no problem here, no one told the masses to rush and spend their money to get these items. As Zebular stated, according to the logic you have stated, if Microsoft has windows updates, and it changes the function of something, i guess they can legal action can be taken. Your logic makes no sense, just enjoy the game it is not real life, nothing to get upset about. Lastly, i will say again, no ONE made these people spend real money on these items, it was their choice. I personally see this item as an exploit they are all using.
Just my opinion...
I think that the main problem behind tenes is that devs didn't think the players would be so sick to the point of spending hundred, or thousands of dollars to open hundred of boxes and craft Gtenes to stack 6 or 7 of the enchant on already overgeared tanky builds.
Also, i agree with the terms of service point. It's stated, and i've read that line carefully from the start, that you do not own the stuff you get in game. you character is not yours. it's Cryptic's.
I think people get a bit out of track in these games, giving in-game stuff too much importance. It's ok to spend a bit of money and support the company.
Getting all nerdish, spending tons of money and playing the game like a job to have a powerful character and feel strong, on the other side... well, you're doing it wrong.
Just enjoy the game instead of getting obsessed about being the best <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> around.
The problem is that this is a reaction to the majority and lowest lvl of play in this game
When they should be looking at the highest lvl of play were people actually undertsand the game
In the top level of play tenes can be dealt with, they are not imbalanced
i can understand some form of nerf to adjust to the definition of other enchants or abilities like tenes not going through soulforge or dodges.
But this is just fundamentally flawed nerf.
If i may take the example of the earlier days of pvp, the majority of players were complaining that great weapon fighters were useless in pvp and needed a buff, but in meanwhile a few top players were using the sentinel gwf spec we still use today, and o look at that they were buffed because people complained.
No this is not balance, this is just reacting to a majority complaining because they dont understand the game
When PWI offered oranges for sale, players bought and payed for the oranges but instead they are now going to received apples. Now tell me what is this..
You do not buy the enchant. You bought the key (if you paid real money for zen, which you're not forced to, since there's a AD-zen Exchange system) and you got the key. The key is needed to open the box, and you can get various items from that box. Items you do not own according to the terms of service. Just like any item in game.
Basically, if you paid for a 3.5k zen Mount, you do not own it either.
You paid for the chance to open a box, you got that chance. That's all.
o and of course people have only heard about people complaining about the enchant, why would people talk about how they are satisfied with how it works the way it does ?
You do not buy the enchant. You bought the key (if you paid real money for zen, which you're not forced to, since there's a AD-zen Exchange system) and you got the key. The key is needed to open the box, and you can get various items from that box. Items you do not own according to the terms of service. Just like any item in game.
Basically, if you paid for a 3.5k zen Mount, you do not own it either.
You paid for the chance to open a box, you got that chance. That's all.
The problem is that this is a reaction to the majority and lowest lvl of play in this game when it comes to balance when they should be listening to the top lvl of play, where people actually use all the abilities at their disposal.
In the top level of play tenes can be dealt with, they are not imbalanced, i can understand some form of nerf to adjust to the definition of other enchants or abilities like tenes not going through soulforge or dodges.
But this is just fundamentally flawed nerf.
If i may take the example of the earlier days of pvp, the majority of players were complaining that great weapon fighters were useless in pvp and needed a buff, but in meanwhile a few top players were using the sentinel gwf spec we still use today, and o look at that they were buffed because people complained.
No this is not balance, this is just reacting to a majority complaining because they dont understand the game
The point is, i can agree about the necrotic damage tooltip and how it pass through all defenses. Now, if devs want, they can also change the damage of tenes from necrotic to another kind of damage, and there's nothing you can do about it.
I think that what the dev meant is that when they designed the tenes, they didn't want them to do a flat damage regardless of any defense. One way or another, i think they'll fix it.
Also: top level players, when on offensive/ combat class, almost all stack tenes on tanky builds. And LS guys, which are considered top players, stated that the way to deal with tenes is barkshield enchant. Which is easy to figure out. I went for barkshield way before reading that. But the point is, that top players look at tenebrous from a point of view where most players use them on tanky builds. What kind of feedback do you see in this? They all use that build cause it's by far the most effective.
