It would be hard to believe that someone plays a Rogue, currently, after it was nerfed into the ground and say it still needs some "tweaking". Unless that "tweaking" is restoring Duelist's Flurry. It is already a pale shadow of what it once was, if this build goes live the class will be unplayable for the vast majority.
I meant in regards to what is currently live, which they are all referring to my supposed "whine" posts. I'm still interested in having you guys quote me my whine posts that are missing facts and containing half truths. As it stands on the PTS the proposed changes do need some tweaking also imo, the lurker's assault nerf is too harsh and the at wills diminishing stealth should be limited to cloud of steel.
This is the only longest thread with relevant info, that has not been closed or moved. I even politely mailed the devs to ask them to take a glance at this thread. If we keep it filled with proper suggestions, and valid complaints, it MIGHT get the attention needed. It's our LAST SHOT.
My apologies nukeyoo, for not answering your initial post. After abit of backtracking i realised you responded, but i missed it in all the posts.
OK. The reason why i am focusing on lashing blade from Stealth +LA. is because this is the MAIN gripe from all the ppl that were making crying threads. "wtf, i never even saw the tr and i got one shot death" It's not that i choose to ignore the other 8 seconds of L.A.
It's just REASONABLE, because,after using LB from stealth, u are REVEALED. And the opposing team has to be.....ummm special..to not touch you once revealed, you get CCED by ANY skill after revealed...there goes your L.A.
"HAHAHA Devlinne, u don't pop ITC right after u revealed to avoid this?" Sure i do. But i'm VISIBLE. If what u said is correct. U are insinuating that i can, stealth+LA+LB one shot someone, pop ITC, and continue to kill everyone else in the vicinity.....are they..."special"? Are they somehow just standing still allowing me to do all this? Or am I "SPECIAL", not using the itc timing to get the hell outta dodge after oneshotting someone?
That is why i suggested #2 on my suggestion. Somethings gotta give......I may not like it, but something HAS to be sacrificed to the crying masses. Rather than it being a skill which tr's use in PVE more than pvp.....Might as well modify a skill that caused the crying in the first place and not hurt the class so much in other aspects too.
Thats what this thread is all about. Trying to please BOTH sides without TOTALLY ruining the class.
We are talking about hypotheticals to which better players will react differently and the situation could feasibly end terribly for the TR. Yes, it happens. Players can dodge the initial LA LB. Yes it happens. Players can dodge away and kite your ranged dps. Yes it happens. If you're going to throw all these hypothetical situations of where the scenario I mentioned won't work out for the TR. Why don't you mention all the situations happening where the 1/2/3 shotting encounter/daily rotations of other classes that require cast times won't work out? With stun breaks, dodges, lag, etc..
And as far as after popping ITC after one shotting someone with LA+LB. By the end of ITC, lurker's assault should have regenerated your stealth to which allows for more safety for range dps or retreating to reset cool downs. I'm merely pointing out what is capable with the current live version of lurker's assault whether or not someone is "SPECIAL" for dying or not doing something to prevent this from happening doesn't change the fact that it happens. I have done it on a regular basis rolling over kids in pug matches.
The current live version of Lurker's Assault is a bit too powerful in my opinion, and apparently with all the cries from folks and looking over the numbers from data mining the dev's think it needs to be addressed. The current version on PTS is too harsh of a change though.
Agree or disagree. Everyone is welcome to their own opinion on the matter. The folks trying to insult or disavow someone just because they don't agree with them is pretty childish. But we're playing a game so children are to be expected.
I meant in regards to what is currently live, which they are all referring to my supposed "whine" posts. I'm still interested in having you guys quote me my whine posts that are missing facts and containing half truths. As it stands on the PTS the proposed changes do need some tweaking also imo, the lurker's assault nerf is too harsh and the at wills diminishing stealth should be limited to cloud of steel.
