Ya, who is to say that after most of us get back to BIS that they won't find bonding and enchantments in need of another nerf? This fear will prevent spending by anybody other than those with money to burn. No player should have this fear, the bonding nerf should be completely reversed and powersharing and other overpowered buffs slashed instead. Aura of Courage is another broken mechanic that is abused and should be dealt with.
Powershare was originally designed to buff players & companions. Changing how that works would take far more considerable time... and does not encourage the desired effect and really would just be a NERF to support. DPS classes already do a massive amount of DPS in the game, and Bonding stones are 9x or more powerful than any other Rune, but clearly they don't need a correction?
Heck even after the changes to other Runes the R14 Bonding Stone will be more than 5x better than the increased R14 Eldritch or others. This is the best way to limit powershare directly caused by bondings while also correcting the significant lead they held over other Runes. While I was surprised they were planning to limit uptime to 50%, the fact they reversed it will protect maintain powersharing - even if at a lower rate.
If they limited Powershare to only benefit players without Nerfing the buff percentages; which would be the only viable option to consider, it would make the correction you have to bonding now look like nothing. It also would not address the core issue of bondings being far too superior to other equivalently ranked stones.
People wouldn't even talk power share if we only had R12 Eldritch in defense Rune slots. Bondings are the cause (7.9x higher Augmentation boost than an Eldritch) and you also get the higher Offense/Defense buff as well. You just can't have one Rune 9x or even more powerful than any other Rune. Everything else had been relegated to JUNK status for far too long.
My Corellite!
In any MMO if one thing is at a massive advantage, it's clear it needs to be corrected; especially if it's the only thing everybody uses. A game without different choices for different classes/feats/companions or builds would not be exciting. Bondings left alone basically equate to a "God Mode Cheat" being permitted in the game.
There is also the issue of nerfing us and then forcing us to run a dungeon, that was designed around bondings as they are now, to get marks to get back to where we are now. That is a catch 22. TonG is hard now, imagine running it a minimum of 87 times in a gimped state. Most players can't even get invites to it...
Exactly. I love helping new players and 1st runners get through TNG - and I usually take everything slowly and explain it, but I can't carry the group - that's when I involve my guildmates. But now, not only will I not be able to carry, I'd basically drag the group down. I'm a pretty good DPS atm - not top tier, but can carry stuff like FBI. Now imagine literally any other class with lower IL - if they're not HR, CW or GWF, they'd just not be able to do jack due to how underpowered other classes are (especially poor TRs, they deserve a buff of epic proportions). And with Orcus being such a massive tank, you NEED at least one ridiculous single target DPS - not a single 15k HR or GWF could carry that alone. With the bonding nerf... well, you get the point.
so if power creep is the issue, why arent they nerfing the buffs/debuffs of the clerics, guardian fighters, renegade wizards, pallys and warlocks.... oh, cause that would take actual mathematics and proper programming and of course, time. to nerf the bondings, well thats heaps easier and who cares about the painstaking hours players have spent testing and trying to get stats just right and swapping out insignias and enchantments and gear pieces. just putting it back on the players to work it all out is pretty much HAMSTER imo.
nerfing the buffs/debuffs of the clerics...
Do you want me to have a heart attack ? Cos this is how people get heart attacks...
The companions rebuff is a pretty well known issue for years now and one mayor reason why content at BIS level is trivial and also why supporter classes reign NWO. Sry, but a buff getting enhanced for 285% by a companion ?
I wouldn't say support classes reign in NWO - there are just as many DPS classes as well. The fact is it's hard to say because many players have like 3-4 DPS classes and possibly just as many support; but the roles can very depending on feat choices.
Yet I think you hit the issue on TOP of the head. 285% is insanity. A current R12 Eldritch gives 12%, while bonding 95% (7.9x better buff) and it does so while also giving a higher +840 to defense or offense as well. You can't have one Rune offering 9x or more the benefit of every other one out there while others are mostly considered Garbage.
Powershare wouldn't even be a topic if we only had R12 Eldritch. The exploit is solely caused and created by bondings high augment boost.
I know it's considered crazy OP, but returning the Loyal Gear (and not locked behind the hardest content either) would be a nice, conciliatory measure on your part. The Ardent Store needs some love anyway...
We fully understand how big of a topic this is which is why we wanted to get the details out early to get feedback on all of the changes. And feedback certainly has been given! Although these types of topics can get heated due to the passion players have for this game, it is a good thing to see such involvement and discussion from our player base.
There are valid points being brought up through out this discussion. Reading over all of this feedback, from multiple sources, has allowed us to take a look at different perspectives on the bonding issues. Bonding runestones do need an adjustment and we'd like to allow for other companion and runestone choices to not be so underwhelming compared to a bonding companion.
Many of the points brought forward by you is that a 50% up time changes too many dynamics which will drive many players to feeling that an augment pet is the only correct route to play. That is not our intention and not where we want the game to go.
We are going to switch the up time to being able to be 100% (cooldown and up time will match). This will be with the lowered percentages that we presented and seems like the best way to address many of the concerns while still bringing bonding power more in line with where it should be.
Also, we are going to look into switching the offensive effect of Eldritch Runestones to match the defensive effect, meaning that either slot will grant the stat gain (it does mean the AP functionality of the Eldritch Runestone offensive slot is going away). This allows players who would like to use an augment pet with Eldritch Runestones to have a choice in which augment pet to use.
The concerns on dungeon runs/difficulty in the game with any changes to bonding runestones is not unnoticed and something we have been paying attention to internally throughout all of this. We have been doing internal testing on this and look forward to feedback during preview on this very topic.
If that is the case then i'm ok with changes ... I'll start to make my calculation of new share %age at 100% up time then it come on preview to see what i need to change on live for getting back to DR cap ... and other usefull stats ...
And i've seen in another post (sorry if i don't quote you i can't read and remember everything ...) someone proposed to add the companion gift to other rune it could be a solution but at a less higher rate.
On preview last time i checked bonding r12 gave 750 stats + 55% stats sharing, other enchant could give 700 stats and 15% stats sharing, still not the best but would help for balancing maybe ?
Why not giving the companion gift a permanent proc for companion that attack not then they attack but only then present (all except augment and Energon (at least he never proced them for me before)), and for the power creep that is told also along the lines, why not make the stats share (probably the same with the legendary bonus) only take into account the base stats and the item of the companion not the buff on them (except buff from companion influence) ? it'll won't change the current power buffs spells of the game but still limiting the insane amount that you can have ...
Then after this change if the high end is too hard you could start to up the power buff to balance this type of content (or nerf the content ... your choice)
There is multiple solution to the problem, more people to talk about it, more possibilities will arise and make even more idea come forth, making hopefully better decision for everyone to enjoy !
Good day and good luck to find the right thing to do !
If there's one lesson the devs should've learned from mod 10, it's that "if it's too tedious & unrewarding, most players won't bother".
Instead of picking up on this lession, they've rolled it out across the entire game:
Immediate reduction of stats (bondings) - sense of loss Typically, a 3-6 month grind to get back to the same level - sense of tedium Reduced AD earnings so buying/upgrading takes longer - sense of slower progression
Regardless of what I will call "good intentions", the impact on players state of mind toward these changes will be as listed above. The most likely result of players feeling this way will be "I can't be bothered.".
