> Going in with rank 12's would be same the as trying it with rank 9.5's in current - or two rank 9's and a rank 10. It's definitely undergeared.
>
> I suspect most players will avoid it until they've ranked most of their enchantments (inc bondings) to r13 at least.
Where's the fun in that though? Why do I want to bust my butt and/or spend money just to be able to run stuff I normally run? That isn't progression and I thought progression was the point of MMOs. I play to either be able to do stuff I can't do at the moment or be able to do the things I can't do too well a lot better.
Yep we know, that's the main thrust of the argument against reducing bonding capability.
Please Do Not Feed The Trolls
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
There were 16 people on last night in my guild. 16! I know some other good games came out but this is the lowest I have ever seen, especially for one of the top guilds on ps4. On other forums a lot of the guild members are saying they are leaving because of the announcement of the nerf. I don't want to log in one day and see single digit numbers in one of the most well known 4 letter guilds in NW (guild is cross platform).
Frankly - your companions or pets should never ever have become what decides how powerful you are. I am fine with bondings being more in line with other options if there is genuine progression elsewhere. I would rather my character was stronger than my companion.
What I don't want is to have to spend lots of time just to be able to run content that I can run now. That's a terrible model and deeply demotivating. Surely there must be a better way. Again - why not cap bondings out at rank 12 and make other stones as strong or even stronger over 14. Content can adjust. What you really need to avoid is a situation where content becomes crazy difficult for a while - this is why I think this has the danger of being like mod6.
And please please Cryptic - hire a PR/Comms person to advise how stuff is put out. Even phrasing it along the lines of "here are some options we would like you to consider" would be helpful.
Lastly - this is one change at the same time as a host of changes. It is simply too much all at the same time. Why not take your time with one element, then another, then another? And frankly - fix what people ask for - e.g. bring back the old dungeons as levelling dungeons at minimum. It just really sucks that the levelling story is broken and don't think for a second that doesn't put new players off. I have two friends who are seasoned D&D fans and got put off by that.
Going in with rank 12's would be same the as trying it with rank 9.5's in current - or two rank 9's and a rank 10. It's definitely undergeared.
I suspect most players will avoid it until they've ranked most of their enchantments (inc bondings) to r13 at least.
I really disgree here. I've done the math on my own and getting enchants on your character (not companion) from R10 to R12 is one of less efficient upgrades in this game.
Say you have 8x offense slots with Brutals R10 in them and upgrade them all to R12. You've gained 1280 Power and 1280 Crit who equal in total to less than 4% increase to crit and damage. All that for the low low price of about 1M AD per enchant in marks and wards, plus 1.7M additional RP for each, so maybe over 10M AD in total. This is a DISMAL ROI.
At least now the cost is going to be way less to get those levels, while keeping a good margin for further upgrades for the OCD completionist crowd, of which I am a part of unfortunately.
While it's true, they're making it easier to gain stats for the lower tier players, it doesn't change the fact that, if you're not a top tier player in a top tier guild, you probably wont be able to go past R12, let alone 13.
On a side note, I was listening to some music, and I found that one of my fav songs perfectly fits the state of the game right now: "I have thought That this will never end And things go on But nothing will last Only the fool in me believes There is sense in it In distant shores of green It's over now"
Hilarious, really. Anyways, I'm still waiting for dev response. I must be the fool from the lyrics.
While it's true, they're making it easier to gain stats for the lower tier players, it doesn't change the fact that, if you're not a top tier player in a top tier guild, you probably wont be able to go past R12, let alone 13.
On a side note, I was listening to some music, and I found that one of my fav songs perfectly fits the state of the game right now: "I have thought That this will never end And things go on But nothing will last Only the fool in me believes There is sense in it In distant shores of green It's over now"
Hilarious, really. Anyways, I'm still waiting for dev response. I must be the fool from the lyrics.
I don't see anything wrong with saying that top-tier players will/should be the ones aiming for top-tier enchants.
See my post above, but it currently makes little sense to upgrade enchants on your character to R12. The cost is huge for a minuscule stats gain. With this change they've made R12 more accessible for casual players but R14 will be mostly restricted to hardcore players, and again that's probably as it should be.
Upgrading those 8x R12 Brutals to R14 with the new update is going to give back a total of 1200 power and crit, so again less than 4% damage and crit. This is FAR from being game-breaking and players who choose to avoid the grind won't see that much difference. Everything should be perfectly playable for them, depending on their skill of course.
Post edited by araxelven on
0
silvergryphMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 740Arc User
ANOTHER BONDING SUGGESTION Since so many people want to keep a higher stat percentage from Bondings, here is a proposal to allow for that by balancing it with a mechanic that builds the bonus over time and allows a partial benefit to Augments.
They could make Bonding work like the toggle forms in their Champions Online game. Specifically, a stacking buff that starts out with a number of stacks based on total ranks of Bondings equipped. My suggestion is actually for two buffs. One on the player, and one on the companion. I'll call them Companion's Gift on the player and Companion's Might on the companion.
