> @nitocris83 said: > In the first phase of this CDP we would like you to think and comment about these questions: > * The rate of free keys* We currently grant a key a day, which is 30 a month. We want to preserve the value of VIP, so if lockbox odds are improved by 2x or even 3x, how would you view altering the rate of free keys to keep a similar value? > > > > * Alternates to keys* How would you feel about getting a currency with VIP that allowed you to get items other than keys from your daily login? Would you choose to get wards, enchanting stones, or other valuable items instead of keys if you had that option? > > > > * Ranks* How would you feel about the removal of ranks on VIP, granting full benefits of VIP 12 while active? What do you value about ranks? > > > > * Current Benefits* Which of the current benefits of VIP do you value and why? > > > > * New Benefits* What would you like to see added in terms of benefits? > > > * Auction House* Having one group able to list an item, de-list, and re-list again at no cost/penalty to undercut is not healthy for the Auction House and we’d like that to be a better experience for everyone. What are your thoughts in regard to this statement? > > > > > Here is an example of how VIP could look. Note: this is just an example but it is here to help provide insight and context into some of our thoughts: > > VIP Example* Instead of directly getting reroll tokens, VIP would be given a VIP currency and would have a store. The contents of this store would adjust over time but would likely start with things such as Preservation Wards, Enchanting Stones, Companion Upgrade Tokens, and yes Reroll Tokens. > > * 10-15 Lockbox Keys per month – These would now be in the new VIP store and players could go all in on keys only to max out at 15, or could opt for fewer keys and more of the other rewards which gives players more flexibility in what VIP offers them. > > * Increased odd chances on items in Lockboxes moving forward. > > * A higher cap on refined AD per day for VIP, 15% more for a cap of 115,000 > > * Ability for VIP to change loadouts away from campfires > > * Increased health gain from VIP – grants every member of your group 1% of their base HP as additional Max HP. Maximum 5% with a full group of VIP. > > * Removal of VIP ranks meaning that anyone who purchases VIP gets full benefits immediately. > > > As part of our stated goal of increased transparency and collaboration, we would like to hear your feedback, potential approaches or solutions, and participate in a dialogue regarding this topic. We look forward to engaging in productive discussions and putting together a proposal based on the ideas generated within this thread. > > Note: Using the feedback format below allows us to better identify commonalities/differences and generate summaries and proposals more efficiently. As a reminder, the format is for feedback proposals, not for discussions/replies to another user’s proposal. > > Feedback Format > > Feedback Overview (short description of the proposed feedback) > Feedback Goal (what this feedback would target and accomplish) > Feedback Functionality (how would your feedback work in relation to the current design of Neverwinter) > Risks & Concerns (what problems can you foresee with implementing your feedback that you would like input on from members of this subforum) > > Topic Discussion End Date: January 31, 2020 > > Reminders* We will not disclose information regarding unreleased or in-development content. This includes specific business-related metrics, dates or timelines, or licensing agreements. > > * Game development is the primary focus of the team - developer presence on these subforums cannot realistically be as frequent as the community would like. This does not mean the team is not invested in this initiative; it is taken very seriously. Thread summaries and actions plans developed once a topic has concluded its run are extremely valuable in maintaining the development team aware of the focused feedback, discussions, and community sentiment. > > * These subforums are meant to be a collaborative discussion where we all learn from each other, share perspectives, and come to the table with ideas for the improvement of Neverwinter. This does not mean that we will take action on every proposal or that positive comments from the development team are to be construed as promises. > > * Keep comments and discussions on topic and follow the CDP Conduct and Expectations. > > > *Rewards & Progression has been rescheduled for the third CDP topic, followed by PvP.
Thier revenue is from players and players will leave even more. You sound like a dev. Over 3 years I've played never got a legendary mount. Never got anything close and have been VIP every day. The drops should be better and people will put more into it the more they get out. We collect mounts and companions and will always look forward to the next one instead of it just been laborious.
@nitocris83 / @cwhitesidedev#9752 I feel like you are missing a step. It looks like you are just asking: would you like to see in an expansion to VIP? I think, like any problem, we need to start with an idea of what objectives are we trying to accomplish or what problem are we trying to solve.
Is participation in VIP to low and as such we need to make it more attractive?
Does VIP cause an imbalance issue in the game and as such needs to be adjusted (i.e. rewards are hurting the market)?
Is VIP driving too much long-term participation? Which I think was the role of having ranks.
I have my own ideas of course but that’s just the proverbially throwing HAMSTER against a wall to see what sticks. Is it possible with these CDP efforts that they can get more clearly defined up front? I’m afraid if people offer solutions not relevant to the undefined problem they will not get exercised then people will become disenfranchised with the process.
You are asking for that kind of structure in our feedback but not providing it in the definition of the topic. Ex
“Feedback Goal” “Risks & Concerns”
Hey Putzboy,
Thanks for your comments. Our goal in this CDP is listen to feedback on how VIP could be a better service both for the player and the business.
In the first phase of this CDP we would like you to think and comment about these questions:
The rate of free keys
We currently grant a key a day, which is 30 a month. We want to preserve the value of VIP, so if lockbox odds are improved by 2x or even 3x, how would you view altering the rate of free keys to keep a similar value?
Alternates to keys
How would you feel about getting a currency with VIP that allowed you to get items other than keys from your daily login? Would you choose to get wards, enchanting stones, or other valuable items instead of keys if you had that option?
Ranks
How would you feel about the removal of ranks on VIP, granting full benefits of VIP 12 while active? What do you value about ranks?
Current Benefits
Which of the current benefits of VIP do you value and why?
New Benefits
What would you like to see added in terms of benefits?
Auction House
Having one group able to list an item, de-list, and re-list again at no cost/penalty to undercut is not healthy for the Auction House and we’d like that to be a better experience for everyone. What are your thoughts in regard to this statement?
Here is an example of how VIP could look. Note: this is just an example but it is here to help provide insight and context into some of our thoughts:
VIP Example
Instead of directly getting reroll tokens, VIP would be given a VIP currency and would have a store. The contents of this store would adjust over time but would likely start with things such as Preservation Wards, Enchanting Stones, Companion Upgrade Tokens, and yes Reroll Tokens.
10-15 Lockbox Keys per month – These would now be in the new VIP store and players could go all in on keys only to max out at 15, or could opt for fewer keys and more of the other rewards which gives players more flexibility in what VIP offers them.
Increased odd chances on items in Lockboxes moving forward.
A higher cap on refined AD per day for VIP, 15% more for a cap of 115,000
Ability for VIP to change loadouts away from campfires
Increased health gain from VIP – grants every member of your group 1% of their base HP as additional Max HP. Maximum 5% with a full group of VIP.
Removal of VIP ranks meaning that anyone who purchases VIP gets full benefits immediately.
As part of our stated goal of increased transparency and collaboration, we would like to hear your feedback, potential approaches or solutions, and participate in a dialogue regarding this topic. We look forward to engaging in productive discussions and putting together a proposal based on the ideas generated within this thread.
Note: Using the feedback format below allows us to better identify commonalities/differences and generate summaries and proposals more efficiently. As a reminder, the format is for feedback proposals, not for discussions/replies to another user’s proposal.
Feedback Format
Feedback Overview (short description of the proposed feedback) Feedback Goal (what this feedback would target and accomplish) Feedback Functionality (how would your feedback work in relation to the current design of Neverwinter) Risks & Concerns (what problems can you foresee with implementing your feedback that you would like input on from members of this subforum)
Topic Discussion End Date: January 31, 2020
Reminders
We will not disclose information regarding unreleased or in-development content. This includes specific business-related metrics, dates or timelines, or licensing agreements.
Game development is the primary focus of the team - developer presence on these subforums cannot realistically be as frequent as the community would like. This does not mean the team is not invested in this initiative; it is taken very seriously. Thread summaries and actions plans developed once a topic has concluded its run are extremely valuable in maintaining the development team aware of the focused feedback, discussions, and community sentiment.
These subforums are meant to be a collaborative discussion where we all learn from each other, share perspectives, and come to the table with ideas for the improvement of Neverwinter. This does not mean that we will take action on every proposal or that positive comments from the development team are to be construed as promises.
*Rewards & Progression has been rescheduled for the third CDP topic, followed by PvP.
Galactic underwear here. Content creator ( youtube, twitch ) for those who don't know me.
just a few opinions below. ( whiteside i have faith in you, even made some vids about you lol ) hope you make nw great again. Okay to the brass tax now.