Also: devs do not change the game according to complaints. They probably read the complaints, looked into tenebrous enchants and found out that something go to be changed.
No, it's not an opinion. It's the terms of service. You should really read them before starting a mmorpg.
And it's a fact that what you buy is a key, that gives you the chance to open a box. Which gives you a chance to get a variety of items. A chance. Nothing else. You paid, you got the key.
Did people think about legal issues when they opened a box and didn't get a tenebrous? No. Cause they did not pay for the enchant, but for the key, and they got what they paid for.
Also, let's ssee this: you buy a key. But before you can use it, Cryptic replaces the box you can loot in gamewith another box with different items inside (we got 3 different changes through time, and each box was different from the previous). According to your reasoning, you should be legally pursuing them. But you can't. Cause what you bought is the key, not the items. And the key does exactly what it says it does: open a box.
however you seem to be ignoring the emerging builds that use 0 tenes in the top pvp scene that are making very strong waves, and these builds completely fight alongside and against tenes without a problem
Tenebrous may be counterable, but they are not marginal increases like just about every other enchant in the game. Tenebrous pretty much requires being greaters with at least 4 to 5, preferrably 6-7, to really be effective.
This widens the gap between your hardcore/or heavy spending player and your average player (not casual) who plays a decent amount and spends money in smaller amounts. This alienates those that spend 10-20 bucks a month. These are your low margin players. Yet the low margin players are really where the money is at, because they outnumber the heavy spenders by a wide margin. For every 1 guy that will spend $100 dollars in a month, there are probably 50 that spend 10-20. Lose those 50, and the heavy spenders will not be able to carry the game. Not only that, they will get bored as the large number of players move on to other pastures.
Mindflayer - Exodus
Daria - Dwarf Sentinel GWF (mistaken for Halfling a lot)
Karia (aka "The Pug") - Human Combat HR
Kayd - Human Conqueror GF - Retired
And you believe that after nearly half a year into the game, with Tenebs being the most talked about, sought after and infamous enchant, that they truly never intended for them to function the way they do? That right now in this point in time, they need to be radically changed and redefined? After countless people have spent real money or time in game (pve) to acquire them? Right...
That's the kicker!
This long after release and they are the most talked about think on the forums, yet they come up with this <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> now.
Sorry, but they need to come up with a middle ground here, because its going from one extreme to another.
however you seem to be ignoring the emerging builds that use 0 tenes in the top pvp scene that are making very strong waves, and these builds completely fight alongside and against tenes without a problem
Some examples? I still don't see destroyers being used by top PvPers.
But if alternative builds are emerging, it's just better.
Tenebrous may be counterable, but they are not marginal increases like just about every other enchant in the game. Tenebrous pretty much requires being greaters with at least 4 to 5, preferrably 6-7, to really be effective.
Thats simply not true, having Rank 5 Darks is nothing compared to having Rank 10s. The same way that having a Lesser Vorpal is nothing compared to having a Perfect. All people are saying by complaining about Tenes is that better items are better. What does that prove? Nothing. The same people who don't have Gtenes are the same people who don't have Perfect Enchants and Rank 10s. Shall we nerf those as well?
Guild: Lemonade Stand | Server: Dragon (Original) | PvP Forever | 1og0s * TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
This to those those old enough to remember is cryptics
NGE
And just like soe, they will suffer for this moronic idea.
The top end of you customers spend money on enchants like this, but you want to change it many many months after the game was in open beta (why didnt you change it then?)
And getting rid of it now, I hope those enjoying this enjoy there content, because they are going to need to spend a lot more to get it, because its the very competitive players who spend the most, yet they want to <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> them off lol.
for example, extremely tanky cleric build like GCTRL,
crit guardian fighters like the ones we use right now in our teams use 0 tenes are arguably the strongest asset to our team,
damage focused cws that can basically snipe out any class with one rotation with 0 tenes
damage focused trs with again 0 tenes
they simply use different strategies, they use their knowledge and the abilities that are at their disposal, contrarily to most that simply complain and fail to see the higher level of play
And LS guys, which are considered top players, stated that the way to deal with tenes is barkshield enchant. Which is easy to figure out. I went for barkshield way before reading that.