Bondings start at Rank 7, so that would be 1 stack of Companion's Gift on the player and 1 stack of Companion's Might on the companion. One additional stack for each rank, up to 8 stacks of each buff for a Rank 14. All of these stacks are cumulative for multiple Bonding Runestones (based on each stone's rank) and are static. That is to say they are always active as long as the companion is summoned. For example, if you have a Rank 7, a Rank 9, and a Rank 14 Bonding Runestone equipped, that is 1+3+8=12 static stacks of each buff. With three Rank 14s equipped, the number of static stacks is 24.
When your companion activates a power, it grants an additional stack of each buff and refresh all existing stacks. Up to a maximum of 16 additional stacks can be granted, and unless refreshed these stacks last for a duration of 20 seconds. You can gain a maximum of 1 stack every 2 seconds. For the example above with a Rank 7, a Rank 9, and a Rank 14 Bonding Runestone equipped, the maximum number of stacks of each buff is therefore 28. With 3 Rank 14s equipped, the maximum number of stacks is 40.
Companion's Gift: Each stack of Companion's Gift grants you +6% of your companion's stats. With 3 Rank 14 Bonding Runestones equipped, this equates to a static bonus of +144% of your companion's stats, up to +240% at the maximum number of stacks.
Companion's Might: Each stack of Companion's might grants your companion a +8% bonus to outgoing damage, outgoing healing, and control strength. In addition, each time your companion gains or refreshes a stack of Companion's Might it is healed for 8% of it's maximum hit points. With 3 Rank 14 Bonding Runestones equipped, this equates to a static bonus of +192% to your companion's outgoing damage, outgoing healing, and control strength, up to +320% at the maximum number of stacks.
Augments: Since the static stacks of Companion's Gift do not require the companion to activate a power, Augments can apply them. However, with Augments Companion's Gift is less effective. Each stack of Companion's Gift from an Augment grants you +4% of your companion's stats. With 3 Rank 14 Bonding Runestones equipped, this equates to a static bonus of +96% of your companion's stats, for a total of +196%. Since Augments do not activate powers, they cannot gain additional stacks of Companion's Gift and Companion's Might is not applicable to them. In light of this, the defesive bonus for Eldritch Runestones should be changed to something else (ie, Life Steal).
If your companion dies or is unsummoned, the static stacks become subject to the 20 second cooldown, but are re-applied if the companion is re-summoned or revived.
So, you wouldn't have to keep timing your attacks to when the companion's gift kicks in. You would start with a good buff right away, and 32 seconds into combat you would reach the highest stat buff and probably stay there for the entire combat. Augments would be marginally better for short fights against weak opponents (unless there is a source of power sharing), but bondings would be much better for longer fights and bosses. And combat companions might actually be able to contribute in combat.
Obviously, I don't know how easily the code can be borrowed, but the games do share the same engine. And of course, the suggested percentages and such might need to be adjusted. Particularly, Companion's Might may need to be +10% or +12% per stack to make companion's relevant in combat.
While it's true, they're making it easier to gain stats for the lower tier players, it doesn't change the fact that, if you're not a top tier player in a top tier guild, you probably wont be able to go past R12, let alone 13.
On a side note, I was listening to some music, and I found that one of my fav songs perfectly fits the state of the game right now: "I have thought That this will never end And things go on But nothing will last Only the fool in me believes There is sense in it In distant shores of green It's over now"
Hilarious, really. Anyways, I'm still waiting for dev response. I must be the fool from the lyrics.
I don't see anything wrong with saying that top-tier players will/should be the ones aiming for top-tier enchants.
See my post above, but it currently makes little sense to upgrade enchants on your character to R12. The cost is huge for a minuscule stats gain. With this change they've made R12 more accessible for casual players but R14 will be mostly restricted to hardcore players, and again that's probably as it should be.
Upgrading those 8x R12 Brutals to R14 with the new update is going to give back a total of 1200 power and crit, so again less than 4% damage and crit. This is FAR from being game-breaking and players who choose to avoid the grind won't see that much difference. Everything should be perfectly playable for them, depending on their skill of course.
The issue is, this update was intended to decrease the difference between top tiers and lower tier players. It does the exact opposite.
While it's true, they're making it easier to gain stats for the lower tier players, it doesn't change the fact that, if you're not a top tier player in a top tier guild, you probably wont be able to go past R12, let alone 13.
On a side note, I was listening to some music, and I found that one of my fav songs perfectly fits the state of the game right now: "I have thought That this will never end And things go on But nothing will last Only the fool in me believes There is sense in it In distant shores of green It's over now"
Hilarious, really. Anyways, I'm still waiting for dev response. I must be the fool from the lyrics.
I don't see anything wrong with saying that top-tier players will/should be the ones aiming for top-tier enchants.
See my post above, but it currently makes little sense to upgrade enchants on your character to R12. The cost is huge for a minuscule stats gain. With this change they've made R12 more accessible for casual players but R14 will be mostly restricted to hardcore players, and again that's probably as it should be.
Upgrading those 8x R12 Brutals to R14 with the new update is going to give back a total of 1200 power and crit, so again less than 4% damage and crit. This is FAR from being game-breaking and players who choose to avoid the grind won't see that much difference. Everything should be perfectly playable for them, depending on their skill of course.
The issue is, this update was intended to decrease the difference between top tiers and lower tier players. It does the exact opposite.
