If it were possible to choose between the key (every day!) or a currency to a special "VIP" store, I think that would go over better with the player base, than to remove daily keys in favor of a currency.
I think giving one "VIP coin" every day, and being able to buy a key from the "VIP store" for one VIP Coin, would be pretty reasonable. The amount of keys someone would be able to get wouldn't change (as you can still get one per day by using your VIP coin), but you could also choose to save VIP coins to buy something else from the store. This would add value to the VIP program, without having players angry about receiving less keys than they were receiving before.
If it were possible to choose between the key (every day!) or a currency to a special "VIP" store, I think that would go over better with the player base, than to remove daily keys in favor of a currency.
I think giving one "VIP coin" every day, and being able to buy a key from the "VIP store" for one VIP Coin, would be pretty reasonable. The amount of keys someone would be able to get wouldn't change (as you can still get one per day by using your VIP coin), but you could also choose to save VIP coins to buy something else from the store. This would add value to the VIP program, without having players angry about receiving less keys than they were receiving before.
until they decide to take the key out of the store. don't think it wouldn't happen? it would. see coal wards.... I'd quit the game over this. honestly. I would.
I’m not sure how undercutting makes the auction house ‘unfair’ as it brings prices down for players, I would have thought that keys, signposts, hp boosts are all much more unfair than not having to throw ad away with posting fees.
Adding a posting fee for everyone is more unfair as that penalises everyone, including those that don’t delist things, if there is genuinely a need to stop people from delisting then relisting cheaper then the only ‘fair’ way to stop that is to add a fee for delisting.
Feedback: "if lockbox odds are improved by 2x or even 3x, how would you view altering the rate of free keys to keep a similar value?" Hilarious. Your drop rates are bad enough that you'd have to multiply them by 10 to be measurable. The number of keys is valuable because you can open more of the older Lockboxes and get more consistent rewards. If you give us less keys, you reduce the value of VIP.
Alternates to keys VIP Currency would only matter if the VIP shop actually contained items we need (wards, refining stones, companion tokens, etc.). Too often stores are full of junk. ... You also reduce the value of VIP because although the drop rates on keys are terrible, there is at least a glimmer of a chance at getting an awesome reward. Without keys, you never get that chance.
Ranks Full benefits would be fine. Currently the only benefit I don't care about is the teleport to Moonstone Mask.
For the Auction House: The AH is already very expensive to post on. Even if you're not paying the posting fee, you still pay the 10% tax on anything sold. This means it's already more beneficial to trade with other players for real profit. Many times the actual profit margin even for VIP members is very thin.
What would happen if VIP had to pay listing fees? The availability of a ton of items will disappear. Right now I can list all kinds of things and even if they don't sell, I can post them until they do. If I have to pay a fee, 80-90% of the items on the market will fall off because unless you can guarantee a profit, you won't be able to list anything. ... This includes a lot of items that are helpful to other players — crafting suppllies/tools, quest items, vanity mounts, stronghold items, appearance items, etc.
If you're going to try to rework 'no-posting-fee for VIP', something else needs to change so players can post items cost effectively. Maybe make the posting fee minimal and reduce the sale tax? Right now the costs are exorbitant. If I have items that aren't useful to me, they will just get trashed. For most things there's no profit and all negative. ... I see killing the VIP AH benefit as killing the inventory of the AH, and filling up Protectors Enclave with spammers trying to trade direct.
VIP Example Feedback: 1. Ok but you're reducing the value of VIP by giving less keys. Players will be mad. 2. Increased Lockbox odds to what? Players have been opening boxes for years and never gotten a Leg mount. 3. Refining more AD sounds nice and would be welcome. (I play on xbox) 4. Changing Loadouts would be nice. 5. Removing Ranks would be nice. 6. I could care less about the health increase. If it makes that much a difference, I must be playing wrong. 7. I play multiple characters. If I have spend all my VIP currency just to get enough reroll tokens, I'm going to be mad.
Concerns See the AH comments for my economy concerns. You can't candy-coat it. By removing keys, you reduce VIP value. Honestly, VIP is your most in-demand item. Why are you messing with it in the first place?
1. Keys - Ok, this might get some hate, BUT if you did something like gifted me something like the Star Rover keybundle (20 keys, armor choice), I'd be mostly ok with that - mainly because it eliminates the need to login daily specifically for the key. *Ideally*, it'd be a 30-key pack instead, though...
I'm not terribly keen on any 'alternates' being introduced, but should that occur, I'd be most interested in wards.
2. I've been rank 12 pretty much since VIP was introduced, but yeah, I'm fine with eliminating ranks. Makes it easier to explain to people.
3. What I like right now: pretty much everything in VIP gets used. Travel post, bank, vendors, rerolls, keys...
4. Things I'd like to see: increased AD refinement cap would be nice. I thought increased HP was already a perk, so I'd kinda like to keep it.
I'd suggest a summonable altar and have it count as the 'campfire' for both invoking and loadout swapping. You could even allow the consumable altars to be used for loadout swaps for non-VIP players. You can't summon the altar during combat, so it prevents swapping in fights.
Lastly, re: AH posting fees. I like the lack of posting fees, and think the AH cut is plenty fair. That being said, should an adjustment be needed, I'd suggest a simple reduction of both the posting fee and AH cut if at all possible. If not, simply cut the posting fee in half for those with VIP - that way it will still cost to list items, but the hit will be smaller for those investing in VIP.
Personally I would like an option: something like the choice of a daily key or a currency (coin used to buy fixed priced items from not just the current lock box but ones before it as well as cosmetics and other personality items). That way if there is something i really want I can work toward it and when i am in the mood i can buy keys for fun. This coupled with lowering of odds would be great for me that is.
Maybe a way to combine the elements of 15 keys x2 rate &/or a currency is to give ViP a monthly stipend of trade bars (that scales with ViP rank) & just update/extend the trade bar store. This also keeps it open to all players just at an advanced rate for ViP.
As much as im against losing 30 keys a month if the trade off seemed fair then I cant complain & the prospect of earning a currency to pick up some companions from the trade bar store does have an appeal.
Alongside all of this though I still dont think a new currency is necessary & would rather it be integrated into an existing one.
So, on the topic of removing our daily Key. For those who purchased VIP with the knowledge that they would receive their moneys worth in zen by logging in 10 days every 30 days, you cannot take this value away without refunding those who paid for this value.
So, either give us an option to: -> receive 75k refined AD daily, -> or 15 reroll tokens instead (75k/5k=15), -> or 1 currency to purchase items which are kept up to date with supply and demand, For instance at the current rate 99 pres wards are sold at about 750k, so if I received 10 pres wards a day instead of my key I would be satisfied, However this would cause an increase in available pres wards devaluing them, so this would have to be directly linked to the AH listings and the conversion kept up to date to give us 75k AD worth. -> or just leave us with our daily Key (easy option)
However, you say you have limited resources as a company atm. Well if this is the case, please don't spend any of your time working on this VIP updating. We need class balance and for rewards in content to be worth our time.
Balance out costs for people at all ranges in the game.
Feedback Goal
The cost of keeping the game afloat is set on the new players. Give the old players a reason to pay you to play the game.
