This needs to be stickied so that new incoming players who have not played either STO or CO can be made aware of how this "feature" works and prepare accordingly. (As in - don't use Zone Chat. At all. Ever.)
Apparently someone mentioned this system in Neverwinter. A GM immediately chatbanned the person. Sadly, this is a 'feature' of Cryptic games- if you're not familiar.
Someone doesn't like what you're saying? They put you on ignore. You get a handful of them in a short time? You can't chat for 24 hours- and nothing less. A full 24 hours, on all Cryptic engine games through PWE. No in-game email, PM's, nothing. And no one will unmute you if you send a ticket. You'll get a copy/paste email from Cryptic/PWE about how the system works and why it's 'working as intended'.
So, that means the trolls and greifers (which are common in Free-to-Play games, to a frightening degree) will exploit and use this as they have in the other Cryptic games.
So, if you're new to this company's games, then you need to know about this and how stupid of a system it is... and that GM's are muting people for mentioning it.
This sounds like the greatest system ever!!!! I can't believe every MMO does not offer this!
Let's just say you and five friends dislike what I said. You put me on ignore, which eliminates you from hearing me. But, because of that- I can't chat with ANYONE for 24 hours at all. You and your friends have the power to 'vote people into silence'. Sadly, RPers are usually the targets of this. Greifers will mob together and 'ignore' or 'report spam' on someone so they are silenced for 24 hours. If you don't think this is a bad system, go over to the Champions Online forums and search for 'Chat Ban System' and look at the MASSIVE number of people silenced for no reason, some of which were not even in the game.
Edit:
If you think this is a 'great system', please share your @handle with me and let me show you how it works.
Edit: I've had this happen to me once. I logged in, five people ran to me, and without me saying a word I was silenced for 24 hours.
And there are no gold sellers in this game. There haven't been any since 2009 for any Cryptic games.
Wrong.
I today had a mail in my box offering gold at $1 per gold coin and like $15 for 1 million diamonds and laughably they also offered power-level services (derp). They may not spam chat but already someone is farming & selling gold & diamonds.
Whenever a process is designed to meet a need, address a problem or provide a service it will always obey the following axiom
Someone is going to have to do the work.
Sometimes it’s a coder who does the work in the code so the user will not have to repeat things later. Sometimes it’s the gardener who pulls the weeds right away so she will not have to pull even more later. But we are talking about the chat system and who is moderating it; specifically who is handing out bans.
Well in this case PWE and Cryptic have made it clear that they are not going to be doing the work. But they are also not going to be caught standing idly by while all manners of offenses are perpetrated in their chat system. So they have invented a plan C. You the players do the work. You moderate your own chat and hand out bans as you like. Which brings me to the next question.
Who is most suited for the job?
Does it really seem like a good idea to hand out banning power to a fractious and anonymous set of people many of whom do not even have impulse control entirely developed yet? Does PWE and Cryptic really believe that the schoolyard bully approach is the best tack here?
Someone asked what would happen to a guild leader if she were chat banned in the middle of an event. I remember all too well the Avatar camp wars in a certain other game where groups would stand among each other spamming effects in the hopes of disconnecting the other and grabbing the mob. How much easier now to just chat ban them .
Indeed you don’t even have to be anywhere near them. Don’t like that guild and happen to know their raid schedule (from their website)? Wait until about 20 minutes after gather time and chat ban their raid leader, or their main tank or just all of them one at a time.
Okay, I hear you out there. Yes, they can all just go to skype or vent. In fact they are all probably there already. So let’s look at role-players. Game based role-play does not really happen via voice chat, role-players live in the chat system. The chat system is the game to anyone actively roleplaying. Chat ban them and they are simply out of a game.
For those that do not know, role-players can be quite competitive and aggressive as well. Giving a set of them the ability to take away the game from other role-players shows a very real gap in critical thinking if I can use that term without too much comedy.
And if you want to try to sell me on the idea that the chat ban system is a free market concept designed to put power into the hands of the people who are active in that system, consider this:
How many email address can be made by someone in 24 hours. How many PWE accounts can be created by someone in 24 hours? How many people can be chat banned by that one person in 24 hours? Not be too Godwin about it but it seems tantamount to digital terrorism, very literally power in the wrong hands.
