Most people in this thread after the patch that like both this idea and BOP are going hate them . Know why the game going be flooded with troll who well buy all the same item and wait a week and put them on for higher prices . Or they just /and destroy any epic item they get that they don't need(when you hit green when could hit need). You can count on it oh and Cryptic and PWE won't do a **** thing about it.
Most people in this thread after the patch that like both this idea and BOP are going hate them . Know why the game going be flooded with troll who well buy all the same item and wait a week and put them on for higher prices . Or they just /and destroy any epic item they get that they don't need(when you hit green when could hit need). You can count on it oh and Cryptic and PWE won't do a **** thing about it.
none of your threads make any sense, please stop posting.
I, too, am confused by the QQ.
When I'm in a full party, I pass on anything not my class.
I greed on any green my class.
I need on any blue my class. (I haven't seen any purples, yet).
If there happens to be another player my class in the group - we should be winning needs about 50/50.
Which means there should be no guilt about selling the items or storing them in the guild bank, if I'm not going to equip them.
Of course, I mostly group with guildies, so it doesn't really matter much anyway. Blues and purples I don't use will usually end up in the guild bank.
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asashiroMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
Good lord, the number of dense, possibly illiterate, unable to comprehend hypothetical situations, !@#$ stupid people in this thread is staggering.
I've not seen a single argument against need being class restricted, it should be. But that by itself doesn't and won't fix the problem. I'm really not sure how some people aren't realizing that.
I, too, am confused by the QQ.
When I'm in a full party, I pass on anything not my class.
I greed on any green my class.
I need on any blue my class. (I haven't seen any purples, yet).
And that fine the problem is,few if not most in this thread trying tell me how to play the game and say to greed on my own class stuff just for fact I might have it on my all ready when I don't have to .
Good lord, the number of dense, possibly illiterate, unable to comprehend hypothetical situations, !@#$ stupid people in this thread is staggering.
I've not seen a single argument against need being class restricted, it should be. But that by itself doesn't and won't fix the problem. I'm really not sure how some people aren't realizing that.
I'm not sure how you are arriving at that conclusion. I see no one in this thread claiming that this change will completely "fix" every perceived problem. On the contrary, if this thread proves anything at all, it would be that it is profoundly understood that there is not a solution that will be ultimately satisfactory to everyone. As you yourself allude, this change is simply the lesser of many evils.
P.S - BTW, there are many posters in this thread arguing against need being class restricted. Not sure how you can post that statement with a straight face lol
Op you are ridiculous... this patch will finally delete so many ninja needers, and you are thinking about AD ? Omg, you are a kiddo that think only about himself. Grow up
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asashiroMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
P.S - BTW, there are many posters in this thread arguing against need being class restricted. Not sure how you can post that statement with a straight face lol
Sorry. Haven't seen many* is what I meant to say, at least in comparison to the other. May have missed a couple pages, but some of the responses are painfully terrible.
Solution: Just do it like Rift does it - the game assesses not just class but stats. If the item is clearly not an upgrade for you as far as the system is concerned, "Need" is disabled, no matter what. "Need" ONLY appears if you can actually BENEFIT from the item.
This is a VERY easy system to implement, and if enough people calmly and rationally request it, it will come here as well, I hope.
In the meantime, I am still happy they disabled Need on non class items. It's not perfect, but it is a start and hopefully at least quells those who literally Need on every drop in a dungeon. I still need to do endgame content in neverwinter. I have been so busy leveling all of my characters I have not started raiding yet. However I do know if my Guild ever does a raid, we would just use common sense and do the "Master Looter" method, where a dedicated looter loots everything, then at the end of the event we have a roll session. People cannot roll if the looter inspects you and it is determined by that looter that your gear is not up to par with what is being rolled on.