And let's be clear about the random queue system - the vast majority of players will swallow the loss of AD, not run Randoms and focus running content with friends/guildies. As such there will be less help for lower geared players as the better equipped will be more focused on speed in an attempt to make up for the AD loss.
Either Cryptic have no awareness of player mindset, or they believe the loss of players will be offset somehow.
Please Do Not Feed The Trolls
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
so if power creep is the issue, why arent they nerfing the buffs/debuffs of the clerics, guardian fighters, renegade wizards, pallys and warlocks.... oh, cause that would take actual mathematics and proper programming and of course, time. to nerf the bondings, well thats heaps easier and who cares about the painstaking hours players have spent testing and trying to get stats just right and swapping out insignias and enchantments and gear pieces. just putting it back on the players to work it all out is pretty much HAMSTER imo.
The reason is CLEAR. Because the cause is NOT powershare, if we only had R12 Eldrtich the whole discussion would not exist...
If they did even attempt reducing support buff's in be the first nail in the coffer to support classes; so the only alternative would be to limit powershare to players only! Yet if that was done it would make the existing NERF to bonding far worse than it is now; yet would fail to correct the 9x advantage Bonding has over other equally ranked Runes.
The revised Bonding Changes address the cause not the symptom; while still leaving Bonding in a BiS role with 5x benefit. Most will likely maintain 3x Bonding stones in their companion, yet some might now want to pair 2 Bonding with an Empowered or other Rune. Now at least their are some viable options including for Augments.
Many may disagree with me. But my analysis I think is very FAIR & looks at a variety of options or alternatives having worked in technology for 20+ years. I compliment them on finding a solution which addressed the cause of the issue while restoring balance between Bonding and all other Runes in a very fair and appropriate way.
I think those who continue to attack Cyptic's decision are taking it 5 steps too far! It's going beyond debate to just encouraging or promoting TOXIC atmosphere. I'm not saying they will RETHINK the 50% uptime, but your certainly not winning sympathy to your cause. >:)
Honestly as another person stated earlier... ...285% of a companions Rune, Gear & Enchantments that also attacks with 3 or 4 powers, while also getting a dual higher buff of +2520 to offense or defense. That's 11x more powerful than every other Rune and the reason power share is a problem at the very core.
> @strathkin said: > Ya, who is to say that after most of us get back to BIS that they won't find bonding and enchantments in need of another nerf? This fear will prevent spending by anybody other than those with money to burn. No player should have this fear, the bonding nerf should be completely reversed and powersharing and other overpowered buffs slashed instead. Aura of Courage is another broken mechanic that is abused and should be dealt with. > > Powershare was originally designed to buff players & companions. Changing how that works would take far more considerable time... and does not encourage the desired effect and really would just be a NERF to support. DPS classes already do a massive amount of DPS in the game, and Bonding stones are 9x or more powerful than any other Rune, but clearly they don't need a correction? > > Heck even after the changes to other Runes the R14 Bonding Stone will be more than 5x better than the increased R14 Eldritch or others. This is the best way to limit powershare directly caused by bondings while also correcting the significant lead they held over other Runes. While I was surprised they were planning to limit uptime to 50%, the fact they reversed it will protect maintain powersharing - even if at a lower rate. > > If they limited Powershare to only benefit players without Nerfing the buff percentages; which would be the only viable option to consider, it would make the correction you have to bonding now look like nothing. It also would not address the core issue of bondings being far too superior to other equivalently ranked stones. > > People wouldn't even talk power share if we only had R12 Eldritch in defense Rune slots. Bondings are the cause (7.9x higher Augmentation boost than an Eldritch) and you also get the higher Offense/Defense buff as well. You just can't have one Rune 9x or even more powerful than any other Rune. Everything else had been relegated to JUNK status for far too long. > > My Corellite! > > In any MMO if one thing is at a massive advantage, it's clear it needs to be corrected; especially if it's the only thing everybody uses. A game without different choices for different classes/feats/companions or builds would not be exciting. Bondings left alone basically equate to a "God Mode Cheat" being permitted in the game.
wrong, dps do massive damage because of the power share put it this way I'm a bis gwf and with bondings proced and all self buffs my ibs hits for roughly 1.5 mill but when I'm in a power share group in fbi 2×dc and a pally my ibs hits for 35 to 40 mill so ask yourself is it bondings or is it buffs double dipping through your companion?
nerfing bondings will not stop this but stopping companions receiving any buffs from any outside source will fix this, this isn't nerfing any class as the players character will still receive the full buffs from any out side source
DEVELOPERS PLZZZ READ THIS!!! I LOVE NWO! I have put much work in it and it was great fun and enjoyment doing solo stuff or running with friends. Really good game and worth to invest in... That's the reason i want it to be great and continue to grow and i think bonding nerf is very bad move on the part of the company and il try explain why: 1) As devs said reason for nerfing bonds is to FIx their impact on the game's balance... wrong this will change nothing cause once players will get those rank 14 enchants and unparalleled WE the BIS Player will be in slightly better position and so this will achieve nothing... 2) The real problem of the game is "Power Share" that multiplies from companions and gives huge boost to player. If they would fix multiplying effect it will balance the game, bondings would need no interfering and content would be much enjoyble on all lvls and dungens. 3) All the hard content FBI/MSP/MSVA/TONG requires you to have rank 12 bondings and pretty decent build/gear as well as skills To finish in one piece) nerfing bondings will make this content for not perfect groups (aka not every group consists of OP,GF, AC DC, DO DC °And random dps you name it) or low gs people almost unplayable... you won't be able to finish it in under 1 hour even mb and so won't be willing to carry any1 to just get peridot at the end of exhausting 1h+dungeon... (yes reward system is a complete other topic so il stop at that here))). The point is that content was meant to have bondings so it will be much harder to get by for low GS people and whoever was BIS pre nerf and had that 350k+ power on em will still breezee verything regardless so no issue will be fixed. 4) People have grinded their as...es to balance their stats with bondings and enchants and now company decides to just halve what was your hard earned results! There are many reasons people enjoy playing MMOs and i think one of the most important part is to have that deep progression system that you invest your time and effort and get benefited by watching your char getting stronger and achieving this milestones... this move is complete opposite cause progression you made is tempered and you are given option to spend even more time just to get where you were... you don't mess up with peoples hard earned items like that when it was your game design that forced every1 to get them. 5) NWO is great free to play game where you can have decent endgame char if you can understand how the game works and requires from you to do. That said we all understand that for company to deliver this excellent product and create new content needs funding. They don't have to anger so many people by this wrong move to force us just to get where we were lre nerf... every1 eventually would upgrade to rank 14s without this drastic major changes cause they would open so many new char customization options! Solution: Fix the interaction of Power share with companions to repair that broken overpowered party composition. Not only will this allow to balance and make game more fun but also running with 3 dps 1 tank and dc would be valid again so there will be way more variety in gameplay and easyier to make groups. With either changes the dungen lvl difficulty ofc should be changed accordingly. Power share nerf will further push players to strive for rank 14 enchants and unparalled WE to enhance individual character strength. This move is win win for both parties! On one hand players will have new content and strive for new items at the same time their chars would be as strong as they were pre changes but with more opportunities to grow (sounds wonderful to me) on the other hand company will maintain happy player base and earn profit by implementing this changes. Sorry for long post but i care too much for this game to watch it sink like it did in mod 6... don't want anymore exodus... the more people there will be the more money company will generate, as for us we will get continues development of the game. We really can win out of this... all of us...
