there won't be any wipes after open beta in case u don't know that yet
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difinitusMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
A rollback was absolutely necessary, and it had to be done. Although time spent in game during that time was lost, the good outweighs the bad and I am content with this decision.
Alright, just how is a 7 hr roll back suppose to fix the economy? Apparently this bug has been going on longer then just the last couple of days. Its doubtful that all the people that exploited this bug were caught which means there are still people in-game using ill gotten AD. How does a few hr roll back fix that? Wouldn't a complete wipe been much more logical? An please, if by some chance that any of these post are even being read, don't give that same "we didn't won't to effect the people that didn't abuse the bug" comment.
A number of people seem incredulous that 7 hours of roll-back would have much of an effect. I'm sorry, but that's just linear thinking at work. If I was PWE (and I'm not, but if I was), I would look at a plot of the total number of AD in player accounts over time. I'm betting the plot started to go exponential sometime early Sunday morning. Hence, the 7 hour rollback. With exponential processes, it really is possible to confine large amounts of damage to small windows of time. That said, I'm glad they blew up all of that griefing while leaving the vast majority of characters mostly alone. And, certain people seem to be acting like the rollback is the only action being taken... it isn't. That AD is being tracked and the mule accounts banned/disabled.
Q: Celestial Coins were lost as a result of the downtime? What will be done about this?
A: We understand that this is a concern and we are aware of the feedback. Though we may not be able to provide replacement Celestial coins, we are certainly looking into it. As we cannot guarantee replacements, we are ensuring we shortly deliver a robust thank-you pack.
This is complete bull. So your saying in 250 days when you mess up again and I'm only 100 days away from the epic healer that I will lose all my coins due to one of your unscheduled down times. Oh but wait you will make up for it by giving me a care package. Give me a break. Keep your stinking package and give me my coins back. A Rollback is a rollback is a rollback. If you roll me back to 5:20 am yesterday I will have 8 coins..... not 0 as I have now. **** this.
Why did they rollback the actual DROPS people received from dungeons. It should be extremely easy for them to just rollback all mails/auctions/trades, but NOT the actual DROPS people received. This would have saved allot of trouble.
I obtained my t2 chest and gloves yesterday while dungeon delving. Now they're both gone. How easy can it be for them to check if I obtained my item trough that dungeon delving chest or trough auctions?
They went for the lazy sollution, instead of fixing it FAIRLY. Because me loosing 2 t2 pieces is NOT FAIR>
The beginning of the end for this game. Not that this will be read but soon enough you will be thrown to the waste side like so many other mmo's.
Had you come out and taken accountability and apologized maybe you could have held subscribers a little longer. Unfortunately, the blame was laid on players who found an exploit and abused it. What do you think a gamer is going to do with an exploit? Sad truth is most gamers don't commit long term anymore. In my opinion punishing all for the sake of a few was a bad idea and will eventually be your demise. The solution chosen was the lazy solution.
Other notables would be that the auction house doesn't work properly for searches and is way too slow which will cut out that niche of subscriber. Also, pvp is too limited which will cut out that niche of subscriber. The questing is good so far and doesn't seem to be too much farming which is a good thing. Instancing is decent but I can't comment on further lvl dungeons and loot drops yet.
So far a decent game which is obviously not in BETA. If you want to keep your subscribers and succeed I would seriously invest some time into making the auction house flawless and add some pvp content like capture the flag ect ect.
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wombleyMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 6Arc User
edited May 2013
I transferred 2000 Zen to my account prior to the servers coming down (I was unaware of the exploit). When I check my account I have a 0 balance but I have not even logged into the game since yesterday. I assumed I had to re-transfer my Zen but no I have 0 Zen. Please fix this, I would like to have the Zen I actually paid for.
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merlin420idMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
LOLOLOLOLOL what a bunch of HAMSTER
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amazingrMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 15Arc User
edited May 2013
I think the "event" started a lot sooner than Sunday morning. I logged in Saturday night when I got home from my D&D game and an item I was selling the AH was bought out at the buy out price. As it was a high priced item (a Nightmare) and I was saving to get myself a Galeb Dur I had seen on the AH, I went right in there to see where any bids were at. And all of the ones with buy out prices were gone, in just that time I left for D&D at 6pm Eastern time to when I got home at about midnight. The one that was a bid, had a negative bid on it. Just an FYI. Considering you took back the AD I made from the sale on Saturday I am sure you know it was in that time frame things really ramped up with that exploit.
I do hope I haven't lost the items I had listed on the AH at least get them back in my inventory when the AH is restored. That would seriously suck if we all lost out because of the actions of several jerks!
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avarigirlMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 10Arc User
Q: Celestial Coins were lost as a result of the downtime? What will be done about this?
