Now, you can choose to discredit me if you want, but here are some examples of chatban I've seen:
Someone created a monkey character- on SIGHT, he was ignored and silenced.
Someone advertised a costume contest, ignored and silenced.
Someone said Wolverine was a lame character, ignored and silenced.
Someone was asking where the tailor was (a place where Champions players can change the look of their avatars)
Someone advertises a PvP competition...
Someone mentions DCUO...
Someone mentions WoW...
With all due respect, we don't actually know there isn't more to the story in the cases you cite. People who are banned in games often don't tell the truth about the reason they were banned.
0
denverralphyMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 145Bounty Hunter
With all due respect, we don't actually know there isn't more to the story in the cases you cite. People who are banned in games often don't tell the truth about the reason they were banned.
+1
All too often, the player who gets silenced conveniently leaves out the part where s/he spammed or trolled the chat. They completely ignore their behavior and blame it on the system.
And there are no gold sellers in this game. There haven't been any since 2009 for any Cryptic games.
I beg to differ, I saw 3 different @handles in under an hour last night after the servers came back up. I was only able to "report spam" on one though, as the chat moves very quickly on Dragon. I also saw a few during the closed beta weekends, which really shocked me.
I have several characters, and I was pulling their resources from their appropriate inventories and compiling them into one shared storage for my main character. In doing so, since you have to 'log off' during a Cryptic game to change characters, and log back in- it spammed the channel. Not to mention, I play in /hide mode, which means as soon as I log on, it shows me as logging in and logging right back off again. So, you can see how this would spam up a chat box if you were on a friends list with me.
A couple of people got tired of it and reported me, silencing me for 24 hours. I had not said a word. My only fault was not being more selective in the friends on my list, or not letting people know.
I'd say definitely in choosing your friends. Having played WoW & EQ2 for years, the FIRST thing I would do if i noticed this behaviour would be to attempt to get hold of you to find out WHY you're bouncing like that & warn you that if I did not get a response I'd be reporting your account as hacked.
Again, let me make it clear: I am in favor of being able to ignore someone. I am in favor of people being silenced, BUT-
-No small handful of players should be able to silence someone entirely, it should be reviewed by a GM.
-24 Hours is WAY too much. Even WoW only does so in cumulative amounts, starting with 15 minutes, or an hour if I remember correctly.
I believe it's 3 hours for the first ban, but it's also given AFTER a GM reviews complaints sent by other players requesting action. It's not automatic.
-It is not your place to determine what is good for the entire community's eyes. If something bothers us as individuals, /ignore is more than enough to end the interaction. If it's too bad and needs to be addressed, it should go to a GM and be reported. Chances are, the same jerks that are saying vile things in chat will be back in 24 hours if you just silence them. Harsh offenders should be adequately reported.
I think the system is good, the implementation is poor. What ~should~ happen is, many players complain about another player by /ignore or /report spam in a very short time. This generates a notification to whatever GM's are on at that time, who can then review chat logs to see what's going on. If they see that someone is indeed breaking the rules, they silence that person. If they do NOT find evidence of this, then they go back to the players who made the complaints & warn them that their activities, if continued will result in action against THEM rather than the person they are trying to get silenced. For some reason, the GM participation has been removed from the equation, resulting in a system that can be easily exploited to make other players miserable. I can only suppose that perhaps it's a money-saving option; it's very time-consuming to research chat logs & having the system operate in the manner I described would require several GM's to be online & in game at a time. I completely agree that the decision to /ignore someone because they're annoying/voicing personal opinions which are upsetting or inappropriate to me/using language I don't care to see (yes I know there's a filter, but seeing lines of "%$%* $*((&($^$ *(&$ game $%$&..." you get the idea)/or are spamming something I don't want to be a part of or see should be MINE and not be some sort of "black mark" against another player. Perhaps Mr/s. Vulgar Language had a really really horrible day & is taking it out in chat, but normally NEVER talks like that. Perhaps Mr/s. Spams-my-idea-constantly is just SUPER excited about his/her idea that day & wants feedback. The GM's in game should have the final say on whether someone gets hit with a banstick, NOT the players.