Lol your posts make me cringe man, how was it easy to figure this out? It's completely non-intuitive, your wall-of-text posts have bs written all over them.
Guild: Lemonade Stand | Server: Dragon (Original) | PvP Forever | 1og0s * TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
This change seems to me as if we were playing rock-paper-scissors, and because people complain the rock can never beat the paper, they simply take out the paper, when they fail to see the scissors.
for example, extremely tanky cleric build like GCTRL,
crit guardian fighters like the ones we use right now in our teams use 0 tenes are arguably the strongest asset to our team,
damage focused cws that can basically snipe out any class with one rotation with 0 tenes
damage focused trs with again 0 tenes
they simply use different strategies, they use their knowledge and the abilities that are at their disposal, contrarily to most that simply complain and fail to see the higher level of play
Just a few of the players going through LS on gateway...
Now, I have no problem using the game mechanics in game to win, like teneb enchants.
But dont act all high and mighty like youve "evolved" past them because they are beneath you when most of your A-team players use them, and rightfully so.
This change seems to me as if we were playing rock-paper-scissors, and because people complain the rock can never beat the paper, they simply take out the paper, when they fail to see the scissors.
And scissors equals what exactly? Barkshield? You know as well an I or anyone who has tested this, it CAN negate the first round of tenebs, although if it eats non teneb damage it does nothing against it.
Im not saying it doesnt help, but its no "counter" like people believe. The other thing is that is forces players into using that armor enchant allowing teneb users to use things like SF. So it can HELP against tenebs but its not a hard counter.
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xmeanseason305xMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 109Bounty Hunter
OPTION 1)
Tene enchant does % of weapon base as necrotic damage, much like lifedrinker, like Terror etc... Its all based on WEAPON damage.
Lesser = 4.4%
Normal = 6.1%
Greater= 7%
Same numbers as lifedrinker, except this just does damage... Stackable so TWO GTEs would just do 14% NOT TWO different 7%s... You could also stack this with other sources of necro LIKE LD or Terror....
OPTION 2)
STEP 1) Bring the CD BACK to about the 8 second range and make that a HARD 8 second CD NOT A server side CD.
STEP 2) Make tene enchants NO LONGER based on CURRENT HP, but BASE (PRE BUFFED) HP. MY guardian fighter has something like 25k HP unbuffed via talents/feats/enchants/gear. So THIS would be the number it is now based on, not his CURRENT HP pool of 32k.
STEEP 3) ONLY allow 1 tene to PROC at once AND tene should NOT be able to proc off DoTs. This means that ONLY at will/encounters will proc tene enchants.
Both of these options actually wouldnt be too bad of an idea... Hmmmm
There has to be some kind of middle ground for everyone involved... I dont have any toons w tene's i've always preferred flat static , constant dmg... Hence why i always aim to hit 25% arpen high crit and enchant perfect vorpal.... However i feel a bit horrible for everyone who has gone this route.. I have said it in my stream multiple times that a change was coming to the tene player base.. Been saying it for almost 2 months... Some listened and many kept going this route... The tene dmg being countered by dodge is cool, countered by deflection... I guess it's cool but not needed...for it to be effectice w deflection you would need a high deflection chance.. So it's kind of a meh change... But honestly just throw on a greater/perf barkshield and it should eat up most of the tene inc damage.
Tene ignoring armor change:
Again... I want to state i DO NOT have ANY tene build toons.
However this is a wrong way of going about it.
Necrotic dmg SHOULD ignore armor/dmg res. this has been the community understood definition of necrotic dmg.
Im ok w dodge abd deflection helping to avoid gtene dmg but to sit here and say you are changing the entire meaning of a tenebrous enchanment months after knowing how "OP" the enchant was being deemed is kind of a let down.
