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CDP Topic: VIP

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  • skatopsixos7skatopsixos7 Member Posts: 42 Arc User
    edited January 25

    THE SAME PEOPLE THAT TOLD ME 6 MONTHS AGO THAT IT IS WRONG TO ASK FOR INCREASING THE AD REFINING CAP, NOW THEY APPROVE IT. The thread is archived somewhere.

    The majority of posters agree with having VIP higher refining cap.
    It would not destroy the economy anymore?
    .
    Lets not make this game more P2W than already is.

    Just introduce a subscription- Citizen of Neverwinter. Must have NO perks, just the title. I buy that.
    .

    The game is not pay 2 win, i think people have poor knowledge of what pay too win is.

    Pay to Win is a situation in gaming (usually MMOs or Massively Multiplayer Online games) where companies allow you to buy items or advantages with real money that cannot be obtained normally by playing the game.
    Which in nw is not the case.
    You can literaly farm zen by converting ad , thus making it obtainable.

    You can get everything in the game with time and effort, EVERYTHING.

    for example, i've been playing 6 years spent 20 bucks more or less and have all the beST gear/mounts and everything else. Granted they prefer someone who spends, and i am the prime example of players they don't want because i grind for everything instead of using real money..

    so yah, not pay 2 win at all.

    Regards Galactic Undewear.

  • kwfkwf Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    The rate of free keys
    I feel like the keys give people a reason to get on daily, or gives them something to look forward to when they are able to get on. Some weeks I can only get on a couple of days, but it is nice to know I will be able to get some keys in addition to playing the game.
    I guess I would have to see exactly how the limited keys would work, because I wouldn't want to miss out on them due to irl responsibilities.

    Alternates to keys
    I would be open to this personally. Would the trade-bar store be rolled into this? Also, the big question is, can we buy a legendary mount this way?

    Ranks
    I am rank 12, so this would not affect me. It may lead to better retention if people get the full effect on the first month.

    Current Benefits
    Which of the current benefits of VIP do you value and why?
    The signpost is the best thing ever. Other than that, the keys and re-roll tokens are nice as well as the HP and summoning bank etc.
    What would you like to see added in terms of benefits?

    Auction House
    I just like not having to pay AD to list. I do not have enough opinion on this topic to be useful.

    Here is an example of how VIP could look. Note: this is just an example but it is here to help provide insight and context into some of our thoughts:

    VIP Example
    All of that sounds fine to me.


    Feedback Format

    I do not have a ton of alternate feedback on this topic. It sounds like you have some good ideas. My only addition, which may not be related-and if not my apologies- would be, We need more ways of getting our hands on Legendary Mounts. Possibly through VIP currency etc.

    Thank you for this program!
    Keep rocking it!
  • darkzod#9528 darkzod Member Posts: 34 Arc User
    1. Instead of increasing the chance of a leg, you should make other things in the lockbox more attractive. More high quality items that are otherwise rare. Unfortunately there are many old items (this also applies to the tarmalune)
    2. Please do not remove the free cost in the AH. The market is on the move and you have to react. It is not very attractive to offer items. Buyers also benefit from it.
    3. VIP Market sounds good :-) There should be special worthwhile items. VIP must be something special, compared to no vip.
    4. An additional buff that you can choose from a selection

  • marciumekillmarciumekill Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    Hello, I am more and more astonished to see that by now the arc has forgotten that there are players like me who have been here since day one, I say this because every change that you are making incentives and improves the situation only for new players .... but do you think that to bring the vip to 12 was a challenge for us? what are you going to do now? raise grades? we are hitting bottom, we high players too put some more degrees in the vip and suitable rewards based on the quality of the character, the idea of ​​the vip shop is not bad so maybe to give you a choice but don't forget us people who spent a lot of money and people who have been here for a long time and have lived and sweated what they have now, forgive my english I used google translator a greeting to all of you
  • thefabricantthefabricant Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,150 Arc User
    edited January 25

    Feedback Overview: Key Changes

    My thoughts on the key changes, keeping in mind that regardless of what change you make it likely does not impact my gameplay so I am pretty much impartial with regards to what you do to keys.

    Feedback Goal

    Restructure the key change proposal so that if changes were made to keys to lessen the economic impact and increase the chances that any changes to keys are successful.