THE RATE OF FREE KEYS. No need to change the odds, why not just upgrade the quality of the rewards? making it x2, or 3 won't mean a thing if the rewards are horrible and not useful. it is very easy to up odds on preview so people can test it, then on live the odds can be entirely different. no way to accurately test odds on live, unless you have billion of zen and ad.
ALTERNATES TO KEYS. Depends on the currency, we still have currencies that are to this day, useless. if they have an equal value, then i don't mind it.
RANKS Removing ranks to VIP, imo would make VIP lose value overall. i think you should keep the ranks, just up the value or each rank, because some ranks are not even useful.
CURRENT BENEFITS. Obvious answers for what i like in VIP are, signpost, summon bank, mail etc. no injuries, discount on ad.
P.S Chris Whiteside, i think it would also be a good idea, to explain your vision more accurately, i know people who are freaking out over the idea of 1 mod per year. Just an idea, people would appreciate it. maybe in a community stream?
Oh and recycled content needs to stop
Also how about adding a pve ranking system ? for example, players with the highest dps overal ( % based ) , best healers , best tank ( so most dmg taken or something ), it can be divided by class, or all together, it can also be reset every month, 3 months or 6 months. Just an idea, would be fun to see a standings board . ( just thinking out of the box)
i have tons of ideas, but not enough space
Regards Galactic Underwear.
Thanks for the feedback and yes I/we watch your videos. We have lots of work to do, its exciting and thanks for being part of the journey.
Regarding:
P.S Chris Whiteside, i think it would also be a good idea, to explain your vision more accurately, i know people who are freaking out over the idea of 1 mod per year. Just an idea, people would appreciate it. maybe in a community stream?
We will be releasing a high level road map in the next two weeks. The focus is on release quality, player experience and evolving the game together moving forward so we have to be realistic about how we develop. The plan is two big mods a year with new focused content every two months. As we get better (all of us) with this model we will be able to add more content and maybe have a faster release cadence. A lot of info is in the Accesibility CDP in regard to this.
Lots of the team are reading the CDP actively at the moment by the way. Please do keep your thoughts and comments coming and if there are ideas you like or want to brainstorm on from others CDP members then please do so.
Lots of the team are reading the CDP actively at the moment by the way. Please do keep your thoughts and comments coming and if there are ideas you like or want to brainstorm on from others CDP members then please do so.
Chris
Thank you, appreciate the response!! tons of ideas to come..
About the mounts question. Having mounts go account wide instead of just character would be amazing and increase a lot of people to create new characters and possibly even come back to the game. Going forward with that question, i also would ask about companions also possibly going account wide. The way to upgrade them is very costly per companion and would personally like if either they went account wide or even changed the system on how to upgrade them.
About the mounts question. Having mounts go account wide instead of just character would be amazing and increase a lot of people to create new characters and possibly even come back to the game. Going forward with that question, i also would ask about companions also possibly going account wide. The way to upgrade them is very costly per companion and would personally like if either they went account wide or even changed the system on how to upgrade them.
We can discuss this in the next CDP. Thanks for taking the time to post though Rob.
So, I would tend to agree that a direct ability to change loadouts anywhere would be kinda "pay2win" (while I would love it as VIP) so how about instead, as we already have the ability to call a travel sign, mailbox and vendors, why not add a way for us to call a campfire? Through in the guild mimic and the guild bank too and those would be some really nice QoL additions.
As far as ranks.... I dunno. I don't really have much of an opinion on that since you never lose ranks.
Lockbox keys, I feel shouldn't change. The reason behind this is even if you tell us that lockbox odds are doubled or trippled, hell even 5x better than they are now, does that affect old boxes? If not that's a direct nerf if we want to open old boxes. Then you also have the fact that even if box odds are improved accross the game it still FEELS bad even if mathematically it's not. Getting less keys which we can see everyday vs lockbox odds we can't see means it will feel like you took away benefits.
Part of the issue with lockboxes is the new format (and the fact that all the artifacts are near worthless) provides so much junk. I'd love to see more balanced enchants (both armor and weapon) so that each lockbox had worthwhile enchantments in it. Maybe updated versions of older artifacts that are a new item but still work with the old set (assuming it had one) would add some value to newer lockboxes.
I would be in favor of faising the AD cap in general, as it stands now all the 100k limit has done is make me play alts less and spend less time in game. This also goes to the question I asked during the last livestream, will something be done to make your alts more useful since over time they have seemingly gone from useful (and almost required) to near pointless except for a few specific tasks. I realize this isn't the thread for that so I don't expect an answer on that here but it's something to acknowledge and think about.
The other big thing is AD sinks, we need more things to spend AD on. Perhaps we can buy companion tokens or even some types of seals for AD.
Auction house fees can cause an issue but at the same time, rather than eliminating that bonus for VIP players would likely HAMSTER off a lot of players, wouldn't it be better to instead remove AH posting fees entirely and just increase the sale fee slightly?
We currently grant a key a day, which is 30 a month. We want to preserve the value of VIP, so if lockbox odds are improved by 2x or even 3x, how would you view altering the rate of free keys to keep a similar value?
Part of the reason I pay for VIP is the free keys. I DO NOT want them taken away or reduced!! I still have several months of VIP that is already paid for, why would I want you to devalue something fir which I've already paid?
How would you feel about getting a currency with VIP that allowed you to get items other than keys from your daily login? Would you choose to get wards, enchanting stones, or other valuable items instead of keys if you had that option?
No, no, and no.
Ranks How would you feel about the removal of ranks on VIP, granting full benefits of VIP 12 while active? What do you value about ranks?
I paid for the ranks, I should get to keep them. A new VIP member SHOULD NOT have the same ranks and benefits as one who has been paying for a year or more.
Current Benefits Which of the current benefits of VIP do you value and why?
All of them. That's why I pay for VIP.
New Benefits What would you like to see added in terms of benefits?
The idea of being able to change loadouts is interesting.
In summary, I like the fact that I get reroll tokens because I'm VIP. No less keys for any reason. rAD cap is fine as it is. VIP Ranks should remain as they are or be further expanded. A new VIP member SHOULD NEVER get the same privileges as one who has paid for a longer time. I really don't like the idea of you changing something I've already paid for.
I have read the entire thread to this point and I get the following from what I have read:
A majority of the subset of players represented here are against changes to the amount of keys awarded as part of VIP. Many others are concerned with the concept of keys and lockboxes in general. (Future CDP?)
Everyone is concerned about devaluing VIP and losing something they feel they have paid for already.
While several differ on their opinions of how to implement a new "store" or "currency" for the most part everyone agrees that something needs to be done in this area, be it through the existing infrastructure via the Trade bar store or a New store as described in the example given. We are however divided on the need for a new currency with several pointing out the many currencies already available in game to include Trade bars. Several people pointed out the sad state of rewards/purchase options and items available for sale in the current stores and asked that they be updated.
Across the board it looks like everyone likes and values the QOL perks already included with VIP and encourage more of these types of perks to be implemented.
Almost everyone agrees that the ability to change loadouts anywhere at any time would be a desirable VIP benefit. Some even brought up the idea of a summonable campfire so that everyone in the party can get the benefit. (Good for showing off the benefits of VIP to those who do not have it.)
There are many differing opinions on the need for ranks in VIP and several support for doing away with ranks. Players that purchased VIP in the past obviously place more value on rank than others do and many have months if not years of backlogged VIP already purchased or earned. Many suggested a kind of VIP+ or longevity based VIP option to replace the current system which also has merits but requires more discussion. (Future CDP?)
Reroll tokens were discussed by many and opinions seem to differ based on how many they already have. Reroll tokens have value (AD) much like keys and should not be taken away without some form of equal compensation.
The auction house was discussed in several posts all of which were enlightening, but also somewhat derailed the main Topic of this CDP. Many feel that the auction house fee should be removed and many others think it should remain. This topic truly deserves it's own CDP and deeper discussion. Please do not make changes before thoroughly researching this area of the game as it will have MAJOR repercussions.
There is still some confusion over the format of this CDP in general and some concern that the topic of this CDP is not as important as other issues that are currently plaguing the game.
I think most of these sub topics have been explored in the discussion in this thread. But there are several that IMO deserve their own CDP. This is a recurring problem in that the scope of the CDPs tend to be elastic. I think this is because of the way the Topic is presented. The Format we are asked to use IMO would be best used by Julia to define the CDP.
Feedback Overview
Definition and scope of desired feedback
Feedback Goal
What this CDP would target and aim accomplish through member feedback. What specific goals are you trying to reach by obtaining our feedback on this topic?
Feedback Functionality
List subtopics and format for desired feedback.