How so? If casual players upgrade to R12 and the hardcore gang can grind to R14, ultimately this amount to less than 4% damage and about 4% crit. And it takes a HUGE amount of grind for that last 4%.
While it's true, they're making it easier to gain stats for the lower tier players, it doesn't change the fact that, if you're not a top tier player in a top tier guild, you probably wont be able to go past R12, let alone 13.
On a side note, I was listening to some music, and I found that one of my fav songs perfectly fits the state of the game right now: "I have thought That this will never end And things go on But nothing will last Only the fool in me believes There is sense in it In distant shores of green It's over now"
Hilarious, really. Anyways, I'm still waiting for dev response. I must be the fool from the lyrics.
I don't see anything wrong with saying that top-tier players will/should be the ones aiming for top-tier enchants.
See my post above, but it currently makes little sense to upgrade enchants on your character to R12. The cost is huge for a minuscule stats gain. With this change they've made R12 more accessible for casual players but R14 will be mostly restricted to hardcore players, and again that's probably as it should be.
Upgrading those 8x R12 Brutals to R14 with the new update is going to give back a total of 1200 power and crit, so again less than 4% damage and crit. This is FAR from being game-breaking and players who choose to avoid the grind won't see that much difference. Everything should be perfectly playable for them, depending on their skill of course.
The issue is, this update was intended to decrease the difference between top tiers and lower tier players. It does the exact opposite.
How so? If casual players upgrade to R12 and the hardcore gang can grind to R14, ultimately this amount to less than 4% damage and about 4% crit. And it takes a HUGE amount of grind for that last 4%.
And then there's people who are already BIS and have been hoarding AD so they can just outright buy half the HAMSTER they need for the upgrade.
While it's true, they're making it easier to gain stats for the lower tier players, it doesn't change the fact that, if you're not a top tier player in a top tier guild, you probably wont be able to go past R12, let alone 13.
On a side note, I was listening to some music, and I found that one of my fav songs perfectly fits the state of the game right now: "I have thought That this will never end And things go on But nothing will last Only the fool in me believes There is sense in it In distant shores of green It's over now"
Hilarious, really. Anyways, I'm still waiting for dev response. I must be the fool from the lyrics.
I don't see anything wrong with saying that top-tier players will/should be the ones aiming for top-tier enchants.
See my post above, but it currently makes little sense to upgrade enchants on your character to R12. The cost is huge for a minuscule stats gain. With this change they've made R12 more accessible for casual players but R14 will be mostly restricted to hardcore players, and again that's probably as it should be.
Upgrading those 8x R12 Brutals to R14 with the new update is going to give back a total of 1200 power and crit, so again less than 4% damage and crit. This is FAR from being game-breaking and players who choose to avoid the grind won't see that much difference. Everything should be perfectly playable for them, depending on their skill of course.
The issue is, this update was intended to decrease the difference between top tiers and lower tier players. It does the exact opposite.
How so? If casual players upgrade to R12 and the hardcore gang can grind to R14, ultimately this amount to less than 4% damage and about 4% crit. And it takes a HUGE amount of grind for that last 4%.
And then there's people who are already BIS and have been hoarding AD so they can just outright buy half the HAMSTER they need for the upgrade.
So what?
I've been hoarding my stacks of green BtC and BtA res stones for months, and I'll probably have enough RP from this and my stacks of bound QM bags enchants on the first day to build and upgrade a dozen enchants to R13. I have a few dozen MoPs and SMoPs leftover from the last 50% sale to get there. I used all my accumulated AD to convert to Zen last weekend and bought 800 pres wards at 15% off. Is there anything wrong with that? Good planning gets good results.
I got all this from regular play and haven't got any particulrly good drops in months too. No real cash and only 1-2 hours per day of playing. Anyone can do it.
Going in with rank 12's would be same the as trying it with rank 9.5's in current - or two rank 9's and a rank 10. It's definitely undergeared.
I suspect most players will avoid it until they've ranked most of their enchantments (inc bondings) to r13 at least.
I really disgree here. I've done the math on my own and getting enchants on your character (not companion) from R10 to R12 is one of less efficient upgrades in this game.
Say you have 8x offense slots with Brutals R10 in them and upgrade them all to R12. You've gained 1280 Power and 1280 Crit who equal in total to less than 4% increase to crit and damage. All that for the low low price of about 1M AD per enchant in marks and wards, plus 1.7M additional RP for each, so maybe over 10M AD in total. This is a DISMAL ROI.
At least now the cost is going to be way less to get those levels, while keeping a good margin for further upgrades for the OCD completionist crowd, of which I am a part of unfortunately.
Yeah I don't think you understood the point I was addressing. It was in reply to someone asking if they've tried FBI on preview with these changes - my reply was to say that taking your current gear into FBI after the change will drop the value of your bonding stones from 285% stat transfer to 165% (the new 3x r12 value) which is the equivalent of 2x r9's and a r10 currently.
I in no way addressed the efficiency of various upgrades.
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Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
While it's true, they're making it easier to gain stats for the lower tier players, it doesn't change the fact that, if you're not a top tier player in a top tier guild, you probably wont be able to go past R12, let alone 13.
