I appreciate all of you who are giving them a thumbs up, but I was on for 10 minutes yesterday, I exploited nothing and I woke up today to find myself banned. I have sent in about 10 tickets and emails to their support, contacted them on twitter and got nothing.
You want to talk about false positives and dropping the ball, this is a good example. I spent 200 on the founders pack and over 1000 in ZEN and this is how I'm treated? I can't imagine what the free users would be treated like.
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ashericMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
I definitely agree with this decision. While it's certainly a terrible thing that such an exploit happened at all, a minor rollback performed shortly after the incident was undoubtedly the best option to a terrible scenario. While I do feel that anyone pointing out that the exploit was known about beforehand and should have been fixed sooner is certainly justified in their accusations, overlooking the exploit was a mistake which had already been made and in terms of choices available for the here-and-now this was the best one. To clarify my thoughts on the matter, I'll analyze what I believe the available choices were:
1) A Complete Wipe - This is for all intents and purposes a death sentence for the game. Launch week is the moment which will often make or break a game (yes, it's 'open beta', but when a game has no future wipes planned, a working cash shop, content up to and at endgame, and is entirely open for anyone to download and play, it is for all intents and purposes 'launched') and a wipe shortly after launch week celebrations would have been both horrible publicity (far more so than a rollback) and would have lead to many, many players simply not returning either out of frustration at having lost so much progress or out of fear of future wipes. What's more, even though the exploit existed it did not have a major impact upon the economy until recently and any impact it may have had will have all but vanished in the long term; there is no reason to use a sledgehammer when a flyswatter will suffice.
2) Fix on a Case-by-Case Basis - Also a death sentence for the game. Performing no rollback at all would mean millions upon millions of astral diamonds still very much affecting all levels of the economy. Prices would have escalated and a thick barrier of entry would have formed for any new players. What's more, 'fixing' the issue on a case-by-case basis would have taken weeks, if not months, to perform and valuable development time would have been wasted. Furthermore, this would have likely lead to people who had unknowingly acquired some form of currency or items from those who abused this exploit suddenly finding that a big chunk of their money or some of their items simply disappeared. This is time-consuming, messy, and a big blow to the in-game economy.
3) Only Fix the Exploit and Ban Exploiters - This is possibly the worst decision of all as it leaves the impact of the exploit in the game. The economy would have been severely ruined and would have taken months or years to heal, if it did at all. Furthermore, if the damage done by the exploit caused people to start leaving the game, the decision to perform a rollback may have become inevitable, but it would be a rollback of several days or weeks, not just a few hours and would have caused yet more people to simply quit. This decision is nothing but delaying the inevitable and would have lead to a slow downward spiral for the game.
With these as the only other realistic options available after the damage had been done, an immediate rollback becomes the best decision possible under the circumstances. Players only lose a little progress, a handful may leave and a lot may complain, but most of the complainers will still come back to the game, and the damage done from before the rollback is minor enough to be considered negligible in the long run. A rollback is still nothing to be happy about, but it's the best one of the options available during a worst-case scenario such as this and the inevitable 'we're sorry for the inconvenience' package coming later this week helps to take the sting away.
I transferred 2000 Zen to my account prior to the servers coming down (I was unaware of the exploit). When I check my account I have a 0 balance but I have not even logged into the game since yesterday. I assumed I had to re-transfer my Zen but no I have 0 Zen. Please fix this, I would like to have the Zen I actually paid for.
I too purchased zen and had transferred it. when you log into game it should be there.
I appreciate all of you who are giving them a thumbs up, but I was on for 10 minutes yesterday, I exploited nothing and I woke up today to find myself banned. I have sent in about 10 tickets and emails to their support, contacted them on twitter and got nothing.
You want to talk about false positives and dropping the ball, this is a good example. I spent 200 on the founders pack and over 1000 in ZEN and this is how I'm treated? I can't imagine what the free users would be treated like.