With all due respect, we don't actually know there isn't more to the story in the cases you cite. People who are banned in games often don't tell the truth about the reason they were banned.
Its awfully hard to tell your side of things when your ability to communicate, truth or otherwise, is removed. (Insert troll grin here)
With all due respect, we don't actually know there isn't more to the story in the cases you cite. People who are banned in games often don't tell the truth about the reason they were banned.
This comes up almost every time. It's not always the case though.
The system does get abused. People have gotten chat banned while they are under a chat ban. Regardless of what they did to get the original one, you can't spam while you're chat banned. So being double chat banned is obviously the result of abuse.
I've never complained about the chat bans I've received because I can be annoying sometimes. That's fine. But I've seen people be chat banned for all the wrong reasons.
With all due respect, we don't actually know there isn't more to the story in the cases you cite. People who are banned in games often don't tell the truth about the reason they were banned.
A well respected Super Group known as ARC in the other game gets it members trolled often this way when the hold costume contests.
And you missing the point the system is busted because the ignore button is linked to report spam and this exists EVEN if the report button doesnt appear in on of the 3 games because the games share a chat server. So say it takes 5 report spams to mute someone for 24 hour if you get 2 IGNORES in one game and 3 IGNORES in another bamo ur silenced in ALL games. Ignoring someone you dont like isnt wrong but because its linked to the spam button it still fires it off :<
With all due respect, we don't actually know there isn't more to the story in the cases you cite. People who are banned in games often don't tell the truth about the reason they were banned.
It doesn't even matter if they're telling the truth, to be one hundred percent. Remember- about ten people over the course of several months can cause you to be silenced for 24 hours. So, the monkey could have been making obnoxious animal emotes. The guy advertising the costume contest could have been repeating the same post every ten seconds. Someone could have referenced the body hair composition of Wolverine's groin area in disgusting detail. So on and so forth.
The point is, it wasn't a GM that silenced them. It was players. So, while you keep smiling happily with this little feature, swearing it's awesome because it silences trolls and greifers- remember that those trolls and greifers have this same feature and they CAN an WILL use it.
Don't believe me? Go into a trade channel and undercut someone selling a high-value item immediately after they post.
EDIT:
You can also report spam on others if you have been silenced. So, if someone knows you've had their friend silenced? Prepare for retaliation.
Welcome to the asylum. The inmates are in charge. Your shiv won't protect you, because we all have one.
With all due respect, we don't actually know there isn't more to the story in the cases you cite. People who are banned in games often don't tell the truth about the reason they were banned.
You can't imagin for what stupid reasons people get silenced over in CO.
My personal worst case was because I refused an offer of 80 G for two very rare boss drops that would usually go for at least 4000 G each (Warlord costume pieces, if that tells you something).
A fellow forumite even got banned once for not selling a costume piece he had already unlocked, which means that the unlocking item was long gone and not tradable anymore!
Or that one case where nepht's niece got banned by people because they thought from her @handle that she was Brazilian, which is undeniably wrong on many levels!
And then there are the all too common cases where a bunch of griefers silences random people just for the lulz.
But GMs silencing people who spread word about design flaws is by far the worst offense.
As for the gold sellers: Trust me, they will go away on their own soon.
Neverwinter is a new game, and they are trying to cash in on it. But it will soon become obvious that Gold is so easy to farm here, trying to sell it for real money will become pointless.
In my oppinion, ^that is Cryptic's most effective defense against gold sellers.
0
walkerMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
man I spam general all day with nonsensical troll posts and am yet to come under this
cheers for this bit of comedy gold, now if anyone gets really PM spammy in RAGE mode, I can mute him for 24 hours by simply telling my guild to ignore him.... and then take it off and repeat again on the morrow
this is a great tool thanks for the heads up
as you can see this is a perfect example of WHY the system is such a bad idea... its like youtube and googles automatic account removal when you hit so many detriments even if you are doing nothing wrong just cause a corporation reports you for "TALKING" about a game (im looking at you SEGA)
I don't know if this has been mentioned yet (I'm at work and can't read the entire thread), but...