Feedback Functionality
I see any changes you make to VIP as short term benefits to long term loss. If we get fewer keys but a higher chance to win I don't see that as much of a benefit. Eventually, the chance will be back down to where it is at right now or lower with fewer chances to open it. Due to past changes I see this more as a way to renegotiate the benefits to VIP and rarely is the side asking to renegotiate going to give more benefits from their side.
There currently lacks any inconvenience for players who don't put money into the game at end game right now. Most who are get items to sell to play for free. VIP should be purchased outside of the free model or there needs to be a limit to how much an account can convert AD to Zen for the year. Right now there are fully free to play players who dominate the markets at this time in an unhealthy way. Very few players would continue to play end game without VIP as the inconveniences would be more of an issue. The thing to know is that most who are replying to this probably don't put money into the game anymore. I think end game players would be more welcome to continue to put money into the game if it were for a stable benefit like VIP than any of your other products.
The extra money would have to be put towards the game in terms of more functionality in terms of playable content. I think most players would put $50 to $100 a year into the game if they were given another dungeon or two per year to play.
Risks & Concerns
VIP might look like pay to win if you implement this due to causing some players to actually pay into the running of the game instead of being free only players. VIP should be a luxury to have and those that want VIP should have to pay for it instead of just putting in time. While time is money most of the time in this case it isn't.
Guild Leader: Under the Influence Yule (Barb): 72k : Siren (TR): 78k : Torun (DC): 73k : Siren OP (OP): 76k : Siren SW (SW): 78k : Modern (F): 80k : Cherry1 (CW) : 68k Siren HR (HR): 78k
Having one group able to list an item, de-list, and re-list again at no cost/penalty to undercut is not healthy for the Auction House and we’d like that to be a better experience for everyone. What are your thoughts in regard to this statement?
I agree that something needs to be done about the auction house, It should actually be the topic of it's own CDP like many other things. The problem with the auction house is much deeper than this problem as described above.
Some community members actually login to play the market. Yep, they login to pretend they are the CEO of their own little empire. They spend hours tracking prices and monitoring trends. They buy low and sell high, they corner certain subsets of the market and they have Millions of AD. They are having FUN in a way that the developers may not have thought about or even intended, but they are having fun and logging in every day to do so.
The AH in this game is broken. The search function rarely works, and because of this there are thousands of items for sale that the average player isn't even aware of. For example: I once told a group of guild members that they could buy campaign completion tokens from the AH. They were shocked! None of them knew that campaign completion tokens were available through the AH.
There are groups of players who control parts of the market. They have enough AD to buy out entire subsets of the market and then set the price for everyone else. If someone "Undercuts" they just buy them out. Simple, just like real life. There is nothing wrong with what they are doing IMO. They are playing the game the way it is created using resources they have earned in order to make a profit. Is it fair to new players? Probably not, but that is how the AH works in its current form.
An example of how cornering the market hurts the game: A couple of years ago a group of like minded individuals decided to buy up one part of every artifact set. They didn't buy the pieces that were easily farmed, they bought up the pieces that required a decent grind to obtain. These individuals jacked up the price on the pieces they bought up and relisted them. Overnight it became impossible for a "New" player to afford a basic piece for EVERY viable artifact set. We are not talking about just making a profit here, these individuals drove up the price by hundreds of thousands of AD and then bought all pieces that were listed at lower prices to keep the margin high. This behavior is still in practice to this day in different forms. Is it against the rules? No. IS it harmful to the game and the experience new players have? Yes.
If Cryptic wants to change the way the market works then they should go all in and change the ENTIRE market. Don't do a half assed job without investigating how the market actually works in its current form. If you do so you will drive away even more players like the ones I mention in the beginning of this post. There are SEVERAL posts about the AH by people who really know how to work it both here on the forums and across many websites if you look. Please do your research before making changes.
Possible actions to help repair the AH
Fix the search function for the AH.
Remove the posting fee for everyone, VIP or not. This harms and restricts new players and has no effect on Veterans.
Institute a new "Tax" structure for items sold on the AH. For example a luxury tax on higher end items but also a much lower tax on everyday use items. Use real tax laws for inspiration.
Actually monitor the market. Have someone take time out of their day to look at trends, note who the big market players are and monitor what they are doing. If they are in your opinion abusing the system make rules and then fine them (think FTC).
When a new item is introduced to the game set a fixed "High" price in its metadata.
I have made Millions of AD playing the market in Neverwinter. It is fun and very profitable. Please think carefully about the changes you are going to make. The market is a very fragile thing.
first i will note i am fluent in sarcasm, but the truth is more fun than making things up, and this made me think. after considered this for some time i get only 2 feelings _disgust and disappointment and a realization. this is truth here ,but can YOU see it?
1) yet 1 more wringing of the sponge to get every drop out - take less and be happy, as we only suggest, and how many times have we suggested to date has never influenced cryptic( well maybe what the cash cows and manipulating associated self interests exploiting constantly from preview). 2) more feeding from yet another approach to micro transactions praying on eye candy specials and less and less value in content and more and more exploitation on the community. less value will = less $$$ and less sales and yet more move on. rinse repeat.
as to the cabol and ah manipulating: its been going on for years and worse than ever look at the logs -repeat names- repeat mass listings, same names- buying every listing and inflating price. batieri for 3 mill, recent surge in price of better performing enchants/augments on preview bought out and re inflated week before it drops(last 3 mods the same trend). sure it doesnt happen ROFLMAO. i see it weekly and have actually seen it while i was browsing ah , but hey maybe the team missed it, or isnt looking,. buy keys rp it all to refine the high dollar item /sell the 1 in 1000 good drop cash in the no need to refine (ad cap whats that- none on sales instant ad ) so much looks like undervaluing and manipulation of product sold in good faith- yet again not what was purchased because its changed after sale...isnt that bait and switch/eye candy shuffle.
add value+ add desire. stop taking away and invest in your community and sales will continue, roll backs like the sponge being squeezed dry will only hasten the desert this game is headed for. almost dead for weeks till next mod..exploit opportunity...milk it and disappear for 3 months till the next frenzy starts. new players left hanging or cant keep up with the pace old vip feeling robbed and moving on.
add another shop with more currency to devalue and spread more obsolete items in it has 0 interest for me
add a reason to buy not more old content junk. add ad cost to used purposes by all players to sink the ad, not some devalued gamble(yes its also a lottery). use what we have thats long past a overhaul trade bars,not add something new to soon be just as worthless. show support to those that support you with meaningful vip rewards increased over time not paid to win, but special content / or seldom released item/ discounted sales 5-15% less than non vip( on current content ). bind it to account fine for the play not more price gouging ah sales. as a reward for supporting this ongoing sham of a f2p model. dont add more pay to win either but plz reward the players that support the game and risk their time,effort and support actually means something besides the $$$ or at the least add a new level of vip - Valued Customer!
every platform is different on the ah and the culture. batiri are 30k on xbox. people have tried to buy them out and get them higher. the most expensive theyv'e ever been here is 69k. lol. xbox is the healthiest of the platforms. really these things need to be discussed separately by platform. we're all so different. I don't think it's one size fits all. that's why I really think they should just let this sleeping dog lie and move on to something else to poke.
Feedback Goal: (what this feedback would target and accomplish) VIP needs a bit more value and some streamlining.
