> @tekathurrai said: > > @tekathurrai said: > > > So I'm a newer player. Played for about 3 months now. I have 3x rank 9 bonding runestones on my Fire Archon. I'm personally not all that affected by the nerf because > > > a) I haven't put THAT much money into them, yet > > > b) the percentage of the buff isn't affected a lot at my current rank. Something like -5% I think? > > > > > > After reading the forums for the last few days or so (this is the most I've ever interacted with a forum - anywhere - ever) I noticed a few things > > > 1) the 50% uptime was a huge problem...but that was fixed > > > 2) the huge percentage drop...not fixed > > > 3) the cost to get 12 to 14 seemed to demotivate players and seemed almost pointless, forcing some players to leave the game before investing more. > > > > > > For 2) as others have mentioned, you could bring up the bondings percentage more (not to it's current live percentage, as the nerf is understandable to an extent) and make the other runestones better than what they're currently slated for > > > > > > As for 3) weighing probably more than 2) in my opinion, the simple solution would be to create a vendor in PE for a limited time. This vendor would use the bonding runestones rank 12 and 12 only as currency to buy the rank 14 bondings. It would also have the other runestones at rank 14 for purchase in case some people wanted to move away from bonding (better to have and not want than want and not have). And maybe have a total transaction limit of 3 so as to at least bring main toons but to their top again. > > > > > > This is just a noob player coming with an idea as a part of this "feedback" thread. > > > > > > I won't even get started on the owlbear cub nerf that I saw on preview that is no where mentioned by the devs, but dropped my Owlbear Cub-oriented Templock DPS by 44% or so effectively making my build/class/character completely useless now in dungeons...........I was almost tempted to leave the game as I downloaded another MMO yesterday, but I am sticking with it for a little longer to see what happens. > > > > > > Let me know what you fellow players think. Maybe my idea of the vendor would break something else? > > > > > > > > > > can you or anybody else explain what makes the nerf understandable? it's being said by the devs that it's to bring them in line with other runes, what does that mean exactly? if everything as it is now goes through, rank 12 eldritch x3 or rank 12 bond x3 are still too weak to complete tier 3 for the average player. especially players of certain classes like yourself that had a build set up that also got a stealth nerf(owlbear templock). for the near or at bis players, its a nerf that is an annoyance. they could still do tier 3 but it's still a resale for them, which is unnacceptable. > > > > > > the only way I would accept a nerf if there is a vendor to trade my 3x12 in for 3x14 that are at 285% in total, but I dont want that type of thing to happen, it's extremely selfish and unforgiving to everybody else still. players who are just getting rank 10 or 11, what about them? it's just not right. I want to do something fair for everybody. > > I can see where they are saying that it is too powerful. I can understand it. I can see why they want to bring it down to make things a "tad" harder, for that good challenge. Bringing UP runestones is an option, but again, I think that shouldn't be the sole option. I think it would be acceptable to have rank 14 bondings at 75% so 225% total, which is 60% drop from live. And bring up runestones so they are a bit more comparable. I can see why devs want them in line, because its true, why run anything other than bonding? Why even have runestones in the game at that point.
the thing is, the dev just clarified that it's not to make content harder(content that was built in mind with using bondings mind you), it's that they want bondings more in line with other runestones...how can you even say bondings are too powerful if you've never even used rank 12s?
here's an interesting fact I haven't seen mentioned yet, by a dev or mod on here that is claiming bondings are so far out of line that it has become a problem, claiming other runestones as is are becoming underutilized. there are 21(22 with TONG) current epic dungeons, trials, and skirmishes. how many of them are built around bondings? 5, including TONG...how many have and can be done without even one bonding of any rank? in my personal experience, 17. now where in the world can anybody gain the notion that other runestones, as is, are useless, when in virtually 3/4 of end game(as in 60+ level) content, investing in them is not even important?
if anything, bondings are simply just end game as is, mainly for dps characters at that. I've been in a few groups with the tank running eldritch/empowered in fbi and completed it, though pretty rare. bumping them and other runestones wouldn't be bad at all, but the nerf can't be justified by any means that have been brought forth, despite it looking inevitable to happen.
> @noworries#8859 said: > Bonding runestones were not adjusted due to power creep. They were adjusted due to being so far out of line with the rest of runestones/companions. It was something on our radar for a long time, and where it may have been easier to accept if it had happened sooner, it still needed to happen. > > The refinement changes were something we already had plans for and were working on. With that coming down the line, we knew that any changes to bonding runestones needed to happen before players started investing in T13 and T14 bonding runestones and that is why these changes are all bundled together. > > At this point we are still going forward with the bonding runestones as they are now. We realize there are other issues in the game and those are all things to be looked at independently of this. Bonding runestones do need to be brought closer in line with the rest of the companion system, and these changes still leave them out in front as the most powerful choice for most players.
biggest load of utter rubbish I've ever heard, once we get all our enchants get back to rank 14 we will be back to where we are now which will fix nothing, do you take us all for fools and mugs this is a simple cash grab
Post edited by muckingfuppet on
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treesclimberMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,161Arc User
You guys keep Saying the same thing "we'll have the same amount of stats with r14 enchants", this nerf was not to address the big amount of stats a player can get, it was to address the capacity of bondings when compared to other runestones. Powercreep by all the things, specially power share should be addressed? Yes. Is this rework to address that ? No.
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mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
They nerf our personal stat progress and keep the need to invest to other classes mechanisms. Do you want to deal more damage ? raise your hp. DId you lose your power with the nerf on bondings?? Dont worry power share is still here and nothing changes)
so why nerf them now after all this time? when we are finally approaching a time when we could justify their use? it seems that we were getting close with dungeons like MSP and To9G.
and why are you nerfing bondings only to increase the strength of other enchantments? to force us to change once again?
im sure its to spread the strength around..so its not all dependent on bondings. yet, i feel compelled to point out once again how we lived with it this long, why now? why, when bringing other things up to their level could have been built into future mods along with more difficult content. As mods are introduced, one expect players, gear, and enchantments to eventually have higher levels.
In your quest to give players other options, you are chasing a pot of gold because something will always be "the best" and thats what players will work towards (especially if you keep simplifying everything because you are worried its too complicated).
Bonding runestones were not adjusted due to power creep. They were adjusted due to being so far out of line with the rest of runestones/companions. It was something on our radar for a long time, and where it may have been easier to accept if it had happened sooner, it still needed to happen.
The refinement changes were something we already had plans for and were working on. With that coming down the line, we knew that any changes to bonding runestones needed to happen before players started investing in T13 and T14 bonding runestones and that is why these changes are all bundled together.
At this point we are still going forward with the bonding runestones as they are now. We realize there are other issues in the game and those are all things to be looked at independently of this. Bonding runestones do need to be brought closer in line with the rest of the companion system, and these changes still leave them out in front as the most powerful choice for most players.
have you fully considered the ethical implications of taking something (one of the few things in the game actually) that people have spent more ACTUAL money... time and effort into grinding to a certain level.. then reducing it by a significant amount and then RESELLING the SAME thing to them.. that had already been purchased..
most business ethics classes would steer you very strongly away from doing such a thing. selling something new is one thing. stealing something then selling it back is another story. we're not stupid. we see it.
do you have any plans to rebalance the rest of the games difficulty based on this? this affects people playing solo and random parties ala your new queue system, more than anything else. do you have plans to rebalance the difficulty of areas that get played in pugs and solo content to adapt for this. you've built your entire game and it's difficulty around players having these stats now you're removing them. right at the same time as forcing people to random que if they want their daily ad. I do hope that's accounted for in upcoming difficulty changes. especially with the newer dungeons that no normal parties can complete reasonably ALREADY.. you've gated the things that let us update our gear to 14 in a dungeon no one will be able to complete now.
