Q: Celestial Coins were lost as a result of the downtime? What will be done about this?
A: We understand that this is a concern and we are aware of the feedback. Though we may not be able to provide replacement Celestial coins, we are certainly looking into it. As we cannot guarantee replacements, we are ensuring we shortly deliver a robust thank-you pack.
This is complete bull. So your saying in 250 days when you mess up again and I'm only 100 days away from the epic healer that I will lose all my coins due to one of your unscheduled down times. Oh but wait you will make up for it by giving me a care package. Give me a break. Keep your stinking package and give me my coins back. A Rollback is a rollback is a rollback. If you roll me back to 5:20 am yesterday I will have 8 coins..... not 0 as I have now. **** this.
this is what im most upset about. IDK about anything else i lost. but these coins. ya, its a time.. thing..
I agree. and personally they should not erase them , if they/server is down and ur unable to log on, cause of them!.. they should be able to look prior to the roll back, and set coins correctly. IMO
"Drive it like u stole it"
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merlin420idMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Q: Celestial Coins were lost as a result of the downtime? What will be done about this?
A: We understand that this is a concern and we are aware of the feedback. Though we may not be able to provide replacement Celestial coins, we are certainly looking into it. As we cannot guarantee replacements, we are ensuring we shortly deliver a robust thank-you pack.
This is complete bull. So your saying in 250 days when you mess up again and I'm only 100 days away from the epic healer that I will lose all my coins due to one of your unscheduled down times. Oh but wait you will make up for it by giving me a care package. Give me a break. Keep your stinking package and give me my coins back. A Rollback is a rollback is a rollback. If you roll me back to 5:20 am yesterday I will have 8 coins..... not 0 as I have now. **** this.
Hi!
I know you've kind of addressed this, but how can we say that stuff that happened more than 7 hours ago was insignificant when all the zen on the market was completely bought out on Saturday morning just the same as it was on Sunday morning. At this point, I'd really like a cash refund for all the zen I've purchased in this game, including the cost of my founder's pack. There is no way to ever restore anything resembling integrity to the game or its economy. This is why most companies treat beta as beta and wipe clean at launch.
Krevdar
0
cyberkatMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
So basically you're saying that instead of doing that from the beggining, you wiped the progress of the players during a WEEKEND day (aka one of the times there will be more people playing) just to appease the bunch of idiots who spend their days playing this <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> and have been crying for a wipe for days.
To appease those you ruin 7h of gametime (which on Europe coincide with what's probably peak game hours (which is from 1pm to 8pm) on weekends) and you plan to make it up with a pack if random thrown items? Good job, seriously i was hoping that after years publishing games in the western market PWE would have learned something... Guess not.
And for those jubilant idiots, here's a hint, they erased 7h of your gametime for NOTHING!! What they accomplished here would be accomplished by the aforementioned log reviews, but without the innocent flak. So yeah, good job PWE. Keep it up. The competition thanks you.
What makes you think PWE accomplished nothing with a 7hr rollback? Looks to me like they reversed some of the effects of a rampant few exploiters. PWE will/can not roll back further because the game is in open public beta with real financial transactions taking place. Further accomplishment is that the markets are closed while they fix the exploits. So are they accomplishing nothing as you say? I think not.
Now on to you and all the other whiners bawling about a rollback...
We are in open beta. You know what the word betameans?
1. Because it is open beta, there won't be any full wipes - not even when the game is released.
No smart game company that puts out a game would do that on a full public beta. Those of us who were on closed beta expected wipes to happen as the game development happened. Open beta means the game company feels the game is stable enough to not require full wipes.
2. Because it is an open beta, you had better to expect to see server outages, exploit fixes, component disablement and yes... system rollbacks (personally I am very pleased they actually can do that).
Everything just sort of a full wipe is fair and as a beta tester, you need to accept and deal with it when it happens. It is all part of testing the product and making sure it is solid before it is released. That's right, this game has not been released yet!
When you agreed to create and use an account during beta testing, you accepted these conditions just like the rest of us.