If you guys are really going to go through with this... You have to find a way to compensate all the players who spent time and endless Astral Diamonds to build their tene set up's.
Maybe a vendor that salvages a greater tene for whatever the avg cost of it as of 2 days ago was?
Or...
A enchant trade vendor that gives a rank 9 of your choice for your gtene?
I fear many good players might leave the game if nothing is done... There has to be a middle ground for everyone involved.
Lastly... I honestly dont think gtene's in it's current state is Too OP.
Barksheild helps alot... And if you make it dodgeable and add the deflection element sure alil more countering for gtene
Things that also need to be fixed :
If you would have fixed soulforge months ago... Im sure we wouldnt be at this point to begin with.
Anyways just throwing out some thoughts... Sympathetic this morning...
Please dont go this route w gtene... It should IGNORE dmg res./armor since it is necrotic damage.
Last thing: have devs thought about maybe making the icd a little longer and keeping the ignore armor?
I mean currently a gtene build player pretty much is like having 4 encounters to our 3.
Why not increase the icd one more time.. Initially it was around 8 ... Currently 20...
However we forget that tene can also proc off dots no?
Why not leave tenebrous dmg to ignore armor/dmg res...BUT increase the icd to say 28-30 sec icd and keep tene dmg dodgable/deflectable? Just my 2 cents.
This to those those old enough to remember is cryptics
NGE
And just like soe, they will suffer for this moronic idea.
LOL you are honestly trying to compare a nerf to a single enchantment. That no longer even drops any more. To a set of changes that altered a game on fundemental levels. From altering freeform classless play to a handful of classes. And switching from an open sandbox to a themepark.
Lol your posts make me cringe man, how was it easy to figure this out? It's completely non-intuitive, your wall-of-text posts have bs written all over them.
Nice troll attempt. It can be figured out just because barkshield can absorb, at perfect rank, 2.4k damage with 3 charges. It's a flat value that can very well match a high spike damage coming from stacked tenebrous. It's not a sure thing, but looks the best you can do to counter that enchant.
Also, the reasons why i went for it (still going for it to be honest, crafting it slowly), i explained them in many other topics.
Soulforged gives you immunity under 25% hp. It's perfect for a TR that can use those 5 seconds to slip away and go stealth or unleash his high DPS encounters to finish the enemy.
But for my hybrid GWF it would not be that effective, since in 5 seconds, even if i sprint away, i hardly can avoid a Group of enemies chasing me. Barkshield is more flexible, provides damage absorption at the start when you've 3 charges, and then every 8 seconds gives you more damage mitigation. If you disengage, you can either choose if you want to go back into the brawl and use the single charge, or wait 16 seconds for 2 charges, or 24 seconds for the full 3 charges. It's more useful, if you ask me, in sustained fights and gives me more options to chose from when it comes to tactics.
What i wrote may seem bs to you, but still it's the truth and has been stated by the mod too. Who bought the Keys got other options that did not involve real money, and bought the key only, not the enchant directly.
Plus, all you got, your character included, is property of cryptic. Not yours. Included the zen mounts you buy.
We've been looking at the Tenebrous Enchant some more, and we have a few changes in the works that should be going to preview pretty soon. We've talked about various ideas on what to do, but this is what we've decided to look at first:
Currently, Tenebrous ignores three things that it is not supposed to ignore: Damage Resistance (from AC and Defense, mostly), Deflection, and Shift-Dodges (like the Trickster Rogue roll and Control Wizard teleport). It will no longer ignore these three things. This means the damage it deals will go down as you'll now be able to resist the damage, Deflect stat won't be wasted against it, and if you time your Shifts right, you can avoid the damage.
We'll be monitoring the change on Preview, and looking to see if it has the desired result.
Thanks for all your feedback, everyone!
I really hope you guys make the CD decrease as the enchant is already worthless in PVE. I hope you consider the DPS of the enchant and buff that and it looks like the decrease in burst damage is coming via these changes for PVP issues.
