Wait, what? Dread and Vorpal being nerfed? WUT? My main is HR and these are two best weapon enchantments for HR. Please tell me it's not true
I guess what they mean is that with the bonding nerf, getting a 100% crit chance will be difficult or impossible, and since vorpal/dread both require you to crit... then their effectiveness will also be proportionally lower.
This a pain for HRs, as other enchants, feytouched for example, are seriously buggy with our powers. When I had a fey, I was limited to pg, Fox and longstriders, because everything else broke the fey buff.
Just to sum up the changes.
1) we are going to be nerfed to the tune of approx half our offensive pet stats. Major reductions in power - base damage, and crit chance. In my case about 15k power and 7.5k crit.
2) we are very incentivized to buy this back.
3) however with the daily AD queue change, and alts being disqualified due to lack of progression, acquiring "free" AD is going to become difficult.
4) however number 2, on our mains, completing dungeons with decent rewards, fbi tbh., in a timeframe that makes economic sense becomes downgraded. Not to mention the playerbase will be generally poorer, which will negatively impact AH sales and prices.
5) the requirement to run ToNG to acquire vital components for upgrading provides a nice catch22. The solution to which I am expecting will be expensive zenstore packs, to be announced undoubtably as a "gift" to the playerbase by the nice helpful devs, once enough people cry on the forums.
Results: powercreep temporarily solved. End gamers given something to spend their AD on. With a control mechanism - the possibility of an upgrade pack in the future - of ensuring Zen purchases, especially if the zax becomes massively backlogged.
In the interim, people will be switching out enchants to prop up crit, which is always an expensive business, and frustrations will lead to credit card use.
From cryptic's Pov. it's all win.
All I hope is that with this influx of cash, the game content will be improved, and the neglected classes will get an overhaul.
except a large number of people will quit instead of doing these things. I don't think their influx of cash will be as great as anticipated. most of us don't like dropping the soap....you'll get a very small subset who will knuckle down to do what it takes to get things back quickly but many more are going to be feeling demotivated by this. and feeling like yeah ok so I follow this fools path they've set before me. what happens 3 months out? do we rinse repeat? why should I bother???
@jonkoca The voice of reason, really. But I still don't want the bonds to be nerfed. They'll still profit off of this even without the nerf because some people want insta-BiS and there will be people like that. So yeah, no need to nerf. The only 22 I'm gonna catch tho is a .22 in my neck. There's just no excusing this.
Wait, what? Dread and Vorpal being nerfed? WUT? My main is HR and these are two best weapon enchantments for HR. Please tell me it's not true
I guess what they mean is that with the bonding nerf, getting a 100% crit chance will be difficult or impossible, and since vorpal/dread both require you to crit... then their effectiveness will also be proportionally lower.
This a pain for HRs, as other enchants, feytouched for example, are seriously buggy with our powers. When I had a fey, I was limited to pg, Fox and longstriders, because everything else broke the fey buff.
Just to sum up the changes.
1) we are going to be nerfed to the tune of approx half our offensive pet stats. Major reductions in power - base damage, and crit chance. In my case about 15k power and 7.5k crit.
2) we are very incentivized to buy this back.
3) however with the daily AD queue change, and alts being disqualified due to lack of progression, acquiring "free" AD is going to become difficult.
4) however number 2, on our mains, completing dungeons with decent rewards, fbi tbh., in a timeframe that makes economic sense becomes downgraded. Not to mention the playerbase will be generally poorer, which will negatively impact AH sales and prices.
5) the requirement to run ToNG to acquire vital components for upgrading provides a nice catch22. The solution to which I am expecting will be expensive zenstore packs, to be announced undoubtably as a "gift" to the playerbase by the nice helpful devs, once enough people cry on the forums.
Results: powercreep temporarily solved. End gamers given something to spend their AD on. With a control mechanism - the possibility of an upgrade pack in the future - of ensuring Zen purchases, especially if the zax becomes massively backlogged.
In the interim, people will be switching out enchants to prop up crit, which is always an expensive business, and frustrations will lead to credit card use.
From cryptic's Pov. it's all win.
All I hope is that with this influx of cash, the game content will be improved, and the neglected classes will get an overhaul.
except a large number of people will quit instead of doing these things. I don't think their influx of cash will be as great as anticipated. most of us don't like dropping the soap....you'll get a very small subset who will knuckle down to do what it takes to get things back quickly but many more are going to be feeling demotivated by this. and feeling like yeah ok so I follow this fools path they've set before me. what happens 3 months out? do we rinse repeat? why should I bother???
