i think we would wait till the changes are in place to be able to test them i will stick to the guide i think i will be near 60 by June 20 will not buy T2 equip or T1 just after testing cause i think is better or maybe some cheap good t2 equip but not enchant it with runes of high lv until test is done, hate to be full tanker love hybrid Tank-DPS i think is a good option for soloing dungeons with any queued party or some fun pvp if you know how to use your char
Everything works out in the end . If it hasn't worked out yet, it isn't the end...
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elanithMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
I think the spec will still be viable, they increased our threat gen by 35%, fixed a few bugs and tried to make Block more robust (10% increase in Block Meter). Overall small balance changes here and there, which is what i expected. Overall a nice buff.
I just dont know if it will make the other specs more viable or useful to clearing pve content.
TEST REALM - is live.
step 1: GO http://nw.perfectworld.com/preview and transfer character to test shard.
step 2: log into test client. Just above where you see patching status will be the option to change to the test shard.
tip: once you start patching the test shard do NOT click the "Neverwinter" tab. It will start the preview patching all over again when you go back.
I think the spec will still be viable, they increased our threat gen by 35%, fixed a few bugs and tried to make Block more robust (10% increase in Block Meter). Overall small balance changes here and there, which is what i expected. Overall a nice buff.
I just dont know if it will make the other specs more viable or useful to clearing pve content.
TEST REALM - is live.
step 1: GO http://nw.perfectworld.com/preview and transfer character to test shard.
step 2: log into test client. Just above where you see patching status will be the option to change to the test shard.
tip: once you start patching the test shard do NOT click the "Neverwinter" tab. It will start the preview patching all over again when you go back.
Obviously things will need to be tested, but my initial thoughts are that this will still be the go to spec. The state of most dungeons (read: all) is damage > anything. And in all honesty, the Protection tree as an example doesn't offer that much more survivability at the cost of a ton of DPS. The block change affects all specs; the threat change affects all specs, etc.
So being able to do damage is still paramount, and as long as you can block the big attacks that you cannot avoid, then your "tankiness" isn't effected.
Play my foundry campaign, Vermilion: Spirit of Gevaudan. The first quest, The Desperate Messenger is now available @ NWS-DM44FZM2W
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elanithMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
That is currently what i am thinking as well. This patch feels more along the line of : Get everything actually working the way its supposed to (broken feats), throw a couple small buffs that we are sure GFs need (Threat & Block), than nerf a few abilities that are working far better than they are supposed to (Astral Shield) and see how things work out.
After this is where they will determine if certain Paragon Paths actually need buffs/changes or not. Thats even assuming they want every path/spec to be viable end game.
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superdonquixoteMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 3Arc User
edited June 2013
Rokuthy...
Did you ever determine if ArPen is better than Greater Tenebrous enchantments?
Currently I have 6 Greater Tenebrous enchants, and they seem to do about 10% of my total dps (roughly doing ~800 damage per proc every 10 seconds)... which equates to about 480dps. My total DPS on a CN run was ~4800 dps (enc).
With the costs of switching all my tenebrous to ArPen, it would be useful to know how, say, 1500 ArPen stacks up against this. Or how about 2000 ArPen?
I'm primarily concerned with PvE, not Pvp. And my current ArPen is 200.
Did you ever determine if ArPen is better than Greater Tenebrous enchantments?
Currently I have 6 Greater Tenebrous enchants, and they seem to do about 10% of my total dps (roughly doing ~800 damage per proc every 10 seconds)... which equates to about 480dps. My total DPS on a CN run was ~4800 dps (enc).
With the costs of switching all my tenebrous to ArPen, it would be useful to know how, say, 1500 ArPen stacks up against this. Or how about 2000 ArPen?
I'm primarily concerned with PvE, not Pvp. And my current ArPen is 200.
Ok I am so confused. With arm pen. When you use stalwark set how do you get 22% arm pen. In your display your arm pen is super low ? Right now I just got my arm pen to 7.1% roughly about 850. I went dps gear on my slots not using any of stalwark yet but I went arm pen on gear with power and crit. then arm pen in offensive slots and im still only at 7.1 % I don't see how dex works into your arm pen. I have 15 dex. All I know when I hover over my arm pen stat at 850 it says 7.1% how the heck can I get to 22% seem impossible if I am stacking power and recover as well. I don't get it.
