1. Upgrade Vendor: Here you could trade in rings to upgrade to better versions (5 +4 rings would get you a +5, 5 Epic ToMM rings would get you a Legendary). Rings would be BtA upon upgrade.
2. Trade-in Vendor: Here you could trade in companion equipment for a piece of your choice with the same IL.
3. Starting Rank 8: 5% Campaign Currency Reduction. (Increases 5% per rank, max 25%)
4. Starting Rank 8: 5% More Seals (Increases 5% per rank, max 25%)
Honestly there is ZERO chance I trust you. What independent third party is going to verify that you actually increased the odds? And who is going to stop you from decreasing them later even if you did increase them.
IMHO over the years you have pulled so many bait and switches and told players "this thing is better for you" when it's actually worse there is zero trust when it comes to this type of issue. This whole idea reminds me of the removal of wards from the trade bar store which you would only be further devaluing with this.
Look at increasing the exchange limit, that was supposed to be better for the players and fix the exchange but predictably within seconds of the server coming on line the minimum was increased to 750. Literally, all it did was decrease the value of the players time.
I don't think there is anyway your going to pass this off without serious backlash from the players.
If you want to increase the odds of the loot box, fine. But do it at your own expense not the players, consider it returning something after the exchange increase.
Agreeing with x10110100. Zero trust. These are measures to address the coming changes regarding lockboxes and gambling in games. Any suggestions I make don't matter and any changes made to VIP/lockboxes/AH will not be for the benefit of the players. Spin is what this is.
Wow, you made me log in for the 1st time in years just to respond. I never care about changes in a MMO, is natural, however this proposal really made me angry. So many things to work in the game and are we wasting time on VIP and lockboxes increase chance? Come on. Do not increase lockbox changes with the cost of VIP keys, it is a bad way of trying to make us waste more money. Do not put another currency in the game, this game overflow with dozens of different currencies, is not player friendly and just stupid. Do not make VIP p2w, the subscription should be only a quality of life improvement. I hate the fact VIP has an HP increase. Do not touch ranks and make vip12 to get a massive discount in new mod packs.
Please focus on the important matters improving content and rewards, don't waste time and resources in lockboxes increases and VIP changes and avoid stupid mistakes that make people wanting to leave the game like this leg mount issue. For every 1 that got 1 mount, 10 others are angry about that.
I m really disappointed with this direction of things, my expectations were high but now they drop for levels prior Chris entry.
Increase the drop rate, but don't decrease the keys. Our chances are so low already. Not that you'll actually tell us our actual chances anyway.
Get rid of VIP ranks. Most people with VIP are already rank 12, if they aren't, they either won't buy again, or will, and will get to 12 eventually anyway. Once you have a rank, you don't lose it.
Changing loadouts away from campfires. YES!!! but not during combat. I main a cleric, and I approve! (And my DPS friends who have to change from single target to multi target would agree)
VIP currency - must be account bound and can be put shared bank. Hmmm. I'm not against it. But again, don't decrease keys.
I'm sure I have more to add, but I'm on my phone, not my PC, so I'll come back to this later.
Vip currency sounds good if its a no BTC but BTA We want more keys from vip 2 or 3 per day would be cool +lockboxes packs back How about a health stone instead of potions, if not daily at least weekly Changing loadouts out of campfire is good idea What we have from vip like posting fee.....all those we would like to keep Update to AD store and Trade bar store every mod
• Feedback Overview: Yes VIP should be updated but not at the cost of losing what current VIP members have paid for over the years and earned IE: Rank 12s
• Feedback Goal: Prevent losing players from changing to much or making changes in the wrong directs for VIP rewards
• Feedback Functionality: I am hoping that the advice and feedback I give will help you understand and upgrade the “quality” of game life and game-play for your current and future players
• Risks & Concerns: I hope in the end we all can come to similar conclusions and be able to work together to solve and or help them find ways to make this better for all of us without too much “blood” shed
The rate of free keys
• If you reduce the amount of keys VIP gets or put them in a store you will more than likely lose a lot of people buying it. It doesn’t matter if you increase the rate of drops from boxes. • You should also consider, really consider what your putting in these lock-boxes. At this point in game rank 8s are nothing but RP and this current lock-box I am sorry but is a joke.
Current Benefits
• Signpost, mail, travel post, bonus hp, and injury immunity, no posting AH, Wondrous Bazaar reduced 25% are my most valued benefits
Auction House
• Honestly anyone looking to buy items are looking for the best cost. So, everyone posts a price lower than the next. Yes, it sucks when you get major undercut, but it happens. So, preventing people to withdraw their items may suck we do have the option of 5,3, and 1 day. So, we would need to reconsider our time frame if you prevented us from doing as we have been.
VIP Example that you provided I had something to say about.
• If you want to change the re-roll tokens, then give more • The keys, again they are great, but the boxes have been lacking a lot and only having one key a day really isn’t making a difference so if you want to change that to perhaps wards or stones great. • Changing the drop rate of boxes is very tricky so I am unsure if this should be a thing • Higher AD cap percentage would love this, make it very nice for those that pay for VIP • Ability for VIP to change load-outs away from campfires would replace moonstone mask teleport • Additional HP of course that is a good thing along with the injury immunity we have already, invocation, mailbox, signpost, discounts etc • Removal of VIP ranks would be foolish very foolish
Side-not: I do like that you are trying to find ways to improve things and bring in new people but you as I am sure you know, need to keep in mind your veterans players when making changes. I assume this is why you are asking the opinions of what we think and how it will affect us. But I would highly recommend not changing the Rank system of VIP.
Im not really for or against removing VIP ranks, However I am really struggling to understand why so many people are against it.
Why? if you currently have VIP rank 12, you dont lose anything. it makes ZERO difference to you at all. Where as a new fresh faced player comes along and is thinking about spending some money on the game, and looks at VIP. VIP rank 1 is lets face it, not very enticing at all, you get diddly squat but it still costs 10 bucks, If that same 10 bucks for a new player gives all the perks up front, that is a MUCH bigger incentive for new players to hand over the cash.
This whole mentality of "i had to do it the long way, so everyone else has to aswell, or i want a refund" just comes across as petty and bitter.
That being said, i do agree that VIP while it could do with an overhaul, it really should be waaaaay down the priority list, There are definately much more pressing aspects of the game that need attention more
Feedback Overview: Improve VIP so that it is more useful for players throughout their entire life as a citizen of Neverwinter, but do not take anything away from what you've already sold. Show additional rewards are available for continuous VIP ownership over time, with those being ranked as well.
Feedback Goal: Encourage models that incentivize loyal customers and make them feel appreciated over time, rather than just involve them in single transaction models or devalue their time/money sink.
Feedback Functionality: You would need a way to track continuous VIP membership that linked to access to perks. I have zero knowledge of what is required to do that on your end, but imagine that it basically exists within your capacity now.
Risks & Concerns: Some people will want all the perks without investing time, and may be upset that they can't purchase *every* benefit in the game and must wait for them. Folks that have breaks in VIP membership may want to argue with customer service about how their break in membership shouldn't count.
Example of what ranked loyalty over time bonuses might look like: VIP remains as it is, ranks and all. No new currencies and no auction house changes. Current rewards are polished (such as trade bar purchases). Folks that buy VIP get additional perks added to their rank of VIP for each month (or whatever time period) that they remain a continuous VIP member. These are minor perks like getting a discount on changing equipment appearances, removing enchants, or purchasing workshop supplies. Lower rank VIP perks over time are best for newer players, while higher rank VIP perks over time are better for veterans. At VIP 12, in addition to all the loyalty perks of the lower levels you'd receive slightly better odds on lockboxes and have those odds increase every month a very small amount. The odds (without perk) should be clearly listed, and then the odds should increase over time at a slight rate over time of unbroken VIP membership. That rate of change should also be transparent.
(I'm confused by the feedback format as explained in first post. I can see it's value when a new idea, outside the scope of the thread is being offered. However, when brainstorming on a given set of points, it just feels like bureaucratic overhead.)
My SWOT analysis on VIP:
Strengths: VIP program is an approximation of subscription model. Implemented correctly, subscription model provides both smoother/more predictable revenue and increased player retention. From my perspective as a long-time player, VIP in Neverwinter is a functioning, generally successful program.
Weaknesses: Players have spent real money on VIP. Their expectation of value provided for their purchase is much stronger than with typical in-game systems. Any substantial reductions to perceived VIP value is almost guaranteed to anger affected player, unless a full refund is offered as a choice. Effectively, VIP program has immense inertia due to it's buildup among long-time players (sometimes years of pre-purchased VIP).
Opportunities: New players do not immediately understand the value of VIP. There are also players (both new and long-time) who are dismayed by the cost/benefit ratio of VIP program. Adjusting/increasing the VIP offerings to better appease the players without VIP (while keeping the perceived value for existing VIP holders) would increase player conversion. Some of the ideas (moving VIP benefits to lower ranks or removing the ranks entirely, VIP currency for choosing your own VIP rewards) seem both effective and relatively easy to implement.
The other unexplored opportunity would be to open VIP up for gifting (similarly to Twitch sub gifting).
Threats: Game developers have acquired notable "goodwill debt" among their player base. Players view any changes with distrust. Transparency of the development process is absolutely the right choice to turn this around, but it will take a long time to get out of "debt". Meanwhile, extra care should be taken to avoid any unnecessary negative impacts on existing player base.
Finally, I want to comment on Auction House listing fee. I feel very strongly that this fee should not exist at all. It is totally unnecessary (the 10% sales tax already counterbalances arbitrage) and mostly hurts the players with least purchasing power. Get rid of it ASAP, literally no-one will be sorry to see it go. Anyone who says otherwise is trolling hard.
My still 378 day vip i ve since 4+years the think let me love vip is
++++++Not pay ah tax++++++ this is lovely with a broken economy yu know if i pay 10% every time how many ad ive lost in 4 year is crazy how many time i ve to sell laque 1by 1 supercutted because ppl dsnt buy and i see 30/40 come back to me after 5 day so dsnt change vip ah tax pls will be bad ppl with vip will stop to sell a lot think for dant lost money.if this will be applied prob is my goodbye to the game.
