Still, I usually only play MMOs for a month or two before I get bored so in that short of a timeframe this is cheaper than buying a box and paying a sub.
Heck yes, best game I have never bought. Already tired of the nonsense, the road ahead does not look bright.
It's "beta", respecs should be free. Hell, the cash shop shouldn't even be open yet. And I wouldn't mind one free respec a month or something once the game goes "live".
Still, I usually only play MMOs for a month or two before I get bored so in that short of a timeframe this is cheaper than buying a box and paying a sub.
Why should it be free? Some betas don't allow respecs at all. Because they need to test enforced character progression without rollbacks.
Why can't the cash shop be open? How does one expect to test the cash shop then, using live situations?
One reason of open beta is to test in a "live scenario". There is no other way to test live scenario, simply because it wouldn't be true replication of "live" status. Of course, a side effect of replicating a "live scenario" is that it sometimes is completely indistinguishable from one. Which is a good thing for testing.
Path of Exile had a bought in closed beta where they tested a live cash shop. No rollbacks from closed beta, no refunds from cash shop. Are you going to insist that that closed beta wasn't a beta?
EDIT: Are you also going to insist that every kickstarter never goes through beta?
Why should it be free? Some betas don't allow respecs at all. Because they need to test enforced character progression without rollbacks.
Why can't the cash shop be open? How does one expect to test the cash shop then, using live situations?
One reason of open beta is to test in a "live scenario". There is no other way to test live scenario, simply because it wouldn't be true replication of "live" status. Of course, a side effect of replicating a "live scenario" is that it sometimes is completely indistinguishable from one. Which is a good thing for testing.
if that was the case they would not have them ingame currently, for forced progressions sake. so why cash in on it? (inb4 the asinine 'why not' response)
difference between a "everyone has unlimited zen that is not permanent, we want you for the next few hours to buy items and report any and all issues to us via <insert method and place here>" and "here's our vaguely tested cash shop, like it or lump it"
One is seemingly a methodical process you would imagine a beta would use to help simulate a real use as best they can, the other is just like having a badly cooked meal dumped on your table sloshing everywhere, by a clearly sweaty and apathetic human.
God I hate this discussion... gotta stop letting myself get sucked into it >.<
Also, it is for all intents and purposes a Beta, I dunno why folks are arguing about that silly word, the discussion needs to be the question "is it a GOOD beta"
if that was the case they would not have them ingame currently, for forced progressions sake. so why cash in on it? (inb4 the asinine 'why not' response)
difference between a "everyone has unlimited zen that is not permanent, we want you for the next few hours to buy items and report any and all issues to us via <insert method and place here>" and "here's our vaguely tested cash shop, like it or lump it"
One is seemingly a methodical process you would imagine a beta would use to help simulate a real use as best they can, the other is just like having a badly cooked meal dumped on your table sloshing everywhere, by a clearly sweaty and apathetic human.
God I hate this discussion... gotta stop letting myself get sucked into it >.<
Because the Live scenario will have zen/AD respecs. Can't test a live scenario without replicating it.
Why should it be free? Some betas don't allow respecs at all. Because they need to test enforced character progression without rollbacks.
Why can't the cash shop be open? How does one expect to test the cash shop then, using live situations?
One reason of open beta is to test in a "live scenario". There is no other way to test live scenario, simply because it wouldn't be true replication of "live" status. Of course, a side effect of replicating a "live scenario" is that it sometimes is completely indistinguishable from one. Which is a good thing for testing.
Test it with an allowance you give players, the way respectable companies do it. And if some betas don't allow respects for some reason, fine. Doesn't make paying for em any better.
Path of Exile had a bought in closed beta where they tested a live cash shop. No rollbacks from closed beta, no refunds from cash shop. Are you going to insist that that closed beta wasn't a beta?
EDIT: Are you also going to insist that every kickstarter never goes through beta?
Your kickstarters are another cash grab for fools.. I have no idea about POE, so I cannot comment.
Because the Live scenario will have zen/AD respecs. Can't test a live scenario without replicating it.
They could have previously, they can't now because of their no wipe/rollback policy and that they've accepted transactions.
I believe that is the rational answer we're looking for.