As I haven't contributed to the coffers as of yet... They are treating me fine. Sorry you got Banned and if you are in the right, I do hope you get your primary account back.
My unfortunate circumstance is that my internet time has severely been cut short. I invested all the time I had yesterday into playing and got my character up to about level 36. I log on about 20 minutes ago to find I'm level 30 and I'm an entire zone back from where I logged out. This is just depressing. I understand that It needed to be done but god **** it this pisses me off as I didn't even know about the bug until I read about it in the zone chat after I logged on. I feel like my entire day yesterday was completely wasted.
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necronomniconMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Why this wasn't done with every other exploit I have no idea.. your team labels it as a beta and treats it as live. There is a massive list of exploits that have been going on during this "beta". It is about time you actually take the servers offline and fix something rather than turning your cheek, so you can continue to cash in from the zen shop, but the in game economy goes to hell. Epic set pieces selling for 5k AD's is just plain stupid, but thanks for not addressing that.
the early bird exploiters maintaining their mule accounts with their hundreds of millions or billions of AD helps them when more suckers have to buy more zen with USD because of the borked economy and the potential to manipulate the market at will with the massive hoarding on the mule accounts of the early bird exploiters. craptic benefits from this by making more money in the end than they had planned, or perhaps Had planned for all we know. (I saw a screenshot with a support ticket dated 16 days about this issue).
This is what we get with cash shops instead of good old fashioned everyone pays the same amount unless they multi-account play and multi-boxers still pay the same amount subscription days. free to play is a scam unless you're a cheater or social engineer, plain and simple.
So farewell hope, and with hope farewell fear,
Farewell remorse; all good to me is lost.
Evil, be thou my good.
This has been a REPORTED PROBLEM long before May 19, 2013 (MANY PEOPLE have submited tickets to you all and you've blown them off and closed them) Lots of us have screen shots of these tickets that were submited as the users where kind enough to post
them online for all to see that NOTHING WAS DONE.
The people that were doing this have been doing this LONG BEFORE THIS DATE. It really just blew up yesterday and the ecomony really tanked as of yesterday. But that doesn't add to the fact that the other 3 or 4 major exploits you all (BLEW OFF) didn't add to it. Why not just admit fault and do a wipe of the servers that a lot of us want? your not fixing the problem here your just HAMSTER over all of us that didn't jump on this bug when it was first leaked in APHA and you all didn't close it than.
Many people jumped on this soon as launch hit and the horse has already left the gate. I don't know what you think you have fixed by rolling it back a few hours? maybe you put a few bucks back in your Wallets and thats all that really matters to you all I guess.
There have been a lot of reports of similar tickets on this exploit being quietly closed or reported as "lost" over the past few months. Because this exploit can ultimately lead to AD sales and gaining real-world money, and because of the questionable way support has been "handling" these tickets, it is difficult not to suspect that people within Cryptic/PW were not quietly benefiting from this bug while attempting to suppress any player ticket submissions before they reached the core development team.
If I were Cryptic/PW, I would be launching an internal RMT investigation right about now, because either something very shady was going on within your own company, or the people who kept closing/losing these exploit tickets for the past several months are just utterly incompetent at their jobs.
So, which is it? I'm not trying to be rude here, but when there have been multiple ticket submissions on this exploit in the past and all of them seem to die upon reaching customer support, how can anyone not wonder what exactly has been going on over there? Either they're not doing their job or they've been running an RMT operation on the side. Figure it out.
I appreciate all of you who are giving them a thumbs up, but I was on for 10 minutes yesterday, I exploited nothing and I woke up today to find myself banned. I have sent in about 10 tickets and emails to their support, contacted them on twitter and got nothing.
You want to talk about false positives and dropping the ball, this is a good example. I spent 200 on the founders pack and over 1000 in ZEN and this is how I'm treated? I can't imagine what the free users would be treated like.
get your money back lol. Where is anonymous when we need them? I dreampt last night they came and did an actual fix, no more mules packed with goodies, and everyone on alevel playing field. That was a sweet dream, but in reality I bet a few of the exploiters were some of them haha.