The sad truth is that Cryptic and PWE are going to have to do the work anyway. They are going to have to go through the logs, deal with the tickets, find the offenders and punish the guilty anyway. In addition they will have to put in the time and effort to avoid the scenario I outline above smacking of someone planning for four hours to get out of an hour’s work.
How much easier everything would have been if they had just done the work the first time.
But if Cryptic and PWE still believe in their little corporate hearts that the players are the right people for the job of banning other players I wonder if they might advance me a loan of several trillion AD.
Don’t worry, the players will pay you back.
0
eccidMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
Well, I'm pretty sure this is what happened to me. Wonderful thing is it's broken, it keeps telling me there's 0 time left on my mute, and I can't talk. Been like that for weeks, submitted 3 tickets, nothing. It is impossible to be the co-head of a guild, and get new members if you can't chat.
clortbagsMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
I've just fallen victim to this system also, no idea why wasn't spamming chat or being offensive then just out of nowhere.... silenced
I can understand why this system has been implemented but if it only takes 5 (IIRC) players to maliciously ruin another player's fun like this then that's just ridiculous.
Makes it impossible to even send private tells to look for groups........ rubbish!
Apparently someone mentioned this system in Neverwinter. A GM immediately chatbanned the person. Sadly, this is a 'feature' of Cryptic games- if you're not familiar.
Someone doesn't like what you're saying? They put you on ignore. You get a handful of them in a short time? You can't chat for 24 hours- and nothing less. A full 24 hours, on all Cryptic engine games through PWE. No in-game email, PM's, nothing. And no one will unmute you if you send a ticket. You'll get a copy/paste email from Cryptic/PWE about how the system works and why it's 'working as intended'.
So, that means the trolls and greifers (which are common in Free-to-Play games, to a frightening degree) will exploit and use this as they have in the other Cryptic games.
So, if you're new to this company's games, then you need to know about this and how stupid of a system it is... and that GM's are muting people for mentioning it.
I agree with you 100% seriously 100%!
Just the other day right after the whole AD exploit thing when the servers came back up, someone was openly complaining that the AH wasn't online. I decided to message this individual and let him know that a day or two of downtime on the AH isn't bad considering that Guildwars 2 had it's auction system for down for about a MONTH!
This individual, and I quote, said, "Shut the **** up, I didn't ask for your input you piece of ****, welcome to not being able to chat at all."
I wasn't rude, I wasn't teasing, I simply gave information to help to try to relieve some stress off the guy's shoulders and the AH being down, instead, I got viciously attacked and then was ignored by several people at once causing me to not be able to talk for a full 24 hours.
Why did I get banned from the chat system when someone OPENLY COMPLAINED IN ZONE CHAT and I only offered info to help quell his anger?
Remember, you need MULTIPLE people to ignore you for this to happen, so all this kid did was tell his friends in guild chat to ignore me and they probably weren't even in the zone at the time.
This system is being used as a griefing tool by people who get butthurt due to disagreement on the internet. Its obvious that no one did research on what works in other games, because this game has multiple mechanics in it that can be used to grief other people.
But hey, why pay people to review chat when you can charge people to manage chat.
This chat ban system needs an overhaul. Drastically. Though it could be considered a "bad" idea, some players and I were discussing religions in zone chat. NO, I repeat, NO disparaging remarks were made on my part, we were simply talking. Soon I find myself to be banned for 24 hours from chatting, so no talking to my guildies or party. AWESOME. None of the other people in the conversation were banned, why should I be punished? They continued on with the topic, some of them with THE SAME EXACT VIEWPOINTS, why am I banned? This is the second ban I've had to deal with(read: nearly uninstalled) for NOTHING. I have nothing, why am I being punished?
Since I already know how much this post will affect anything: **** YOU PERFECT WORLD ENT. **** YOU WITH A SANDPAPER CONDOM
leave this **** game and come play rift. its f2p now and you wont get banned doing stupid **** like you will in this game.
0
sasheriaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited June 2013
I believe the system is good ONLY if it does the following
- Check how often you are spamming the channel. If you are spamming a lot, then say 40 unique people ignore you. (made up number), then you are chat ban. This is a little more "fancy" that the system will check for messages, repeats, and frequency.