On a side note, I was listening to some music, and I found that one of my fav songs perfectly fits the state of the game right now: "I have thought That this will never end And things go on But nothing will last Only the fool in me believes There is sense in it In distant shores of green It's over now"
Hilarious, really. Anyways, I'm still waiting for dev response. I must be the fool from the lyrics.
I don't see anything wrong with saying that top-tier players will/should be the ones aiming for top-tier enchants.
See my post above, but it currently makes little sense to upgrade enchants on your character to R12. The cost is huge for a minuscule stats gain. With this change they've made R12 more accessible for casual players but R14 will be mostly restricted to hardcore players, and again that's probably as it should be.
Upgrading those 8x R12 Brutals to R14 with the new update is going to give back a total of 1200 power and crit, so again less than 4% damage and crit. This is FAR from being game-breaking and players who choose to avoid the grind won't see that much difference. Everything should be perfectly playable for them, depending on their skill of course.
The issue is, this update was intended to decrease the difference between top tiers and lower tier players. It does the exact opposite.
How so? If casual players upgrade to R12 and the hardcore gang can grind to R14, ultimately this amount to less than 4% damage and about 4% crit. And it takes a HUGE amount of grind for that last 4%.
And then there's people who are already BIS and have been hoarding AD so they can just outright buy half the HAMSTER they need for the upgrade.
So what?
I've been hoarding my stacks of green BtC and BtA res stones for months, and I'll probably have enough RP from this and my stacks of bound QM bags enchants on the first day to build and upgrade a dozen enchants to R13. I have a few dozen MoPs and SMoPs leftover from the last 50% sale to get there. I used all my accumulated AD to convert to Zen last weekend and bought 800 pres wards at 15% off. Is there anything wrong with that? Good planning gets good results.
I got all this from regular play and haven't got any particulrly good drops in months too. No real cash and only 1-2 hours per day of playing. Anyone can do it.
Do you even know what it requires to be upgraded? Stones that you get from TNG. It's not about planning. Planning is completely unrelated to what I said. In fact, what was the point of mentioning it? Did you even read my post?
its great that YOU had a chance to "plan". newer players do not have the accumulated wealth that the old timers have, moving that ever elusive bar further back, only sets the new players farther back; with much farther grind, pain and money to even think about trying to "catch-up". nothing wrong with planning as you did, BUT that does not help lower tiered players, or new players, that have not had a chance to accumulated wealth. now even more so they are gonna struggle, and take longer before they can participate in end game content. all this does is to insure that a new player; the moment they realize the amount of grind, or money,,,,they will leave as there is no way to justify them to stay at the ridiculous costs, and time sinks. there is nowhere near enough endgame content to keep players striving for that goal. i have one 13.4k GF that is my main. my other toons i have created are still lvling, i have spent over $200 in the past 6months or so. and i still do not have the accumulated wealth for r12's,,,,,let alone these changes which are only gonna drive the costs and time sink even further. NO THANKS. when enchants are costing into the millions, and we are restricted to what 30k rad a day how many days is that grinding to achieve ONE enchant to say r12, how many enchants do we have in our builds? we finally achieve end game and what, 3 dungeons are waiting for us? with horrible loot tables. as soon as i hit lvl 70, my whole guild and others told me my first priority is to get bonding's, and level the to r12 o.0 still not there yet but hey go ahead move the bar farther away i want my money back thank you.
Can I also say that incorrectly using my post to launch into a discussion about the relative values of ranks is taking the discussion into an area that is only thinly related to the topic of this thread and has almost no relevance (other than saying the new scaling is more cost effective) yes, thanks, we know it's more cost effective.
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Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
> @armadeonx said: > Going in with rank 12's would be same the as trying it with rank 9.5's in current - or two rank 9's and a rank 10. It's definitely undergeared. > > I suspect most players will avoid it until they've ranked most of their enchantments (inc bondings) to r13 at least. > > I really disgree here. I've done the math on my own and getting enchants on your character (not companion) from R10 to R12 is one of less efficient upgrades in this game. > > Say you have 8x offense slots with Brutals R10 in them and upgrade them all to R12. You've gained 1280 Power and 1280 Crit who equal in total to less than 4% increase to crit and damage. All that for the low low price of about 1M AD per enchant in marks and wards, plus 1.7M additional RP for each, so maybe over 10M AD in total. This is a DISMAL ROI. > > At least now the cost is going to be way less to get those levels, while keeping a good margin for further upgrades for the OCD completionist crowd, of which I am a part of unfortunately. > > Yeah I don't think you understood the point I was addressing. It was in reply to someone asking if they've tried FBI on preview with these changes - my reply was to say that taking your current gear into FBI after the change will drop the value of your bonding stones from 285% stat transfer to 165% (the new 3x r12 value) which is the equivalent of 2x r9's and a r10 currently. > > I in no way addressed the efficiency of various upgrades.
Thank you for answering, and yeah this is what I was looking for. I'm not a speed runner and was afraid of not being able to run FBI or MSPC like I do now. FBI takes me about 20-30 minutes. MSPC is usually about 45 give or take. Those are perfect times for dungeons. I don't run the lower tier dungeons because I have ran them to death. But now it feels like I am being forced to return to those dungeons. TNG hasn't dropped on ps4 yet, so by the time I actually start getting decent run times on it, POOF, bonding nerf and I won't be able to run it anymore.