^^ This sums it up! They may have an awesome grand plan of perfect nirvana and balance way down the line but that doesn't change, or excuse, the fact that they took something from us and are repackaging it and giving us the "opportunity" to buy it back.
At this point we are still going forward with the bonding runestones as they are now. We realize there are other issues in the game and those are all things to be looked at independently of this. Bonding runestones do need to be brought closer in line with the rest of the companion system, and these changes still leave them out in front as the most powerful choice for most players.
34 pages of near universal condemnation, alternatives, and pleading from the player base and the long anticipated response is.. "At this point we're still going forward." Nice. /s
They were adjusted due to being so far out of line with the rest of runestones/companions. It was something on our radar for a long time, and where it may have been easier to accept if it had happened sooner, it still needed to happen.
'It still needed to happen.' No, it didn't. It doesn't interfere with our ability to play your game. It has been and IS (up till this announcement) a goal that players could work toward and see some reward for their efforts. A new player coming into this game could have some distantly achievable reference point that they could build their characters on. There are inumerable other things that one can continue to spend on and improve even after the high achievment of rank 12 bondings. Rank 12 anything in this game is difficult to achieve, taking vast amounts of time and/or money.
Few are the companies that get to sell you a product and then come back later to retroactively criplle that product for their own gain. Fewer still are the customers that will appreciate the effort.
This was NOT needed, and not requested. That you state this was on your radar for a long time makes this even WORSE. This company dropped bonding runestones from the Simril even like it was raining in runestone monsoon season. Multiple refine and zen sales events have gone by where refinement materials and RP were sold while bonding runestones were actively being sold on the AH and sold with companions. All this time you were raking in these dollars you were apparently also working out the details of how/when to nerf them for us without warning? Yea thats not so cool either.
I had some apparently misplaced hope that Devs would see the barnfire they started and come back this week to see the folly i this. Perhaps they would see that people actually had a financial AND emotional investment in these things and that it would be better to seek other solutions. I knew historically that that was a slim chance. With that however we could have worked with our friends and guildies to calm fears, and maybe stop this exodus that we're seeing from our friends list.
Sadly.. all they did is charge ahead. Im sad for the game. Im sad for my guild and my friends. Let the search for the next place, one that appreciates their customers, begin.
Oh yes.. and lets not forget the multiple companion sales AND that nowadays all companions come with bonding runestones. Cause you know.. you always have free giveaways of the item you think is too powerful and ruining your systems.
It's all bogus nonsense. They just want more money. End of story. I run in a guild with plenty of folks who have BiS builds and many have spent boatloads on them. r12 bondings on BiS pets. Still, go fight Drufi at the end of FBI without the glitch. It's hit or miss. MSPC ? Same thing. Even with r12 bondings you better bring a bunch of scrolls. (more money for ARC.). My point is, they make the content harder and harder, they make the builds weaker. When they accidentally do something right, given time, they will un-do it. I guarantee you they sit around in conference rooms with some marketing fleeb brainstorming how to force BiS players to buy more ZEN. I guarantee you the nerf to Bondings comes before they fix Hati's AOE damage, or make AA work like it's supposed to, or fix Storvald in MSVA. It's pretty simple. You charge money for ZEN and people actually BUY this stuff. Not too long ago before all this pontification ruined the market prices, a Fire Arch, an Air Archon, and three R12 Bondings would set you back 9-10mil AD...depending on the exchange prices that alone would set you back 300-400$. Let's put that in context. Let's say AT&T sold you a UNLIMITED data plan for 400$. 3 months later they decide... oh that's too powerful we're nerfing it to 3gig just because...AND we're dropping you from LTE down to GSM..For no real reason. We just like 'balancing' things. Arc has demonstrated to a lot of top spending MMO players that they need to find a new game. Message received loud and clear. There are players who are willing to spend money to maintain top tier toons, but we know what it feels like to be extorted. It feels like THIS.
> @treesclimber said: > You guys keep Saying the same thing "we'll have the same amount of stats with r14 enchants", this nerf was not to address the big amount of stats a player can get, it was to address the capacity of bondings when compared to other runestones. Powercreep by all the things, specially power share should be addressed? Yes. Is this rework to address that ? No.
the capacity of the bondings is only 3 epic dungeons and 2 trials more than other runestones out of the 22 total in comparison. why is it that nearly the entire span of this game plus those 17 pieces of epic content are done easily without 1 bonding runestone if bonding runestones are too far out of line? it has nothing to do with power creep or powershare, it's also not about BIS speed farms, so where is the explanation for that?
Come on guys.. As a guildy mine just said.. 'pleasing your customers AND making money doesn't HAVE to be mutually exclusive'
Give up on this. Work on the things that you actually have been asked to that makes all our lives better. Its ok, we'll think 10x better of you if you did, than if you just stubbornly cling to an idea just because you've had it for a long time.
To add another prospective. We can understand that players will choose the the way that brings them the most benefits. That's a given tho what really is a "benefit" may vary. We also know, since the dev said it that the bondings aren't nerfed due to excessive stat share. So the change is not about bonding being overpowered. Good so far.
So in the spirit of balance and if the % of stat points they offer isn't a problem but the problem is the relative utility and stat difference between bonding and others, what exactly is the problem of bringing the other enchants "up" and make more viable options for the players, or more interesting combos like the ones we saw proposed by other players.
Why shouldn't all ruins offer similar behavior and stats and why lower bondings % when there isn't a problem with what the bonding offers in the first place. Why shouldn't every ruin offer % stat share? Arcane can offer stat share % and recovery, Eldritch can offer stat share % and armor pen and so on and let the people choose the stat they need? Every ruin now is equally useful and people will use them based on their class/build/need (though I think we all know the real answer).
I would understand as per devs example that its not a good idea when we have a "buff/item" that high and others down low to increase the others, but clearly (and once again) as stated by the devs, the "high" is not the problem or an issue in the case of bonding.
> @treesclimber said: > You guys keep Saying the same thing "we'll have the same amount of stats with r14 enchants", this nerf was not to address the big amount of stats a player can get, it was to address the capacity of bondings when compared to other runestones. Powercreep by all the things, specially power share should be addressed? Yes. Is this rework to address that ? No.
but with rank 14 bondings and enchants we will be back to where we are now with bondings still being the best so how does this fix anything? no one will be using an augment so the only thing this nerf will do is make people spend more money, it's a cash grab and everyone sees it,
I can understand a nerf after a month or two of the bondings being released but not two years down the line, this just show how incompetent and lazy cryptic are, instead of making new better content and buffing other runestones they would rather just nerf stuff even stuff that you paid for with real money.
they have reached the limit of there very poor game engine and just looking to milk people for what they can now
May not have been as active on forums, but have seen a lot of nerfs and other stuff over my time of playing this game. I am now a guild leader of a lvl 20 guild and it's sad to hear and see how frustrated people are and want to leave the game and I do understand them. They just can't take it anymore. Nerf after nerf after nerf. People have had enough, a lot of us saw through mod 6 or some returned later, just to see you destroy the game again.
Now for the ranting: You gotta be kidding me. Just bring the other runestones in line with this one. There is only like a small elite group that can pull out massive amounts of power through this. By doing this u are not killing them of but all the lower IL players, that won't be able to do all content and if you are thinking that they'll then pay to get their enchantments and enhancements up, think again. Everyone with just a bit of brainactivity will soon realize how much it'll cost. You have 2 enhancements. To get those to unparalleled you need 10 Ultimate potencys each, you have 24 enchantment slots in bis gear also counting 2-slotted companion gear and 3 runestones. That's 27 enchantments that all need 3 ultimate marks each. That's 101 ultimate marks and from what i hear is 125k each without VIP, so astonishing 12,5 million AD just for those marks. Then comes the next problem the superior enchantment stones! Can only be obtained in chult dungeon...! Not everyone can run that dungeon. With the bonding nerf, it'll be even less that can complete it, so they'll corner the market on the stones and set the price...God job...NOT!