They could have previously, they can't now because of their no wipe/rollback policy and that they've accepted transactions.
I believe that is the rational answer we're looking for.
You assume they have no other options. Path of Exile also had no wipes from closed beta, and they also opened their cash shop during closed beta. All they did on open beta is to move all closed beta participants to a legacy server, and use a new server for open beta.
Likewise, this is just one of the options available to Cryptic.
You assume they have no other options. Path of Exile also had no wipes from closed beta, and they also opened their cash shop during closed beta. All they did on open beta is to move all closed beta participants to a legacy server, and use a new server for open beta.
Likewise, this is just one of the options available to Cryptic.
It is, but wasn't PoE designed with that system in mind?
The Hardcore/Temporary races dump(s) to default, system?
It's an option of course, I won't dispute that. But it's one that seems to come from a totally different direction in terms of their design...
*reads your sig*
Ah, I see now where that preference comes from. lol I do believe we're done here.
I like strippers.
Sorry had to fix that, why on earth would you STOP liking strippers?
Your opinion won't gain tracktion when the majority of people here came from EQ,EQ2,WoW,Rift, and many other Western releases where reset's were and still are free as part of your $15 dollar monthly sub. People don't mind paying, but the current cost of many features in NE are way over the top. They would make alot more money if the majority felt like they weren't being ripped off. The problem is while the minority which looks to include you are willing to pay over priced cost, the priceing scheme will not change.
As a frequent MMO hopper I was finding it odd that people were so upset over $6 resets. Almost every game that i've played that started f2p (not p2p transitions since they were developed with skill resets in-game) has had some pretty ridiculously priced resets.
Just to name a quick few:
Neverwinter - $6
Runes of Magic - $10
Dungeons & Dragons Online - $12
Phantasy Star Online 2(JP) - $13
Continent of the ninth seal(C9) - $20
Dragon Nest - $20
But there are many more lesser known games that charge similar prices as these. I don't remember a single game with a price as low as this where you could also earn the currency through in-game means. I'm not saying this to justify NWO's pricing, but you guys are taking this way too seriously. NWO is being WAY more generous than almost every f2p game out there. Someone please name a game that started with resets in the cash shop that is cheaper than Neverwinter?
Not to mention you have to practically be trying to mess up your power points in this game.
It is, but wasn't PoE designed with that system in mind?
The Hardcore/Temporary races dump(s) to default, system?
It's an option of course, I won't dispute that. But it's one that seems to come from a totally different direction in terms of their design...
*reads your sig*
Ah, I see now where that preference comes from. lol I do believe we're done here.
Maybe. After all, new shard suggestions is better discussed in a topic specific for that. Still, the point remains that there are options, other than a total wipe, trying to selectively patch the effects of the exploit, or letting it go.
Your opinion won't gain tracktion when the majority of people here came from EQ,EQ2,WoW,Rift, and many other Western releases where reset's were and still are free as part of your $15 dollar monthly sub. People don't mind paying, but the current cost of many features in NE are way over the top. They would make alot more money if the majority felt like they weren't being ripped off. The problem is while the minority which looks to include you are willing to pay over priced cost, the priceing scheme will not change.
ASSERTION: Many people might've also came from other F2P MMOs like PWE, Dragon Nest, Lineage, etc, where respecs are expensive and the norm. In fact, it's that subset of people which is statistically known to pay more in F2P games anyway, making them more valuable than your "western MMO" subset of people. Yes there's some statistical bias/tautology but the point still remains.
Maybe. After all, new shard suggestions is better discussed in a topic specific for that. Still, the point remains that there are options, other than a total wipe, trying to selectively patch the effects of the exploit, or letting it go.
You're still pushing an agenda. Which makes it very hard to take you seriously. No offense intended.
As for the other games who have worse pricing than NWO for respecs, that post is very relevant, because it highlights the absurdity of the price schemes of a LOT of BAD MMORPG's
That list is like a who's who of terrible publishers and cash grab monetizaion... lol
ASSERTION: Many people might've also came from other F2P MMOs like PWE, Dragon Nest, Lineage, etc, where respecs are expensive and the norm. In fact, it's that subset of people which is statistically known to pay more in F2P games anyway, making them more valuable than your "western MMO" subset of people. Yes there's some statistical bias/tautology but the point still remains.