I think my biggest issue with the loot system is unidentified items. I absolutely hate trying to decide if I should roll on an item for my class wondering if it is even an upgrade or not. I think that is where a lot of the "needs" come in Neverwinter . . . people see their class item and no stats, so they "Need" just to get it and at LEAST inspect it, and then feel like a fool when it is some item they could not have even used . . . yet the other guy that competed with you for it - it could have been an honest real upgrade for him that he did not get because of the mystery doubt. So many other MMOs slide by without the need for mystery "unidentified" items. I think Neverwinter could too, if they wished it.
No ninja it just a matter of change and need give you a better change at getting the item.Now with the new system it going be 100% change I'll get all my class item+ 1/5 of any green/blue items that not of my class(oh the one or two epic non-class item).
No ninja it just a matter of change and need give you a better change at getting the item.Now with the new system it going be 100% change I'll get all my class item+ 1/5 of any green/blue items that not of my class(oh the one or two epic non-class item).
Spoken like a true ninja, needing every piece of gear for his class regardless of whether it's an upgrade or not.
Here is why I hate the loot changes.
Here is an example of why this blows and is a stupid idea.
Ancient weapon drop values from Castle Never:
DC drop value 3 million AD
CW drop value 2.5 million AD
GWF drop value 1.25 million AD
GF drop value .5 million AD
TR drop 2.75 million AD
So thanks a lot devs.....as a GF...
The AD exchange is player run, not dev run, so those prices are determined by the players, again, not by the devs. The REASON for GF items being so cheap is because GF are essentially pointless to play until they get fixed.
There was a similar issue with lower sets on Beholder (High Vizier) so I bought all the ones significantly under average price and re-listed them at like 10x previous price about 2 weeks ago, made a killing and sold them all within a day or two.
Supply and demand is just as easily exploited as highly played classes wanting broken set bonuses (like shadow-weaver) etc.
everyone deserved a fair chance to get valuable items . because we all NEED items either for selling or equipping
the best thing to do is all party members greed on any items in CN (or all party members need on its the same) this gives everyone a fair chance top get the loot
Technically you want them for monetary gain which is greed, the people needing everything ruined it for everyone. One <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> in the punch bowl etc.
I've read this from several posters in this thread and I just don't get the mentality. The main issue that I have with ninja looters, is their selfish disrespect and inconsideration for their group mates when they "need" on an item one of their group mates can clearly use. Why do you care who wins an item you can not use? The issue is in the disrespect, discourtesy and lack of consideration exhibited when you "need" on an item you can not use, yet are acutely aware that you are depriving a fellow player, and group member, from having that item simply because you want to sell it.
To simply ninja "need" loot an item you can not use, while all the while harboring no guilt what so ever over the fact that you just deprived another player that can use the item, is mind boggling to me. Are you totally bereft of even an ounce of sportsmanship, courtesy or respect for you fellow players that you can not see the issue at hand here?
I don't know. Maybe it's me. Maybe I am just cut from a different mold.
I'm not entirely sure if you actually read my post, or just misunderstood it. I neither said, nor think, that class-only "need" rolls are a bad idea. It's better than we have now. But that alone doesn't then stop someone of that class from ninjaing an item they don't need so they can then go on and sell it.
The price differences do technically benefit some classes over others with this system, but it's really besides the point. Once a few people take advantage (in PuGs, I assume organised groups will sort their own rules out) then it will snowball as people realise the only way to get any loot is to roll "need" on their class items. At least if everyone rolls "greed" on an item no one needs you have a fair chance of getting something, rather than relying on an item for your class to drop. Unfortunately, human nature being what it is, the only way to do this is to take away the easy ninja option, especially with a random queue system. Hence - "need" rolls automatically bind the item to the character.
What makes you think anyone here wouldn't? I think it would be a mistake to assume that someone is not a kind and charitable person because he or she is arguing they haven't the moral right to force others to adhere to their own personal idea of charity in every instance. The other side is, and I find it quite ironic they don't see for themselves what sort of people that makes them.
