That list is like a who's who of terrible publishers and cash grab monetizaion... lol
Exactly, putting a list of bads (companys) means nothing , other than other bads, following the original bads,bad price scheme is just bad. Bads will be bad in all forms of business and life in general.
You're still pushing an agenda. Which makes it very hard to take you seriously. No offense intended.
As for the other games who have worse pricing than NWO for respecs, that post is very relevant, because it highlights the absurdity of the price schemes of a LOT of BAD MMORPG's
That list is like a who's who of terrible publishers and cash grab monetizaion... lol
Depends on your definition of bad MMO. Yes, there's cash grab monetization, but it's proven to work, and it subsidizes the free players which help contribute to the whole MMO feel. Unlike subscription games, which often tends to rely on such monetization later anyway (because well, it's proven to work).
That list is like a who's who of terrible publishers and cash grab monetizaion... lol
Exactly, putting a list of bads (companys) means nothing , other than other bads, following the original bads,bad price scheme is just bad. Bads will be bad in all forms of business and life in general.
What folks seem to misunderstand, is that a bad publisher and bad monetization, doesn't mean a bad developer or game. The core game of a lot of Neverwinter: online is actually GREAT. The monetization and handling of the game by PWE, is frickin terrible. It creates a bit of a dilemma, aside from the skinner box garbage, I like and WANT to play NWO. But due to the PWE influence, I don't agree with what they ask in terms of pricing, or what they put a price tag on, regardless of wether or not I could no-life grind up some AD or exploit my way to it, or gouge other players for it... etc etc etc
Depends on your definition of bad MMO. Yes, there's cash grab monetization, but it's proven to work, and it subsidizes the free players which help contribute to the whole MMO feel. Unlike subscription games, which often tends to rely on such monetization later anyway (because well, it's proven to work).
It works, it's abusive and terrible and called "whaling" and in the end COSTS them players and gets them bad reputations, but it "works"
Very progressive thinking...
But I don't mean to insult just to make you hopefully think a bit, and really the one thing that should make you think is for me to simply ask you
"If this is the best we can expect, explain why league of legends is sh****ng money then and not resorting to this type of monetization"
In my humble and subjective opinion, the churn n burn mmo publishers that buy up these IP's and install cash grab aspects to them, are completely misreading their market and missing out. I wouldn't mind this, if only they didn't take such GREAT names down into the toilet with them,
DDO didn't do much for the Dungeons and Dragons name, and this again in my subjective opinion should have been a game that the real fans of the original could love with no underlying
"but's, and's or if's" even if it didn't fit perfectly into the style of the game and was more action orientated.
Well said, it is so hard to fathom why some people are so happy for having to pay $6 to respec or the overly high AD cost for feat respec. Being more reasonably priced would hurt no one, make the game a lot more accessable to WoW/GW2/Rift/Tera/WaR etc crowd who do expect respecs to be part of the game-cheaply.
That is the twisted mind of the fanboy. I can understand if someone simply doesn't care. But to actively work against one's own best interests by defending said practices and attempting to shut down all opposition. I wonder what goes through the head of someone like that.
These people have an unhealthy, misplaced affection for a company who answers to stockholders, who don't care one iota about the OP and people like them.
It's gotten to the point where companies don't even have to show up to defend themselves because the player base is divided between savvy consumers, and ignorant people who would rather defend a company they like no matter what, they actually think about what they are fighting against.
What folks seem to misunderstand, is that a bad publisher and bad monetization, doesn't mean a bad developer or game. The core game of a lot of Neverwinter: online is actually GREAT. The monetization and handling of the game by PWE, is frickin terrible. It creates a bit of a dilemma, aside from the skinner box garbage, I like and WANT to play NWO. But due to the PWE influence, I don't agree with what they ask in terms of pricing, or what they put a price tag on, regardless of wether or not I could no-life grind up some AD or exploit my way to it, or gouge other players for it... etc etc etc
It works, it's abusive and terrible and called "whaling" and in the end COSTS them players and gets them bad reputations, but it "works"
Very progressive thinking...
But I don't mean to insult just to make you hopefully think a bit, and really the one thing that should make you think is for me to simply ask you
"If this is the best we can expect, explain why league of legends is sh****ng money then and not resorting to this type of monetization"
In my humble and subjective opinion, the churn n burn mmo publishers that buy up these IP's and install cash grab aspects to them, are completely misreading their market and missing out. I wouldn't mind this, if only they didn't take such GREAT names down into the toilet with them,
DDO didn't do much for the Dungeons and Dragons name, and this again in my subjective opinion should have been a game that the real fans of the original could love with no underlying
"but's, and's or if's" even if it didn't fit perfectly into the style of the game and was more action orientated.