    Feedback Functionality

    Instead of changing the odds on the lockboxes, I would add a different key to VIP, a "VIP Enchanted Key" which has a higher drop rate than ordinary keys and leave the drop rate of ordinary keys alone. The reason for this is, because this is what I believe would happen if you implemented the key change as proposed.
    1. The value of keys in general would go up, so more people would buy keys who are not getting them from VIP.
    2. Whilst on average the amount of VIP keys would remain the same, the value from the lockbox keys would go up a lot.
    3. The increased supply from ordinary keys, would cause the value of items on the auction house to decline significantly. This is a result of supply vs demand.
    4. The value of the VIP goes down, due to the increase of the normal key.
    5. Riots ensue.
    The problem is that changes to VIP keys and regular keys are currently not independent and so if you make any changes at all to keys, the results will impact both. Reducing the number of keys provided by VIP will currently always be a nerf to VIP, because relative to non VIP keys, you are getting less bang for your buck from VIP. If you wanted this key to also be purchasable outside of VIP, you could sell it independently for a higher price.

    Risks & Concerns

    • Players will still see this as a nerf, even if its functionally the same.
    • You are making a change to a system that currently works reasonably well, for no discernible gain. Pretty much anyone who spends zen, also has VIP because it is 1 of the first things you would buy.
  • harlequin#8938 harlequin Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    If this is a way to increase VIP, then I will cancel my VIP. There aren't really any improvements that will justify me paying more for this game, I will just subscribe to another game. I can't afford to pay an increased price.

    Ranks, no ranks, it doesn't really bother me too much. From the rank rewards, I think the mailbox and the signpost are the only things I use.

    I would rather keys go up to two a day, rather than increasing odds. Because, lets be honest. If legendary mount is 0.0000001% odds currently, doubling this is an increase, but still so remote that it will probably not be worth it, and then we will have had keys halved as well, so nothing changes. Keep the odds the same, but double the keys. Most of the time I get refine items anyway, so you wouldn't be losing money as such.

    I would like to see coal wards, pres wards etc being given out in lockboxes, rather than gems.

    I love the game but it increasingly feels like you are trying to get as much money as you can, as quickly as you can. I appreciate the game is free, so it's how you make your money. But it is now feeling more lie a cash grab than a game, and you're losing players, fast. In the last six months I have noticed how few people there are in Stardock, Yawing Portal and PE. It's heart breaking. I have made some great friends through the game, but they are leaving the game, as they feel developers don't care about the players, just what money they can get.
  • gabrieldourdengabrieldourden Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,070 Arc User

    In the first phase of this CDP we would like you to think and comment about these questions:


    • The rate of free keys
      • We currently grant a key a day, which is 30 a month. We want to preserve the value of VIP, so if lockbox odds are improved by 2x or even 3x, how would you view altering the rate of free keys to keep a similar value?
    • Alternates to keys
      • How would you feel about getting a currency with VIP that allowed you to get items other than keys from your daily login? Would you choose to get wards, enchanting stones, or other valuable items instead of keys if you had that option?
    • Ranks
      • How would you feel about the removal of ranks on VIP, granting full benefits of VIP 12 while active? What do you value about ranks?
    • Current Benefits
      • Which of the current benefits of VIP do you value and why?
    • New Benefits
      • What would you like to see added in terms of benefits?
      • Auction House
        • Having one group able to list an item, de-list, and re-list again at no cost/penalty to undercut is not healthy for the Auction House and we’d like that to be a better experience for everyone. What are your thoughts in regard to this statement?

      Here is an example of how VIP could look. Note: this is just an example but it is here to help provide insight and context into some of our thoughts:

      VIP Example
      • Instead of directly getting reroll tokens, VIP would be given a VIP currency and would have a store. The contents of this store would adjust over time but would likely start with things such as Preservation Wards, Enchanting Stones, Companion Upgrade Tokens, and yes Reroll Tokens.
      • 10-15 Lockbox Keys per month – These would now be in the new VIP store and players could go all in on keys only to max out at 15, or could opt for fewer keys and more of the other rewards which gives players more flexibility in what VIP offers them.
      • Increased odd chances on items in Lockboxes moving forward.
      • A higher cap on refined AD per day for VIP, 15% more for a cap of 115,000
      • Ability for VIP to change loadouts away from campfires
      • Increased health gain from VIP – grants every member of your group 1% of their base HP as additional Max HP. Maximum 5% with a full group of VIP.
      • Removal of VIP ranks meaning that anyone who purchases VIP gets full benefits immediately.

    Key and Lockboxes: the real issue with Keys is that they are usually a not so good investment, Most of the stuff is really bad and normally you get less steam from lockboxes than you would get by buying directly what you need from the ZEN store. Then once in blue moon you get a really valuable item (legendary mounts), if you're lucky. Doubly or tripling the odds won't help much as the only valuable items will stay extremely rare anyway.