It's a good observation, but it is filled with a lot more than a LITTLE bias. So i'll respond with a bit of my own observational bias of sorts, If you believe that the eastern conversion games, are coming at the western market with anything good enough to REALLY make a dent currently, you've clearly not been looking at what's really making an impact, and sadly while Nexon and NCSoft etc are making valiant zergs at the market, they're not really sticking and standing out as much as they should be if they were really worth it. At best you see a large influx of hype about them, then folks realize it's nothing new or the new is bad and it's all wrapped up in the new wave of monetization practices and leave again, some stay naturally, but it's usually the die hard fans that seem to develop stockholme syndrome of sorts.
That list is like a who's who of terrible publishers and cash grab monetizaion... lol
Exactly, putting a list of bads (companys) means nothing , other than other bads, following the original bads,bad price scheme is just bad. Bads will be bad in all forms of business and life in general.
You're still pushing an agenda. Which makes it very hard to take you seriously. No offense intended.
As for the other games who have worse pricing than NWO for respecs, that post is very relevant, because it highlights the absurdity of the price schemes of a LOT of BAD MMORPG's
That list is like a who's who of terrible publishers and cash grab monetizaion... lol
Depends on your definition of bad MMO. Yes, there's cash grab monetization, but it's proven to work, and it subsidizes the free players which help contribute to the whole MMO feel. Unlike subscription games, which often tends to rely on such monetization later anyway (because well, it's proven to work).
That list is like a who's who of terrible publishers and cash grab monetizaion... lol
Exactly, putting a list of bads (companys) means nothing , other than other bads, following the original bads,bad price scheme is just bad. Bads will be bad in all forms of business and life in general.
What folks seem to misunderstand, is that a bad publisher and bad monetization, doesn't mean a bad developer or game. The core game of a lot of Neverwinter: online is actually GREAT. The monetization and handling of the game by PWE, is frickin terrible. It creates a bit of a dilemma, aside from the skinner box garbage, I like and WANT to play NWO. But due to the PWE influence, I don't agree with what they ask in terms of pricing, or what they put a price tag on, regardless of wether or not I could no-life grind up some AD or exploit my way to it, or gouge other players for it... etc etc etc
Depends on your definition of bad MMO. Yes, there's cash grab monetization, but it's proven to work, and it subsidizes the free players which help contribute to the whole MMO feel. Unlike subscription games, which often tends to rely on such monetization later anyway (because well, it's proven to work).
It works, it's abusive and terrible and called "whaling" and in the end COSTS them players and gets them bad reputations, but it "works"
Very progressive thinking...
But I don't mean to insult just to make you hopefully think a bit, and really the one thing that should make you think is for me to simply ask you
"If this is the best we can expect, explain why league of legends is sh****ng money then and not resorting to this type of monetization"
In my humble and subjective opinion, the churn n burn mmo publishers that buy up these IP's and install cash grab aspects to them, are completely misreading their market and missing out. I wouldn't mind this, if only they didn't take such GREAT names down into the toilet with them,
DDO didn't do much for the Dungeons and Dragons name, and this again in my subjective opinion should have been a game that the real fans of the original could love with no underlying
"but's, and's or if's" even if it didn't fit perfectly into the style of the game and was more action orientated.
Well said, it is so hard to fathom why some people are so happy for having to pay $6 to respec or the overly high AD cost for feat respec. Being more reasonably priced would hurt no one, make the game a lot more accessable to WoW/GW2/Rift/Tera/WaR etc crowd who do expect respecs to be part of the game-cheaply.
That is the twisted mind of the fanboy. I can understand if someone simply doesn't care. But to actively work against one's own best interests by defending said practices and attempting to shut down all opposition. I wonder what goes through the head of someone like that.
These people have an unhealthy, misplaced affection for a company who answers to stockholders, who don't care one iota about the OP and people like them.
It's gotten to the point where companies don't even have to show up to defend themselves because the player base is divided between savvy consumers, and ignorant people who would rather defend a company they like no matter what, they actually think about what they are fighting against.