> @strathkin said: > In any MMO if one thing is at a massive advantage, it's clear it needs to be corrected; especially if it's the only thing everybody uses. A game without different choices for different classes/feats/companions or builds would not be exciting. Bondings left alone basically equate to a "God Mode Cheat" being permitted in the game.
In any MMO, If one thing is a massive advantage, the PRICE goes UP naturally. This makes up for the balancing. You forget to say that bondings cost a millions times more than an eldrich.
Everybody has bondings right now, and 99% of players did not complain about a "lack of choice" concerning this issue. It's even the opposite: Everyone wants to keep this single choice (bondings), as you can overwhelmingly read in the forums. (Well no that they would mind if other altenatives where given to them, like buffed Eldrich..but not taking away what they already worked for)
God Mode Cheat ?! Really ?! Maybe you are talking about the 0,1% of top players who do speedruns. I'm a DC, i've 3xR12 bonding. Every single player of my team has 3xR12 Bondings. We are between iL 11k and 13k. and we still struggle a LOT (2 hours) to finish FBI.
Besides, don't forget that being able to do speedrun is fun. The whole point about gaming is that it's fun. For example, i do speedruns on etos...you might laugh it this, but it suits my item level and my team...
This game is not Call of duty or Doom: it's a cooperative game you play against the AI. Who cares if one item is a bit more powerful than another.... i'm not gonna deny you any AD or loot if i'm more powerful than i should be. It's even the opposite : I can help ppl who normally would not be able to finish CN. It's a cooperative game, not a "versus" game: why do you care if i have 100k power rather than 80k ?
This post is not personnal against you. i'm aware it's written maybe in a personnal talk manner, but it's not my goal (it's because my english is not perfect, sorry about this)
I know it's considered crazy OP, but returning the Loyal Gear (and not locked behind the hardest content either) would be a nice, conciliatory measure on your part. The Ardent Store needs some love anyway...
I think that is the TYPE of feedback they might be at least 'open' to considering in Lieu of the all changes, while perhaps they were overdue and I'd state most are very appropriate.
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gabrieldourdenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,212Arc User
@strathkin : no. I always supported changes so far, I even supported mod6 because it made people rethink the way they played. They say that they want to bring dailies back in line and I support that as dailies should feel special. I even support a tone down of bonding runestones. What I can't stand is the fact that they want to resell us the same power again for the same content. It's not the change itself, it's the attitude. They are slowly streamlining the game so that any progress is tied to buying wards and painful grind. The game is becoming more and more a boring grind and want they offer us is more grind. The next step I expect will be removing coal wards from the Crypt of Piety and tying the whole game to the ZEN market making it a pay-to-advance game.
Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
@strathkin : no. I always supported changes so far, I even supported mod6 because it made people rethink the way they played. They say that they want to bring dailies back in line and I support that as dailies should feel special.
I even support a tone down of bonding runestones. What I can't stand is the fact that they want to resell us the same power again for the same content. It's not the change itself, it's the attitude. They are slowly streamlining the game so that any progress is tied to buying wards and painful grind. The game is becoming more and more a boring grind and want they offer us is more grind. The next step I expect will be removing coal wards from the Crypt of Piety and tying the whole game to the ZEN market making it a pay-to-advance game.
This is basically the perfect sum up and main issue people have for these changes.
It's not just the bonding changes that have hacked me off. It's the refinement changes and the random queue changes too. I'm a console player and I was really looking forward to the new mod and new content. I am almost 13,000 IL and have been working on my companions, bonding and gear so that I can at least attempt the new stuff and get started on it. I main this character, rarely play alts, and have limited time to play now so I tend to do mainly do guild dailies and dungeons, as I have completed all other campaign content and I have most of my boons. I hated SKT, Icewind Dale and rarely go back to RD. Needless to say I have been getting bored with Neverwinter. So I was, repeat WAS, looking forward to the next few months.
I have spent a lot of time and money to get where I am in this game. I had to get bondings as this was the only viable option for progression. I have grinded and grinded to help my guild and to get to this point. I have spent hours, days, weeks, months running mind numbingly, boring, hateful RNG and time gated content. Why? So you can nerf me so i have to do it all again?
I have x 3 rk 11 bonding's ready for upgrade. I just need cash for coal wards. And now you see, here's the thing.... what's the point of spending 3000 zen (just on wards for goodness sake!) ? To get these to 12 when in a couple of months (because it will get to us on console soon enough) for them to be nerfed back to the equivalent of rank 9/10? And then I have to spend a ton more cash again?
I have a dread enchantment which I thought was BiS and I have spent a ton on that. I think I saw a post saying Dreads and Vorpals will be nerfed as a subsequent result of these changes ? So now I need to spend again on upgrading a lightning or something? Millions of AD again...
And to get to rank 14 I need a new mark which only drops in the new dungeon (ToNG) or can be purchased for more AD? I can rarely get in FBI or SVA, let alone MSPC. And you are gonna nerf me so (a) the current content that I can just about do will now be extra difficult and even harder to get into, let alone complete and (b) make it harder to complete the new content which is the only thing I was looking forward to and (c) you are nerfing the AD from dungeons with this ridiculous random q system you want to implement. I like running dungeons. I specifically like running eTos. So I can only run this if i don't random q - which means no AD. Yes sure I might get a bit of salvage. Also green peridots too if I'm lucky! Really ? You really think this is a good thing? And i don't want to even think about pugging with the new system you propose.
And the worst is the deceit of it all. It has nothing to do with power creep or bondings being OP - as console players we are months behind pc and you knew about it within the pc community long before it hit consoles. This is all about greed. Plain and simple.
I have a few weeks of VIP left so I am going to wait for mod 12. And then I'm gone. I'm not staying for 12b. I'm not spending one more dime. You've broken the game. Ciao. Adios. I'm done.
To sum this all up – pretty much everyone I have discussed this change with in the game or online disagrees/hates it. Pretty much all see it as a simple money grab. Now it does not really matter whether the development team are doing this for money or to make the game better; the perception of the potential player base sees it as a money grab. If I was looking now at this game to decide if I wanted to make it my next playing experience, I would check it out online see these comments and pass.
Sometimes people’s perception of a thing is more important than the reality of that thing.
Pushing this change through will just hurt the feelings of the players, your customers – its bad business
The reason is CLEAR. Because the cause is NOT powershare, if we only had R12 Eldrtich the whole discussion would not exist...
If they did even attempt reducing support buff's in be the first nail in the coffer to support classes; so the only alternative would be to limit powershare to players only! Yet if that was done it would make the existing NERF to bonding far worse than it is now; yet would fail to correct the 9x advantage Bonding has over other equally ranked Runes.
The revised Bonding Changes address the cause not the symptom; while still leaving Bonding in a BiS role with 5x benefit. Most will likely maintain 3x Bonding stones in their companion, yet some might now want to pair 2 Bonding with an Empowered or other Rune. Now at least their are some viable options including for Augments.
Many may disagree with me. But my analysis I think is very FAIR & looks at a variety of options or alternatives having worked in technology for 20+ years. I compliment them on finding a solution which addressed the cause of the issue while restoring balance between Bonding and all other Runes in a very fair and appropriate way.