Feedback Functionality (how would your feedback work in relation to the current design of Neverwinter) I enjoy my daily lockbox key. BUT, perhaps this can be made into a universal key – a key that opens lockboxes, dungeon chests, stronghold dragon boxes, etc. Give us the player the choice of what is important to us.
I also enjoy and use the travel signpost, mailbox, bank summons, and vendor. I do not use the moonstone mask teleport nor do I see a need for 2 vendors that I can sell items to being available. I would find useful the ability to donate to my guild/alliance chest and to check the guild bank as VIP perks.
I would not suggest removing ranks, but I would suggest consolidating ranks. There is no reason to have 3 ranks whose only use is to add 1 reroll token or 5% to some bonus. Just give us the full 3 reroll tokens and full 25% bonus at the time that rank is hit.
I have no comments on the AH. I rarely use the AH so this is not a consideration for me. I will note that most games I have played have had some perk to using the AH included in the VIP package, so this is clearly a popular benefit.
I do use my dungeon reward reroll token, although I would prefer these to be account bound instead of char bound (I am sure many of us have a few to several characters that just hang out for invoking purposes). Keep the limit of re-rolls to 5, but PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE have more useful rewards in the dungeon chests.
I am indifferent about the health potion reward. I use them, but I can just as easily craft them. I am also relatively indifferent to the VIP health bonus. At this stage of the game 2000HP is small potatoes, if you are going to have this be of value have it either higher, or a % of the player's HP pool (perhaps 5%).
All thing AD and RaD related – the more RaD/AD I can earn the better. I returned to NW less than a year ago and one thing that still bothers me is this ridiculously low cap on RaD to AD conversion, as when I had played previously I don't think there was a cap and just invoking gave RaD instead of this "bonus" we get now. I suppose I understand why it was done, but I think other solutions could have been found that would not have hurt new/returning players as much.
I enjoy invoking anywhere, and I certainly enjoy the injury immunity. Being able to swap loadouts outside of a campfire would be a nice perk too.
Rushing cost discount for companion training/workshop morale – I am indifferent to this.
In general the AD store and the tradebar store really need updated with more currently needed items. I do appreciate the wondrous bazaar VIP discount. The tradebar store is pretty much already a VIP currency store, so adding in yet another VIP currency makes no sense to me. What does make sense to me is updating the tradebar store with useful items (P-wards, C-wards, enchanting stones), or at least more items that folks might buy that are purely cosmetic (more fashion mounts, more wardrobe items, new dyes, old gear cosmetics, vanity pets, etc).
The 10% bonus XP is pretty standard for any game that offers VIP.
I 100% agree with the person who said to take VIP out of the Zen store. VIP should be purchased directly through Arc's website. There have been too many past issues with AD/Zen (such as the recent stardock legendary mount issue, can I have a choice of 12million AD or a 10K power mount for free now too please?) to have VIP remain in the Zen store.
Campaign currency reduction – I saw that idea in this thread and I agree that might be a good enhancement to VIP. Obtain the same amount of currencies while questing, but have a slightly reduced cost when you cash them in. As it is the currency caps on campaigns irks me.
Risks & Concerns (what problems can you foresee with implementing your feedback that you would like input on from members of this subforum)
VIP needs to add value in the mind of the player, which then stimulates them to buy it generating revenue for the game. Reducing the perception of value (such as less keys) is not going to be helpful. From what I have read the hottest topics are the daily keys and the AH benefits, with the re-roll tokens right behind them.
To note: I am posting from the viewpoint of someone who played back in 2013/2014, then returned in 2019. Questing is fun, but I am finding most of my fun here in NW to be group content. Therefore most of my efforts are based around making my characters the best they can be to hopefully do end-game content. I am still learning, but my guild/alliance seems to be pretty supportive of my efforts
Having one group able to list an item, de-list, and re-list again at no cost/penalty to undercut is not healthy for the Auction House and we’d like that to be a better experience for everyone. What are your thoughts in regard to this statement?
I agree that something needs to be done about the auction house, It should actually be the topic of it's own CDP like many other things. The problem with the auction house is much deeper than this problem as described above.
Some community members actually login to play the market. Yep, they login to pretend they are the CEO of their own little empire. They spend hours tracking prices and monitoring trends. They buy low and sell high, they corner certain subsets of the market and they have Millions of AD. They are having FUN in a way that the developers may not have thought about or even intended, but they are having fun and logging in every day to do so.
The AH in this game is broken. The search function rarely works, and because of this there are thousands of items for sale that the average player isn't even aware of. For example: I once told a group of guild members that they could buy campaign completion tokens from the AH. They were shocked! None of them knew that campaign completion tokens were available through the AH.
There are groups of players who control parts of the market. They have enough AD to buy out entire subsets of the market and then set the price for everyone else. If someone "Undercuts" they just buy them out. Simple, just like real life. There is nothing wrong with what they are doing IMO. They are playing the game the way it is created using resources they have earned in order to make a profit. Is it fair to new players? Probably not, but that is how the AH works in its current form.
An example of how cornering the market hurts the game: A couple of years ago a group of like minded individuals decided to buy up one part of every artifact set. They didn't buy the pieces that were easily farmed, they bought up the pieces that required a decent grind to obtain. These individuals jacked up the price on the pieces they bought up and relisted them. Overnight it became impossible for a "New" player to afford a basic piece for EVERY viable artifact set. We are not talking about just making a profit here, these individuals drove up the price by hundreds of thousands of AD and then bought all pieces that were listed at lower prices to keep the margin high. This behavior is still in practice to this day in different forms. Is it against the rules? No. IS it harmful to the game and the experience new players have? Yes.
If Cryptic wants to change the way the market works then they should go all in and change the ENTIRE market. Don't do a half assed job without investigating how the market actually works in its current form. If you do so you will drive away even more players like the ones I mention in the beginning of this post. There are SEVERAL posts about the AH by people who really know how to work it both here on the forums and across many websites if you look. Please do your research before making changes.
Possible actions to help repair the AH
Fix the search function for the AH.
Remove the posting fee for everyone, VIP or not. This harms and restricts new players and has no effect on Veterans.
Institute a new "Tax" structure for items sold on the AH. For example a luxury tax on higher end items but also a much lower tax on everyday use items. Use real tax laws for inspiration.
Actually monitor the market. Have someone take time out of their day to look at trends, note who the big market players are and monitor what they are doing. If they are in your opinion abusing the system make rules and then fine them (think FTC).
When a new item is introduced to the game set a fixed "High" price in its metadata.
I have made Millions of AD playing the market in Neverwinter. It is fun and very profitable. Please think carefully about the changes you are going to make. The market is a very fragile thing.
yes the ah is not perfect and yes the ah needs some organization and some love. but imo it's so far down the list of things that needs improvement and the track record in this game, is destroying things they set to revamp... i'd rather it was left alone and they concentrated on their already very large goal post for this year and maybe some bonus bugs and dungeons. your example about the set sucks but it's still grindable. it's not like people can't still get things in other ways if they are very expensive and if they do want to sell it they are guaranteed a quick sale under those circumstances. the ah isn't game breaking. and what you are suggesting I think is a HUGE project. Redesigning the auction house would be no joke. they'd basically have to rebuild the database I think. take the listing fee out for everyone and call it good.