Risks & Concerns
What problems can you foresee with implementing the goals and targets that you would like input on from members of this subforum.
If you use the format in this way the topic will be well defined and the scope will be set.
The format for discussion could look like this: Limited to 200 words, but CDP members can post as many as they want as long as the format is followed and it is on Topic.
Short Introduction
I have played since MOD X and consider myself as a Veteran member of the community, I am also an officer in X guild and I play on PC this is my (#)CDP.
General Feedback
Discussion of the main topic
Subtopic
Used to expand on topics in detail or quote/reply to other CDP members ideas
Subtopic
Used to expand on topics in detail or quote/reply to other CDP members ideas
Summary of feedback
Summary of all subtopics and risks/concerns
All of these format options are available in the toolbar and require no extra knowledge. Colors on the other hand require more in depth knowledge and are hard for some to use
Also please refrain from using acronyms, slang or office jargon like 'Critters' when defining or discussing the CDP topics. We have several people participating in these CDPs who are not native english speakers. It is often hard enough to understand english even without the use of uncommon words or acronyms.
So, I would tend to agree that a direct ability to change loadouts anywhere would be kinda "pay2win" (while I would love it as VIP) so how about instead, as we already have the ability to call a travel sign, mailbox and vendors, why not add a way for us to call a campfire? Through in the guild mimic and the guild bank too and those would be some really nice QoL additions.
As far as ranks.... I dunno. I don't really have much of an opinion on that since you never lose ranks.
Lockbox keys, I feel shouldn't change. The reason behind this is even if you tell us that lockbox odds are doubled or trippled, hell even 5x better than they are now, does that affect old boxes? If not that's a direct nerf if we want to open old boxes. Then you also have the fact that even if box odds are improved accross the game it still FEELS bad even if mathematically it's not. Getting less keys which we can see everyday vs lockbox odds we can't see means it will feel like you took away benefits.
Part of the issue with lockboxes is the new format (and the fact that all the artifacts are near worthless) provides so much junk. I'd love to see more balanced enchants (both armor and weapon) so that each lockbox had worthwhile enchantments in it. Maybe updated versions of older artifacts that are a new item but still work with the old set (assuming it had one) would add some value to newer lockboxes.
I would be in favor of faising the AD cap in general, as it stands now all the 100k limit has done is make me play alts less and spend less time in game. This also goes to the question I asked during the last livestream, will something be done to make your alts more useful since over time they have seemingly gone from useful (and almost required) to near pointless except for a few specific tasks. I realize this isn't the thread for that so I don't expect an answer on that here but it's something to acknowledge and think about.
The other big thing is AD sinks, we need more things to spend AD on. Perhaps we can buy companion tokens or even some types of seals for AD.
Auction house fees can cause an issue but at the same time, rather than eliminating that bonus for VIP players would likely HAMSTER off a lot of players, wouldn't it be better to instead remove AH posting fees entirely and just increase the sale fee slightly?
You said almost everything I wanted to say but far more succinctly than I ever could.
In addition to my agreement with darkstarrfoff I do have something to say about the alternatives to keys. A way I think that could work is if you had a "VIP Box" that players with VIP would receive everyday that had a choice of a key, wards, enchanting stones, etc. It would retain and possibly increase the value of VIP. I don't think removing or replacing keys is a good idea as it would lessen the appeal of VIP and alienate players who buy VIP months at a time expecting to receive 30 keys for each month they paid for.
Another thing I would suggest, if ranks are keep, is more for the lower VIP ranks. If you can only afford one month of VIP at a time it's easy to question if it's worth keeping up since most of the nicer benefit are 6+ ranks of VIP and there's always something you can think of that the money could go too if your on a budget.
eroll tokens were discussed by many and opinions seem to differ based on how many they already have. Reroll tokens have value (AD) much like keys and should not be taken away without some form of equal compensation.
eroll tokens were discussed by many and opinions seem to differ based on how many they already have. Reroll tokens have value (AD) much like keys and should not be taken away without some form of equal compensation.
Oh I agree, I was just trying my best to represent the conversation as I read it. Yeah don't mess with Mah Reroll tokens! :-p
How would it be fair in comparison for a new player who gets VIP to have all the rewards that a rank 12 now has. We have worked months to get to that point.
As far as removing or changing amount of keys we get. Don’t think that should be messed with at all. If anything we should get more keys per day for amount of time we have had VIP. Give us 1 more each day for every year we have had VIP
If you want to make any changes then have a option or multiple options for us to choose which we want. Keys daily, currency, etc...
I do agree with auction house posting. Change that someway to affect the ones who do it you undercut.
What about the player base that has been here since day one. The grind we did to get where we are at. The items that we have accumulated. Now you want to mess with some of that and possibly get it to a point that a new player can get to where a day one player is at or close.
I think messing with VIP overall is a bad decision. Might even come down to people not wanting VIP anymore or more players leaving the game.
Want to make changes. Make changes to the stronghold. Up the chances to do things to get more rewards. Shards are impossible to get. Give us more ways to obtain them align with other resources. Give us better gear in the stronghold to get with guild points. Fix broken and out of date things first before messing with a system that is already working. Strongholds really need reworked.
Wicked War1ock
3
plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,403Arc User
So, I would tend to agree that a direct ability to change loadouts anywhere would be kinda "pay2win" (while I would love it as VIP) so how about instead, as we already have the ability to call a travel sign, mailbox and vendors, why not add a way for us to call a campfire? Through in the guild mimic and the guild bank too and those would be some really nice QoL additions.
As far as ranks.... I dunno. I don't really have much of an opinion on that since you never lose ranks.
Lockbox keys, I feel shouldn't change. The reason behind this is even if you tell us that lockbox odds are doubled or trippled, hell even 5x better than they are now, does that affect old boxes? If not that's a direct nerf if we want to open old boxes. Then you also have the fact that even if box odds are improved accross the game it still FEELS bad even if mathematically it's not. Getting less keys which we can see everyday vs lockbox odds we can't see means it will feel like you took away benefits.
Part of the issue with lockboxes is the new format (and the fact that all the artifacts are near worthless) provides so much junk. I'd love to see more balanced enchants (both armor and weapon) so that each lockbox had worthwhile enchantments in it. Maybe updated versions of older artifacts that are a new item but still work with the old set (assuming it had one) would add some value to newer lockboxes.
I would be in favor of faising the AD cap in general, as it stands now all the 100k limit has done is make me play alts less and spend less time in game. This also goes to the question I asked during the last livestream, will something be done to make your alts more useful since over time they have seemingly gone from useful (and almost required) to near pointless except for a few specific tasks. I realize this isn't the thread for that so I don't expect an answer on that here but it's something to acknowledge and think about.
The other big thing is AD sinks, we need more things to spend AD on. Perhaps we can buy companion tokens or even some types of seals for AD.
Auction house fees can cause an issue but at the same time, rather than eliminating that bonus for VIP players would likely HAMSTER off a lot of players, wouldn't it be better to instead remove AH posting fees entirely and just increase the sale fee slightly?
You said almost everything I wanted to say but far more succinctly than I ever could.
In addition to my agreement with darkstarrfoff I do have something to say about the alternatives to keys. A way I think that could work is if you had a "VIP Box" that players with VIP would receive everyday that had a choice of a key, wards, enchanting stones, etc. It would retain and possibly increase the value of VIP. I don't think removing or replacing keys is a good idea as it would lessen the appeal of VIP and alienate players who buy VIP months at a time expecting to receive 30 keys for each month they paid for.
Another thing I would suggest, if ranks are keep, is more for the lower VIP ranks. If you can only afford one month of VIP at a time it's easy to question if it's worth keeping up since most of the nicer benefit are 6+ ranks of VIP and there's always something you can think of that the money could go too if your on a budget.
If you want a different choice as lockbox key alternative such as something from a VIP shop, there is a simple way to do so without VIP box and without upsetting those want to stay as is.
Everyone keep on getting a lockbox key everyday. No change. Set up a VIP shop and the currency to buy stuff from the VIP shop is the lockbox key. You make your decision when you want to use the lockbox key and not when you receive the lockbox key.
Similar can be done for re-roll token except it can only buy different kind of item because re-roll token is character bound and you can have many characters vs lockbox key is account bound and has one per account.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
Thank you for the lively discussion so far! While reading over the different comments, I have the knowledge of "player status" in the back of my head - endgame/casual, veteran/newer, etc. I'm pretty familiar with folks in these forums by now but others may not be and there's some newer/don't post as frequently faces showing up (which is great! More variety of voices hopefully leads to richer conversations!). Some of you already allude to it in your posts but would would it be useful if everyone included that info? It may help provide perspective to where they are coming from.