I think those who continue to attack Cyptic's decision are taking it 5 steps too far! It's going beyond debate to just encouraging or promoting TOXIC atmosphere. I'm not saying they will RETHINK the 50% uptime, but your certainly not winning sympathy to your cause. >:)
Honestly as another person stated earlier... ...285% of a companions Rune, Gear & Enchantments that also attacks with 3 or 4 powers, while also getting a dual higher buff of +2520 to offense or defense. That's 11x more powerful than every other Rune and the reason power share is a problem at the very core.
This is what you need to examine. 1st we have a given. a nerf will happen somewhere because of excessive damage in a portion of the players. Shouldn't the change affect MORE that target group and not the 10k-12k who is trying CN with one or no dc? The 12-14k who is trying FBI - SP? The players who are with r9 now and are trying to do dailies? Those are the groups that have "power creep"?? Simple answer NO
Bonding stones change affect everyone but the effect is way harder on low/mid part than on the top. The top will one way or the other make it back to r14... the other players wont adjust that fast and while they wont things will be harder for them. How much? even 1% is unjustified.We are supposed to move forward to the game, not backwards. To have a sense of progression.
Let me put it this way, most everyone here are saying what is NOT supposed to happen. That the easy part. I can say NO TO EVERYTHING too all day long. See? really easy.
Make an actual proposal that can happen in the next 3 weeks and will affect MOSTLY the target group that has the power creep and not the players who already struggle to even get in queues or having hard time doing the content.
Ask yourself this: Where does damage come from? 1st the power not to have diminishing returns (not judging if its right or wrong just stating a fact) 2nd the powershare gives its benefits X4 extra times through the companion 3rd Bonding stones too high as a % since mod 6 (maybe) 4th Buffs having multiplicative nature between them (each skill and from each class multiply with each other) so when we stack buff classes, the numbers increase exponentially
There are others too like weapon damage, skills etc but you really don't want to go there.
So from the above factors we can make a suggestion for 1 change. We need to see which is the major one, in order of effect and also keeping in mind the mid range and lower range groups. For that reason, power not having diminishing returns can stay since we can just eliminate the getting the power from other sources easier.
Buffs having multiplicative nature is helpful in all groups (low end, mid end, high end) because those are player / class based and can develop play style and synergy / strategy with other classes. So we are left with two.
1. bonding stone now (on new mod) offering almost half the stat points (17842) so a loss of 13k points. Even less if we calculate that we will also have r14 on our gears so the neat loss will be from 2300 points to 945 points depending on what gears you use on companion. This also affects multiple stats (what ever the companion offers such as crit armor pen etc which also asks for more money to be spend to adjust loss in stats. Specially armor pen for some.
2. Powesharing through companion using bonding that can give anything from +35k extra stat points to all the way to 210k stat points when you stack classes. To make sure people understand ITS NOT ABOUT DC its about the portion of the powershare that comes from all sources and affects bonding multiplying the powershare to the dps. To conpesate affect classes an adjustment can be made so they will powershare MORE but ONLY to the the players.
So what do we win We can keep bondings at 285% since lowering them doesn't do anything in the long run anyway. The groups that stack 2 dc and pally which is the vast majority on the higher end will have the desired effect of "lowering the damage" while we don't affect the low /mid and portion of the upper part. A good dc will be good dc, a good paly will be good paly. Those things wont change and players can keep their stats that they worked hard. also it will allow for other possible combos To be honest I don't care with what class I will do a dungeon, I want to do a dungeon.
Bringing in line the other ruins and/or augments. Complex subject but really easy to see where the problem is. We have a fact: People most always, will choose the path that gives them the desired result with the least amount of trouble.
You (the devs) wanted to tone down the bonding % as you felt its overpowered compared to others... Agreed. What did you achieve with that? Nothing. Its still better that any other ruin even with others giving more points. How much better? 95% exactly. The amount of stat share it offers. Now you kept saying on the last Stream that is better to tone down one and not raise the others.. I agree, but this is hardly enough and became pointless now.
So unless the other enchants offer the same share % of stats, as bondings do, but different stats (crit, armor pen etc), there is no way that anyone will justify losing 95% more stats from 3 gears and 9 enchants. Would you?
Now here is the catch. Powershare to the companions (again). Neither augment nor other ruins allow the powershare to go through. So you ask the player base to reconsider to switch to either augment and/or other ruins and lose 95% of own stats and 50k++ stats from powershare per source more or less. On top augments don't offer at the current point any support for mount bonuses that trigger by using companions. Even more stat loss.
I want to make something clear as far as I'm concerned. I do agree and promote with almost every other option and not nerfing. Harder content, Tiered dungeons, more dungeons for all, diminishing returns even, anything that makes me feel I'm moving forward and not backward...
But I'm also trying to stay focused to the topic of this thread. The devs wanted a change and a tone down to power creep. Who created that? sure not the players, but nevertheless it exists and the devs want it down. Since this is a given and at this point they will not do any of the above better solutions for x reasons, my goal was to suggest the least worst solution for us players. Trying to choose the lesser evil if you like.
As others showed too with facts and screens the nerf to bonding solved nothing, on contrary it creates problems to a big portion of the players. I think its better to reevaluate and see if we have a better solution for the power creep again given the situation we are now.
One way or the other if we try we will all win something. Better game for us within this situation we are in and the devs will succeed on their goal they set to do. WIN - WIN situation. Players will still upgrade to r14, every DD and their mothers will buy the new artifact, and we will all make our wep / armor to r13, and cryptic will get its money.
You got a better idea that can realistically happen in the given time frame from beta to live ?, Please speak and present the idea. But something that can be done. As I said I want to the old dungeons back? Will that happen now? NO I want legendary dungeons, will that happen now? Lvl 80 and adjusted mobs/bosses? Cant happen. Lets keep it real and within the time frame that we have.. From beta... to live.
Regardless of what I will call "good intentions", the impact on players state of mind toward these changes will be as listed above. The most likely result of players feeling this way will be "I can't be bothered.".
I would tend to agree. I just realized that I am spending a lot less time in the game now than a couple of weeks ago.
I started playing the game on day 1 of open beta (and I still have my Caturday Survivor cloak). When Mod 6 hit, I felt similar to what I feel now - it was a similar situation - I was pretty close to BiS , but the changes that were made then felt like something had been taken away from me. I ended up leaving the game for a year - only came back when the developers had realized they made a mistake and actually made things better.
I don't know what will happen now...I have no plans to leave, but if I do, it will be for good - why play a game, if I do not feel motivated to do so?
And speaking of motivation...
My main is a 16.2K IL DO DC - close to being fully BiS. Now, I do not have a problem getting into ToNG (or T9G, if you prefer). I have had a number of smooth runs there (and a few that were not quite as smooth), but for the last week, I haven't even bothered to go there.
There is a Neverwinter Siege event right now. The last time we had that, I participated with 8 of my alts. Now I just do it with one ... and barely that.
There is a Zen sale right now. In the past I have usually put some money in the game - bought Zen to spend during the 40% or 50% sale events. This time - well, do you think I feel motivated to spend my money?
There is a Zen sale right now. In the past I have usually put some money in the game - bought Zen to spend during the 40% or 50% sale events. This time - well, do you think I feel motivated to spend my money?
I don't think I'm alone.
You are NOT alone. This is the first charge bonus that I have not loaded up on Zen via my credit card. I usually do it in anticipation of upcoming Zen sales like you but this time - nope.