Something to think about: Never players may stick around to level 70, but will then realize what's in store for them and you'll already have most of the older players gone. You know those players that have used to speak highly of this game. The once who help test stuff on preview. The once who have been here through a lot and probably are the once that sustain your business ( Yes I compare u to a country that lives off of tourists but when during downtime, it's the locals that sustain business. The same goes for you ).
If the issue is money then players here have provided more than enough good ideas over the time. I'll just mention a couple but there are hundreds, if not thousands of ideas. Fashion, fashion closet, legendary mounts in zen store, that are not completely in line with lockbox ones and personalized GH rooms with decorations.
My own thought: I've put quite a bit of thought into this and am actually hoping that this is the case ( yes the conspiracy theory mind I have does this sometimes ).
When the last mod hit, you where asked why not increase the level of the mobs and you said something about it not being possible because of the scaling in level of monsters. Had you increased it to 74, we wouldn't be able to kill them or something like this. Can't remember it completely, nor find the forums post. Is that in fact why you are increasing the enchantments, enhancements? It still doesn't explain why the bondings needs to be toned down... I've seen on the guild view, when hovering over the buildings, that it already says GH 21 requirements, Boon structure 11 requirements and others. So you already made preperations for guild buildings to go up...!? Unless you wanna do the noob move of toning those those down and having us spend more time and money, for something we already have...
Question time!: 1. Are the bondings being nerfed because of so called powercreep, money grab, or toned down before scaling of monster level. If it's the first, that wouldn't be a valid point, since you are increasing enchantments and enhancement and bonding upgrade will land us at the same spot we are now almost. 2. Will boons get nerfed or increased in the near future and why one or the other? and final one (may be a bit provocative to some but I think it's food for thoughts. 3. If you pull through with this as a monet grab or just don't reply a valid answer to your playerbase, are there good job opportunities in game designing ( because then you'll need that ).
I seriously hope you will start replying to your community because I am already seeing people leave in numbers and it better not be...We will lot into it, we'll see what can be done or we can't answer that because... Now you need to start giving a solid honest reply and do something or you will have a game, but no players and therefore, no job in the end and that may come sooner than you think from the feedback i'm getting inside my guild and outside in the player community.
Best regards Nighthaven, guild leader of Limitless.
@mirraidar Exactly. If power creep isn't an issue (and according to @noworries#8859 - it isn't), just buff up other runes. If you want balance between the 2, and see people use BOTH? Make augments give 100% at green, 200% at blue, 300% at purple, and say 350% on orange. It gives more, so it's better for solo content compared to bondings, but it's worse for party content and people will use bondings. That will make people use BONDINGS FOR GROUPS, AUGMENTS FOR SOLO. People who can afford both will use both, but not everyone can. That means both bondings and augments will be viable. It's kinda sad that I, some random idiot thought of that and you, the devs, didn't. The way you make both viable is by making one better in one scenario, and the other in another. That's why people use BOTH lightning for AoE and Dread/holy avenger/vorpal for single target.
You see, @noworries#8859 and @nitocris83THAT is how you bring them in line. I'm not trying to call anyone out on this but you two are the only ones actually ever responding to this thread out of all the devs.
> @oria1 said: > To add another prospective. We can understand that players will choose the the way that brings them the most benefits. That's a given tho what really is a "benefit" may vary. We also know, since the dev said it that the bondings aren't nerfed due to excessive stat share. So the change is not about bonding being overpowered. Good so far. > > So in the spirit of balance and if the % of stat points they offer isn't a problem but the problem is the relative utility and stat difference between bonding and others, what exactly is the problem of bringing the other enchants "up" and make more viable options for the players, or more interesting combos like the ones we saw proposed by other players. > > Why shouldn't all ruins offer similar behavior and stats and why lower bondings % when there isn't a problem with what the bonding offers in the first place. Why shouldn't every ruin offer % stat share? Arcane can offer stat share % and recovery, Eldritch can offer stat share % and armor pen and so on and let the people choose the stat they need? Every ruin now is equally useful and people will use them based on their class/build/need (though I think we all know the real answer). > > I would understand as per devs example that its not a good idea when we have a "buff/item" that high and others down low to increase the others, but clearly (and once again) as stated by the devs, the "high" is not the problem or an issue in the case of bonding. > > Unless.... that's not the real reason
Ok, so First : the devs just said that powercreep due to bonding giving power to companions and then re-injecting it manifold into the other players is NOT the issue - Check
(Please buff the other runestones if you want to bring them inline. There are a LOT of good ideas to do so if you scroll above my message.)
Second : the dev says that nerfing the bonding runestone is occuring now because they had to do that BEFORE the new refinement system, and that's why they bring this in a single bundle of changes. Also, they bring at the SAME TIME the random queue system for daily AD. (And they didnt talk about it in the same announcement, it was a bit less publicised)
If i understood well what other ppl and mods have said, this new queue system is supposed to help the public queue group system work well and fast EVEN when there are LESS players around because it will greatly enhance the matching capabilities.
Maybe i'm just paranoiac but, don't you guys see some kind of a global scheme here ?
I mean they try to enforce changes that will trigger and exodus, eve, after 30 pages a players saying "No/Warning", and on the other and, they have already preppared themselves to take the brunt of an exodus.
My feeling about this ? They totally know the exodus will happen, but they don't care because it's part or their plan : They crush the 50% top players, hope for new player to replace them. Then they milk all the money they can out of those new players until those players can't stand it anymore, Rince and repeat. New player, new cows to milk, Kill the cow, bring up the new cows. That's their business model. They treat their customers like cattle.
"Then comes the next problem the superior enchantment stones! Can only be obtained in chult dungeon...! Not everyone can run that dungeon.
I think its worth noting that someone in a rank 20 guild makes this observation. That is someone who has access to the highest levels of boons, and most likely a fairly large player base from his guild and/or alliance. No shade being thrown here at all.. just noting that even someone at very high levels whose actually playing this game can see the wrench this is throwing into people's gameplay.
To be completely honest here, I recently got a job just to fund my hobbies. This was definitely one of 'em, and I was willing to spend about 100-150€ a month, as I am now able to. But now, that money will instead go into buying other games, possibly go into fueling my coffee and chocolate addiction a bit more. Because this is what happens when you just outright don't respect your customers. For bondings you PAY a lot, why would something that you PAY for be about the same as something you can just randomly get in a box that costs 50k AD (the comp pack). You're not making any sense.
Anyways, my suggestion that augments on green should have 100% and with every rank up it gains 100% (including legendary, instead of the legendary bonus), so at the end it gives 400% stats for example, and people would use that A LOT because it's 400%, but only in solo content. In group content it would be HAMSTER. And people would 1st get bondings ofc, get them to a certain point (r10-11) and then go for augment because augments would be great. You DO NOT nerf stuff.
Nerf our HAMSTER weapons if you want them to be "in line" with content released literally 2 years ago. Make our Relic weapons "in line" with golden dragon ones if you care about it so much.... bah.
So @noworries#8859 says this is about the balance of player stats, not a reduction.
In light of this I did a bit of calculating to work out where we get our stats from and came up with the following:
(Calculated at BiS) Companion & bondings : 21.08% Legendary comp bonus + active bonus : 6.54% Mounts (inc bonuses & insignias) : 12.94% Gear on Character : 34.97% Boons (appx for conditional effects) : 24.47%
After the change, bondings will go to 15.44%
Once players get all rank 14s the impact will be: Gear on Character : 38.56 Companion & bondings : 16.97%
As you can see, the stat distribution change from bondings is not huge: 21.08% currently to 16.97% eventually. That's a 4.11% change where bonded companions maintain their 3rd place as a player stat source.