3
thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
yes the ah is not perfect and yes the ah needs some organization and some love. but imo it's so far down the list of things that needs improvement
Pretty much this. We might disagree with each other on how VIP/the AH (and I could write a book about the stuff that I would like changed with regards to the AH) needs to be improved, but I don't think the issue is something that is essential, or needs to happen immediately. I would put both VIP and the AH as C priority, maybe in a development cycle. There are bigger fish to fry.
Personally, I feel that VIP is one of the things needing the LEAST updates right now.
same
This really should be the least priority and it will very likely NOT increase the attractiveness of the game. Far more likely, that the changes will have a very negative effect when they go live. Minimal chance that the long term positive effects, if any, will outweigh the negative effects. Please focus on the more important issues, such as - meaningful scaling (better no scaling at all) - rewards that reflect the difficulty level, etc.
Just to pick out two of the proposed changes:
1.) less lockbox keys, increased legendary drop rate DON'T This GREATLY devalues VIP (and everyone will realize): If I get 15 keys instead of 30, I loose what is in 15 lockboxes. Easy: The lockboxes don't just drop legendary items.
2.) AH posting fee DON'T Being able to "undercut" is a VERY MINOR problem for the economy, if any at all. Usually people undercut by a negligible amount, so the item sells at practically the same price. No effect at all for the economy. However, an additional fee devalues AD even more, players will be very unhappy
If you wish to improve VIP in some areas, go ahead. Some of the proposed improvements sound nice, but people's opinion of "how nice" will vary. But many people will be very upset about the proposed nerfs.
In any case, if you plan to update VIP, you should NOT DEVALUE ANYTHING, that players already bought (such as x months of VIP left). This will alienate a large proportion of the player base, similar to MOD 16
Summary: - Nerfing VIP for perks that players feel strongly about, - compensating the nerfs by "improvements" that are perceived to have a rather "small impact" is a very high risk undertaking, that can lead to a situation similar to the introduction of MOD 16.
I would really advice highly against it. There are far better ways to improve the game and to increase revenue.
Personally, I feel that VIP is one of the things needing the LEAST updates right now.
same
This really should be the least priority and it will very likely NOT increase the attractiveness of the game. Far more likely, that the changes will have a very negative effect when they go live. Minimal chance that the long term positive effects, if any, will outweigh the negative effects. Please focus on the more important issues, such as - meaningful scaling (better no scaling at all) - rewards that reflect the difficulty level, etc.
Just to pick out two of the proposed changes:
1.) less lockbox keys, increased legendary drop rate DON'T This GREATLY devalues VIP (and everyone will realize): If I get 15 keys instead of 30, I loose what is in 15 lockboxes. Easy: The lockboxes don't just drop legendary items.
2.) AH posting fee DON'T Being able to "undercut" is a VERY MINOR problem for the economy, if any at all. Usually people undercut by a negligible amount, so the item sells at practically the same price. No effect at all for the economy. However, an additional fee devalues AD even more, players will be very unhappy
If you wish to improve VIP in some areas, go ahead. Some of the proposed improvements sound nice, but people's opinion of "how nice" will vary. But many people will be very upset about the proposed nerfs.
In any case, if you plan to update VIP, you should NOT DEVALUE ANYTHING, that players already bought (such as x months of VIP left). This will alienate a large proportion of the player base, similar to MOD 16
Summary: - Nerfing VIP for perks that players feel strongly about, - compensating the nerfs by "improvements" that are perceived to have a rather "small impact" is a very high risk undertaking, that can lead to a situation similar to the introduction of MOD 16.
I would really advice highly against it. There are far better ways to improve the game and to increase revenue.
Hi Motu99,
Thanks for your post. I just want to clarify that multiple pieces of work happen at once. The only impact this CDP has in terms of delay is to the next CDP. We have multiple teams working in multiple areas.
It made sense to do this CDP now for the reasons we have explained. Personally I would have done it a bit later as it will take the CDP a few more rounds before really being able to efficiently tackle this kind of topic but we are true to our intent so here we are.
Thanks
Chris
2
plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,403Arc User
edited January 2020
Feedback Overview Try to forget what was said so far and think about how I would like to change VIP in a cheap way
Feedback Goal Improve VIP with less effort to implement and have better value to player. Hopefully, increase VIP sale for Cryptic and not trigger uprising beyond the title of Mod 17.
Feedback Functionality - don't touch VIP key - don't touch no posting fee feature - allow loadout change away from camp fire - extra daily moral for profession such as +40/+10%. - extra discount of gold cost for profession. e.g. -5% gold cost or may be -0.5% per rank. - no extra moral cost even if the task is not executed in the Workshop. - put back VIP bundles to Zen store. Cryptic used to sell a 6 month bundle with a companion. - VIP sales once a while, you are already doing it but may add extra 0.5% off discount per VIP rank. - allow lockbox key to be picked up without login everyday. May be limit that to login at least once per week. That is the game will only hold up to 7 keys for you to pick up. If you login the 10th day, you can only pick up 7. If these players do not login, it is not a lose to Cryptic. If they just login/logout and do nothing, it is wasting your resource. In addition, your weekend only warrior can remove a reason blocking them to buy VIP. - VIP store and use lockbox key and/or re-roll token as the currency to buy stuff from it. The items lockbox key or re-roll token can buy should be different.
I can think of many other features but I want to stay with my goal, "less effort to implement".
Risks & Concerns I tried to choose the feature that is low/no risk. I may expand my list when I think of something new.
My player status (as requested by Julie): endgame minus one or two or three. veteran, has played daily since mod 3.
Post edited by plasticbat on
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
More than anything, I would like to see the trade bar store updated. As it stands, all I do with tradebars is wait for a sale, then buy up stones of health or scrolls of mass life whichever is more on the ah. Throw an account bound leg mount on the store. Pres wards, coal wards, relevant artifacts, cool transmutes. You could put a hard cap on the store that anything over X amount of tradebars is account bound if you are worried about the ah.
VIP is fine the way it is. You don't need to change anything.
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kreatyveMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 10,545Community Moderator
More than anything, I would like to see the trade bar store updated. As it stands, all I do with tradebars is wait for a sale, then buy up stones of health or scrolls of mass life whichever is more on the ah. Throw an account bound leg mount on the store. Pres wards, coal wards, relevant artifacts, cool transmutes. You could put a hard cap on the store that anything over X amount of tradebars is account bound if you are worried about the ah.
VIP is fine the way it is. You don't need to change anything.
Right? The trade bar store feels like the "VIP store" anyway, since you get trade bars from the keys. Granted, you can get them without VIP. Do we really need ANOTHER currency?
My opinions are my own. I do not work for PWE or Cryptic. - Forum Rules - Protector's Enclave Discord - I play on Xbox Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official. Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
If you look at Undercutting in a different light it actually helps the AH IMO. Undercutting helps keep greed in check and allows for a quick turn around for those who need some quick AD. Undercutting as a strategy pales in comparison to outright market manipulation by groups of organized players.
Thank you for the lively discussion so far! While reading over the different comments, I have the knowledge of "player status" in the back of my head - endgame/casual, veteran/newer, etc. I'm pretty familiar with folks in these forums by now but others may not be and there's some newer/don't post as frequently faces showing up (which is great! More variety of voices hopefully leads to richer conversations!). Some of you already allude to it in your posts but would would it be useful if everyone included that info? It may help provide perspective to where they are coming from.