We are talking about hypotheticals to which better players will react differently and the situation could feasibly end terribly for the TR. Yes, it happens. Players can dodge the initial LA LB. Yes it happens. Players can dodge away and kite your ranged dps. Yes it happens. If you're going to throw all these hypothetical situations of where the scenario I mentioned won't work out for the TR. Why don't you mention all the situations happening where the 1/2/3 shotting encounter/daily rotations of other classes that require cast times won't work out? With stun breaks, dodges, lag, etc..
And as far as after popping ITC after one shotting someone with LA+LB. By the end of ITC, lurker's assault should have regenerated your stealth to which allows for more safety for range dps or retreating to reset cool downs. I'm merely pointing out what is capable with the current live version of lurker's assault whether or not someone is "SPECIAL" for dying or not doing something to prevent this from happening doesn't change the fact that it happens. I have done it on a regular basis rolling over kids in pug matches.
The current live version of Lurker's Assault is a bit too powerful in my opinion, and apparently with all the cries from folks and looking over the numbers from data mining the dev's think it needs to be addressed. The current version on PTS is too harsh of a change though.
Agree or disagree. Everyone is welcome to their own opinion on the matter. The folks trying to insult or disavow someone just because they don't agree with them is pretty childish. But we're playing a game so children are to be expected.
But with the current state of the test server, my GWF is beating my rogue in single target damage, despite my rogue has a 3k gearscore lead ahead of my gwf. From what i see with the bleed nerf+ stealth atwill nerf, I wont be bringing my TR to even test cn runs since red wizards will be aggroing you when ur under draco while u have 0 survivablity aside from ITC
Nevermore@meeggtoast 12.2 BiS TR Lanaya@meeggtoast 13.4 BiS GWF Shendelzare@meeggtoast 11.2k CN mule CW
But with the current state of the test server, my GWF is beating my rogue in single target damage, despite my rogue has a 3k gearscore lead ahead of my gwf. From what i see with the bleed nerf+ stealth atwill nerf, I wont be bringing my TR to even test cn runs since red wizards will be aggroing you when ur under draco while u have 0 survivablity aside from ITC
As it stands on the PTS the proposed changes do need some tweaking also imo, the lurker's assault nerf is too harsh and the at wills diminishing stealth should be limited to cloud of steel.
I'm not arguing that the severity of the nerfs are justified. Merely that certain aspects need to be looked at and perhaps toned down a bit. Not in the severity they're proposing though.
I'm not arguing that the severity of the nerfs are justified. Merely that certain aspects need to be looked at and perhaps toned down a bit. Not in the severity they're proposing though.
Exactly what we're doing in this thread bro.
We have suggested so many ways in which the 'toning down" can occur without totally devastating the class.
EDIT: Ok where the thread stands now.
Devs please consider.
1: Making bait and switch and/or Shadow strike not refill the WHOLE stealth meter, perhaps just 50% or whatever u see fit.
2: The only At will that should deplete stealth is CLOUD OF STEEL.
3: Either remove the 100% confirmed crit on Lashing blade from stealth, OR make Lurkers assault NOT refill stealth meter, OR reduce the MAX damage % on lurkers assault.
4: Please do not touch DUELIST FLURRY. It has already been nerfed once, this second nerf would seriously LOWER it's usefullness.
I do believe if u have read even SOME of this thread, u will see that even NON-TR classes are realizing how much of a class breaking game altering change this would be to the TR class if it goes through as is with your PROPOSED changes you are testing.
Please listen to the people actually testing it, ACTUALLY playing the class as their main, and have invested time and money lovingly into their character.
PITY,REGRET, AND MERCY are just EXCUSES for the strong not to kill the weak!
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avianbandorMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 24Arc User
We have suggested so many ways in which the 'toning down" can occur without totally devastating the class.
EDIT: Ok where the thread stands now.
Devs please consider.
1: Making bait and switch and/or Shadow strike not refill the WHOLE stealth meter, perhaps just 50% or whatever u see fit.
2: The only At will that should deplete stealth is CLOUD OF STEEL.
3: Either remove the 100% confirmed crit on Lashing blade from stealth, OR make Lurkers assault NOT refill stealth meter, OR reduce the MAX damage % on lurkers assault.