A: We understand that this is a concern and we are aware of the feedback. Though we may not be able to provide replacement Celestial coins, we are certainly looking into it. As we cannot guarantee replacements, we are ensuring we shortly deliver a robust thank-you pack.
This is complete bull. So your saying in 250 days when you mess up again and I'm only 100 days away from the epic healer that I will lose all my coins due to one of your unscheduled down times. Oh but wait you will make up for it by giving me a care package. Give me a break. Keep your stinking package and give me my coins back. A Rollback is a rollback is a rollback. If you roll me back to 5:20 am yesterday I will have 8 coins..... not 0 as I have now. **** this.
this is what im most upset about. IDK about anything else i lost. but these coins. ya, its a time.. thing..
I agree. and personally they should not erase them , if they/server is down and ur unable to log on, cause of them!.. they should be able to look prior to the roll back, and set coins correctly. IMO
"Drive it like u stole it"
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merlin420idMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Q: Celestial Coins were lost as a result of the downtime? What will be done about this?
A: We understand that this is a concern and we are aware of the feedback. Though we may not be able to provide replacement Celestial coins, we are certainly looking into it. As we cannot guarantee replacements, we are ensuring we shortly deliver a robust thank-you pack.
This is complete bull. So your saying in 250 days when you mess up again and I'm only 100 days away from the epic healer that I will lose all my coins due to one of your unscheduled down times. Oh but wait you will make up for it by giving me a care package. Give me a break. Keep your stinking package and give me my coins back. A Rollback is a rollback is a rollback. If you roll me back to 5:20 am yesterday I will have 8 coins..... not 0 as I have now. **** this.
Hi!
I know you've kind of addressed this, but how can we say that stuff that happened more than 7 hours ago was insignificant when all the zen on the market was completely bought out on Saturday morning just the same as it was on Sunday morning. At this point, I'd really like a cash refund for all the zen I've purchased in this game, including the cost of my founder's pack. There is no way to ever restore anything resembling integrity to the game or its economy. This is why most companies treat beta as beta and wipe clean at launch.
Krevdar
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cyberkatMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
So basically you're saying that instead of doing that from the beggining, you wiped the progress of the players during a WEEKEND day (aka one of the times there will be more people playing) just to appease the bunch of idiots who spend their days playing this HAMSTER and have been crying for a wipe for days.
To appease those you ruin 7h of gametime (which on Europe coincide with what's probably peak game hours (which is from 1pm to 8pm) on weekends) and you plan to make it up with a pack if random thrown items? Good job, seriously i was hoping that after years publishing games in the western market PWE would have learned something... Guess not.
And for those jubilant idiots, here's a hint, they erased 7h of your gametime for NOTHING!! What they accomplished here would be accomplished by the aforementioned log reviews, but without the innocent flak. So yeah, good job PWE. Keep it up. The competition thanks you.
What makes you think PWE accomplished nothing with a 7hr rollback? Looks to me like they reversed some of the effects of a rampant few exploiters. PWE will/can not roll back further because the game is in open public beta with real financial transactions taking place. Further accomplishment is that the markets are closed while they fix the exploits. So are they accomplishing nothing as you say? I think not.
Now on to you and all the other whiners bawling about a rollback...
We are in open beta. You know what the word betameans?
1. Because it is open beta, there won't be any full wipes - not even when the game is released.
No smart game company that puts out a game would do that on a full public beta. Those of us who were on closed beta expected wipes to happen as the game development happened. Open beta means the game company feels the game is stable enough to not require full wipes.
2. Because it is an open beta, you had better to expect to see server outages, exploit fixes, component disablement and yes... system rollbacks (personally I am very pleased they actually can do that).
Everything just sort of a full wipe is fair and as a beta tester, you need to accept and deal with it when it happens. It is all part of testing the product and making sure it is solid before it is released. That's right, this game has not been released yet!
When you agreed to create and use an account during beta testing, you accepted these conditions just like the rest of us.
So suck it up and stop freaking whining about it! You don't want to deal with bugs, server outages and extended fix testing, wait til the game is released before playing.
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jukejointjezebelMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
What I fail to understand is why the roll-backs even happened. This is beta after all. If people exploited something, and got a few things from that, temp ban those accounts, put them on a watch list, fix the issue and move on. None of it really matters since when the game goes live, we'll all have to start over anyway.
On that same note, why complain if the developers did a roll-back. As HAMSTER as that course of actions was, it still does not matter since, like I already said, when the game goes live, we all start over.
Overall, this has been a pretty good open beta. I have been in many beta's myself, and for a FTP, this one is doing better than most PTP games in a long time. Yeah, there is the occasional glitch here and there, like mercs running through walls to attack mobs you cannot get to, or try to attack the traps in the floors (this one really makes me laugh) and mobs just dropping through ceilings to get to you, but OVERALL, this has been a pretty good beta.