As a side note, there's been a lot of conversations stemming from the AH portion but it's gone into off-topic territory. We do want to keep this thread centered on VIP as a whole, not just 1 element of it.
@cwhitesidedev#9752Every single one of the players that used the exploit with the stardock lockbox should be suspended permanently, they knowingly broke the ToS.
@cwhitesidedev#9752Every single one of the players that used the exploit with the stardock lockbox should be suspended permanently, they knowingly broke the ToS. If you truly let them go with out consequences you're setting a very bad example that braking the ToS can be a good thing and this will bite you in the a** (sorta speak) in the furture when someone else brakes the ToS and remindes you of this incident that you just let go by, you should not suspend them ether then or anyone else for braking the ToS at all, I think you see what am getting at, this is wrong, very wrong, suspend them all, they known what they are doing and that this could very well happen to then but did it anyways. Do the right thing!
Hello Nebo,
It was not an exploit. It was not a bug either:
'We have been exploring improved chase item odds in lockboxes internally. This has been an ongoing experiment, and while it wasn't ready to release yet for a few reasons, the exploratory work had been done during the same time as other Infernal Descent (M18) work. When we decided to hold the changes for a later release, we missed (turning of) the Stardock lock-box (experimental version) and players experienced a partial set of changes to that lock box in the early hours of launch.'
It was our fault. We are working hard to ensure our release quality improves and you can see aspects of this in Mod 18 already. I appreciate your opinion but sorry I don't agree. Whilst this is an off topic comment i would like it to stay here so folks can see the difference between the incident and the CDP topic.
Thanks
Chris
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
Well, if it helps with the discussion, my perspective comes from the extreme endgame (0.01%).
Thank you for the lively discussion so far! While reading over the different comments, I have the knowledge of "player status" in the back of my head - endgame/casual, veteran/newer, etc. I'm pretty familiar with folks in these forums by now but others may not be and there's some newer/don't post as frequently faces showing up (which is great! More variety of voices hopefully leads to richer conversations!). Some of you already allude to it in your posts but would would it be useful if everyone included that info? It may help provide perspective to where they are coming from.
As a side note, there's been a lot of conversations stemming from the AH portion but it's gone into off-topic territory. We do want to keep this thread centered on VIP as a whole, not just 1 element of it.
you can probably also kinda tell by post count who the old timers are. I'm veteran endgame. xbox platform but I've played on all three with some degree of depth. with the plans to merge the forum it might be handy if you can do some sort of tag for platform.
3
putzboy78Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,950Arc User
@nitocris83 / @cwhitesidedev#9752 I feel like you are missing a step. It looks like you are just asking: would you like to see in an expansion to VIP? I think, like any problem, we need to start with an idea of what objectives are we trying to accomplish or what problem are we trying to solve.
Is participation in VIP to low and as such we need to make it more attractive?
Does VIP cause an imbalance issue in the game and as such needs to be adjusted (i.e. rewards are hurting the market)?
Is VIP driving too much long-term participation? Which I think was the role of having ranks.
I have my own ideas of course but that’s just the proverbially throwing HAMSTER against a wall to see what sticks. Is it possible with these CDP efforts that they can get more clearly defined up front? I’m afraid if people offer solutions not relevant to the undefined problem they will not get exercised then people will become disenfranchised with the process.
You are asking for that kind of structure in our feedback but not providing it in the definition of the topic. Ex
Thank you for the lively discussion so far! While reading over the different comments, I have the knowledge of "player status" in the back of my head - endgame/casual, veteran/newer, etc. I'm pretty familiar with folks in these forums by now but others may not be and there's some newer/don't post as frequently faces showing up (which is great! More variety of voices hopefully leads to richer conversations!). Some of you already allude to it in your posts but would would it be useful if everyone included that info? It may help provide perspective to where they are coming from.
As a side note, there's been a lot of conversations stemming from the AH portion but it's gone into off-topic territory. We do want to keep this thread centered on VIP as a whole, not just 1 element of it.
you can probably also kinda tell by post count who the old timers are. I'm veteran endgame. xbox platform but I've played on all three with some degree of depth. with the plans to merge the forum it might be handy if you can do some sort of tag for platform.
Not exactly, I have been playing far longer than I have been posting on the official forums and I often read more than I post. I even know many who were here far before I was who never even bother to visit these forums. I agree that there should be some kind of flair or icon to help differentiate between platforms though. Like you said in one of your earlier posts things are a bit different between platforms. Your viewpoint is unique and valuable because of that insight. As an after thought maybe there could even be a sort of CDP participation icon, title or flair for people who contribute to the CDP within the rules and in the desired format.
In the first phase of this CDP we would like you to think and comment about these questions:
The rate of free keys
We currently grant a key a day, which is 30 a month. We want to preserve the value of VIP, so if lockbox odds are improved by 2x or even 3x, how would you view altering the rate of free keys to keep a similar value?
Alternates to keys
How would you feel about getting a currency with VIP that allowed you to get items other than keys from your daily login? Would you choose to get wards, enchanting stones, or other valuable items instead of keys if you had that option?
Ranks
How would you feel about the removal of ranks on VIP, granting full benefits of VIP 12 while active? What do you value about ranks?
Current Benefits
Which of the current benefits of VIP do you value and why?
New Benefits
What would you like to see added in terms of benefits?
Auction House
Having one group able to list an item, de-list, and re-list again at no cost/penalty to undercut is not healthy for the Auction House and we’d like that to be a better experience for everyone. What are your thoughts in regard to this statement?
Here is an example of how VIP could look. Note: this is just an example but it is here to help provide insight and context into some of our thoughts:
VIP Example
Instead of directly getting reroll tokens, VIP would be given a VIP currency and would have a store. The contents of this store would adjust over time but would likely start with things such as Preservation Wards, Enchanting Stones, Companion Upgrade Tokens, and yes Reroll Tokens.
10-15 Lockbox Keys per month – These would now be in the new VIP store and players could go all in on keys only to max out at 15, or could opt for fewer keys and more of the other rewards which gives players more flexibility in what VIP offers them.
Increased odd chances on items in Lockboxes moving forward.
A higher cap on refined AD per day for VIP, 15% more for a cap of 115,000
Ability for VIP to change loadouts away from campfires
Increased health gain from VIP – grants every member of your group 1% of their base HP as additional Max HP. Maximum 5% with a full group of VIP.
Removal of VIP ranks meaning that anyone who purchases VIP gets full benefits immediately.
As part of our stated goal of increased transparency and collaboration, we would like to hear your feedback, potential approaches or solutions, and participate in a dialogue regarding this topic. We look forward to engaging in productive discussions and putting together a proposal based on the ideas generated within this thread.
Note: Using the feedback format below allows us to better identify commonalities/differences and generate summaries and proposals more efficiently. As a reminder, the format is for feedback proposals, not for discussions/replies to another user’s proposal.
Feedback Format
Feedback Overview (short description of the proposed feedback) Feedback Goal (what this feedback would target and accomplish) Feedback Functionality (how would your feedback work in relation to the current design of Neverwinter) Risks & Concerns (what problems can you foresee with implementing your feedback that you would like input on from members of this subforum)
Topic Discussion End Date: January 31, 2020
Reminders
We will not disclose information regarding unreleased or in-development content. This includes specific business-related metrics, dates or timelines, or licensing agreements.