The impact on player ability is noticeable but the real question is:
"is such a relatively small stat redistribution worth the expected impact on players?". And of course the financial impact it will have on Cryptic - here I refer to the loss of customer trust and the net income value that such trust carries.
Please Do Not Feed The Trolls
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
All that these changings bring to the game are negative - and lessen the games content for the normal players
At present most teams cannot complete (myself included) the higher dungeons with full R12's - with all of the changes being pushed through the areas of the game that I can play will be even more restricted, with zero chance of upgrading because upgrades will be locked behind content I cannot play. Limited chances to earn AD, because AD will be locked behind random q's linked to content I cannot do.
So for normal players we have another MOD that effectively removes content from the game
Where exactly is my incentive to spend some money on this game?
I know I am talking to myself because regardless of how many people say that don't want these changes you will do them anyway, I just really hope you have something positive to bring out soon to give players a reason to actually play this game - at the moment you are just sucking out the fun/enjoyment one receives from this game
I think I just figured out a solution. Far from a win/win situation, but as close to almostwin/almostwin one as possible – at least in my opinion:D Yeah I am aware that some of players and all of devs gona hate me for that, but lets go.
Fellow players - we cant win with the devs. Not before proposed changes gona hit live servers. Stright after we can do that very simple by closing our wallets, but even then, its gona be pyrrhic victory. Damage done to game playerbase would be to severe already, quitters wont come back, . Its gona be loose/loose situation. Devs wont have money they wanted to grab, as game simply colapses, and we gona loose our game.
So, dear Devs – you say you want our money right? Sure you do. I cant even blame you for that – every one of us would like to have more money. But this time, We – Nevewrinter Players – wont let you simply try to grab/stole it from us. Most of us will choose to quit - really. So what if this time you try to EARN it instead of try to steal it?. Yeah, I know sounds panifull, all that job behind it, all that I musts and so on, but you want our money or not?
I am no joking as players frustration level is higher then ever before. And just imagin how its gona rise when your changes hit live server whre lot of players are no preview/forum users.
If the answer is yes (you arent stupid right?) then there is a way out of that mess you trying to make.
Step back a bit, and players will do the same.
New ranks for enchantments – sure. You will always find players who would spend a lot of real money to be BIS in first day of a patch. Human nature – you know . Rest of us gona have a new goal to achieve, and we gona need tons of AD on that too – just not that fast , and dont gate the legendary marks for upgrade behind a TONG. We already struggled with your RNG trying to get SOMI weapons to legendary level. Simply compare the drop chance with dungeons hardness and you got it. Unless you want rich players who can afford all your changes to be the only one getting them and in same way getting even richer – and no – those wont buy a zen from you – they dont have to.
Bonding nerf? Sure, but make it like this - r12-80% r13 – 85% r 14- 90%. Gona end up at 270% - bit less then now – but hey, hey hey – you can fill this gap with legendary companions. In short that approach gona hurt players less as they will have to upgrade all their stuff anyway, Thats gona bring them to the point they already achieved quite easier, still leaving a goal to upgrade sam more to achieve current level of 5 legendary comapnion plus bit more. That gona tone down players fury.
Upgrade of rest of enchantments to r14 gona cost them a lot anyway. But thats gona be a new goal to achive. They gona be a tiny bit better then they are now, without a filling that they work for something what was simply just taken from them.
BTW - @Devs - Would you like to work if your boss would cut your paycheck 30% living same amount of work or even giving you more? I guess not, but thats exactly what you expect from us.
In the same time DOUBLE – yes DOUBLE the amounts of stats for other runestones you already planned. That solution gona make augments a choice to consider, definietly a new player choice over a bonding, while bondings still gona be better – but for end game choice. That of course with a powersharing fix – if that mythical power creep is really your concerne. (I doubt that, actually at this moment no1 belives in your explanantion). Throw some bug fixes players are asking for ages and thats gona please the community.
Random que – sure do that, But dont take rAD form other ques. Just make this one really worthwile – like double the amount of rADs you already proposed. That gona be interesting – risking for a big hit or not. And if you want, on top of that increase a bit drop rate in them. Yeah I know how it sounds, but if you gona do that honestly it can work. At already proposed version no1, and I really mean no1 gona go for random in fear ending up in weak party on FBI for a peridot drop or more likely quiter mark.
So, dear @devs all I am asking is change your attitude and aproach to your playerbase. We are humans too. We have our feelings as well. And we are smart if you havent already noticed. We like this game, we want it to grow and bring us more fun and challenge. We even spent our money on it. But dont make a mistake – it doesnt mean that we gona politely accepting everything you gona throw on us. Limits are there, and form my observation many of players are close to them since your announcement, some of them sadly, already crossed a quit line. And just in case you belive that new players gona fill the gap for quitters. No they wont. At least not for long. Its not even a bad press stopping them to try this game. And a bad press is what you should expect with what you want to do. Its about math. Your new UMOP costs 150k of AD – about 4 days of rAD grindig if not more after your upgrade. Need any more comment on that? I guess not – new player dont need it either.
All I tried to show with this post is just let you know that you can achive your goals without hurting a player base. Without need to get us angry and quiting. We, the players, are resonable persons too. Its easier to understand – guys we toning bondings a bit to tighteen the gap betwen you and new players, between them and other runestons, while giving you a new goal – rank 14s. We really understand that end game progress should be considerably slower, to keep us busy in compare to newcomers progress. But still it needs to be progress.
At least try to reconsider your ideas accordings to our tips and advices. This discussion alone have a lot of ideas worth considering. But above all else – change your approach to a playerbase. Otherwise – not that I would like to scare you – it seems we gona have NV funeral soon.
@gripnir78 Make it 85% at R12, so by R14 you get everything back if it has to be nerfed. The thing is, 99% of people won't have those items BECAUSE of the greater refinement stone requirements.
Anyways, I stand behind my words. Make Augments increase by 100% with every rank up (green 100%, blue 200%, purple 300%, legendary either 350% or 400%). People WILL debate which one to get 1st. Because they need solo abilities and that's where augment comes into play. But for group content, bondings are the way to go due to ACDCs and Pallies. And there you have it. Perfect balance. No need for this nerf. At ALL.
This reminds me of a key change thread all over again. Déjà vu ...of the Coal removal thread as well....
It is like a Neverending Story .
We, the player base do not want this kind of a nerf / change.
There is plenty of good suggestions in 35 pages of this thread.
35 pages of players, who are here long enough, to understand how things function in game, who tried their best to explain what it would do to the game . In a few days.
I mean , i am not sure with who Devs talk to ,about running TONG as a random dungeon, and that a random 12 k pug party can do it, but obviously someone was giving false informations to the Devs ?
Again, not saying it CAN NOT BE DONE, it can, by people who are here for years and know how to utilize 100 % of their skill.
We the average mortals, need bondings to proc , patience and a lot of fails to do it.
This kind of reactions should show that we are outraged and do not wish to accept this kind of change. Sometimes i get this feeling like we and our input matter.
But i get highly disappointed afterwards, with the inability to even talk to us , while we panic here and plan on leaving the game.
Can someone at least look at our suggestions and maybe suggest them to other Devs. " Look ! This player knows what is up, he suggested this and this and it ACTUALLY MAKES SENSE ! "
Why are you not talking to us like normal, every day people, having a discussion over a cup of tea ? And i do not understand why it is so hard to talk to us.
It is like me trying to talk to Trump and get into the White house to have a cup of coffee with his wife, while shouting on Croatian about world injustice... i have that feeling every time we get an answer .
We are all human... and make mistakes, and have our jobs , kids and cars and parents, friends and dogs and cats and freaking hamsters.
We all get up in the morning , eat, go to work and do what we must, we love our job or not, we have our hobbies , take care of our families and we all try to live as best as possible.
If we can try to appreciate what you do. Then heck we do expect that kind of treatment back. Normal human conversation.