No, we won't have to start over again.
PW has been saying from the beginning that there will -not- be a total wipe.
Kudos to the team for making a (somewhat) unpopular but (hopefully) successful choice. I've been through something similar (but smaller scale) when working on another MMO, and it's not an easy thing to come out here and tell your fans and customers that you (effectively) "lost" some of their time and stuff due to what now seems like a bug "only a **** programmer would code".
- For those complaining about their lost progress... stop it, please. In the long run, 7 hours of progress will be considered trivial, just give it time. The only people who have a real beef about this are those who hit the lottery on Nightmare boxes during the time period, and I'm pretty sure NW will make it up to them.
- There are no bugs that "only a **** programmer would make"... or at least they exist everywhere. Trivial things (now) such as buffer length checking, etc. are only trivial now because some huge company released product with them in it, and had it exploited (Microsoft, Netscape, etc).
- "They could fix this without a rollback".... maybe, but probably not as completely, and it would certainly take a LOT more effort and probably a lot more CS time dealing with individual cases. At some point, you have to make a decision and, if this ends up "fixing" the economy with only a 7-hour rollback? Well, as I said, not that big a price to pay for 99% of the players.
I still plan to play. This kind of action by the devs actually gives me a better feeling for how the devs will react to future exploits (with necessary, if unpopular, action), and hope for a longer run as a viable game.
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uchicaitachiMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 6Arc User
edited May 2013
I have one question I had some Zen up for sale which were sold at some point (don't know the exact time) but since the exchange is down i cant claim my AD back.. So what will happened with that AD will they be lost ?? (its was like 440k or something so its kind of important). I am pretty sure someone must have asked that before me but its like 100 pages before me so i can't read all of them. Sorry for that.
Q: Celestial Coins were lost as a result of the downtime? What will be done about this?
.
They said CELESTIAL coins, not ARDENT coins. Celestials are the ones that vanish after 29 hours without an Invoke, and have a limit of seven. The ones you are talking about are Ardents, which have no apparent limit, and do NOT vanish if you fail to Invoke.
Q: Celestial Coins were lost as a result of the downtime? What will be done about this?
A: We understand that this is a concern and we are aware of the feedback. Though we may not be able to provide replacement Celestial coins, we are certainly looking into it. As we cannot guarantee replacements, we are ensuring we shortly deliver a robust thank-you pack.
This is complete bull. So your saying in 250 days when you mess up again and I'm only 100 days away from the epic healer that I will lose all my coins due to one of your unscheduled down times. Oh but wait you will make up for it by giving me a care package. Give me a break. Keep your stinking package and give me my coins back. A Rollback is a rollback is a rollback. If you roll me back to 5:20 am yesterday I will have 8 coins..... not 0 as I have now. **** this.
You are mixing up the 2 coins. Ardent coins are the one you buy the healer with and they do not disappear. Celestial coins disappear but you can only have a max of 7.
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amielhipolitoMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 6Arc User
edited May 2013
QQ: Missing a few astral diamonds which I earned from AH sales (which I collected already). If I do understand this correct, the items I supposedly posted in AH will be restored correct?
My husband and I have been following this event closely (like thousands of other players). We are posting to thank all the people at PWE and Cryptic for their continued efforts. Rollbacks and wipes can be 'scary' especially for players new to MMO's. I think the Game (including developers, management and players) has come through with flying colors. I would like to especially commend the NWN official posters who exhibited patience and compassion in all their posts.
Well done, Team Neverwinter!
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necronomniconMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Comments
Thank you for the swift action.
A number of people seem incredulous that 7 hours of roll-back would have much of an effect. I'm sorry, but that's just linear thinking at work. If I was PWE (and I'm not, but if I was), I would look at a plot of the total number of AD in player accounts over time. I'm betting the plot started to go exponential sometime early Sunday morning. Hence, the 7 hour rollback. With exponential processes, it really is possible to confine large amounts of damage to small windows of time. That said, I'm glad they blew up all of that griefing while leaving the vast majority of characters mostly alone. And, certain people seem to be acting like the rollback is the only action being taken... it isn't. That AD is being tracked and the mule accounts banned/disabled.
A: We understand that this is a concern and we are aware of the feedback. Though we may not be able to provide replacement Celestial coins, we are certainly looking into it. As we cannot guarantee replacements, we are ensuring we shortly deliver a robust thank-you pack.
This is complete bull. So your saying in 250 days when you mess up again and I'm only 100 days away from the epic healer that I will lose all my coins due to one of your unscheduled down times. Oh but wait you will make up for it by giving me a care package. Give me a break. Keep your stinking package and give me my coins back. A Rollback is a rollback is a rollback. If you roll me back to 5:20 am yesterday I will have 8 coins..... not 0 as I have now. **** this.