So suck it up and stop freaking whining about it! You don't want to deal with bugs, server outages and extended fix testing, wait til the game is released before playing.
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jukejointjezebelMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
What I fail to understand is why the roll-backs even happened. This is beta after all. If people exploited something, and got a few things from that, temp ban those accounts, put them on a watch list, fix the issue and move on. None of it really matters since when the game goes live, we'll all have to start over anyway.
On that same note, why complain if the developers did a roll-back. As <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> as that course of actions was, it still does not matter since, like I already said, when the game goes live, we all start over.
Overall, this has been a pretty good open beta. I have been in many beta's myself, and for a FTP, this one is doing better than most PTP games in a long time. Yeah, there is the occasional glitch here and there, like mercs running through walls to attack mobs you cannot get to, or try to attack the traps in the floors (this one really makes me laugh) and mobs just dropping through ceilings to get to you, but OVERALL, this has been a pretty good beta.
No, we won't have to start over again.
PW has been saying from the beginning that there will -not- be a total wipe.
Kudos to the team for making a (somewhat) unpopular but (hopefully) successful choice. I've been through something similar (but smaller scale) when working on another MMO, and it's not an easy thing to come out here and tell your fans and customers that you (effectively) "lost" some of their time and stuff due to what now seems like a bug "only a **** programmer would code".
- For those complaining about their lost progress... stop it, please. In the long run, 7 hours of progress will be considered trivial, just give it time. The only people who have a real beef about this are those who hit the lottery on Nightmare boxes during the time period, and I'm pretty sure NW will make it up to them.
- There are no bugs that "only a **** programmer would make"... or at least they exist everywhere. Trivial things (now) such as buffer length checking, etc. are only trivial now because some huge company released product with them in it, and had it exploited (Microsoft, Netscape, etc).
- "They could fix this without a rollback".... maybe, but probably not as completely, and it would certainly take a LOT more effort and probably a lot more CS time dealing with individual cases. At some point, you have to make a decision and, if this ends up "fixing" the economy with only a 7-hour rollback? Well, as I said, not that big a price to pay for 99% of the players.
I still plan to play. This kind of action by the devs actually gives me a better feeling for how the devs will react to future exploits (with necessary, if unpopular, action), and hope for a longer run as a viable game.
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uchicaitachiMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 6Arc User
edited May 2013
I have one question I had some Zen up for sale which were sold at some point (don't know the exact time) but since the exchange is down i cant claim my AD back.. So what will happened with that AD will they be lost ?? (its was like 440k or something so its kind of important). I am pretty sure someone must have asked that before me but its like 100 pages before me so i can't read all of them. Sorry for that.
Q: Celestial Coins were lost as a result of the downtime? What will be done about this?
.
They said CELESTIAL coins, not ARDENT coins. Celestials are the ones that vanish after 29 hours without an Invoke, and have a limit of seven. The ones you are talking about are Ardents, which have no apparent limit, and do NOT vanish if you fail to Invoke.
Q: Celestial Coins were lost as a result of the downtime? What will be done about this?
A: We understand that this is a concern and we are aware of the feedback. Though we may not be able to provide replacement Celestial coins, we are certainly looking into it. As we cannot guarantee replacements, we are ensuring we shortly deliver a robust thank-you pack.
This is complete bull. So your saying in 250 days when you mess up again and I'm only 100 days away from the epic healer that I will lose all my coins due to one of your unscheduled down times. Oh but wait you will make up for it by giving me a care package. Give me a break. Keep your stinking package and give me my coins back. A Rollback is a rollback is a rollback. If you roll me back to 5:20 am yesterday I will have 8 coins..... not 0 as I have now. **** this.
You are mixing up the 2 coins. Ardent coins are the one you buy the healer with and they do not disappear. Celestial coins disappear but you can only have a max of 7.
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amielhipolitoMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 6Arc User
edited May 2013
QQ: Missing a few astral diamonds which I earned from AH sales (which I collected already). If I do understand this correct, the items I supposedly posted in AH will be restored correct?