@gripnir78 Make it 85% at R12, so by R14 you get everything back if it has to be nerfed. The thing is, 99% of people won't have those items BECAUSE of the greater refinement stone requirements.
Anyways, I stand behind my words. Make Augments increase by 100% with every rank up (green 100%, blue 200%, purple 300%, legendary either 350% or 400%). People WILL debate which one to get 1st. Because they need solo abilities and that's where augment comes into play. But for group content, bondings are the way to go due to ACDCs and Pallies. And there you have it. Perfect balance. No need for this nerf. At ALL.
Sure it should be 85% r12 - but, if @devs dont care about our opinions (highly likely - they dont) it wont work, but if there is at least a tiny chance they do hear, and want to at least try to make some corrections to what they are planning we should ask less then we need and frankly deserve. Like I said we are on their mercy until patch hit live servers. At this point all we can do is asking. Therefore my suggestion is far form players expectation, but still better then @devs offer. After the patch we gona judge their work/attitude, all of it, with our wallets. Atm it seems that @devs should start to looking for a new jobs, as they seems forgetting that WE are paying their bills.
Off topic - I am experienced player, but never seen such amounts of pitchforks and torches ready to use.
The thing is, none of the previous changes (LM set, gateway, coal wards etc) have affected people's paid thing. But this is like buying a car, and everyone likes it - something like the VW Golf of the game, and then, the manufacturer realized that it's performing too well for their future car sales (aka profits) and they decided to rip out a few seats and the steering wheel or something. It's just bad business.
The thing is, none of the previous changes (LM set, gateway, coal wards etc) have affected people's paid thing. But this is like buying a car, and everyone likes it - something like the VW Golf of the game, and then, the manufacturer realized that it's performing too well for their future car sales (aka profits) and they decided to rip out a few seats and the steering wheel or something. It's just bad business.
True that,but this time its like manufacturer some time after your purchase would visit you, took all wheels with use of the force and going away shouted - If you wont them back you need to buy a new car from us - we gona attach your missing wheels to it.
@gripnir78 Make it 85% at R12, so by R14 you get everything back if it has to be nerfed. The thing is, 99% of people won't have those items BECAUSE of the greater refinement stone requirements.
Anyways, I stand behind my words. Make Augments increase by 100% with every rank up (green 100%, blue 200%, purple 300%, legendary either 350% or 400%). People WILL debate which one to get 1st. Because they need solo abilities and that's where augment comes into play. But for group content, bondings are the way to go due to ACDCs and Pallies. And there you have it. Perfect balance. No need for this nerf. At ALL.
how about don't change anything from how it is right now. and just don't add any more percentage stats per level 13 and 14 add something else.
@gripnir78 Make it 85% at R12, so by R14 you get everything back if it has to be nerfed. The thing is, 99% of people won't have those items BECAUSE of the greater refinement stone requirements.
Anyways, I stand behind my words. Make Augments increase by 100% with every rank up (green 100%, blue 200%, purple 300%, legendary either 350% or 400%). People WILL debate which one to get 1st. Because they need solo abilities and that's where augment comes into play. But for group content, bondings are the way to go due to ACDCs and Pallies. And there you have it. Perfect balance. No need for this nerf. At ALL.
how about don't change anything from how it is right now. and just don't add any more percentage stats per level 13 and 14 add something else.
Or just make a realm-wide proclamation, that (now) a mighty Deity hates Bonding Stones, and have put a curse on them, never allowing them to go beyond rank 12, forever keeping them stuck in their progress!!! (insert evil laughter)
Comments
> > @tekathurrai said:
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> > So I'm a newer player. Played for about 3 months now. I have 3x rank 9 bonding runestones on my Fire Archon. I'm personally not all that affected by the nerf because
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> > a) I haven't put THAT much money into them, yet
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> > b) the percentage of the buff isn't affected a lot at my current rank. Something like -5% I think?
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> > After reading the forums for the last few days or so (this is the most I've ever interacted with a forum - anywhere - ever) I noticed a few things
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> > 1) the 50% uptime was a huge problem...but that was fixed
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> > 2) the huge percentage drop...not fixed
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> > 3) the cost to get 12 to 14 seemed to demotivate players and seemed almost pointless, forcing some players to leave the game before investing more.
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> > For 2) as others have mentioned, you could bring up the bondings percentage more (not to it's current live percentage, as the nerf is understandable to an extent) and make the other runestones better than what they're currently slated for
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> > As for 3) weighing probably more than 2) in my opinion, the simple solution would be to create a vendor in PE for a limited time. This vendor would use the bonding runestones rank 12 and 12 only as currency to buy the rank 14 bondings. It would also have the other runestones at rank 14 for purchase in case some people wanted to move away from bonding (better to have and not want than want and not have). And maybe have a total transaction limit of 3 so as to at least bring main toons but to their top again.
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> > This is just a noob player coming with an idea as a part of this "feedback" thread.
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> > I won't even get started on the owlbear cub nerf that I saw on preview that is no where mentioned by the devs, but dropped my Owlbear Cub-oriented Templock DPS by 44% or so effectively making my build/class/character completely useless now in dungeons...........I was almost tempted to leave the game as I downloaded another MMO yesterday, but I am sticking with it for a little longer to see what happens.
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> > Let me know what you fellow players think. Maybe my idea of the vendor would break something else?
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> can you or anybody else explain what makes the nerf understandable? it's being said by the devs that it's to bring them in line with other runes, what does that mean exactly? if everything as it is now goes through, rank 12 eldritch x3 or rank 12 bond x3 are still too weak to complete tier 3 for the average player. especially players of certain classes like yourself that had a build set up that also got a stealth nerf(owlbear templock). for the near or at bis players, its a nerf that is an annoyance. they could still do tier 3 but it's still a resale for them, which is unnacceptable.
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> the only way I would accept a nerf if there is a vendor to trade my 3x12 in for 3x14 that are at 285% in total, but I dont want that type of thing to happen, it's extremely selfish and unforgiving to everybody else still. players who are just getting rank 10 or 11, what about them? it's just not right. I want to do something fair for everybody.
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> I can see where they are saying that it is too powerful. I can understand it. I can see why they want to bring it down to make things a "tad" harder, for that good challenge. Bringing UP runestones is an option, but again, I think that shouldn't be the sole option. I think it would be acceptable to have rank 14 bondings at 75% so 225% total, which is 60% drop from live. And bring up runestones so they are a bit more comparable. I can see why devs want them in line, because its true, why run anything other than bonding? Why even have runestones in the game at that point.
the thing is, the dev just clarified that it's not to make content harder(content that was built in mind with using bondings mind you), it's that they want bondings more in line with other runestones...how can you even say bondings are too powerful if you've never even used rank 12s?
here's an interesting fact I haven't seen mentioned yet, by a dev or mod on here that is claiming bondings are so far out of line that it has become a problem, claiming other runestones as is are becoming underutilized. there are 21(22 with TONG) current epic dungeons, trials, and skirmishes. how many of them are built around bondings? 5, including TONG...how many have and can be done without even one bonding of any rank? in my personal experience, 17. now where in the world can anybody gain the notion that other runestones, as is, are useless, when in virtually 3/4 of end game(as in 60+ level) content, investing in them is not even important?
if anything, bondings are simply just end game as is, mainly for dps characters at that. I've been in a few groups with the tank running eldritch/empowered in fbi and completed it, though pretty rare. bumping them and other runestones wouldn't be bad at all, but the nerf can't be justified by any means that have been brought forth, despite it looking inevitable to happen.
> Bonding runestones were not adjusted due to power creep. They were adjusted due to being so far out of line with the rest of runestones/companions. It was something on our radar for a long time, and where it may have been easier to accept if it had happened sooner, it still needed to happen.