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elanithMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Ok I am so confused. With arm pen. When you use stalwark set how do you get 22% arm pen. In your display your arm pen is super low ? Right now I just got my arm pen to 7.1% roughly about 850. I went dps gear on my slots not using any of stalwark yet but I went arm pen on gear with power and crit. then arm pen in offensive slots and im still only at 7.1 % I don't see how dex works into your arm pen. I have 15 dex. All I know when I hover over my arm pen stat at 850 it says 7.1% how the heck can I get to 22% seem impossible if I am stacking power and recover as well. I don't get it.
Ok I am so confused. With arm pen. When you use stalwark set how do you get 22% arm pen. In your display your arm pen is super low ? Right now I just got my arm pen to 7.1% roughly about 850. I went dps gear on my slots not using any of stalwark yet but I went arm pen on gear with power and crit. then arm pen in offensive slots and im still only at 7.1 % I don't see how dex works into your arm pen. I have 15 dex. All I know when I hover over my arm pen stat at 850 it says 7.1% how the heck can I get to 22% seem impossible if I am stacking power and recover as well. I don't get it.
I have 2150 ArPen (rating) in both Stalwart and Timeless - the jewelry/accessories don't change (and yes, the Cat).
Did you ever determine if ArPen is better than Greater Tenebrous enchantments?
Currently I have 6 Greater Tenebrous enchants, and they seem to do about 10% of my total dps (roughly doing ~800 damage per proc every 10 seconds)... which equates to about 480dps. My total DPS on a CN run was ~4800 dps (enc).
With the costs of switching all my tenebrous to ArPen, it would be useful to know how, say, 1500 ArPen stacks up against this. Or how about 2000 ArPen?
I'm primarily concerned with PvE, not Pvp. And my current ArPen is 200.
I don't have the exact numbers on me - if you're getting 480 DPS from the Tenebrous enchants, it wouldn't be hard to plug your stats into the spreadsheet as they are, then boosting your ArPen to 22% and seeing if the difference is > 480 or not to get a good idea on if it's something you want to do. I know I personally didn't like Tenebrous for PvE.
Hey I been looking at both this guide an Envys good reads both and ty for doing this. I have my GF capped and I am using the stalwart set, well I am still missing the helm, but I am unsure what would be best to use my last 5 enhancement points on.
Envys has them in Fight On and Crushing Pin. Is the 10% faster cooldown on skills worth it in pve, does it make much of a difference. I play mostly pve. Does it reduce cooldowns that much? Does 1or 2 secs useful in pve?
I see you have your points in this and Battle Trample. I use Combat Superiority and Enhanced Mark though. Improved Vigor looks nice but I am unsure.
I am thinking maybe I should dump Crushing Pin and take Fight On and improved Vigor.
Why emphasize Power over Crit? If you can get your crit at a particular %, wont that off set the lost DPS - effectively going for maximizing long term DPS by increasing Crit damage over consistent damage through power. Should be able to do the math, especially when you take in diminishing returns, there is probably an optimal Crit / Power score that should guarantee max DPS. (Thinking a bit about the current Crit Cleric build that maxes damage and action point (read divinity) regain through high crit chance.)
I have 2150 ArPen (rating) in both Stalwart and Timeless - the jewelry/accessories don't change (and yes, the Cat).
Hmm ok well I don't have a cat/ioun. What is your arm pen no companion. In the earlier screen shot u had. only like 100 arm pen displayed with your 12k power. When I look at stalwart it just doesn't seem that good cause its more defensive when other gear is more power/crit/recovery. I am newer but with the 4 pc set you only get a power buff for 8 sec. Honestly I do pvp more. I think in the end ill get a pve set and pvp set.
Also was looking at unicorn stalwart in AH to test it. To get high arm pen you have rank 7 arm pen in every slot as well. ?
Great guide also as I am still learning diminishing returns and what to stack.