4: Please do not touch DUELIST FLURRY. It has already been nerfed once, this second nerf would seriously LOWER it's usefullness.
I do believe if u have read even SOME of this thread, u will see that even NON-TR classes are realizing how much of a class breaking game altering change this would be to the TR class if it goes through as is with your PROPOSED changes you are testing.
Please listen to the people actually testing it, ACTUALLY playing the class as their main, and have invested time and money lovingly into their character.
I think that's already more than what is needed, but yes...
+infinity, please please pleeeeease see reason!!!
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avianbandorMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 24Arc User
edited July 2013
Well there are a few allowed threads on the topic. This however is an idea I'm throwing out there for discussion. It hasn't been mentioned yet, and I havn't thought it through much, but please help/correct me (x3blade, devlinne and any others...) here if it can also contribute towards a solution...
The big problem seems to be Permastealth in PvP (or elsewhere for that matter) right?
Now it is being considered to nerf TR's to fix this. Sure, it's needed, but we currently are trying to find a way that keeps everyone(mostly) happy and doesn't destroy the TR like the current feeling is. (from TR's at least, but other starting to get concerned too)
TR's that permastealth use certain gear. I'm not 100% sure if they all NEED skulker's or scavenger's set bonus extra stealth meter, but why not
NERF THE PvP GEAR?
Maybe additionally the bait and switch. This way if you PvE you're fine. You don't need to wear PvP gear. You're unaffected. TR's need no fixing in PvE. And in PvP the stealth meter will to too short a duration for permastealth especially with bait and switch also nerfed.
Or, make PvP so that you may ONLY use PvP gear. And introduce more PvP gear, heck even at a Zen price! So then TR's are left alone in PvE weher they are fine. PvP can ONLY use PvP gear, and that gear doesn't permit permastealth. Plus the feared future changes are fine, cuz gear will be nerfed when PvP needs balancing. PvE folk will NEVER have to worry about being nerfed for PvP balancing.
Just a thought as to how permastealth and PvP can be fixed without breaking the TR in PvE - reataining 100% damage capability and utility and survivability (with PvE gear) in PvE.
(Would be nice if there was a dedicated PvP server, but there isn't. We need to work with what we have.)
I would add that depleting stealth at faster rate will affect survivability and make it harder soloing foundries and solo missions especially taking into account how developers likes to overtune everything.
You can always say that this is MMO and I should play with a group. Cool story but you can't always rely on everyone to get your daily done.
Due to certain individuals now "dance for joy" because of these nerfs I feel where these demands and pressure on developers came from. And, just maybe, developers really want dungeons to take much longer than atm.
So, guys, soon you will have a "Heroic Ragnaros" at the end of each epic dungeon. If you know what I mean.
Due to certain individuals now "dance for joy" because of these nerfs I feel where these demands and pressure on developers came from. And, just maybe, developers really want dungeons to take much longer than atm.
So, guys, soon you will have a "Heroic Ragnaros" at the end of each epic dungeon. If you know what I mean.
But I can run CN under 30 min with or without a rogue. so whats the difference?
Nevermore@meeggtoast 12.2 BiS TR Lanaya@meeggtoast 13.4 BiS GWF Shendelzare@meeggtoast 11.2k CN mule CW
cichardMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2013
TR's are the main striker in the group and currently the only one in game. Everyone else fills a different role. GFs tank, GWFs off tank/aoe dps, Cws CC AoE dps, DC heal, TR's single target dps. If they nerf TRs only role in the group what are groups suppose to do. Groups rely on TR's to dps the boss down while the rest of the group works on the only mechanic Cryptic has on boss fights adds... Lurkers assault is what TR's rely on in pve to boost their DPS. Since TR's are the only Single target focused dps class in the game we have nother else to balance it against. How can people be crying for balance in pve when each class has its own role to perform. Thats like compairing apples to oranges to pears... how can you balance TR single target damage with an AoE damage focused class....why even try.
If they want to balance anything they should bring each class closer to its class design not farther away and stop trying to compair different class roles, not all classes are created to be equal they are created to play a role. Stop thinking this is wow where the Talent specs create the role, instead look at it as its suppose to be in this game the Class is the role not the feats and powers.