What folks seem to misunderstand, is that a bad publisher and bad monetization, doesn't mean a bad developer or game. The core game of a lot of Neverwinter: online is actually GREAT. The monetization and handling of the game by PWE, is frickin terrible. It creates a bit of a dilemma, aside from the skinner box garbage, I like and WANT to play NWO. But due to the PWE influence, I don't agree with what they ask in terms of pricing, or what they put a price tag on, regardless of wether or not I could no-life grind up some AD or exploit my way to it, or gouge other players for it... etc etc etc
It works, it's abusive and terrible and called "whaling" and in the end COSTS them players and gets them bad reputations, but it "works"
Very progressive thinking...
But I don't mean to insult just to make you hopefully think a bit, and really the one thing that should make you think is for me to simply ask you
"If this is the best we can expect, explain why league of legends is sh****ng money then and not resorting to this type of monetization"
In my humble and subjective opinion, the churn n burn mmo publishers that buy up these IP's and install cash grab aspects to them, are completely misreading their market and missing out. I wouldn't mind this, if only they didn't take such GREAT names down into the toilet with them,
DDO didn't do much for the Dungeons and Dragons name, and this again in my subjective opinion should have been a game that the real fans of the original could love with no underlying
"but's, and's or if's" even if it didn't fit perfectly into the style of the game and was more action orientated.
I do agree that the monetization could've been done a lot better, but I'm a programmer, not a market analyst. I'd note that P2W (which is an entirely different type of monetization from this instance) actually helps to mitigate the effects of the high zen cost, because it makes the option of farming for AD for respec more plausible. Regardless, yes, too expensive, and not suitable for this sort of IP.
I wish. You'd be surprised how sincere these people are. If they were being sarcastic, it would be less depressing.
I know...I try and offset the soul crushingly dreary truth with some levity and a healthy dose of suspicion that they're in fact just unoriginal trolls at times, but there ARE the odd poster that have a somewhat decent defense of some of the LESS questionable paradigms of monetization in this game, it's a shame half of them are in some sort of stockholme syndrom type daze and repeatedly and unquestionably defend practices that could be WAY better for everyone, I mean the actual attitudes are ATROCIOUS.
If it's not the immature responses it's the goto answers, I know for a fact in from passing in the forum you've come across them, the vapid, the downright silly and the dead end logic that really doesn't resolve anything
"If you don't like it don't play it"
"It's FREE what do you expect"
"other F2P mmo's charge more"
The straw man arguments
"Oh, so you don't want to pay 6 quid for a respec, clearly you want the game to be totally free and PWE and Cryptic to go out of business"
"Oh, so you think mounts are a bit pricey, clearly you can't afford them because you're an imbecile with a bad job"
(ad hominem of the irrelevant for flavor)
and then the plain ad hominem that clearly is a sad cry for attention ad lack of articulation and understanding of the topic.
I must say I'm guilty of some bad arguments or poorly worded posts, but usually that's because this forum, reading it at times is tiring and not because I'm straining my brain to understand, but to not repeatedly hammer my head off the desk or nearby masonry at the sheer lack of understanding and bad logic.
(exceptions to those that do make somewhat slightly compelling arguments, the few of you that do, are the reason this forum has ANY sort of discussion, thank you, you're actually appreciated for it)
I know...I try and offset the soul crushingly dreary truth with some levity and a healthy dose of suspicion that they're in fact just unoriginal trolls at times, but there ARE the odd poster that have a somewhat decent defense of some of the LESS questionable paradigms of monetization in this game, it's a shame half of them are in some sort of stockholme syndrom type daze and repeatedly and unquestionably defend practices that could be WAY better for everyone, I mean the actual attitudes are ATROCIOUS.
If it's not the immature responses it's the goto answers, I know for a fact in from passing in the forum you've come across them, the vapid, the downright silly and the dead end logic that really doesn't resolve anything
"If you don't like it don't play it"
"It's FREE what do you expect"
"other F2P mmo's charge more"
The straw man arguments
"Oh, so you don't want to pay 6 quid for a respec, clearly you want the game to be totally free and PWE and Cryptic to go out of business"
"Oh, so you think mounts are a bit pricey, clearly you can't afford them because you're an imbecile with a bad job"
(ad hominem of the irrelevant for flavor)
and then the plain ad hominem that clearly is a sad cry for attention ad lack of articulation and understanding of the topic.