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> The refinement changes were something we already had plans for and were working on. With that coming down the line, we knew that any changes to bonding runestones needed to happen before players started investing in T13 and T14 bonding runestones and that is why these changes are all bundled together.
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> At this point we are still going forward with the bonding runestones as they are now. We realize there are other issues in the game and those are all things to be looked at independently of this. Bonding runestones do need to be brought closer in line with the rest of the companion system, and these changes still leave them out in front as the most powerful choice for most players.
biggest load of utter rubbish I've ever heard, once we get all our enchants get back to rank 14 we will be back to where we are now which will fix nothing, do you take us all for fools and mugs this is a simple cash grab
Do you want to deal more damage ? raise your hp.
DId you lose your power with the nerf on bondings?? Dont worry power share is still here and nothing changes)
it seems that we were getting close with dungeons like MSP and To9G.
and why are you nerfing bondings only to increase the strength of other enchantments? to force us to change once again?
im sure its to spread the strength around..so its not all dependent on bondings. yet, i feel compelled to point out once again how we lived with it this long, why now? why, when bringing other things up to their level could have been built into future mods along with more difficult content. As mods are introduced, one expect players, gear, and enchantments to eventually have higher levels.
In your quest to give players other options, you are chasing a pot of gold because something will always be "the best" and thats what players will work towards (especially if you keep simplifying everything because you are worried its too complicated). ^^ This sums it up! They may have an awesome grand plan of perfect nirvana and balance way down the line but that doesn't change, or excuse, the fact that they took something from us and are repackaging it and giving us the "opportunity" to buy it back.
At this point we are still going forward with the bonding runestones as they are now. We realize there are other issues in the game and those are all things to be looked at independently of this. Bonding runestones do need to be brought closer in line with the rest of the companion system, and these changes still leave them out in front as the most powerful choice for most players.34 pages of near universal condemnation, alternatives, and pleading from the player base and the long anticipated response is.. "At this point we're still going forward." Nice. /s
'It still needed to happen.' No, it didn't. It doesn't interfere with our ability to play your game. It has been and IS (up till this announcement) a goal that players could work toward and see some reward for their efforts. A new player coming into this game could have some distantly achievable reference point that they could build their characters on. There are inumerable other things that one can continue to spend on and improve even after the high achievment of rank 12 bondings. Rank 12 anything in this game is difficult to achieve, taking vast amounts of time and/or money.
Few are the companies that get to sell you a product and then come back later to retroactively criplle that product for their own gain. Fewer still are the customers that will appreciate the effort.
This was NOT needed, and not requested. That you state this was on your radar for a long time makes this even WORSE. This company dropped bonding runestones from the Simril even like it was raining in runestone monsoon season. Multiple refine and zen sales events have gone by where refinement materials and RP were sold while bonding runestones were actively being sold on the AH and sold with companions. All this time you were raking in these dollars you were apparently also working out the details of how/when to nerf them for us without warning? Yea thats not so cool either.
I had some apparently misplaced hope that Devs would see the barnfire they started and come back this week to see the folly i this. Perhaps they would see that people actually had a financial AND emotional investment in these things and that it would be better to seek other solutions. I knew historically that that was a slim chance. With that however we could have worked with our friends and guildies to calm fears, and maybe stop this exodus that we're seeing from our friends list.
Sadly.. all they did is charge ahead. Im sad for the game. Im sad for my guild and my friends. Let the search for the next place, one that appreciates their customers, begin.
meh.
I run in a guild with plenty of folks who have BiS builds and many have spent boatloads on them. r12 bondings on BiS pets. Still, go fight Drufi at the end of FBI without the glitch. It's hit or miss. MSPC ? Same thing. Even with r12 bondings you better bring a bunch of scrolls. (more money for ARC.).
My point is, they make the content harder and harder, they make the builds weaker. When they accidentally do something right, given time, they will un-do it. I guarantee you they sit around in conference rooms with some marketing fleeb brainstorming how to force BiS players to buy more ZEN. I guarantee you the nerf to Bondings comes before they fix Hati's AOE damage, or make AA work like it's supposed to, or fix Storvald in MSVA.
It's pretty simple. You charge money for ZEN and people actually BUY this stuff. Not too long ago before all this pontification ruined the market prices, a Fire Arch, an Air Archon, and three R12 Bondings would set you back 9-10mil AD...depending on the exchange prices that alone would set you back 300-400$.
Let's put that in context. Let's say AT&T sold you a UNLIMITED data plan for 400$. 3 months later they decide... oh that's too powerful we're nerfing it to 3gig just because...AND we're dropping you from LTE down to GSM..For no real reason. We just like 'balancing' things.
Arc has demonstrated to a lot of top spending MMO players that they need to find a new game. Message received loud and clear. There are players who are willing to spend money to maintain top tier toons, but we know what it feels like to be extorted. It feels like THIS.
> You guys keep Saying the same thing "we'll have the same amount of stats with r14 enchants", this nerf was not to address the big amount of stats a player can get, it was to address the capacity of bondings when compared to other runestones. Powercreep by all the things, specially power share should be addressed? Yes. Is this rework to address that ? No.
the capacity of the bondings is only 3 epic dungeons and 2 trials more than other runestones out of the 22 total in comparison. why is it that nearly the entire span of this game plus those 17 pieces of epic content are done easily without 1 bonding runestone if bonding runestones are too far out of line? it has nothing to do with power creep or powershare, it's also not about BIS speed farms, so where is the explanation for that?
Give up on this. Work on the things that you actually have been asked to that makes all our lives better. Its ok, we'll think 10x better of you if you did, than if you just stubbornly cling to an idea just because you've had it for a long time.
So in the spirit of balance and if the % of stat points they offer isn't a problem but the problem is the relative utility and stat difference between bonding and others, what exactly is the problem of bringing the other enchants "up" and make more viable options for the players, or more interesting combos like the ones we saw proposed by other players.
Why shouldn't all ruins offer similar behavior and stats and why lower bondings % when there isn't a problem with what the bonding offers in the first place. Why shouldn't every ruin offer % stat share? Arcane can offer stat share % and recovery, Eldritch can offer stat share % and armor pen and so on and let the people choose the stat they need? Every ruin now is equally useful and people will use them based on their class/build/need (though I think we all know the real answer).
I would understand as per devs example that its not a good idea when we have a "buff/item" that high and others down low to increase the others, but clearly (and once again) as stated by the devs, the "high" is not the problem or an issue in the case of bonding.
Unless.... that's not the real reason
> You guys keep Saying the same thing "we'll have the same amount of stats with r14 enchants", this nerf was not to address the big amount of stats a player can get, it was to address the capacity of bondings when compared to other runestones. Powercreep by all the things, specially power share should be addressed? Yes. Is this rework to address that ? No.
but with rank 14 bondings and enchants we will be back to where we are now with bondings still being the best so how does this fix anything? no one will be using an augment so the only thing this nerf will do is make people spend more money, it's a cash grab and everyone sees it,
I can understand a nerf after a month or two of the bondings being released but not two years down the line, this just show how incompetent and lazy cryptic are, instead of making new better content and buffing other runestones they would rather just nerf stuff even stuff that you paid for with real money.
they have reached the limit of there very poor game engine and just looking to milk people for what they can now
May not have been as active on forums, but have seen a lot of nerfs and other stuff over my time of playing this game. I am now a guild leader of a lvl 20 guild and it's sad to hear and see how frustrated people are and want to leave the game and I do understand them. They just can't take it anymore. Nerf after nerf after nerf. People have had enough, a lot of us saw through mod 6 or some returned later, just to see you destroy the game again.