As a side note, there's been a lot of conversations stemming from the AH portion but it's gone into off-topic territory. We do want to keep this thread centered on VIP as a whole, not just 1 element of it.
you can probably also kinda tell by post count who the old timers are. I'm veteran endgame. xbox platform but I've played on all three with some degree of depth.
I was scared of you guys before, I didn't dare comment here.
eroll tokens were discussed by many and opinions seem to differ based on how many they already have. Reroll tokens have value (AD) much like keys and should not be taken away without some form of equal compensation.
Oh I agree, I was just trying my best to represent the conversation as I read it. Yeah don't mess with Mah Reroll tokens! :-p
honestly if they do any of these things that change vip in any significant way once it hit the outrage would be audible all the way to the north pole once it actually hit.
@nitocris83 / @cwhitesidedev#9752 I feel like you are missing a step. It looks like you are just asking: would you like to see in an expansion to VIP? I think, like any problem, we need to start with an idea of what objectives are we trying to accomplish or what problem are we trying to solve.
Is participation in VIP to low and as such we need to make it more attractive?
Does VIP cause an imbalance issue in the game and as such needs to be adjusted (i.e. rewards are hurting the market)?
Is VIP driving too much long-term participation? Which I think was the role of having ranks.
I have my own ideas of course but that’s just the proverbially throwing HAMSTER against a wall to see what sticks. Is it possible with these CDP efforts that they can get more clearly defined up front? I’m afraid if people offer solutions not relevant to the undefined problem they will not get exercised then people will become disenfranchised with the process.
You are asking for that kind of structure in our feedback but not providing it in the definition of the topic. Ex
“Feedback Goal” “Risks & Concerns”
Hey Putzboy,
Thanks for your comments. Our goal in this CDP is listen to feedback on how VIP could be a better service both for the player and the business.
Chris
@cwhitesidedev#9752 And that would be my entire point. I don't know the business model behind VIP. All goods from VIP have 0 value (outside of development/maintenance) to cryptic since we are talking about virtual goods. So in short the only thing cryptic would want is to get rid more people to buy VIP but I suspect that is not the goal else the question would be what more do you want from VIP not how should we change VIP. Statements like getting rid of the ranking leads me to believe the objective has something to do more attracting more short term players (in contrast the old system was to get people to keep players engaged longer). Reducing the key count would only serve to get people to log in less not log in more (an issue the game has had for awhile since it tried to become more weekend warrior friendly, in the opinion of a daily player who needs people to be social regularly).
From a player perspective improving VIP simply means giving us more stuff (or making VIP cheaper to buy). So give me everything for free and charge me nothing for it.
This model doesn't really work in terms of organizing our objectives. I would instead come at it from a more specific angle. ex.
How to get more interest for people to try VIP for the first time? Give them trial access (a week for example) to the items that won't directly impact to the economy. Giving them a key to those fake lockboxes you use to teach new players how to use a lockbox instead of the real lockbox keys, signage etc. to lore them in on the QoL advantages of VIP. Perhaps gate it behind a certain lvl of progression in the game (add it to the box of goodies for starting undermountain?). If you've had VIP, you know that being without it becomes pretty painful, ask anyone who goes on preview.
How to get people who have had VIP in the past to reactivate it (the ones still engaged in the game)? I find this scenario hard to believe, but if anything the reason to not have VIP once you've had it, is if you believe the rewards are not so good. i.e improve the awards and/or bundle VIP purchases with other zen market items like we did in the past (there's a reason my VIP status will far outlive this game).
People who have and keep VIP don't need attention since they don't resolve any problem that I can visualize. You already have them as a customer.
People who had VIP and stopped playing the game? that's not a VIP problem, although if they don't even bother to log in and gather keys that would show a bigger frustration with the game than someone simply not playing. That says they don't see a scenario where those keys will have value in the future... ever.
I would cryptic would want to focus on 1 or 2 above.
The big warning I would make is any nerf (perceived or real) will not go over well. I wouldn't change the number of keys. Even if you want to reduce the rewards, I'd reduce it in the background (nerf lockboxes). Whatever change you make has to be perceived as positive.
NO NEW STORES. There is a dragon in PE, near Neverember who trades dragon scales and hasn't been updated since module 4. Stronghold vendors have been largely untouched since module 7. I would like to callout that the seal vendors were updated for module 18 which typically never has been done before the module release so you guys did a good job there. The wondrous bazaar is a disaster since almost all items are cheaper on the AH. Trade Bar merchant is mostly useless since they nerfed its reward options. Great Hall furniture has 0 value and is in all these places which was a waste of dev time. We don't need new stores, we need you to narrow down these things to a point that you have the resources to maintain them each module. There is no room in the game for new stores, so please don't even consider it as you will only be rewarded with complaints next module when it becomes obsolete.
Anyhow I will write up some ideas later, but I want to continue to stress we really could use more direction in defining the objectives in this exercise. And as @skatopsixos7 noted, we need a roadmap asap. I'm already getting messages from guildies who are leaving because they are not happy with mod 18 and hearing that there will be no new module until the end of the year. People need hope, as it currently sits all we know is the module system. Your vision of chapters in bi-monthly release cycles needs be explained in clear table to provide people with a reason to not take a break until module 19 comes out.
@putzboy78 AWESOME! You hit the nail on the head so many times you drove it through the wood! Thank you for taking the time to make this post, you said what I have been trying to find the words to say in a much better way than I could have.
@nitocris83 / @cwhitesidedev#9752 I feel like you are missing a step. It looks like you are just asking: would you like to see in an expansion to VIP? I think, like any problem, we need to start with an idea of what objectives are we trying to accomplish or what problem are we trying to solve.
Is participation in VIP to low and as such we need to make it more attractive?
Does VIP cause an imbalance issue in the game and as such needs to be adjusted (i.e. rewards are hurting the market)?
Is VIP driving too much long-term participation? Which I think was the role of having ranks.
I have my own ideas of course but that’s just the proverbially throwing HAMSTER against a wall to see what sticks. Is it possible with these CDP efforts that they can get more clearly defined up front? I’m afraid if people offer solutions not relevant to the undefined problem they will not get exercised then people will become disenfranchised with the process.
You are asking for that kind of structure in our feedback but not providing it in the definition of the topic. Ex
“Feedback Goal” “Risks & Concerns”
Hey Putzboy,
Thanks for your comments. Our goal in this CDP is listen to feedback on how VIP could be a better service both for the player and the business.
Chris
@cwhitesidedev#9752 And that would be my entire point. I don't know the business model behind VIP. All goods from VIP have 0 value (outside of development/maintenance) to cryptic since we are talking about virtual goods. So in short the only thing cryptic would want is to get rid more people to buy VIP but I suspect that is not the goal else the question would be what more do you want from VIP not how should we change VIP. Statements like getting rid of the ranking leads me to believe the objective has something to do more attracting more short term players (in contrast the old system was to get people to keep players engaged longer). Reducing the key count would only serve to get people to log in less not log in more (an issue the game has had for awhile since it tried to become more weekend warrior friendly, in the opinion of a daily player who needs people to be social regularly).
From a player perspective improving VIP simply means giving us more stuff (or making VIP cheaper to buy). So give me everything for free and charge me nothing for it.
This model doesn't really work in terms of organizing our objectives. I would instead come at it from a more specific angle. ex.
How to get more interest for people to try VIP for the first time? Give them trial access (a week for example) to the items that won't directly impact to the economy. Giving them a key to those fake lockboxes you use to teach new players how to use a lockbox instead of the real lockbox keys, signage etc. to lore them in on the QoL advantages of VIP. Perhaps gate it behind a certain lvl of progression in the game (add it to the box of goodies for starting undermountain?). If you've had VIP, you know that being without it becomes pretty painful, ask anyone who goes on preview.
How to get people who have had VIP in the past to reactivate it (the ones still engaged in the game)? I find this scenario hard to believe, but if anything the reason to not have VIP once you've had it, is if you believe the rewards are not so good. i.e improve the awards and/or bundle VIP purchases with other zen market items like we did in the past (there's a reason my VIP status will far outlive this game).
People who have and keep VIP don't need attention since they don't resolve any problem that I can visualize. You already have them as a customer.
People who had VIP and stopped playing the game? that's not a VIP problem, although if they don't even bother to log in and gather keys that would show a bigger frustration with the game than someone simply not playing. That says they don't see a scenario where those keys will have value in the future... ever.