Adding currency and vip store will be cool but i will not touch the daily key i was on twitch and ppl asked yu about give more not less remember??? Yu still have to give an overage value 30-50k day if yu remove some key .
.....4 the daily key...... a choice what yu want today a key or currency for buy in a vip store? This will be cool choice between rewards maybe not forever but for a some months transition in wait yu set up store and yu are sure we enjoy the remove key idea or not yu cant just remove some key yu need to be gentle let us try yur store and we see.this change not let me say goodbye lol just ah tax
The rate of free keys I think the value of VIP is in a pretty good spot. However, higher drop rates (on e.g. the legendary mount) does not necessarily mean that you get 2x/3x the value out of the same lockboxes. Depends pretty much about how the drop rates are handled - but even with 15 keys VIP would still worth be it... But that's because the additional perks are so important.
Alternates to keys Choice is good so I like that. One thing however - the reroll tokens are now per character. If you make this part of the currency with which you also get the enchanted keys - you would get a lot less of those reroll tokens all of a sudden. I think there still should be a per character reward. Making the per character reward the same currency however would be broken for the people (like me) that have 50+ characters on their account, unless you have 2 currencies (like we don't have enough currencies yet):
Example:
Per account currency
Enchanted Keys
Enchanting stones
Wards
Per character currency
Reroll tokens
Retraining tokens
Gold?
Ranks Not sure it would be well received to remove all ranks - so I advise against that. What you should do however is move the travel post to VIP level 1, that would make VIP directly much more valuable. Also, instead of removing ranks I would actually add ranks with some new perks ideas that I will list later on.
VIP Benefits I'm not sure why this is an important listing here - are you thinking about removing perks? Anyway, important VIP perks for me:
Travel signpost
Bank summon
Mail summon
Enchanted keys
Reroll tokens
Invoke anywhere
Injury Immunity (although I feel injuries should be removed from the game altogether)
Regarding the current benefits: 10% bonus xp/glory does not work (at least it does not show on the character sheet) ever since m16 has come out.
New Benefits
Interact with a campfire to travel to any other unlocked (seen by walking) campfire on the map
Swap loadout anywhere sounds great
Greater AD refine cap could be a thing, maybe scale with VIP rank
Guild bank anywhere
SH coffer anywhere
Reduced morale costs to rush professions
Reduced gold costs for professions?
No morale cost to remotely pick up things from the profession bag
More buy/sell slots in auction house (new version - see below)
Additional discount in zen market (like the wondrous bazaar discount, but not 25% of course )
Given time I could come up with more perks - add them at ranks you feel fit.
Auction House The auction house could use a rework. It is tedious to work with and often returns errors when overloaded. I propose a rework of the auction house!
Instead of people having free reign on pricing - let the game find a price based on supply/demand. A bit like the ZAX but better. Players can then sell an item or a stack of items for that price +-10 or 20%. The auction house will automatically sell singular items from a stack if applicable. All sales have a tax of 10% like now. I would not add a posting fee.
Players have a fixed amount of slots for buying and/or selling (maybe seperate those?).
But Rainer, what if I want to give away AD in a giveaway? Well I propose to also just make a simple donate AD option somewhere in the game with a maximum of 1 million AD per day per account (numbers can be played with). This way we don't have to sell a potion of health for 1million to help someone out, and the limit is low enough to counter gold sellers. Maybe even link this as a VIP perk to further combat RWT.
I actually had to walk away from the computer for a little while before responding. I was that angry. I have posted about VIP several times both here and on both of the reddits. VIP is a shadow of what it once was when I first PAID for it up to rank 12. I even had over a year paid in advance for quite some time. I stopped paying for it in MOD 16. I complained about every nerf to VIP over the years, and there have been several. (MANY UNDOCUMENTED) Your own website has not been updated with new VIP information for YEARS. Funny thing, are there even traps to avoid in any of the current MODS that VIP immunity actually works on?I don't remember any. I know I take damage from every single trap in ME, WE and FE VIP or not. How about returning the VIP perks that were taken away or nerfed before you talk about taking away even more!
Feedback Overview
VIP should be updated, but not at the expense of those of us who have supported you for YEARS. Think very hard before you take anything away or devalue any part of the current VIP program or ANYTHING in game for that matter. The mere fact that you used taking away keys and devaluing the VIP program in your examples shows that you are severely out of touch. You know that the writing is on the wall for Lockboxes in video games.Get out ahead of what is coming and post your odds. We rely on Rainer to give us any insight into odds and drop rates. We also all know just how easily the odds can be manipulated. The current Lockbox DRAMA only reinforces that fact. (Seriously it was freaking reported with video a full week before launch on the preview forums! SMH!)
Feedback Goal
Discuss reasonable options to improve VIP without devaluing it, while admittedly venting a little anger.
Feedback Functionality
VIP was at one time one of the very few things in this game that was actually worth buying with real money. Sadly it has languished over the years and has been bashed with the nerf bat like several other parts of the game. It was my way to show support for the developers while also getting several QOL improvements and increasing the amount of AD I could earn.
Over the years almost all of the AD earning perks were removed from VIP. Salvage was removed from the game. Trade bars were devalued. The trade bar store fell into a state of uselessness, and unavoidable injuries started appearing from new sources that were not covered by VIP. The Professions trader became useless, the "New" Seal trader didn't even have the new seals and probably still doesn't, I have not looked. Basically the only use for VIP was for the FREE (Funny that I think I paid for them.) keys, teleport sign, bank, discounts and reroll tokens. Lockboxes are a shadow of their former selves also so unless you open the "old" lockboxes VIP doesn't even pay for itself anymore. VIP was one of the few things I would tell every new player I helped to buy with cash until they could pay for it through the ZAX.
So where is the value? Keys (Chance for a leg mount or good prize), Discounts, QOL perks and reroll tokens. I'm sure there will be several good suggestions in this thread that could be added. Please do not take anything else away. We have lost enough already. Fix the game, build some trust and then ask for money. I am sure many of us would gladly just donate. I did when I played POE, and so did hundreds if not thousands of others. Do you know why we just gave them money? Trust, communication, community engagement, good content.... You get the point.
We do not need yet another store and even more currency. We have the trade bar store and we earn trade bars with our keys. Update the trade bar store! Stop nerfing companions buff them and make them more unique, add useful gear, and put anything else you were thinking about adding to this "new" store in there. You could even add Coal wards back! (I know that is a reach. Sorry for the TRIGGER folks.) If you need more ideas look no further than your own forums, there are dozens of great ideas that have been there for YEARS, not only for VIP but also for the Zen store items that people WANT to buy.
Instead of removing ranks add more and reduce the price for the earlier ranks.
30 keys = 30 days
Please don't mess with my reroll tokens!
You can have your health potions back. (Was that a joke?)
Risks & Concerns
If you decide to change the amount of keys or remove anything from the current VIP program I doubt I will ever spend money in this game again. Look at my account, and notice the trend. Cryptic has a major trust problem already, this company has a reputation for nerfs, bait and switch tactics and a perceived disdain for the customer. If there is any doubt about this read the threads on this forum. Making changes to something we have already PAID for without first repairing the broken state of the game, and poor community trust will do more harm than good.
As a side note: This topic for a CDP is the main reason I asked for a poll or some way to suggest topics. There are literally DOZENS of other topics that are IMO far more important and far more urgent. I actually had already prepared my ideas for the Rewards and Progression CDP. Please consider asking us what topics we think are urgent, I think it is important.
A ) Add a legendary mount pack to vip 12 and every 12 vip mounth (account bound) B ) Add more stuff to tradebar store, ward,character customization, hair, companion token, reroll race,.... old skin stuff (a lot) need more weapon skin MORE MORE MORE customization C ) vip 1 50% more campaign value D ) vip1 50% profession gold/heart discount
p.s. however the vip system is'nt bad now
little note off topic,
Dungeons feedback dungeon rewards aren't on line to the effort(scaling system), my only target on Dungeon->AD,(boring, it's like a work) need more shiny stuff,tatoo....
2
darthpotaterMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,261Arc User
Here is my feedback.
- VIP ranks doenst make sense for me. Only confuses new players and make coding more complex. You have the service or you dont. I dont get why players whould be angry against this.
- Decreasing the number of keys is a bad idea. You only will get angry players. IMHO giving keys and other things with vip was a bad idea since the start because VIP should be QoL oriented, but now is late to change this.
- Increasing Lockboxes odds: I dont care, but this shouldnt affect VIP. Lockboxes are in general bad since we only get mostly refinement. You wont sell to players an increase in odds in exchange for less keys. Wont work. Lockboxes should be totally changed but thats other topic. I think you should increase tarmalune bars, more later.
- Implementing another shop and currency is a Big NO. You already have tarmalune trade bars. You need to give more bars with lockboxes (or even direct bars with VIP) and add more items to the tradebar store. Items that we need daily, like preservation wards, companion tokens, and important: Reroll tokens. Actually you get only 3 per day per character, I think a player with VIP should be able to get 10 or 15 per acount per day or more. Also legendary keys should be more accesible to people with VIP as I understand (QoL -> if you are VIP you can open legendary chest without having to farm old currency for keys).
- Changing Loadouts everywhere. When loadouts were implemented I was disapointed that they only could be changed in campfires. Some dungeons doesnt have campfires where you need to change so this should be implemented no matter if you are VIP or not, but whatever.
- Increasing rough AD per day. I dont care, not much of a difference for me. I dont have internal numbers, but the economy of the game is already bad with lots of AD entering the game. If you give players the chance to get more AD with no efective AD sinks the economy will be worse.
- AH Fees. This is a controversial one. I have to say that I am a big AH user so this feature saves me millions of AH in fees. But I recognize this was a bad feature for the game health. I was surprised when they introduced VIP with this feature and instantly bought rank 12 the first day just for this.
I remember when you had fees and AH prizes were more realistic, and there were good opportunities to buy some deals because some people were afraid to not sell. If you dont have fees you post higher prizes with no risk, so in general AH prizes are higher. People wont accept this and you expose to a major flame but I think this feature is bad for the game in general. You need to compensate people if you are going to remove this. I suggest 1 free posting in AH per day.