I must say I'm guilty of some bad arguments or poorly worded posts, but usually that's because this forum, reading it at times is tiring and not because I'm straining my brain to understand, but to not repeatedly hammer my head off the desk or nearby masonry at the sheer lack of understanding and bad logic.
(exceptions to those that do make somewhat slightly compelling arguments, the few of you that do, are the reason this forum has ANY sort of discussion, thank you, you're actually appreciated for it)
Couldn't have said it better myself.
I wanna go back to being weird. I like being weird. Weird's all I got, oh, and my sweet style. -Maurice Moss, The IT Crowd
Comments
You have already forked over a year's worth of subs and a box, Hero. And it's just the first month.
Heck yes, best game I have never bought. Already tired of the nonsense, the road ahead does not look bright.
best reply that I read today!
Why can't the cash shop be open? How does one expect to test the cash shop then, using live situations?
One reason of open beta is to test in a "live scenario". There is no other way to test live scenario, simply because it wouldn't be true replication of "live" status. Of course, a side effect of replicating a "live scenario" is that it sometimes is completely indistinguishable from one. Which is a good thing for testing.
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
When you are PAYING already.
EDIT: Are you also going to insist that every kickstarter never goes through beta?
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
if that was the case they would not have them ingame currently, for forced progressions sake. so why cash in on it? (inb4 the asinine 'why not' response)
difference between a "everyone has unlimited zen that is not permanent, we want you for the next few hours to buy items and report any and all issues to us via <insert method and place here>" and "here's our vaguely tested cash shop, like it or lump it"
One is seemingly a methodical process you would imagine a beta would use to help simulate a real use as best they can, the other is just like having a badly cooked meal dumped on your table sloshing everywhere, by a clearly sweaty and apathetic human.
God I hate this discussion... gotta stop letting myself get sucked into it >.<
Also, it is for all intents and purposes a Beta, I dunno why folks are arguing about that silly word, the discussion needs to be the question "is it a GOOD beta"
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
Test it with an allowance you give players, the way respectable companies do it. And if some betas don't allow respects for some reason, fine. Doesn't make paying for em any better.
Your kickstarters are another cash grab for fools.. I have no idea about POE, so I cannot comment.
They could have previously, they can't now because of their no wipe/rollback policy and that they've accepted transactions.
I believe that is the rational answer we're looking for.
Going to have to beg to differ then, but w/e.
You assume they have no other options. Path of Exile also had no wipes from closed beta, and they also opened their cash shop during closed beta. All they did on open beta is to move all closed beta participants to a legacy server, and use a new server for open beta.
Likewise, this is just one of the options available to Cryptic.
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
Not that I am much better, I liked strippers.
It is, but wasn't PoE designed with that system in mind?
The Hardcore/Temporary races dump(s) to default, system?
It's an option of course, I won't dispute that. But it's one that seems to come from a totally different direction in terms of their design...
*reads your sig*
Ah, I see now where that preference comes from. lol I do believe we're done here.
Sorry had to fix that, why on earth would you STOP liking strippers?
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
You're still pushing an agenda. Which makes it very hard to take you seriously. No offense intended.
As for the other games who have worse pricing than NWO for respecs, that post is very relevant, because it highlights the absurdity of the price schemes of a LOT of BAD MMORPG's
That list is like a who's who of terrible publishers and cash grab monetizaion... lol
It's a good observation, but it is filled with a lot more than a LITTLE bias. So i'll respond with a bit of my own observational bias of sorts, If you believe that the eastern conversion games, are coming at the western market with anything good enough to REALLY make a dent currently, you've clearly not been looking at what's really making an impact, and sadly while Nexon and NCSoft etc are making valiant zergs at the market, they're not really sticking and standing out as much as they should be if they were really worth it. At best you see a large influx of hype about them, then folks realize it's nothing new or the new is bad and it's all wrapped up in the new wave of monetization practices and leave again, some stay naturally, but it's usually the die hard fans that seem to develop stockholme syndrome of sorts.