I've a feeling that is also a desired end. Those who quit, from cryptic's pov. weren't ever going to spend very much money on the game, they were however going to hog bandwidth and stress the servers. Especially if neverwinter is slowly heading for whatever heaven exists for free2play mmos and the budget for hardware maintainance and upgrading is limited. The random q feature ensures queues pop quickly even with a reduced playerbase, lessening the observable impact of fewer players. Derestricting pvp gear and making solo q a permanent thing does the same for pvp. Lol, perhaps this is the devs' version of their endgame.
The ones who stay will be the ones willing to pay, or at least more willing anyway.
No idea what my toon is now.
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mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
The reason is CLEAR. Because the cause is NOT powershare, if we only had R12 Eldrtich the whole discussion would not exist...
If they did even attempt reducing support buff's in be the first nail in the coffer to support classes; so the only alternative would be to limit powershare to players only! Yet if that was done it would make the existing NERF to bonding far worse than it is now; yet would fail to correct the 9x advantage Bonding has over other equally ranked Runes.
The revised Bonding Changes address the cause not the symptom; while still leaving Bonding in a BiS role with 5x benefit. Most will likely maintain 3x Bonding stones in their companion, yet some might now want to pair 2 Bonding with an Empowered or other Rune. Now at least their are some viable options including for Augments.
Many may disagree with me. But my analysis I think is very FAIR & looks at a variety of options or alternatives having worked in technology for 20+ years. I compliment them on finding a solution which addressed the cause of the issue while restoring balance between Bonding and all other Runes in a very fair and appropriate way.
I think those who continue to attack Cyptic's decision are taking it 5 steps too far! It's going beyond debate to just encouraging or promoting TOXIC atmosphere. I'm not saying they will RETHINK the 50% uptime, but your certainly not winning sympathy to your cause. >:)
Honestly as another person stated earlier... ...285% of a companions Rune, Gear & Enchantments that also attacks with 3 or 4 powers, while also getting a dual higher buff of +2520 to offense or defense. That's 11x more powerful than every other Rune and the reason power share is a problem at the very core.
This is what you need to examine. 1st we have a given. a nerf will happen somewhere because of excessive damage in a portion of the players. Shouldn't the change affect MORE that target group and not the 10k-12k who is trying CN with one or no dc? The 12-14k who is trying FBI - SP? The players who are with r9 now and are trying to do dailies? Those are the groups that have "power creep"?? Simple answer NO
Bonding stones change affect everyone but the effect is way harder on low/mid part than on the top. The top will one way or the other make it back to r14... the other players wont adjust that fast and while they wont things will be harder for them. How much? even 1% is unjustified.We are supposed to move forward to the game, not backwards. To have a sense of progression.
Let me put it this way, most everyone here are saying what is NOT supposed to happen. That the easy part. I can say NO TO EVERYTHING too all day long. See? really easy.
Make an actual proposal that can happen in the next 3 weeks and will affect MOSTLY the target group that has the power creep and not the players who already struggle to even get in queues or having hard time doing the content.
Ask yourself this: Where does damage come from? 1st the power not to have diminishing returns (not judging if its right or wrong just stating a fact) 2nd the powershare gives its benefits X4 extra times through the companion 3rd Bonding stones too high as a % since mod 6 (maybe) 4th Buffs having multiplicative nature between them (each skill and from each class multiply with each other) so when we stack buff classes, the numbers increase exponentially
There are others too like weapon damage, skills etc but you really don't want to go there.
So from the above factors we can make a suggestion for 1 change. We need to see which is the major one, in order of effect and also keeping in mind the mid range and lower range groups. For that reason, power not having diminishing returns can stay since we can just eliminate the getting the power from other sources easier.
Buffs having multiplicative nature is helpful in all groups (low end, mid end, high end) because those are player / class based and can develop play style and synergy / strategy with other classes. So we are left with two.
1. bonding stone now (on new mod) offering almost half the stat points (17842) so a loss of 13k points. Even less if we calculate that we will also have r14 on our gears so the neat loss will be from 2300 points to 945 points depending on what gears you use on companion. This also affects multiple stats (what ever the companion offers such as crit armor pen etc which also asks for more money to be spend to adjust loss in stats. Specially armor pen for some.
2. Powesharing through companion using bonding that can give anything from +35k extra stat points to all the way to 210k stat points when you stack classes. To make sure people understand ITS NOT ABOUT DC its about the portion of the powershare that comes from all sources and affects bonding multiplying the powershare to the dps. To conpesate affect classes an adjustment can be made so they will powershare MORE but ONLY to the the players.