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avianbandorMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 24Arc User
Thats what happens when people abuse/exploit a clearly non intended game mechanic. Rogues were obviously not meant to be able to perma-stealth, so the increasing popularity of such builds in both pvp/pve(xploit) was asking for the nerf bat.
The problem with nerf bats, in this or any other games, is that they always have side affects, and in this case, end-game pve rogues will suffer for this (not pvp rogues, because in fact there are many other viable pvp builds that dont rely on perma-stealth or even LA).
And I dont even consider PS rogues an OP spec to be honest. they dont have the dmg other rogues have, and they are a joke for my pvp GF. CoS it is OP, it was probably meant to prevent kiters or those plp that run away on low HP (GFW anyone?), not to be the main attack in stealth mode, so the new CoS seem good, but all the other changes are unnecesary.
According to recent history, major bugs/issues that come in test server patches, always end up being in the following retail server patch (empty npc's dialog box anyone?), so this will go live, and will require a later patch (1month+) to rebuff pve rogues/nerf pve bosses HP.
I don't think it's even a PvP thing, it's just that the most vocal whiners (both for and against something) will be the PvP crowd. Since when has Cryptic given a flying rodant buttocks about PvP? This is probably in response to bypassing PvE content via Stealth (like in Castle Never). They've already demonstrated the desire to close off ways to bypass things in dungeons.
+1 for most of this, im still for the seperate PvE and PvP effects though. Dont destroy the whole class completely if you want to nerf a single build pls devs :]
TR's are the main striker in the group and currently the only one in game. Everyone else fills a different role. GFs tank, GWFs off tank/aoe dps, Cws CC AoE dps, DC heal, TR's single target dps. If they nerf TRs only role in the group what are groups suppose to do.
Last time i logged into the game, GF's could effectively AOE dps, GFW could single target dps and tank, DC can dps (yes, they can!). Dont suffer, we will survive while they tune pve rogues up again a few weeks after this patch hits retail server. The day they nerf CW's, then they will kill the pve game, since it is all about managing adds
TR's are the main striker in the group and currently the only one in game. Everyone else fills a different role. GFs tank, GWFs off tank/aoe dps, Cws CC AoE dps, DC heal, TR's single target dps. If they nerf TRs only role in the group what are groups suppose to do. Groups rely on TR's to dps the boss down while the rest of the group works on the only mechanic Cryptic has on boss fights adds... Lurkers assault is what TR's rely on in pve to boost their DPS. Since TR's are the only Single target focused dps class in the game we have nother else to balance it against. How can people be crying for balance in pve when each class has its own role to perform. Thats like compairing apples to oranges to pears... how can you balance TR single target damage with an AoE damage focused class....why even try.
If they want to balance anything they should bring each class closer to its class design not farther away and stop trying to compair different class roles, not all classes are created to be equal they are created to play a role. Stop thinking this is wow where the Talent specs create the role, instead look at it as its suppose to be in this game the Class is the role not the feats and powers.
I think alot of people lost sight of this.
My main is a DC, my alt is a TR.How unhappy would i be, if i tried to match My TR's dps on my cleric?
Alot of the unhappiness and whine threads come from people who have lost sight of what their class is really supposed to do.
A tank wanting to be a dps, a dps wanting to be a tank, a healer wanting to be a controller, a controller wanting to be a dpser, it goes on and on.
I hope the devs themselves have not lost sight of what the classes they created are supposed to do.
This nerf to the TR is too much. Way too much. There are so many better ways to do this. Please take it back to the drawing board. Don't upset your playerbase.
This is probably in response to bypassing PvE content via Stealth (like in Castle Never). They've already demonstrated the desire to close off ways to bypass things in dungeons.
I think so, thats why I mentioned pve(xploit) in my previous post. The day the pve game is played again the way it is supposed to be played, then I will be back to do some T2's/CN. Meanwhile Im having a blast leveling alts in pvp (with no tenebrous!)/foundry.