My husband and I have been following this event closely (like thousands of other players). We are posting to thank all the people at PWE and Cryptic for their continued efforts. Rollbacks and wipes can be 'scary' especially for players new to MMO's. I think the Game (including developers, management and players) has come through with flying colors. I would like to especially commend the NWN official posters who exhibited patience and compassion in all their posts.
Well done, Team Neverwinter!
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necronomniconMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I appreciate all of you who are giving them a thumbs up, but I was on for 10 minutes yesterday, I exploited nothing and I woke up today to find myself banned. I have sent in about 10 tickets and emails to their support, contacted them on twitter and got nothing.
You want to talk about false positives and dropping the ball, this is a good example. I spent 200 on the founders pack and over 1000 in ZEN and this is how I'm treated? I can't imagine what the free users would be treated like.
Support site is offline. Please provide a Contact phone # for support.
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ashericMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
I definitely agree with this decision. While it's certainly a terrible thing that such an exploit happened at all, a minor rollback performed shortly after the incident was undoubtedly the best option to a terrible scenario. While I do feel that anyone pointing out that the exploit was known about beforehand and should have been fixed sooner is certainly justified in their accusations, overlooking the exploit was a mistake which had already been made and in terms of choices available for the here-and-now this was the best one. To clarify my thoughts on the matter, I'll analyze what I believe the available choices were:
1) A Complete Wipe - This is for all intents and purposes a death sentence for the game. Launch week is the moment which will often make or break a game (yes, it's 'open beta', but when a game has no future wipes planned, a working cash shop, content up to and at endgame, and is entirely open for anyone to download and play, it is for all intents and purposes 'launched') and a wipe shortly after launch week celebrations would have been both horrible publicity (far more so than a rollback) and would have lead to many, many players simply not returning either out of frustration at having lost so much progress or out of fear of future wipes. What's more, even though the exploit existed it did not have a major impact upon the economy until recently and any impact it may have had will have all but vanished in the long term; there is no reason to use a sledgehammer when a flyswatter will suffice.
2) Fix on a Case-by-Case Basis - Also a death sentence for the game. Performing no rollback at all would mean millions upon millions of astral diamonds still very much affecting all levels of the economy. Prices would have escalated and a thick barrier of entry would have formed for any new players. What's more, 'fixing' the issue on a case-by-case basis would have taken weeks, if not months, to perform and valuable development time would have been wasted. Furthermore, this would have likely lead to people who had unknowingly acquired some form of currency or items from those who abused this exploit suddenly finding that a big chunk of their money or some of their items simply disappeared. This is time-consuming, messy, and a big blow to the in-game economy.
3) Only Fix the Exploit and Ban Exploiters - This is possibly the worst decision of all as it leaves the impact of the exploit in the game. The economy would have been severely ruined and would have taken months or years to heal, if it did at all. Furthermore, if the damage done by the exploit caused people to start leaving the game, the decision to perform a rollback may have become inevitable, but it would be a rollback of several days or weeks, not just a few hours and would have caused yet more people to simply quit. This decision is nothing but delaying the inevitable and would have lead to a slow downward spiral for the game.
With these as the only other realistic options available after the damage had been done, an immediate rollback becomes the best decision possible under the circumstances. Players only lose a little progress, a handful may leave and a lot may complain, but most of the complainers will still come back to the game, and the damage done from before the rollback is minor enough to be considered negligible in the long run. A rollback is still nothing to be happy about, but it's the best one of the options available during a worst-case scenario such as this and the inevitable 'we're sorry for the inconvenience' package coming later this week helps to take the sting away.
I transferred 2000 Zen to my account prior to the servers coming down (I was unaware of the exploit). When I check my account I have a 0 balance but I have not even logged into the game since yesterday. I assumed I had to re-transfer my Zen but no I have 0 Zen. Please fix this, I would like to have the Zen I actually paid for.
I too purchased zen and had transferred it. when you log into game it should be there.
