Field of View changes

thefabricant · March 2020

As of the current preview patch which will soon be live, pc players field of view will be limited to 50-70. This is an incredibly poorly thought out decision for the following reasons.

1. If a player wants to play on a higher FoV they can currently. If the distortions bother them, they can lower it. Nobody is forced to play using a high FoV, which means the only people punished by this change are those who want to.
2. Many people, myself included, experience headaches and nausea when on a low FoV. For me personally, this would make the game unplayable. I experience both when the FoV is under 90.

Now, the only reasons to make such a change are firstly to remove the tactical advantage of people being able to see more or secondly to force parity between pc and console players. There are no other good reasons. So deciding to do this is clearly deliberately making the game less accessible to people (as people like myself do not want to play with a headache) in an effort to artificially increase content difficulty.

I have no issues with harder content, but I do have an issue with making a game actively induce nausea into its players in order to achieve it. @nitocris83 please raise this as an issue, because I am certain this affects more than just 1 or 2 pc players.

Preview patch notes:
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1254931/infernal-descent-preview-patch-notes-nw-120-20200302a-6
Article about FoV causing headaches/nausea for reference:
https://www.howtogeek.com/241285/why-video-games-make-you-feel-sick-and-what-you-can-do-about-it/

fisenfis · March 2020

I strongly agree with this and I hope that the devs hear us out and will consider reverting the FoV changes @nitocris83 @cwhitesidedev#9752

stiggy · March 2020

Please do not go forward with this change to the FOV limit. It will ruin gameplay for many people. This is just plane stupid, and the reason they give for doing it is even more so. What kind of pressure would be less on the players by implementing this? The reasons they give dont add up at all. I really hope they come to their senses. A change like this could only make the game worse in my opinion.

nooneatza · March 2020

At the risk of getting shadowbanned, like others have got in the past for criticizing, i'll come out and say:

Part 1: The rant
Whoever thought about this either wanted to make a bad joke, or he didn't think at all.
You gave us a slider to adjust the fov, was a godsend for many, and now you're gonna set a limit on it?
Think about it, you gave the community a slider to adjust fov however they want, and now you're setting a limit on it because...? you think some players are too dumb to realise it's bad for them ?

Part 2: The constructive part of the rant
If you're really adamant about having an upper limit for some obscure reasons, make it so high that it's irrelevant. It's how other games have treated the issue and seems to work well.
OR !!!!!
Set a limit, however you see fit, but make it so players are still able to go past that limit, and put a few(not one, a few) pop up windows with warnings explaining how it will negatively impact gameplay.

thefabricant · March 2020

The fact of the matter is that nobody (not a single person) was complaining that they felt they were forced to play on a high fov in order to participate and that the game looks bad as a result of it. If you search the forums, the only complaints about fov you may see are console players asking for theirs to be raised.

This means the reason given is a pretext, it is not the real reason for making the change, because they do not want to say they are only doing it to artificially increase difficulty.

catson · March 2020

here bit of my rant:

Seriously, nobody complained that they're forced to do anything, game is much better playable at 90+ FOV 70 is way to little, you cant see at all what is standing right behind you, is this FPP or 3rd Person after all?

I was using FOV betwen 85 -95 since i got that game, one of things i hated in beginig i started to play this game that FOV sux, before someone told me that i can use gfxsetdefaultfov command to change it, and it was perfect, found my sweet spot around ~90s where game looks good and I can actually notice things i was supposed to.

@nitocris83 @cwhitesidedev#9752

plasticbat · March 2020

OMG! They are going to take the highest fov from me. I only use the max. The setting I have been using for years. Now, this is a bad joke. This will be the one that upset me the most. I do not complain much. The last one I complained about was the introduction of RQ.

@nitocris83 @cwhitesidedev#9752

jakerivers · March 2020

I have not been playing long enough to know I could of increased the FoV, or I would of done this already, the default setting makes the game hard to play, now I won't know what I have been missing out on.

plasticbat · March 2020

jakerivers said:
I have not been playing long enough to know I could of increased the FoV, or I would of done this already, the default setting makes the game hard to play, now I won't know what I have been missing out on.