Another idea that came to mind was to overhaul the tarmalune trade store to have some items that cost Tarmalune + AD to implement a new AD sink. But you need to put items that people wants a lot like preservation wards or companion tokens.
So recently the phenomenon of "undercutting" has been prevalent in the community. I was thinking if this could be a symptom of having a higher ratio of end game players to newcomers? If you look at the market, there are enough people selling the same items but much less buyers i.e. demand and hence people undercut.
As for your CDP topic, I feel as if you are asking the playerbase " would you like more choice"? A clear example of this is giving players the option to choose between keys and other items as part of their daily VIP rewards.
The ones I find really important are and why:
1) "Removal of VIP ranks meaning that anyone who purchases VIP gets full benefits immediately" - A welcoming change for newcomers. 2)A higher cap on refined AD per day for VIP, 15% more for a cap of 115,000 - I like the idea, gives the incentive to players to grind. 3)Ability for VIP to change loadouts away from campfires - Why was it limited to campfires in the first place? You have made this game way too restrictive. 4) Increased health gain from VIP – grants every member of your group 1% of their base HP as additional Max HP. Maximum 5% with a full group of VIP - Welcomed by End game players. 5) Bringing back listing fees on Auction House for VIP - This could backfire and for me it is clearly restricting our freedom. A big reason why undercutting even happens is when supply increases the demand and you took long enough to fix darkened to know this well.
My current most preferred benefit/s:
Travelling signpost and Mailbox!
2
tassedethe13Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 806Arc User
edited January 2020
So basically, you want to make a Zen Market for VIP ?
You want to know how I feel ? I just am speechless, wow.
First post on the forums, as I want to contribute to these important topics !
Let me start, by answering the asked questions :
*) The rate of free keys : Personally, I'm not hung up on the daily key. They are a nice gift, but are in effect a lottery ticket... I don't mind giving them and the chance to that one-in-a-million legendary item up alltogether in favour of something more low-key but consistent. (Because this is what VIP should be I think, a little help/nudge to do away with some of the free-to-play grinds.)
For me the lockbox and its odds should be separated from VIP. They are as I said lotterly tickets, be up front with odds, prizes and prices and let people decide if they want to play that game. Honestly I don't. So my answer : I don't care about the key, as long as it is replaced with something that adds comfort or lessens the grind.
*) Alternates to keys : I'm all for it. As you mentioned, this could be giving out VIP currency (trade bars) and a rework of the trade bar store and having items there that are actually in demand, like preservation wards. Items that are quality of life or lessen the grind, not pay to win rewards. BUT, please do away with the manual claiming on different characters. This is not what playing a game should be... When I see my guild/alliance members log on, there are first 2-50 log on/offs while they go claim/invoke things on every alt... This only creates frustration in my opinion. Add the rewards as you please, daily/monthly, to your account (with the balance accessible for everyone of your chars) and make the rewards BoA. (No monetizing your benefit, but you are completely free to use them where you want.) (Also there should be no difference if you have 50 characters or just one. so the reroll tokens as far as I'm concerned can go too. Or come at a cost : you get your reroll tokens, but that means that what you get will be BoA. Same thing as before, VIP should not be monetized !)
*) Ranks : I'm okay with removing the system of ranks. You could have some sort of loyalty program is you so like, on top of VIP. But the core of VIP should be the same for everybody and that should at least include those quality-of-life perks (sign post, mail box, (seal) vendor, bank portal...) I'm not too sure about injuries, I'm an oldskool player, so I don't mind injuries... but the current system is weird.. VIP just springs all the traps without a care and the newbie behind is handicapped into the ground. So either take out injuries alltogether, or leave them in but for everybody... adding value to trapdisarming classes and injury-healing classes. (This is actually a very difficult one, players often dislike these systems, same as they do loss of control over their character (crowd control)... )
What do I value about VIP benefits ? Just that : Quality-of-life : Travel signpost/bank portal/mailbox/vendor. Besides that, it is mainly the AH posting fee. Again as with the injuries, this should not be part of VIP, again it is monetizing... I will argue that it should even not exist at all. I understand the need for an AD/Zen drain, but do it on the sale only rather than on the listing. You now have a perverse system where the rich and or those with VIP can just relist without a care, while the others often can't even list a high-value item... because the risk of not selling and losing the posting fee is just such a big hit. So in short, either do away with the posting fee completely (or if that is really needed for the AD/Zen drain, make it reasonable and fixed, independant of the item list price), or add it to the sales fee when you actually sell an item.
*) Auction House : See above.
*) VIP Example
- VIP Currency : See above. All for it, but with the remarks I made. - 10-15 Lockbox Keys per month : For my part do away with keys, but I do understand that for a lot of players those are the things they want. So as a compromise, put them in the VIP currency store, and make sure people can get the same worth out of their keys if they want to buy them, or if not, that they can choose another item from the store. - Increased odd chances on items in Lockboxes moving forward. : I don't really have an opinion other than be upfront with the lockboxes : price/prizes/chance at winning should be displayed in the tooltip plain for everyone to see. - Instead of directly getting reroll tokens, VIP would be given a VIP currency and would have a store. The contents of this store would adjust over time but would likely start with things such as Preservation Wards, Enchanting Stones, Companion Upgrade Tokens, and yes Reroll Tokens. : All for it, but with the remarks I made. - A higher cap on refined AD per day for VIP, 15% more for a cap of 115,000 : As the game stands, and the current endless grind, that sounds very nice... but again VIP should not be monetized I think. So I'd love it really, but on the other hand I don't think it is a good thing. (What I'd rather see e.g. is VIP gets auto-refind for AD => This is again quality-of-life, non-vips can get the same, but they need to put in more effort.)
- Ability for VIP to change loadouts away from campfires : YES ! Playing a healer I feel this pain daily... While trying to make a group and being wanted as a healer, I effectively have to just idle in my healer-loadout... which is very annoying. (Or keep playing and trying to heal mobs to death.... ) I do get this might have more repercussions than I can judge, people abusing and switching back and forth.. really I don't know... but at this point I can't play the game the way I like to. (Maybe keep players from switching inside public dungeons/queues.. to avoid queue role scams etc.. But private you can do whatever you like.)
- Increased health gain from VIP : Don't care for it, not quality-of-life... but an edge over other players. Shouldn't exist. If you truly are free to play, this should not be necessary or even desirable.
- Removal of VIP ranks meaning that anyone who purchases VIP gets full benefits immediately. : All for it. (You could have some sort of loyalty program on top to add to retention... But I'm not sure what this would look like.. A voucher for store discount ? A cosmetic item, title, ... ?)
*) Overall feedback : For me something is flawed in the way character power is built up... The fact that (augment) companions, and as a result runestones, represent so much of a characters power feels very wrong to me. Actually I don't feel like I'm making my character stronger, I think at this point my polar bear would best me in combat I know this is not a direct comment on VIP, but it all ties in together I feel. At a certain point, you log in (daily or not) to do a grind... foregoing playing/doing (fun) things (like dungeon runs with friends), for grinding boons/AD/reputation/currencies. At some point you realise this, step out of the hamster wheel and the game lost a player. I know having a grind is an integral part of an MMO and very much needed, but they way you make that grind makes all the difference.... It should be fun and make you feel like you are getting somewhere. (Perfect example is SKT... does any player even enjoy that ? The campaign starts of so well, good story, nice quests... but then you realize the grind you are facing, and the fun goes down the drain and becomes a chore...) Make me play a (fun and well designed) dungeon over and over, give me things to chase by all means... but first and foremost this is a game... make it fun and rewarding to do so !
Sorry for the wall-of-text, but in the end I do think this is/could be a great game (with great storytelling) and great potential and I would love to see it go in the right direction.
The rate of free keys ... should stay the same, just add a counter to opening lockboxes with them like it's with refining, after xy keys used an bound to account reward from the top bracket is granted. That wouldn't affect those lucky ducks that allways get a legendary drop after spending 3 keys, but everyone else would at least have something to look forward to at some point.
Alternates to keys ... again, hands of those daily lockbox keys! Do whatever you like to those bloody Reroll Tokens, but keys should remain off limit regarding any changes to ViP!
Ranks ... why is there no notion of actually increasing those ranks?! I mean, we're stuck on Rank 12 for YEARS now!
Current Benefits ... i value the daily keys above anything else, and the rest is nice to have.
New Benefits ... should go with NEW ViP RANKS!
Auction House ... what the AH really needs are updated sections and search options. For example, a category (Fighter, Mystical, Invoker and so on) filter option in the companion department. Not to mention a fix for the issue when we have to relist an item over and over again before it's actually in the AH.
VIP Example ... add a ViP Trader to Protectors Enclave, where we can exchange Reroll Tokens for Preservation Wards, Enchanting Stones, Companion Upgrade Tokens and so on.
... +1% more Tarmalune Trade Bars from lockboxes per ViP Rank.
... +x% more raw AD from dungeon/skirmish runs per ViP Rank.
... +y% more Seals from dungeon/skirmish runs per ViP Rank.
... +z% more campaign currencies from weekly quests per ViP Rank.
The redesign of the lockboxes allready did a pretty good job on decreasing the value of ViP, add most of the examples listed in the opening post to that and ViP would become worthless to a good portion of players.
The droprate and keys I have the idea that, in general, the droprate should be increased. Legendary mount, for example, is around 0.15% and it's a too little chance. Increasing it at around 1% should be more honest. On the other hand 1 key per day, per account, is fair and with the "correction" of the droprate I don't think it's needed to decrease the amount per month, but could be nice to have an increasing of number of keys per day depending on VIP rank (for example each 8 VIP rank for a maximum of 2 keys per day, with also and increase in number of VIP ranks up to rank 16 - read below).
Alternatives rewards Here, a different value from heals potions could be interesting. Maybe a currency with a dedicated shop where to spend this currency for Marks of Potency, Stones of Health, Enchanting Stones, Companion Upgrading tokens, Wards (and in general worth stuff in game) can be really, really nice to have.
Ranks Ranks are good. The idea of giving same benefits should be limited in things such as travelling portal, bank, etc. While other benefits like WB discounts, bonus stats, etc are good for different ranks. It's possible to add more ranks with more rewards (maybe up to rank 16 to put some more rewards).