I would cryptic would want to focus on 1 or 2 above.
The big warning I would make is any nerf (perceived or real) will not go over well. I wouldn't change the number of keys. Even if you want to reduce the rewards, I'd reduce it in the background (nerf lockboxes). Whatever change you make has to be perceived as positive.
NO NEW STORES. There is a dragon in PE, near Neverember who trades dragon scales and hasn't been updated since module 4. Stronghold vendors have been largely untouched since module 7. I would like to callout that the seal vendors were updated for module 18 which typically never has been done before the module release so you guys did a good job there. The wondrous bazaar is a disaster since almost all items are cheaper on the AH. Trade Bar merchant is mostly useless since they nerfed its reward options. Great Hall furniture has 0 value and is in all these places which was a waste of dev time. We don't need new stores, we need you to narrow down these things to a point that you have the resources to maintain them each module. There is no room in the game for new stores, so please don't even consider it as you will only be rewarded with complaints next module when it becomes obsolete.
Anyhow I will write up some ideas later, but I want to continue to stress we really could use more direction in defining the objectives in this exercise. And as @skatopsixos7 noted, we need a roadmap asap. I'm already getting messages from guildies who are leaving because they are not happy with mod 18 and hearing that there will be no new module until the end of the year. People need hope, as it currently sits all we know is the module system. Your vision of chapters in bi-monthly release cycles needs be explained in clear table to provide people with a reason to not take a break until module 19 comes out.
Hi Putzboy,
The current direction as laid out is exactly what the first phase of this CDP needs to be. The questions are there. There is an 'example'. I would prefer it if we can stay on topic please. The road-map will be shared once we have had the time to work out how to execute on it (Development, deployment, tech etc). Releasing a road-map out of the blue without discussion with the community about the overarching strategy would not be in the spirit of transparency nor collaboration. In the same way that updating VIP without an open discussion would not be in the spirit of the CDP.
Thanks for your comments regarding the topic. They are insightful.
Feedback Overview: Overall changes to VIP After reading through everyone's comments it is clear that making big changes (i.e. removing/changing existing benefits) would no sit well with people that have pre-paid VIP for months and years into the future. This problem is due to the fact that you sold rank plus time together...
Please don't take away existing benefits. People will value each benefit differently, but we all purchased VIP for a reason and making a change or removing will suck a lot.
Feedback Goal If you want to add your list of new benefits to the system, then we can (mostly) agree that (some of) your suggestions would be great additions. What I would suggest is to add more ranks to VIP (above 12) to fit in your additions. You can bundle some of them together, of course.
Consider reordering which benefits are accrued at each rank. However, you must ensure that if a player has an existing benefit at their current rank, that the are advanced in rank to still receive that benefit during your restructure.
Feedback Functionality Unbundle time from rank. If I am Rank 12 VIP with 24 months of time, and you restructure the system to have 16 ranks of VIP available, then I am advanced in Rank to match my current benefits (having access to all ranks rewards under my new rank). In my example let's say I get bumped to Rank 13... Now I am Rank 13/16 with 24 months and if I want the next level of reward, then I can purchase Rank 14, but still only have 24 months of time. In the future I can choose to buy more VIP time (or not) and you get the benefit of adding more ranks later on the other side of the model.
Feedback Overview Regarding lockbox percentage increases The percentage chance of getting the orange items we are all after is SO LOW that there is no real meaningful change that you would reasonably make (you wont increase our odds to 1/90).
Feedback Functionality What if you played into your dice rolling model a little more and included a 'Streak bonus' for VIP members. Could be anything rewarding free value to the results. Say, if we open 10 lockboxes and receive the same pack twice or three times in a row, we get increased odds at something, or a free key, or heavily increased odds of getting an orange result in our next open (say 2%).
Risks & Concerns Ultimately, any change to the lockbox odds will haev a heavy effect on the economy.
Here is an example of a really useful post (Thanks franklin). There are many more in this CDP and in the accessibility CDP.
There is no hyperbole, the poster is thinking broadly (which is exactly right for this stage of the CDP), Franklin has taken the time to read previous post and there is no emotion.
I would appreciate it if we can get back to the topic at hand for which we have had many great posts already.
you're wrong about needing 2 keys to open a lockbox not inciting a riot. we aren't stupid.
Let me quote you something, back when World of Warcraft was starting out they were trying different systems to try to make sure players took some rest after playing for X hours, and initially they came up with a system that lowered experience received the more time someone spent playing.
The idea was that after several hours of playing, it was good to encourage players to take a break. But people hated this, and said that they felt 'punished for playing'.
After seeing the feedback, they turned the concept on its head and instead decided to give a "Bonus to experience" that recharged while you were offline and ended roughly around the time the old experience penalty would kick in.
People found this much more agreeable and was implemented. Any World of Warcraft players here might be able to say if it is still currently in the game.
The numbers between the two systems were exactly the same, and yet all it took was a shift in perspective to leave players far happier with the system.
It is not about who "is stupid", but just a simple matter of perspective. There simply will not be the same amount of backlash between telling players that "They are getting half as many keys as they used to", and telling them that "There will be a new line of lockboxes with improved drops that require two keys but will not stop them from continuing to use the older lockboxes as they have up until now".
You are telling me that some people would not like it? You can be giving away free candy and still some people will not be happy about the fact.
If the Developers want to make Lockbox keys more "Especial" they are bound to ruffle some feathers, no matter the approach.
The stars are falling, and the old gods silent as death, with the blood sworn to rip you down from the night sky, what cost will pose too high?
6
plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,403Arc User
you're wrong about needing 2 keys to open a lockbox not inciting a riot. we aren't stupid.
Let me quote you something, back when World of Warcraft was starting out they were trying different systems to try to make sure players took some rest after playing for X hours, and initially they came up with a system that lowered experience received the more time someone spent playing.
The idea was that after several hours of playing, it was good to encourage players to take a break. But people hated this, and said that they felt 'punished for playing'.
After seeing the feedback, they turned the concept on its head and instead decided to give a "Bonus to experience" that recharged while you were offline and ended roughly around the time the old experience penalty would kick in.
People found this much more agreeable and was implemented. Any World of Warcraft players here might be able to say if it is still currently in the game.
The numbers between the two systems were exactly the same, and yet all it took was a shift in perspective to leave players far happier with the system.
It is not about who "is stupid", but just a simple matter of perspective. There simply will not be the same amount of backlash between telling players that "They are getting half as many keys as they used to", and telling them that "There will be a new line of lockboxes with improved drops that require two keys but will not stop them from continuing to use the older lockboxes as they have up until now".
You are telling me that some people would not like it? You can be giving away free candy and still some people will not be happy about the fact.
If the Developers want to make Lockbox keys more "Especial" they are bound to ruffle some feathers, no matter the approach.
Long ago there was a man, who kept many monkeys. Everybody called him Mr. Monkey. He knew the monkeys' temperament very well, and the monkeys could also understand what he said. Mr. Monkey's monkeys are different from the other monkeys. They didn't like to eat bananas or peanuts. They liked to eat a special kind of fruits instead. Everyday they ate a lot of this fruit, which was very expensive. Mr. Monkey didn't have enough money to buy that many for the monkeys. He intended to give them less, but was afraid that the monkeys would get mad at him. So he thought of an idea.
One morning, Mr. Monkey said to the monkeys: "From now on, I will give you three fruits in the morning and four in the evening. How is that?" Hearing this, the monkeys all said no, feeling he was giving too little. Upon this, Mr. Monkey smiled and said: "All right, I'll give you four in the morning, and three in the evening. Is it ok now?" All the monkeys were very happy to hear that and said ok. The idiom "Three in the morning and four in the evening" came from this story. However, the idiom carries a special meaning now： a person acts like this now, but acts like that later, very changeable.
But, we are not monkeys.
Post edited by plasticbat on
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
1
putzboy78Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,950Arc User
The road-map will be shared once we have had the time to work out how to execute on it (Development, deployment, tech etc). Releasing a road-map out of the blue without discussion with the community about the overarching strategy would not be in the spirit of transparency nor collaboration.
Sorry I was going off your response about a roadmap with the @skatopsixos7
I don't need a full roadmap, i need something I can easily direct disenchanted players to that gives them confidence that playing through February is worth their time. Words like 1-2 mods a year and mod 19 not until the end of the year is terrifying players. I'm not questioning your vision, I am pointing out that I have players (I should be clear that I am a guild leader of a guild with 120+ active players and have been watching their friends leave in droves over the past 12 months) that have legitimate concern that this means that there will be 0 new content between now and the end of 2020. What I need from you is something I can direct them to that gives them hope. Sooner the better as once they take their "break" from the game it becomes infinitely more challenging them to abandoned their new social environment to return to mine.