Use the scroll button of your mouse to change it. You can still see the difference. They only lower the max setting.

cellablock · March 2020

this was defintiely changed in regards to tomm and ic gg devs thanks for diffut content

omgmundooo · March 2020

I already dislike the field of view change. I don't want that. Quarantine is a good moment to try other games with irl friends, i might find something better to play after all.

oldtimer · March 2020

*We will build a new and exciting world together with the community going forward*.

Too bad i won't be able to see it because my new and improved near first person FoV won't let me see jack, giving me motion sickness and forcing me to immediately quit the game if this abomination is not reverted immediately.

NOBODY asked for this and whoever pushed for it should be fired the second the quarantine is over. Such out of touch moronic incompetence cannot be tolerated.

hrakh · March 2020

This is simply a horrible change. The headache I have right not just contemplating it will be mild when compared to having to play at 70 FoV.

sundancewanderingwolf · March 2020

I agree 100% they should NOT lower our FOV. Do you, the devs, have any idea how many players you made happy by allowing us to go out to 120? We could actually SEE stuff finally.

You wanna talk about your many major and community crushing mistakes? Not giving Tower 2 instances for players to practice in was a mistake and was yet another suggestion top players on preview were asking for. Do you have any idea how helpful 120 was for people in Tower???

Why do you keep angering your players? Do you even realize that every time you do this to us you lose even more? Stop making decisions that upsets people. Like it was said above, if players don't like the 120 view, they can use the slider to move it to whatever is comfortable for them. Give us a choice! Stop taking away things that are working.
Seriously, who is making these decisions that's upsetting so many players? Fire them! Enough wrecking of the game that we love!

Those of you who know me know that I was one to defend the devs till the cows came home. Since Mod 16 I've been waiting and waiting and.... waiting for them to turn things around after the massive destruction of the game. I've been picked on for being too negative etc... so? I've been asked by a representative of the company even (very unprofessionally) why do I play? A question that that should never come from anyone who represents the company be them paid employee or not. You may wanna take a look at your moderators (side note sorry).

Know that as a business we all know that you need to make money or the entire game dies.
However... you also need to be aware that if you keep making people unhappy the game will die as well... think about it, no players, no game, no money. Sound about right? Why not find a middle ground on making money and making people happy? How about that for a business concept? Stop taking away the things that we love!
I agree, I don't know of anyone asking for this. In fact the opposite! When Mod 18 came out, I didn't know anyone who wasn't thrilled that they could use this slider! What's wrong with you? Seriously?

Give me reason to stop being so negative in regards to the changes. I love this game! I love my community! I think there have been lots of changes that have been good but when I change like this comes out, sorry but I get a bit irate.

sundancewanderingwolf · March 2020

P.S. The isn't Star Trek Online, we don't need tribbles... get rid of the ridiculous drop rate on the abyssal chickens in Avernus!
I have had enough drop to supply my entire alliance twice over but they are bound to character.

mushellka · March 2020

Another thoughtless and unwanted decision that devs make without consulting the game community. Instead of fixing bugs, increasing game performance, they introduce a hopeless and unnecessary obstacle. Delays, freezes, disconnections, HAMSTER-up mechanics - these should be your priorities, not something that causes extra discomfort for players. You really don't use your head for thinking?

rjc9000 · March 2020

PatchNotes said:
The goal of this change is to reduce the pressure on players to make the game look less readable, for the benefit of being able to see more at once. We'll keep an extra eye on feedback in case there are mechanics that become significantly more difficult with a lower maximum.

backlogger · March 2020

There is still a way to surpass the 70er limit. Under Neverwinter\Live\localdata\Gameprefs.Pref the entry
PrefEntry GfxSettings.DefaultFov 90
can set the FoV still over 70. On your next game start the prefs are loaded. Just dont use the gfxsetdefaultfov command ingame anymore as it enforces the limits. If you accidently lowered it, you can exit the game, change the gameprefs file to your preferred value and restart the game. Then you still run at your preferred FoV even outside of the limits.

thefabricant · March 2020

I know. But I also know that in 1-2 weeks you will see this loophole be fixed. Players should not have to work around things like this in order to make the game playable.

micky1p00 · March 2020

nvm

fdgfdgfd.

plasticbat · March 2020

backlogger#9457 said:
There is still a way to surpass the 70er limit. Under Neverwinter\Live\localdata\Gameprefs.Pref the entry
PrefEntry GfxSettings.DefaultFov 90
can set the FoV still over 70. On your next game start the prefs are loaded. Just dont use the gfxsetdefaultfov command ingame anymore as it enforces the limits. If you accidently lowered it, you can exit the game, change the gameprefs file to your preferred value and restart the game. Then you still run at your preferred FoV even outside of the limits.