So this leaves players like me (higher tier average casual, don't have hours to play except for a few days a week) some rather shittastic options.
Spend money on game to get back lost stats. That's not going to happen. I gladly pay to get stuff for progression. I've sank about a grand into the game in the year I've played. All for stuff that helps my character develop (including bondings and zen to ad to buy the stuff needed to refine them to 12). I'm not buying back stuff I've had. And in that point, my wallet is closed to pretty much everything else in game because it won't be progression from where I am now (I don't consider trying to get back lost stats progression).
I can grind dungeons to make ad. However, the two dungeons that I make somewhat decent ad will now be harder, taking more time to do. Therefore I get less runs in, maybe no runs at all.
Yep, those are my options that are laid out for me pretty much. There is a line between tedious and fun. I love this game because it's fun, one of my favorite of all time. But the second that fun goes away and it becomes tedious, then that's a different story.
FBI takes me about 20-25 minutes (keep in mind, I'm doing it with some of the best players around), and MSP can take anywhere from 25 mins to 1 hour, depending on how little HAMSTER the Nothic Stone-Eye boss gives. TNG can go as fast as those 2 (about 30-35 mins average, what's also their prediction), but I've only ran it in groups of 15-16k players - and we had a LOT of coordination because we could use teamspeak. I've tried it in a pretty good group that didn't have TS. We couldn't get past orcus. Mostly because of the lag on the balls of death. That aside, I'm assuming that in M12b, a TNG run, with a fully optimized build will take about say, 60-75 minutes. So you can daily do 2, maaaaaaybe 3 TNGs (3 if you're a useless member of society and do nothing but play games, and here I am recalling my early summer memories). Add the famous Cryptic RNG into that, and it will literally take a year to get all the major refinement stones to get yourself to a point where you can call yourself "BiS", and that BiS is still much weaker than M12 BiS.
Keep in mind, those 60 minute runs will happen with really good groups. Now, put a slightly weaker group in there. And watch them quit because they can't kill the groups BEFORE orcus, let alone kill orcus. 1.2 billion health isn't okay, cryptic, but that's way off topic. Anyways, what you have created is an even less balanced experience for new players compared to higher tier ones. It's literally the 0.1% of the players that get to enjoy everything the game has to offer. It's like Russia in 1941. all over again.
I hope we are going to get some kind of further response to points raised here, we've heard nothing for quite a while.
You'll note from the threads where devs do engage more, they tend to be more civilised.
I was going to make a joke about changing your name to 'noreplies' but I held off as I didn't think it'd be particularly useful
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I hope we are going to get some kind of further response to points raised here, we've heard nothing for quite a while.
You'll note from the threads where devs do engage more, they tend to be more civilised.
I was going to make a joke about changing your name to 'noreplies' but I held off as I didn't think it'd be particularly useful
My guess is, they're still too busy calculating the losses they got with this. I genuinely have no idea what they're waiting for so I PMed @nitocris83 in hopes of getting a proper response. We'll see how it goes.
> @gromovnipljesak#8234 said: > @noworries#8859@nitocris83@mimicking#6533 > > I hope we are going to get some kind of further response to points raised here, we've heard nothing for quite a while. > > You'll note from the threads where devs do engage more, they tend to be more civilised. > > I was going to make a joke about changing your name to 'noreplies' but I held off as I didn't think it'd be particularly useful > > > My guess is, they're still too busy calculating the losses they got with this. I genuinely have no idea what they're waiting for so I PMed @nitocris83 in hopes of getting a proper response. We'll see how it goes. The losses gained now are gonna be nothing compare to when this goes live lol
Bad time to be a Neverwinter dev at the moment. You have to make changes that you probably disagree with because you maybe actually understand what they mean, and you have to face the community on this. Have to answer some detail points with prepared answers that are in the line of their boss, and avoiding interesting points because their boss don't have any other answer than: "we need more money dude".
You're wrong when you say nobody will get augments, take for example https://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Bulette_Pup, even if only granting 176,5% (no legendary bonus) against, let's say 190% from bondings (in a very good companion in a full run), it's a reliable full time bonus. While a DPS would have no doubt choosing for a tank on the other hand may want that reliability.
Well sure some gona pick augments after that patch - those who use them already - its about 1% of players if not even less, and they gona be true benefiting form those changes. You can add some new players to that picture but only to the point when they will be able to switch for bondings r11-12 witch would be much easier/cheaper to get then it is now.
No one else will bother to waist time and money on them. 176,5% vs 195% =18,5% more, and that is a lot. Add power share to that, add buffs/debuffs normal comapnion adds, add some dps (even if its nearly insignificant), add proccing insignia bonuses. Thats a lot. Heck, powersharing alone is what make bonding first choice. And not for DPS classes only. You trying to say that augments are more reliable to tanks. Just becouse DR is capped and power is not? And who said tanks need only a defence? Sure HP boost is worth considering, but only after tanks gona raise all stats they will be missing after that patch.
Like I said before augments to be resonble choice need much more then that patch will bring, like their active bonuses rework and buffing other runestones even higher then they are planning atm. And even then they gona be hardly comparable to bondings due to that power share issue.
If you lucky to find an Augment that has only 3 defensive Rune slots; I think the most at best have 2. So many Augments are limited to 125%-150% (no legendary bonus) but still it's better than it was before.