So what do we win We can keep bondings at 285% since lowering them doesn't do anything in the long run anyway. The groups that stack 2 dc and pally which is the vast majority on the higher end will have the desired effect of "lowering the damage" while we don't affect the low /mid and portion of the upper part. A good dc will be good dc, a good paly will be good paly. Those things wont change and players can keep their stats that they worked hard. also it will allow for other possible combos To be honest I don't care with what class I will do a dungeon, I want to do a dungeon.
Bringing in line the other ruins and/or augments. Complex subject but really easy to see where the problem is. We have a fact: People most always, will choose the path that gives them the desired result with the least amount of trouble.
You (the devs) wanted to tone down the bonding % as you felt its overpowered compared to others... Agreed. What did you achieve with that? Nothing. Its still better that any other ruin even with others giving more points. How much better? 95% exactly. The amount of stat share it offers. Now you kept saying on the last Stream that is better to tone down one and not raise the others.. I agree, but this is hardly enough and became pointless now.
So unless the other enchants offer the same share % of stats, as bondings do, but different stats (crit, armor pen etc), there is no way that anyone will justify losing 95% more stats from 3 gears and 9 enchants. Would you?
Now here is the catch. Powershare to the companions (again). Neither augment nor other ruins allow the powershare to go through. So you ask the player base to reconsider to switch to either augment and/or other ruins and lose 95% of own stats and 50k++ stats from powershare per source more or less. On top augments don't offer at the current point any support for mount bonuses that trigger by using companions. Even more stat loss.
I want to make something clear as far as I'm concerned. I do agree and promote with almost every other option and not nerfing. Harder content, Tiered dungeons, more dungeons for all, diminishing returns even, anything that makes me feel I'm moving forward and not backward...
But I'm also trying to stay focused to the topic of this thread. The devs wanted a change and a tone down to power creep. Who created that? sure not the players, but nevertheless it exists and the devs want it down. Since this is a given and at this point they will not do any of the above better solutions for x reasons, my goal was to suggest the least worst solution for us players. Trying to choose the lesser evil if you like.
As others showed too with facts and screens the nerf to bonding solved nothing, on contrary it creates problems to a big portion of the players. I think its better to reevaluate and see if we have a better solution for the power creep again given the situation we are now.
One way or the other if we try we will all win something. Better game for us within this situation we are in and the devs will succeed on their goal they set to do. WIN - WIN situation. Players will still upgrade to r14, every DD and their mothers will buy the new artifact, and we will all make our wep / armor to r13, and cryptic will get its money.
You got a better idea that can realistically happen in the given time frame from beta to live ?, Please speak and present the idea. But something that can be done. As I said I want to the old dungeons back? Will that happen now? NO I want legendary dungeons, will that happen now? Lvl 80 and adjusted mobs/bosses? Cant happen. Lets keep it real and within the time frame that we have.. From beta... to live.
Thank you
I agree lower players do not play with 2 clerics 1 op they struggle to even find a 1 support, change to powershare will not affect them but a change to a bonding runestone will decrease their personal stats .
What will happen if this goes live will nerf all other classes that powershare trough the companion also will nerf the low players in exchange the powershare classes to keep transfer the power to the companion and then the buffed power companion to player trough bonding (x2 buff).
Sure. I'd be happy to. We set the minimal (not minimum, reading comprehension peoples) at 13k as around a slight buffer on the entry level is optimal. Augments Epic/Legendary Rank, R7s as Enchants.
But since you apparently lack any semblance of manners or self control and you haven't payed me nearly enough to earn the right to insult me, I'll be needing reasonable compensation for my time.
Be waiting on that, cupcake.
I don't think you know what proof means (reading comprehension bro). Typing some words aiin't proof so i still stay you're full of it.
Minimal: of a minimum amount, quantity, or degree; negligible. Minimum is literally in the definition. Setting your own 'minimal' threshold higher than the 'minimum' requirements and prancing around saying everyone else is doing something wrong is pretty lacking of manners. tsk tsk.
Reasonable compensation? Since you like taking a subjective word, applying your own interpretation and coming to an objective conclusion: i didn't swear at you in this post. There's your compensation. i think it's totally reasonable.
Aaaaanyways, it's 11:30 in Washington so the devs definitely should've came and read a few of these already, their forheads are sweaty, moms spaghetti. I want to like the updates, and I WANT to support you, but if this update happens, I won't be able to. And same probably goes for a lot of other people.