Did they retract that? I have just got into the game and it seems there is no change.
I checked the above file. It is set to 90. I did not edit it.

thefabricant · March 2020

If you do not change your FoV, it will remain above 70. The limit will only kick in if you try to change it. This is I expect an oversight.

theelusiveone · March 2020

If your FOV was set above 70 before maint. it is unchanged after maint.
But you can't change it to anything else in game now or it will be reset to 70.

Unknown · March 2020

This content has been removed.

xsellize8 · March 2020

For me luckly are the settings from before the patch still active. But as soon as i can't change the Fov out to the limit i play with, i see no reason to play a game i get headache from.

vorena · March 2020

If my FOV is reduced to this point it will cause me motion sickness, nausea, and headaches. This will make the game unplayable for me as well. I really hope that you re-evaluate this decision as this will impact more people than you know.

bpstuart · March 2020

I really hope the Devs are paying attention because even though it is hard to notice, the FOV change is starting to hurt my eyes after 10-15 minutes of play.

Really hope they re-ethink it cause if i have to pick between the game and not having eyestrain induced migraines, the game looses.

lordaeolos · March 2020

Keep the slider at 50-70, re-enable the command so those of us that want to play at higher FoV for headache/ motion sickness reasons (this is why i don't play ESO) have the ability to. I get the "art" reasons for the FoV, but I think the game devs underestimate how nice being able to move that FoV out is for those that deal with migranes and motion sickness in games.

hades · March 2020

pls back Field of View to what it was

aragon · March 2020

I enjoy playing on 50 fov and have no issues in completing any content (tomm included). Thus I don't see the point in removing the option to have higher than 70 fov. It does not pressure you in anyway to play on higher fov just because its available.

Sure it maybe slightly easier to find Halaster when he appears in the sky, but it is still just as easy on 50 fov, just swing the camera around. For me, playing on a higher Fov limits your ability to see mechanics, and makes it harder to see exactly where your character is, so its much easier to mess up on precise positioning.

But, yeah why remove the option, it just causes more harm and discomfort to those who prefer a larger fov.

noworries · March 2020

First I'd like to make a quick comment on handling conversations on the forums. Yes, changes are going to happen and different ones are going to make different people upset for different reasons. There is nothing wrong with going to the forums when such a change occurs that you don't like, and in fact we encourage it. At the same time, it is important to have those conversations respectfully to one another, both other players and developers. Forums will only be a useful form of communication if everyone feels comfortable having conversations there.

Now onto the issue.

The FoV slider was added specifically because there are players who have physical issues with video game settings/motion at times. While there were those who knew of the command that was exposed (and it wasn't exposed intentionally) they had options previously, but many players didn't know about them. When the slider was implemented, it was never meant to go up to 120, which is why a change was made post launch.

So why is 120 a bigger issue in a game like ours than in an FPS? With an FPS, all the player typically has for adjustment is FoV, which allows for a decent range in the setting. With Neverwinter, we have both camera zoom and FoV. The two are separate and the two are also multiplicative. This means that if someone goes to max zoom and max FoV it takes the view point to an extreme that the game was never designed to have in place. It does affect visuals, it does affect mechanics, and yes it absolutely does make some players feel they need to play at those settings to get the same advantages other players have. Increasing FoV does give advantages to gameplay as even the OP in this thread points out, but that wasn't the main driver for limiting the ranges.

Let's try this conversation in a different direction:

FoV settings are needed by some players to not feel sick while playing the game. The feedback is that the current settings aren't a high enough range to fully combat that diziness/sickness. FoV with camera zoom combine to turn a view that is meant to be an action RPG game with a tighter camera, into an almost RTS level of distance from the character.

What if we increase the FoV ranges more, but at the same time bring the maximum camera zoom closer to the player? This should allow players the FoV flexibility they need, while retaining the view closer to the character as the game was designed around. Thoughts on this approach?

Field of View changes

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