    When preservation and coalescent wards were in the Tarmalune Shop then keys kept value anyway as you could buy the wards with the Tarmalune. Add wards back to the Tarmalune store and suddendly VIP and Keys will increase their value. Put enchanting stones there and it will be even better. I think that simply restructuring the Tarmalune bars shop and the Tarmalune bars drop rates from lockboxes would be enough to handle this issue, no need to create a new currency and store.

    Agree with the removal of ranks and would love the ability to change loadouts away from campfires.
    Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
    Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,008 Arc User
    edited January 25
    Another thing I'd like to address is the function of the keys for vip users. If we had less many of us would not buy more. They are something we look forward to as a small bright point in our day. I hold no expectations I'll get a mount from these. For me it's all about getting small functional drops that make my life better and the occasional nicer than normal drop that is like, sweet.. but if these keys were halved would I buy more? Absolutely not. getting one key a day does not fill the binge feature that key poppers relish. this is moderation, not the satisfying pull tab binge.

    this gives us a reason to log in every day. people that buy keys, buy keys regardless of vip. vip is not enough for their needs. Increasing the odds won't change this. if there was a slightly higher chance of getting a lego mount it changes nothing other than maybe make it cheaper to trade/buy on the ah.

    in other words, it's not eating your key sales. not at all. the reason key sales have gone down is because of the new lockboxes. not because of vip. not because of drop rate
    The overall value of lockboxes has diminished with the new style boxes and the old style boxes value have also diminished because of changes in the market. If you want higher key sales, changes NEED to be made to the lock boxes to make them more relevant and it has nothing to do with the lego mount odds. it has to do with the meat and potatoes of the boxes.

    Rn the new boxes on average give about 6k back to you in enchantments/refining stones. That's it. Taking refining stones and enchantments out of the new style boxes would go along way towards making them relevant. The old style boxes are losing value because a couple of the things that used to be more relevant aren't. but they're still way better than the modern boxes. basically the meat and potatoes of boxes needs to have on average near the price of opening the box for people to spend money on it. most aren't completely idiotic who open these, they aren't like I don't care that I get nothing from it if I don't get mount.. They hope for a mount yes, but they are counting on the meat and potatoes to sustain them. if the meat and potatoes cannot sustain they stop buying.

    I know I, and probably others are more than happen to help with monetization of the game, but please do be transparent about it. we aren't monkeys. :)
    Post edited by thefiresidecat on
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  • jules#6770 jules Member Posts: 378 Arc User
    edited January 25
    > @thefabricant said:
    >
    >
    > * Players will still see this as a nerf, even if its functionally the same.
    >
    > * You are making a change to a system that currently works reasonably well, for no discernible gain. Pretty much anyone who spends zen, also has VIP because it is 1 of the first things you would buy.

    This.
    VIP is the ONLY thing I advertise to newer players. I tell them to play the game and if they can, get VIP.
    I do usually explain how the ZAX works, but many just want to have a good time and buy a month here or there...
    I do advertise it because it is worth it, and because you can reasonably buy it either with your time (and here it is mostly selling of lockbox-drops and putting that AD back in ZAX) or your money.
    When I miscalculated or spent the lockbox AD on something else, I have also bought VIP with real money before. Especially in times where I have an hour max to play and I don't just wanna sit in my workshops and in AH all hour long I do this... And I think many that do not make a lot of side AD ingame do that too.
    I wouldn't buy it anymore if I had to do that every month.
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,008 Arc User

    Feedback Overview: Key Changes

    Risks & Concerns

    • Players will still see this as a nerf, even if its functionally the same.
    • You are making a change to a system that currently works reasonably well, for no discernible gain. Pretty much anyone who spends zen, also has VIP because it is 1 of the first things you would buy.
    yup, exactly. and I also encourage all new players to get vip whilst extolling it's virtues, (Which are many) it seems like time would be MUCH better spent elsewhere in the game. there are a lot of things that need a lot of work desperately. fixing things that aren't broken ends up just adding more bugs to the game as a general rule.
    xbox guild

    Main toons
    Tiberius Rex SW Combat hr 17.4k
    Rincewind CW 18k


    PC imaginary friends special events only

  • arkai#8115 arkai Member Posts: 157 Arc User
    edited January 25
    Feedback quality life
    A vendor that hallow us switch encantment ...they will be bta ok but as a vip we need to be treated as a vip 1 wep and1 def enc switch + 5 r15 exchange montly.we cant keep push up think every time yu change meta cmon we are vip no?