Now for the ranting:
You gotta be kidding me. Just bring the other runestones in line with this one. There is only like a small elite group that can pull out massive amounts of power through this. By doing this u are not killing them of but all the lower IL players, that won't be able to do all content and if you are thinking that they'll then pay to get their enchantments and enhancements up, think again. Everyone with just a bit of brainactivity will soon realize how much it'll cost. You have 2 enhancements. To get those to unparalleled you need 10 Ultimate potencys each, you have 24 enchantment slots in bis gear also counting 2-slotted companion gear and 3 runestones. That's 27 enchantments that all need 3 ultimate marks each. That's 101 ultimate marks and from what i hear is 125k each without VIP, so astonishing 12,5 million AD just for those marks. Then comes the next problem the superior enchantment stones! Can only be obtained in chult dungeon...! Not everyone can run that dungeon. With the bonding nerf, it'll be even less that can complete it, so they'll corner the market on the stones and set the price...God job...NOT!
Something to think about:
Never players may stick around to level 70, but will then realize what's in store for them and you'll already have most of the older players gone. You know those players that have used to speak highly of this game. The once who help test stuff on preview. The once who have been here through a lot and probably are the once that sustain your business ( Yes I compare u to a country that lives off of tourists but when during downtime, it's the locals that sustain business. The same goes for you ).
If the issue is money then players here have provided more than enough good ideas over the time. I'll just mention a couple but there are hundreds, if not thousands of ideas. Fashion, fashion closet, legendary mounts in zen store, that are not completely in line with lockbox ones and personalized GH rooms with decorations.
My own thought:
I've put quite a bit of thought into this and am actually hoping that this is the case ( yes the conspiracy theory mind I have does this sometimes ).
When the last mod hit, you where asked why not increase the level of the mobs and you said something about it not being possible because of the scaling in level of monsters. Had you increased it to 74, we wouldn't be able to kill them or something like this. Can't remember it completely, nor find the forums post. Is that in fact why you are increasing the enchantments, enhancements? It still doesn't explain why the bondings needs to be toned down... I've seen on the guild view, when hovering over the buildings, that it already says GH 21 requirements, Boon structure 11 requirements and others. So you already made preperations for guild buildings to go up...!? Unless you wanna do the noob move of toning those those down and having us spend more time and money, for something we already have...
Question time!:
1. Are the bondings being nerfed because of so called powercreep, money grab, or toned down before scaling of monster level. If it's the first, that wouldn't be a valid point, since you are increasing enchantments and enhancement and bonding upgrade will land us at the same spot we are now almost.
2. Will boons get nerfed or increased in the near future and why one or the other?
and final one (may be a bit provocative to some but I think it's food for thoughts.
3. If you pull through with this as a monet grab or just don't reply a valid answer to your playerbase, are there good job opportunities in game designing ( because then you'll need that ).
I seriously hope you will start replying to your community because I am already seeing people leave in numbers and it better not be...We will lot into it, we'll see what can be done or we can't answer that because... Now you need to start giving a solid honest reply and do something or you will have a game, but no players and therefore, no job in the end and that may come sooner than you think from the feedback i'm getting inside my guild and outside in the player community.
Best regards
Nighthaven, guild leader of Limitless.
Exactly. If power creep isn't an issue (and according to @noworries#8859 - it isn't), just buff up other runes.
If you want balance between the 2, and see people use BOTH? Make augments give 100% at green, 200% at blue, 300% at purple, and say 350% on orange. It gives more, so it's better for solo content compared to bondings, but it's worse for party content and people will use bondings. That will make people use BONDINGS FOR GROUPS, AUGMENTS FOR SOLO. People who can afford both will use both, but not everyone can. That means both bondings and augments will be viable. It's kinda sad that I, some random idiot thought of that and you, the devs, didn't.
The way you make both viable is by making one better in one scenario, and the other in another. That's why people use BOTH lightning for AoE and Dread/holy avenger/vorpal for single target.
You see, @noworries#8859 and @nitocris83 THAT is how you bring them in line. I'm not trying to call anyone out on this but you two are the only ones actually ever responding to this thread out of all the devs.
> To add another prospective. We can understand that players will choose the the way that brings them the most benefits. That's a given tho what really is a "benefit" may vary. We also know, since the dev said it that the bondings aren't nerfed due to excessive stat share. So the change is not about bonding being overpowered. Good so far.
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> So in the spirit of balance and if the % of stat points they offer isn't a problem but the problem is the relative utility and stat difference between bonding and others, what exactly is the problem of bringing the other enchants "up" and make more viable options for the players, or more interesting combos like the ones we saw proposed by other players.
>
> Why shouldn't all ruins offer similar behavior and stats and why lower bondings % when there isn't a problem with what the bonding offers in the first place. Why shouldn't every ruin offer % stat share? Arcane can offer stat share % and recovery, Eldritch can offer stat share % and armor pen and so on and let the people choose the stat they need? Every ruin now is equally useful and people will use them based on their class/build/need (though I think we all know the real answer).
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> I would understand as per devs example that its not a good idea when we have a "buff/item" that high and others down low to increase the others, but clearly (and once again) as stated by the devs, the "high" is not the problem or an issue in the case of bonding.
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> Unless.... that's not the real reason
would love a dev to answer this one
(Please buff the other runestones if you want to bring them inline. There are a LOT of good ideas to do so if you scroll above my message.)
Second : the dev says that nerfing the bonding runestone is occuring now because they had to do that BEFORE the new refinement system, and that's why they bring this in a single bundle of changes. Also, they bring at the SAME TIME the random queue system for daily AD. (And they didnt talk about it in the same announcement, it was a bit less publicised)
If i understood well what other ppl and mods have said, this new queue system is supposed to help the public queue group system work well and fast EVEN when there are LESS players around because it will greatly enhance the matching capabilities.
Maybe i'm just paranoiac but, don't you guys see some kind of a global scheme here ?
I mean they try to enforce changes that will trigger and exodus, eve, after 30 pages a players saying "No/Warning", and on the other and, they have already preppared themselves to take the brunt of an exodus.
My feeling about this ? They totally know the exodus will happen, but they don't care because it's part or their plan : They crush the 50% top players, hope for new player to replace them. Then they milk all the money they can out of those new players until those players can't stand it anymore, Rince and repeat. New player, new cows to milk, Kill the cow, bring up the new cows. That's their business model. They treat their customers like cattle.
"Then comes the next problem the superior enchantment stones! Can only be obtained in chult dungeon...! Not everyone can run that dungeon.I think its worth noting that someone in a rank 20 guild makes this observation. That is someone who has access to the highest levels of boons, and most likely a fairly large player base from his guild and/or alliance. No shade being thrown here at all.. just noting that even someone at very high levels whose actually playing this game can see the wrench this is throwing into people's gameplay.
For bondings you PAY a lot, why would something that you PAY for be about the same as something you can just randomly get in a box that costs 50k AD (the comp pack). You're not making any sense.
Anyways, my suggestion that augments on green should have 100% and with every rank up it gains 100% (including legendary, instead of the legendary bonus), so at the end it gives 400% stats for example, and people would use that A LOT because it's 400%, but only in solo content. In group content it would be HAMSTER. And people would 1st get bondings ofc, get them to a certain point (r10-11) and then go for augment because augments would be great. You DO NOT nerf stuff.
Nerf our HAMSTER weapons if you want them to be "in line" with content released literally 2 years ago. Make our Relic weapons "in line" with golden dragon ones if you care about it so much.... bah.
It was said " they are going forward " ...
idk what to tell you.. i do not even have any motivation to get online this days...
Only my guildies are keeping me still around. They are amazing.
In light of this I did a bit of calculating to work out where we get our stats from and came up with the following:
(Calculated at BiS)
Companion & bondings : 21.08%
Legendary comp bonus + active bonus : 6.54%
Mounts (inc bonuses & insignias) : 12.94%
Gear on Character : 34.97%
Boons (appx for conditional effects) : 24.47%
After the change, bondings will go to 15.44%
Once players get all rank 14s the impact will be:
Gear on Character : 38.56
Companion & bondings : 16.97%
As you can see, the stat distribution change from bondings is not huge: 21.08% currently to 16.97% eventually. That's a 4.11% change where bonded companions maintain their 3rd place as a player stat source.