I would warn that balancing the enchant is a very very good thing, if you ONLY do the proposed changes, this will break the enchant and <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> alot of people off...
Thats simply not true, having Rank 5 Darks is nothing compared to having Rank 10s. The same way that having a Lesser Vorpal is nothing compared to having a Perfect. All people are saying by complaining about Tenes is that better items are better. What does that prove? Nothing. The same people who don't have Gtenes are the same people who don't have Perfect Enchants and Rank 10s. Shall we nerf those as well?
Rank 5s aren't, but rank 8s are pretty close and pretty attainable. Not only that, each time you upgrade just one, it gives a measurable increase. I have faced a rogue decked with rank 10 darks in both 1v1 and team play, and it is not even remotely close to facing a rogue decked in Tenebrous.
Mindflayer - Exodus
Daria - Dwarf Sentinel GWF (mistaken for Halfling a lot)
Karia (aka "The Pug") - Human Combat HR
Kayd - Human Conqueror GF - Retired
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pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Just a few of the players going through LS on gateway...
I'm sorry, but this is facepalm worthy. Especially the mages with 0 crit, no ArP and tenes. It just shows that it's either tenes, or nothing. So very lame. This enchant basically kills diversity.
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. . . . . Anyway, I'm glad they're fixing this and hope they continue to fix things like this. One item should never be so over-powering and this has been a topic for quite some time. Besides, one does not buy any virtual items in the game, as it is all owned by Perfect World. All one is buying is the access to use them, not own them and that access may be revoked or changed with or without notice as outlined in the legal terms for the game.
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
So you think Windows can change anything they want in their operating system without running into legal trouble? I know you're not that naive.
* TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
It's not like they become unuseful. They just get through the damage resistance. If that's a problem, they may as well nerf it another way. Why? Simple: it's true that you get the item through zen Keys.
But the game has a AD-Zen Exchange system. So you can get the Keys with, roughly, 50k AD (or 60, depends on the change). Meaning that paying is NOT the only way.
Second: buying the key you buy the chance to open a box and get a prize. You do not buy the way the enchant you can get by chance, works. You paid for the key, you got the key and could open the box.
It would be different if tenes were directly purchased with money. But that's not the case. Through AD-Zen Exchange you can get ANYTHING the Zen market has to offer.
Zen Mount? 1.2 milions AD roughly. Go to CN, farm stuff, sell, change AD to Zen and buy the Mount.
What i'm saying is, if you choose to pay to have stuff faster, it's your choice and i respect it.
If you pay and feel entitled to get some Golden stuff that guarantee you a clear advantage over other players, you're wrong. You're advantage is, you get stuff faster and easier, and you don't have to run through 45 minutes dungeons to have a chance to loot something good to sell. That's what you pay for.
For example, you can pay 35 dollars/ euros to get a zen Mount. I can get the same Mount farming stuff, selling it, making dailies and, may be after months, have enough AD to buy 3.5k zen for the Mount. Do you feel damaged cause i got your same Mount, but didn't pay for it? No. You got it a lot faster.
So, tenebrous are not items you can get ONLY through money. And you buy the key, not the enchant itself, or the way it works. If you don't get the enchant out of the box you open, you do not ask for a refund.
People will still spend money cause it helps them get stuff fast.
Seriously, if i were a LS member or someone like the guy who wrote in another topic that he can get 3.5 mil AD in a week, i would just change AD to zen and buy the Keys, instead of spending real money. And i would enjoy the dungeon runs that help me collect the stuff needed.
This said, if people complains cause rogues can't do monster damage with impact shot with this nerf, or cause a 38k sentinel tank or GF tank can't burst damage for 7k just from tenebrous stacked, then i suggest those players to leave. Tenebrous is not the only source of money for them.
Zen Mounts are sold like crazy. People will Always pay to get stuff to make AD faster and buy better gear without the need to work hard in game to get it. Just the chance to buy zen and convert them to AD can push zen purchase a lot.