@whiners: now that you got PS down, please start whining at tenebrous enchantments, that is really OP, and not PS builds. (and I play a pvp GF with teneb's)
I don't think it's even a PvP thing, it's just that the most vocal whiners (both for and against something) will be the PvP crowd. Since when has Cryptic given a flying rodant buttocks about PvP? This is probably in response to bypassing PvE content via Stealth (like in Castle Never). They've already demonstrated the desire to close off ways to bypass things in dungeons.
I think so, thats why I mentioned pve(xploit) in my previous post. The day the pve game is played again the way it is supposed to be played, then I will be back to do some T2's/CN. Meanwhile Im having a blast leveling alts in pvp (with no tenebrous!)/foundry.
@whiners: now that you got PS down, please start whining at tenebrous enchantments, that is really OP, and not PS builds. (and I play a pvp GF with teneb's)
Have you guys even read this thread? Permastealth is still achievable after this patch hits. They didn't nerf anything that gives permastealth Rogues the ability to be in stealth indefinitely.
Permastealth was never an exploit. It was a clever build that got abused by pansy Rogues who couldn't cut it using the better, high burst damage builds PvP Rogues were using. It was a cheesy spec designed to capture and hold point, while killing bad players in bad gear who didn't know how to easily counter it. Some Rogues did eventually use it for PvE, but you never had to use permastealth to bypass adds in PvE. There were already tons of shortcuts, exploits, and other ways to bypass PvE content.
Again, Cryptic did nothing to curtail permastealthers. That's what this whole thread was about in the first place.
My main is a DC, my alt is a TR.How unhappy would i be, if i tried to match My TR's dps on my cleric?
Alot of the unhappiness and whine threads come from people who have lost sight of what their class is really supposed to do.
A tank wanting to be a dps, a dps wanting to be a tank, a healer wanting to be a controller, a controller wanting to be a dpser, it goes on and on.
I hope the devs themselves have not lost sight of what the classes they created are supposed to do.
This nerf to the TR is too much. Way too much. There are so many better ways to do this. Please take it back to the drawing board. Don't upset your playerbase.
Nobody lost sight of what Rogues are supposed to be, except maybe the foolish dev(s) that came up with these nerf ideas. Everyone knew and still knows TRs are supposed to be the best single damage class in the game. What all the crybabies wanted was Rogues to stop being what they were designed to be, and get nerfed to the ground so that their class can be picked over Rogues in PvE and their class won't die nearly as much in PvP. They wanted Rogues to be destroyed by the devs so that they can faceroll in PvP even more than they already do.
Whatever dev(s) that came up with these nerfs is the real problem here. It was a bad decision to listen to the PvP whiners in the first place. It's an even worse decision to listen to them, then come up with these horrendous nerfs that will completely destroy the class in PvE and cripple Rogues in PvP, leaving the truly overpowered classes (GWFs and GFs) even more overpowered and unkillable than before.
I don't think they'll listen to reason, the babies cry louder than us. But I sure hope we get a free respec token as most of us will need 1 now. I refuse to pay for another.
I don't think they'll listen to reason, the babies cry louder than us. But I sure hope we get a free respec token as most of us will need 1 now. I refuse to pay for another.
I already asked for one on general discussion but it seems to be ignored/not seen.
However, even with the current nerfs, there are some builds that can still make people cry on forums and still keep you in the TOP DPS charts.
I don't think they'll listen to reason, the babies cry louder than us. But I sure hope we get a free respec token as most of us will need 1 now. I refuse to pay for another.
Well, the criers were crying for a loooong time before this came about. I and i suppose many of us, didn't give it a second thought...But in the light of these proposed changes. Alot of the knowledgeable folk are coming out to give some very good ideas.
This proposed nerf came about with almost no countering info. Now that info is present. lets hope this changes things.
Esteena. If u disagree with my #2 suggestion. Please suggest something in it's stead. I'm not challenging you or being sarcastic. Truly if there is a better idea. Put it forward.
PITY,REGRET, AND MERCY are just EXCUSES for the strong not to kill the weak!
