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Field of View changes

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  • thefabricantthefabricant Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,247 Arc User
    edited March 2020
    I am personally fine with limiting the zoom but increasing the FoV. Playing with an FoV of 70 is just not an option for me, after 10-15 minutes I feel sick and need to lie down.

    If that is the requirement to have a higher FoV then I am all for it. I just want to be able to play the game for periods longer than 10 minutes.
  • micky1p00micky1p00 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,461 Arc User
    edited March 2020
    I'm playing at zoomed out (or halfway zoomed) 70-80 FoV, because I prefer the camera to be at least third person with some surrounding awareness, yet with char details, and without the fish-eye distortion of the large FoV.

    If it's possible to get that, and other people not to have motion sickness, awesome. But fish eye or camera in my HAMSTER is not great...Though I guess we can somewhat compromise for other to be able to play..

    Addon:
    While I do like the zoom option on the wheel, being honest, I mostly use about 2-3 settings, usual one for game-play and zoomed in to see fashion / transmute details. Before the wheel I had 2 binds for FoV. So that's my experience.
  • lordaeoloslordaeolos Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 167 Arc User

    First I'd like to make a quick comment on handling conversations on the forums. Yes, changes are going to happen and different ones are going to make different people upset for different reasons. There is nothing wrong with going to the forums when such a change occurs that you don't like, and in fact we encourage it. At the same time, it is important to have those conversations respectfully to one another, both other players and developers. Forums will only be a useful form of communication if everyone feels comfortable having conversations there.


    Now onto the issue.

    The FoV slider was added specifically because there are players who have physical issues with video game settings/motion at times. While there were those who knew of the command that was exposed (and it wasn't exposed intentionally) they had options previously, but many players didn't know about them. When the slider was implemented, it was never meant to go up to 120, which is why a change was made post launch.

    So why is 120 a bigger issue in a game like ours than in an FPS? With an FPS, all the player typically has for adjustment is FoV, which allows for a decent range in the setting. With Neverwinter, we have both camera zoom and FoV. The two are separate and the two are also multiplicative. This means that if someone goes to max zoom and max FoV it takes the view point to an extreme that the game was never designed to have in place. It does affect visuals, it does affect mechanics, and yes it absolutely does make some players feel they need to play at those settings to get the same advantages other players have. Increasing FoV does give advantages to gameplay as even the OP in this thread points out, but that wasn't the main driver for limiting the ranges.


    Let's try this conversation in a different direction:

    FoV settings are needed by some players to not feel sick while playing the game. The feedback is that the current settings aren't a high enough range to fully combat that diziness/sickness. FoV with camera zoom combine to turn a view that is meant to be an action RPG game with a tighter camera, into an almost RTS level of distance from the character.

    What if we increase the FoV ranges more, but at the same time bring the maximum camera zoom closer to the player? This should allow players the FoV flexibility they need, while retaining the view closer to the character as the game was designed around. Thoughts on this approach?

    If I'm playing at 1080 I need the FoV set at 100 + the camera zoomed all the way out not to get motion sickness, especially when on mounts with run animations, even at those settings I can not use the boots of the misty step, or the Dinosaur mounts. When I play at 4k I'm ok with FoV at 90 + camera zoomed all the way out in most scenarios. For me it's a combination of FoV + zoom. playing at a FoV of 90 with the zoom all the way in gives me "Simulator Sickness" in about 10-15 minutes of game play, so basically I can't even play a full dungeon.

    Here is a really good article that talks about Motion Sickness and Video Games: https://www.howtogeek.com/241285/why-video-games-make-you-feel-sick-and-what-you-can-do-about-it/

    Please note that this blog post points out FoV as the leading cause of people getting sick.