The impact on player ability is noticeable but the real question is:
"is such a relatively small stat redistribution worth the expected impact on players?". And of course the financial impact it will have on Cryptic - here I refer to the loss of customer trust and the net income value that such trust carries.
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
At present most teams cannot complete (myself included) the higher dungeons with full R12's - with all of the changes being pushed through the areas of the game that I can play will be even more restricted, with zero chance of upgrading because upgrades will be locked behind content I cannot play. Limited chances to earn AD, because AD will be locked behind random q's linked to content I cannot do.
So for normal players we have another MOD that effectively removes content from the game
Where exactly is my incentive to spend some money on this game?
I know I am talking to myself because regardless of how many people say that don't want these changes you will do them anyway, I just really hope you have something positive to bring out soon to give players a reason to actually play this game - at the moment you are just sucking out the fun/enjoyment one receives from this game
Guys, @Devs
I think I just figured out a solution. Far from a win/win situation, but as close to
almostwin/almostwin one as possible – at least in my opinion:D
Yeah I am aware that some of players and all of devs gona hate me for that, but lets go.
Fellow players - we cant win with the devs. Not before proposed changes gona hit live servers. Stright after we can do that very simple by closing our wallets, but even then, its gona be pyrrhic victory. Damage done to game playerbase would be to severe already, quitters wont come back, . Its gona be loose/loose situation. Devs wont have money they wanted to grab, as game simply colapses, and we gona loose our game.
So, dear Devs – you say you want our money right? Sure you do. I cant even blame you for that – every one of us would like to have more money. But this time, We – Nevewrinter Players – wont let you simply try to grab/stole it from us. Most of us will choose to quit - really. So what if this time you try to EARN it instead of try to steal it?. Yeah, I know sounds panifull, all that job behind it, all that I musts and so on, but you want our money or not?
I am no joking as players frustration level is higher then ever before. And just imagin how its gona rise when your changes hit live server whre lot of players are no preview/forum users.
If the answer is yes (you arent stupid right?) then there is a way out of that mess you trying to make.
Step back a bit, and players will do the same.
New ranks for enchantments – sure. You will always find players who would spend a lot of real money to be BIS in first day of a patch. Human nature – you know
Bonding nerf? Sure, but make it like this - r12-80% r13 – 85% r 14- 90%. Gona end up at 270% - bit less then now – but hey, hey hey – you can fill this gap with legendary companions. In short that approach gona hurt players less as they will have to upgrade all their stuff anyway, Thats gona bring them to the point they already achieved quite easier, still leaving a goal to upgrade sam more to achieve current level of 5 legendary comapnion plus bit more. That gona tone down players fury.
Upgrade of rest of enchantments to r14 gona cost them a lot anyway. But thats gona be a new goal to achive. They gona be a tiny bit better then they are now, without a filling that they work for something what was simply just taken from them.
BTW - @Devs - Would you like to work if your boss would cut your paycheck 30% living same amount of work or even giving you more? I guess not, but thats exactly what you expect from us.
In the same time DOUBLE – yes DOUBLE the amounts of stats for other runestones you already planned. That solution gona make augments a choice to consider, definietly a new player choice over a bonding, while bondings still gona be better – but for end game choice.
That of course with a powersharing fix – if that mythical power creep is really your concerne.
(I doubt that, actually at this moment no1 belives in your explanantion). Throw some bug fixes players are asking for ages and thats gona please the community.
Random que – sure do that, But dont take rAD form other ques. Just make this one really worthwile – like double the amount of rADs you already proposed. That gona be interesting – risking for a big hit or not. And if you want, on top of that increase a bit drop rate in them. Yeah I know how it sounds, but if you gona do that honestly it can work. At already proposed version no1, and I really mean no1 gona go for random in fear ending up in weak party on FBI for a peridot drop or more likely quiter mark.
So, dear @devs all I am asking is change your attitude and aproach to your playerbase. We are humans too. We have our feelings as well. And we are smart if you havent already noticed.
We like this game, we want it to grow and bring us more fun and challenge. We even spent our money on it. But dont make a mistake – it doesnt mean that we gona politely accepting everything you gona throw on us. Limits are there, and form my observation many of players are close to them since your announcement, some of them sadly, already crossed a quit line. And just in case you belive that new players gona fill the gap for quitters. No they wont. At least not for long. Its not even a bad press stopping them to try this game. And a bad press is what you should expect with what you want to do. Its about math. Your new UMOP costs 150k of AD – about 4 days of rAD grindig if not more after your upgrade. Need any more comment on that? I guess not – new player dont need it either.
All I tried to show with this post is just let you know that you can achive your goals without hurting a player base. Without need to get us angry and quiting. We, the players, are resonable persons too. Its easier to understand – guys we toning bondings a bit to tighteen the gap betwen you and new players, between them and other runestons, while giving you a new goal – rank 14s. We really understand that end game progress should be considerably slower, to keep us busy in compare to newcomers progress. But still it needs to be progress.
At least try to reconsider your ideas accordings to our tips and advices. This discussion alone have a lot of ideas worth considering. But above all else – change your approach to a playerbase. Otherwise – not that I would like to scare you – it seems we gona have NV funeral soon.
Make it 85% at R12, so by R14 you get everything back if it has to be nerfed. The thing is, 99% of people won't have those items BECAUSE of the greater refinement stone requirements.
Anyways, I stand behind my words. Make Augments increase by 100% with every rank up (green 100%, blue 200%, purple 300%, legendary either 350% or 400%). People WILL debate which one to get 1st. Because they need solo abilities and that's where augment comes into play. But for group content, bondings are the way to go due to ACDCs and Pallies. And there you have it. Perfect balance. No need for this nerf. At ALL.
Déjà vu ...of the Coal removal thread as well....
It is like a Neverending Story .
We, the player base do not want this kind of a nerf / change.
There is plenty of good suggestions in 35 pages of this thread.
35 pages of players, who are here long enough, to understand how things function in game, who tried their best to explain what it would do to the game . In a few days.
I mean , i am not sure with who Devs talk to ,about running TONG as a random dungeon, and that a random 12 k pug party can do it, but obviously someone was giving false informations to the Devs ?
Again, not saying it CAN NOT BE DONE, it can, by people who are here for years and know how to utilize 100 % of their skill.
We the average mortals, need bondings to proc , patience and a lot of fails to do it.
This kind of reactions should show that we are outraged and do not wish to accept this kind of change.
Sometimes i get this feeling like we and our input matter.
But i get highly disappointed afterwards, with the inability to even talk to us , while we panic here and plan on leaving the game.
Can someone at least look at our suggestions and maybe suggest them to other Devs.
" Look ! This player knows what is up, he suggested this and this and it ACTUALLY MAKES SENSE ! "
Why are you not talking to us like normal, every day people, having a discussion over a cup of tea ?
And i do not understand why it is so hard to talk to us.
It is like me trying to talk to Trump and get into the White house to have a cup of coffee with his wife, while shouting on Croatian about world injustice... i have that feeling every time we get an answer .
We are all human... and make mistakes, and have our jobs , kids and cars and parents, friends and dogs and cats and freaking hamsters.
We all get up in the morning , eat, go to work and do what we must, we love our job or not, we have our hobbies , take care of our families and we all try to live as best as possible.
If we can try to appreciate what you do. Then heck we do expect that kind of treatment back.
Normal human conversation.
Off topic - I am experienced player, but never seen such amounts of pitchforks and torches ready
This time it is really high caliber gun on use.
how about don't change anything from how it is right now. and just don't add any more percentage stats per level 13 and 14 add something else.