I've also seen the chat ban system used to manipulate the free market...
In CO, a player who was selling Cosmic Keys for 100g got chat banned by another who was selling them for 110g. The chat ban system was used to eliminate sales competition...
Originally Posted by mijjestic: Ultimately, though, MMO players throwing stones at each other in this fashion is basically one nerd pointing and laughing at another nerd whose glasses are thicker.
P2P ones have GMs/moderators polizing the chats
F2P craps use automated systems to save a salary
enjoy paying 10 bucks for the most basic commodity (bag) that is free in 99,99999% of the MMOs in the market, and still get absolutly no support or interest from the developer
You can't imagin for what stupid reasons people get silenced over in CO.
My personal worst case was because I refused an offer of 80 G for two very rare boss drops that would usually go for at least 4000 G each (Warlord costume pieces, if that tells you something).
How do you know that's the guy who banned you?
Also -- again, with all due respect -- how do we know you're not stretching the truth or leaving something out?
who was the person who got chatbanned in CO ,while not playing for a week? They came on to find that they were four hours into a ban.
so how were they spamming
Also -- again, with all due respect -- how do we know you're not stretching the truth or leaving something out?
Cause Rokuro is mostly harmless does not have one troll bone in his body. Seen him about CO and STO and the dude is a petal. If someone takes offense to this Rokuro they would take offense to a basket full of kittens :P
Sorry Rokuro you are mostly harmless take it as a compliment.
Also -- again, with all due respect -- how do we know you're not stretching the truth or leaving something out?
Allow me to put it into perspective.
You are playing loud music in your apartment. 5 people in your complex get annoyed and go over to your home, without saying a word to you- unplug your stereo, cut your phone line, tape your mouth shut, and cover your windows and handcuff you to the radiator. No one calls the cops. Cops never know.
Perhaps you were being too loud. Or maybe not, but they heard your song and didn't like it. Or perhaps they wanted their stereo system to be louder. Who gives a ****?
They are not the police. The POLICE should be the ones making you be quiet, not them.
Because that person was the only one with a reason to do it. An incredibly stupid reason, but still.
Rule 32? Sorry, but my word is all I can offer.
Next time I get silenced, I'll take screenshots and save the chat log for you. :rolleyes:
For nepht's case, there's an own thread on the CO forums. I'll leave it to her to link it.
Please understand, I'm only asking questions, not making accusations. The idea that a company interested in making profit would intentionally create and leave a system in place that is as flawed as described here is difficult to believe. I'm trying to make sense of this.
Please understand, I'm only asking questions, not making accusations. The idea that a company interested in making profit would intentionally create and leave a system in place that is as flawed as described is difficult to believe. I'm trying to make sense of this.
^__^ well more people know its a thing now even if we dont 100% agree with each other and we can all take steps to avoid this pitfall. Sounds like a win thread to me.
Um, call me slow, but I think it sounds like a great system. Unless I'm missing something - how do the Greifers and trolls exploit it?
The reason why it's not a good system is (and this will most likely become apparent shortly since this is launch) that trolls as a revenge mechanism will be able to ban people by reporting them. All they have to do is get their peeps together and act as one if one of them gets banned for being obnoxious. That means it can be exploited and will against people who don't deserve it but dislike their common stupid clogging statements that keep regular help and regular chat from happening in zone.
One of my personal least favorites lately has been "WoW was the first mmo" that I keep seeing constantly. Was trying to help people who are founders out by posting the replies to people's questions about where to pickup their founder stuff and all I kept seeing was this over and over again.
In STO it's been a problem in ESD because bored trolls will get their buddies together and mass report people completely cutting off an entire channel of folks for 24 hours, I've seen it happen, was the quietest ESD Zone chat I've ever seen, except for their own chat that they were spewing all over the channel and it was just a few of them too.
Please understand, I'm only asking questions, not making accusations. The idea that a company interested in making profit would intentionally create and leave a system in place that is as flawed as described here is difficult to believe. I'm trying to make sense of this.
If you go back a few pages you can see that I linked to a post from one of the Cryptic Studios employees admitting that the system is getting abused, and also saying that it can't be removed.