I appreciate all of you who are giving them a thumbs up, but I was on for 10 minutes yesterday, I exploited nothing and I woke up today to find myself banned. I have sent in about 10 tickets and emails to their support, contacted them on twitter and got nothing.
You want to talk about false positives and dropping the ball, this is a good example. I spent 200 on the founders pack and over 1000 in ZEN and this is how I'm treated? I can't imagine what the free users would be treated like.
As I haven't contributed to the coffers as of yet... They are treating me fine. Sorry you got Banned and if you are in the right, I do hope you get your primary account back.
My unfortunate circumstance is that my internet time has severely been cut short. I invested all the time I had yesterday into playing and got my character up to about level 36. I log on about 20 minutes ago to find I'm level 30 and I'm an entire zone back from where I logged out. This is just depressing. I understand that It needed to be done but god **** it this pisses me off as I didn't even know about the bug until I read about it in the zone chat after I logged on. I feel like my entire day yesterday was completely wasted.
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necronomniconMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Why this wasn't done with every other exploit I have no idea.. your team labels it as a beta and treats it as live. There is a massive list of exploits that have been going on during this "beta". It is about time you actually take the servers offline and fix something rather than turning your cheek, so you can continue to cash in from the zen shop, but the in game economy goes to hell. Epic set pieces selling for 5k AD's is just plain stupid, but thanks for not addressing that.
the early bird exploiters maintaining their mule accounts with their hundreds of millions or billions of AD helps them when more suckers have to buy more zen with USD because of the borked economy and the potential to manipulate the market at will with the massive hoarding on the mule accounts of the early bird exploiters. craptic benefits from this by making more money in the end than they had planned, or perhaps Had planned for all we know. (I saw a screenshot with a support ticket dated 16 days about this issue).
This is what we get with cash shops instead of good old fashioned everyone pays the same amount unless they multi-account play and multi-boxers still pay the same amount subscription days. free to play is a scam unless you're a cheater or social engineer, plain and simple.
So farewell hope, and with hope farewell fear,
Farewell remorse; all good to me is lost.
Evil, be thou my good.
This has been a REPORTED PROBLEM long before May 19, 2013 (MANY PEOPLE have submited tickets to you all and you've blown them off and closed them) Lots of us have screen shots of these tickets that were submited as the users where kind enough to post
them online for all to see that NOTHING WAS DONE.
The people that were doing this have been doing this LONG BEFORE THIS DATE. It really just blew up yesterday and the ecomony really tanked as of yesterday. But that doesn't add to the fact that the other 3 or 4 major exploits you all (BLEW OFF) didn't add to it. Why not just admit fault and do a wipe of the servers that a lot of us want? your not fixing the problem here your just <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> over all of us that didn't jump on this bug when it was first leaked in APHA and you all didn't close it than.
Many people jumped on this soon as launch hit and the horse has already left the gate. I don't know what you think you have fixed by rolling it back a few hours? maybe you put a few bucks back in your Wallets and thats all that really matters to you all I guess.
There have been a lot of reports of similar tickets on this exploit being quietly closed or reported as "lost" over the past few months. Because this exploit can ultimately lead to AD sales and gaining real-world money, and because of the questionable way support has been "handling" these tickets, it is difficult not to suspect that people within Cryptic/PW were not quietly benefiting from this bug while attempting to suppress any player ticket submissions before they reached the core development team.
If I were Cryptic/PW, I would be launching an internal RMT investigation right about now, because either something very shady was going on within your own company, or the people who kept closing/losing these exploit tickets for the past several months are just utterly incompetent at their jobs.
So, which is it? I'm not trying to be rude here, but when there have been multiple ticket submissions on this exploit in the past and all of them seem to die upon reaching customer support, how can anyone not wonder what exactly has been going on over there? Either they're not doing their job or they've been running an RMT operation on the side. Figure it out.
Comments
this is what im most upset about. IDK about anything else i lost. but these coins. ya, its a time.. thing..