    On a side note, one of the draws to Neverwinter for me, and part of the reason I have played this game for the last 7 years is that I have had the ability to set my FoV out to 100. This is one of the few action games that doesn't either give me a splitting headache, or leave me feeling extremely nauseous with less than 10 minutes of game play, and that is almost entirely down to FoV and zoom settings.
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  • zimxero#8085 zimxero Member Posts: 876 Arc User
    I play the game zoomed all the way out, then in one increment. I have never messed with FOV. As the game zooms in, it take too much time for range & target players to find their targets. I definitely like it out, but thats me.
  • hrakhhrakh Member Posts: 147 Arc User

    First I'd like to make a quick comment on handling conversations on the forums. Yes, changes are going to happen and different ones are going to make different people upset for different reasons. There is nothing wrong with going to the forums when such a change occurs that you don't like, and in fact we encourage it. At the same time, it is important to have those conversations respectfully to one another, both other players and developers. Forums will only be a useful form of communication if everyone feels comfortable having conversations there.


    Now onto the issue.

    The FoV slider was added specifically because there are players who have physical issues with video game settings/motion at times. While there were those who knew of the command that was exposed (and it wasn't exposed intentionally) they had options previously, but many players didn't know about them. When the slider was implemented, it was never meant to go up to 120, which is why a change was made post launch.

    So why is 120 a bigger issue in a game like ours than in an FPS? With an FPS, all the player typically has for adjustment is FoV, which allows for a decent range in the setting. With Neverwinter, we have both camera zoom and FoV. The two are separate and the two are also multiplicative. This means that if someone goes to max zoom and max FoV it takes the view point to an extreme that the game was never designed to have in place. It does affect visuals, it does affect mechanics, and yes it absolutely does make some players feel they need to play at those settings to get the same advantages other players have. Increasing FoV does give advantages to gameplay as even the OP in this thread points out, but that wasn't the main driver for limiting the ranges.


    Let's try this conversation in a different direction:

    FoV settings are needed by some players to not feel sick while playing the game. The feedback is that the current settings aren't a high enough range to fully combat that diziness/sickness. FoV with camera zoom combine to turn a view that is meant to be an action RPG game with a tighter camera, into an almost RTS level of distance from the character.

    What if we increase the FoV ranges more, but at the same time bring the maximum camera zoom closer to the player? This should allow players the FoV flexibility they need, while retaining the view closer to the character as the game was designed around. Thoughts on this approach?

    I for one am good with this approach. I need the higher FoV to not suffer dizziness/headaches on my monitor.
    While I certainly like having a lot of overview, this is not critical and I understand the argument of it being an advantage, So more FoV, less zoom works for me. Heck it worked for me before I even used the Zoom settings.

    I also appreciate the fuller explanation and would suggest that it may be better to post more complete arguments in or with the patch notes in future. The "pressure" argument did not exactly go over well, Well that or do not include a rationale. No explanation is never my preference, but it generates less ire than a easily misunderstood one that fuels too many personal interpretations.

  • fisenfisfisenfis Member Posts: 133 Arc User
    edited March 2020
    Maybe I'm missing something here but... why is it so bad that the fov goes to 120? Sure it becomes distorted to a point but its up to the player to customize how far out they want to go. I would like to know why it is such a big issue? Who wanted these changes? We mean no disrespect but I fail to see an actual reason behind the changes other, the slider was an amazing addition but now feel extremely trivialized. The suggestion to keep the slider as is but make it so we can change it with the "setvfx" command was a good one but to be honest: why not just go back to what we had? It wasn't broken, so why "fix" it.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 9,816 Arc User
    edited March 2020
    I play with zoom all the way out and FOV 90.
    The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will.
  • sundancewanderingwolfsundancewanderingwolf Member Posts: 84 Arc User
    edited March 2020

    There is still a way to surpass the 70er limit. Under Neverwinter\Live\localdata\Gameprefs.Pref the entry
    PrefEntry GfxSettings.DefaultFov 90
    can set the FoV still over 70. On your next game start the prefs are loaded. Just dont use the gfxsetdefaultfov command ingame anymore as it enforces the limits. If you accidently lowered it, you can exit the game, change the gameprefs file to your preferred value and restart the game. Then you still run at your preferred FoV even outside of the limits.

    I tested the old code for text today on preview, no go! :( Will have to try what you're suggesting.
  • bgart1962#5526 bgart1962 Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    Agree. Please restore the FOV setting back to the way it was.
  • longherslonghers Member Posts: 12 Arc User
    Well team cryptic i must admit that you lot are anything but dull these days. Why do you always have to go changing things in the game that are not need at this time and brake the game even more for your player base. Rather than just fixing what is need to make your game better. Then maybe ask your player base what they think of new changes that you are thinking of bringing into the game and have a discussion about it rather than just ninja changes that is not even required.

