So the OP's train of logic is, because some other companies (which are infamous for being greedy) are doing the same bad thing, only worse. That makes this bad thing ok.
Basically:
A is worse than B, so B isn't bad at all.
When your games are normally targeted at people who literally drop dead in internet cafes, or rich kids from Dubai, or children on mommy and daddy's coin, you can price those things for suckers.
I wanna go back to being weird. I like being weird. Weird's all I got, oh, and my sweet style. -Maurice Moss, The IT Crowd
but wait. this is a conversation about a part of the game which you can technically get for free. therefore the free content is relevant as the respec's are technically free. everything in this game is free you just also have the choice to pay for it.
and it was only my last statement that mentioned free content the rest of it was a derivation of how to work out how much time it will take you of gameplay to pay for a single respec.
Did you even read it or did you just jump to my final statement?
Your post was a big spiel with a few guesstimates, and from what I did read, you were more than generous with the amount of AD one could realistically get per day etc always taking the best case scenario, and ignoring the actual issue again. Which isn't that it takes x amount of time, but that it IS a zen shop item, the complaint is based on a subjective belief that it shouldn't be due to the fact it's not the most favorable of monetization practices. It feels constrictive to something that players derive fun from and thus it's considered a cash grab by them.
Me personally? I like respeccing, I'm not paying for it in this game, I'm not grinding for it in this game, and thus I don't get to respec. Does that detriment my playing? a little. Does that mean because it doesn't affect me massively I should disregard those that it's a huge bone of contention to?
Heck no. Why? because how they derive fun from the game, is important to me as a gamer and I have to respect that, so long as their derivement of fun doesn't disrupt other peoples idea of fun, what's the use in attacking them?
Yet that's all I see here, time in and time out.... constant ad hominem sniping for little more than someone asking for their fun to not be leeched off of or to have to grind incessantly so that they can afford once in a blue moon.
Anyways, that's quite enough of being sucked into this bad argument for me, I've said all I really have to say to you, ignore it or listen to it, either way I don't care
Your post was a big spiel with a few guesstimates, and from what I did read, you were more than generous with the amount of AD one could realistically get per day etc always taking the best case scenario, and ignoring the actual issue again. Which isn't that it takes x amount of time, but that it IS a zen shop item, the complaint is based on a subjective belief that it shouldn't be due to the fact it's not the most favorable of monetization practices. It feels constrictive to something that players derive fun from and thus it's considered a cash grab by them.
Me personally? I like respeccing, I'm not paying for it in this game, I'm not grinding for it in this game, and thus I don't get to respec. Does that detriment my playing? a little. Does that mean because it doesn't affect me massively I should disregard those that it's a huge bone of contention to?
Heck no. Why? because how they derive fun from the game, is important to me as a gamer and I have to respect that, so long as their derivement of fun doesn't disrupt other peoples idea of fun, what's the use in attacking them?
Yet that's all I see here, time in and time out.... constant ad hominem sniping for little more than someone asking for their fun to not be leeched off of or to have to grind incessantly so that they can afford once in a blue moon.
Anyways, that's quite enough of being sucked into this bad argument for me, I've said all I really have to say to you, ignore it or listen to it, either way I don't care
EDIT!!
seem's the quote took up alot of space and i didn't notice. i don't really fancy writing all that again so my ending statement was "Let's just end this on a difference of opinion"
Wizard's Choice Chapter 1
NW-DQ7P2NSND
A wizard's quest to save himself, and his companions
$15 adds up though. As opposed to F2P where you spend only how much you want to play as long as you want (until the servers close).
but to be competitive in f2p end up paying more then you would for a p2p that is general gripe many of us have. I think a majority of us that hate these prices are from sub games, or coming from things like TOR and EQ and WoW where we are so use to having full access to everything for a set fee... you can argue all you want but if you are serious about playing this game, you WILL pay more then you would subing every month.
Easy fix to this is just to give us a sub model we can use if we choose to, and call it a day. CO has one, and so does STO so why doesnt this game?
Me personally? I like respeccing, I'm not paying for it in this game, I'm not grinding for it in this game, and thus I don't get to respec. Does that detriment my playing? a little. Does that mean because it doesn't affect me massively I should disregard those that it's a huge bone of contention to?