Game development is the primary focus of the team - developer presence on these subforums cannot realistically be as frequent as the community would like. This does not mean the team is not invested in this initiative; it is taken very seriously. Thread summaries and actions plans developed once a topic has concluded its run are extremely valuable in maintaining the development team aware of the focused feedback, discussions, and community sentiment.
These subforums are meant to be a collaborative discussion where we all learn from each other, share perspectives, and come to the table with ideas for the improvement of Neverwinter. This does not mean that we will take action on every proposal or that positive comments from the development team are to be construed as promises.
*Rewards & Progression has been rescheduled for the third CDP topic, followed by PvP.
Galactic underwear here. Content creator ( youtube, twitch ) for those who don't know me.
just a few opinions below. ( whiteside i have faith in you, even made some vids about you lol ) hope you make nw great again. Okay to the brass tax now.
THE RATE OF FREE KEYS. No need to change the odds, why not just upgrade the quality of the rewards? making it x2, or 3 won't mean a thing if the rewards are horrible and not useful. it is very easy to up odds on preview so people can test it, then on live the odds can be entirely different. no way to accurately test odds on live, unless you have billion of zen and ad.
ALTERNATES TO KEYS. Depends on the currency, we still have currencies that are to this day, useless. if they have an equal value, then i don't mind it.
RANKS Removing ranks to VIP, imo would make VIP lose value overall. i think you should keep the ranks, just up the value or each rank, because some ranks are not even useful.
CURRENT BENEFITS. Obvious answers for what i like in VIP are, signpost, summon bank, mail etc. no injuries, discount on ad.
P.S Chris Whiteside, i think it would also be a good idea, to explain your vision more accurately, i know people who are freaking out over the idea of 1 mod per year. Just an idea, people would appreciate it. maybe in a community stream?
Oh and recycled content needs to stop
Also how about adding a pve ranking system ? for example, players with the highest dps overal ( % based ) , best healers , best tank ( so most dmg taken or something ), it can be divided by class, or all together, it can also be reset every month, 3 months or 6 months. Just an idea, would be fun to see a standings board . ( just thinking out of the box)
Comments
Adding a posting fee for everyone is more unfair as that penalises everyone, including those that don’t delist things, if there is genuinely a need to stop people from delisting then relisting cheaper then the only ‘fair’ way to stop that is to add a fee for delisting.
"if lockbox odds are improved by 2x or even 3x, how would you view altering the rate of free keys to keep a similar value?"
Hilarious. Your drop rates are bad enough that you'd have to multiply them by 10 to be measurable.
The number of keys is valuable because you can open more of the older Lockboxes and get more consistent rewards. If you give us less keys, you reduce the value of VIP.
Alternates to keys
VIP Currency would only matter if the VIP shop actually contained items we need (wards, refining stones, companion tokens, etc.). Too often stores are full of junk. ... You also reduce the value of VIP because although the drop rates on keys are terrible, there is at least a glimmer of a chance at getting an awesome reward. Without keys, you never get that chance.
Ranks
Full benefits would be fine. Currently the only benefit I don't care about is the teleport to Moonstone Mask.
For the Auction House:
The AH is already very expensive to post on. Even if you're not paying the posting fee, you still pay the 10% tax on anything sold. This means it's already more beneficial to trade with other players for real profit. Many times the actual profit margin even for VIP members is very thin.
What would happen if VIP had to pay listing fees? The availability of a ton of items will disappear. Right now I can list all kinds of things and even if they don't sell, I can post them until they do. If I have to pay a fee, 80-90% of the items on the market will fall off because unless you can guarantee a profit, you won't be able to list anything. ... This includes a lot of items that are helpful to other players — crafting suppllies/tools, quest items, vanity mounts, stronghold items, appearance items, etc.
If you're going to try to rework 'no-posting-fee for VIP', something else needs to change so players can post items cost effectively. Maybe make the posting fee minimal and reduce the sale tax? Right now the costs are exorbitant. If I have items that aren't useful to me, they will just get trashed. For most things there's no profit and all negative. ... I see killing the VIP AH benefit as killing the inventory of the AH, and filling up Protectors Enclave with spammers trying to trade direct.
VIP Example Feedback:
1. Ok but you're reducing the value of VIP by giving less keys. Players will be mad.
2. Increased Lockbox odds to what? Players have been opening boxes for years and never gotten a Leg mount.
3. Refining more AD sounds nice and would be welcome. (I play on xbox)
4. Changing Loadouts would be nice.
5. Removing Ranks would be nice.
6. I could care less about the health increase. If it makes that much a difference, I must be playing wrong.
7. I play multiple characters. If I have spend all my VIP currency just to get enough reroll tokens, I'm going to be mad.
Concerns
See the AH comments for my economy concerns.
You can't candy-coat it. By removing keys, you reduce VIP value.
Honestly, VIP is your most in-demand item. Why are you messing with it in the first place?
I'm not terribly keen on any 'alternates' being introduced, but should that occur, I'd be most interested in wards.
2. I've been rank 12 pretty much since VIP was introduced, but yeah, I'm fine with eliminating ranks. Makes it easier to explain to people.
3. What I like right now: pretty much everything in VIP gets used. Travel post, bank, vendors, rerolls, keys...
4. Things I'd like to see: increased AD refinement cap would be nice. I thought increased HP was already a perk, so I'd kinda like to keep it.
I'd suggest a summonable altar and have it count as the 'campfire' for both invoking and loadout swapping. You could even allow the consumable altars to be used for loadout swaps for non-VIP players. You can't summon the altar during combat, so it prevents swapping in fights.
Lastly, re: AH posting fees. I like the lack of posting fees, and think the AH cut is plenty fair. That being said, should an adjustment be needed, I'd suggest a simple reduction of both the posting fee and AH cut if at all possible. If not, simply cut the posting fee in half for those with VIP - that way it will still cost to list items, but the hit will be smaller for those investing in VIP.
As much as im against losing 30 keys a month if the trade off seemed fair then I cant complain & the prospect of earning a currency to pick up some companions from the trade bar store does have an appeal.
Alongside all of this though I still dont think a new currency is necessary & would rather it be integrated into an existing one.
100 Zen = 75k AD
So, on the topic of removing our daily Key. For those who purchased VIP with the knowledge that they would receive their moneys worth in zen by logging in 10 days every 30 days, you cannot take this value away without refunding those who paid for this value.
So, either give us an option to:
-> receive 75k refined AD daily,
-> or 15 reroll tokens instead (75k/5k=15),
-> or 1 currency to purchase items which are kept up to date with supply and demand, For instance at the current rate 99 pres wards are sold at about 750k, so if I received 10 pres wards a day instead of my key I would be satisfied, However this would cause an increase in available pres wards devaluing them, so this would have to be directly linked to the AH listings and the conversion kept up to date to give us 75k AD worth.
-> or just leave us with our daily Key (easy option)
However, you say you have limited resources as a company atm. Well if this is the case, please don't spend any of your time working on this VIP updating. We need class balance and for rewards in content to be worth our time.
Regards,
Aragon-Neverwinter
Balance out costs for people at all ranges in the game.
Feedback Goal
The cost of keeping the game afloat is set on the new players. Give the old players a reason to pay you to play the game.