    Ah feedback
    Ah without listening tax and possibility to listen 40 item faster 1by1.. if yu want let us pay a tax yu hv to guarante a cashbk for us example

    i put a r15 that ah say wort 399k i put at 450k i pay 45k tax for listen. if i no sell ah offer a choice ah will buy it for the 85% value (based on true value they say 399k)and we give back to yu the 45k yu paied for listen or item back with ad losed for tax.
    from game this make 2 think .... Ppl can clean inventory and item dont be redunant cuz yu delete so if ppl want to buy have to buy be4 ah make his offert to the player...i hope is understandable my eng not good.plus yur ah decide the price who ppl have to respect without abuse.

    feedback for key
    if yu really want to half us key we hv to hv something back... Store where we have a daily logon choice selection summonable from interface or auto pop at login... Ex daily reward(all think bta nothing resellable) token pet x1, ad rougue box 20k and similiar think that wort 20kto 35k a weekly login reward 25pward bound or similiar value item montly vip reward coal bta or a choice from a purple pet(6pet choice if 6 month will be pet reset) or a purple mount ... (The store have to be interest not like vault of pity damn)plus 1key with improvment drop rare as yu say every 48hour. (For give an idea what we lose have to be minus from what we can have with new system.)


    but now the real think the new vip have to be earned only via trowing money ikr is too bad for ppl but we ruin the economy with zen excange i think ad and zen have to be separate think thats yur prob... In a ftp game yes who pay need advantage and some quality of life improved but who play free cmon yu play free cant have all item in zen market XD.

    But for do this yu neeeed to gain bk us trust. so 1st think .. happy player = happy customer...yu first have to solve some think pc mountgate baroviahuntgate and balance...make the game fun and after maybe yu see player back to spend lot of money ..is a lot of work cheer ..


    And a good marketing is a montly vip on every d&d book or table game.as a promo code for new ppl account claimable at level70


    Sey for text wall
    Post edited by arkai#8115 on
  • froger#9967 froger Member Posts: 277 Arc User
    Disclaimer: I didn’t read any of the thread. My cleric is near or at end game.
    The rate of free keys.
    • I think lockbox odds are so bad now, if you gave me 1000 keys a month (with current boxes) I still wouldn’t get anything good. I have no reason to believe doubling, tripling or increasing lockbox odds ten-fold will make a difference in what I pull. I expect people will complain increasing lockbox odds will kill the market.
    Alternate Keys:
    • The option of a prize box with wards, enchanting stones (nothing below ES R4) is interesting. But people will complain if the items are unbound and kill the market.
    Current Benefits:
    • Above all Injury Immune
    • Travel post is #1 used benefit.
    • Auction house fee elimination #2
    • Bank is #3
    • Mailbox #4
    • Profession vendor #5
    • Teleport to Moonstone Mask #6
    • Seal Vendor #7 because the game drops seals that can’t be exchanged for AD so she is useless.
    • I hate the XP boost for leveling, it causes me to out level content before it’s done. I’d like to be able to toggle this off.
    New Benefits:
    • Zone load in option from login screen as a VIP benefit. I want to choose where to start gameplay. Typically, I load into a zone and move somewhere else immediately.
    • A weekly random campaign currency pack
    • 15% Increased guild marks when donating to the coffer.
    • Morale discount for professions.
    Auction house:
    • This reads as an AD grab.
    • I’d like AH listings to be across account. Meaning all characters have access to the same listed items. The number of listing slots should increase with each additional character.
    VIP Example:
    • The store idea make for a predictable experience, I like this.
    • Make the keys unbound so I can sell them.
    • See my thoughts on lockboxes above.
    • People will love an increase in daily AD provided it doesn’t come with a reduction of Raw AD earning potential.
    • +1 for the loadout change
    • Amount HP needs to be increased.
    • I’m fine with rank removal, but how will that affect price?

    Overall VIP is the only thing worth buying in the game. Currently it is a good value.
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  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,008 Arc User
    for the record I've seen a number of people complain about the vendors. I do use the professions vendor regularly. I use it to sell things mostly. on occasion I buy from her. the seals vendors have been useless for ages. ever since they took salvage away. the gear is good for no one as a general rule.
    xbox guild

    Main toons
    Tiberius Rex SW Combat hr 17.4k
    Rincewind CW 18k


    PC imaginary friends special events only

  • mordekai#1901 mordekai Member Posts: 1,546 Arc User

    Hi All,

    For me I only care about VIP for keys or rather the chance at getting cool items from the lock box (which generally i give away). I am sure there are plenty more reasons to be excited about VIP but for whatever reason I just haven't learnt to the other benefits of the system yet. This is partly because of poor discover ability and teaching (accessibility) around these benefits and also because I am still learning some other key aspects of the game that they relate to.