Heck no. Why? because how they derive fun from the game, is important to me as a gamer and I have to respect that, so long as their derivement of fun doesn't disrupt other peoples idea of fun, what's the use in attacking them?
Yet that's all I see here, time in and time out.... constant ad hominem sniping for little more than someone asking for their fun to not be leeched off of or to have to grind incessantly so that they can afford once in a blue moon.
Well said, it is so hard to fathom why some people are so happy for having to pay $6 to respec or the overly high AD cost for feat respec. Being more reasonably priced would hurt no one, make the game a lot more accessable to WoW/GW2/Rift/Tera/WaR etc crowd who do expect respecs to be part of the game-cheaply.
Are you guys serious? The powers and feats on my rogue have been changed three times in20 days in an open beta and you argue it's fair to charge for respecs? It's a scam.
Well said, it is so hard to fathom why some people are so happy for having to pay $6 to respec or the overly high AD cost for feat respec. Being more reasonably priced would hurt no one, make the game a lot more accessable to WoW/GW2/Rift/Tera/WaR etc crowd who do expect respecs to be part of the game-cheaply.
It's a curious thing indeed when people work against their own best interests, in this case lower prices for all and an item or 2 made available with in game currency, even to the length of attacking and insulting those trying to make things better.
It's "beta", respecs should be free. Hell, the cash shop shouldn't even be open yet. And I wouldn't mind one free respec a month or something once the game goes "live".
Still, I usually only play MMOs for a month or two before I get bored so in that short of a timeframe this is cheaper than buying a box and paying a sub.
Still, I usually only play MMOs for a month or two before I get bored so in that short of a timeframe this is cheaper than buying a box and paying a sub.
Heck yes, best game I have never bought. Already tired of the nonsense, the road ahead does not look bright.
It's "beta", respecs should be free. Hell, the cash shop shouldn't even be open yet. And I wouldn't mind one free respec a month or something once the game goes "live".
Still, I usually only play MMOs for a month or two before I get bored so in that short of a timeframe this is cheaper than buying a box and paying a sub.
Why should it be free? Some betas don't allow respecs at all. Because they need to test enforced character progression without rollbacks.
Why can't the cash shop be open? How does one expect to test the cash shop then, using live situations?
One reason of open beta is to test in a "live scenario". There is no other way to test live scenario, simply because it wouldn't be true replication of "live" status. Of course, a side effect of replicating a "live scenario" is that it sometimes is completely indistinguishable from one. Which is a good thing for testing.
Path of Exile had a bought in closed beta where they tested a live cash shop. No rollbacks from closed beta, no refunds from cash shop. Are you going to insist that that closed beta wasn't a beta?
EDIT: Are you also going to insist that every kickstarter never goes through beta?
Why should it be free? Some betas don't allow respecs at all. Because they need to test enforced character progression without rollbacks.
Why can't the cash shop be open? How does one expect to test the cash shop then, using live situations?
One reason of open beta is to test in a "live scenario". There is no other way to test live scenario, simply because it wouldn't be true replication of "live" status. Of course, a side effect of replicating a "live scenario" is that it sometimes is completely indistinguishable from one. Which is a good thing for testing.
if that was the case they would not have them ingame currently, for forced progressions sake. so why cash in on it? (inb4 the asinine 'why not' response)
difference between a "everyone has unlimited zen that is not permanent, we want you for the next few hours to buy items and report any and all issues to us via <insert method and place here>" and "here's our vaguely tested cash shop, like it or lump it"
One is seemingly a methodical process you would imagine a beta would use to help simulate a real use as best they can, the other is just like having a badly cooked meal dumped on your table sloshing everywhere, by a clearly sweaty and apathetic human.
God I hate this discussion... gotta stop letting myself get sucked into it >.<
Also, it is for all intents and purposes a Beta, I dunno why folks are arguing about that silly word, the discussion needs to be the question "is it a GOOD beta"
if that was the case they would not have them ingame currently, for forced progressions sake. so why cash in on it? (inb4 the asinine 'why not' response)
difference between a "everyone has unlimited zen that is not permanent, we want you for the next few hours to buy items and report any and all issues to us via <insert method and place here>" and "here's our vaguely tested cash shop, like it or lump it"
One is seemingly a methodical process you would imagine a beta would use to help simulate a real use as best they can, the other is just like having a badly cooked meal dumped on your table sloshing everywhere, by a clearly sweaty and apathetic human.