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plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,355Arc User
edited September 2017
Hmmm! Lowbies and new players are not using bonding, right? Or, they are these days. For me, using bonding are not exactly lowbie or new players.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
You are going to have lowbies and new players attempting to use the 2 DC, OP meta in ETOS and ELOL. This will further destroy the game. This bonding change can't happen, it is a horrible mistake.
Sorry if you didnt understand i meant the opposite.
Hmmm! Lowbies and new players are not using bonding, right? Or, they are these days. For me, using bonding are not exactly lowbie or new players.
Chances are they are suing r8, r9, r10... Its not about r12 or nothing. They may also have just 1 or 2.
If they are using less than 100% multiplier, they should be using augment pet. That was what I used and I was okay to go to eLOL and eTOS.
I agree, if you check R8 gives 35% X 3 = 105% R9 gives 50%X3 = 150% and R10 gives 65X3=195% all above the limits you said On top even if you were to use r7, not everyone can afford to keep leveling and switching companions to purple even if augment.
Which also brings another aspect of the nerf to bonding. We all focused on rank 12 while juts imaginne how much the people with r8,r9,r10 will get hit.
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plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,355Arc User
Hmmm! Lowbies and new players are not using bonding, right? Or, they are these days. For me, using bonding are not exactly lowbie or new players.
Chances are they are suing r8, r9, r10... Its not about r12 or nothing. They may also have just 1 or 2.
If they are using less than 100% multiplier, they should be using augment pet. That was what I used and I was okay to go to eLOL and eTOS.
I agree, if you check R8 gives 35% X 3 = 105% R9 gives 50%X3 = 150% and R10 gives 65X3=195% all above the limits you said On top even if you were to use r7, not everyone can afford to keep leveling and switching companions to purple even if augment.
Which also brings another aspect of the nerf to bonding. We all focused on rank 12 while juts imaginne how much the people with r8,r9,r10 will get hit.
R8 percentage is not changed. R9 and R10 (and higher) are. However, if they are using R9 and R10, are they really lowbie or new? 4 of 5 of my main toons are using R9/R10 and they cover all contents. They are not the top tier but they are not lowbie in my book though. Anyway, it is just a matter of opinion.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
R8 percentage is not changed. R9 and R10 (and higher) are. However, if they are using R9 and R10, are they really lowbie or new? 4 of 5 of my main toons are using R9/R10 and they cover all contents. They are not the top tier but they are not lowbie in my book though. Anyway, it is just a matter of opinion.
I guess we can call them mid range I suppose, but hardly the kind of players, that one can notice the power creep we are talking about On top that doesn't change the fact that they will lose stats despite the fact that they are not Over Powered.
For doing the content it takes more than a R9. The team one is running with and his own experience, rest of gears play far more important role. On the other hand because one can do all the content with r9 doesn't mean everyone can, or should.
But you will agree that in general a new-ish player with r9 will have a bit harder time on new mod or completing all the content.
In general, ownership of an item does't indicate time played/experience. If i start tomorrow and win a legendary mount that doesn't make me end game right?
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plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,355Arc User
R8 percentage is not changed. R9 and R10 (and higher) are. However, if they are using R9 and R10, are they really lowbie or new? 4 of 5 of my main toons are using R9/R10 and they cover all contents. They are not the top tier but they are not lowbie in my book though. Anyway, it is just a matter of opinion.
I guess we can call them mid range I suppose, but hardly the kind of players, that one can notice the power creep we are talking about On top that doesn't change the fact that they will lose stats despite the fact that they are not Over Powered.
For doing the content it takes more than a R9. The team one is running with and his own experience, rest of gears play far more important role. On the other hand because one can do all the content with r9 doesn't mean everyone can, or should.
But you will agree that in general a new-ish player with r9 will have a bit harder time on new mod or completing all the content.
In general, ownership of an item does't indicate time played/experience. If i start tomorrow and win a legendary mount that doesn't make me end game right?
I agree that they should be mid range. I was wrong saying my 4 of 5 main toons (with R9/R10) cover all content. I mean they can cover all content except the end game dungeon and that means ToNG. To be more specific, they can cover all solo content.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
0
plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,355Arc User
It is quite odd to claim that new players and lowbies do not have high rank bondings anyway. The first thing we tell new players is to go for bondings, gear pets, run IG, etc.
That started with my post asking:
Hmmm! Lowbies and new players are not using bonding, right? Or, they are these days. For me, using bonding are not exactly lowbie or new players.
I am not claiming anything because I really don't know. I was just surprised. Wait! How does new player run IG? I guess I am missing something. What is a "new player" in the context?
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
I'm still seeing arguments about the power of bondings and balancing power creep. this has nothing to do with power creep, It's about giving high geared players new progression targets to spend money on.