However, even with the current nerfs, there are some builds that can still make people cry on forums and still keep you in the TOP DPS charts.
Only if the Rogue is geared out and with a group of bad players in bad gear using bad specs. With a good group of competent players, Rogues' DPS is going to be dead last, only beating a non-DPS healing Cleric. I guarantee you can't show me a spec that will still be able to compete with other classes in the DPS charts after this patch hits live servers.
Only if the Rogue is geared out and with a group of bad players in bad gear using bad specs. With a good group of competent players, Rogues' DPS is going to be dead last, only beating a non-DPS healing Cleric. I guarantee you can't show me a spec that will still be able to compete with other classes in the DPS charts after this patch hits live servers.
Cool story bro.
PS. I already said im not going to show that spec. I prefer to be selfish and advance on my own
PS. I already said im not going to show that spec. I prefer to be selfish and advance on my own
Cool overused internet meme bro.
P.S. You don't have a spec. Stop lying and pretending like you're some Rogue guru who knows some secret uber spec that doesn't rely on Duelist's Flurry, stealth, and Lurker's Assault to do high DPS in PvE.
Comments
I meant in regards to what is currently live, which they are all referring to my supposed "whine" posts. I'm still interested in having you guys quote me my whine posts that are missing facts and containing half truths. As it stands on the PTS the proposed changes do need some tweaking also imo, the lurker's assault nerf is too harsh and the at wills diminishing stealth should be limited to cloud of steel.
We are talking about hypotheticals to which better players will react differently and the situation could feasibly end terribly for the TR. Yes, it happens. Players can dodge the initial LA LB. Yes it happens. Players can dodge away and kite your ranged dps. Yes it happens. If you're going to throw all these hypothetical situations of where the scenario I mentioned won't work out for the TR. Why don't you mention all the situations happening where the 1/2/3 shotting encounter/daily rotations of other classes that require cast times won't work out? With stun breaks, dodges, lag, etc..
And as far as after popping ITC after one shotting someone with LA+LB. By the end of ITC, lurker's assault should have regenerated your stealth to which allows for more safety for range dps or retreating to reset cool downs. I'm merely pointing out what is capable with the current live version of lurker's assault whether or not someone is "SPECIAL" for dying or not doing something to prevent this from happening doesn't change the fact that it happens. I have done it on a regular basis rolling over kids in pug matches.
The current live version of Lurker's Assault is a bit too powerful in my opinion, and apparently with all the cries from folks and looking over the numbers from data mining the dev's think it needs to be addressed. The current version on PTS is too harsh of a change though.
Agree or disagree. Everyone is welcome to their own opinion on the matter. The folks trying to insult or disavow someone just because they don't agree with them is pretty childish. But we're playing a game so children are to be expected.
But with the current state of the test server, my GWF is beating my rogue in single target damage, despite my rogue has a 3k gearscore lead ahead of my gwf. From what i see with the bleed nerf+ stealth atwill nerf, I wont be bringing my TR to even test cn runs since red wizards will be aggroing you when ur under draco while u have 0 survivablity aside from ITC
Lanaya@meeggtoast 13.4 BiS GWF
Shendelzare@meeggtoast 11.2k CN mule CW
Server: Dragon
Stream: meeggtoast
Guide: Meeggtoast's Destroyer Dps Guide
I'm not arguing that the severity of the nerfs are justified. Merely that certain aspects need to be looked at and perhaps toned down a bit. Not in the severity they're proposing though.
Exactly what we're doing in this thread bro.
We have suggested so many ways in which the 'toning down" can occur without totally devastating the class.
EDIT: Ok where the thread stands now.
Devs please consider.
1: Making bait and switch and/or Shadow strike not refill the WHOLE stealth meter, perhaps just 50% or whatever u see fit.
2: The only At will that should deplete stealth is CLOUD OF STEEL.
3: Either remove the 100% confirmed crit on Lashing blade from stealth, OR make Lurkers assault NOT refill stealth meter, OR reduce the MAX damage % on lurkers assault.