I do agree that the monetization could've been done a lot better, but I'm a programmer, not a market analyst. I'd note that P2W (which is an entirely different type of monetization from this instance) actually helps to mitigate the effects of the high zen cost, because it makes the option of farming for AD for respec more plausible. Regardless, yes, too expensive, and not suitable for this sort of IP.
I wish. You'd be surprised how sincere these people are. If they were being sarcastic, it would be less depressing.
I know...I try and offset the soul crushingly dreary truth with some levity and a healthy dose of suspicion that they're in fact just unoriginal trolls at times, but there ARE the odd poster that have a somewhat decent defense of some of the LESS questionable paradigms of monetization in this game, it's a shame half of them are in some sort of stockholme syndrom type daze and repeatedly and unquestionably defend practices that could be WAY better for everyone, I mean the actual attitudes are ATROCIOUS.
If it's not the immature responses it's the goto answers, I know for a fact in from passing in the forum you've come across them, the vapid, the downright silly and the dead end logic that really doesn't resolve anything
"If you don't like it don't play it"
"It's FREE what do you expect"
"other F2P mmo's charge more"
The straw man arguments
"Oh, so you don't want to pay 6 quid for a respec, clearly you want the game to be totally free and PWE and Cryptic to go out of business"
"Oh, so you think mounts are a bit pricey, clearly you can't afford them because you're an imbecile with a bad job"
(ad hominem of the irrelevant for flavor)
and then the plain ad hominem that clearly is a sad cry for attention ad lack of articulation and understanding of the topic.
I must say I'm guilty of some bad arguments or poorly worded posts, but usually that's because this forum, reading it at times is tiring and not because I'm straining my brain to understand, but to not repeatedly hammer my head off the desk or nearby masonry at the sheer lack of understanding and bad logic.
(exceptions to those that do make somewhat slightly compelling arguments, the few of you that do, are the reason this forum has ANY sort of discussion, thank you, you're actually appreciated for it)
I know...I try and offset the soul crushingly dreary truth with some levity and a healthy dose of suspicion that they're in fact just unoriginal trolls at times, but there ARE the odd poster that have a somewhat decent defense of some of the LESS questionable paradigms of monetization in this game, it's a shame half of them are in some sort of stockholme syndrom type daze and repeatedly and unquestionably defend practices that could be WAY better for everyone, I mean the actual attitudes are ATROCIOUS.
If it's not the immature responses it's the goto answers, I know for a fact in from passing in the forum you've come across them, the vapid, the downright silly and the dead end logic that really doesn't resolve anything
"If you don't like it don't play it"
"It's FREE what do you expect"
"other F2P mmo's charge more"
The straw man arguments
"Oh, so you don't want to pay 6 quid for a respec, clearly you want the game to be totally free and PWE and Cryptic to go out of business"
"Oh, so you think mounts are a bit pricey, clearly you can't afford them because you're an imbecile with a bad job"
(ad hominem of the irrelevant for flavor)
and then the plain ad hominem that clearly is a sad cry for attention ad lack of articulation and understanding of the topic.
I must say I'm guilty of some bad arguments or poorly worded posts, but usually that's because this forum, reading it at times is tiring and not because I'm straining my brain to understand, but to not repeatedly hammer my head off the desk or nearby masonry at the sheer lack of understanding and bad logic.
(exceptions to those that do make somewhat slightly compelling arguments, the few of you that do, are the reason this forum has ANY sort of discussion, thank you, you're actually appreciated for it)
Couldn't have said it better myself.
I wanna go back to being weird. I like being weird. Weird's all I got, oh, and my sweet style. -Maurice Moss, The IT Crowd
That is the twisted mind of the fanboy. I can understand if someone simply doesn't care. But to actively work against one's own best interests by defending said practices and attempting to shut down all opposition. I wonder what goes through the head of someone like that.
These people have an unhealthy, misplaced affection for a company who answers to stockholders, who don't care one iota about the OP and people like them.
It's gotten to the point where companies don't even have to show up to defend themselves because the player base is divided between savvy consumers, and ignorant people who would rather defend a company they like no matter what, they actually think about what they are fighting against.
Exactly, it would be comical if it wasn't so sad and it's because of these rabid fanboys that the genre is where it is today, and why publishers keep monetizing more and more. As long as the lemmings unquestioningly accept and pay, and attack anyone who speaks out against it, it won't change and our MMO genre will continue going downhill.