If they were concerned about players becoming too powerful we wouldn't have seen:
* mount insignias * mount insignia bonus powers * 5 Legendary companion bonuses * new artifact with +50% DPS as it's active power * enchantments going to rank 14 with an extra 300 pts each (so 6.3k stat points in total) * a new higher rank on weapon enchantments * more boons with every new campaign
If they were concerned about power they would have either JUST nerfed bondings and added nothing else or removed power sharing via companion, thus dropping team Power stats by 100-200k per player.
This has nothing to do with power, it's about months of extra progression, which means extra spending.
Anything else is just smoke and mirrors.
Please Do Not Feed The Trolls
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Bonding runestones were not adjusted due to power creep. They were adjusted due to being so far out of line with the rest of runestones/companions. It was something on our radar for a long time, and where it may have been easier to accept if it had happened sooner, it still needed to happen.
The refinement changes were something we already had plans for and were working on. With that coming down the line, we knew that any changes to bonding runestones needed to happen before players started investing in T13 and T14 bonding runestones and that is why these changes are all bundled together.
At this point we are still going forward with the bonding runestones as they are now. We realize there are other issues in the game and those are all things to be looked at independently of this. Bonding runestones do need to be brought closer in line with the rest of the companion system, and these changes still leave them out in front as the most powerful choice for most players.
@noworries#8859 The thing is, this still changes fkin nothing. You say "adjust so it matches other comps", meanwhile in group runs with augments, you can maybe get 30k power from a DC while with bondings you get 150k power from that same DC, regardless of are they the M12 or M12b. So, in advance, apologies for being rude, but that sounds like complete HAMSTER. If it really was an issue you would've just put a higher percentage on augments and eldritch runestones and enabled power share on augments, but that's not it, isn't it?
Bonding runestones were not adjusted due to power creep. They were adjusted due to being so far out of line with the rest of runestones/companions. It was something on our radar for a long time, and where it may have been easier to accept if it had happened sooner, it still needed to happen.
The rest of the runestones are trash, fix those. Ignore your player base and they'll all leave, no one wants to work back up to their current stats, there's no progression there.
Bonding runestones were not adjusted due to power creep. They were adjusted due to being so far out of line with the rest of runestones/companions. It was something on our radar for a long time, and where it may have been easier to accept if it had happened sooner, it still needed to happen.
The refinement changes were something we already had plans for and were working on. With that coming down the line, we knew that any changes to bonding runestones needed to happen before players started investing in T13 and T14 bonding runestones and that is why these changes are all bundled together.
At this point we are still going forward with the bonding runestones as they are now. We realize there are other issues in the game and those are all things to be looked at independently of this. Bonding runestones do need to be brought closer in line with the rest of the companion system, and these changes still leave them out in front as the most powerful choice for most players.
despite that evidence has been brought forward and confirmed to be taken note of, that you can make other runestones more powerful and more viable without lowering the bonding percentage, and bring bondings effectiveness more in line with other re-adjusted runestones by removing the multiplyer from buffers that go through the companion then back to the player, the devs are still dead set on the nerf.
I'm really having no other option here than to call it a cash grab/resale. this discussion thread was suppose to help both sides come to an agreement right? that's why there is a preview server and a want for feedback. why did any of us even contribute if it ment we would be disregarded?
Alright, another one of my usual posts comin' your way.
If being "in line" was the issue, you wouldn't nerf bondings because you know that power share still makes them better than augments. No, this is about something else. I've had enough of playing the nice guy, trying to rationally talk this through, but oooooh boi here we go.
So, for starters, "it isn't because of the power creep"... so the mods and devs statements' validity last less than eastern European peace treaties? Anyways, back on topic. You can't fix 2 things being "in line" if one was developed and introduced literally a few mods before the other. Why don't you then just make all our main hands equal to be "in line" with the others?
Now if the issue truly is "being in line", why don't you 1st work on balancing your classes so the DPS is "in line" with others? It's seriously irritating that you can have 2 classes that are supposed to have the same role (eg TR and HR) yet one performs so much better than others that it's stupid. THAT should take priority. Not spitting in people's faces. Knowing the fact that augments are already dead and no one really gives a damn about them besides people stuck in 2015.