They know it's there, they know it's broken, they haven't done anything about it.
You are playing loud music in your apartment. 5 people in your complex get annoyed and go over to your home, without saying a word to you- unplug your stereo, cut your phone line, tape your mouth shut, and cover your windows and handcuff you to the radiator. No one calls the cops. Cops never know.
Perhaps you were being too loud. Or maybe not, but they heard your song and didn't like it. Or perhaps they wanted their stereo system to be louder. Who gives a ****?
They are not the police. The POLICE should be the ones making you be quiet, not them.
I understand your point and I respect your position. I hope you won't be offended that I'm not entirely convinced that policing in a game must always be done by a GM. That would certainly be the ideal, but it may not be financially feasible. Perhaps the chat ban system could work if the threshold were higher, i.e., if it required 25 or more people to chat ban somebody. It seems that griefers would have a hard time finding that many co-conspirators, and it would still allow chatbanning of really obnoxious players.
I understand your point and I respect your position. I hope you won't be offended that I'm not entirely convinced that policing in a game must always be done by a GM. That would certainly be the ideal, but it may not be financially feasible. Perhaps the chat ban system could work if the threshold were higher, i.e., if it required 25 or more people to chat ban somebody. It seems that griefers would have a hard time finding that many co-conspirators, and it would still allow chatbanning of really obnoxious players.
It would also have to let the complaints expire and have the means of finding out if this particular person was in the same channel, and how many posts- as well as send in a 'snapshot' of the chat that could be seen between the offender and the reporting parties.
I understand your point and I respect your position. I hope you won't be offended that I'm not entirely convinced that policing in a game must always be done by a GM. That would certainly be the ideal, but it may not be financially feasible. Perhaps the chat ban system could work if the threshold were higher, i.e., if it required 25 or more people to chat ban somebody. It seems that griefers would have a hard time finding that many co-conspirators, and it would still allow chatbanning of really obnoxious players.
More ignores and with a denerit decay. A gold seller isn't going to get reported just once every few hours. They get piled on and that's why the chat ban system works so quickly. If someone got ignored 3 days ago by a couple people and then again a week from now, those ignores from 3 days ago shouldn't go toward counting you as a gold seller (the people who the chat ban system was intended for).
We all are. But the best reason I can imagin is that this system is simply a lot cheaper than a GM.
Well, Neverwinter has GMs for now. But as said before, the automated chat ban is coded into Cryptic's chat server. If it was removed, none of their games would have it anymore. That would be most desirable for us players, but for Cryptic it means that three, eventually four GM teams would need to be hired.
yes being able to ban gold sellers is good. Being able to stop people talking ingame for not liking what they are saying, no.
The ignore function and report spam(which actual is described as report gold seller) should be seperate.
The list of rorts for this is long and lets not forget a particular guild.
Comments
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?131521-being-suspended-from-chat
And keep in mind, this didn't happen in open beta. The game was still in closed beta at the time.
+1
All too often, the player who gets silenced conveniently leaves out the part where s/he spammed or trolled the chat. They completely ignore their behavior and blame it on the system.
I beg to differ, I saw 3 different @handles in under an hour last night after the servers came back up. I was only able to "report spam" on one though, as the chat moves very quickly on Dragon. I also saw a few during the closed beta weekends, which really shocked me.
I think the system is good, the implementation is poor. What ~should~ happen is, many players complain about another player by /ignore or /report spam in a very short time. This generates a notification to whatever GM's are on at that time, who can then review chat logs to see what's going on. If they see that someone is indeed breaking the rules, they silence that person. If they do NOT find evidence of this, then they go back to the players who made the complaints & warn them that their activities, if continued will result in action against THEM rather than the person they are trying to get silenced. For some reason, the GM participation has been removed from the equation, resulting in a system that can be easily exploited to make other players miserable. I can only suppose that perhaps it's a money-saving option; it's very time-consuming to research chat logs & having the system operate in the manner I described would require several GM's to be online & in game at a time. I completely agree that the decision to /ignore someone because they're annoying/voicing personal opinions which are upsetting or inappropriate to me/using language I don't care to see (yes I know there's a filter, but seeing lines of "%$%* $*((&($^$ *(&$ game $%$&..." you get the idea)/or are spamming something I don't want to be a part of or see should be MINE and not be some sort of "black mark" against another player. Perhaps Mr/s. Vulgar Language had a really really horrible day & is taking it out in chat, but normally NEVER talks like that. Perhaps Mr/s. Spams-my-idea-constantly is just SUPER excited about his/her idea that day & wants feedback. The GM's in game should have the final say on whether someone gets hit with a banstick, NOT the players.