4: Please do not touch DUELIST FLURRY. It has already been nerfed once, this second nerf would seriously LOWER it's usefullness.
I do believe if u have read even SOME of this thread, u will see that even NON-TR classes are realizing how much of a class breaking game altering change this would be to the TR class if it goes through as is with your PROPOSED changes you are testing.
Please listen to the people actually testing it, ACTUALLY playing the class as their main, and have invested time and money lovingly into their character.
I think that's already more than what is needed, but yes...
+infinity, please please pleeeeease see reason!!!
The big problem seems to be Permastealth in PvP (or elsewhere for that matter) right?
Now it is being considered to nerf TR's to fix this. Sure, it's needed, but we currently are trying to find a way that keeps everyone(mostly) happy and doesn't destroy the TR like the current feeling is. (from TR's at least, but other starting to get concerned too)
TR's that permastealth use certain gear. I'm not 100% sure if they all NEED skulker's or scavenger's set bonus extra stealth meter, but why not
NERF THE PvP GEAR?
Maybe additionally the bait and switch. This way if you PvE you're fine. You don't need to wear PvP gear. You're unaffected. TR's need no fixing in PvE. And in PvP the stealth meter will to too short a duration for permastealth especially with bait and switch also nerfed.
Or, make PvP so that you may ONLY use PvP gear. And introduce more PvP gear, heck even at a Zen price! So then TR's are left alone in PvE weher they are fine. PvP can ONLY use PvP gear, and that gear doesn't permit permastealth. Plus the feared future changes are fine, cuz gear will be nerfed when PvP needs balancing. PvE folk will NEVER have to worry about being nerfed for PvP balancing.
Just a thought as to how permastealth and PvP can be fixed without breaking the TR in PvE - reataining 100% damage capability and utility and survivability (with PvE gear) in PvE.
(Would be nice if there was a dedicated PvP server, but there isn't. We need to work with what we have.)
You can always say that this is MMO and I should play with a group. Cool story but you can't always rely on everyone to get your daily done.
So, guys, soon you will have a "Heroic Ragnaros" at the end of each epic dungeon. If you know what I mean.
But I can run CN under 30 min with or without a rogue. so whats the difference?
Lanaya@meeggtoast 13.4 BiS GWF
Shendelzare@meeggtoast 11.2k CN mule CW
Server: Dragon
Stream: meeggtoast
Guide: Meeggtoast's Destroyer Dps Guide
If they want to balance anything they should bring each class closer to its class design not farther away and stop trying to compair different class roles, not all classes are created to be equal they are created to play a role. Stop thinking this is wow where the Talent specs create the role, instead look at it as its suppose to be in this game the Class is the role not the feats and powers.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?419161-Alrenative-to-TR-nerf-not-yet-explored-See-inside
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?419161-Alrenative-to-TR-nerf-not-yet-explored-See-inside
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?419161-Alrenative-to-TR-nerf-not-yet-explored-See-inside
The problem with nerf bats, in this or any other games, is that they always have side affects, and in this case, end-game pve rogues will suffer for this (not pvp rogues, because in fact there are many other viable pvp builds that dont rely on perma-stealth or even LA).
And I dont even consider PS rogues an OP spec to be honest. they dont have the dmg other rogues have, and they are a joke for my pvp GF. CoS it is OP, it was probably meant to prevent kiters or those plp that run away on low HP (GFW anyone?), not to be the main attack in stealth mode, so the new CoS seem good, but all the other changes are unnecesary.
According to recent history, major bugs/issues that come in test server patches, always end up being in the following retail server patch (empty npc's dialog box anyone?), so this will go live, and will require a later patch (1month+) to rebuff pve rogues/nerf pve bosses HP.
Last time i logged into the game, GF's could effectively AOE dps, GFW could single target dps and tank, DC can dps (yes, they can!). Dont suffer, we will survive while they tune pve rogues up again a few weeks after this patch hits retail server. The day they nerf CW's, then they will kill the pve game, since it is all about managing adds
I think alot of people lost sight of this.