VIP Benefits Travelling, bank, vendor could be up from any rank, while other stuff depending on rank.
New Benefits New currency instead of potions of health with a dedicated store.
Auction House - No fees in posting/removing things, - A better search engine, - Decreasing in fees (when selling a thing) depending on the VIP rank, - Maximum % of decreasing or increasing prices depending on the cheapest or most expensive one, to better controll big oscillation of the market (maybe can help?).
I'll think other option in the meantime and upgrade the comment later.
VIP overhaul: 1) Keys - reduced rate would be acceptable if a commensurate bump in rewards was attached to it. Not only an increase in rate, but an improved range of rewards. Stop giving outdated artifacts and start giving rewards of value between stones and leg mounts 2) I do like the store idea - I have more reroll tokens than I am likley to ever use. How about adding a Character to Account unbind token? Or even an Unbind token (acceptable for it to be expensive - like 3 months worth of daily VIP claims...) 3) Reroll tokens - how about adding more uses for reroll tokens (hunts, zok boxes, lockboxes). Or even a premium reroll token that can be bought with regular reroll tokens (maybe 9 regular = 1 premium), or with new VIP currency 3) VIP ranks - Since some of the purchases that used to include free ranks no longer do, buying VIP for an extended play pretty much provides ranks anyway, so don't have a real issue with that 4) VIP Current benefits listed in order of usage: 1) Signpost. 2) Seal vendor (as much to sell to as to spend seals - put a merchant in my workshop and that would be curbed significantly - that would be a nice VIP feature) 3) Mailbox 4) Banking Portal. Rarely use professional vendor (though could use instead of seal trader - seal trader is kind of 2 birds with 1 stone option as I can check some of my seals and sell stuff in one place. Almost never use Moonstone Mask - replace that with a teleport to stronghold. Other VIP benefits that would be nice - higher RAD refine cap, HP idea is OK - but a bigger bump for solo play would be nice), Professions bank in the workshop to allow crafting goods to be transferred between characters without all the steps involved with mailing them 5) Auction House - not sure of the answer here. I don't want to give up my 0% listing fee - and I am not a power seller. What about just adding a de-listing fee, or a re-listing within 24 hours fee (or escalating fee for multiple re-posts)? Not sure anything would get rid of undercutting as its not just power sellers that undercut
2
kreatyveMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 10,545Community Moderator
My initial thoughts so far:
1. I think that making the keys not be a daily thing, even with increased lockbox odds, would still feel more like something is being taken, than something being given, and would anger a large part of the player base. There would be a massive amount of angry players posting on all the social media. It would be another "coal gate" situation, or potentially even worse. I would rather not go through that again, please. 2. I like the idea of not having the VIP ranks anymore. And, I wonder, if you were to remove the ranks, if maybe there could be limited sales of "Lifetime VIP" made available? I don't know if those make money for games or not, so I would guess, look at the numbers from STO's and see? I do understand that it's a business, and ya'll do need to make money to keep the game going. 3. The AH fees... most games have AH fees for a reason, as a gold sink. Removing these completely for a large portion of the player base feels like it has caused more harm than good. I would be ok with this being replaced by something else, though I feel a lot of veteran players would be upset by this, the majority of the player base would understand as long as the reasoning was communicated efficiently.
That's all my opinion on the proposed changes for now.
My opinions are my own. I do not work for PWE or Cryptic. - Forum Rules - Protector's Enclave Discord - I play on Xbox Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official. Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
> @kreatyve said: > My initial thoughts so far: > > 1. I think that making the keys not be a daily thing, even with increased lockbox odds, would still feel more like something is being taken, than something being given, and would anger a large part of the player base. There would be a massive amount of angry players posting on all the social media. It would be another "coal gate" situation, or potentially even worse. I would rather not go through that again, please. > 2. I like the idea of not having the VIP ranks anymore. And, I wonder, if you were to remove the ranks, if maybe there could be limited sales of "Lifetime VIP" made available? I don't know if those make money for games or not, so I would guess, look at the numbers from STO's and see? I do understand that it's a business, and ya'll do need to make money to keep the game going. > 3. The AH fees... most games have AH fees for a reason, as a gold sink. Removing these completely for a large portion of the player base feels like it has caused more harm than good. I would be ok with this being replaced by something else, though I feel a lot of veteran players would be upset by this, the majority of the player base would understand as long as the reasoning was communicated efficiently. > > That's all my opinion on the proposed changes for now.
Sry if i quote yu but sometime we have item rank15 or mount leg not bis we spend to mutch es for pushing up a enc and we never bring back value if we cant able to put in ah lot time until we get the right price...maybe for some item we need no tax
I am so disappointed. Please read this thread, read @oremonger#9999 s feedback, then read it again, and contemplate really really hard, brainstorm in team if you must, if this is the correct path.
You get an A for wording it nicely, tho. This is the tone my former boss used to ask me if I can stay longer for every day the next month long.
> 1. I think that making the keys not be a daily thing, even with increased lockbox odds, would still feel more like something is being taken, than something being given, and would anger a large part of the player base. There would be a massive amount of angry players posting on all the social media. It would be another "coal gate" situation, or potentially even worse. I would rather not go through that again, please.
> 2. I like the idea of not having the VIP ranks anymore. And, I wonder, if you were to remove the ranks, if maybe there could be limited sales of "Lifetime VIP" made available? I don't know if those make money for games or not, so I would guess, look at the numbers from STO's and see? I do understand that it's a business, and ya'll do need to make money to keep the game going.
> 3. The AH fees... most games have AH fees for a reason, as a gold sink. Removing these completely for a large portion of the player base feels like it has caused more harm than good. I would be ok with this being replaced by something else, though I feel a lot of veteran players would be upset by this, the majority of the player base would understand as long as the reasoning was communicated efficiently.
>
> That's all my opinion on the proposed changes for now.
Sry if i quote yu but sometime we have item rank15 or mount leg not bis we spend to mutch es for pushing up a enc and we never bring back value if we cant able to put in ah lot time until we get the right price...maybe for some item we need no tax
having everyone pay this tax upfront would do more harm than good. this game has an established RICH player base already. this tax isn't going to hurt the rich but it will hurt the average and poor player. they will not be able to compete. Especially on the sales of items that could help them the most. it would be a ad sink yes, but there would be less posting and probably less sales thru the ah effectively lowering the amount of ad removed from the economy. trade channels would be come more active again. people would be disillusioned that they have to spend hours in chat going.. come to me come to me to get value for their items instead of playing the game. it would be a disaster.
as it is there is a tax on items being sold. a hefty one. it's good enough. for the last number of years most of the people in game have vip that I have played with. it's rare to have someone say please put down a bank or mail box. Most have it. the last time I remember that being a thing was in the first year after vip was introduced. the only people that do not have it are the newer or poorer players (although I have been witnessing it more recently. I think there are a contingent of old time players who are letting their vip run out and refusing to renew it due to dissatisfaction with the game). they (newer and poorer) do get taken advantage of because of this. I've seen them in pe trying to make deals with people selling items at half price once they raise the funds to list their item so they can afford to buy vip. tbh that really does Hamster... just getting rid of the posting fee is reasonable imo. it's a very valid way to get people to buy vip though. I'm also ok with them moving that particular perk down the ranks. I see the inequality that one invokes.
This particular tiger they've taken by the tail is an angry one with big teeth.. I'm really confused by the statement they're going to win back our trust, and then taking THIS on.. instead of the topic that we were all looking forward to and seeing as a positive move forward. Even broaching this with the examples put forth is just a huge trust beater. I'm at a lower morale point than I was a month and a half ago after reading this. honestly.. this is dynomite. tread carefully or the situation will explode in an angry leaving player base. some of us have a lot of laundry and dishes to do that look more and more attractive..
In the first phase of this CDP we would like you to think and comment about these questions:
The rate of free keys
We currently grant a key a day, which is 30 a month. We want to preserve the value of VIP, so if lockbox odds are improved by 2x or even 3x, how would you view altering the rate of free keys to keep a similar value?
With the amount of keys in the market, if we simply get an "Improved chances" lockbox, everything in it will be devalued to the point of inconsequence.
If you want to go this way, or ever want to add a Mythic tier reward like mythic mounts, probably the best way to go about it while keeping drops valuable would be to make a "Two locks lockbox", or something along those lines. Increase the number of keys required along with the improvement in rewards to not make all the older lockboxes outdated and the drops in the new one too common to have any value.
How would you feel about getting a currency with VIP that allowed you to get items other than keys from your daily login? Would you choose to get wards, enchanting stones, or other valuable items instead of keys if you had that option?
There will be significant backlash if you lower the amount of keys awarded by VIP. But if you make it so players can either get a daily key or choose from other rewards, that might help with your intent of lowering the amount of awarded keys in practice. Still, I don't think this would accomplish what you are aiming for.
Ranks How would you feel about the removal of ranks on VIP, granting full benefits of VIP 12 while active? What do you value about ranks?
The removal of ranks is a relatively good choice, after all adding additional ranks would make it look like a significant paywall. However it should be handled with care, as those that have already paid for more than 12 months of VIP for the sake of ranking it up would feel cheated out of their money and effort.
I doubt that many people like or value VIP ranks in a particular sense, they are little more than a paywall between players and benefits they might want, but just getting rid of them without any sort of compensation would not leave your current playerbase happy.
Current Benefits Which of the current benefits of VIP do you value and why?
Travelling signpost, Mailbox, Bank, these three might stab immersion in the face and then throw its gasping soon-to-be corpse in a lake of acid full of rabid acid-breathing piranhas, but they do make life much easier while adventuring.
The Bazaar discount is a nice addition that made ranking VIP up desirable to begin with past the aforementioned rewards. But this is not a quality of life matter, I don't see a problem with it being dropped from the table in a theoretical future iteration of VIP, as long as a reward of similar value is put in its place so dropping it doesn't just make the grind for upgrades steeper.
Auction House Having one group able to list an item, de-list, and re-list again at no cost/penalty to undercut is not healthy for the Auction House and we’d like that to be a better experience for everyone. What are your thoughts in regard to this statement?