Wait, what? Dread and Vorpal being nerfed? WUT? My main is HR and these are two best weapon enchantments for HR. Please tell me it's not true
I guess what they mean is that with the bonding nerf, getting a 100% crit chance will be difficult or impossible, and since vorpal/dread both require you to crit... then their effectiveness will also be proportionally lower.
This a pain for HRs, as other enchants, feytouched for example, are seriously buggy with our powers. When I had a fey, I was limited to pg, Fox and longstriders, because everything else broke the fey buff.
Just to sum up the changes.
1) we are going to be nerfed to the tune of approx half our offensive pet stats. Major reductions in power - base damage, and crit chance. In my case about 15k power and 7.5k crit.
2) we are very incentivized to buy this back.
3) however with the daily AD queue change, and alts being disqualified due to lack of progression, acquiring "free" AD is going to become difficult.
4) however number 2, on our mains, completing dungeons with decent rewards, fbi tbh., in a timeframe that makes economic sense becomes downgraded. Not to mention the playerbase will be generally poorer, which will negatively impact AH sales and prices.
5) the requirement to run ToNG to acquire vital components for upgrading provides a nice catch22. The solution to which I am expecting will be expensive zenstore packs, to be announced undoubtably as a "gift" to the playerbase by the nice helpful devs, once enough people cry on the forums.
Results: powercreep temporarily solved. End gamers given something to spend their AD on. With a control mechanism - the possibility of an upgrade pack in the future - of ensuring Zen purchases, especially if the zax becomes massively backlogged.
In the interim, people will be switching out enchants to prop up crit, which is always an expensive business, and frustrations will lead to credit card use.
From cryptic's Pov. it's all win.
All I hope is that with this influx of cash, the game content will be improved, and the neglected classes will get an overhaul.
Wait, what? Dread and Vorpal being nerfed? WUT? My main is HR and these are two best weapon enchantments for HR. Please tell me it's not true
I guess what they mean is that with the bonding nerf, getting a 100% crit chance will be difficult or impossible, and since vorpal/dread both require you to crit... then their effectiveness will also be proportionally lower.
This a pain for HRs, as other enchants, feytouched for example, are seriously buggy with our powers. When I had a fey, I was limited to pg, Fox and longstriders, because everything else broke the fey buff.
Not only that, this update in general will make crit-based classes like HR and TR trail behind. Not only because of the bonding nerf, but because of the "upgraded" vorpal and dread. Holy avenger literally gains 9.66% more damage, while vorpal and dread get 5% increased severity and only vorpal gets a slight debuff increase (to 3%, instead of 2%). So it seems like they're trying to kill TRs completely.
How about they just auto rank our bonding 12s to 14.... then we bear no extra cost and remain where we are... let them gain new profits from the newer players whom havent already spent years grinding....
How about they just auto rank our bonding 12s to 14.... then we bear no extra cost and remain where we are... let them gain new profits from the newer players whom havent already spent years grinding....
No because we still wouldn't be nearly as strong. That is literally just a fraction of the stats we have now. 30% less per bonding R12 atm vs R14. That's not a good trade for anyone.
So we basically now just put all our azures to companion? What's the plan? We are crit-based class. Combat path won't be reliable now, since it looses crit chance in favor of crit sev. This is a very grim future we're facing.
Wait, what? Dread and Vorpal being nerfed? WUT? My main is HR and these are two best weapon enchantments for HR. Please tell me it's not true
I guess what they mean is that with the bonding nerf, getting a 100% crit chance will be difficult or impossible, and since vorpal/dread both require you to crit... then their effectiveness will also be proportionally lower.
This a pain for HRs, as other enchants, feytouched for example, are seriously buggy with our powers. When I had a fey, I was limited to pg, Fox and longstriders, because everything else broke the fey buff.
Not only that, this update in general will make crit-based classes like HR and TR trail behind. Not only because of the bonding nerf, but because of the "upgraded" vorpal and dread. Holy avenger literally gains 9.66% more damage, while vorpal and dread get 5% increased severity and only vorpal gets a slight debuff increase (to 3%, instead of 2%). So it seems like they're trying to kill TRs completely.
And i just got my dread to trans... recently... lol .. HAMSTER... i should have went with the holy A... HAMSTER...
> @gromovnipljesak#8234 said: > How about they just auto rank our bonding 12s to 14.... then we bear no extra cost and remain where we are... let them gain new profits from the newer players whom havent already spent years grinding.... > > No because we still wouldn't be nearly as strong. That is literally just a fraction of the stats we have now. 30% less per bonding R12 atm vs R14. That's not a good trade for anyone.
Umm... we all knew a nerf was coming. The stat drop im sure most of us can deal with. Its the extra cost to return to where we currently are thats the issue. Besides, most of the stat loss is made up with other enchants going to 14. Either way it should be an option. Its called feedback, not just what you want. Personally i would be ok with the nerf if i didnt need to spend another 6 months and 30 mil AD to be able to do what i can now. As im sure others would agree. The more options we offer the better chance we have of coming to an agreement we all can live with. Its gonna happen... best to realize it now.
@bratleyray ...ummm no. We can't. Outright losing 12k stats isn't something you can just make up with a few enchant upgrades. You'd have to put on at LEAST 6k more stats on your comp ALONG WITH the R14 upgrade. Besides, just simply changing R12 into R14 is harder than you think.
Comments
Heck even after the changes to other Runes the R14 Bonding Stone will be more than 5x better than the increased R14 Eldritch or others. This is the best way to limit powershare directly caused by bondings while also correcting the significant lead they held over other Runes. While I was surprised they were planning to limit uptime to 50%, the fact they reversed it will protect maintain powersharing - even if at a lower rate.
If they limited Powershare to only benefit players without Nerfing the buff percentages; which would be the only viable option to consider, it would make the correction you have to bonding now look like nothing. It also would not address the core issue of bondings being far too superior to other equivalently ranked stones.
People wouldn't even talk power share if we only had R12 Eldritch in defense Rune slots. Bondings are the cause (7.9x higher Augmentation boost than an Eldritch) and you also get the higher Offense/Defense buff as well. You just can't have one Rune 9x or even more powerful than any other Rune. Everything else had been relegated to JUNK status for far too long.
My Corellite!
In any MMO if one thing is at a massive advantage, it's clear it needs to be corrected; especially if it's the only thing everybody uses. A game without different choices for different classes/feats/companions or builds would not be exciting. Bondings left alone basically equate to a "God Mode Cheat" being permitted in the game.
Exactly. I love helping new players and 1st runners get through TNG - and I usually take everything slowly and explain it, but I can't carry the group - that's when I involve my guildmates. But now, not only will I not be able to carry, I'd basically drag the group down. I'm a pretty good DPS atm - not top tier, but can carry stuff like FBI. Now imagine literally any other class with lower IL - if they're not HR, CW or GWF, they'd just not be able to do jack due to how underpowered other classes are (especially poor TRs, they deserve a buff of epic proportions). And with Orcus being such a massive tank, you NEED at least one ridiculous single target DPS - not a single 15k HR or GWF could carry that alone. With the bonding nerf... well, you get the point.