    ....

    Chris

    Can I ask what Rank VIP you have got to?
    If you have jumped to Rank 12 and don't find the access to the Sign Post et al, more useful than one daily key, I'd give it some more time and then dump the VIP for a week while grinding Legacy weeklies and see which you miss the most.
    Go to Soshenstar... go do those daily quests over at Camp "Why did we build this on what is obviously an Ancient Cursed Burial Ground." and then realise you have to ride all the way back to the far side of the map to leave.

    If you haven't got the signpost/bank vault/mail box yet, then once you do get them, you will certainly not want to go back to not having them.



    And just another point to add, that doubling the chances of the big prize is not the same as doubling the value of the standard lock box, (I realised that I'd not made this point on my main post).

    I'm never expecting a daily VIP key to yield a Legendary Mount. It;s happened a few times, but I'm just lucky I guess. If I'm halving my number of keys, for someone like me to see the return as being "balanced" I would need to see double the value of the rewards I GET. Not an increased chance of getting one super special thing.
    If, say, I don't get a legendary mount, or new super pet in the first 50 boxes, and what I do get is the rather more typical fayre such as R9 Enchant, 2 green insignia, and some RP stones. (In other words... a load of RP) then I'm sitting here wondering what I actually got out of the deal.

    I haven't bought a key in... I don't remember... and since I finally equipped my last toon with a Deep Crow pet I haven't spent a penny in the Trade Bar Store...

    If my VIP daily rewards drop from whatever 30 x the usual daily average of RP is, to 15 times whatever the usual daily average of RP is, then I don't give a fiddlers pluck how my odds of getting a Legendary Mount went up over that period. I'm thinking rather that my daily load of crappy RP from lock-boxes just got twice as crappy.

    Now I'm still buying VIP, cos of the signpost and other stuff I mentioned that I've come to rely on, but you as a vendor are losing a lot of goodwill.
    Halving my crappy RP haul is not going to be mitigated by the notion that some whale buying 500 keys a week is now likely to get twice as many Legendary Mounts as before...
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 7,161 Arc User
    edited January 25

    for the record I've seen a number of people complain about the vendors. I do use the professions vendor regularly. I use it to sell things mostly. on occasion I buy from her. the seals vendors have been useless for ages. ever since they took salvage away. the gear is good for no one as a general rule.

    I use the seal vendor a lot to sell stuff to her for gold. I used to use the profession vendor to do the same but profession vendor needed more clicks (they have changed that). I do that regularly. May be 10 to 20 times a day. I also use seal vendor to get rAD from seal. There are still seal out there that can be exchanged for rAD.

    Yes, the extra gear is only good for RP and sometime (if it is allowed) good for gold. Of course, there are also treasure item, VIP potions, etc to sell for gold too.
  • akta#9913 akta Member Posts: 86 Arc User
    I think you should get all VIP rewards every day whether you log in or not. It is insane to me that you have to log in every day to get things you ALREADY PAID FOR. Letting these currencies or keys build up one at a time is perfectly fine but you should not ever be penalized for spending a few days taking care of your family and not logging in.
  • quickfoot#7851 quickfoot Member Posts: 423 Arc User
    Not directly related to increasing the *value* of VIP, but has it ever been considered to put VIP in the AD store? This would alleviate some pressure on the ZAX and people wouldn't have to wait 36-40 days :O for it to churn for them.

    Maybe put it in the AD store at the maximum price it could be bought through ZAX conversion, so 750k ad. It might also be good to have a few different options, one to increase only time, and another to increase only rank each at say, 500k ad.

    If the ZAX exchange rate ever dropped below 750 ad / zen, then people could still use the ZAX if they wanted to wait for it.

    Concern
    VIP gives AD store discount.