The problem here is that some items are just /difficult/ to sell, it can take you days if not weeks to get them sold, and if you don't occasionally re-list them they will simply never sell. If you take steps to making re-listing no longer a viable option, the entire workings of the Auction House would need a serious rework so players aren't stuck just tossing their items in its general direction and praying for deliverance.
And just in case this needs to be clarified, that would be a very bad thing. A potentially your-decision-just-damned-this-game-to-bankruptcy kind of bad thing.
No need for seers or tarot reading to see that.
I can give a more detailed insight in two of these matters, but that'll be at another time.
The stars are falling, and the old gods silent as death, with the blood sworn to rip you down from the night sky, what cost will pose too high?
Keep this short and sweet. Vip is broken as it is 80% of these ideas would completely destroy it. As for keys make it like upgrades after a set amount of keys/tries make it a 100% drop. The set amount for a upgrade is one of the best things you have done for a long time in my opinion.
Being able to change loadouts away from a campfire would be crazy. All people would have to do is temporarily come out of combat and swap loadouts from aoe to single target and vice versa. I mean, you could even swap all your gear if you wanted which is hardly realistic.
Feedback Overview: Overall changes to VIP After reading through everyone's comments it is clear that making big changes (i.e. removing/changing existing benefits) would no sit well with people that have pre-paid VIP for months and years into the future. This problem is due to the fact that you sold rank plus time together...
Please don't take away existing benefits. People will value each benefit differently, but we all purchased VIP for a reason and making a change or removing will suck a lot.
Feedback Goal If you want to add your list of new benefits to the system, then we can (mostly) agree that (some of) your suggestions would be great additions. What I would suggest is to add more ranks to VIP (above 12) to fit in your additions. You can bundle some of them together, of course.
Consider reordering which benefits are accrued at each rank. However, you must ensure that if a player has an existing benefit at their current rank, that the are advanced in rank to still receive that benefit during your restructure.
Feedback Functionality Unbundle time from rank. If I am Rank 12 VIP with 24 months of time, and you restructure the system to have 16 ranks of VIP available, then I am advanced in Rank to match my current benefits (having access to all ranks rewards under my new rank). In my example let's say I get bumped to Rank 13... Now I am Rank 13/16 with 24 months and if I want the next level of reward, then I can purchase Rank 14, but still only have 24 months of time. In the future I can choose to buy more VIP time (or not) and you get the benefit of adding more ranks later on the other side of the model.
Feedback Overview Regarding lockbox percentage increases The percentage chance of getting the orange items we are all after is SO LOW that there is no real meaningful change that you would reasonably make (you wont increase our odds to 1/90).
Feedback Functionality What if you played into your dice rolling model a little more and included a 'Streak bonus' for VIP members. Could be anything rewarding free value to the results. Say, if we open 10 lockboxes and receive the same pack twice or three times in a row, we get increased odds at something, or a free key, or heavily increased odds of getting an orange result in our next open (say 2%).
Risks & Concerns Ultimately, any change to the lockbox odds will haev a heavy effect on the economy.
Comments
1. Upgrade Vendor: Here you could trade in rings to upgrade to better versions (5 +4 rings would get you a +5, 5 Epic ToMM rings would get you a Legendary). Rings would be BtA upon upgrade.
2. Trade-in Vendor: Here you could trade in companion equipment for a piece of your choice with the same IL.
3. Starting Rank 8: 5% Campaign Currency Reduction. (Increases 5% per rank, max 25%)
4. Starting Rank 8: 5% More Seals (Increases 5% per rank, max 25%)
5. 1 Daily Legendary Dragon Key (per character, BtC)
GWF: Vretzina
OP: Vee
DC: Evee
CW: nezterV
Leader - Valaraukari Ascension
Honestly there is ZERO chance I trust you. What independent third party is going to verify that you actually increased the odds? And who is going to stop you from decreasing them later even if you did increase them.
IMHO over the years you have pulled so many bait and switches and told players "this thing is better for you" when it's actually worse there is zero trust when it comes to this type of issue. This whole idea reminds me of the removal of wards from the trade bar store which you would only be further devaluing with this.
Look at increasing the exchange limit, that was supposed to be better for the players and fix the exchange but predictably within seconds of the server coming on line the minimum was increased to 750. Literally, all it did was decrease the value of the players time.
I don't think there is anyway your going to pass this off without serious backlash from the players.
If you want to increase the odds of the loot box, fine. But do it at your own expense not the players, consider it returning something after the exchange increase.
That is my brutally honest take.
So many things to work in the game and are we wasting time on VIP and lockboxes increase chance? Come on.
Do not increase lockbox changes with the cost of VIP keys, it is a bad way of trying to make us waste more money.
Do not put another currency in the game, this game overflow with dozens of different currencies, is not player friendly and just stupid.
Do not make VIP p2w, the subscription should be only a quality of life improvement. I hate the fact VIP has an HP increase.
Do not touch ranks and make vip12 to get a massive discount in new mod packs.
Please focus on the important matters improving content and rewards, don't waste time and resources in lockboxes increases and VIP changes and avoid stupid mistakes that make people wanting to leave the game like this leg mount issue. For every 1 that got 1 mount, 10 others are angry about that.
I m really disappointed with this direction of things, my expectations were high but now they drop for levels prior Chris entry.
Get rid of VIP ranks. Most people with VIP are already rank 12, if they aren't, they either won't buy again, or will, and will get to 12 eventually anyway. Once you have a rank, you don't lose it.
Changing loadouts away from campfires. YES!!! but not during combat. I main a cleric, and I approve! (And my DPS friends who have to change from single target to multi target would agree)
VIP currency - must be account bound and can be put shared bank. Hmmm. I'm not against it. But again, don't decrease keys.
I'm sure I have more to add, but I'm on my phone, not my PC, so I'll come back to this later.
Co-Guild Leader
Ghost Templars L20
Alliance: Tyrs Paladium
Main: Cleric (Heals|DPS)
Alt: Warlock
We want more keys from vip 2 or 3 per day would be cool +lockboxes packs back
How about a health stone instead of potions, if not daily at least weekly
Changing loadouts out of campfire is good idea
What we have from vip like posting fee.....all those we would like to keep
Update to AD store and Trade bar store every mod
the years and earned IE: Rank 12s
• Feedback Goal: Prevent losing players from changing to much or making changes in the wrong directs for VIP rewards
• Feedback Functionality: I am hoping that the advice and feedback I give will help you understand and upgrade the “quality”
of game life and game-play for your current and future players
• Risks & Concerns: I hope in the end we all can come to similar conclusions and be able to work together to solve and or
help them find ways to make this better for all of us without too much “blood” shed
The rate of free keys
• If you reduce the amount of keys VIP gets or put them in a store you will more than likely lose a lot of people buying it. It
doesn’t matter if you increase the rate of drops from boxes.
• You should also consider, really consider what your putting in these lock-boxes. At this point in game rank 8s are nothing
but RP and this current lock-box I am sorry but is a joke.
Current Benefits
• Signpost, mail, travel post, bonus hp, and injury immunity, no posting AH, Wondrous Bazaar reduced 25% are my most
valued benefits
Auction House
• Honestly anyone looking to buy items are looking for the best cost. So, everyone posts a price lower than the next. Yes, it
sucks when you get major undercut, but it happens. So, preventing people to withdraw their items may suck we do have
the option of 5,3, and 1 day. So, we would need to reconsider our time frame if you prevented us from doing as we have
been.
VIP Example that you provided I had something to say about.
• If you want to change the re-roll tokens, then give more
• The keys, again they are great, but the boxes have been lacking a lot and only having one key a day really isn’t making a
difference so if you want to change that to perhaps wards or stones great.
• Changing the drop rate of boxes is very tricky so I am unsure if this should be a thing
• Higher AD cap percentage would love this, make it very nice for those that pay for VIP
• Ability for VIP to change load-outs away from campfires would replace moonstone mask teleport
• Additional HP of course that is a good thing along with the injury immunity we have already, invocation, mailbox, signpost,
discounts etc
• Removal of VIP ranks would be foolish very foolish
Side-not: I do like that you are trying to find ways to improve things and bring in new people but you as I am sure you know, need to keep in mind your veterans players when making changes. I assume this is why you are asking the opinions of what we think and how it will affect us. But I would highly recommend not changing the Rank system of VIP.
SW:Mouse
OP:MisfitMouse
Why? if you currently have VIP rank 12, you dont lose anything. it makes ZERO difference to you at all.
Where as a new fresh faced player comes along and is thinking about spending some money on the game, and looks at VIP.
VIP rank 1 is lets face it, not very enticing at all, you get diddly squat but it still costs 10 bucks, If that same 10 bucks for a new player gives all the perks up front, that is a MUCH bigger incentive for new players to hand over the cash.
This whole mentality of "i had to do it the long way, so everyone else has to aswell, or i want a refund" just comes across as petty and bitter.
That being said, i do agree that VIP while it could do with an overhaul, it really should be waaaaay down the priority list, There are definately much more pressing aspects of the game that need attention more
Feedback Goal: Encourage models that incentivize loyal customers and make them feel appreciated over time, rather than just involve them in single transaction models or devalue their time/money sink.
Feedback Functionality: You would need a way to track continuous VIP membership that linked to access to perks. I have zero knowledge of what is required to do that on your end, but imagine that it basically exists within your capacity now.
Risks & Concerns: Some people will want all the perks without investing time, and may be upset that they can't purchase *every* benefit in the game and must wait for them. Folks that have breaks in VIP membership may want to argue with customer service about how their break in membership shouldn't count.
Example of what ranked loyalty over time bonuses might look like:
VIP remains as it is, ranks and all.
No new currencies and no auction house changes.
Current rewards are polished (such as trade bar purchases).
Folks that buy VIP get additional perks added to their rank of VIP for each month (or whatever time period) that they remain a continuous VIP member. These are minor perks like getting a discount on changing equipment appearances, removing enchants, or purchasing workshop supplies. Lower rank VIP perks over time are best for newer players, while higher rank VIP perks over time are better for veterans. At VIP 12, in addition to all the loyalty perks of the lower levels you'd receive slightly better odds on lockboxes and have those odds increase every month a very small amount. The odds (without perk) should be clearly listed, and then the odds should increase over time at a slight rate over time of unbroken VIP membership. That rate of change should also be transparent.