Do you want me to have a heart attack ? Cos this is how people get heart attacks...
you ll be hearing from my lawyer... =.=
( JK )
Yet I think you hit the issue on TOP of the head. 285% is insanity. A current R12 Eldritch gives 12%, while bonding 95% (7.9x better buff) and it does so while also giving a higher +840 to defense or offense as well. You can't have one Rune offering 9x or more the benefit of every other one out there while others are mostly considered Garbage.
Powershare wouldn't even be a topic if we only had R12 Eldritch. The exploit is solely caused and created by bondings high augment boost.
And i've seen in another post (sorry if i don't quote you i can't read and remember everything ...) someone proposed to add the companion gift to other rune it could be a solution but at a less higher rate.
On preview last time i checked bonding r12 gave 750 stats + 55% stats sharing, other enchant could give 700 stats and 15% stats sharing, still not the best but would help for balancing maybe ?
Why not giving the companion gift a permanent proc for companion that attack not then they attack but only then present (all except augment and Energon (at least he never proced them for me before)), and for the power creep that is told also along the lines, why not make the stats share (probably the same with the legendary bonus) only take into account the base stats and the item of the companion not the buff on them (except buff from companion influence) ? it'll won't change the current power buffs spells of the game but still limiting the insane amount that you can have ...
Then after this change if the high end is too hard you could start to up the power buff to balance this type of content (or nerf the content ... your choice)
There is multiple solution to the problem, more people to talk about it, more possibilities will arise and make even more idea come forth, making hopefully better decision for everyone to enjoy !
Good day and good luck to find the right thing to do !
Instead of picking up on this lession, they've rolled it out across the entire game:
Immediate reduction of stats (bondings) - sense of loss
Typically, a 3-6 month grind to get back to the same level - sense of tedium
Reduced AD earnings so buying/upgrading takes longer - sense of slower progression
Regardless of what I will call "good intentions", the impact on players state of mind toward these changes will be as listed above. The most likely result of players feeling this way will be "I can't be bothered.".
And let's be clear about the random queue system - the vast majority of players will swallow the loss of AD, not run Randoms and focus running content with friends/guildies. As such there will be less help for lower geared players as the better equipped will be more focused on speed in an attempt to make up for the AD loss.
Either Cryptic have no awareness of player mindset, or they believe the loss of players will be offset somehow.
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
If they did even attempt reducing support buff's in be the first nail in the coffer to support classes; so the only alternative would be to limit powershare to players only! Yet if that was done it would make the existing NERF to bonding far worse than it is now; yet would fail to correct the 9x advantage Bonding has over other equally ranked Runes.
The revised Bonding Changes address the cause not the symptom; while still leaving Bonding in a BiS role with 5x benefit. Most will likely maintain 3x Bonding stones in their companion, yet some might now want to pair 2 Bonding with an Empowered or other Rune. Now at least their are some viable options including for Augments.
Many may disagree with me. But my analysis I think is very FAIR & looks at a variety of options or alternatives having worked in technology for 20+ years. I compliment them on finding a solution which addressed the cause of the issue while restoring balance between Bonding and all other Runes in a very fair and appropriate way.
I think those who continue to attack Cyptic's decision are taking it 5 steps too far! It's going beyond debate to just encouraging or promoting TOXIC atmosphere. I'm not saying they will RETHINK the 50% uptime, but your certainly not winning sympathy to your cause. >:)
Honestly as another person stated earlier... ...285% of a companions Rune, Gear & Enchantments that also attacks with 3 or 4 powers, while also getting a dual higher buff of +2520 to offense or defense. That's 11x more powerful than every other Rune and the reason power share is a problem at the very core.
> Ya, who is to say that after most of us get back to BIS that they won't find bonding and enchantments in need of another nerf? This fear will prevent spending by anybody other than those with money to burn. No player should have this fear, the bonding nerf should be completely reversed and powersharing and other overpowered buffs slashed instead. Aura of Courage is another broken mechanic that is abused and should be dealt with.
>
> Powershare was originally designed to buff players & companions. Changing how that works would take far more considerable time... and does not encourage the desired effect and really would just be a NERF to support. DPS classes already do a massive amount of DPS in the game, and Bonding stones are 9x or more powerful than any other Rune, but clearly they don't need a correction?
>
> Heck even after the changes to other Runes the R14 Bonding Stone will be more than 5x better than the increased R14 Eldritch or others. This is the best way to limit powershare directly caused by bondings while also correcting the significant lead they held over other Runes. While I was surprised they were planning to limit uptime to 50%, the fact they reversed it will protect maintain powersharing - even if at a lower rate.
>
> If they limited Powershare to only benefit players without Nerfing the buff percentages; which would be the only viable option to consider, it would make the correction you have to bonding now look like nothing. It also would not address the core issue of bondings being far too superior to other equivalently ranked stones.
>
> People wouldn't even talk power share if we only had R12 Eldritch in defense Rune slots. Bondings are the cause (7.9x higher Augmentation boost than an Eldritch) and you also get the higher Offense/Defense buff as well. You just can't have one Rune 9x or even more powerful than any other Rune. Everything else had been relegated to JUNK status for far too long.
>
> My Corellite!
>
> In any MMO if one thing is at a massive advantage, it's clear it needs to be corrected; especially if it's the only thing everybody uses. A game without different choices for different classes/feats/companions or builds would not be exciting. Bondings left alone basically equate to a "God Mode Cheat" being permitted in the game.
wrong, dps do massive damage because of the power share put it this way I'm a bis gwf and with bondings proced and all self buffs my ibs hits for roughly 1.5 mill but when I'm in a power share group in fbi 2×dc and a pally my ibs hits for 35 to 40 mill so ask yourself is it bondings or is it buffs double dipping through your companion?
nerfing bondings will not stop this but stopping companions receiving any buffs from any outside source will fix this, this isn't nerfing any class as the players character will still receive the full buffs from any out side source
I have put much work in it and it was great fun and enjoyment doing solo stuff or running with friends. Really good game and worth to invest in...
That's the reason i want it to be great and continue to grow and i think bonding nerf is very bad move on the part of the company and il try explain why:
1) As devs said reason for nerfing bonds is to FIx their impact on the game's balance... wrong this will change nothing cause once players will get those rank 14 enchants and unparalleled WE the BIS Player will be in slightly better position and so this will achieve nothing...
2) The real problem of the game is "Power Share" that multiplies from companions and gives huge boost to player. If they would fix multiplying effect it will balance the game, bondings would need no interfering and content would be much enjoyble on all lvls and dungens.
3) All the hard content FBI/MSP/MSVA/TONG requires you to have rank 12 bondings and pretty decent build/gear as well as skills To finish in one piece) nerfing bondings will make this content for not perfect groups (aka not every group consists of OP,GF, AC DC, DO DC °And random dps you name it) or low gs people almost unplayable... you won't be able to finish it in under 1 hour even mb and so won't be willing to carry any1 to just get peridot at the end of exhausting 1h+dungeon... (yes reward system is a complete other topic so il stop at that here))). The point is that content was meant to have bondings so it will be much harder to get by for low GS people and whoever was BIS pre nerf and had that 350k+ power on em will still breezee verything regardless so no issue will be fixed.
4) People have grinded their as...es to balance their stats with bondings and enchants and now company decides to just halve what was your hard earned results! There are many reasons people enjoy playing MMOs and i think one of the most important part is to have that deep progression system that you invest your time and effort and get benefited by watching your char getting stronger and achieving this milestones... this move is complete opposite cause progression you made is tempered and you are given option to spend even more time just to get where you were... you don't mess up with peoples hard earned items like that when it was your game design that forced every1 to get them.