Its awfully hard to tell your side of things when your ability to communicate, truth or otherwise, is removed. (Insert troll grin here)
This comes up almost every time. It's not always the case though.
The system does get abused. People have gotten chat banned while they are under a chat ban. Regardless of what they did to get the original one, you can't spam while you're chat banned. So being double chat banned is obviously the result of abuse.
I've never complained about the chat bans I've received because I can be annoying sometimes. That's fine. But I've seen people be chat banned for all the wrong reasons.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
A well respected Super Group known as ARC in the other game gets it members trolled often this way when the hold costume contests.
And you missing the point the system is busted because the ignore button is linked to report spam and this exists EVEN if the report button doesnt appear in on of the 3 games because the games share a chat server. So say it takes 5 report spams to mute someone for 24 hour if you get 2 IGNORES in one game and 3 IGNORES in another bamo ur silenced in ALL games. Ignoring someone you dont like isnt wrong but because its linked to the spam button it still fires it off :<
Excuse my english :I
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
It doesn't even matter if they're telling the truth, to be one hundred percent. Remember- about ten people over the course of several months can cause you to be silenced for 24 hours. So, the monkey could have been making obnoxious animal emotes. The guy advertising the costume contest could have been repeating the same post every ten seconds. Someone could have referenced the body hair composition of Wolverine's groin area in disgusting detail. So on and so forth.
The point is, it wasn't a GM that silenced them. It was players. So, while you keep smiling happily with this little feature, swearing it's awesome because it silences trolls and greifers- remember that those trolls and greifers have this same feature and they CAN an WILL use it.
Don't believe me? Go into a trade channel and undercut someone selling a high-value item immediately after they post.
EDIT:
You can also report spam on others if you have been silenced. So, if someone knows you've had their friend silenced? Prepare for retaliation.
Welcome to the asylum. The inmates are in charge. Your shiv won't protect you, because we all have one.
You can't imagin for what stupid reasons people get silenced over in CO.
My personal worst case was because I refused an offer of 80 G for two very rare boss drops that would usually go for at least 4000 G each (Warlord costume pieces, if that tells you something).
A fellow forumite even got banned once for not selling a costume piece he had already unlocked, which means that the unlocking item was long gone and not tradable anymore!
Or that one case where nepht's niece got banned by people because they thought from her @handle that she was Brazilian, which is undeniably wrong on many levels!
And then there are the all too common cases where a bunch of griefers silences random people just for the lulz.
But GMs silencing people who spread word about design flaws is by far the worst offense.
As for the gold sellers: Trust me, they will go away on their own soon.
Neverwinter is a new game, and they are trying to cash in on it. But it will soon become obvious that Gold is so easy to farm here, trying to sell it for real money will become pointless.
In my oppinion, ^that is Cryptic's most effective defense against gold sellers.
cheers for this bit of comedy gold, now if anyone gets really PM spammy in RAGE mode, I can mute him for 24 hours by simply telling my guild to ignore him.... and then take it off and repeat again on the morrow
this is a great tool thanks for the heads up
as you can see this is a perfect example of WHY the system is such a bad idea... its like youtube and googles automatic account removal when you hit so many detriments even if you are doing nothing wrong just cause a corporation reports you for "TALKING" about a game (im looking at you SEGA)
Most pathetic system I have ever seen in my life.
Best. Post. Evar.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
I've also seen the chat ban system used to manipulate the free market...
In CO, a player who was selling Cosmic Keys for 100g got chat banned by another who was selling them for 110g. The chat ban system was used to eliminate sales competition...