Now, pardon me if I sound aggressive, that's probably because I'm trying to sound aggressive to emphasize the utter disappointment I have in the "game" right now. You're supposed to fight FOR your customers, giving them more content, and making people able to do MORE content as opposed to less, but that just shows how archaic my thinking is. It's like that Sims 3 vs Sims 4 thing, you can buy Sims 4, pay more for it, and get less! How nice is EA to give us that beautiful offer. I mean, I think that we would've advanced FURTHER as a civilization if we all wore rocks instead of hats for 10,000 years, or used floating rocks as companions from about the same age Genghis Khan was conquering the world. Realize that NO ONE cares about augments. No one will EVER use them just because of how weak they are. The way to make them equal to bondings is NOT to nerf bondings but to buff augments. Did that ever come across your mind? BUFF AUGMENTS.
Getting these inconsistent answers is really the worst. With M12 going well, I planned on investing more money into the game, but the only thing I'm gonna invest into now is the effort it takes to press right click and delete on the game folder.
Cheerios, lads. That's it for my anger-filled post that actually makes sense unlike a lot of things in this thread, but whatever, I don't even care anymore. I tried to show them that they're making the wrong call, they ignored it, and that's it.
Just a quick note to those who keep referencing 4x Power Share through companions. That 4x comes from what used to be 1x direct + 2.85x through bondings + 0.15x on legendary active.
That 4x number isn't accurate anymore right now, because that 0.15x Legendary Active got increased (from 0.16x with 1 orange pet, all the way to 0.31x with 5 orange pets). So on live right now, we are looking at 4.01x to 4.16x power share amplified through bondings (assuming you hit both pet and owner with all sources of power share).
Be advised that in the new system, this is getting reduced because of the bonding nerf. Looking at 3x R12 bondings in the new system, we go from 2.85x to 1.65x. If you manage to get to 3x R14 bondings, then you get to edge back up to 1.95x.
For example, in the new system, with 1 legendary and 3x R12 it comes out to 1x + 1.65x + 0.16x = 2.81x power share. So (4.01 - 2.81)/4.01 = 0.29925187032 ~ 30% reduction in power being shared vs. live.
And at max, with 5 legendary and 3x R14 it comes out to 1x + 1.95x + 0.31x = 3.26x power share. So (4.16 - 3.26)/4.16 = 0.21634615384 ~ 18% reduction in max possible power being shared vs. live.
So I'd say it's more accurate to say we are looking at ~3x power share under the new mechanics. That's still very noticeable, but definitely less than on liver right now.
Additionally, unless they make a change to this (and I think that they should), the duration = cooldown means that you need to exactly time AA (and possibly BoB) in order to get it in place right before bonding procs. For those of you that remember the days of fast-procing bonding companions, we're taking a step back in that direction again.
My point is that power sharing is getting a pretty big haircut with these changes. It's still very powerful, but noticeably less so than on live.
I personally agree with the sentiment that power sharing and buffs should be reviewed together. Removing all of the power transfer through bondings would immediately remove the viability of power-share builds (vs. pure DO buffer). I think an eventual solution can absolutely involve the removal of this transfer (although it doesn't necessarily have to), but it should be balanced with buffs in order to provide viable tradeoffs between AC vs. DO DCs and other support classes.
On a side note, I think that people in general are susceptible to following trends. One side benefit of this random queue business is that it may open people's eyes that 2DC is perhaps not as necessary as many people believe.
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mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
Bonding runestones were not adjusted due to power creep. They were adjusted due to being so far out of line with the rest of runestones/companions. It was something on our radar for a long time, and where it may have been easier to accept if it had happened sooner, it still needed to happen.
The refinement changes were something we already had plans for and were working on. With that coming down the line, we knew that any changes to bonding runestones needed to happen before players started investing in T13 and T14 bonding runestones and that is why these changes are all bundled together.
At this point we are still going forward with the bonding runestones as they are now. We realize there are other issues in the game and those are all things to be looked at independently of this. Bonding runestones do need to be brought closer in line with the rest of the companion system, and these changes still leave them out in front as the most powerful choice for most players.
Do you have any plans to change the powershare how it works to achieve your above goal ? Tell me a reason why i should use an augment and the "reworked other runestones" ?
So I get that instead of fixing the bazillions bugs, even minors that runs in the game and are reported for quite long time, you use that time to nerf people and sell their power back for dozens millions. Who talk about improving the game resovling the MASSIVE amount of bugs in every domains (powers, tooltips, minor bugs like Chult professions, etc etc etc) when you can milk the hell out of people, creating another mass exodus?
Players are never listened on these decisions: coalgate? keygate? now this. I don't even understand why you keep creating feedback threads like this because you ignore every kind of feedback. The only thing you're doing is going "back" on some things like the uptime, classic strategy. Afraid people with huge changes and finally sell them what you wanted in the first place.
One word, again and again. Disgusting. This game has a huge potential, massive. But you don't seem like you want people to play it.