5) NWO is great free to play game where you can have decent endgame char if you can understand how the game works and requires from you to do. That said we all understand that for company to deliver this excellent product and create new content needs funding. They don't have to anger so many people by this wrong move to force us just to get where we were lre nerf... every1 eventually would upgrade to rank 14s without this drastic major changes cause they would open so many new char customization options!
Solution: Fix the interaction of Power share with companions to repair that broken overpowered party composition. Not only will this allow to balance and make game more fun but also running with 3 dps 1 tank and dc would be valid again so there will be way more variety in gameplay and easyier to make groups. With either changes the dungen lvl difficulty ofc should be changed accordingly. Power share nerf will further push players to strive for rank 14 enchants and unparalled WE to enhance individual character strength. This move is win win for both parties! On one hand players will have new content and strive for new items at the same time their chars would be as strong as they were pre changes but with more opportunities to grow (sounds wonderful to me) on the other hand company will maintain happy player base and earn profit by implementing this changes.
Sorry for long post but i care too much for this game to watch it sink like it did in mod 6... don't want anymore exodus... the more people there will be the more money company will generate, as for us we will get continues development of the game. We really can win out of this... all of us...
> In any MMO if one thing is at a massive advantage, it's clear it needs to be corrected; especially if it's the only thing everybody uses. A game without different choices for different classes/feats/companions or builds would not be exciting. Bondings left alone basically equate to a "God Mode Cheat" being permitted in the game.
In any MMO, If one thing is a massive advantage, the PRICE goes UP naturally. This makes up for the balancing. You forget to say that bondings cost a millions times more than an eldrich.
Everybody has bondings right now, and 99% of players did not complain about a "lack of choice" concerning this issue. It's even the opposite: Everyone wants to keep this single choice (bondings), as you can overwhelmingly read in the forums. (Well no that they would mind if other altenatives where given to them, like buffed Eldrich..but not taking away what they already worked for)
God Mode Cheat ?! Really ?! Maybe you are talking about the 0,1% of top players who do speedruns. I'm a DC, i've 3xR12 bonding. Every single player of my team has 3xR12 Bondings. We are between iL 11k and 13k. and we still struggle a LOT (2 hours) to finish FBI.
Besides, don't forget that being able to do speedrun is fun. The whole point about gaming is that it's fun. For example, i do speedruns on etos...you might laugh it this, but it suits my item level and my team...
This game is not Call of duty or Doom: it's a cooperative game you play against the AI. Who cares if one item is a bit more powerful than another.... i'm not gonna deny you any AD or loot if i'm more powerful than i should be. It's even the opposite : I can help ppl who normally would not be able to finish CN. It's a cooperative game, not a "versus" game: why do you care if i have 100k power rather than 80k ?
This post is not personnal against you. i'm aware it's written maybe in a personnal talk manner, but it's not my goal (it's because my english is not perfect, sorry about this)
I even support a tone down of bonding runestones. What I can't stand is the fact that they want to resell us the same power again for the same content. It's not the change itself, it's the attitude. They are slowly streamlining the game so that any progress is tied to buying wards and painful grind. The game is becoming more and more a boring grind and want they offer us is more grind. The next step I expect will be removing coal wards from the Crypt of Piety and tying the whole game to the ZEN market making it a pay-to-advance game.
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
I have spent a lot of time and money to get where I am in this game. I had to get bondings as this was the only viable option for progression. I have grinded and grinded to help my guild and to get to this point. I have spent hours, days, weeks, months running mind numbingly, boring, hateful RNG and time gated content. Why? So you can nerf me so i have to do it all again?
I have x 3 rk 11 bonding's ready for upgrade. I just need cash for coal wards. And now you see, here's the thing.... what's the point of spending 3000 zen (just on wards for goodness sake!) ? To get these to 12 when in a couple of months (because it will get to us on console soon enough) for them to be nerfed back to the equivalent of rank 9/10? And then I have to spend a ton more cash again?
I have a dread enchantment which I thought was BiS and I have spent a ton on that. I think I saw a post saying Dreads and Vorpals will be nerfed as a subsequent result of these changes ? So now I need to spend again on upgrading a lightning or something? Millions of AD again...
And to get to rank 14 I need a new mark which only drops in the new dungeon (ToNG) or can be purchased for more AD? I can rarely get in FBI or SVA, let alone MSPC. And you are gonna nerf me so (a) the current content that I can just about do will now be extra difficult and even harder to get into, let alone complete and (b) make it harder to complete the new content which is the only thing I was looking forward to and (c) you are nerfing the AD from dungeons with this ridiculous random q system you want to implement. I like running dungeons. I specifically like running eTos. So I can only run this if i don't random q - which means no AD. Yes sure I might get a bit of salvage. Also green peridots too if I'm lucky! Really ? You really think this is a good thing? And i don't want to even think about pugging with the new system you propose.
And the worst is the deceit of it all. It has nothing to do with power creep or bondings being OP - as console players we are months behind pc and you knew about it within the pc community long before it hit consoles. This is all about greed. Plain and simple.
I have a few weeks of VIP left so I am going to wait for mod 12. And then I'm gone. I'm not staying for 12b. I'm not spending one more dime. You've broken the game. Ciao. Adios. I'm done.
Sometimes people’s perception of a thing is more important than the reality of that thing.
Pushing this change through will just hurt the feelings of the players, your customers – its bad business
Have fun all
Bonding stones change affect everyone but the effect is way harder on low/mid part than on the top. The top will one way or the other make it back to r14... the other players wont adjust that fast and while they wont things will be harder for them. How much? even 1% is unjustified.We are supposed to move forward to the game, not backwards. To have a sense of progression.
Let me put it this way, most everyone here are saying what is NOT supposed to happen. That the easy part. I can say NO TO EVERYTHING too all day long. See? really easy.
Make an actual proposal that can happen in the next 3 weeks and will affect MOSTLY the target group that has the power creep and not the players who already struggle to even get in queues or having hard time doing the content.
Ask yourself this: Where does damage come from?
1st the power not to have diminishing returns (not judging if its right or wrong just stating a fact)
2nd the powershare gives its benefits X4 extra times through the companion
3rd Bonding stones too high as a % since mod 6 (maybe)
4th Buffs having multiplicative nature between them (each skill and from each class multiply with each other) so when we stack buff classes, the numbers increase exponentially
There are others too like weapon damage, skills etc but you really don't want to go there.
So from the above factors we can make a suggestion for 1 change. We need to see which is the major one, in order of effect and also keeping in mind the mid range and lower range groups. For that reason, power not having diminishing returns can stay since we can just eliminate the getting the power from other sources easier.
Buffs having multiplicative nature is helpful in all groups (low end, mid end, high end) because those are player / class based and can develop play style and synergy / strategy with other classes. So we are left with two.
1. bonding stone now (on new mod) offering almost half the stat points (17842) so a loss of 13k points. Even less if we calculate that we will also have r14 on our gears so the neat loss will be from 2300 points to 945 points depending on what gears you use on companion. This also affects multiple stats (what ever the companion offers such as crit armor pen etc which also asks for more money to be spend to adjust loss in stats. Specially armor pen for some.