God I hate this discussion... gotta stop letting myself get sucked into it >.<
Because the Live scenario will have zen/AD respecs. Can't test a live scenario without replicating it.
Why should it be free? Some betas don't allow respecs at all. Because they need to test enforced character progression without rollbacks.
Why can't the cash shop be open? How does one expect to test the cash shop then, using live situations?
One reason of open beta is to test in a "live scenario". There is no other way to test live scenario, simply because it wouldn't be true replication of "live" status. Of course, a side effect of replicating a "live scenario" is that it sometimes is completely indistinguishable from one. Which is a good thing for testing.
Test it with an allowance you give players, the way respectable companies do it. And if some betas don't allow respects for some reason, fine. Doesn't make paying for em any better.
Path of Exile had a bought in closed beta where they tested a live cash shop. No rollbacks from closed beta, no refunds from cash shop. Are you going to insist that that closed beta wasn't a beta?
EDIT: Are you also going to insist that every kickstarter never goes through beta?
Your kickstarters are another cash grab for fools.. I have no idea about POE, so I cannot comment.
Because the Live scenario will have zen/AD respecs. Can't test a live scenario without replicating it.
They could have previously, they can't now because of their no wipe/rollback policy and that they've accepted transactions.
I believe that is the rational answer we're looking for.
They could have previously, they can't now because of their no wipe/rollback policy and that they've accepted transactions.
I believe that is the rational answer we're looking for.
You assume they have no other options. Path of Exile also had no wipes from closed beta, and they also opened their cash shop during closed beta. All they did on open beta is to move all closed beta participants to a legacy server, and use a new server for open beta.
Likewise, this is just one of the options available to Cryptic.
You assume they have no other options. Path of Exile also had no wipes from closed beta, and they also opened their cash shop during closed beta. All they did on open beta is to move all closed beta participants to a legacy server, and use a new server for open beta.
Likewise, this is just one of the options available to Cryptic.
It is, but wasn't PoE designed with that system in mind?
The Hardcore/Temporary races dump(s) to default, system?
It's an option of course, I won't dispute that. But it's one that seems to come from a totally different direction in terms of their design...
*reads your sig*
Ah, I see now where that preference comes from. lol I do believe we're done here.
I like strippers.
Sorry had to fix that, why on earth would you STOP liking strippers?
Your opinion won't gain tracktion when the majority of people here came from EQ,EQ2,WoW,Rift, and many other Western releases where reset's were and still are free as part of your $15 dollar monthly sub. People don't mind paying, but the current cost of many features in NE are way over the top. They would make alot more money if the majority felt like they weren't being ripped off. The problem is while the minority which looks to include you are willing to pay over priced cost, the priceing scheme will not change.
As a frequent MMO hopper I was finding it odd that people were so upset over $6 resets. Almost every game that i've played that started f2p (not p2p transitions since they were developed with skill resets in-game) has had some pretty ridiculously priced resets.
Just to name a quick few:
Neverwinter - $6
Runes of Magic - $10
Dungeons & Dragons Online - $12
Phantasy Star Online 2(JP) - $13
Continent of the ninth seal(C9) - $20
Dragon Nest - $20
But there are many more lesser known games that charge similar prices as these. I don't remember a single game with a price as low as this where you could also earn the currency through in-game means. I'm not saying this to justify NWO's pricing, but you guys are taking this way too seriously. NWO is being WAY more generous than almost every f2p game out there. Someone please name a game that started with resets in the cash shop that is cheaper than Neverwinter?
Not to mention you have to practically be trying to mess up your power points in this game.
It is, but wasn't PoE designed with that system in mind?
The Hardcore/Temporary races dump(s) to default, system?
It's an option of course, I won't dispute that. But it's one that seems to come from a totally different direction in terms of their design...
*reads your sig*
Ah, I see now where that preference comes from. lol I do believe we're done here.
Maybe. After all, new shard suggestions is better discussed in a topic specific for that. Still, the point remains that there are options, other than a total wipe, trying to selectively patch the effects of the exploit, or letting it go.