I'm sure you can see that getting them back is more and more difficult based on how mild the upswing in activity has been in the wake of module 18 release compared to past mods.
2
putzboy78Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,950Arc User
Please note that any nerf to VIP will be perceived as a bait & switch to anyone who has already purchased it. My recommendation would be to not change it substantively (i.e. less keys) without an opt in/opt out capability. ex. offer to buy them out of their contract or elect to stay in old program through the life of the existing VIP subscription. Giving them more control in what they may perceive as a combative situation.
you're wrong about needing 2 keys to open a lockbox not inciting a riot. we aren't stupid.
Let me quote you something, back when World of Warcraft was starting out they were trying different systems to try to make sure players took some rest after playing for X hours, and initially they came up with a system that lowered experience received the more time someone spent playing.
The idea was that after several hours of playing, it was good to encourage players to take a break. But people hated this, and said that they felt 'punished for playing'.
After seeing the feedback, they turned the concept on its head and instead decided to give a "Bonus to experience" that recharged while you were offline and ended roughly around the time the old experience penalty would kick in.
People found this much more agreeable and was implemented. Any World of Warcraft players here might be able to say if it is still currently in the game.
The numbers between the two systems were exactly the same, and yet all it took was a shift in perspective to leave players far happier with the system.
It is not about who "is stupid", but just a simple matter of perspective. There simply will not be the same amount of backlash between telling players that "They are getting half as many keys as they used to", and telling them that "There will be a new line of lockboxes with improved drops that require two keys but will not stop them from continuing to use the older lockboxes as they have up until now".
You are telling me that some people would not like it? You can be giving away free candy and still some people will not be happy about the fact.
If the Developers want to make Lockbox keys more "Especial" they are bound to ruffle some feathers, no matter the approach.
Feedback Overview: Overall changes to VIP After reading through everyone's comments it is clear that making big changes (i.e. removing/changing existing benefits) would no sit well with people that have pre-paid VIP for months and years into the future. This problem is due to the fact that you sold rank plus time together...
Please don't take away existing benefits. People will value each benefit differently, but we all purchased VIP for a reason and making a change or removing will suck a lot.
Feedback Goal If you want to add your list of new benefits to the system, then we can (mostly) agree that (some of) your suggestions would be great additions. What I would suggest is to add more ranks to VIP (above 12) to fit in your additions. You can bundle some of them together, of course.
Consider reordering which benefits are accrued at each rank. However, you must ensure that if a player has an existing benefit at their current rank, that the are advanced in rank to still receive that benefit during your restructure.
Feedback Functionality Unbundle time from rank. If I am Rank 12 VIP with 24 months of time, and you restructure the system to have 16 ranks of VIP available, then I am advanced in Rank to match my current benefits (having access to all ranks rewards under my new rank). In my example let's say I get bumped to Rank 13... Now I am Rank 13/16 with 24 months and if I want the next level of reward, then I can purchase Rank 14, but still only have 24 months of time. In the future I can choose to buy more VIP time (or not) and you get the benefit of adding more ranks later on the other side of the model.
Feedback Overview Regarding lockbox percentage increases The percentage chance of getting the orange items we are all after is SO LOW that there is no real meaningful change that you would reasonably make (you wont increase our odds to 1/90).
Feedback Functionality What if you played into your dice rolling model a little more and included a 'Streak bonus' for VIP members. Could be anything rewarding free value to the results. Say, if we open 10 lockboxes and receive the same pack twice or three times in a row, we get increased odds at something, or a free key, or heavily increased odds of getting an orange result in our next open (say 2%).
Risks & Concerns Ultimately, any change to the lockbox odds will haev a heavy effect on the economy.
Here is an example of a really useful post (Thanks franklin). There are many more in this CDP and in the accessibility CDP.
There is no hyperbole, the poster is thinking broadly (which is exactly right for this stage of the CDP), Franklin has taken the time to read previous post and there is no emotion.
I would appreciate it if we can get back to the topic at hand for which we have had many great posts already.
Thanks
Chris
Chris you are getting a lot of emotion from people because the wording of the original post in this thread is very threatening and in the last year we've taken a lot of hits from the game.
our trust, our morale is at a pretty low point for this game and we've had some serious lows. the examples in the op, read like: "this is what we're doing, lets talk about it and make it seem like you have some input..... but no matter what you say this is what is happening." and that's further highlighted by the fact that the lockbox thing was testing different drop rates. it looks very much like you're planning on dropping this on us and were in fact testing the waters for how angry we'd be.
because this has happened before. usually they pose it in a way where it can be dialed back just a little bit so it feels like we've had some kind of "win" when we're still hamstered. And not only was this an emotionally laden topic for the player base but we were prepared for something else. so it feels like a low blow. The feedback you've seen from a few of us on the wording in the op is real. it isn't phrased in a way where any kind of structured feedback makes sense. it appears to be a proposal, not an open ended quest for ideas. it's do you want a b or c.
a way to get most of us on the more open minded side of the equation is
how do you see vip going forward. GO!
not, so what do you think of having less keys and a oh boy 3x chance at things in lockboxes (like we don't know the odds already.) and nerf this and nerf that and how about some nerfball soup too?
Comments
> In the first phase of this CDP we would like you to think and comment about these questions:
> * The rate of free keys* We currently grant a key a day, which is 30 a month. We want to preserve the value of VIP, so if lockbox odds are improved by 2x or even 3x, how would you view altering the rate of free keys to keep a similar value?
>
>
>
> * Alternates to keys* How would you feel about getting a currency with VIP that allowed you to get items other than keys from your daily login? Would you choose to get wards, enchanting stones, or other valuable items instead of keys if you had that option?
>
>
>
> * Ranks* How would you feel about the removal of ranks on VIP, granting full benefits of VIP 12 while active? What do you value about ranks?
>
>
>
> * Current Benefits* Which of the current benefits of VIP do you value and why?
>
>
>
> * New Benefits* What would you like to see added in terms of benefits?
>
>
> * Auction House* Having one group able to list an item, de-list, and re-list again at no cost/penalty to undercut is not healthy for the Auction House and we’d like that to be a better experience for everyone. What are your thoughts in regard to this statement?
>
>
>
>
> Here is an example of how VIP could look. Note: this is just an example but it is here to help provide insight and context into some of our thoughts:
>
> VIP Example* Instead of directly getting reroll tokens, VIP would be given a VIP currency and would have a store. The contents of this store would adjust over time but would likely start with things such as Preservation Wards, Enchanting Stones, Companion Upgrade Tokens, and yes Reroll Tokens.
>
> * 10-15 Lockbox Keys per month – These would now be in the new VIP store and players could go all in on keys only to max out at 15, or could opt for fewer keys and more of the other rewards which gives players more flexibility in what VIP offers them.
>
> * Increased odd chances on items in Lockboxes moving forward.
>
> * A higher cap on refined AD per day for VIP, 15% more for a cap of 115,000
>
> * Ability for VIP to change loadouts away from campfires
>
> * Increased health gain from VIP – grants every member of your group 1% of their base HP as additional Max HP. Maximum 5% with a full group of VIP.
>
> * Removal of VIP ranks meaning that anyone who purchases VIP gets full benefits immediately.
>
>
> As part of our stated goal of increased transparency and collaboration, we would like to hear your feedback, potential approaches or solutions, and participate in a dialogue regarding this topic. We look forward to engaging in productive discussions and putting together a proposal based on the ideas generated within this thread.
>
> Note: Using the feedback format below allows us to better identify commonalities/differences and generate summaries and proposals more efficiently. As a reminder, the format is for feedback proposals, not for discussions/replies to another user’s proposal.
>
> Feedback Format
>
> Feedback Overview (short description of the proposed feedback)
> Feedback Goal (what this feedback would target and accomplish)
> Feedback Functionality (how would your feedback work in relation to the current design of Neverwinter)
> Risks & Concerns (what problems can you foresee with implementing your feedback that you would like input on from members of this subforum)
>
> Topic Discussion End Date: January 31, 2020
>
> Reminders* We will not disclose information regarding unreleased or in-development content. This includes specific business-related metrics, dates or timelines, or licensing agreements.
>
> * Game development is the primary focus of the team - developer presence on these subforums cannot realistically be as frequent as the community would like. This does not mean the team is not invested in this initiative; it is taken very seriously. Thread summaries and actions plans developed once a topic has concluded its run are extremely valuable in maintaining the development team aware of the focused feedback, discussions, and community sentiment.