My SWOT analysis on VIP:
Strengths: VIP program is an approximation of subscription model. Implemented correctly, subscription model provides both smoother/more predictable revenue and increased player retention. From my perspective as a long-time player, VIP in Neverwinter is a functioning, generally successful program.
Weaknesses: Players have spent real money on VIP. Their expectation of value provided for their purchase is much stronger than with typical in-game systems. Any substantial reductions to perceived VIP value is almost guaranteed to anger affected player, unless a full refund is offered as a choice. Effectively, VIP program has immense inertia due to it's buildup among long-time players (sometimes years of pre-purchased VIP).
Opportunities: New players do not immediately understand the value of VIP. There are also players (both new and long-time) who are dismayed by the cost/benefit ratio of VIP program. Adjusting/increasing the VIP offerings to better appease the players without VIP (while keeping the perceived value for existing VIP holders) would increase player conversion. Some of the ideas (moving VIP benefits to lower ranks or removing the ranks entirely, VIP currency for choosing your own VIP rewards) seem both effective and relatively easy to implement.
The other unexplored opportunity would be to open VIP up for gifting (similarly to Twitch sub gifting).
Threats: Game developers have acquired notable "goodwill debt" among their player base. Players view any changes with distrust. Transparency of the development process is absolutely the right choice to turn this around, but it will take a long time to get out of "debt". Meanwhile, extra care should be taken to avoid any unnecessary negative impacts on existing player base.
Finally, I want to comment on Auction House listing fee. I feel very strongly that this fee should not exist at all. It is totally unnecessary (the 10% sales tax already counterbalances arbitrage) and mostly hurts the players with least purchasing power. Get rid of it ASAP, literally no-one will be sorry to see it go. Anyone who says otherwise is trolling hard.
++++++Not pay ah tax++++++ this is lovely with a broken economy yu know if i pay 10% every time how many ad ive lost in 4 year is crazy how many time i ve to sell laque 1by 1 supercutted because ppl dsnt buy and i see 30/40 come back to me after 5 day so dsnt change vip ah tax pls will be bad ppl with vip will stop to sell a lot think for dant lost money.if this will be applied prob is my goodbye to the game.
Adding currency and vip store will be cool but i will not touch the daily key i was on twitch and ppl asked yu about give more not less remember??? Yu still have to give an overage value 30-50k day if yu remove some key .
.....4 the daily key......
a choice what yu want today a key or currency for buy in a vip store? This will be cool choice between rewards maybe not forever but for a some months transition in wait yu set up store and yu are sure we enjoy the remove key idea or not yu cant just remove some key yu need to be gentle let us try yur store and we see.this change not let me say goodbye lol just ah tax
I think the value of VIP is in a pretty good spot. However, higher drop rates (on e.g. the legendary mount) does not necessarily mean that you get 2x/3x the value out of the same lockboxes. Depends pretty much about how the drop rates are handled - but even with 15 keys VIP would still worth be it... But that's because the additional perks are so important.
Alternates to keys
Choice is good so I like that. One thing however - the reroll tokens are now per character. If you make this part of the currency with which you also get the enchanted keys - you would get a lot less of those reroll tokens all of a sudden. I think there still should be a per character reward. Making the per character reward the same currency however would be broken for the people (like me) that have 50+ characters on their account, unless you have 2 currencies (like we don't have enough currencies yet):
Example:
Per account currency
- Enchanted Keys
- Enchanting stones
- Wards
Per character currency- Reroll tokens
- Retraining tokens
- Gold?
RanksNot sure it would be well received to remove all ranks - so I advise against that. What you should do however is move the travel post to VIP level 1, that would make VIP directly much more valuable. Also, instead of removing ranks I would actually add ranks with some new perks ideas that I will list later on.
VIP Benefits
I'm not sure why this is an important listing here - are you thinking about removing perks?
Anyway, important VIP perks for me:
- Travel signpost
- Bank summon
- Mail summon
- Enchanted keys
- Reroll tokens
- Invoke anywhere
- Injury Immunity (although I feel injuries should be removed from the game altogether)
Regarding the current benefits: 10% bonus xp/glory does not work (at least it does not show on the character sheet) ever since m16 has come out.New Benefits
- Interact with a campfire to travel to any other unlocked (seen by walking) campfire on the map
- Swap loadout anywhere sounds great
- Greater AD refine cap could be a thing, maybe scale with VIP rank
- Guild bank anywhere
- SH coffer anywhere
- Reduced morale costs to rush professions
- Reduced gold costs for professions?
- No morale cost to remotely pick up things from the profession bag
- More buy/sell slots in auction house (new version - see below)
- Additional discount in zen market (like the wondrous bazaar discount, but not 25% of course
)
Given time I could come up with more perks - add them at ranks you feel fit.Auction House
The auction house could use a rework. It is tedious to work with and often returns errors when overloaded. I propose a rework of the auction house!
Instead of people having free reign on pricing - let the game find a price based on supply/demand. A bit like the ZAX but better. Players can then sell an item or a stack of items for that price +-10 or 20%. The auction house will automatically sell singular items from a stack if applicable. All sales have a tax of 10% like now. I would not add a posting fee.
Players have a fixed amount of slots for buying and/or selling (maybe seperate those?).
But Rainer, what if I want to give away AD in a giveaway?
Well I propose to also just make a simple donate AD option somewhere in the game with a maximum of 1 million AD per day per account (numbers can be played with). This way we don't have to sell a potion of health for 1million to help someone out, and the limit is low enough to counter gold sellers. Maybe even link this as a VIP perk to further combat RWT.
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Patreon
Feedback Overview
VIP should be updated, but not at the expense of those of us who have supported you for YEARS. Think very hard before you take anything away or devalue any part of the current VIP program or ANYTHING in game for that matter. The mere fact that you used taking away keys and devaluing the VIP program in your examples shows that you are severely out of touch. You know that the writing is on the wall for Lockboxes in video games. Get out ahead of what is coming and post your odds. We rely on Rainer to give us any insight into odds and drop rates. We also all know just how easily the odds can be manipulated. The current Lockbox DRAMA only reinforces that fact. (Seriously it was freaking reported with video a full week before launch on the preview forums! SMH!)Feedback Goal
Discuss reasonable options to improve VIP without devaluing it, while admittedly venting a little anger.Feedback Functionality
VIP was at one time one of the very few things in this game that was actually worth buying with real money. Sadly it has languished over the years and has been bashed with the nerf bat like several other parts of the game. It was my way to show support for the developers while also getting several QOL improvements and increasing the amount of AD I could earn.Over the years almost all of the AD earning perks were removed from VIP. Salvage was removed from the game. Trade bars were devalued. The trade bar store fell into a state of uselessness, and unavoidable injuries started appearing from new sources that were not covered by VIP. The Professions trader became useless, the "New" Seal trader didn't even have the new seals and probably still doesn't, I have not looked. Basically the only use for VIP was for the FREE (Funny that I think I paid for them.) keys, teleport sign, bank, discounts and reroll tokens. Lockboxes are a shadow of their former selves also so unless you open the "old" lockboxes VIP doesn't even pay for itself anymore. VIP was one of the few things I would tell every new player I helped to buy with cash until they could pay for it through the ZAX.
So where is the value? Keys (Chance for a leg mount or good prize), Discounts, QOL perks and reroll tokens. I'm sure there will be several good suggestions in this thread that could be added. Please do not take anything else away. We have lost enough already. Fix the game, build some trust and then ask for money. I am sure many of us would gladly just donate. I did when I played POE, and so did hundreds if not thousands of others. Do you know why we just gave them money? Trust, communication, community engagement, good content.... You get the point.
We do not need yet another store and even more currency. We have the trade bar store and we earn trade bars with our keys. Update the trade bar store! Stop nerfing companions buff them and make them more unique, add useful gear, and put anything else you were thinking about adding to this "new" store in there. You could even add Coal wards back! (I know that is a reach. Sorry for the TRIGGER folks.) If you need more ideas look no further than your own forums, there are dozens of great ideas that have been there for YEARS, not only for VIP but also for the Zen store items that people WANT to buy.
Instead of removing ranks add more and reduce the price for the earlier ranks.
30 keys = 30 days
Please don't mess with my reroll tokens!
You can have your health potions back. (Was that a joke?)
Risks & Concerns
If you decide to change the amount of keys or remove anything from the current VIP program I doubt I will ever spend money in this game again. Look at my account, and notice the trend. Cryptic has a major trust problem already, this company has a reputation for nerfs, bait and switch tactics and a perceived disdain for the customer. If there is any doubt about this read the threads on this forum. Making changes to something we have already PAID for without first repairing the broken state of the game, and poor community trust will do more harm than good.As a side note: This topic for a CDP is the main reason I asked for a poll or some way to suggest topics. There are literally DOZENS of other topics that are IMO far more important and far more urgent. I actually had already prepared my ideas for the Rewards and Progression CDP. Please consider asking us what topics we think are urgent, I think it is important.
B ) Add more stuff to tradebar store, ward,character customization, hair, companion token, reroll race,.... old skin stuff (a lot) need more weapon skin MORE MORE MORE customization
C ) vip 1 50% more campaign value
D ) vip1 50% profession gold/heart discount
p.s. however the vip system is'nt bad now
little note off topic,
Dungeons feedback
dungeon rewards aren't on line to the effort(scaling system),
my only target on Dungeon->AD,(boring, it's like a work)
need more shiny stuff,tatoo....
- VIP ranks doenst make sense for me. Only confuses new players and make coding more complex. You have the service or you dont. I dont get why players whould be angry against this.
- Decreasing the number of keys is a bad idea. You only will get angry players. IMHO giving keys and other things with vip was a bad idea since the start because VIP should be QoL oriented, but now is late to change this.
- Increasing Lockboxes odds: I dont care, but this shouldnt affect VIP. Lockboxes are in general bad since we only get mostly refinement. You wont sell to players an increase in odds in exchange for less keys. Wont work. Lockboxes should be totally changed but thats other topic. I think you should increase tarmalune bars, more later.