Arguing morality about issues in a fake world. Priceless *grabs popcorn*
This obviously is your First MMO and i can't believe the whiner ****in ninjas are still crying about this. Get over it, EVERY other MMO out there is either personal loot system, or Class restricted NBG. Stop acting like this is some revolutionary thing that no one has ever done before and will destroy your playstyle or something. Which if you're one of those ******s that rolls need on every single thing that comes up for rolling, it will, but those people get put on my ignore list anyway, The self entitlement of some players is astounding. Too many people playing this game are playing their first MMO and have no idea what they are talking about.
Mouse over the fckin item before you roll on it. HEY LUK STATZ! ignorance and still thinking you have an opinion worth contributing, HILARIOUS
I wonder if this post could contain more cursing, insults, ironic misspelling, and general childishness. Doubt it.
Also, you're a liar. You can't "mouse over the fckin item" when it's unidentified. Face it, the idea doesn't work in a game where you can't see the stats of an item.
A rich rogue nowadays is fit company for any gentleman; and the world, my dear, hath not such a contempt for roguery as you imagine. - John HAMSTER
Here is why I hate the loot changes.
Here is an example of why this blows and is a stupid idea.
Ancient weapon drop values from Castle Never:
DC drop value 3 million AD
CW drop value 2.5 million AD
GWF drop value 1.25 million AD
GF drop value .5 million AD
TR drop 2.75 million AD
So thanks a lot devs.....as a GF I now have no chance at a valuable item while rogues, clerics, and wizards get their valuable stuff with no competition. What a slap in the face.
We have an auction hall for a reason. This new system will just keep the already under utilized fighters even more broke. Now the clerics can GUARANTEE a 3 million AD item and I don't even get a shot at it. They don't need these items.....they just sell them on the auction hall just like I do.
I make a habit of inspecting my teammates gear in dungeons and 99% of the time they already have better gear equipped then what they are 'needing'.
What it's really about is the astral diamonds....and i'm pretty sure EVERYONE needs those.
QQ'ing about your items not selling for more??? group with guild mates that understand need before greed and honor problem solved..
And the argument rages on... Some posters whine, others rage, a few just LOL. But no one ever changes their minds. The circle of Forum-Life is complete.
Greying out the Need button solves the *one* problem it was obviously meant to fix. It allows players trying to gear up without the AH to have a better chance to do so.
Didn't see anything official saying it was suppose to stop people from Needing things to sell on the AH. And they just don't want to do that anyway. The game runs on AD/Zen. And stopping players from selling items worth $5-$10 of Zen would be bad for the game itself. The fix just limits who can do it with what items. And that is a trade off for keeping items flowing through the AH and keeping the 'find your own gear playstyle' at the same time. Could it have been done another way? Maybe. But i'm sure this was the simplest/easiest option with the least overall game wide side affects.
Here is why I hate the loot changes.
Here is an example of why this blows and is a stupid idea.
Ancient weapon drop values from Castle Never:
DC drop value 3 million AD
CW drop value 2.5 million AD
GWF drop value 1.25 million AD
GF drop value .5 million AD
TR drop 2.75 million AD
So thanks a lot devs.....as a GF I now have no chance at a valuable item while rogues, clerics, and wizards get their valuable stuff with no competition. What a slap in the face.
We have an auction hall for a reason. This new system will just keep the already under utilized fighters even more broke. Now the clerics can GUARANTEE a 3 million AD item and I don't even get a shot at it. They don't need these items.....they just sell them on the auction hall just like I do.
I make a habit of inspecting my teammates gear in dungeons and 99% of the time they already have better gear equipped then what they are 'needing'.
What it's really about is the astral diamonds....and i'm pretty sure EVERYONE needs those.
Thing is those items aren't actually worth that, that's just what some insanely ad rich people might be willing to pay for them. I know for one even if I had that many diamonds, which I don't, I certainly wouldn't spend 3 million on a single piece of gear no matter if it was bis or not.
Solution:Set dungeon reward metrics.