Bad time to be a Neverwinter dev at the moment. You have to make changes that you probably disagree with because you maybe actually understand what they mean, and you have to face the community on this. Have to answer some detail points with prepared answers that are in the line of their boss, and avoiding interesting points because their boss don't have any other answer than: "we need more money dude".
What bothers me tho is the fact that they won't get more money tho. It's like this - you either keep stuff as it is, and don't outright profit for it aside from the 2 ranks everyone's getting, and people will buy wards to upgrade stuff to R14 (1% chance). So you do profit over the long run - but it will take time. Profits WILL increase tho. OR, alternatively, you force people to buy stuff, people don't like that, people leave, and therefore your customer base shrinks because the ones who actually paid for bondings (and therefore the biggest spenders) are the ones most influenced by this. You gain some money from the crowd that's not exactly BiS but close to it, but that's it - BiS players can afford anything they need. All things considered, you'll earn a bit more money at the start but that will rapidly decrease with the shrinking playerbase.
The way playerbase decrease works is - let's say in a guild of 100, 10 people leave. Not very significant. But that's still 10%. People accept new players into guilds. Some players complain about things having changed, and some more leave. With so many people leaving, new players will see "oh, old players are leaving, seems like this game is getting abandoned" and they leave too. It's a chain reaction of people leaving. My old guild that had about 15 players active at all times now has 2. My friends list went down to 20 players active on weekends, out of probably 60-70, probably more. I say all of this not to promote leaving, but to put some sense into the devs. I don't care if you want to take our money, just don't take anything else with it. People will give you money for the game we all like playing, people WON'T give you money for this.
Also, about augments, it seems they'll be reworking those runes so they just outright give % of stats regardless of slots.
Well who is to say they won't start introducing Refinement into some Epic Dungeons. The new Daily Random Queues (which they also recently increased AD bonus for each) will now award a 25000 (today) or 2500 (future) refinement stone one time for Epic as a daily reward, plus other Black Perls as you queue for more...
Maybe we'll see a few more Epic Dungeons include RP in chests or more items drops from bosses? We know Bonus RP weekends will expand Refinement rewards during the event from Campaigns, Leadership or the odd Skirmish or Trial that reward them today. The same will likely be true from SoMi treasures awarding possibly twice as much which if you get a Brilliant Diamond is fairly significant. We may also see changes to leadership as well.
Still the whole idea behind R14 is not necessarily to get there overnight; but give something for players to continue to grow their characters over the next 2-4 years. They've already said some dungeons may need to be rebalanced and are likely already looking into it.
Comments
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
What I don't want is to have to spend lots of time just to be able to run content that I can run now. That's a terrible model and deeply demotivating. Surely there must be a better way. Again - why not cap bondings out at rank 12 and make other stones as strong or even stronger over 14. Content can adjust. What you really need to avoid is a situation where content becomes crazy difficult for a while - this is why I think this has the danger of being like mod6.
And please please Cryptic - hire a PR/Comms person to advise how stuff is put out. Even phrasing it along the lines of "here are some options we would like you to consider" would be helpful.
Lastly - this is one change at the same time as a host of changes. It is simply too much all at the same time. Why not take your time with one element, then another, then another? And frankly - fix what people ask for - e.g. bring back the old dungeons as levelling dungeons at minimum. It just really sucks that the levelling story is broken and don't think for a second that doesn't put new players off. I have two friends who are seasoned D&D fans and got put off by that.
Say you have 8x offense slots with Brutals R10 in them and upgrade them all to R12. You've gained 1280 Power and 1280 Crit who equal in total to less than 4% increase to crit and damage. All that for the low low price of about 1M AD per enchant in marks and wards, plus 1.7M additional RP for each, so maybe over 10M AD in total. This is a DISMAL ROI.
At least now the cost is going to be way less to get those levels, while keeping a good margin for further upgrades for the OCD completionist crowd, of which I am a part of unfortunately.
On a side note, I was listening to some music, and I found that one of my fav songs perfectly fits the state of the game right now:
"I have thought
That this will never end
And things go on
But nothing will last
Only the fool in me believes
There is sense in it
In distant shores of green
It's over now"
Hilarious, really. Anyways, I'm still waiting for dev response. I must be the fool from the lyrics.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
See my post above, but it currently makes little sense to upgrade enchants on your character to R12. The cost is huge for a minuscule stats gain. With this change they've made R12 more accessible for casual players but R14 will be mostly restricted to hardcore players, and again that's probably as it should be.
Upgrading those 8x R12 Brutals to R14 with the new update is going to give back a total of 1200 power and crit, so again less than 4% damage and crit. This is FAR from being game-breaking and players who choose to avoid the grind won't see that much difference. Everything should be perfectly playable for them, depending on their skill of course.
Since so many people want to keep a higher stat percentage from Bondings, here is a proposal to allow for that by balancing it with a mechanic that builds the bonus over time and allows a partial benefit to Augments.
They could make Bonding work like the toggle forms in their Champions Online game. Specifically, a stacking buff that starts out with a number of stacks based on total ranks of Bondings equipped. My suggestion is actually for two buffs. One on the player, and one on the companion. I'll call them Companion's Gift on the player and Companion's Might on the companion.