Why emphasize Power over Crit? If you can get your crit at a particular %, wont that off set the lost DPS - effectively going for maximizing long term DPS by increasing Crit damage over consistent damage through power. Should be able to do the math, especially when you take in diminishing returns, there is probably an optimal Crit / Power score that should guarantee max DPS. (Thinking a bit about the current Crit Cleric build that maxes damage and action point (read divinity) regain through high crit chance.)
Mainly because, purely from a PvE perspective, Crit just doesn't add much DPS for the GF. I mean, I know it sounds weird, but we don't scale all that well with Crit.
However, with that being said, when I use Timeless (which is the majority of the time), I have 2700 Crit rating with the set stacked, which isn't far off from being capped. So regardless, I do still have Crit, but stacking the power is still more important (for PvE).
Why would you want to have the steel bulwark greaves?
Anyways, Rokuthy made a guide where to find the set items in the first post;
Helm - Lair of the Mad Dragon
Gauntlets - Cloak Tower
Greaves - Cragmire Crypts
Armor - Throne of Idris
Steel Bulwark probably for cosmetic purposes - I use the full Steel Bulwark set for my appearance, but I've never seen boots drop (nor found them on the AH, either). Probably not in game.
Steel Bulwark probably for cosmetic purposes - I use the full Steel Bulwark set for my appearance, but I've never seen boots drop (nor found them on the AH, either). Probably not in game.
Ah, i see.
Oh btw Rokuthy. Have you tried out the changes yet?
Oh btw Rokuthy. Have you tried out the changes yet?
I mean, I logged in the preview server but what's to really try?
They 'fixed' shield block - it still breaks after an encounter use, but will refresh after a 1 second ICD as long as you repress when you lose the block.
They gave us some more threat - wonderful, threat was never really an issue at any point. Was it hard to hold threat? Sure, but we weren't punished for losing it either. So now it's a little easier to hold threat, but we only gained what - 10% more shield block to deal with said threat? Not sure if I even wanted more threat to begin with, but it won't change much.
Might have to block a little more often since clerics won't be perpetually kiting (they still will on most bosses) trash. The amount of adds that spawn on certain boss encounters, it would be foolish to attempt to tank them all - so the increased threat gain doesn't mean anything to me at all. Our class will die just as fast as any other class if we suddenly have aggro on 20 mobs and attempt to face tank them - so someone is going to end up kiting. Might as well be the cleric still.
Did I miss anything else? Nothing noteworthy really seemed to change the base concept of this build (or the class in general) unless I missed something huge.
Is it bad going with stone instead of Cat? What i like with stone is that it seems to be more all around and not just dps or am i wrong?
I'm not sure regarding the stone. Nevertheless, you can't go wrong using either. If you get your hands on the stone, i would personally sell it to get the cat.
I think i read somewhere that the cat gives more stats than the stone. But again, i'm not sure.
Oh, btw, my post regarding armor pen. I have 15 dex, just so you know :-)
I'm not sure regarding the stone. Nevertheless, you can't go wrong using either. If you get your hands on the stone, i would personally sell it to get the cat.
I think i read somewhere that the cat gives more stats than the stone. But again, i'm not sure.
Oh, btw, my post regarding armor pen. I have 15 dex, just so you know :-)
I think Cat gives 225 power/crit and stone gives if i remember correctly 150 power/crit/recovery.
Cat has on the other hand a belt while stone has an icon, dunno wich of them that would be best tough, what i don't know is if they got the same runeslots or if other equipment is different.
wont this update free up some space for more defensive speccing? i mean with the increased threat and cleric decreased we can hold mobs easier and up our defenses. so we stack less power for more Defense/Recovery. or am i just blowing wind?
0
elanithMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
wont this update free up some space for more defensive speccing? i mean with the increased threat and cleric decreased we can hold mobs easier and up our defenses. so we stack less power for more Defense/Recovery. or am i just blowing wind?
Nope everything is pretty much staying the same on our end. While this may make going the other 2 specs more vailable (more threat) it doesn't change anything for us fundamentaly. Sense every spec can "tank" mobs with the same sort of success (within a very narrow percentage) it comes down to utility, and what will help clear instances faster.