Really, tenebrous are not a must for this game, and if they get nerfed to a normal enchant level, i do agree.
When PWI offered oranges for sale, players bought and payed for the oranges but instead they are now going to received apples. Now tell me what is this..
I think that the main problem behind tenes is that devs didn't think the players would be so sick to the point of spending hundred, or thousands of dollars to open hundred of boxes and craft Gtenes to stack 6 or 7 of the enchant on already overgeared tanky builds.
Also, i agree with the terms of service point. It's stated, and i've read that line carefully from the start, that you do not own the stuff you get in game. you character is not yours. it's Cryptic's.
I think people get a bit out of track in these games, giving in-game stuff too much importance. It's ok to spend a bit of money and support the company.
Getting all nerdish, spending tons of money and playing the game like a job to have a powerful character and feel strong, on the other side... well, you're doing it wrong.
Just enjoy the game instead of getting obsessed about being the best <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> around.
When they should be looking at the highest lvl of play were people actually undertsand the game
In the top level of play tenes can be dealt with, they are not imbalanced
i can understand some form of nerf to adjust to the definition of other enchants or abilities like tenes not going through soulforge or dodges.
But this is just fundamentally flawed nerf.
If i may take the example of the earlier days of pvp, the majority of players were complaining that great weapon fighters were useless in pvp and needed a buff, but in meanwhile a few top players were using the sentinel gwf spec we still use today, and o look at that they were buffed because people complained.
No this is not balance, this is just reacting to a majority complaining because they dont understand the game
You do not buy the enchant. You bought the key (if you paid real money for zen, which you're not forced to, since there's a AD-zen Exchange system) and you got the key. The key is needed to open the box, and you can get various items from that box. Items you do not own according to the terms of service. Just like any item in game.
Basically, if you paid for a 3.5k zen Mount, you do not own it either.
You paid for the chance to open a box, you got that chance. That's all.
the nerf is just a poor excuse because people have complained enough
and its a bad nerf that dosent take in account real balance because they have just listened to opinion of people that dont understand the game fully
instead of actually looking at the game and understanding that they are going to far because these enchants are being dealt with
Its your opinion other people have different one.
The point is, i can agree about the necrotic damage tooltip and how it pass through all defenses. Now, if devs want, they can also change the damage of tenes from necrotic to another kind of damage, and there's nothing you can do about it.
I think that what the dev meant is that when they designed the tenes, they didn't want them to do a flat damage regardless of any defense. One way or another, i think they'll fix it.
Also: top level players, when on offensive/ combat class, almost all stack tenes on tanky builds. And LS guys, which are considered top players, stated that the way to deal with tenes is barkshield enchant. Which is easy to figure out. I went for barkshield way before reading that. But the point is, that top players look at tenebrous from a point of view where most players use them on tanky builds. What kind of feedback do you see in this? They all use that build cause it's by far the most effective.
Also: devs do not change the game according to complaints. They probably read the complaints, looked into tenebrous enchants and found out that something go to be changed.
No, it's not an opinion. It's the terms of service. You should really read them before starting a mmorpg.
And it's a fact that what you buy is a key, that gives you the chance to open a box. Which gives you a chance to get a variety of items. A chance. Nothing else. You paid, you got the key.
Did people think about legal issues when they opened a box and didn't get a tenebrous? No. Cause they did not pay for the enchant, but for the key, and they got what they paid for.
Also, let's ssee this: you buy a key. But before you can use it, Cryptic replaces the box you can loot in gamewith another box with different items inside (we got 3 different changes through time, and each box was different from the previous). According to your reasoning, you should be legally pursuing them. But you can't. Cause what you bought is the key, not the items. And the key does exactly what it says it does: open a box.
This widens the gap between your hardcore/or heavy spending player and your average player (not casual) who plays a decent amount and spends money in smaller amounts. This alienates those that spend 10-20 bucks a month. These are your low margin players. Yet the low margin players are really where the money is at, because they outnumber the heavy spenders by a wide margin. For every 1 guy that will spend $100 dollars in a month, there are probably 50 that spend 10-20. Lose those 50, and the heavy spenders will not be able to carry the game. Not only that, they will get bored as the large number of players move on to other pastures.