>
> * These subforums are meant to be a collaborative discussion where we all learn from each other, share perspectives, and come to the table with ideas for the improvement of Neverwinter. This does not mean that we will take action on every proposal or that positive comments from the development team are to be construed as promises.
>
> * Keep comments and discussions on topic and follow the CDP Conduct and Expectations.
>
>
> *Rewards & Progression has been rescheduled for the third CDP topic, followed by PvP.
Thier revenue is from players and players will leave even more. You sound like a dev. Over 3 years I've played never got a legendary mount. Never got anything close and have been VIP every day. The drops should be better and people will put more into it the more they get out. We collect mounts and companions and will always look forward to the next one instead of it just been laborious.
Thanks for your comments. Our goal in this CDP is listen to feedback on how VIP could be a better service both for the player and the business.
Chris
Regarding:
P.S Chris Whiteside, i think it would also be a good idea, to explain your vision more accurately, i know people who are freaking out over the idea of 1 mod per year. Just an idea, people would appreciate it. maybe in a community stream?
We will be releasing a high level road map in the next two weeks. The focus is on release quality, player experience and evolving the game together moving forward so we have to be realistic about how we develop. The plan is two big mods a year with new focused content every two months. As we get better (all of us) with this model we will be able to add more content and maybe have a faster release cadence. A lot of info is in the Accesibility CDP in regard to this.
Chris
Chris
tons of ideas to come..
Have a good one.
Chris
As far as ranks.... I dunno. I don't really have much of an opinion on that since you never lose ranks.
Lockbox keys, I feel shouldn't change. The reason behind this is even if you tell us that lockbox odds are doubled or trippled, hell even 5x better than they are now, does that affect old boxes? If not that's a direct nerf if we want to open old boxes. Then you also have the fact that even if box odds are improved accross the game it still FEELS bad even if mathematically it's not. Getting less keys which we can see everyday vs lockbox odds we can't see means it will feel like you took away benefits.
Part of the issue with lockboxes is the new format (and the fact that all the artifacts are near worthless) provides so much junk. I'd love to see more balanced enchants (both armor and weapon) so that each lockbox had worthwhile enchantments in it. Maybe updated versions of older artifacts that are a new item but still work with the old set (assuming it had one) would add some value to newer lockboxes.
I would be in favor of faising the AD cap in general, as it stands now all the 100k limit has done is make me play alts less and spend less time in game. This also goes to the question I asked during the last livestream, will something be done to make your alts more useful since over time they have seemingly gone from useful (and almost required) to near pointless except for a few specific tasks. I realize this isn't the thread for that so I don't expect an answer on that here but it's something to acknowledge and think about.
The other big thing is AD sinks, we need more things to spend AD on. Perhaps we can buy companion tokens or even some types of seals for AD.
Auction house fees can cause an issue but at the same time, rather than eliminating that bonus for VIP players would likely HAMSTER off a lot of players, wouldn't it be better to instead remove AH posting fees entirely and just increase the sale fee slightly?
Part of the reason I pay for VIP is the free keys. I DO NOT want them taken away or reduced!! I still have several months of VIP that is already paid for, why would I want you to devalue something fir which I've already paid?
How would you feel about getting a currency with VIP that allowed you to get items other than keys from your daily login? Would you choose to get wards, enchanting stones, or other valuable items instead of keys if you had that option?
No, no, and no.
Ranks
How would you feel about the removal of ranks on VIP, granting full benefits of VIP 12 while active? What do you value about ranks?
I paid for the ranks, I should get to keep them. A new VIP member SHOULD NOT have the same ranks and benefits as one who has been paying for a year or more.
Current Benefits
Which of the current benefits of VIP do you value and why?
All of them. That's why I pay for VIP.
New Benefits
What would you like to see added in terms of benefits?
The idea of being able to change loadouts is interesting.
In summary, I like the fact that I get reroll tokens because I'm VIP. No less keys for any reason. rAD cap is fine as it is. VIP Ranks should remain as they are or be further expanded. A new VIP member SHOULD NEVER get the same privileges as one who has paid for a longer time. I really don't like the idea of you changing something I've already paid for.
- A majority of the subset of players represented here are against changes to the amount of keys awarded as part of VIP. Many others are concerned with the concept of keys and lockboxes in general. (Future CDP?)
- Everyone is concerned about devaluing VIP and losing something they feel they have paid for already.
- While several differ on their opinions of how to implement a new "store" or "currency" for the most part everyone agrees that something needs to be done in this area, be it through the existing infrastructure via the Trade bar store or a New store as described in the example given. We are however divided on the need for a new currency with several pointing out the many currencies already available in game to include Trade bars. Several people pointed out the sad state of rewards/purchase options and items available for sale in the current stores and asked that they be updated.
- Across the board it looks like everyone likes and values the QOL perks already included with VIP and encourage more of these types of perks to be implemented.
- Almost everyone agrees that the ability to change loadouts anywhere at any time would be a desirable VIP benefit. Some even brought up the idea of a summonable campfire so that everyone in the party can get the benefit. (Good for showing off the benefits of VIP to those who do not have it.)
- There are many differing opinions on the need for ranks in VIP and several support for doing away with ranks. Players that purchased VIP in the past obviously place more value on rank than others do and many have months if not years of backlogged VIP already purchased or earned. Many suggested a kind of VIP+ or longevity based VIP option to replace the current system which also has merits but requires more discussion. (Future CDP?)
- Reroll tokens were discussed by many and opinions seem to differ based on how many they already have. Reroll tokens have value (AD) much like keys and should not be taken away without some form of equal compensation.
- The auction house was discussed in several posts all of which were enlightening, but also somewhat derailed the main Topic of this CDP. Many feel that the auction house fee should be removed and many others think it should remain. This topic truly deserves it's own CDP and deeper discussion. Please do not make changes before thoroughly researching this area of the game as it will have MAJOR repercussions.
- There is still some confusion over the format of this CDP in general and some concern that the topic of this CDP is not as important as other issues that are currently plaguing the game.
I think most of these sub topics have been explored in the discussion in this thread. But there are several that IMO deserve their own CDP. This is a recurring problem in that the scope of the CDPs tend to be elastic. I think this is because of the way the Topic is presented. The Format we are asked to use IMO would be best used by Julia to define the CDP.Feedback Overview
Definition and scope of desired feedbackFeedback Goal
What this CDP would target and aim accomplish through member feedback. What specific goals are you trying to reach by obtaining our feedback on this topic?Feedback Functionality
List subtopics and format for desired feedback.Risks & Concerns
What problems can you foresee with implementing the goals and targets that you would like input on from members of this subforum.If you use the format in this way the topic will be well defined and the scope will be set.
The format for discussion could look like this: Limited to 200 words, but CDP members can post as many as they want as long as the format is followed and it is on Topic.
Short Introduction
I have played since MOD X and consider myself as a Veteran member of the community, I am also an officer in X guild and I play on PC this is my (#)CDP.General Feedback
Discussion of the main topicSubtopic
Used to expand on topics in detail or quote/reply to other CDP members ideasSubtopic
Used to expand on topics in detail or quote/reply to other CDP members ideasSummary of feedback
Summary of all subtopics and risks/concernsAll of these format options are available in the toolbar and require no extra knowledge. Colors on the other hand require more in depth knowledge and are hard for some to use
Also please refrain from using acronyms, slang or office jargon like 'Critters' when defining or discussing the CDP topics. We have several people participating in these CDPs who are not native english speakers. It is often hard enough to understand english even without the use of uncommon words or acronyms.
My .02c
In addition to my agreement with darkstarrfoff I do have something to say about the alternatives to keys. A way I think that could work is if you had a "VIP Box" that players with VIP would receive everyday that had a choice of a key, wards, enchanting stones, etc. It would retain and possibly increase the value of VIP. I don't think removing or replacing keys is a good idea as it would lessen the appeal of VIP and alienate players who buy VIP months at a time expecting to receive 30 keys for each month they paid for.
Another thing I would suggest, if ranks are keep, is more for the lower VIP ranks. If you can only afford one month of VIP at a time it's easy to question if it's worth keeping up since most of the nicer benefit are 6+ ranks of VIP and there's always something you can think of that the money could go too if your on a budget.
eroll tokens were discussed by many and opinions seem to differ based on how many they already have. Reroll tokens have value (AD) much like keys and should not be taken away
without some form of equal compensation.How would it be fair in comparison for a new player who gets VIP to have all the rewards that a rank 12 now has. We have worked months to get to that point.