Yeah... great system... :rollseyes:
M-O-O-N, that spells @Rhyatt
Originally Posted by mijjestic: Ultimately, though, MMO players throwing stones at each other in this fashion is basically one nerd pointing and laughing at another nerd whose glasses are thicker.
Laws yes!
P2P ones have GMs/moderators polizing the chats
F2P craps use automated systems to save a salary
enjoy paying 10 bucks for the most basic commodity (bag) that is free in 99,99999% of the MMOs in the market, and still get absolutly no support or interest from the developer
Someone draw this out in crayon for this guy.
Also -- again, with all due respect -- how do we know you're not stretching the truth or leaving something out?
so how were they spamming
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Cause Rokuro is mostly harmless does not have one troll bone in his body. Seen him about CO and STO and the dude is a petal. If someone takes offense to this Rokuro they would take offense to a basket full of kittens :P
Sorry Rokuro you are mostly harmless take it as a compliment.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
Allow me to put it into perspective.
You are playing loud music in your apartment. 5 people in your complex get annoyed and go over to your home, without saying a word to you- unplug your stereo, cut your phone line, tape your mouth shut, and cover your windows and handcuff you to the radiator. No one calls the cops. Cops never know.
Perhaps you were being too loud. Or maybe not, but they heard your song and didn't like it. Or perhaps they wanted their stereo system to be louder. Who gives a ****?
They are not the police. The POLICE should be the ones making you be quiet, not them.
Because that person was the only one with a reason to do it. An incredibly stupid reason, but still.
Rule 32? Sorry, but my word is all I can offer.
Next time I get silenced, I'll take screenshots and save the chat log for you. :rolleyes:
For nepht's case, there's an own thread on the CO forums. I'll leave it to her to link it.
^__^ well more people know its a thing now even if we dont 100% agree with each other and we can all take steps to avoid this pitfall. Sounds like a win thread to me.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
The reason why it's not a good system is (and this will most likely become apparent shortly since this is launch) that trolls as a revenge mechanism will be able to ban people by reporting them. All they have to do is get their peeps together and act as one if one of them gets banned for being obnoxious. That means it can be exploited and will against people who don't deserve it but dislike their common stupid clogging statements that keep regular help and regular chat from happening in zone.
One of my personal least favorites lately has been "WoW was the first mmo" that I keep seeing constantly. Was trying to help people who are founders out by posting the replies to people's questions about where to pickup their founder stuff and all I kept seeing was this over and over again.
In STO it's been a problem in ESD because bored trolls will get their buddies together and mass report people completely cutting off an entire channel of folks for 24 hours, I've seen it happen, was the quietest ESD Zone chat I've ever seen, except for their own chat that they were spewing all over the channel and it was just a few of them too.
If you go back a few pages you can see that I linked to a post from one of the Cryptic Studios employees admitting that the system is getting abused, and also saying that it can't be removed.
They know it's there, they know it's broken, they haven't done anything about it.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
It would also have to let the complaints expire and have the means of finding out if this particular person was in the same channel, and how many posts- as well as send in a 'snapshot' of the chat that could be seen between the offender and the reporting parties.
More ignores and with a denerit decay. A gold seller isn't going to get reported just once every few hours. They get piled on and that's why the chat ban system works so quickly. If someone got ignored 3 days ago by a couple people and then again a week from now, those ignores from 3 days ago shouldn't go toward counting you as a gold seller (the people who the chat ban system was intended for).
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
We all are. But the best reason I can imagin is that this system is simply a lot cheaper than a GM.
Well, Neverwinter has GMs for now. But as said before, the automated chat ban is coded into Cryptic's chat server. If it was removed, none of their games would have it anymore. That would be most desirable for us players, but for Cryptic it means that three, eventually four GM teams would need to be hired.
http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=221301
yes being able to ban gold sellers is good. Being able to stop people talking ingame for not liking what they are saying, no.
The ignore function and report spam(which actual is described as report gold seller) should be seperate.
The list of rorts for this is long and lets not forget a particular guild.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!