Bondings start at Rank 7, so that would be 1 stack of Companion's Gift on the player and 1 stack of Companion's Might on the companion. One additional stack for each rank, up to 8 stacks of each buff for a Rank 14. All of these stacks are cumulative for multiple Bonding Runestones (based on each stone's rank) and are static. That is to say they are always active as long as the companion is summoned. For example, if you have a Rank 7, a Rank 9, and a Rank 14 Bonding Runestone equipped, that is 1+3+8=12 static stacks of each buff. With three Rank 14s equipped, the number of static stacks is 24.
When your companion activates a power, it grants an additional stack of each buff and refresh all existing stacks. Up to a maximum of 16 additional stacks can be granted, and unless refreshed these stacks last for a duration of 20 seconds. You can gain a maximum of 1 stack every 2 seconds. For the example above with a Rank 7, a Rank 9, and a Rank 14 Bonding Runestone equipped, the maximum number of stacks of each buff is therefore 28. With 3 Rank 14s equipped, the maximum number of stacks is 40.
Companion's Gift: Each stack of Companion's Gift grants you +6% of your companion's stats. With 3 Rank 14 Bonding Runestones equipped, this equates to a static bonus of +144% of your companion's stats, up to +240% at the maximum number of stacks.
Companion's Might: Each stack of Companion's might grants your companion a +8% bonus to outgoing damage, outgoing healing, and control strength. In addition, each time your companion gains or refreshes a stack of Companion's Might it is healed for 8% of it's maximum hit points. With 3 Rank 14 Bonding Runestones equipped, this equates to a static bonus of +192% to your companion's outgoing damage, outgoing healing, and control strength, up to +320% at the maximum number of stacks.
Augments: Since the static stacks of Companion's Gift do not require the companion to activate a power, Augments can apply them. However, with Augments Companion's Gift is less effective. Each stack of Companion's Gift from an Augment grants you +4% of your companion's stats. With 3 Rank 14 Bonding Runestones equipped, this equates to a static bonus of +96% of your companion's stats, for a total of +196%. Since Augments do not activate powers, they cannot gain additional stacks of Companion's Gift and Companion's Might is not applicable to them. In light of this, the defesive bonus for Eldritch Runestones should be changed to something else (ie, Life Steal).
If your companion dies or is unsummoned, the static stacks become subject to the 20 second cooldown, but are re-applied if the companion is re-summoned or revived.
So, you wouldn't have to keep timing your attacks to when the companion's gift kicks in. You would start with a good buff right away, and 32 seconds into combat you would reach the highest stat buff and probably stay there for the entire combat. Augments would be marginally better for short fights against weak opponents (unless there is a source of power sharing), but bondings would be much better for longer fights and bosses. And combat companions might actually be able to contribute in combat.
Obviously, I don't know how easily the code can be borrowed, but the games do share the same engine. And of course, the suggested percentages and such might need to be adjusted. Particularly, Companion's Might may need to be +10% or +12% per stack to make companion's relevant in combat.
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I've been hoarding my stacks of green BtC and BtA res stones for months, and I'll probably have enough RP from this and my stacks of bound QM bags enchants on the first day to build and upgrade a dozen enchants to R13. I have a few dozen MoPs and SMoPs leftover from the last 50% sale to get there. I used all my accumulated AD to convert to Zen last weekend and bought 800 pres wards at 15% off. Is there anything wrong with that? Good planning gets good results.
I got all this from regular play and haven't got any particulrly good drops in months too. No real cash and only 1-2 hours per day of playing. Anyone can do it.
I in no way addressed the efficiency of various upgrades.
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
nothing wrong with planning as you did,
BUT that does not help lower tiered players, or new players, that have not had a chance to accumulated wealth. now even more so they are gonna struggle, and take longer before they can participate in end game content. all this does is to insure that a new player; the moment they realize the amount of grind, or money,,,,they will leave as there is no way to justify them to stay at the ridiculous costs, and time sinks.
there is nowhere near enough endgame content to keep players striving for that goal.
i have one 13.4k GF that is my main. my other toons i have created are still lvling, i have spent over $200 in the past 6months or so. and i still do not have the accumulated wealth for r12's,,,,,let alone these changes which are only gonna drive the costs and time sink even further. NO THANKS. when enchants are costing into the millions, and we are restricted to what 30k rad a day how many days is that grinding to achieve ONE enchant to say r12, how many enchants do we have in our builds? we finally achieve end game and what, 3 dungeons are waiting for us? with horrible loot tables.
as soon as i hit lvl 70, my whole guild and others told me my first priority is to get bonding's, and level the to r12 o.0 still not there yet but hey go ahead move the bar farther away
i want my money back thank you.
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
> Going in with rank 12's would be same the as trying it with rank 9.5's in current - or two rank 9's and a rank 10. It's definitely undergeared.
>
> I suspect most players will avoid it until they've ranked most of their enchantments (inc bondings) to r13 at least.
>
> I really disgree here. I've done the math on my own and getting enchants on your character (not companion) from R10 to R12 is one of less efficient upgrades in this game.