So farewell hope, and with hope farewell fear,
Farewell remorse; all good to me is lost.
Evil, be thou my good.
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necronomniconMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
F2P Is a different business model idiot.... Subscription games have a bigger cheating problem .... WoW was the most botted game of all time.....
When WoW was released, the game was very secure and bots were banned within hours. It has been out for almost 10 years now and the only way to keep people playing has been to make the game so easy any skilled MMO player left a long time ago for other challenges.
If you want to be fair to any game when comparing it to WoW, you have to compare it to Vanilla WoW, not expansion number 5 or whatever that game is up to now.
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necronomniconMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
There have been a lot of reports of similar tickets on this exploit being quietly closed or reported as "lost" over the past few months. Because this exploit can ultimately lead to AD sales and gaining real-world money, and because of the questionable way support has been "handling" these tickets, it is difficult not to suspect that people within Cryptic/PW were not quietly benefiting from this bug while attempting to suppress any player ticket submissions before they reached the core development team.
If I were Cryptic/PW, I would be launching an internal RMT investigation right about now, because either something very shady was going on within your own company, or the people who kept closing/losing these exploit tickets for the past several months are just utterly incompetent at their jobs.
So, which is it? I'm not trying to be rude here, but when there have been multiple ticket submissions on this exploit in the past and all of them seem to die upon reaching customer support, how can anyone not wonder what exactly has been going on over there? Either they're not doing their job or they've been running an RMT operation on the side. Figure it out.
we're speaking about a chinese company I think? So I'm going with running an operation on the side exploiting this to their own gain as well. people should just take their money back and show them that this is not tolerable.
So farewell hope, and with hope farewell fear,
Farewell remorse; all good to me is lost.
Evil, be thou my good.
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staireaterMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 4Arc User
I bought Zen to sell it on the zen market because prices were so high. If you are taking away the AD I traded them for, I would like a refund as I would not have bought that zen.
This is so entitled and insane, hahaha.
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goatrothMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
I don't know if this has been answered yet, and I'm not about to dig through 124 pages to find out, but what happened to the mail? I sold an item in the auction house a day or two before this whole incident happened, and now the diamonds are missing from the mail. The letter stating I sold the item is still there, but the diamonds are not. I also redeemed a key for the Alienware promotion, and am missing items from that mail as well.
The items simply aren't attached to the mail I received. Where are they?
With these as the only other realistic options available after the damage had been done, an immediate rollback becomes the best decision possible under the circumstances. Players only lose a little progress, a handful may leave and a lot may complain, but most of the complainers will still come back to the game, and the damage done from before the rollback is minor enough to be considered negligible in the long run. A rollback is still nothing to be happy about, but it's the best one of the options available during a worst-case scenario such as this and the inevitable 'we're sorry for the inconvenience' package coming later this week helps to take the sting away.
Finally someone who isn't a complete idoit that just says Wiping the servers to day one is the best idea just because they don't mind.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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myxlplykMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 25Arc User
edited May 2013
OK, I see I was rolled back around 4 levels I gained yesterday. I can accept that. But I notice that my quest progress WASN'T rolled back. Meaning the two zones I made those levels in I can't go re-do those quests to re-gain the experience. How is that going to be fixed? (And no I don't plan on reading 124 pages of comments and inane arguments in this thread to hope someone has mentioned it, it wasn't in the first post, so I'm asking here. Update the first post please)
I'm sorry for the stressful times devs and ladydevs (are there any?), this must really suck. Hang on and keep up the good work.
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mnemoniakMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited May 2013
People have to keep in mind that this is still BETA. For those who spent real money on this game, you will be refunded as PW stated. For the rest, stop whining.