My main is a DC, my alt is a TR.How unhappy would i be, if i tried to match My TR's dps on my cleric?
Alot of the unhappiness and whine threads come from people who have lost sight of what their class is really supposed to do.
A tank wanting to be a dps, a dps wanting to be a tank, a healer wanting to be a controller, a controller wanting to be a dpser, it goes on and on.
I hope the devs themselves have not lost sight of what the classes they created are supposed to do.
This nerf to the TR is too much. Way too much. There are so many better ways to do this. Please take it back to the drawing board. Don't upset your playerbase.
I think so, thats why I mentioned pve(xploit) in my previous post. The day the pve game is played again the way it is supposed to be played, then I will be back to do some T2's/CN. Meanwhile Im having a blast leveling alts in pvp (with no tenebrous!)/foundry.
@whiners: now that you got PS down, please start whining at tenebrous enchantments, that is really OP, and not PS builds. (and I play a pvp GF with teneb's)
Have you guys even read this thread? Permastealth is still achievable after this patch hits. They didn't nerf anything that gives permastealth Rogues the ability to be in stealth indefinitely.
Permastealth was never an exploit. It was a clever build that got abused by pansy Rogues who couldn't cut it using the better, high burst damage builds PvP Rogues were using. It was a cheesy spec designed to capture and hold point, while killing bad players in bad gear who didn't know how to easily counter it. Some Rogues did eventually use it for PvE, but you never had to use permastealth to bypass adds in PvE. There were already tons of shortcuts, exploits, and other ways to bypass PvE content.
Again, Cryptic did nothing to curtail permastealthers. That's what this whole thread was about in the first place.
Nobody lost sight of what Rogues are supposed to be, except maybe the foolish dev(s) that came up with these nerf ideas. Everyone knew and still knows TRs are supposed to be the best single damage class in the game. What all the crybabies wanted was Rogues to stop being what they were designed to be, and get nerfed to the ground so that their class can be picked over Rogues in PvE and their class won't die nearly as much in PvP. They wanted Rogues to be destroyed by the devs so that they can faceroll in PvP even more than they already do.
Whatever dev(s) that came up with these nerfs is the real problem here. It was a bad decision to listen to the PvP whiners in the first place. It's an even worse decision to listen to them, then come up with these horrendous nerfs that will completely destroy the class in PvE and cripple Rogues in PvP, leaving the truly overpowered classes (GWFs and GFs) even more overpowered and unkillable than before.
Nope.
Couldn't agree more.
I already asked for one on general discussion but it seems to be ignored/not seen.
However, even with the current nerfs, there are some builds that can still make people cry on forums and still keep you in the TOP DPS charts.
Well, the criers were crying for a loooong time before this came about. I and i suppose many of us, didn't give it a second thought...But in the light of these proposed changes. Alot of the knowledgeable folk are coming out to give some very good ideas.
This proposed nerf came about with almost no countering info. Now that info is present. lets hope this changes things.
Esteena. If u disagree with my #2 suggestion. Please suggest something in it's stead. I'm not challenging you or being sarcastic. Truly if there is a better idea. Put it forward.
Only if the Rogue is geared out and with a group of bad players in bad gear using bad specs. With a good group of competent players, Rogues' DPS is going to be dead last, only beating a non-DPS healing Cleric. I guarantee you can't show me a spec that will still be able to compete with other classes in the DPS charts after this patch hits live servers.
However in my opinion for it to work. the following must be present.
1) Absolutely no ability to switch gear at anytime during or before start, of pvp once qued.
2) The pvp gear must be always obtainable via the present means like GG and pvp glory set.
The only problem i see with this is. it will put abit of a strain on ppl who like both aspects pve and pvp. cos u need to ENCHANT both sets.
Cool story bro.
PS. I already said im not going to show that spec. I prefer to be selfish and advance on my own
Cool overused internet meme bro.
P.S. You don't have a spec. Stop lying and pretending like you're some Rogue guru who knows some secret uber spec that doesn't rely on Duelist's Flurry, stealth, and Lurker's Assault to do high DPS in PvE.