On boss loot, read player gs and item slots. Player may need if:
GS is below metric.
and
Item is for his/her class.
and
Currently slotted item has a lower gs than dropped item (e.g. likely to actually equip).
If all members have gs meeting or exceeding intended metric and/or all players who can roll need chose to pass:
Assume farming and standard greed auto-roll.
Since there are so many inherently greedy, entitled f-king children, with zero sense of fair play...
Solution:Set dungeon reward metrics.
On boss loot, read player gs and item slots. Player may need if:
GS is below metric.
and
Item is for his/her class.
and
Currently slotted item has a lower gs than dropped item (e.g. likely to actually equip).
If all members have gs meeting or exceeding intended metric and/or all players who can roll need chose to pass:
Assume farming and standard greed auto-roll.
There.
Would suffer the same problem. Better in some ways, worse in others. Certainly a more complex fix.
Why its complex: GS is flawed because it doesn't seem to weight stats based on how much your class needs the stat. Because of this someone could have a higher GS item, but the dropped one might be better for them. Then you have set bonuses too. What if the dropped item was a lower GS, but the character already has a piece equipped? The 2pc set bonus from the dropped item would likely boost their GS even more than keeping the higher base GS item.
Again, I've not seen anything that points out this was a fix to people needing stuff to sell at the AH. Some people just hate the idea of using the AH. So IMO they just wanted the people trying to gear up on their own to be able to do that. As long as the amount of each classes drops is balanced, its still a fair system. Its players who determine the AH prices (that the OP complained about), not the developers.
Comments
I can't agree more with this.
Op says fighters gonna get freaked up. And i'm still happy for the changes as a fighter... Weird huh?
I can still move.
I can still fight.
I will never give up!
none of your threads make any sense, please stop posting.
I can still move.
I can still fight.
I will never give up!
When I'm in a full party, I pass on anything not my class.
I greed on any green my class.
I need on any blue my class. (I haven't seen any purples, yet).
If there happens to be another player my class in the group - we should be winning needs about 50/50.
Which means there should be no guilt about selling the items or storing them in the guild bank, if I'm not going to equip them.
Of course, I mostly group with guildies, so it doesn't really matter much anyway. Blues and purples I don't use will usually end up in the guild bank.
I've not seen a single argument against need being class restricted, it should be. But that by itself doesn't and won't fix the problem. I'm really not sure how some people aren't realizing that.
I can still move.
I can still fight.
I will never give up!
I'm not sure how you are arriving at that conclusion. I see no one in this thread claiming that this change will completely "fix" every perceived problem. On the contrary, if this thread proves anything at all, it would be that it is profoundly understood that there is not a solution that will be ultimately satisfactory to everyone. As you yourself allude, this change is simply the lesser of many evils.
P.S - BTW, there are many posters in this thread arguing against need being class restricted. Not sure how you can post that statement with a straight face lol
Sorry. Haven't seen many* is what I meant to say, at least in comparison to the other. May have missed a couple pages, but some of the responses are painfully terrible.
This is a VERY easy system to implement, and if enough people calmly and rationally request it, it will come here as well, I hope.
In the meantime, I am still happy they disabled Need on non class items. It's not perfect, but it is a start and hopefully at least quells those who literally Need on every drop in a dungeon. I still need to do endgame content in neverwinter. I have been so busy leveling all of my characters I have not started raiding yet. However I do know if my Guild ever does a raid, we would just use common sense and do the "Master Looter" method, where a dedicated looter loots everything, then at the end of the event we have a roll session. People cannot roll if the looter inspects you and it is determined by that looter that your gear is not up to par with what is being rolled on.
I think my biggest issue with the loot system is unidentified items. I absolutely hate trying to decide if I should roll on an item for my class wondering if it is even an upgrade or not. I think that is where a lot of the "needs" come in Neverwinter . . . people see their class item and no stats, so they "Need" just to get it and at LEAST inspect it, and then feel like a fool when it is some item they could not have even used . . . yet the other guy that competed with you for it - it could have been an honest real upgrade for him that he did not get because of the mystery doubt. So many other MMOs slide by without the need for mystery "unidentified" items. I think Neverwinter could too, if they wished it.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I can still move.