Why did they rollback the actual DROPS people received from dungeons. It should be extremely easy for them to just rollback all mails/auctions/trades, but NOT the actual DROPS people received. This would have saved allot of trouble.
I obtained my t2 chest and gloves yesterday while dungeon delving. Now they're both gone. How easy can it be for them to check if I obtained my item trough that dungeon delving chest or trough auctions?
They went for the lazy sollution, instead of fixing it FAIRLY. Because me loosing 2 t2 pieces is NOT FAIR>
Had you come out and taken accountability and apologized maybe you could have held subscribers a little longer. Unfortunately, the blame was laid on players who found an exploit and abused it. What do you think a gamer is going to do with an exploit? Sad truth is most gamers don't commit long term anymore. In my opinion punishing all for the sake of a few was a bad idea and will eventually be your demise. The solution chosen was the lazy solution.
Other notables would be that the auction house doesn't work properly for searches and is way too slow which will cut out that niche of subscriber. Also, pvp is too limited which will cut out that niche of subscriber. The questing is good so far and doesn't seem to be too much farming which is a good thing. Instancing is decent but I can't comment on further lvl dungeons and loot drops yet.
So far a decent game which is obviously not in BETA. If you want to keep your subscribers and succeed I would seriously invest some time into making the auction house flawless and add some pvp content like capture the flag ect ect.
I do hope I haven't lost the items I had listed on the AH at least get them back in my inventory when the AH is restored. That would seriously suck if we all lost out because of the actions of several jerks!
this is what im most upset about. IDK about anything else i lost. but these coins. ya, its a time.. thing..
I agree. and personally they should not erase them , if they/server is down and ur unable to log on, cause of them!.. they should be able to look prior to the roll back, and set coins correctly. IMO
Yup, bend over and take it son!
I know you've kind of addressed this, but how can we say that stuff that happened more than 7 hours ago was insignificant when all the zen on the market was completely bought out on Saturday morning just the same as it was on Sunday morning. At this point, I'd really like a cash refund for all the zen I've purchased in this game, including the cost of my founder's pack. There is no way to ever restore anything resembling integrity to the game or its economy. This is why most companies treat beta as beta and wipe clean at launch.
Krevdar
What makes you think PWE accomplished nothing with a 7hr rollback? Looks to me like they reversed some of the effects of a rampant few exploiters. PWE will/can not roll back further because the game is in open public beta with real financial transactions taking place. Further accomplishment is that the markets are closed while they fix the exploits. So are they accomplishing nothing as you say? I think not.
Now on to you and all the other whiners bawling about a rollback...
We are in open beta. You know what the word beta means?
1. Because it is open beta, there won't be any full wipes - not even when the game is released.
No smart game company that puts out a game would do that on a full public beta. Those of us who were on closed beta expected wipes to happen as the game development happened. Open beta means the game company feels the game is stable enough to not require full wipes.
2. Because it is an open beta, you had better to expect to see server outages, exploit fixes, component disablement and yes... system rollbacks (personally I am very pleased they actually can do that).
Everything just sort of a full wipe is fair and as a beta tester, you need to accept and deal with it when it happens. It is all part of testing the product and making sure it is solid before it is released. That's right, this game has not been released yet!
When you agreed to create and use an account during beta testing, you accepted these conditions just like the rest of us.
So suck it up and stop freaking whining about it! You don't want to deal with bugs, server outages and extended fix testing, wait til the game is released before playing.
No, we won't have to start over again.
PW has been saying from the beginning that there will -not- be a total wipe.
- For those complaining about their lost progress... stop it, please. In the long run, 7 hours of progress will be considered trivial, just give it time. The only people who have a real beef about this are those who hit the lottery on Nightmare boxes during the time period, and I'm pretty sure NW will make it up to them.
- There are no bugs that "only a **** programmer would make"... or at least they exist everywhere. Trivial things (now) such as buffer length checking, etc. are only trivial now because some huge company released product with them in it, and had it exploited (Microsoft, Netscape, etc).
- "They could fix this without a rollback".... maybe, but probably not as completely, and it would certainly take a LOT more effort and probably a lot more CS time dealing with individual cases. At some point, you have to make a decision and, if this ends up "fixing" the economy with only a 7-hour rollback? Well, as I said, not that big a price to pay for 99% of the players.
I still plan to play. This kind of action by the devs actually gives me a better feeling for how the devs will react to future exploits (with necessary, if unpopular, action), and hope for a longer run as a viable game.
Thank you in advance
You are mixing up the 2 coins. Ardent coins are the one you buy the healer with and they do not disappear. Celestial coins disappear but you can only have a max of 7.
Well done, Team Neverwinter!
enjoy your mules
-Sincerely, Sucker
Farewell remorse; all good to me is lost.
Evil, be thou my good.