Comments
The voice of reason, really. But I still don't want the bonds to be nerfed. They'll still profit off of this even without the nerf because some people want insta-BiS and there will be people like that. So yeah, no need to nerf.
The only 22 I'm gonna catch tho is a .22 in my neck. There's just no excusing this.
Also... *khm*.... JOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOON
The ones who stay will be the ones willing to pay, or at least more willing anyway.
What will happen if this goes live will nerf all other classes that powershare trough the companion also will nerf the low players in exchange the powershare classes to keep transfer the power to the companion and then the buffed power companion to player trough bonding (x2 buff).
Minimal: of a minimum amount, quantity, or degree; negligible. Minimum is literally in the definition. Setting your own 'minimal' threshold higher than the 'minimum' requirements and prancing around saying everyone else is doing something wrong is pretty lacking of manners. tsk tsk.
Reasonable compensation? Since you like taking a subjective word, applying your own interpretation and coming to an objective conclusion: i didn't swear at you in this post. There's your compensation. i think it's totally reasonable.
Aaaaanyways, it's 11:30 in Washington so the devs definitely should've came and read a few of these already, their forheads are sweaty, moms spaghetti.
I want to like the updates, and I WANT to support you, but if this update happens, I won't be able to. And same probably goes for a lot of other people.
Sorry if you didnt understand i meant the opposite.
Which also brings another aspect of the nerf to bonding. We all focused on rank 12 while juts imaginne how much the people with r8,r9,r10 will get hit.
However, if they are using R9 and R10, are they really lowbie or new? 4 of 5 of my main toons are using R9/R10 and they cover all contents.
They are not the top tier but they are not lowbie in my book though. Anyway, it is just a matter of opinion.
For doing the content it takes more than a R9. The team one is running with and his own experience, rest of gears play far more important role. On the other hand because one can do all the content with r9 doesn't mean everyone can, or should.
But you will agree that in general a new-ish player with r9 will have a bit harder time on new mod or completing all the content.
In general, ownership of an item does't indicate time played/experience. If i start tomorrow and win a legendary mount that doesn't make me end game right?
I was wrong saying my 4 of 5 main toons (with R9/R10) cover all content. I mean they can cover all content except the end game dungeon and that means ToNG. To be more specific, they can cover all solo content.
Hmmm! Lowbies and new players are not using bonding, right? Or, they are these days. For me, using bonding are not exactly lowbie or new players.
I am not claiming anything because I really don't know. I was just surprised.
Wait! How does new player run IG?
I guess I am missing something. What is a "new player" in the context?
If they were concerned about players becoming too powerful we wouldn't have seen:
* mount insignias
* mount insignia bonus powers
* 5 Legendary companion bonuses
* new artifact with +50% DPS as it's active power
* enchantments going to rank 14 with an extra 300 pts each (so 6.3k stat points in total)
* a new higher rank on weapon enchantments
* more boons with every new campaign
If they were concerned about power they would have either JUST nerfed bondings and added nothing else or removed power sharing via companion, thus dropping team Power stats by 100-200k per player.
This has nothing to do with power, it's about months of extra progression, which means extra spending.
Anything else is just smoke and mirrors.
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
The refinement changes were something we already had plans for and were working on. With that coming down the line, we knew that any changes to bonding runestones needed to happen before players started investing in T13 and T14 bonding runestones and that is why these changes are all bundled together.
At this point we are still going forward with the bonding runestones as they are now. We realize there are other issues in the game and those are all things to be looked at independently of this. Bonding runestones do need to be brought closer in line with the rest of the companion system, and these changes still leave them out in front as the most powerful choice for most players.
The thing is, this still changes fkin nothing. You say "adjust so it matches other comps", meanwhile in group runs with augments, you can maybe get 30k power from a DC while with bondings you get 150k power from that same DC, regardless of are they the M12 or M12b. So, in advance, apologies for being rude, but that sounds like complete HAMSTER.
If it really was an issue you would've just put a higher percentage on augments and eldritch runestones and enabled power share on augments, but that's not it, isn't it?
Sounds great - so buff the other options instead, everyone's happy
I'm really having no other option here than to call it a cash grab/resale. this discussion thread was suppose to help both sides come to an agreement right? that's why there is a preview server and a want for feedback. why did any of us even contribute if it ment we would be disregarded?
If being "in line" was the issue, you wouldn't nerf bondings because you know that power share still makes them better than augments. No, this is about something else. I've had enough of playing the nice guy, trying to rationally talk this through, but oooooh boi here we go.