2. Powesharing through companion using bonding that can give anything from +35k extra stat points to all the way to 210k stat points when you stack classes. To make sure people understand ITS NOT ABOUT DC its about the portion of the powershare that comes from all sources and affects bonding multiplying the powershare to the dps. To conpesate affect classes an adjustment can be made so they will powershare MORE but ONLY to the the players.
So what do we win We can keep bondings at 285% since lowering them doesn't do anything in the long run anyway. The groups that stack 2 dc and pally which is the vast majority on the higher end will have the desired effect of "lowering the damage" while we don't affect the low /mid and portion of the upper part. A good dc will be good dc, a good paly will be good paly. Those things wont change and players can keep their stats that they worked hard. also it will allow for other possible combos To be honest I don't care with what class I will do a dungeon, I want to do a dungeon.
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Bringing in line the other ruins and/or augments. Complex subject but really easy to see where the problem is.
We have a fact: People most always, will choose the path that gives them the desired result with the least amount of trouble.
You (the devs) wanted to tone down the bonding % as you felt its overpowered compared to others... Agreed. What did you achieve with that? Nothing. Its still better that any other ruin even with others giving more points. How much better? 95% exactly. The amount of stat share it offers. Now you kept saying on the last Stream that is better to tone down one and not raise the others.. I agree, but this is hardly enough and became pointless now.
So unless the other enchants offer the same share % of stats, as bondings do, but different stats (crit, armor pen etc), there is no way that anyone will justify losing 95% more stats from 3 gears and 9 enchants. Would you?
Now here is the catch. Powershare to the companions (again).
Neither augment nor other ruins allow the powershare to go through. So you ask the player base to reconsider to switch to either augment and/or other ruins and lose 95% of own stats and 50k++ stats from powershare per source more or less. On top augments don't offer at the current point any support for mount bonuses that trigger by using companions. Even more stat loss.
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I want to make something clear as far as I'm concerned. I do agree and promote with almost every other option and not nerfing. Harder content, Tiered dungeons, more dungeons for all, diminishing returns even, anything that makes me feel I'm moving forward and not backward...
But I'm also trying to stay focused to the topic of this thread. The devs wanted a change and a tone down to power creep. Who created that? sure not the players, but nevertheless it exists and the devs want it down. Since this is a given and at this point they will not do any of the above better solutions for x reasons, my goal was to suggest the least worst solution for us players. Trying to choose the lesser evil if you like.
As others showed too with facts and screens the nerf to bonding solved nothing, on contrary it creates problems to a big portion of the players. I think its better to reevaluate and see if we have a better solution for the power creep again given the situation we are now.
One way or the other if we try we will all win something. Better game for us within this situation we are in and the devs will succeed on their goal they set to do. WIN - WIN situation. Players will still upgrade to r14, every DD and their mothers will buy the new artifact, and we will all make our wep / armor to r13, and cryptic will get its money.
You got a better idea that can realistically happen in the given time frame from beta to live ?,
Please speak and present the idea.
But something that can be done. As I said I want to the old dungeons back? Will that happen now? NO I want legendary dungeons, will that happen now? Lvl 80 and adjusted mobs/bosses? Cant happen. Lets keep it real and within the time frame that we have.. From beta... to live.
Thank you
Wait, what? Dread and Vorpal being nerfed? WUT? My main is HR and these are two best weapon enchantments for HR. Please tell me it's not true
I started playing the game on day 1 of open beta (and I still have my Caturday Survivor cloak). When Mod 6 hit, I felt similar to what I feel now - it was a similar situation - I was pretty close to BiS , but the changes that were made then felt like something had been taken away from me. I ended up leaving the game for a year - only came back when the developers had realized they made a mistake and actually made things better.
I don't know what will happen now...I have no plans to leave, but if I do, it will be for good - why play a game, if I do not feel motivated to do so?
And speaking of motivation...
My main is a 16.2K IL DO DC - close to being fully BiS. Now, I do not have a problem getting into ToNG (or T9G, if you prefer). I have had a number of smooth runs there (and a few that were not quite as smooth), but for the last week, I haven't even bothered to go there.
There is a Neverwinter Siege event right now. The last time we had that, I participated with 8 of my alts. Now I just do it with one ... and barely that.
There is a Zen sale right now. In the past I have usually put some money in the game - bought Zen to spend during the 40% or 50% sale events. This time - well, do you think I feel motivated to spend my money?
I don't think I'm alone.
On that note, have you reconsidered anything? It's the best path to go, really. Just, avoid the massive nerf.
This a pain for HRs, as other enchants, feytouched for example, are seriously buggy with our powers. When I had a fey, I was limited to pg, Fox and longstriders, because everything else broke the fey buff.
Just to sum up the changes.
1) we are going to be nerfed to the tune of approx half our offensive pet stats. Major reductions in power - base damage, and crit chance. In my case about 15k power and 7.5k crit.
2) we are very incentivized to buy this back.
3) however with the daily AD queue change, and alts being disqualified due to lack of progression, acquiring "free" AD is going to become difficult.
4) however number 2, on our mains, completing dungeons with decent rewards, fbi tbh., in a timeframe that makes economic sense becomes downgraded. Not to mention the playerbase will be generally poorer, which will negatively impact AH sales and prices.
5) the requirement to run ToNG to acquire vital components for upgrading provides a nice catch22. The solution to which I am expecting will be expensive zenstore packs, to be announced undoubtably as a "gift" to the playerbase by the nice helpful devs, once enough people cry on the forums.
Results: powercreep temporarily solved. End gamers given something to spend their AD on. With a control mechanism - the possibility of an upgrade pack in the future - of ensuring Zen purchases, especially if the zax becomes massively backlogged.
In the interim, people will be switching out enchants to prop up crit, which is always an expensive business, and frustrations will lead to credit card use.
From cryptic's Pov. it's all win.
All I hope is that with this influx of cash, the game content will be improved, and the neglected classes will get an overhaul.
[The Legendary Outlaws] (Guildhall 20)
So we basically now just put all our azures to companion? What's the plan? We are crit-based class. Combat path won't be reliable now, since it looses crit chance in favor of crit sev. This is a very grim future we're facing.
And i just got my dread to trans... recently... lol .. HAMSTER... i should have went with the holy A... HAMSTER...
> How about they just auto rank our bonding 12s to 14.... then we bear no extra cost and remain where we are... let them gain new profits from the newer players whom havent already spent years grinding....
>
> No because we still wouldn't be nearly as strong. That is literally just a fraction of the stats we have now. 30% less per bonding R12 atm vs R14. That's not a good trade for anyone.
Umm... we all knew a nerf was coming. The stat drop im sure most of us can deal with. Its the extra cost to return to where we currently are thats the issue. Besides, most of the stat loss is made up with other enchants going to 14. Either way it should be an option. Its called feedback, not just what you want. Personally i would be ok with the nerf if i didnt need to spend another 6 months and 30 mil AD to be able to do what i can now. As im sure others would agree. The more options we offer the better chance we have of coming to an agreement we all can live with. Its gonna happen... best to realize it now.
[The Legendary Outlaws] (Guildhall 20)
...ummm no. We can't. Outright losing 12k stats isn't something you can just make up with a few enchant upgrades. You'd have to put on at LEAST 6k more stats on your comp ALONG WITH the R14 upgrade. Besides, just simply changing R12 into R14 is harder than you think.