- Implementing another shop and currency is a Big NO. You already have tarmalune trade bars. You need to give more bars with lockboxes (or even direct bars with VIP) and add more items to the tradebar store. Items that we need daily, like preservation wards, companion tokens, and important: Reroll tokens. Actually you get only 3 per day per character, I think a player with VIP should be able to get 10 or 15 per acount per day or more. Also legendary keys should be more accesible to people with VIP as I understand (QoL -> if you are VIP you can open legendary chest without having to farm old currency for keys).
- Changing Loadouts everywhere. When loadouts were implemented I was disapointed that they only could be changed in campfires. Some dungeons doesnt have campfires where you need to change so this should be implemented no matter if you are VIP or not, but whatever.
- Increasing rough AD per day. I dont care, not much of a difference for me. I dont have internal numbers, but the economy of the game is already bad with lots of AD entering the game. If you give players the chance to get more AD with no efective AD sinks the economy will be worse.
- AH Fees. This is a controversial one. I have to say that I am a big AH user so this feature saves me millions of AH in fees. But I recognize this was a bad feature for the game health. I was surprised when they introduced VIP with this feature and instantly bought rank 12 the first day just for this.
I remember when you had fees and AH prizes were more realistic, and there were good opportunities to buy some deals because some people were afraid to not sell. If you dont have fees you post higher prizes with no risk, so in general AH prizes are higher. People wont accept this and you expose to a major flame but I think this feature is bad for the game in general. You need to compensate people if you are going to remove this. I suggest 1 free posting in AH per day.
Another idea that came to mind was to overhaul the tarmalune trade store to have some items that cost Tarmalune + AD to implement a new AD sink. But you need to put items that people wants a lot like preservation wards or companion tokens.
my 2 cents
Caturday Survivor
Elemental Evil Survivor
Undermontain Survivor
Mod20 Combat rework Survivor
Mod22 Refinement rework Survivor
As for your CDP topic, I feel as if you are asking the playerbase " would you like more choice"? A clear example of this is giving players the option to choose between keys and other items as part of their daily VIP rewards.
The ones I find really important are and why:
1) "Removal of VIP ranks meaning that anyone who purchases VIP gets full benefits immediately" - A welcoming change for newcomers.
2)A higher cap on refined AD per day for VIP, 15% more for a cap of 115,000 - I like the idea, gives the incentive to players to grind.
3)Ability for VIP to change loadouts away from campfires - Why was it limited to campfires in the first place? You have made this game way too restrictive.
4) Increased health gain from VIP – grants every member of your group 1% of their base HP as additional Max HP. Maximum 5% with a full group of VIP - Welcomed by End game players.
5) Bringing back listing fees on Auction House for VIP - This could backfire and for me it is clearly restricting our freedom. A big reason why undercutting even happens is when supply increases the demand and you took long enough to fix darkened to know this well.
My current most preferred benefit/s:
Travelling signpost and Mailbox!
You want to know how I feel ? I just am speechless, wow.
First post on the forums, as I want to contribute to these important topics !
Let me start, by answering the asked questions :
*) The rate of free keys : Personally, I'm not hung up on the daily key. They are a nice gift, but are in effect a lottery ticket... I don't mind giving them and the chance to that one-in-a-million legendary item up alltogether in favour of something more low-key but consistent. (Because this is what VIP should be I think, a little help/nudge to do away with some of the free-to-play grinds.)
For me the lockbox and its odds should be separated from VIP. They are as I said lotterly tickets, be up front with odds, prizes and prices and let people decide if they want to play that game. Honestly I don't. So my answer : I don't care about the key, as long as it is replaced with something that adds comfort or lessens the grind.
*) Alternates to keys : I'm all for it. As you mentioned, this could be giving out VIP currency (trade bars) and a rework of the trade bar store and having items there that are actually in demand, like preservation wards. Items that are quality of life or lessen the grind, not pay to win rewards. BUT, please do away with the manual claiming on different characters. This is not what playing a game should be... When I see my guild/alliance members log on, there are first 2-50 log on/offs while they go claim/invoke things on every alt... This only creates frustration in my opinion. Add the rewards as you please, daily/monthly, to your account (with the balance accessible for everyone of your chars) and make the rewards BoA. (No monetizing your benefit, but you are completely free to use them where you want.) (Also there should be no difference if you have 50 characters or just one. so the reroll tokens as far as I'm concerned can go too. Or come at a cost : you get your reroll tokens, but that means that what you get will be BoA. Same thing as before, VIP should not be monetized !)
*) Ranks : I'm okay with removing the system of ranks. You could have some sort of loyalty program is you so like, on top of VIP. But the core of VIP should be the same for everybody and that should at least include those quality-of-life perks (sign post, mail box, (seal) vendor, bank portal...) I'm not too sure about injuries, I'm an oldskool player, so I don't mind injuries... but the current system is weird.. VIP just springs all the traps without a care and the newbie behind is handicapped into the ground. So either take out injuries alltogether, or leave them in but for everybody... adding value to trapdisarming classes and injury-healing classes. (This is actually a very difficult one, players often dislike these systems, same as they do loss of control over their character (crowd control)... )
What do I value about VIP benefits ? Just that : Quality-of-life : Travel signpost/bank portal/mailbox/vendor. Besides that, it is mainly the AH posting fee. Again as with the injuries, this should not be part of VIP, again it is monetizing... I will argue that it should even not exist at all. I understand the need for an AD/Zen drain, but do it on the sale only rather than on the listing. You now have a perverse system where the rich and or those with VIP can just relist without a care, while the others often can't even list a high-value item... because the risk of not selling and losing the posting fee is just such a big hit. So in short, either do away with the posting fee completely (or if that is really needed for the AD/Zen drain, make it reasonable and fixed, independant of the item list price), or add it to the sales fee when you actually sell an item.
*) Auction House : See above.
*) VIP Example
- VIP Currency : See above. All for it, but with the remarks I made.
- 10-15 Lockbox Keys per month : For my part do away with keys, but I do understand that for a lot of players those are the things they want. So as a compromise, put them in the VIP currency store, and make sure people can get the same worth out of their keys if they want to buy them, or if not, that they can choose another item from the store.
- Increased odd chances on items in Lockboxes moving forward. : I don't really have an opinion other than be upfront with the lockboxes : price/prizes/chance at winning should be displayed in the tooltip plain for everyone to see.
- Instead of directly getting reroll tokens, VIP would be given a VIP currency and would have a store. The contents of this store would adjust over time but would likely start with things such as Preservation Wards, Enchanting Stones, Companion Upgrade Tokens, and yes Reroll Tokens. : All for it, but with the remarks I made.
- A higher cap on refined AD per day for VIP, 15% more for a cap of 115,000 : As the game stands, and the current endless grind, that sounds very nice... but again VIP should not be monetized I think. So I'd love it really, but on the other hand I don't think it is a good thing. (What I'd rather see e.g. is VIP gets auto-refind for AD => This is again quality-of-life, non-vips can get the same, but they need to put in more effort.)
- Ability for VIP to change loadouts away from campfires : YES ! Playing a healer I feel this pain daily... While trying to make a group and being wanted as a healer, I effectively have to just idle in my healer-loadout... which is very annoying. (Or keep playing and trying to heal mobs to death....
- Increased health gain from VIP : Don't care for it, not quality-of-life... but an edge over other players. Shouldn't exist. If you truly are free to play, this should not be necessary or even desirable.
- Removal of VIP ranks meaning that anyone who purchases VIP gets full benefits immediately. : All for it. (You could have some sort of loyalty program on top to add to retention... But I'm not sure what this would look like.. A voucher for store discount ? A cosmetic item, title, ... ?)
*) Overall feedback : For me something is flawed in the way character power is built up... The fact that (augment) companions, and as a result runestones, represent so much of a characters power feels very wrong to me. Actually I don't feel like I'm making my character stronger, I think at this point my polar bear would best me in combat
Sorry for the wall-of-text, but in the end I do think this is/could be a great game (with great storytelling) and great potential and I would love to see it go in the right direction.
Thank you,
Ama
... should stay the same, just add a counter to opening lockboxes with them like it's with refining, after xy keys used an bound to account reward from the top bracket is granted. That wouldn't affect those lucky ducks that allways get a legendary drop after spending 3 keys, but everyone else would at least have something to look forward to at some point.
Alternates to keys
... again, hands of those daily lockbox keys! Do whatever you like to those bloody Reroll Tokens, but keys should remain off limit regarding any changes to ViP!
Ranks
... why is there no notion of actually increasing those ranks?! I mean, we're stuck on Rank 12 for YEARS now!
Current Benefits
... i value the daily keys above anything else, and the rest is nice to have.
New Benefits
... should go with NEW ViP RANKS!
Auction House
... what the AH really needs are updated sections and search options. For example, a category (Fighter, Mystical, Invoker and so on) filter option in the companion department. Not to mention a fix for the issue when we have to relist an item over and over again before it's actually in the AH.
VIP Example
... add a ViP Trader to Protectors Enclave, where we can exchange Reroll Tokens for Preservation Wards, Enchanting Stones, Companion Upgrade Tokens and so on.
... +1% more Tarmalune Trade Bars from lockboxes per ViP Rank.
... +x% more raw AD from dungeon/skirmish runs per ViP Rank.
... +y% more Seals from dungeon/skirmish runs per ViP Rank.
... +z% more campaign currencies from weekly quests per ViP Rank.
The redesign of the lockboxes allready did a pretty good job on decreasing the value of ViP, add most of the examples listed in the opening post to that and ViP would become worthless to a good portion of players.
I have the idea that, in general, the droprate should be increased. Legendary mount, for example, is around 0.15% and it's a too little chance. Increasing it at around 1% should be more honest. On the other hand 1 key per day, per account, is fair and with the "correction" of the droprate I don't think it's needed to decrease the amount per month, but could be nice to have an increasing of number of keys per day depending on VIP rank (for example each 8 VIP rank for a maximum of 2 keys per day, with also and increase in number of VIP ranks up to rank 16 - read below).
Alternatives rewards
Here, a different value from heals potions could be interesting. Maybe a currency with a dedicated shop where to spend this currency for Marks of Potency, Stones of Health, Enchanting Stones, Companion Upgrading tokens, Wards (and in general worth stuff in game) can be really, really nice to have.