What about those who attended Dungeon Delves? for seven hours I played about 5 DD's and luckily got all the expensive Epic t2 Cleric items (such as helms and armors), will this consider a goodbye for us? I know it's too much to ask but I played it with my all.
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exile17Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Well too bad sir you just lost one count it "one" week of it that's it.How many day's are there in twelve months again?You are complaining about just one week?
Thanks for the hard work you guys have done and all the updates you've done to keep us informed. I lost all my celestial coins, but I'm totally cool with getting stuff at the end of the week. Looking forward to the box o'free stuff!
What about those who attended Dungeon Delves? for seven hours I played about 5 DD's and luckily got all the expensive Epic t2 Cleric items (such as helms and armors), will this consider a goodbye for us? I know it's too much to ask but I played it with my all.
You're either exaggerating, exploiting, or the luckiest player ever.
Use the <removed exploit lead-in> to interact with the auction vendor.
Actually he has a very valid point. He bought Zen to trade for AD because the exchange rate was favorable. If the exchange rate is no longer favorable and he is stuck with Zen that he no longer wishes to spend, then shouldn't he be entitled to a refund? The developers allowed a market condition to be created, whether intentional or not and sold him in game currency predicated on that false condition.
Comments
I would appreciate one mailed to @necronomnicon please.
I would feel less cheated if I at least got one of the cats hoarded out of this.
-Sincerely, Sucker
Farewell remorse; all good to me is lost.
Evil, be thou my good.
You want to talk about false positives and dropping the ball, this is a good example. I spent 200 on the founders pack and over 1000 in ZEN and this is how I'm treated? I can't imagine what the free users would be treated like.
1) A Complete Wipe - This is for all intents and purposes a death sentence for the game. Launch week is the moment which will often make or break a game (yes, it's 'open beta', but when a game has no future wipes planned, a working cash shop, content up to and at endgame, and is entirely open for anyone to download and play, it is for all intents and purposes 'launched') and a wipe shortly after launch week celebrations would have been both horrible publicity (far more so than a rollback) and would have lead to many, many players simply not returning either out of frustration at having lost so much progress or out of fear of future wipes. What's more, even though the exploit existed it did not have a major impact upon the economy until recently and any impact it may have had will have all but vanished in the long term; there is no reason to use a sledgehammer when a flyswatter will suffice.
2) Fix on a Case-by-Case Basis - Also a death sentence for the game. Performing no rollback at all would mean millions upon millions of astral diamonds still very much affecting all levels of the economy. Prices would have escalated and a thick barrier of entry would have formed for any new players. What's more, 'fixing' the issue on a case-by-case basis would have taken weeks, if not months, to perform and valuable development time would have been wasted. Furthermore, this would have likely lead to people who had unknowingly acquired some form of currency or items from those who abused this exploit suddenly finding that a big chunk of their money or some of their items simply disappeared. This is time-consuming, messy, and a big blow to the in-game economy.
3) Only Fix the Exploit and Ban Exploiters - This is possibly the worst decision of all as it leaves the impact of the exploit in the game. The economy would have been severely ruined and would have taken months or years to heal, if it did at all. Furthermore, if the damage done by the exploit caused people to start leaving the game, the decision to perform a rollback may have become inevitable, but it would be a rollback of several days or weeks, not just a few hours and would have caused yet more people to simply quit. This decision is nothing but delaying the inevitable and would have lead to a slow downward spiral for the game.
With these as the only other realistic options available after the damage had been done, an immediate rollback becomes the best decision possible under the circumstances. Players only lose a little progress, a handful may leave and a lot may complain, but most of the complainers will still come back to the game, and the damage done from before the rollback is minor enough to be considered negligible in the long run. A rollback is still nothing to be happy about, but it's the best one of the options available during a worst-case scenario such as this and the inevitable 'we're sorry for the inconvenience' package coming later this week helps to take the sting away.
650-590-7700 is the PWE number.