I agree. and personally they should not erase them , if they/server is down and ur unable to log on, cause of them!.. they should be able to look prior to the roll back, and set coins correctly. IMO
Yup, bend over and take it son!
I know you've kind of addressed this, but how can we say that stuff that happened more than 7 hours ago was insignificant when all the zen on the market was completely bought out on Saturday morning just the same as it was on Sunday morning. At this point, I'd really like a cash refund for all the zen I've purchased in this game, including the cost of my founder's pack. There is no way to ever restore anything resembling integrity to the game or its economy. This is why most companies treat beta as beta and wipe clean at launch.
Krevdar
What makes you think PWE accomplished nothing with a 7hr rollback? Looks to me like they reversed some of the effects of a rampant few exploiters. PWE will/can not roll back further because the game is in open public beta with real financial transactions taking place. Further accomplishment is that the markets are closed while they fix the exploits. So are they accomplishing nothing as you say? I think not.
Now on to you and all the other whiners bawling about a rollback...
We are in open beta. You know what the word beta means?
1. Because it is open beta, there won't be any full wipes - not even when the game is released.
No smart game company that puts out a game would do that on a full public beta. Those of us who were on closed beta expected wipes to happen as the game development happened. Open beta means the game company feels the game is stable enough to not require full wipes.
2. Because it is an open beta, you had better to expect to see server outages, exploit fixes, component disablement and yes... system rollbacks (personally I am very pleased they actually can do that).
Everything just sort of a full wipe is fair and as a beta tester, you need to accept and deal with it when it happens. It is all part of testing the product and making sure it is solid before it is released. That's right, this game has not been released yet!
When you agreed to create and use an account during beta testing, you accepted these conditions just like the rest of us.
So suck it up and stop freaking whining about it! You don't want to deal with bugs, server outages and extended fix testing, wait til the game is released before playing.
No, we won't have to start over again.
PW has been saying from the beginning that there will -not- be a total wipe.
- For those complaining about their lost progress... stop it, please. In the long run, 7 hours of progress will be considered trivial, just give it time. The only people who have a real beef about this are those who hit the lottery on Nightmare boxes during the time period, and I'm pretty sure NW will make it up to them.
- There are no bugs that "only a **** programmer would make"... or at least they exist everywhere. Trivial things (now) such as buffer length checking, etc. are only trivial now because some huge company released product with them in it, and had it exploited (Microsoft, Netscape, etc).
- "They could fix this without a rollback".... maybe, but probably not as completely, and it would certainly take a LOT more effort and probably a lot more CS time dealing with individual cases. At some point, you have to make a decision and, if this ends up "fixing" the economy with only a 7-hour rollback? Well, as I said, not that big a price to pay for 99% of the players.
I still plan to play. This kind of action by the devs actually gives me a better feeling for how the devs will react to future exploits (with necessary, if unpopular, action), and hope for a longer run as a viable game.
Thank you in advance
You are mixing up the 2 coins. Ardent coins are the one you buy the healer with and they do not disappear. Celestial coins disappear but you can only have a max of 7.
Well done, Team Neverwinter!
enjoy your mules
-Sincerely, Sucker
Farewell remorse; all good to me is lost.
Evil, be thou my good.
I would appreciate one mailed to @necronomnicon please.
I would feel less cheated if I at least got one of the cats hoarded out of this.
-Sincerely, Sucker
Farewell remorse; all good to me is lost.
Evil, be thou my good.
You want to talk about false positives and dropping the ball, this is a good example. I spent 200 on the founders pack and over 1000 in ZEN and this is how I'm treated? I can't imagine what the free users would be treated like.
1) A Complete Wipe - This is for all intents and purposes a death sentence for the game. Launch week is the moment which will often make or break a game (yes, it's 'open beta', but when a game has no future wipes planned, a working cash shop, content up to and at endgame, and is entirely open for anyone to download and play, it is for all intents and purposes 'launched') and a wipe shortly after launch week celebrations would have been both horrible publicity (far more so than a rollback) and would have lead to many, many players simply not returning either out of frustration at having lost so much progress or out of fear of future wipes. What's more, even though the exploit existed it did not have a major impact upon the economy until recently and any impact it may have had will have all but vanished in the long term; there is no reason to use a sledgehammer when a flyswatter will suffice.