- It shouldn't chatban on PM, guild, or email. (you can STILL individually ignore but it won't add to mix)
- Chatman is for public channel only
It's hilarious how this awful system is still in place, after so much outrage.
Oh, and in case nobody mentioned it in this thread yet... the 20 "reports / ignores" you get are additive and not within a certain time frame. Meaning, you can be 24 hour chat banned if you accumulate 20 "reports / ignores" within a day, a week, a month, etc. Dumbest sh*t I've ever seen in a MMO.
0
sasheriaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 1Arc User
It's hilarious how this awful system is still in place, after so much outrage.
Oh, and in case nobody mentioned it in this thread yet... the 20 "reports / ignores" you get are additive and not within a certain time frame. Meaning, you can be 24 hour chat banned if you accumulate 20 "reports / ignores" within a day, a week, a month, etc. Dumbest sh*t I've ever seen in a MMO.
Obviously I meant before you get banned, all of the "reports / ignores" are added up. Not in a span of a day or two, but throughout your entire playtime. If it doesn't get reset after you get banned, then you'll be perma-chat banned. Duh
0
cichardMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
100000 people can ignore you and it doesnt chat ban you!!! its when they report you for spam!!!! that it chat bans you.... They need to remove the report for spam chat ban.. leave the feature in to ignore them and to send a report that they may be spamming but dont auto mute us in game... for example.....
I was in a pug CN group when they wanted to exploit the instances i said i didnt want to exploit i wanted to juts do it normal. They said well GTFO **** and said enjoy your 24 hour chat ban.... 2 seconds later i had a 24 chat ban... basically he had his guild report me for chat spam. So ya not working as intended.
And there are no gold sellers in this game. There haven't been any since 2009 for any Cryptic games.
I'm not sure where you get your facts, but i see spammers all day in trade and I get at least 2-3 a week in my inbox. All of them attempting to sell me gold.
So I've been playing neverwinter for about a month now, reached level 60 about a week and a half ago. My guild mates and I where having a discussion about fraudulent websites that claim to sell astral diamonds (the in game currency used to buy better gear) warning them not to use them, and now my account is banned. I've tried contacting support, with no response. I WASN'T SPAMMING, I WASN'T TRYING TO SCAM ANYONE, I WAS WARNING PEOPLE, AND I GOT BANNED. gotta love stupid admins that can't read a chat log properly.
0
bioshrikeMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,729Arc User
So I've been playing neverwinter for about a month now, reached level 60 about a week and a half ago. My guild mates and I where having a discussion about fraudulent websites that claim to sell astral diamonds (the in game currency used to buy better gear) warning them not to use them, and now my account is banned. I've tried contacting support, with no response. I WASN'T SPAMMING, I WASN'T TRYING TO SCAM ANYONE, I WAS WARNING PEOPLE, AND I GOT BANNED. gotta love stupid admins that can't read a chat log properly.
It wasn't the admins - it was other players ignoring or reporting you as a spammer. I have yet to see/hear a GM or moderator live, in-game.
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
So I've been playing neverwinter for about a month now, reached level 60 about a week and a half ago. My guild mates and I where having a discussion about fraudulent websites that claim to sell astral diamonds (the in game currency used to buy better gear) warning them not to use them, and now my account is banned. I've tried contacting support, with no response. I WASN'T SPAMMING, I WASN'T TRYING TO SCAM ANYONE, I WAS WARNING PEOPLE, AND I GOT BANNED. gotta love stupid admins that can't read a chat log properly.
It wasnt admins or other people reporting you. Its a built in system to try and fight gold sellers. You typed in the name of a known site and were promptly banned. Thats all. No admins involved at all.
0
sh4dowrunn3rMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 17Arc User
edited July 2013
Thing is without this system zone chat would be unreadable. It's ok system just needs supervision... if someone places ticket that he was unjustly banned by it they should check chat logs at the time it happened and if he's innocent perma-ban everyone who muted him.
A lot of negative feedback about game just wouldn't happen if they had an efficent support system in place. Don't know why they are so cheap in that department. Game not being sub based just isn't an excuse - the only reason it isn't sub based is that it earns more as f2p.