>
> Say you have 8x offense slots with Brutals R10 in them and upgrade them all to R12. You've gained 1280 Power and 1280 Crit who equal in total to less than 4% increase to crit and damage. All that for the low low price of about 1M AD per enchant in marks and wards, plus 1.7M additional RP for each, so maybe over 10M AD in total. This is a DISMAL ROI.
>
> At least now the cost is going to be way less to get those levels, while keeping a good margin for further upgrades for the OCD completionist crowd, of which I am a part of unfortunately.
>
> Yeah I don't think you understood the point I was addressing. It was in reply to someone asking if they've tried FBI on preview with these changes - my reply was to say that taking your current gear into FBI after the change will drop the value of your bonding stones from 285% stat transfer to 165% (the new 3x r12 value) which is the equivalent of 2x r9's and a r10 currently.
>
> I in no way addressed the efficiency of various upgrades.
Thank you for answering, and yeah this is what I was looking for. I'm not a speed runner and was afraid of not being able to run FBI or MSPC like I do now. FBI takes me about 20-30 minutes. MSPC is usually about 45 give or take. Those are perfect times for dungeons. I don't run the lower tier dungeons because I have ran them to death. But now it feels like I am being forced to return to those dungeons. TNG hasn't dropped on ps4 yet, so by the time I actually start getting decent run times on it, POOF, bonding nerf and I won't be able to run it anymore.
So this leaves players like me (higher tier average casual, don't have hours to play except for a few days a week) some rather shittastic options.
Spend money on game to get back lost stats. That's not going to happen. I gladly pay to get stuff for progression. I've sank about a grand into the game in the year I've played. All for stuff that helps my character develop (including bondings and zen to ad to buy the stuff needed to refine them to 12). I'm not buying back stuff I've had. And in that point, my wallet is closed to pretty much everything else in game because it won't be progression from where I am now (I don't consider trying to get back lost stats progression).
I can grind dungeons to make ad. However, the two dungeons that I make somewhat decent ad will now be harder, taking more time to do. Therefore I get less runs in, maybe no runs at all.
Yep, those are my options that are laid out for me pretty much. There is a line between tedious and fun. I love this game because it's fun, one of my favorite of all time. But the second that fun goes away and it becomes tedious, then that's a different story.
Keep in mind, those 60 minute runs will happen with really good groups. Now, put a slightly weaker group in there. And watch them quit because they can't kill the groups BEFORE orcus, let alone kill orcus. 1.2 billion health isn't okay, cryptic, but that's way off topic. Anyways, what you have created is an even less balanced experience for new players compared to higher tier ones.
It's literally the 0.1% of the players that get to enjoy everything the game has to offer. It's like Russia in 1941. all over again.
Removed moderation discussion
I hope we are going to get some kind of further response to points raised here, we've heard nothing for quite a while.
You'll note from the threads where devs do engage more, they tend to be more civilised.
I was going to make a joke about changing your name to 'noreplies' but I held off as I didn't think it'd be particularly useful
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
> @noworries#8859 @nitocris83 @mimicking#6533
>
> I hope we are going to get some kind of further response to points raised here, we've heard nothing for quite a while.
>
> You'll note from the threads where devs do engage more, they tend to be more civilised.
>
> I was going to make a joke about changing your name to 'noreplies' but I held off as I didn't think it'd be particularly useful
>
>
> My guess is, they're still too busy calculating the losses they got with this. I genuinely have no idea what they're waiting for so I PMed @nitocris83 in hopes of getting a proper response. We'll see how it goes.
The losses gained now are gonna be nothing compare to when this goes live lol
[The Legendary Outlaws] (Guildhall 20)
OR, alternatively, you force people to buy stuff, people don't like that, people leave, and therefore your customer base shrinks because the ones who actually paid for bondings (and therefore the biggest spenders) are the ones most influenced by this. You gain some money from the crowd that's not exactly BiS but close to it, but that's it - BiS players can afford anything they need. All things considered, you'll earn a bit more money at the start but that will rapidly decrease with the shrinking playerbase.
The way playerbase decrease works is - let's say in a guild of 100, 10 people leave. Not very significant. But that's still 10%. People accept new players into guilds. Some players complain about things having changed, and some more leave. With so many people leaving, new players will see "oh, old players are leaving, seems like this game is getting abandoned" and they leave too. It's a chain reaction of people leaving. My old guild that had about 15 players active at all times now has 2. My friends list went down to 20 players active on weekends, out of probably 60-70, probably more. I say all of this not to promote leaving, but to put some sense into the devs. I don't care if you want to take our money, just don't take anything else with it. People will give you money for the game we all like playing, people WON'T give you money for this.
Also, about augments, it seems they'll be reworking those runes so they just outright give % of stats regardless of slots.
Maybe we'll see a few more Epic Dungeons include RP in chests or more items drops from bosses? We know Bonus RP weekends will expand Refinement rewards during the event from Campaigns, Leadership or the odd Skirmish or Trial that reward them today. The same will likely be true from SoMi treasures awarding possibly twice as much which if you get a Brilliant Diamond is fairly significant. We may also see changes to leadership as well.
Still the whole idea behind R14 is not necessarily to get there overnight; but give something for players to continue to grow their characters over the next 2-4 years. They've already said some dungeons may need to be rebalanced and are likely already looking into it.