With prot spec we dont really gain all that much more defense, but loose a huge chunk of our DPS. Than there is our Utility spec, wich also looses out on DPS. So the question is, is the loss of dps worth whatever we gain in the other specs? For me that answer is still no. At this point im waiting to see how they rebalance dungeons (if they even do) and how they create new content. That will determine if i need to respec.
Mainly because, purely from a PvE perspective, Crit just doesn't add much DPS for the GF. I mean, I know it sounds weird, but we don't scale all that well with Crit.
However, with that being said, when I use Timeless (which is the majority of the time), I have 2700 Crit rating with the set stacked, which isn't far off from being capped. So regardless, I do still have Crit, but stacking the power is still more important (for PvE).
Comments
%Negation from Dex* or (Dex-10)*.01
Alrighty, thanks again
Rokuthy,
Still curious about this, if you don't mind answering it. I've been wondering for awhile if 3/3 Combat Superiority was really worth it.
Thanks,
Astos
I just dont know if it will make the other specs more viable or useful to clearing pve content.
TEST REALM - is live.
step 1: GO http://nw.perfectworld.com/preview and transfer character to test shard.
step 2: log into test client. Just above where you see patching status will be the option to change to the test shard.
tip: once you start patching the test shard do NOT click the "Neverwinter" tab. It will start the preview patching all over again when you go back.
Obviously things will need to be tested, but my initial thoughts are that this will still be the go to spec. The state of most dungeons (read: all) is damage > anything. And in all honesty, the Protection tree as an example doesn't offer that much more survivability at the cost of a ton of DPS. The block change affects all specs; the threat change affects all specs, etc.
So being able to do damage is still paramount, and as long as you can block the big attacks that you cannot avoid, then your "tankiness" isn't effected.
After this is where they will determine if certain Paragon Paths actually need buffs/changes or not. Thats even assuming they want every path/spec to be viable end game.
Did you ever determine if ArPen is better than Greater Tenebrous enchantments?
Currently I have 6 Greater Tenebrous enchants, and they seem to do about 10% of my total dps (roughly doing ~800 damage per proc every 10 seconds)... which equates to about 480dps. My total DPS on a CN run was ~4800 dps (enc).
With the costs of switching all my tenebrous to ArPen, it would be useful to know how, say, 1500 ArPen stacks up against this. Or how about 2000 ArPen?
I'm primarily concerned with PvE, not Pvp. And my current ArPen is 200.
Ok I am so confused. With arm pen. When you use stalwark set how do you get 22% arm pen. In your display your arm pen is super low ? Right now I just got my arm pen to 7.1% roughly about 850. I went dps gear on my slots not using any of stalwark yet but I went arm pen on gear with power and crit. then arm pen in offensive slots and im still only at 7.1 % I don't see how dex works into your arm pen. I have 15 dex. All I know when I hover over my arm pen stat at 850 it says 7.1% how the heck can I get to 22% seem impossible if I am stacking power and recover as well. I don't get it.
Cat/Ioun Stone
I have 2150 ArPen (rating) in both Stalwart and Timeless - the jewelry/accessories don't change (and yes, the Cat).
I don't have the exact numbers on me - if you're getting 480 DPS from the Tenebrous enchants, it wouldn't be hard to plug your stats into the spreadsheet as they are, then boosting your ArPen to 22% and seeing if the difference is > 480 or not to get a good idea on if it's something you want to do. I know I personally didn't like Tenebrous for PvE.
Envys has them in Fight On and Crushing Pin. Is the 10% faster cooldown on skills worth it in pve, does it make much of a difference. I play mostly pve. Does it reduce cooldowns that much? Does 1or 2 secs useful in pve?
I see you have your points in this and Battle Trample. I use Combat Superiority and Enhanced Mark though. Improved Vigor looks nice but I am unsure.
I am thinking maybe I should dump Crushing Pin and take Fight On and improved Vigor.