So I've been playing neverwinter for about a month now, reached level 60 about a week and a half ago. My guild mates and I where having a discussion about fraudulent websites that claim to sell astral diamonds (the in game currency used to buy better gear) warning them not to use them, and now my account is banned. I've tried contacting support, with no response. I WASN'T SPAMMING, I WASN'T TRYING TO SCAM ANYONE, I WAS WARNING PEOPLE, AND I GOT BANNED. gotta love stupid admins that can't read a chat log properly.
You started a thread about this and it got locked. So now you try posting it in another thread? Are you trying to get banned? Again?
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
0
beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
It wasnt admins or other people reporting you. Its a built in system to try and fight gold sellers. You typed in the name of a known site and were promptly banned. Thats all. No admins involved at all.
This. It wouldn't happen if a human were processing the text. Computer programs aren't very good at context or nuance. Go through customer service and get it straightened out.
This works on all characters, on all Cryptic/PWE games: Champions, Starr Trek, and Neverwinter.
Again, let me emphasize: GM's are muting people for mentioning it.
There are no live GM's in this game, let alone any monitoring chat, they cant afford it. It is all automated, it may state a GM silenced you but that GM was a automatic Bot. If the GM were live it would take 2 seconds to check chat and see no problem or whatever, instead there is no grey area, if you hit enough lines to HAMSTER people off or type the wrong thing, you go bye bye.
There is no worse feeling in the world than the moment during an argument you realize you are wrong.
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This sounds like the greatest system ever!!!! I can't believe every MMO does not offer this!
Wrong.
I today had a mail in my box offering gold at $1 per gold coin and like $15 for 1 million diamonds and laughably they also offered power-level services (derp). They may not spam chat but already someone is farming & selling gold & diamonds.
Someone is going to have to do the work.
Sometimes it’s a coder who does the work in the code so the user will not have to repeat things later. Sometimes it’s the gardener who pulls the weeds right away so she will not have to pull even more later. But we are talking about the chat system and who is moderating it; specifically who is handing out bans.
Well in this case PWE and Cryptic have made it clear that they are not going to be doing the work. But they are also not going to be caught standing idly by while all manners of offenses are perpetrated in their chat system. So they have invented a plan C. You the players do the work. You moderate your own chat and hand out bans as you like. Which brings me to the next question.
Who is most suited for the job?
Does it really seem like a good idea to hand out banning power to a fractious and anonymous set of people many of whom do not even have impulse control entirely developed yet? Does PWE and Cryptic really believe that the schoolyard bully approach is the best tack here?
Someone asked what would happen to a guild leader if she were chat banned in the middle of an event. I remember all too well the Avatar camp wars in a certain other game where groups would stand among each other spamming effects in the hopes of disconnecting the other and grabbing the mob. How much easier now to just chat ban them .
Indeed you don’t even have to be anywhere near them. Don’t like that guild and happen to know their raid schedule (from their website)? Wait until about 20 minutes after gather time and chat ban their raid leader, or their main tank or just all of them one at a time.
Okay, I hear you out there. Yes, they can all just go to skype or vent. In fact they are all probably there already. So let’s look at role-players. Game based role-play does not really happen via voice chat, role-players live in the chat system. The chat system is the game to anyone actively roleplaying. Chat ban them and they are simply out of a game.
For those that do not know, role-players can be quite competitive and aggressive as well. Giving a set of them the ability to take away the game from other role-players shows a very real gap in critical thinking if I can use that term without too much comedy.
And if you want to try to sell me on the idea that the chat ban system is a free market concept designed to put power into the hands of the people who are active in that system, consider this:
How many email address can be made by someone in 24 hours. How many PWE accounts can be created by someone in 24 hours? How many people can be chat banned by that one person in 24 hours? Not be too Godwin about it but it seems tantamount to digital terrorism, very literally power in the wrong hands.
The sad truth is that Cryptic and PWE are going to have to do the work anyway. They are going to have to go through the logs, deal with the tickets, find the offenders and punish the guilty anyway. In addition they will have to put in the time and effort to avoid the scenario I outline above smacking of someone planning for four hours to get out of an hour’s work.
How much easier everything would have been if they had just done the work the first time.
But if Cryptic and PWE still believe in their little corporate hearts that the players are the right people for the job of banning other players I wonder if they might advance me a loan of several trillion AD.