Call this number and tell them you got dropped from a call with support. See if they will transfer the call.
I too purchased zen and had transferred it. when you log into game it should be there.
Character handle:@skylia120410
(www.gwfnw.weebly.com)
GWF GUIDE SITE: Still being worked on not 60 yet
Divine Misfits (one of the Guild Leaders)(Guild Site Manager)
www.divinemisfits.guildlaunch.com
the early bird exploiters maintaining their mule accounts with their hundreds of millions or billions of AD helps them when more suckers have to buy more zen with USD because of the borked economy and the potential to manipulate the market at will with the massive hoarding on the mule accounts of the early bird exploiters. craptic benefits from this by making more money in the end than they had planned, or perhaps Had planned for all we know. (I saw a screenshot with a support ticket dated 16 days about this issue).
http://s17.postimg.org/tu8qd0cyn/lolfail.jpg
This is what we get with cash shops instead of good old fashioned everyone pays the same amount unless they multi-account play and multi-boxers still pay the same amount subscription days. free to play is a scam unless you're a cheater or social engineer, plain and simple.
Farewell remorse; all good to me is lost.
Evil, be thou my good.
There have been a lot of reports of similar tickets on this exploit being quietly closed or reported as "lost" over the past few months. Because this exploit can ultimately lead to AD sales and gaining real-world money, and because of the questionable way support has been "handling" these tickets, it is difficult not to suspect that people within Cryptic/PW were not quietly benefiting from this bug while attempting to suppress any player ticket submissions before they reached the core development team.
If I were Cryptic/PW, I would be launching an internal RMT investigation right about now, because either something very shady was going on within your own company, or the people who kept closing/losing these exploit tickets for the past several months are just utterly incompetent at their jobs.
So, which is it? I'm not trying to be rude here, but when there have been multiple ticket submissions on this exploit in the past and all of them seem to die upon reaching customer support, how can anyone not wonder what exactly has been going on over there? Either they're not doing their job or they've been running an RMT operation on the side. Figure it out.
F2P Is a different business model idiot.... Subscription games have a bigger cheating problem .... WoW was the most botted game of all time.....
get your money back lol. Where is anonymous when we need them? I dreampt last night they came and did an actual fix, no more mules packed with goodies, and everyone on alevel playing field. That was a sweet dream, but in reality I bet a few of the exploiters were some of them haha.
Farewell remorse; all good to me is lost.
Evil, be thou my good.
^ exploiter, with many packed mules afraid of losing them in a wipe
Farewell remorse; all good to me is lost.
Evil, be thou my good.
When WoW was released, the game was very secure and bots were banned within hours. It has been out for almost 10 years now and the only way to keep people playing has been to make the game so easy any skilled MMO player left a long time ago for other challenges.
If you want to be fair to any game when comparing it to WoW, you have to compare it to Vanilla WoW, not expansion number 5 or whatever that game is up to now.
we're speaking about a chinese company I think? So I'm going with running an operation on the side exploiting this to their own gain as well. people should just take their money back and show them that this is not tolerable.
Farewell remorse; all good to me is lost.
Evil, be thou my good.
This is so entitled and insane, hahaha.
The items simply aren't attached to the mail I received. Where are they?
My elusive TR armor
With honest AD, I even spent more than a half than I had (already a few) to get it
Finally someone who isn't a complete idoit that just says Wiping the servers to day one is the best idea just because they don't mind.
Well too bad sir you just lost one count it "one" week of it that's it.How many day's are there in twelve months again?You are complaining about just one week?
You're either exaggerating, exploiting, or the luckiest player ever.
Actually he has a very valid point. He bought Zen to trade for AD because the exchange rate was favorable. If the exchange rate is no longer favorable and he is stuck with Zen that he no longer wishes to spend, then shouldn't he be entitled to a refund? The developers allowed a market condition to be created, whether intentional or not and sold him in game currency predicated on that false condition.