    @the entire team of cryptic
  • mentinmindmakermentinmindmaker Member Posts: 1,254 Arc User


    What if we increase the FoV ranges more, but at the same time bring the maximum camera zoom closer to the player? This should allow players the FoV flexibility they need, while retaining the view closer to the character as the game was designed around. Thoughts on this approach?

    Increasing FoV significantly screws with my head due to the graphics distortion.

    I use the zoom range to get sufficient view of the field around me.

    I have no opinion of what max FoV should be, but I would like to see max zoom distance increased. I do NOT NOT want to see a reduction in max zoom distance.
  • feuerwolf#3519 feuerwolf Member Posts: 14 Arc User
    Reminder:

    First I'd like to make a quick comment on handling conversations on the forums. Yes, changes are going to happen and different ones are going to make different people upset for different reasons. There is nothing wrong with going to the forums when such a change occurs that you don't like, and in fact we encourage it. At the same time, it is important to have those conversations respectfully to one another, both other players and developers. Forums will only be a useful form of communication if everyone feels comfortable having conversations there.

    personal opinion:

    Damn, you guys seriously overreact to get what you want. If looking at a screen nearly kills you, then don't play computer games...

  • jules#6770 jules Member Posts: 668 Arc User
    <blockquote class="Quote" rel="vordayn">
    Yet I never heard anyone complain that they had to play at higher FoV settings.
    </blockquote>
    Me neither.
    Sometimes, every once inbetween mods and people are not super busy, this is a recommondation.
    "Try it, I try this and that" and you find a handful of people agreeing to running 80-100 or whatnot. Thats it. No anything.

    It sounds like I'm suddenly supposed to bully people for not running my FoV. lmao. All I want is to be able to play any dungeon through, cause people have a hard time with "oh can we wait for half an hour, I have to close my eyes real quick".
    - bye bye -
  • baronvonboombaronvonboom Member Posts: 536 Arc User
    edited March 2020

    Thoughts on this approach?

    No.

    Roll it back a touch, sure not the 120 but 90-100 maybe? (personally only use up to 80)
    Dont go messing with a closer view as it will all just barrel roll out of control until were all going blind or mad playing the game


  • matii#4660 matii Member Posts: 75 Arc User

    What if we increase the FoV ranges more, but at the same time bring the maximum camera zoom closer to the player? This should allow players the FoV flexibility they need, while retaining the view closer to the character as the game was designed around. Thoughts on this approach?

    Will the relationship between FoV and camera zoom change dynamically?
    If so, that's good for me. But if not, it really worries me as a console player. We are already at 55 FoV and if you reduce camera zoom for us, it will be very bad
  • gaste#4798 gaste Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    I also am against these changes. For instance, I was farming in SOMI last night and within a few minutes I felt nauseous after just 2 minutes of play time. Please for the love of all things sacred to player choice, reset it back to it's former settings.
  • sobi#1980 sobi Member Posts: 401 Arc User



    What if we increase the FoV ranges more, but at the same time bring the maximum camera zoom closer to the player? This should allow players the FoV flexibility they need, while retaining the view closer to the character as the game was designed around. Thoughts on this approach?

    I think setting the FOV maximum anywhere between 90-100 would be a good option and you can proportionally increase the maximum camera zoom to the player.

    From what i have read, the console players are playing at base FOV of 55, and if they do not have the FOV slider then closing in the maximum zoom capability may harm them, especially for those that were already playing at maximum lowest zoom already. If they already have the FOV slider then there is no issue.


  • trgluestickztrgluestickz Member Posts: 1,119 Arc User
    edited March 2020

    First I'd like to make a quick comment on handling conversations on the forums. Yes, changes are going to happen and different ones are going to make different people upset for different reasons. There is nothing wrong with going to the forums when such a change occurs that you don't like, and in fact we encourage it. At the same time, it is important to have those conversations respectfully to one another, both other players and developers. Forums will only be a useful form of communication if everyone feels comfortable having conversations there.