Feedback Functionality
I see any changes you make to VIP as short term benefits to long term loss. If we get fewer keys but a higher chance to win I don't see that as much of a benefit. Eventually, the chance will be back down to where it is at right now or lower with fewer chances to open it. Due to past changes I see this more as a way to renegotiate the benefits to VIP and rarely is the side asking to renegotiate going to give more benefits from their side.
There currently lacks any inconvenience for players who don't put money into the game at end game right now. Most who are get items to sell to play for free. VIP should be purchased outside of the free model or there needs to be a limit to how much an account can convert AD to Zen for the year. Right now there are fully free to play players who dominate the markets at this time in an unhealthy way. Very few players would continue to play end game without VIP as the inconveniences would be more of an issue. The thing to know is that most who are replying to this probably don't put money into the game anymore. I think end game players would be more welcome to continue to put money into the game if it were for a stable benefit like VIP than any of your other products.
The extra money would have to be put towards the game in terms of more functionality in terms of playable content. I think most players would put $50 to $100 a year into the game if they were given another dungeon or two per year to play.
Risks & Concerns
VIP might look like pay to win if you implement this due to causing some players to actually pay into the running of the game instead of being free only players. VIP should be a luxury to have and those that want VIP should have to pay for it instead of just putting in time. While time is money most of the time in this case it isn't.
Yule (Barb): 72k : Siren (TR): 78k : Torun (DC): 73k : Siren OP (OP): 76k : Siren SW (SW): 78k : Modern (F): 80k : Cherry1 (CW) : 68k Siren HR (HR): 78k
Auction House
I agree that something needs to be done about the auction house, It should actually be the topic of it's own CDP like many other things. The problem with the auction house is much deeper than this problem as described above.
Some community members actually login to play the market. Yep, they login to pretend they are the CEO of their own little empire. They spend hours tracking prices and monitoring trends. They buy low and sell high, they corner certain subsets of the market and they have Millions of AD. They are having FUN in a way that the developers may not have thought about or even intended, but they are having fun and logging in every day to do so.
The AH in this game is broken. The search function rarely works, and because of this there are thousands of items for sale that the average player isn't even aware of. For example: I once told a group of guild members that they could buy campaign completion tokens from the AH. They were shocked! None of them knew that campaign completion tokens were available through the AH.
There are groups of players who control parts of the market. They have enough AD to buy out entire subsets of the market and then set the price for everyone else. If someone "Undercuts" they just buy them out. Simple, just like real life. There is nothing wrong with what they are doing IMO. They are playing the game the way it is created using resources they have earned in order to make a profit. Is it fair to new players? Probably not, but that is how the AH works in its current form.
An example of how cornering the market hurts the game: A couple of years ago a group of like minded individuals decided to buy up one part of every artifact set. They didn't buy the pieces that were easily farmed, they bought up the pieces that required a decent grind to obtain. These individuals jacked up the price on the pieces they bought up and relisted them. Overnight it became impossible for a "New" player to afford a basic piece for EVERY viable artifact set. We are not talking about just making a profit here, these individuals drove up the price by hundreds of thousands of AD and then bought all pieces that were listed at lower prices to keep the margin high. This behavior is still in practice to this day in different forms. Is it against the rules? No. IS it harmful to the game and the experience new players have? Yes.
If Cryptic wants to change the way the market works then they should go all in and change the ENTIRE market. Don't do a half assed job without investigating how the market actually works in its current form. If you do so you will drive away even more players like the ones I mention in the beginning of this post. There are SEVERAL posts about the AH by people who really know how to work it both here on the forums and across many websites if you look. Please do your research before making changes.
Possible actions to help repair the AH
Fix the search function for the AH.Remove the posting fee for everyone, VIP or not. This harms and restricts new players and has no effect on Veterans.
Institute a new "Tax" structure for items sold on the AH. For example a luxury tax on higher end items but also a much lower tax on everyday use items. Use real tax laws for inspiration.
Actually monitor the market. Have someone take time out of their day to look at trends, note who the big market players are and monitor what they are doing. If they are in your opinion abusing the system make rules and then fine them (think FTC).
When a new item is introduced to the game set a fixed "High" price in its metadata.
I have made Millions of AD playing the market in Neverwinter. It is fun and very profitable. Please think carefully about the changes you are going to make. The market is a very fragile thing.
Feedback Goal: (what this feedback would target and accomplish)
VIP needs a bit more value and some streamlining.
Feedback Functionality (how would your feedback work in relation to the current design of Neverwinter)
I enjoy my daily lockbox key. BUT, perhaps this can be made into a universal key – a key that opens lockboxes, dungeon chests, stronghold dragon boxes, etc. Give us the player the choice of what is important to us.
I also enjoy and use the travel signpost, mailbox, bank summons, and vendor. I do not use the moonstone mask teleport nor do I see a need for 2 vendors that I can sell items to being available. I would find useful the ability to donate to my guild/alliance chest and to check the guild bank as VIP perks.
I would not suggest removing ranks, but I would suggest consolidating ranks. There is no reason to have 3 ranks whose only use is to add 1 reroll token or 5% to some bonus. Just give us the full 3 reroll tokens and full 25% bonus at the time that rank is hit.
I have no comments on the AH. I rarely use the AH so this is not a consideration for me. I will note that most games I have played have had some perk to using the AH included in the VIP package, so this is clearly a popular benefit.
I do use my dungeon reward reroll token, although I would prefer these to be account bound instead of char bound (I am sure many of us have a few to several characters that just hang out for invoking purposes). Keep the limit of re-rolls to 5, but PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE have more useful rewards in the dungeon chests.
I am indifferent about the health potion reward. I use them, but I can just as easily craft them. I am also relatively indifferent to the VIP health bonus. At this stage of the game 2000HP is small potatoes, if you are going to have this be of value have it either higher, or a % of the player's HP pool (perhaps 5%).
All thing AD and RaD related – the more RaD/AD I can earn the better. I returned to NW less than a year ago and one thing that still bothers me is this ridiculously low cap on RaD to AD conversion, as when I had played previously I don't think there was a cap and just invoking gave RaD instead of this "bonus" we get now. I suppose I understand why it was done, but I think other solutions could have been found that would not have hurt new/returning players as much.
I enjoy invoking anywhere, and I certainly enjoy the injury immunity. Being able to swap loadouts outside of a campfire would be a nice perk too.
Rushing cost discount for companion training/workshop morale – I am indifferent to this.
In general the AD store and the tradebar store really need updated with more currently needed items. I do appreciate the wondrous bazaar VIP discount. The tradebar store is pretty much already a VIP currency store, so adding in yet another VIP currency makes no sense to me. What does make sense to me is updating the tradebar store with useful items (P-wards, C-wards, enchanting stones), or at least more items that folks might buy that are purely cosmetic (more fashion mounts, more wardrobe items, new dyes, old gear cosmetics, vanity pets, etc).
The 10% bonus XP is pretty standard for any game that offers VIP.
I 100% agree with the person who said to take VIP out of the Zen store. VIP should be purchased directly through Arc's website. There have been too many past issues with AD/Zen (such as the recent stardock legendary mount issue, can I have a choice of 12million AD or a 10K power mount for free now too please?) to have VIP remain in the Zen store.
Campaign currency reduction – I saw that idea in this thread and I agree that might be a good enhancement to VIP. Obtain the same amount of currencies while questing, but have a slightly reduced cost when you cash them in. As it is the currency caps on campaigns irks me.