Exactly, putting a list of bads (companys) means nothing , other than other bads, following the original bads,bad price scheme is just bad. Bads will be bad in all forms of business and life in general.
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
What folks seem to misunderstand, is that a bad publisher and bad monetization, doesn't mean a bad developer or game. The core game of a lot of Neverwinter: online is actually GREAT. The monetization and handling of the game by PWE, is frickin terrible. It creates a bit of a dilemma, aside from the skinner box garbage, I like and WANT to play NWO. But due to the PWE influence, I don't agree with what they ask in terms of pricing, or what they put a price tag on, regardless of wether or not I could no-life grind up some AD or exploit my way to it, or gouge other players for it... etc etc etc
It works, it's abusive and terrible and called "whaling" and in the end COSTS them players and gets them bad reputations, but it "works"
Very progressive thinking...
But I don't mean to insult just to make you hopefully think a bit, and really the one thing that should make you think is for me to simply ask you
"If this is the best we can expect, explain why league of legends is sh****ng money then and not resorting to this type of monetization"
In my humble and subjective opinion, the churn n burn mmo publishers that buy up these IP's and install cash grab aspects to them, are completely misreading their market and missing out. I wouldn't mind this, if only they didn't take such GREAT names down into the toilet with them,
DDO didn't do much for the Dungeons and Dragons name, and this again in my subjective opinion should have been a game that the real fans of the original could love with no underlying
"but's, and's or if's" even if it didn't fit perfectly into the style of the game and was more action orientated.
That is the twisted mind of the fanboy. I can understand if someone simply doesn't care. But to actively work against one's own best interests by defending said practices and attempting to shut down all opposition. I wonder what goes through the head of someone like that.
These people have an unhealthy, misplaced affection for a company who answers to stockholders, who don't care one iota about the OP and people like them.
It's gotten to the point where companies don't even have to show up to defend themselves because the player base is divided between savvy consumers, and ignorant people who would rather defend a company they like no matter what, they actually think about what they are fighting against.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sYp-eggD1Q
Usually?
"HAHAHAHAHAA I TROLE U"
May I name F2P games where respecs doesn't cost a dime?
I wish. You'd be surprised how sincere these people are. If they were being sarcastic, it would be less depressing.
I do agree that the monetization could've been done a lot better, but I'm a programmer, not a market analyst. I'd note that P2W (which is an entirely different type of monetization from this instance) actually helps to mitigate the effects of the high zen cost, because it makes the option of farming for AD for respec more plausible. Regardless, yes, too expensive, and not suitable for this sort of IP.
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
I know...I try and offset the soul crushingly dreary truth with some levity and a healthy dose of suspicion that they're in fact just unoriginal trolls at times, but there ARE the odd poster that have a somewhat decent defense of some of the LESS questionable paradigms of monetization in this game, it's a shame half of them are in some sort of stockholme syndrom type daze and repeatedly and unquestionably defend practices that could be WAY better for everyone, I mean the actual attitudes are ATROCIOUS.
If it's not the immature responses it's the goto answers, I know for a fact in from passing in the forum you've come across them, the vapid, the downright silly and the dead end logic that really doesn't resolve anything
"If you don't like it don't play it"
"It's FREE what do you expect"
"other F2P mmo's charge more"
The straw man arguments
"Oh, so you don't want to pay 6 quid for a respec, clearly you want the game to be totally free and PWE and Cryptic to go out of business"
"Oh, so you think mounts are a bit pricey, clearly you can't afford them because you're an imbecile with a bad job"
(ad hominem of the irrelevant for flavor)
and then the plain ad hominem that clearly is a sad cry for attention ad lack of articulation and understanding of the topic.
I must say I'm guilty of some bad arguments or poorly worded posts, but usually that's because this forum, reading it at times is tiring and not because I'm straining my brain to understand, but to not repeatedly hammer my head off the desk or nearby masonry at the sheer lack of understanding and bad logic.
(exceptions to those that do make somewhat slightly compelling arguments, the few of you that do, are the reason this forum has ANY sort of discussion, thank you, you're actually appreciated for it)
Couldn't have said it better myself.