I can still fight.
I will never give up!
Spoken like a true ninja, needing every piece of gear for his class regardless of whether it's an upgrade or not.
I can still move.
I can still fight.
I will never give up!
So deal with it :cool:
I want this class in NW.
The AD exchange is player run, not dev run, so those prices are determined by the players, again, not by the devs. The REASON for GF items being so cheap is because GF are essentially pointless to play until they get fixed.
Supply and demand is just as easily exploited as highly played classes wanting broken set bonuses (like shadow-weaver) etc.
the best thing to do is all party members greed on any items in CN (or all party members need on its the same) this gives everyone a fair chance top get the loot
I'm not entirely sure if you actually read my post, or just misunderstood it. I neither said, nor think, that class-only "need" rolls are a bad idea. It's better than we have now. But that alone doesn't then stop someone of that class from ninjaing an item they don't need so they can then go on and sell it.
The price differences do technically benefit some classes over others with this system, but it's really besides the point. Once a few people take advantage (in PuGs, I assume organised groups will sort their own rules out) then it will snowball as people realise the only way to get any loot is to roll "need" on their class items. At least if everyone rolls "greed" on an item no one needs you have a fair chance of getting something, rather than relying on an item for your class to drop. Unfortunately, human nature being what it is, the only way to do this is to take away the easy ninja option, especially with a random queue system. Hence - "need" rolls automatically bind the item to the character.
Arguing morality about issues in a fake world. Priceless *grabs popcorn*
I wonder if this post could contain more cursing, insults, ironic misspelling, and general childishness. Doubt it.
Also, you're a liar. You can't "mouse over the fckin item" when it's unidentified. Face it, the idea doesn't work in a game where you can't see the stats of an item.
QQ'ing about your items not selling for more??? group with guild mates that understand need before greed and honor problem solved..
Greying out the Need button solves the *one* problem it was obviously meant to fix. It allows players trying to gear up without the AH to have a better chance to do so.
Didn't see anything official saying it was suppose to stop people from Needing things to sell on the AH. And they just don't want to do that anyway. The game runs on AD/Zen. And stopping players from selling items worth $5-$10 of Zen would be bad for the game itself. The fix just limits who can do it with what items. And that is a trade off for keeping items flowing through the AH and keeping the 'find your own gear playstyle' at the same time. Could it have been done another way? Maybe. But i'm sure this was the simplest/easiest option with the least overall game wide side affects.
Thing is those items aren't actually worth that, that's just what some insanely ad rich people might be willing to pay for them. I know for one even if I had that many diamonds, which I don't, I certainly wouldn't spend 3 million on a single piece of gear no matter if it was bis or not.
I want this class in NW.
Solution:Set dungeon reward metrics.
On boss loot, read player gs and item slots. Player may need if:
GS is below metric.
and
Item is for his/her class.
and
Currently slotted item has a lower gs than dropped item (e.g. likely to actually equip).
If all members have gs meeting or exceeding intended metric and/or all players who can roll need chose to pass:
Assume farming and standard greed auto-roll.
There.
Would suffer the same problem. Better in some ways, worse in others. Certainly a more complex fix.
Why its complex: GS is flawed because it doesn't seem to weight stats based on how much your class needs the stat. Because of this someone could have a higher GS item, but the dropped one might be better for them. Then you have set bonuses too. What if the dropped item was a lower GS, but the character already has a piece equipped? The 2pc set bonus from the dropped item would likely boost their GS even more than keeping the higher base GS item.
Again, I've not seen anything that points out this was a fix to people needing stuff to sell at the AH. Some people just hate the idea of using the AH. So IMO they just wanted the people trying to gear up on their own to be able to do that. As long as the amount of each classes drops is balanced, its still a fair system. Its players who determine the AH prices (that the OP complained about), not the developers.