Ranks
Ranks are good. The idea of giving same benefits should be limited in things such as travelling portal, bank, etc. While other benefits like WB discounts, bonus stats, etc are good for different ranks. It's possible to add more ranks with more rewards (maybe up to rank 16 to put some more rewards).
VIP Benefits
Travelling, bank, vendor could be up from any rank, while other stuff depending on rank.
New Benefits
New currency instead of potions of health with a dedicated store.
Auction House
- No fees in posting/removing things,
- A better search engine,
- Decreasing in fees (when selling a thing) depending on the VIP rank,
- Maximum % of decreasing or increasing prices depending on the cheapest or most expensive one, to better controll big oscillation of the market (maybe can help?).
I'll think other option in the meantime and upgrade the comment later.
1) Keys - reduced rate would be acceptable if a commensurate bump in rewards was attached to it. Not only an increase in rate, but an improved range of rewards. Stop giving outdated artifacts and start giving rewards of value between stones and leg mounts
2) I do like the store idea - I have more reroll tokens than I am likley to ever use. How about adding a Character to Account unbind token? Or even an Unbind token (acceptable for it to be expensive - like 3 months worth of daily VIP claims...)
3) Reroll tokens - how about adding more uses for reroll tokens (hunts, zok boxes, lockboxes). Or even a premium reroll token that can be bought with regular reroll tokens (maybe 9 regular = 1 premium), or with new VIP currency
3) VIP ranks - Since some of the purchases that used to include free ranks no longer do, buying VIP for an extended play pretty much provides ranks anyway, so don't have a real issue with that
4) VIP Current benefits listed in order of usage: 1) Signpost. 2) Seal vendor (as much to sell to as to spend seals - put a merchant in my workshop and that would be curbed significantly - that would be a nice VIP feature) 3) Mailbox 4) Banking Portal. Rarely use professional vendor (though could use instead of seal trader - seal trader is kind of 2 birds with 1 stone option as I can check some of my seals and sell stuff in one place. Almost never use Moonstone Mask - replace that with a teleport to stronghold. Other VIP benefits that would be nice - higher RAD refine cap, HP idea is OK - but a bigger bump for solo play would be nice), Professions bank in the workshop to allow crafting goods to be transferred between characters without all the steps involved with mailing them
5) Auction House - not sure of the answer here. I don't want to give up my 0% listing fee - and I am not a power seller. What about just adding a de-listing fee, or a re-listing within 24 hours fee (or escalating fee for multiple re-posts)? Not sure anything would get rid of undercutting as its not just power sellers that undercut
1. I think that making the keys not be a daily thing, even with increased lockbox odds, would still feel more like something is being taken, than something being given, and would anger a large part of the player base. There would be a massive amount of angry players posting on all the social media. It would be another "coal gate" situation, or potentially even worse. I would rather not go through that again, please.
2. I like the idea of not having the VIP ranks anymore. And, I wonder, if you were to remove the ranks, if maybe there could be limited sales of "Lifetime VIP" made available? I don't know if those make money for games or not, so I would guess, look at the numbers from STO's and see? I do understand that it's a business, and ya'll do need to make money to keep the game going.
3. The AH fees... most games have AH fees for a reason, as a gold sink. Removing these completely for a large portion of the player base feels like it has caused more harm than good. I would be ok with this being replaced by something else, though I feel a lot of veteran players would be upset by this, the majority of the player base would understand as long as the reasoning was communicated efficiently.
That's all my opinion on the proposed changes for now.
Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official.
Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
> My initial thoughts so far:
>
> 1. I think that making the keys not be a daily thing, even with increased lockbox odds, would still feel more like something is being taken, than something being given, and would anger a large part of the player base. There would be a massive amount of angry players posting on all the social media. It would be another "coal gate" situation, or potentially even worse. I would rather not go through that again, please.
> 2. I like the idea of not having the VIP ranks anymore. And, I wonder, if you were to remove the ranks, if maybe there could be limited sales of "Lifetime VIP" made available? I don't know if those make money for games or not, so I would guess, look at the numbers from STO's and see? I do understand that it's a business, and ya'll do need to make money to keep the game going.
> 3. The AH fees... most games have AH fees for a reason, as a gold sink. Removing these completely for a large portion of the player base feels like it has caused more harm than good. I would be ok with this being replaced by something else, though I feel a lot of veteran players would be upset by this, the majority of the player base would understand as long as the reasoning was communicated efficiently.
>
> That's all my opinion on the proposed changes for now.
Sry if i quote yu but sometime we have item rank15 or mount leg not bis we spend to mutch es for pushing up a enc and we never bring back value if we cant able to put in ah lot time until we get the right price...maybe for some item we need no tax
Please read this thread, read @oremonger#9999 s feedback, then read it again, and contemplate really really hard, brainstorm in team if you must, if this is the correct path.
You get an A for wording it nicely, tho. This is the tone my former boss used to ask me if I can stay longer for every day the next month long.
as it is there is a tax on items being sold. a hefty one. it's good enough. for the last number of years most of the people in game have vip that I have played with. it's rare to have someone say please put down a bank or mail box. Most have it. the last time I remember that being a thing was in the first year after vip was introduced. the only people that do not have it are the newer or poorer players (although I have been witnessing it more recently. I think there are a contingent of old time players who are letting their vip run out and refusing to renew it due to dissatisfaction with the game). they (newer and poorer) do get taken advantage of because of this.
I've seen them in pe trying to make deals with people selling items at half price once they raise the funds to list their item so they can afford to buy vip. tbh that really does Hamster... just getting rid of the posting fee is reasonable imo. it's a very valid way to get people to buy vip though. I'm also ok with them moving that particular perk down the ranks. I see the inequality that one invokes.
This particular tiger they've taken by the tail is an angry one with big teeth.. I'm really confused by the statement they're going to win back our trust, and then taking THIS on.. instead of the topic that we were all looking forward to and seeing as a positive move forward. Even broaching this with the examples put forth is just a huge trust beater. I'm at a lower morale point than I was a month and a half ago after reading this. honestly.. this is dynomite. tread carefully or the situation will explode in an angry leaving player base. some of us have a lot of laundry and dishes to do that look more and more attractive..
With the amount of keys in the market, if we simply get an "Improved chances" lockbox, everything in it will be devalued to the point of inconsequence.
If you want to go this way, or ever want to add a Mythic tier reward like mythic mounts, probably the best way to go about it while keeping drops valuable would be to make a "Two locks lockbox", or something along those lines. Increase the number of keys required along with the improvement in rewards to not make all the older lockboxes outdated and the drops in the new one too common to have any value.
There will be significant backlash if you lower the amount of keys awarded by VIP. But if you make it so players can either get a daily key or choose from other rewards, that might help with your intent of lowering the amount of awarded keys in practice. Still, I don't think this would accomplish what you are aiming for.
The removal of ranks is a relatively good choice, after all adding additional ranks would make it look like a significant paywall. However it should be handled with care, as those that have already paid for more than 12 months of VIP for the sake of ranking it up would feel cheated out of their money and effort.
I doubt that many people like or value VIP ranks in a particular sense, they are little more than a paywall between players and benefits they might want, but just getting rid of them without any sort of compensation would not leave your current playerbase happy.
Travelling signpost, Mailbox, Bank, these three might stab immersion in the face and then throw its gasping soon-to-be corpse in a lake of acid full of rabid acid-breathing piranhas, but they do make life much easier while adventuring.
The Bazaar discount is a nice addition that made ranking VIP up desirable to begin with past the aforementioned rewards. But this is not a quality of life matter, I don't see a problem with it being dropped from the table in a theoretical future iteration of VIP, as long as a reward of similar value is put in its place so dropping it doesn't just make the grind for upgrades steeper.
As for the rest, they barely register.
The problem here is that some items are just /difficult/ to sell, it can take you days if not weeks to get them sold, and if you don't occasionally re-list them they will simply never sell. If you take steps to making re-listing no longer a viable option, the entire workings of the Auction House would need a serious rework so players aren't stuck just tossing their items in its general direction and praying for deliverance.
And just in case this needs to be clarified, that would be a very bad thing. A potentially your-decision-just-damned-this-game-to-bankruptcy kind of bad thing.
No need for seers or tarot reading to see that.
I can give a more detailed insight in two of these matters, but that'll be at another time.
Feedback Overview: Overall changes to VIP
After reading through everyone's comments it is clear that making big changes (i.e. removing/changing existing benefits) would no sit well with people that have pre-paid VIP for months and years into the future. This problem is due to the fact that you sold rank plus time together...
Please don't take away existing benefits. People will value each benefit differently, but we all purchased VIP for a reason and making a change or removing will suck a lot.
Feedback Goal
If you want to add your list of new benefits to the system, then we can (mostly) agree that (some of) your suggestions would be great additions. What I would suggest is to add more ranks to VIP (above 12) to fit in your additions. You can bundle some of them together, of course.
Consider reordering which benefits are accrued at each rank. However, you must ensure that if a player has an existing benefit at their current rank, that the are advanced in rank to still receive that benefit during your restructure.
Feedback Functionality
Unbundle time from rank. If I am Rank 12 VIP with 24 months of time, and you restructure the system to have 16 ranks of VIP available, then I am advanced in Rank to match my current benefits (having access to all ranks rewards under my new rank). In my example let's say I get bumped to Rank 13... Now I am Rank 13/16 with 24 months and if I want the next level of reward, then I can purchase Rank 14, but still only have 24 months of time. In the future I can choose to buy more VIP time (or not) and you get the benefit of adding more ranks later on the other side of the model.
Feedback Overview Regarding lockbox percentage increases
The percentage chance of getting the orange items we are all after is SO LOW that there is no real meaningful change that you would reasonably make (you wont increase our odds to 1/90).
Feedback Functionality
What if you played into your dice rolling model a little more and included a 'Streak bonus' for VIP members. Could be anything rewarding free value to the results. Say, if we open 10 lockboxes and receive the same pack twice or three times in a row, we get increased odds at something, or a free key, or heavily increased odds of getting an orange result in our next open (say 2%).
Risks & Concerns
Ultimately, any change to the lockbox odds will haev a heavy effect on the economy.