Your opinion won't gain tracktion when the majority of people here came from EQ,EQ2,WoW,Rift, and many other Western releases where reset's were and still are free as part of your $15 dollar monthly sub. People don't mind paying, but the current cost of many features in NE are way over the top. They would make alot more money if the majority felt like they weren't being ripped off. The problem is while the minority which looks to include you are willing to pay over priced cost, the priceing scheme will not change.
ASSERTION: Many people might've also came from other F2P MMOs like PWE, Dragon Nest, Lineage, etc, where respecs are expensive and the norm. In fact, it's that subset of people which is statistically known to pay more in F2P games anyway, making them more valuable than your "western MMO" subset of people. Yes there's some statistical bias/tautology but the point still remains.
Maybe. After all, new shard suggestions is better discussed in a topic specific for that. Still, the point remains that there are options, other than a total wipe, trying to selectively patch the effects of the exploit, or letting it go.
You're still pushing an agenda. Which makes it very hard to take you seriously. No offense intended.
As for the other games who have worse pricing than NWO for respecs, that post is very relevant, because it highlights the absurdity of the price schemes of a LOT of BAD MMORPG's
That list is like a who's who of terrible publishers and cash grab monetizaion... lol
ASSERTION: Many people might've also came from other F2P MMOs like PWE, Dragon Nest, Lineage, etc, where respecs are expensive and the norm. In fact, it's that subset of people which is statistically known to pay more in F2P games anyway, making them more valuable than your "western MMO" subset of people. Yes there's some statistical bias/tautology but the point still remains.
It's a good observation, but it is filled with a lot more than a LITTLE bias. So i'll respond with a bit of my own observational bias of sorts, If you believe that the eastern conversion games, are coming at the western market with anything good enough to REALLY make a dent currently, you've clearly not been looking at what's really making an impact, and sadly while Nexon and NCSoft etc are making valiant zergs at the market, they're not really sticking and standing out as much as they should be if they were really worth it. At best you see a large influx of hype about them, then folks realize it's nothing new or the new is bad and it's all wrapped up in the new wave of monetization practices and leave again, some stay naturally, but it's usually the die hard fans that seem to develop stockholme syndrome of sorts.
Comments
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJMvPU1a1vI
So the OP's train of logic is, because some other companies (which are infamous for being greedy) are doing the same bad thing, only worse. That makes this bad thing ok.
Basically:
A is worse than B, so B isn't bad at all.
When your games are normally targeted at people who literally drop dead in internet cafes, or rich kids from Dubai, or children on mommy and daddy's coin, you can price those things for suckers.
Your post was a big spiel with a few guesstimates, and from what I did read, you were more than generous with the amount of AD one could realistically get per day etc always taking the best case scenario, and ignoring the actual issue again. Which isn't that it takes x amount of time, but that it IS a zen shop item, the complaint is based on a subjective belief that it shouldn't be due to the fact it's not the most favorable of monetization practices. It feels constrictive to something that players derive fun from and thus it's considered a cash grab by them.
Me personally? I like respeccing, I'm not paying for it in this game, I'm not grinding for it in this game, and thus I don't get to respec. Does that detriment my playing? a little. Does that mean because it doesn't affect me massively I should disregard those that it's a huge bone of contention to?
Heck no. Why? because how they derive fun from the game, is important to me as a gamer and I have to respect that, so long as their derivement of fun doesn't disrupt other peoples idea of fun, what's the use in attacking them?
Yet that's all I see here, time in and time out.... constant ad hominem sniping for little more than someone asking for their fun to not be leeched off of or to have to grind incessantly so that they can afford once in a blue moon.
Anyways, that's quite enough of being sucked into this bad argument for me, I've said all I really have to say to you, ignore it or listen to it, either way I don't care
Everyone needs to cut a profit.
EDIT!!
seem's the quote took up alot of space and i didn't notice. i don't really fancy writing all that again so my ending statement was "Let's just end this on a difference of opinion"
NW-DQ7P2NSND
A wizard's quest to save himself, and his companions
but to be competitive in f2p end up paying more then you would for a p2p that is general gripe many of us have. I think a majority of us that hate these prices are from sub games, or coming from things like TOR and EQ and WoW where we are so use to having full access to everything for a set fee... you can argue all you want but if you are serious about playing this game, you WILL pay more then you would subing every month.