  • cwhitesidedev#9752 cwhitesidedev Member, Cryptic Developer Posts: 245 Cryptic Developer
    edited January 25
    > @jimmypdt said:
    > Feedback Overview: Overall changes to VIP
    > "After reading through everyone's comments it is clear that making big changes (i.e. removing/changing existing benefits) would no sit well with people that have pre-paid VIP for months and years into the future. This problem is due to the fact that you sold rank plus time together...
    >
    > Please don't take away existing benefits. People will value each benefit differently, but we all purchased VIP for a reason and making a change or removing will suck a lot."
    >
    > I think @franklin223 said this perfectly. And i completely agree. I'm sure others would as well.
    >
    > Feedback Goal
    >
    > Discuss options to improve VIP without devaluing what players have already purchased or to "turn off" new players/players whose VIP is about to expire from wanting to purchase it.
    >
    > Feedback Functionality
    >
    > I would strongly recommend not increasing the level of VIP beyond 12 and add in a few benefits (which you were considering) around rank 8 to rank 11 and not reducing the level of rank either. I would also recommend a small re-shuffling of certain QoL/benefits for certain ranks to make VIP appear more "worthwhile" to invest in. (Yes this is an investment. Both money and time)
    >
    > As it currently stands, it costs 12K Zen to get to rank 12. (less with coupons, sales, etc... but close enough) Each rank offers unique benefits and QoL perks. And, as you have already read, all of which are used and valued depending on the player. The main reason you don't want to go above rank 12 (ie. rank 16, 18, 20 whatever it may be) is that new players will look at that and say "HAMSTER THAT" it would be far too expensive at first sight. It would be a huge "turn off" for newer players. They would do some quick mental math and conclude that it would be far too expensive/time consuming to achieve that.
    >
    > As for not reducing the levels of VIP ranks. You need an incentive for players to pay more money and to play over a longer period of time, That is where the Ranks of VIP comes in. Some players will look at VIP and see "NO INJURIES" and say I want that and buy several ranks of VIP to get that. Congrats you just locked them in for several months now (not always but often enough). Now that they are locked in for the next few months, they might decide "Hey I want some press wards and an epic mount for all my characters". Congrats, you made more money. BUT if you put everything to Rank 1 and only have the one rank of VIP, well you only have 30 days till its up and then they might say " This game is MEH, time to play ESO since nothing is keeping me here now". There is a video about stuff like this. I think it was called "lets go whale hunting" can't remember but now I'm getting off topic. So yes I think 12 Ranks is a good number (At most you could reduce it to 10 but I still think 12 is better. Not too high and not too low).
    >
    > As for the re-shuffling. You need to sweeten the deal with Rank 1. You get some nice things at rank 1 right now with a re-roll token, an enchanted key, 10% xp, professions, and stuff. But you really need to sell it to people. When new people look at it they see two things stand out. Then increase to XP for faster leveling and the enchanted key. They most likely don't understand about the bonus to AD (very few ways to get AD early on) or the re-roll token yet (none of the dungeons they've been running has the re-roll option yet). So here is my idea for what Rank 1 VIP should be to entice players to buy it.
    >
    > At level 30, from the leveling box, you should get 7 days of free VIP. Give them a taste and they will want more...
    >
    > Rank 1:
    > -10% bonus to RAD/XP/Glory/Profession XP/Gold gain.
    > (Most of this is the same from what we have now except gold. Gold is important early on to swap out enchantments due to leveling gear always changing)
    >
    > -10% off the cost to rush training of companions and to refill moral at the workshop.
    > (most people don't remember to send their companion off for training before they log off for the night. As for professions, this might give them a little boost to spend some AD to up their workshop)
    >
    > -10% reduction cost of removing enchantments from items
    > (goes back to the first perk with the gold increase)
    >
    > -5% off all items in the Zen store. Does not stack with coupons or flash sales
    > (store could use an update. and talk to us/let us know before you change things please)(VIP=VERY IMPORTANT PERSON. You need to make them feel special. Stores give discounts for being members. The same should be here. Entice them)
    >
    > -5% off the cost to re-roll a chest at the end of a dungeon/skirmish/trial
    > (This goes with the whole 7 days of free VIP to entice players to want to keep it and even upgrade it. By the end of 7 days, they should be running the lower end epic dungeons)
    >
    > -Summon the professions vendor OR the signpost for quick travel (one or the other at this rank)
    > (this should be one of the first things to be unlocked for new players to persuade them to work on professions and allows them to sell things. OR. The signpost is a nice incentive to push a player to try it out and once they lose it (And I feel this every time I go to the preview sever) they will want it back)
    >
    > -Able to teleport straight to the workshop
    > (like the moonstone mask. not the world map. Push the professions on them to burn gold and AD. and please update the professions)
    >
    > -Access to the Moonstone Mask VIP area
    > (not sure if many still use this but it is VIP. And VIP=VERY IMPORTANT PERSON)
    >
    > -5 VIP Potions of health per character. Heals the player for 50% of max HP.
    > (The healing potions during leveling and even at end game do like 30-40% even with the boons on many characters, usually less. The leveling ones are even worse)
    >
    > -Every day receive 1) 1 Re-roll token per character (These two are obvious)
    > 2) 1 VIP chest key per Account
    >
    > Sweeten the deal at Rank 1 and give them 7 days of FREE. Let them taste it and many of them will want more. The other ranks can be sweetened as well to entice a player to want more of something like no injuries and % bonus campaign currency. So by rank 12 they could have a nice discount on removing enchantments, reduce the cost to re-roll chests by like 20% or other things you may wish to add. (I really liked the idea about an increase to campaign currency. I can't remember who said it in the thread. Players old and new would want that!!!)
    >
    > Now with all that being said, MAKE SURE YOU DON'T REMOVE ANYTHING SOMEONE ALREADY PAID MONEY FOR (ie move the ability to summon the mailbox from Rank 6 to Rank 8 or remove something altogether) If they have it, let people keep it.
    >
    >
    > Risks & Concerns
    >
    > Two things. One: DON'T REMOVE ANYTHING SOMEONE ALREADY PAID MONEY FOR. If anything is removed from what someone has purchased you will generate even more bad blood. Two: Balance. You want to entice people to buy VIP for the QoL/benefits but not make it look like its full on Pay to Win. Tough cookie to crack. And more and more gamers are getting wiser about these practices.
    >
    > I was really hoping that this subject would come up in a CDP, but not this soon. I strongly recommend putting this on the back burner and tackling another subject first like rewards. Main reason why is that several aspects of VIP should have there own CDP first to lay the ground work for it like lootboxes (rewards), the AH, etc...
    >
    > Remember everyone, this is just ideas being tossed about, and my quick opinion on it. Some will agree, others (probably many judging by what I've said) will definitely not agree. So now I challenge each of you whom agree, or disagree to tell me their ideas. (I've read everything in this thread up to this point) I want to see what we can come up with!! And not just players. I want to hear the ideas from the NW team. All of them if possible. Big and small. Artist to coders. You say you want to work together then lets do it. Throw ideas back a forth till something sticks!!!!
    >
    > All the best,
    >
    > OPTank_