As far as removing or changing amount of keys we get. Don’t think that should be messed with at all. If anything we should get more keys per day for amount of time we have had VIP. Give us 1 more each day for every year we have had VIP
If you want to make any changes then have a option or multiple options for us to choose which we want. Keys daily, currency, etc...
I do agree with auction house posting. Change that someway to affect the ones who do it you undercut.
What about the player base that has been here since day one. The grind we did to get where we are at. The items that we have accumulated. Now you want to mess with some of that and possibly get it to a point that a new player can get to where a day one player is at or close.
I think messing with VIP overall is a bad decision. Might even come down to people not wanting VIP anymore or more players leaving the game.
Want to make changes. Make changes to the stronghold. Up the chances to do things to get more rewards. Shards are impossible to get. Give us more ways to obtain them align with other resources. Give us better gear in the stronghold to get with guild points. Fix broken and out of date things first before messing with a system that is already working. Strongholds really need reworked.
Everyone keep on getting a lockbox key everyday. No change.
Set up a VIP shop and the currency to buy stuff from the VIP shop is the lockbox key. You make your decision when you want to use the lockbox key and not when you receive the lockbox key.
Similar can be done for re-roll token except it can only buy different kind of item because re-roll token is character bound and you can have many characters vs lockbox key is account bound and has one per account.
From a player perspective improving VIP simply means giving us more stuff (or making VIP cheaper to buy). So give me everything for free and charge me nothing for it.
This model doesn't really work in terms of organizing our objectives. I would instead come at it from a more specific angle. ex.
How to get more interest for people to try VIP for the first time? Give them trial access (a week for example) to the items that won't directly impact to the economy. Giving them a key to those fake lockboxes you use to teach new players how to use a lockbox instead of the real lockbox keys, signage etc. to lore them in on the QoL advantages of VIP. Perhaps gate it behind a certain lvl of progression in the game (add it to the box of goodies for starting undermountain?). If you've had VIP, you know that being without it becomes pretty painful, ask anyone who goes on preview.
How to get people who have had VIP in the past to reactivate it (the ones still engaged in the game)? I find this scenario hard to believe, but if anything the reason to not have VIP once you've had it, is if you believe the rewards are not so good. i.e improve the awards and/or bundle VIP purchases with other zen market items like we did in the past (there's a reason my VIP status will far outlive this game).
People who have and keep VIP don't need attention since they don't resolve any problem that I can visualize. You already have them as a customer.
People who had VIP and stopped playing the game? that's not a VIP problem, although if they don't even bother to log in and gather keys that would show a bigger frustration with the game than someone simply not playing. That says they don't see a scenario where those keys will have value in the future... ever.
I would cryptic would want to focus on 1 or 2 above.
The big warning I would make is any nerf (perceived or real) will not go over well. I wouldn't change the number of keys. Even if you want to reduce the rewards, I'd reduce it in the background (nerf lockboxes). Whatever change you make has to be perceived as positive.
NO NEW STORES. There is a dragon in PE, near Neverember who trades dragon scales and hasn't been updated since module 4. Stronghold vendors have been largely untouched since module 7. I would like to callout that the seal vendors were updated for module 18 which typically never has been done before the module release so you guys did a good job there. The wondrous bazaar is a disaster since almost all items are cheaper on the AH. Trade Bar merchant is mostly useless since they nerfed its reward options. Great Hall furniture has 0 value and is in all these places which was a waste of dev time. We don't need new stores, we need you to narrow down these things to a point that you have the resources to maintain them each module. There is no room in the game for new stores, so please don't even consider it as you will only be rewarded with complaints next module when it becomes obsolete.
Anyhow I will write up some ideas later, but I want to continue to stress we really could use more direction in defining the objectives in this exercise. And as @skatopsixos7 noted, we need a roadmap asap. I'm already getting messages from guildies who are leaving because they are not happy with mod 18 and hearing that there will be no new module until the end of the year. People need hope, as it currently sits all we know is the module system. Your vision of chapters in bi-monthly release cycles needs be explained in clear table to provide people with a reason to not take a break until module 19 comes out.
The current direction as laid out is exactly what the first phase of this CDP needs to be. The questions are there. There is an 'example'. I would prefer it if we can stay on topic please. The road-map will be shared once we have had the time to work out how to execute on it (Development, deployment, tech etc). Releasing a road-map out of the blue without discussion with the community about the overarching strategy would not be in the spirit of transparency nor collaboration. In the same way that updating VIP without an open discussion would not be in the spirit of the CDP.
Thanks for your comments regarding the topic. They are insightful.
Thanks
Chris
There is no hyperbole, the poster is thinking broadly (which is exactly right for this stage of the CDP), Franklin has taken the time to read previous post and there is no emotion.
I would appreciate it if we can get back to the topic at hand for which we have had many great posts already.
Thanks
Chris
The idea was that after several hours of playing, it was good to encourage players to take a break. But people hated this, and said that they felt 'punished for playing'.
After seeing the feedback, they turned the concept on its head and instead decided to give a "Bonus to experience" that recharged while you were offline and ended roughly around the time the old experience penalty would kick in.
People found this much more agreeable and was implemented. Any World of Warcraft players here might be able to say if it is still currently in the game.
The numbers between the two systems were exactly the same, and yet all it took was a shift in perspective to leave players far happier with the system.
It is not about who "is stupid", but just a simple matter of perspective. There simply will not be the same amount of backlash between telling players that "They are getting half as many keys as they used to", and telling them that "There will be a new line of lockboxes with improved drops that require two keys but will not stop them from continuing to use the older lockboxes as they have up until now".
You are telling me that some people would not like it? You can be giving away free candy and still some people will not be happy about the fact.
If the Developers want to make Lockbox keys more "Especial" they are bound to ruffle some feathers, no matter the approach.
Long ago there was a man, who kept many monkeys. Everybody called him Mr. Monkey. He knew the monkeys' temperament very well, and the monkeys could also understand what he said. Mr. Monkey's monkeys are different from the other monkeys. They didn't like to eat bananas or peanuts. They liked to eat a special kind of fruits instead. Everyday they ate a lot of this fruit, which was very expensive. Mr. Monkey didn't have enough money to buy that many for the monkeys. He intended to give them less, but was afraid that the monkeys would get mad at him. So he thought of an idea.
One morning, Mr. Monkey said to the monkeys: "From now on, I will give you three fruits in the morning and four in the evening. How is that?" Hearing this, the monkeys all said no, feeling he was giving too little. Upon this, Mr. Monkey smiled and said: "All right, I'll give you four in the morning, and three in the evening. Is it ok now?" All the monkeys were very happy to hear that and said ok. The idiom "Three in the morning and four in the evening" came from this story. However, the idiom carries a special meaning now： a person acts like this now, but acts like that later, very changeable.
But, we are not monkeys.
I don't need a full roadmap, i need something I can easily direct disenchanted players to that gives them confidence that playing through February is worth their time. Words like 1-2 mods a year and mod 19 not until the end of the year is terrifying players. I'm not questioning your vision, I am pointing out that I have players (I should be clear that I am a guild leader of a guild with 120+ active players and have been watching their friends leave in droves over the past 12 months) that have legitimate concern that this means that there will be 0 new content between now and the end of 2020. What I need from you is something I can direct them to that gives them hope. Sooner the better as once they take their "break" from the game it becomes infinitely more challenging them to abandoned their new social environment to return to mine.
I'm sure you can see that getting them back is more and more difficult based on how mild the upswing in activity has been in the wake of module 18 release compared to past mods.
our trust, our morale is at a pretty low point for this game and we've had some serious lows. the examples in the op, read like: "this is what we're doing, lets talk about it and make it seem like you have some input..... but no matter what you say this is what is happening." and that's further highlighted by the fact that the lockbox thing was testing different drop rates. it looks very much like you're planning on dropping this on us and were in fact testing the waters for how angry we'd be.
because this has happened before. usually they pose it in a way where it can be dialed back just a little bit so it feels like we've had some kind of "win" when we're still hamstered. And not only was this an emotionally laden topic for the player base but we were prepared for something else. so it feels like a low blow. The feedback you've seen from a few of us on the wording in the op is real. it isn't phrased in a way where any kind of structured feedback makes sense. it appears to be a proposal, not an open ended quest for ideas. it's do you want a b or c.
a way to get most of us on the more open minded side of the equation is
how do you see vip going forward. GO!
not, so what do you think of having less keys and a oh boy 3x chance at things in lockboxes (like we don't know the odds already.) and nerf this and nerf that and how about some nerfball soup too?