So, for starters, "it isn't because of the power creep"... so the mods and devs statements' validity last less than eastern European peace treaties? Anyways, back on topic. You can't fix 2 things being "in line" if one was developed and introduced literally a few mods before the other. Why don't you then just make all our main hands equal to be "in line" with the others?
Now if the issue truly is "being in line", why don't you 1st work on balancing your classes so the DPS is "in line" with others? It's seriously irritating that you can have 2 classes that are supposed to have the same role (eg TR and HR) yet one performs so much better than others that it's stupid. THAT should take priority. Not spitting in people's faces.
Knowing the fact that augments are already dead and no one really gives a damn about them besides people stuck in 2015.
Now, pardon me if I sound aggressive, that's probably because I'm trying to sound aggressive to emphasize the utter disappointment I have in the "game" right now. You're supposed to fight FOR your customers, giving them more content, and making people able to do MORE content as opposed to less, but that just shows how archaic my thinking is. It's like that Sims 3 vs Sims 4 thing, you can buy Sims 4, pay more for it, and get less! How nice is EA to give us that beautiful offer. I mean, I think that we would've advanced FURTHER as a civilization if we all wore rocks instead of hats for 10,000 years, or used floating rocks as companions from about the same age Genghis Khan was conquering the world. Realize that NO ONE cares about augments. No one will EVER use them just because of how weak they are. The way to make them equal to bondings is NOT to nerf bondings but to buff augments. Did that ever come across your mind? BUFF AUGMENTS.
Getting these inconsistent answers is really the worst. With M12 going well, I planned on investing more money into the game, but the only thing I'm gonna invest into now is the effort it takes to press right click and delete on the game folder.
Cheerios, lads. That's it for my anger-filled post that actually makes sense unlike a lot of things in this thread, but whatever, I don't even care anymore. I tried to show them that they're making the wrong call, they ignored it, and that's it.
Alea iacta est. No going back now.
That 4x number isn't accurate anymore right now, because that 0.15x Legendary Active got increased (from 0.16x with 1 orange pet, all the way to 0.31x with 5 orange pets). So on live right now, we are looking at 4.01x to 4.16x power share amplified through bondings (assuming you hit both pet and owner with all sources of power share).
Be advised that in the new system, this is getting reduced because of the bonding nerf. Looking at 3x R12 bondings in the new system, we go from 2.85x to 1.65x. If you manage to get to 3x R14 bondings, then you get to edge back up to 1.95x.
For example, in the new system, with 1 legendary and 3x R12 it comes out to 1x + 1.65x + 0.16x = 2.81x power share. So (4.01 - 2.81)/4.01 = 0.29925187032 ~ 30% reduction in power being shared vs. live.
And at max, with 5 legendary and 3x R14 it comes out to 1x + 1.95x + 0.31x = 3.26x power share. So (4.16 - 3.26)/4.16 = 0.21634615384 ~ 18% reduction in max possible power being shared vs. live.
So I'd say it's more accurate to say we are looking at ~3x power share under the new mechanics. That's still very noticeable, but definitely less than on liver right now.
Additionally, unless they make a change to this (and I think that they should), the duration = cooldown means that you need to exactly time AA (and possibly BoB) in order to get it in place right before bonding procs. For those of you that remember the days of fast-procing bonding companions, we're taking a step back in that direction again.
My point is that power sharing is getting a pretty big haircut with these changes. It's still very powerful, but noticeably less so than on live.
I personally agree with the sentiment that power sharing and buffs should be reviewed together. Removing all of the power transfer through bondings would immediately remove the viability of power-share builds (vs. pure DO buffer). I think an eventual solution can absolutely involve the removal of this transfer (although it doesn't necessarily have to), but it should be balanced with buffs in order to provide viable tradeoffs between AC vs. DO DCs and other support classes.
On a side note, I think that people in general are susceptible to following trends. One side benefit of this random queue business is that it may open people's eyes that 2DC is perhaps not as necessary as many people believe.
Tell me a reason why i should use an augment and the "reworked other runestones" ?
Who talk about improving the game resovling the MASSIVE amount of bugs in every domains (powers, tooltips, minor bugs like Chult professions, etc etc etc) when you can milk the hell out of people, creating another mass exodus?
Players are never listened on these decisions: coalgate? keygate? now this. I don't even understand why you keep creating feedback threads like this because you ignore every kind of feedback. The only thing you're doing is going "back" on some things like the uptime, classic strategy. Afraid people with huge changes and finally sell them what you wanted in the first place.
One word, again and again. Disgusting. This game has a huge potential, massive. But you don't seem like you want people to play it.