Easy fix to this is just to give us a sub model we can use if we choose to, and call it a day. CO has one, and so does STO so why doesnt this game?
Well said, it is so hard to fathom why some people are so happy for having to pay $6 to respec or the overly high AD cost for feat respec. Being more reasonably priced would hurt no one, make the game a lot more accessable to WoW/GW2/Rift/Tera/WaR etc crowd who do expect respecs to be part of the game-cheaply.
It's a curious thing indeed when people work against their own best interests, in this case lower prices for all and an item or 2 made available with in game currency, even to the length of attacking and insulting those trying to make things better.
I'd rather pay when I want something instead of giving money away for something I may never utilize.
Character is what a man is in the dark
Still, I usually only play MMOs for a month or two before I get bored so in that short of a timeframe this is cheaper than buying a box and paying a sub.
You have already forked over a year's worth of subs and a box, Hero. And it's just the first month.
Heck yes, best game I have never bought. Already tired of the nonsense, the road ahead does not look bright.
best reply that I read today!
Why can't the cash shop be open? How does one expect to test the cash shop then, using live situations?
One reason of open beta is to test in a "live scenario". There is no other way to test live scenario, simply because it wouldn't be true replication of "live" status. Of course, a side effect of replicating a "live scenario" is that it sometimes is completely indistinguishable from one. Which is a good thing for testing.
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
When you are PAYING already.
EDIT: Are you also going to insist that every kickstarter never goes through beta?
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
if that was the case they would not have them ingame currently, for forced progressions sake. so why cash in on it? (inb4 the asinine 'why not' response)
difference between a "everyone has unlimited zen that is not permanent, we want you for the next few hours to buy items and report any and all issues to us via <insert method and place here>" and "here's our vaguely tested cash shop, like it or lump it"
One is seemingly a methodical process you would imagine a beta would use to help simulate a real use as best they can, the other is just like having a badly cooked meal dumped on your table sloshing everywhere, by a clearly sweaty and apathetic human.
God I hate this discussion... gotta stop letting myself get sucked into it >.<
Also, it is for all intents and purposes a Beta, I dunno why folks are arguing about that silly word, the discussion needs to be the question "is it a GOOD beta"
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
Test it with an allowance you give players, the way respectable companies do it. And if some betas don't allow respects for some reason, fine. Doesn't make paying for em any better.
Your kickstarters are another cash grab for fools.. I have no idea about POE, so I cannot comment.
They could have previously, they can't now because of their no wipe/rollback policy and that they've accepted transactions.
I believe that is the rational answer we're looking for.
Going to have to beg to differ then, but w/e.
You assume they have no other options. Path of Exile also had no wipes from closed beta, and they also opened their cash shop during closed beta. All they did on open beta is to move all closed beta participants to a legacy server, and use a new server for open beta.
Likewise, this is just one of the options available to Cryptic.
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
Not that I am much better, I liked strippers.
It is, but wasn't PoE designed with that system in mind?
The Hardcore/Temporary races dump(s) to default, system?
It's an option of course, I won't dispute that. But it's one that seems to come from a totally different direction in terms of their design...
*reads your sig*
Ah, I see now where that preference comes from. lol I do believe we're done here.
Sorry had to fix that, why on earth would you STOP liking strippers?
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
You're still pushing an agenda. Which makes it very hard to take you seriously. No offense intended.
As for the other games who have worse pricing than NWO for respecs, that post is very relevant, because it highlights the absurdity of the price schemes of a LOT of BAD MMORPG's
That list is like a who's who of terrible publishers and cash grab monetizaion... lol
It's a good observation, but it is filled with a lot more than a LITTLE bias. So i'll respond with a bit of my own observational bias of sorts, If you believe that the eastern conversion games, are coming at the western market with anything good enough to REALLY make a dent currently, you've clearly not been looking at what's really making an impact, and sadly while Nexon and NCSoft etc are making valiant zergs at the market, they're not really sticking and standing out as much as they should be if they were really worth it. At best you see a large influx of hype about them, then folks realize it's nothing new or the new is bad and it's all wrapped up in the new wave of monetization practices and leave again, some stay naturally, but it's usually the die hard fans that seem to develop stockholme syndrome of sorts.