Don’t worry, the players will pay you back.
I can understand why this system has been implemented but if it only takes 5 (IIRC) players to maliciously ruin another player's fun like this then that's just ridiculous.
Makes it impossible to even send private tells to look for groups........ rubbish!
I agree with you 100% seriously 100%!
Just the other day right after the whole AD exploit thing when the servers came back up, someone was openly complaining that the AH wasn't online. I decided to message this individual and let him know that a day or two of downtime on the AH isn't bad considering that Guildwars 2 had it's auction system for down for about a MONTH!
This individual, and I quote, said, "Shut the **** up, I didn't ask for your input you piece of ****, welcome to not being able to chat at all."
I wasn't rude, I wasn't teasing, I simply gave information to help to try to relieve some stress off the guy's shoulders and the AH being down, instead, I got viciously attacked and then was ignored by several people at once causing me to not be able to talk for a full 24 hours.
Why did I get banned from the chat system when someone OPENLY COMPLAINED IN ZONE CHAT and I only offered info to help quell his anger?
Remember, you need MULTIPLE people to ignore you for this to happen, so all this kid did was tell his friends in guild chat to ignore me and they probably weren't even in the zone at the time.
The system is ****. End of thread.
To be honest I am not shocked just an easy way to palm something off and save money,
so open to abuse it's not even funny.
But hey, why pay people to review chat when you can charge people to manage chat.
Since I already know how much this post will affect anything: **** YOU PERFECT WORLD ENT. **** YOU WITH A SANDPAPER CONDOM
- Check how often you are spamming the channel. If you are spamming a lot, then say 40 unique people ignore you. (made up number), then you are chat ban. This is a little more "fancy" that the system will check for messages, repeats, and frequency.
- It shouldn't chatban on PM, guild, or email. (you can STILL individually ignore but it won't add to mix)
- Chatman is for public channel only
Please review my campaign and I'll return the favor.
Oh, and in case nobody mentioned it in this thread yet... the 20 "reports / ignores" you get are additive and not within a certain time frame. Meaning, you can be 24 hour chat banned if you accumulate 20 "reports / ignores" within a day, a week, a month, etc. Dumbest sh*t I've ever seen in a MMO.
Please review my campaign and I'll return the favor.
Obviously I meant before you get banned, all of the "reports / ignores" are added up. Not in a span of a day or two, but throughout your entire playtime. If it doesn't get reset after you get banned, then you'll be perma-chat banned. Duh
I was in a pug CN group when they wanted to exploit the instances i said i didnt want to exploit i wanted to juts do it normal. They said well GTFO **** and said enjoy your 24 hour chat ban.... 2 seconds later i had a 24 chat ban... basically he had his guild report me for chat spam. So ya not working as intended.
I'm not sure where you get your facts, but i see spammers all day in trade and I get at least 2-3 a week in my inbox. All of them attempting to sell me gold.
It is both actually.
Ignores and Report Spams both accumulate points towards chatbanning you.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
It wasn't the admins - it was other players ignoring or reporting you as a spammer. I have yet to see/hear a GM or moderator live, in-game.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
It wasnt admins or other people reporting you. Its a built in system to try and fight gold sellers. You typed in the name of a known site and were promptly banned. Thats all. No admins involved at all.
A lot of negative feedback about game just wouldn't happen if they had an efficent support system in place. Don't know why they are so cheap in that department. Game not being sub based just isn't an excuse - the only reason it isn't sub based is that it earns more as f2p.
You started a thread about this and it got locked. So now you try posting it in another thread? Are you trying to get banned? Again?
This. It wouldn't happen if a human were processing the text. Computer programs aren't very good at context or nuance. Go through customer service and get it straightened out.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
There are no live GM's in this game, let alone any monitoring chat, they cant afford it. It is all automated, it may state a GM silenced you but that GM was a automatic Bot. If the GM were live it would take 2 seconds to check chat and see no problem or whatever, instead there is no grey area, if you hit enough lines to HAMSTER people off or type the wrong thing, you go bye bye.
Operating profit of about 21 million USD last quarter...
http://www.pwrd.com/html/en/pdf/13_05_en_final.pdf