Neverwinter Thieves Guild
Hmm ok well I don't have a cat/ioun. What is your arm pen no companion. In the earlier screen shot u had. only like 100 arm pen displayed with your 12k power. When I look at stalwart it just doesn't seem that good cause its more defensive when other gear is more power/crit/recovery. I am newer but with the 4 pc set you only get a power buff for 8 sec. Honestly I do pvp more. I think in the end ill get a pve set and pvp set.
Also was looking at unicorn stalwart in AH to test it. To get high arm pen you have rank 7 arm pen in every slot as well. ?
Great guide also as I am still learning diminishing returns and what to stack.
Mainly because, purely from a PvE perspective, Crit just doesn't add much DPS for the GF. I mean, I know it sounds weird, but we don't scale all that well with Crit.
However, with that being said, when I use Timeless (which is the majority of the time), I have 2700 Crit rating with the set stacked, which isn't far off from being capped. So regardless, I do still have Crit, but stacking the power is still more important (for PvE).
How much ArPen can i expect to get without a Cat/Stone with the Stalwart optimization (+7 enchants)?
Thanks.
With the cat, i have 2200. And that's without it having the ring on (the cat is only lvl 24 atm). Also with rank 6 gems.(21.8%)
So yes, the cat gives ALOT stats.
Can't wait until i can equip the cat with a nice ring.
Why would you want to have the steel bulwark greaves?
Anyways, Rokuthy made a guide where to find the set items in the first post;
Helm - Lair of the Mad Dragon
Gauntlets - Cloak Tower
Greaves - Cragmire Crypts
Armor - Throne of Idris
Steel Bulwark probably for cosmetic purposes - I use the full Steel Bulwark set for my appearance, but I've never seen boots drop (nor found them on the AH, either). Probably not in game.
Ah, i see.
Oh btw Rokuthy. Have you tried out the changes yet?
I mean, I logged in the preview server but what's to really try?
They 'fixed' shield block - it still breaks after an encounter use, but will refresh after a 1 second ICD as long as you repress when you lose the block.
They gave us some more threat - wonderful, threat was never really an issue at any point. Was it hard to hold threat? Sure, but we weren't punished for losing it either. So now it's a little easier to hold threat, but we only gained what - 10% more shield block to deal with said threat? Not sure if I even wanted more threat to begin with, but it won't change much.
Might have to block a little more often since clerics won't be perpetually kiting (they still will on most bosses) trash. The amount of adds that spawn on certain boss encounters, it would be foolish to attempt to tank them all - so the increased threat gain doesn't mean anything to me at all. Our class will die just as fast as any other class if we suddenly have aggro on 20 mobs and attempt to face tank them - so someone is going to end up kiting. Might as well be the cleric still.
Did I miss anything else? Nothing noteworthy really seemed to change the base concept of this build (or the class in general) unless I missed something huge.
Thanks.
Cosmetic, I allready got full stalwart and Steel Bulwark looks alot better. (:
I'm not sure regarding the stone. Nevertheless, you can't go wrong using either. If you get your hands on the stone, i would personally sell it to get the cat.
I think i read somewhere that the cat gives more stats than the stone. But again, i'm not sure.
Oh, btw, my post regarding armor pen. I have 15 dex, just so you know :-)
I think Cat gives 225 power/crit and stone gives if i remember correctly 150 power/crit/recovery.
Cat has on the other hand a belt while stone has an icon, dunno wich of them that would be best tough, what i don't know is if they got the same runeslots or if other equipment is different.
Ok, i got 16 dex (with buff).
Nope everything is pretty much staying the same on our end. While this may make going the other 2 specs more vailable (more threat) it doesn't change anything for us fundamentaly. Sense every spec can "tank" mobs with the same sort of success (within a very narrow percentage) it comes down to utility, and what will help clear instances faster.
With prot spec we dont really gain all that much more defense, but loose a huge chunk of our DPS. Than there is our Utility spec, wich also looses out on DPS. So the question is, is the loss of dps worth whatever we gain in the other specs? For me that answer is still no. At this point im waiting to see how they rebalance dungeons (if they even do) and how they create new content. That will determine if i need to respec.
Got it. Makes sense. Cheers!