I do agree that the monetization could've been done a lot better, but I'm a programmer, not a market analyst. I'd note that P2W (which is an entirely different type of monetization from this instance) actually helps to mitigate the effects of the high zen cost, because it makes the option of farming for AD for respec more plausible. Regardless, yes, too expensive, and not suitable for this sort of IP.
You can't really argue against the monetization at all can ya? that's not a gloat or putting you down by the way, that's a sad recognition of it in truth. I mean you and I aren't highly drugged chimpanzee's either, but it's pretty obvious to even the aforementioned chimp that LoL doesn't gouge like a lot of these MMO's do, and it's printing cash to wipe it's rear with, it has it's share of whiners about class balances and that, but rarely if ever will you see a complaint about their cash shop, it's like...never a problem, and for all those that claim the forum is the place for the "few" to complain about things their "minority" want to "whinge" about... What does it say when their forum doesn't even HAVE anywhere NEAR the level of complaints about monetization. Folks just can't really fault them in that regard than as much as in this game.
Also, if you believe in the merits of a high zen cost making incessant grinding more attractive, well... I can't take that from you, but I would suggest you try and think about that for a bit. It was always my personal belief that in good game design, grinding, was something that shouldn't FEEL like grinding, not something you do ad tedium to avoid having to fork over large amounts of money.
I understand that it's not really your area of expertise, but if you walk into the gaming industry for example, as a developer or publisher and immediately disregard the notion of a game being about enjoying the game for it's thematic content and gameplay and instead make decisions based on how you have your players pay up or grind ad tedium, well I can't argue from a business point of view that you're wrong. But I can say you're probably going detract from the "game" part of your....erm.....game....
You are more than welcome, but there's no need to thank me, most of the time I'm probably more of a hinderance to discussions about these things than a help, due to understanding the issue all too well, seeing the problems and how it's really just an inability to adapt monetization practices, and then losing all will to really think before I type what has to be well over my two hundreth post on the matter, on yet another F2P game....about.....same......thing.....brain.................shutting......
As I said it's tiring facing down the SAME bad logic, and it's why I bring up those that CAN make some compelling arguments, they're so rare but it's good that they can sometimes help me to stop going overboard with the critique, sometimes you DO have to overlook the ugly flaws to see the good and accept them, Blood Omen/Soul Reaver being older titles were **** ugly graphically and heck the latter was not even a finished game... yet their voice acting, pacing and story where just....breathtaking and they ONLY GOT BETTER. I would NEVER defend them based on those merits though so you can in some way see why some folks defend this game only based on it's merits to them. Sadly when it comes to monetization, I can't see why they would then defend this game knowing it could be better for the game company as well as it's players.
Comments
Exactly, putting a list of bads (companys) means nothing , other than other bads, following the original bads,bad price scheme is just bad. Bads will be bad in all forms of business and life in general.
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
What folks seem to misunderstand, is that a bad publisher and bad monetization, doesn't mean a bad developer or game. The core game of a lot of Neverwinter: online is actually GREAT. The monetization and handling of the game by PWE, is frickin terrible. It creates a bit of a dilemma, aside from the skinner box garbage, I like and WANT to play NWO. But due to the PWE influence, I don't agree with what they ask in terms of pricing, or what they put a price tag on, regardless of wether or not I could no-life grind up some AD or exploit my way to it, or gouge other players for it... etc etc etc
It works, it's abusive and terrible and called "whaling" and in the end COSTS them players and gets them bad reputations, but it "works"
Very progressive thinking...
But I don't mean to insult just to make you hopefully think a bit, and really the one thing that should make you think is for me to simply ask you
"If this is the best we can expect, explain why league of legends is sh****ng money then and not resorting to this type of monetization"
In my humble and subjective opinion, the churn n burn mmo publishers that buy up these IP's and install cash grab aspects to them, are completely misreading their market and missing out. I wouldn't mind this, if only they didn't take such GREAT names down into the toilet with them,
DDO didn't do much for the Dungeons and Dragons name, and this again in my subjective opinion should have been a game that the real fans of the original could love with no underlying
"but's, and's or if's" even if it didn't fit perfectly into the style of the game and was more action orientated.
That is the twisted mind of the fanboy. I can understand if someone simply doesn't care. But to actively work against one's own best interests by defending said practices and attempting to shut down all opposition. I wonder what goes through the head of someone like that.
These people have an unhealthy, misplaced affection for a company who answers to stockholders, who don't care one iota about the OP and people like them.
It's gotten to the point where companies don't even have to show up to defend themselves because the player base is divided between savvy consumers, and ignorant people who would rather defend a company they like no matter what, they actually think about what they are fighting against.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sYp-eggD1Q
Usually?
"HAHAHAHAHAA I TROLE U"
May I name F2P games where respecs doesn't cost a dime?