Daria - Dwarf Sentinel GWF (mistaken for Halfling a lot)
Karia (aka "The Pug") - Human Combat HR
Kayd - Human Conqueror GF - Retired
That's the kicker!
This long after release and they are the most talked about think on the forums, yet they come up with this <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> now.
Sorry, but they need to come up with a middle ground here, because its going from one extreme to another.
Some examples? I still don't see destroyers being used by top PvPers.
But if alternative builds are emerging, it's just better.
Thats simply not true, having Rank 5 Darks is nothing compared to having Rank 10s. The same way that having a Lesser Vorpal is nothing compared to having a Perfect. All people are saying by complaining about Tenes is that better items are better. What does that prove? Nothing. The same people who don't have Gtenes are the same people who don't have Perfect Enchants and Rank 10s. Shall we nerf those as well?
* TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
NGE
And just like soe, they will suffer for this moronic idea.
The top end of you customers spend money on enchants like this, but you want to change it many many months after the game was in open beta (why didnt you change it then?)
And getting rid of it now, I hope those enjoying this enjoy there content, because they are going to need to spend a lot more to get it, because its the very competitive players who spend the most, yet they want to <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> them off lol.
crit guardian fighters like the ones we use right now in our teams use 0 tenes are arguably the strongest asset to our team,
damage focused cws that can basically snipe out any class with one rotation with 0 tenes
damage focused trs with again 0 tenes
they simply use different strategies, they use their knowledge and the abilities that are at their disposal, contrarily to most that simply complain and fail to see the higher level of play
Lol your posts make me cringe man, how was it easy to figure this out? It's completely non-intuitive, your wall-of-text posts have bs written all over them.
* TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
http://gateway.playneverwinter.com/#char(lil Roidz@venomous10)/charactersheet
http://gateway.playneverwinter.com/#char(AllT@alt2j)/charactersheet
http://gateway.playneverwinter.com/#char(FooSoo@foosoo)/charactersheet
http://gateway.playneverwinter.com/#char(Lil Proxi@Cygnario)/charactersheet
http://gateway.playneverwinter.com/#char(Angel@foosoo)/charactersheet
Just a few of the players going through LS on gateway...
Now, I have no problem using the game mechanics in game to win, like teneb enchants.
But dont act all high and mighty like youve "evolved" past them because they are beneath you when most of your A-team players use them, and rightfully so.
And scissors equals what exactly? Barkshield? You know as well an I or anyone who has tested this, it CAN negate the first round of tenebs, although if it eats non teneb damage it does nothing against it.
Im not saying it doesnt help, but its no "counter" like people believe. The other thing is that is forces players into using that armor enchant allowing teneb users to use things like SF. So it can HELP against tenebs but its not a hard counter.
Both of these options actually wouldnt be too bad of an idea... Hmmmm
There has to be some kind of middle ground for everyone involved... I dont have any toons w tene's i've always preferred flat static , constant dmg... Hence why i always aim to hit 25% arpen high crit and enchant perfect vorpal.... However i feel a bit horrible for everyone who has gone this route.. I have said it in my stream multiple times that a change was coming to the tene player base.. Been saying it for almost 2 months... Some listened and many kept going this route... The tene dmg being countered by dodge is cool, countered by deflection... I guess it's cool but not needed...for it to be effectice w deflection you would need a high deflection chance.. So it's kind of a meh change... But honestly just throw on a greater/perf barkshield and it should eat up most of the tene inc damage.
Tene ignoring armor change:
Again... I want to state i DO NOT have ANY tene build toons.
However this is a wrong way of going about it.
Necrotic dmg SHOULD ignore armor/dmg res. this has been the community understood definition of necrotic dmg.