    Hi OPTank,

    Here are a few of my thoughts and ideas from an earlier post. I have more but thought I would share these first:

    ‘For me I only care about VIP for keys or rather the chance at getting cool items from the lock box (which generally i give away). I am sure there are plenty more reasons to be excited about VIP but for whatever reason I just haven't learnt the other benefits of the system yet. This is partly because of poor discover ability and teaching (accessibility) around these benefits and also because I am still learning some other key aspects of the game that they relate to.

    Personally I would like an option: something like the choice of a daily key or a currency (coin used to buy fixed priced items from not just the current lock box but ones before it as well as cosmetics and other personality items). That way if there is something i really want I can work toward it and when i am in the mood i can buy keys for fun. This coupled with lowering of odds would be great for me that is.

    Update: I think it would be cool if in the above proposed store you can buy keys for the price of a coin and conversely trade a coin for a key. This way my compulsion to claim keys or coins at any specific time can be exercised regardless of what I have selected but not spent in the past with no penalty.

    ... Personally I would like a 'Forge' as well where as a VIP member i could spend currency on backlog/roadmap items (features, content etc) that I would like to see be moved up in priority I have other thoughts but this one will do for now.’

    I am sure some of the team will post their thoughts/ideas when they are back in the office next week.

    Chris
  • rhenadynth#6184 rhenadynth Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited January 25

    Cost Of VIP

    Although you didn't bring this up; why not just bring it to MMO standards and make it 1500 Zen? You could convert the accrued VIP time people currently have and have purchased in the past into VIP Loyalty Store points so everyone that supported the game would be thanked. Then everyone starts out at the 1500 Zen VIP price point so you get your money that you need to fund the game right off the get go. More incentives for VIP below in the talking points.

    Rate of Free Keys

    I personally don't care about the keys. I would never purchase keys or lock boxes in a game that I'm paying a subscription for. I have a year of VIP already bought and paid for. I wouldn't be your target customer.

    VIP Loyalty Store

    It sounds like something that was successful on Rift and a lot of people purchased subscriptions ahead of time to get points, items, benefits, etc. I don't remember if they made it retroactive or not to veteran players having been subscribed before the change but it'd be something nice you could do for players that have supported you over the years. Maybe the stuff would be account/character bound to protect the Auction House economy. This is a pretty good idea overall because we get to choose the reward we want instead of just receiving only keys/re-roll tokens every day.

    VIP Rank Removal

    I am okay with this. The Loyalty Store could have mile markers for veterans to hit for certain unique rewards. I think giving an incentive to people to have VIP would be better overall and giving them all the benefits from just purchasing a month of VIP would be great and put everyone on an equal footing.

    Current Benefits

    I like all the benefits. I played Rift a lot and they fall in about the same category of what they offered. Everything you offer now is pretty good. You could look at Rift's patron system and other MMOs for ideas to add but I can't think of any except what I'll mention below.