I wish. You'd be surprised how sincere these people are. If they were being sarcastic, it would be less depressing.
I do agree that the monetization could've been done a lot better, but I'm a programmer, not a market analyst. I'd note that P2W (which is an entirely different type of monetization from this instance) actually helps to mitigate the effects of the high zen cost, because it makes the option of farming for AD for respec more plausible. Regardless, yes, too expensive, and not suitable for this sort of IP.
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
I know...I try and offset the soul crushingly dreary truth with some levity and a healthy dose of suspicion that they're in fact just unoriginal trolls at times, but there ARE the odd poster that have a somewhat decent defense of some of the LESS questionable paradigms of monetization in this game, it's a shame half of them are in some sort of stockholme syndrom type daze and repeatedly and unquestionably defend practices that could be WAY better for everyone, I mean the actual attitudes are ATROCIOUS.
If it's not the immature responses it's the goto answers, I know for a fact in from passing in the forum you've come across them, the vapid, the downright silly and the dead end logic that really doesn't resolve anything
"If you don't like it don't play it"
"It's FREE what do you expect"
"other F2P mmo's charge more"
The straw man arguments
"Oh, so you don't want to pay 6 quid for a respec, clearly you want the game to be totally free and PWE and Cryptic to go out of business"
"Oh, so you think mounts are a bit pricey, clearly you can't afford them because you're an imbecile with a bad job"
(ad hominem of the irrelevant for flavor)
and then the plain ad hominem that clearly is a sad cry for attention ad lack of articulation and understanding of the topic.
I must say I'm guilty of some bad arguments or poorly worded posts, but usually that's because this forum, reading it at times is tiring and not because I'm straining my brain to understand, but to not repeatedly hammer my head off the desk or nearby masonry at the sheer lack of understanding and bad logic.
(exceptions to those that do make somewhat slightly compelling arguments, the few of you that do, are the reason this forum has ANY sort of discussion, thank you, you're actually appreciated for it)
Couldn't have said it better myself.
Exactly, it would be comical if it wasn't so sad and it's because of these rabid fanboys that the genre is where it is today, and why publishers keep monetizing more and more. As long as the lemmings unquestioningly accept and pay, and attack anyone who speaks out against it, it won't change and our MMO genre will continue going downhill.
You can't really argue against the monetization at all can ya? that's not a gloat or putting you down by the way, that's a sad recognition of it in truth. I mean you and I aren't highly drugged chimpanzee's either, but it's pretty obvious to even the aforementioned chimp that LoL doesn't gouge like a lot of these MMO's do, and it's printing cash to wipe it's rear with, it has it's share of whiners about class balances and that, but rarely if ever will you see a complaint about their cash shop, it's like...never a problem, and for all those that claim the forum is the place for the "few" to complain about things their "minority" want to "whinge" about... What does it say when their forum doesn't even HAVE anywhere NEAR the level of complaints about monetization. Folks just can't really fault them in that regard than as much as in this game.
Also, if you believe in the merits of a high zen cost making incessant grinding more attractive, well... I can't take that from you, but I would suggest you try and think about that for a bit. It was always my personal belief that in good game design, grinding, was something that shouldn't FEEL like grinding, not something you do ad tedium to avoid having to fork over large amounts of money.
I understand that it's not really your area of expertise, but if you walk into the gaming industry for example, as a developer or publisher and immediately disregard the notion of a game being about enjoying the game for it's thematic content and gameplay and instead make decisions based on how you have your players pay up or grind ad tedium, well I can't argue from a business point of view that you're wrong. But I can say you're probably going detract from the "game" part of your....erm.....game....
You are more than welcome, but there's no need to thank me, most of the time I'm probably more of a hinderance to discussions about these things than a help, due to understanding the issue all too well, seeing the problems and how it's really just an inability to adapt monetization practices, and then losing all will to really think before I type what has to be well over my two hundreth post on the matter, on yet another F2P game....about.....same......thing.....brain.................shutting......
As I said it's tiring facing down the SAME bad logic, and it's why I bring up those that CAN make some compelling arguments, they're so rare but it's good that they can sometimes help me to stop going overboard with the critique, sometimes you DO have to overlook the ugly flaws to see the good and accept them, Blood Omen/Soul Reaver being older titles were **** ugly graphically and heck the latter was not even a finished game... yet their voice acting, pacing and story where just....breathtaking and they ONLY GOT BETTER. I would NEVER defend them based on those merits though so you can in some way see why some folks defend this game only based on it's merits to them. Sadly when it comes to monetization, I can't see why they would then defend this game knowing it could be better for the game company as well as it's players.