Im ok w dodge abd deflection helping to avoid gtene dmg but to sit here and say you are changing the entire meaning of a tenebrous enchanment months after knowing how "OP" the enchant was being deemed is kind of a let down.
If you guys are really going to go through with this... You have to find a way to compensate all the players who spent time and endless Astral Diamonds to build their tene set up's.
Maybe a vendor that salvages a greater tene for whatever the avg cost of it as of 2 days ago was?
Or...
A enchant trade vendor that gives a rank 9 of your choice for your gtene?
I fear many good players might leave the game if nothing is done... There has to be a middle ground for everyone involved.
Lastly... I honestly dont think gtene's in it's current state is Too OP.
Barksheild helps alot... And if you make it dodgeable and add the deflection element sure alil more countering for gtene
Things that also need to be fixed :
If you would have fixed soulforge months ago... Im sure we wouldnt be at this point to begin with.
Anyways just throwing out some thoughts... Sympathetic this morning...
Please dont go this route w gtene... It should IGNORE dmg res./armor since it is necrotic damage.
Last thing: have devs thought about maybe making the icd a little longer and keeping the ignore armor?
I mean currently a gtene build player pretty much is like having 4 encounters to our 3.
Why not increase the icd one more time.. Initially it was around 8 ... Currently 20...
However we forget that tene can also proc off dots no?
Why not leave tenebrous dmg to ignore armor/dmg res...BUT increase the icd to say 28-30 sec icd and keep tene dmg dodgable/deflectable? Just my 2 cents.
LOL you are honestly trying to compare a nerf to a single enchantment. That no longer even drops any more. To a set of changes that altered a game on fundemental levels. From altering freeform classless play to a handful of classes. And switching from an open sandbox to a themepark.
Your hyperbole is laughable.
Nice troll attempt. It can be figured out just because barkshield can absorb, at perfect rank, 2.4k damage with 3 charges. It's a flat value that can very well match a high spike damage coming from stacked tenebrous. It's not a sure thing, but looks the best you can do to counter that enchant.
Also, the reasons why i went for it (still going for it to be honest, crafting it slowly), i explained them in many other topics.
Soulforged gives you immunity under 25% hp. It's perfect for a TR that can use those 5 seconds to slip away and go stealth or unleash his high DPS encounters to finish the enemy.
But for my hybrid GWF it would not be that effective, since in 5 seconds, even if i sprint away, i hardly can avoid a Group of enemies chasing me. Barkshield is more flexible, provides damage absorption at the start when you've 3 charges, and then every 8 seconds gives you more damage mitigation. If you disengage, you can either choose if you want to go back into the brawl and use the single charge, or wait 16 seconds for 2 charges, or 24 seconds for the full 3 charges. It's more useful, if you ask me, in sustained fights and gives me more options to chose from when it comes to tactics.
What i wrote may seem bs to you, but still it's the truth and has been stated by the mod too. Who bought the Keys got other options that did not involve real money, and bought the key only, not the enchant directly.
Plus, all you got, your character included, is property of cryptic. Not yours. Included the zen mounts you buy.
I really hope you guys make the CD decrease as the enchant is already worthless in PVE. I hope you consider the DPS of the enchant and buff that and it looks like the decrease in burst damage is coming via these changes for PVP issues.
I would warn that balancing the enchant is a very very good thing, if you ONLY do the proposed changes, this will break the enchant and <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> alot of people off...
Just saying.
Rank 5s aren't, but rank 8s are pretty close and pretty attainable. Not only that, each time you upgrade just one, it gives a measurable increase. I have faced a rogue decked with rank 10 darks in both 1v1 and team play, and it is not even remotely close to facing a rogue decked in Tenebrous.
Daria - Dwarf Sentinel GWF (mistaken for Halfling a lot)
Karia (aka "The Pug") - Human Combat HR
Kayd - Human Conqueror GF - Retired
I'm sorry, but this is facepalm worthy. Especially the mages with 0 crit, no ArP and tenes. It just shows that it's either tenes, or nothing. So very lame. This enchant basically kills diversity.
I'm so glad they're tweaking it.