Risks & Concerns (what problems can you foresee with implementing your feedback that you would like input on from members of this subforum)
VIP needs to add value in the mind of the player, which then stimulates them to buy it generating revenue for the game. Reducing the perception of value (such as less keys) is not going to be helpful. From what I have read the hottest topics are the daily keys and the AH benefits, with the re-roll tokens right behind them.
To note: I am posting from the viewpoint of someone who played back in 2013/2014, then returned in 2019. Questing is fun, but I am finding most of my fun here in NW to be group content. Therefore most of my efforts are based around making my characters the best they can be to hopefully do end-game content. I am still learning, but my guild/alliance seems to be pretty supportive of my efforts
This really should be the least priority and it will very likely NOT increase the attractiveness of the game.
Far more likely, that the changes will have a very negative effect when they go live.
Minimal chance that the long term positive effects, if any, will outweigh the negative effects.
Please focus on the more important issues, such as
- meaningful scaling (better no scaling at all)
- rewards that reflect the difficulty level,
etc.
Just to pick out two of the proposed changes:
1.) less lockbox keys, increased legendary drop rate
DON'T
This GREATLY devalues VIP (and everyone will realize):
If I get 15 keys instead of 30, I loose what is in 15 lockboxes.
Easy: The lockboxes don't just drop legendary items.
2.) AH posting fee
DON'T
Being able to "undercut" is a VERY MINOR problem for the economy, if any at all.
Usually people undercut by a negligible amount, so the item sells at practically the same price.
No effect at all for the economy.
However, an additional fee devalues AD even more, players will be very unhappy
If you wish to improve VIP in some areas, go ahead.
Some of the proposed improvements sound nice, but people's opinion of "how nice" will vary.
But many people will be very upset about the proposed nerfs.
In any case, if you plan to update VIP, you should NOT DEVALUE ANYTHING, that players already bought (such as x months of VIP left). This will alienate a large proportion of the player base, similar to MOD 16
Summary:
- Nerfing VIP for perks that players feel strongly about,
- compensating the nerfs by "improvements" that are perceived to have a rather "small impact"
is a very high risk undertaking,
that can lead to a situation similar to the introduction of MOD 16.
I would really advice highly against it.
There are far better ways to improve the game and to increase revenue.
Thanks for your post. I just want to clarify that multiple pieces of work happen at once. The only impact this CDP has in terms of delay is to the next CDP. We have multiple teams working in multiple areas.
It made sense to do this CDP now for the reasons we have explained. Personally I would have done it a bit later as it will take the CDP a few more rounds before really being able to efficiently tackle this kind of topic but we are true to our intent so here we are.
Thanks
Chris
Try to forget what was said so far and think about how I would like to change VIP in a cheap way
Feedback Goal
Improve VIP with less effort to implement and have better value to player. Hopefully, increase VIP sale for Cryptic and not trigger uprising beyond the title of Mod 17.
Feedback Functionality
- don't touch VIP key
- don't touch no posting fee feature
- allow loadout change away from camp fire
- extra daily moral for profession such as +40/+10%.
- extra discount of gold cost for profession. e.g. -5% gold cost or may be -0.5% per rank.
- no extra moral cost even if the task is not executed in the Workshop.
- put back VIP bundles to Zen store. Cryptic used to sell a 6 month bundle with a companion.
- VIP sales once a while, you are already doing it but may add extra 0.5% off discount per VIP rank.
- allow lockbox key to be picked up without login everyday. May be limit that to login at least once per week. That is the game will only hold up to 7 keys for you to pick up. If you login the 10th day, you can only pick up 7. If these players do not login, it is not a lose to Cryptic. If they just login/logout and do nothing, it is wasting your resource. In addition, your weekend only warrior can remove a reason blocking them to buy VIP.
- VIP store and use lockbox key and/or re-roll token as the currency to buy stuff from it. The items lockbox key or re-roll token can buy should be different.
I can think of many other features but I want to stay with my goal, "less effort to implement".
Risks & Concerns
I tried to choose the feature that is low/no risk.
I may expand my list when I think of something new.
My player status (as requested by Julie):
endgame minus one or two or three.
veteran, has played daily since mod 3.
VIP is fine the way it is. You don't need to change anything.
Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official.
Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
As a side note, there's been a lot of conversations stemming from the AH portion but it's gone into off-topic territory. We do want to keep this thread centered on VIP as a whole, not just 1 element of it.
It was not an exploit. It was not a bug either:
'We have been exploring improved chase item odds in lockboxes internally. This has been an ongoing experiment, and while it wasn't ready to release yet for a few reasons, the exploratory work had been done during the same time as other Infernal Descent (M18) work. When we decided to hold the changes for a later release, we missed (turning of) the Stardock lock-box (experimental version) and players experienced a partial set of changes to that lock box in the early hours of launch.'
It was our fault. We are working hard to ensure our release quality improves and you can see aspects of this in Mod 18 already. I appreciate your opinion but sorry I don't agree. Whilst this is an off topic comment i would like it to stay here so folks can see the difference between the incident and the CDP topic.
Thanks
Chris
Is participation in VIP to low and as such we need to make it more attractive?
Does VIP cause an imbalance issue in the game and as such needs to be adjusted (i.e. rewards are hurting the market)?
Is VIP driving too much long-term participation? Which I think was the role of having ranks.
I have my own ideas of course but that’s just the proverbially throwing HAMSTER against a wall to see what sticks. Is it possible with these CDP efforts that they can get more clearly defined up front? I’m afraid if people offer solutions not relevant to the undefined problem they will not get exercised then people will become disenfranchised with the process.
You are asking for that kind of structure in our feedback but not providing it in the definition of the topic. Ex
“Feedback Goal”
“Risks & Concerns”
Content creator ( youtube, twitch ) for those who don't know me.
just a few opinions below.
( whiteside i have faith in you, even made some vids about you lol )
hope you make nw great again. Okay to the brass tax now.
THE RATE OF FREE KEYS.
No need to change the odds, why not just upgrade the quality of the rewards?
making it x2, or 3 won't mean a thing if the rewards are horrible and not useful.
it is very easy to up odds on preview so people can test it, then on live the odds can be entirely different.
no way to accurately test odds on live, unless you have billion of zen and ad.
ALTERNATES TO KEYS.
Depends on the currency, we still have currencies that are to this day, useless.
if they have an equal value, then i don't mind it.
RANKS
Removing ranks to VIP, imo would make VIP lose value overall.
i think you should keep the ranks, just up the value or each rank, because some ranks are not even useful.
CURRENT BENEFITS.
Obvious answers for what i like in VIP are, signpost, summon bank, mail etc.
no injuries, discount on ad.
P.S Chris Whiteside, i think it would also be a good idea, to explain your vision more accurately, i know people who are freaking out over the idea of 1 mod per year. Just an idea, people would appreciate it. maybe in a community stream?
Oh and recycled content needs to stop
Also how about adding a pve ranking system ? for example, players with the highest dps overal ( % based ) , best healers , best tank ( so most dmg taken or something ), it can be divided by class, or all together, it can also be reset every month, 3 months or 6 months. Just an idea, would be fun to see a standings board . ( just thinking out of the box)
i have tons of ideas, but not enough space
Regards Galactic Underwear.