    Now onto the issue.

    The FoV slider was added specifically because there are players who have physical issues with video game settings/motion at times. While there were those who knew of the command that was exposed (and it wasn't exposed intentionally) they had options previously, but many players didn't know about them. When the slider was implemented, it was never meant to go up to 120, which is why a change was made post launch.

    So why is 120 a bigger issue in a game like ours than in an FPS? With an FPS, all the player typically has for adjustment is FoV, which allows for a decent range in the setting. With Neverwinter, we have both camera zoom and FoV. The two are separate and the two are also multiplicative. This means that if someone goes to max zoom and max FoV it takes the view point to an extreme that the game was never designed to have in place. It does affect visuals, it does affect mechanics, and yes it absolutely does make some players feel they need to play at those settings to get the same advantages other players have. Increasing FoV does give advantages to gameplay as even the OP in this thread points out, but that wasn't the main driver for limiting the ranges.


    Let's try this conversation in a different direction:

    FoV settings are needed by some players to not feel sick while playing the game. The feedback is that the current settings aren't a high enough range to fully combat that diziness/sickness. FoV with camera zoom combine to turn a view that is meant to be an action RPG game with a tighter camera, into an almost RTS level of distance from the character.

    What if we increase the FoV ranges more, but at the same time bring the maximum camera zoom closer to the player? This should allow players the FoV flexibility they need, while retaining the view closer to the character as the game was designed around. Thoughts on this approach?

    Just put the FOV setting back to how it was before the patch and leave it alone please. I'm not cool with even the compromised version.

    If you absolutely insist on changing the FOV, at least make it so we can raise our FOVs to 90, this seems to be a sweetspot and I've heard a lot of people over the years mention that they set theirs to 90. However, I've also heard several people say they raise their FOV to 100 so a limit of 100 would cover more players.

    You are claiming some people feel like they are forced to play at a higher FOV but there is a clear lack of evidence of this being a widespread issue, or even existing at all from where I'm standing. Instead, what you have is a lot of evidence that most players hate the reduced FOV limit, you also have a few players saying they don't want the zoom changed either. 

    I personally set my FOV to 80, 85, or 90. I've been using 90 the most these days but had it at 85 for a long time. I have tried numbers lower than 80 before and I hate it, it is disorienting and negatively impacts my gameplay experience and performance a lot.

    I vaguely remember playing this game a long time ago with the default FOV of 55 before I knew how to change the FOV. I was really happy when someone showed me the command to change my FOV, I increased my FOV and it was like a brand new world for me, this significantly improved my gameplay experience and performance moving forwards.
    Come to think of it, I don't think I've ever heard anybody say they prefer the default FOV of 55 so never really understood why that even is the default, it seems like everyone changes it as soon as they know how to, and they always increase it too, they don't lower it.

    A long time ago, the zoom option got added to the keybinds menu and a huge graphics change was implemented at the same time that made everything look rounder and more toned, instead of flattened out. I liked how my mounts looked rounded and toned but hated how short their tails got. Unfortunately, that same change also made the world feel really compacted and produced a movement illusion I couldn't stand, It made it so I always felt like I was running much slower than I really was. That illusion of always running really slowly made the game unplayable for me and I wanted the long mount tails back too, so I spent hours playing with both the zoom and the FOV command until I got it back to how it looked before those changes were implemented.
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  • blag001blag001 Member Posts: 198 Arc User
    edited March 2020
    That's a bad idea!
    The actual limit of FoV is a joke. All I can see its the butt of my horse and the neck of my char.
    I want to see the things around me, the enemies I'm fighting with, see what I'm doing.
    It's being annoying to play with such change.

    So, here's my comment to your "eye open on feedback".... allow us to use distant view again, allow us to see over the limit of 70, which is too close!

    "What if we increase the FoV ranges more, but at the same time bring the maximum camera zoom closer to the player? This should allow players the FoV flexibility they need, while retaining the view closer to the character as the game was designed around. Thoughts on this approach? "

    Ok, but we need to see around... 90 was good for me before this bad change.
This discussion has been closed.