2) Fix on a Case-by-Case Basis - Also a death sentence for the game. Performing no rollback at all would mean millions upon millions of astral diamonds still very much affecting all levels of the economy. Prices would have escalated and a thick barrier of entry would have formed for any new players. What's more, 'fixing' the issue on a case-by-case basis would have taken weeks, if not months, to perform and valuable development time would have been wasted. Furthermore, this would have likely lead to people who had unknowingly acquired some form of currency or items from those who abused this exploit suddenly finding that a big chunk of their money or some of their items simply disappeared. This is time-consuming, messy, and a big blow to the in-game economy.
3) Only Fix the Exploit and Ban Exploiters - This is possibly the worst decision of all as it leaves the impact of the exploit in the game. The economy would have been severely ruined and would have taken months or years to heal, if it did at all. Furthermore, if the damage done by the exploit caused people to start leaving the game, the decision to perform a rollback may have become inevitable, but it would be a rollback of several days or weeks, not just a few hours and would have caused yet more people to simply quit. This decision is nothing but delaying the inevitable and would have lead to a slow downward spiral for the game.
With these as the only other realistic options available after the damage had been done, an immediate rollback becomes the best decision possible under the circumstances. Players only lose a little progress, a handful may leave and a lot may complain, but most of the complainers will still come back to the game, and the damage done from before the rollback is minor enough to be considered negligible in the long run. A rollback is still nothing to be happy about, but it's the best one of the options available during a worst-case scenario such as this and the inevitable 'we're sorry for the inconvenience' package coming later this week helps to take the sting away.
650-590-7700 is the PWE number.
Call this number and tell them you got dropped from a call with support. See if they will transfer the call.
I too purchased zen and had transferred it. when you log into game it should be there.
Character handle:@skylia120410
(www.gwfnw.weebly.com)
GWF GUIDE SITE: Still being worked on not 60 yet
Divine Misfits (one of the Guild Leaders)(Guild Site Manager)
www.divinemisfits.guildlaunch.com
the early bird exploiters maintaining their mule accounts with their hundreds of millions or billions of AD helps them when more suckers have to buy more zen with USD because of the borked economy and the potential to manipulate the market at will with the massive hoarding on the mule accounts of the early bird exploiters. craptic benefits from this by making more money in the end than they had planned, or perhaps Had planned for all we know. (I saw a screenshot with a support ticket dated 16 days about this issue).
http://s17.postimg.org/tu8qd0cyn/lolfail.jpg
This is what we get with cash shops instead of good old fashioned everyone pays the same amount unless they multi-account play and multi-boxers still pay the same amount subscription days. free to play is a scam unless you're a cheater or social engineer, plain and simple.
Farewell remorse; all good to me is lost.
Evil, be thou my good.
There have been a lot of reports of similar tickets on this exploit being quietly closed or reported as "lost" over the past few months. Because this exploit can ultimately lead to AD sales and gaining real-world money, and because of the questionable way support has been "handling" these tickets, it is difficult not to suspect that people within Cryptic/PW were not quietly benefiting from this bug while attempting to suppress any player ticket submissions before they reached the core development team.
If I were Cryptic/PW, I would be launching an internal RMT investigation right about now, because either something very shady was going on within your own company, or the people who kept closing/losing these exploit tickets for the past several months are just utterly incompetent at their jobs.
So, which is it? I'm not trying to be rude here, but when there have been multiple ticket submissions on this exploit in the past and all of them seem to die upon reaching customer support, how can anyone not wonder what exactly has been going on over there? Either they're not doing their job or they've been running an RMT operation on the side. Figure it out.
F2P Is a different business model idiot.... Subscription games have a bigger cheating problem .... WoW was the most botted game of all time.....