    New Benefits

    VIPs should be able to convert double the AD. 15% is not enough incentive. This could be a choice they could make with their daily loyalty point(s). Honestly this would be the only benefit I'm interested in. If you want people to purchase VIP this would make it so everyone purchases it to support the game because of this huge incentive.

    Auction House

    Capitalism 101. I don't think you should touch this. You'd be messing with people who actually do buy keys and lock boxes. A lot of them have supported the game over the years and will continue to do so. This would be a huge slap in the face to them and also players in general that sell on the auction house.

    You could add Auction House slots (maybe 5 or 10 per purchase) into the Services tab. If you want professions to make a come back; this would probably help that out. There's plenty of stuff in crafting that can be made that's useful on the way to level 80 and even some stuff at level 80.

    I vote for keeping the Auction House the same.

    Professions (Bonus item that's not talked about here)

    VIPs get double morale (or unlimited morale/no morale cost to craft). Make Professions Great Again. I'm sure this will be a huge discussion in a later CDP though. But I think developers seriously underestimate the amount of people that are interested in crafting and these limitations just make it not worth it. Alright sorry for that being off topic.

    Conclusion

    Give VIP a huge benefit and everyone would purchase it out right. And with maybe certain loyalty goals unlocked after 3/6/12/18/24 months etc; bonus points or unique items, people will purchase VIP ahead of time. You need more money for Neverwinter and I think this is one of the ways to get there. As always with games like this; if you ask too much or give very little... players leave and they may never come back. MMO 101. Every MMO has to try and find that happy medium and Neverwinter is pretty close but could do better.
  • cwhitesidedev#9752 cwhitesidedev Member, Cryptic Developer Posts: 245 Cryptic Developer
    > @mordekai#1901 said:
    > (Quote)
    > Can I ask what Rank VIP you have got to?
    > If you have jumped to Rank 12 and don't find the access to the Sign Post et al, more useful than one daily key, I'd give it some more time and then dump the VIP for a week while grinding Legacy weeklies and see which you miss the most.
    > Go to Soshenstar... go do those daily quests over at Camp "Why did we build this on what is obviously an Ancient Cursed Burial Ground." and then realise you have to ride all the way back to the far side of the map to leave.
    >
    > If you haven't got the signpost/bank vault/mail box yet, then once you do get them, you will certainly not want to go back to not having them.
    >
    >
    >
    > And just another point to add, that doubling the chances of the big prize is not the same as doubling the value of the standard lock box, (I realised that I'd not made this point on my main post).
    >
    > I'm never expecting a daily VIP key to yield a Legendary Mount. It;s happened a few times, but I'm just lucky I guess. If I'm halving my number of keys, for someone like me to see the return as being "balanced" I would need to see double the value of the rewards I GET. Not an increased chance of getting one super special thing.
    > If, say, I don't get a legendary mount, or new super pet in the first 50 boxes, and what I do get is the rather more typical fayre such as R9 Enchant, 2 green insignia, and some RP stones. (In other words... a load of RP) then I'm sitting here wondering what I actually got out of the deal.
    >
    > I haven't bought a key in... I don't remember... and since I finally equipped my last toon with a Deep Crow pet I haven't spent a penny in the Trade Bar Store...
    >
    > If my VIP daily rewards drop from whatever 30 x the usual daily average of RP is, to 15 times whatever the usual daily average of RP is, then I don't give a fiddlers pluck how my odds of getting a Legendary Mount went up over that period. I'm thinking rather that my daily load of crappy RP from lock-boxes just got twice as crappy.
    >
    > Now I'm still buying VIP, cos of the signpost and other stuff I mentioned that I've come to rely on, but you as a vendor are losing a lot of goodwill.
    > Halving my crappy RP haul is not going to be mitigated by the notion that some whale buying 500 keys a week is now likely to get twice as many Legendary Mounts as before...

    Hi Mordekai,

    Thanks for your post. I am rank 4. Note this is the first time I have even opened up the panel to check. I wasn’t pointed to it’s existence in any tutorial in the game. As I mentioned before in this CDP this is a problem in of itself in regard to VIP perceived value and engagement from players. However as per the accessibility CDP, solving this issue will be part of Streamlining.

    Chris
  • littledanger#4115 littledanger Member Posts: 68 Arc User
    Here’s a crazy idea, and I don’t want to read all the posts to get up to date,

    Whatever you all agree to/come up with - cash us all out on our existing VIP and relaunch it. I’d be good with it and it would be a good way to get out of the lockbox game - those days are coming to an end as it is.

This discussion has been closed.