You take overall stats away from decreasing bondingstone effectiveness, don't add anything to make other runestones viable and then compensate the entire mess with the ability to create r14. So in the end we will be able to rank our enchantments for no overall gain to rank 14, increasing the gap between new players and end game players even further.
The change should be adjustement of the bondings curve with a diminishing return for higher ranks giving a marginal overall increase at 14 (i.e. r14 = flat 100% vs current 95% r12).
Then rework the other runestone bonuses in such a way that they are viable alternatives by massively increasing the stats they provide towards a point where they provide a yield exactly the same amount of stats bonding boosted stats provide (my current stats are 1000 arm pen, 4200 crit and 7200 power, those would be transferred at 300% with full bondings so total stats a r14 runestone should provide are 12400.
To further increase the viability of all other runestones using multiple of the same type of runestone could have the second one incur an effectiveness penalty of say 25% and the third one 50%.
But who am I kidding history proofs that this will go live as presented, we'll suffer for it and it will be fixed in half a year or later.
*sigh*
You really don't get it, everyone whining about this still doesn't get it.
No-one ASKED for this, it was GOING to happen sooner or later.
The entire point of this is to reduce the stat gain from Bondings to an appropriate level, making them more in line with content rather than, as people seem to still believe despite mountains of evidence to the contrary, that content was made for Bondings as they are.
The new system of R14 is designed not only to bring Bondings in line but bring other Runestones closer to being more useful than they currently are. On top of that new values across the board and the new ranks bring slight gains to all slotted enchants.
No-one told or forced you to spend money so any financial loss you suffer is on you and you alone. I have spent a grand total of $30 in the past 4 years on the game and I have well into the double (actually triple) digits of active characters to gear.
Most of them are 16.5-17k, not the ones on console though, with which this new system will greatly assist me in improving.
The other Runestones btw, are having their stats doubled.
Wow, you are hardcore. That is sad.
You are right, those of us that paid money on this stuff were foolish. Solution, don't pay them anymore money. Problem solved. Good business plan Crytpic/Perfect World.
I will probably still play this game, until it proves to be unplayable, but now I will be what you hate most in the world. A free player.
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arcanjo86Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,093Arc User
We fully understand how big of a topic this is which is why we wanted to get the details out early to get feedback on all of the changes. And feedback certainly has been given! Although these types of topics can get heated due to the passion players have for this game, it is a good thing to see such involvement and discussion from our player base.
There are valid points being brought up through out this discussion. Reading over all of this feedback, from multiple sources, has allowed us to take a look at different perspectives on the bonding issues. Bonding runestones do need an adjustment and we'd like to allow for other companion and runestone choices to not be so underwhelming compared to a bonding companion.
Many of the points brought forward by you is that a 50% up time changes too many dynamics which will drive many players to feeling that an augment pet is the only correct route to play. That is not our intention and not where we want the game to go.
We are going to switch the up time to being able to be 100% (cooldown and up time will match). This will be with the lowered percentages that we presented and seems like the best way to address many of the concerns while still bringing bonding power more in line with where it should be.
Also, we are going to look into switching the offensive effect of Eldritch Runestones to match the defensive effect, meaning that either slot will grant the stat gain (it does mean the AP functionality of the Eldritch Runestone offensive slot is going away). This allows players who would like to use an augment pet with Eldritch Runestones to have a choice in which augment pet to use.
The concerns on dungeon runs/difficulty in the game with any changes to bonding runestones is not unnoticed and something we have been paying attention to internally throughout all of this. We have been doing internal testing on this and look forward to feedback during preview on this very topic.
We fully understand how big of a topic this is which is why we wanted to get the details out early to get feedback on all of the changes. And feedback certainly has been given! Although these types of topics can get heated due to the passion players have for this game, it is a good thing to see such involvement and discussion from our player base.
There are valid points being brought up through out this discussion. Reading over all of this feedback, from multiple sources, has allowed us to take a look at different perspectives on the bonding issues. Bonding runestones do need an adjustment and we'd like to allow for other companion and runestone choices to not be so underwhelming compared to a bonding companion.
Many of the points brought forward by you is that a 50% up time changes too many dynamics which will drive many players to feeling that an augment pet is the only correct route to play. That is not our intention and not where we want the game to go.
We are going to switch the up time to being able to be 100% (cooldown and up time will match). This will be with the lowered percentages that we presented and seems like the best way to address many of the concerns while still bringing bonding power more in line with where it should be.
Also, we are going to look into switching the offensive effect of Eldritch Runestones to match the defensive effect, meaning that either slot will grant the stat gain (it does mean the AP functionality of the Eldritch Runestone offensive slot is going away). This allows players who would like to use an augment pet with Eldritch Runestones to have a choice in which augment pet to use.
The concerns on dungeon runs/difficulty in the game with any changes to bonding runestones is not unnoticed and something we have been paying attention to internally throughout all of this. We have been doing internal testing on this and look forward to feedback during preview on this very topic.
have you ever thought on giving the companion gifts effect to all runes, and just gives us runes with power/crit/recovery/arm pen for the offence slots,
defence, deflection, regen, lifesteal on defence slots
and some special runes with + %income healing, +%cc, +%cc resist, +%stamina gain, +%gold gain, +%ca damage bonus, +%aoe resistance, +%comapnion influence, +%movement
the training runes are obsolete in the game we no longer need them
Well, as a long time player with 6 playable alts and an extra set of bondings loaned to a friend (yeah 21 R 12s) i feel slightly screwed.
On the other hand, the new content is so unrewarding, that I stopped spending much time in game anyway. But dont worry about long time players leaving the game. There is not one beta player from my friend list, who plays regulary anymore. Even of the guys who played for a few years, most have stopped.
As it is a few players have BIS gear. they claim, that they want to level the playing field. Yeah right. How wmany players will be able to upgrade to R14. How many players will bother to do it. The gear gap will get worse.
Do you really think, that I (or anyone else) will abandon my main and upgrade my DC and my GF from R12s to R14s, so the shortage of GFs and DCs will not get worse, think again.
Wanting to give players other options to run rather than bondings, yet still claiming bondings will be BiS and not buffing the other runestones to still even compare to them is just them trying to mask what this really is, a money grab where they are just going to try to sell us back what we already had, and apparently at a higher cost. That is all this is, it is not to balance the game. If they wanted to do that then they would enhance other things to the same level as bondings or put in new tiers of dungeons. Or fix the glitches, that would be nice. In MSPC yesterday, 2 Kabals popped at the same time. Speaking of MSPC, I'm a 15.2k dps and run with similar leveled people. It still takes my group 40-60 minutes to run that dungeon, and we are all running rank 12 bondings. With these changes that time will double, and for what? Bound gear, peridots? I've never been able to afford a legendary mount as I have always invested in refining my gear, so what makes you think I can afford or be willing to afford 30+ million to get to exactly where I am now?
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santralafaxMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,896Arc User
Something I don't think the devs *adequately* understand is that we've spent many hours and many millions of AD balancing our toons around bondings. Whether to get the 1.25 mil ad crit insignia or the 1.5 mil dominance insignia, etc. Whether to rank up azures or brutals, etc. There is much more to it than simply being at rank 14 enchantments the very next day with the same stats.
Every high-level character is now going to be doing 52 card pickup, in most cases for months. I see a drove of rage-quitting on the way.
9
santralafaxMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,896Arc User
The bonding itself is not an issue. You have to understand they try to nerf the excessive power that some combos and groups have and by doing so they will nerf everyone with the bonding nerf.
Contrary to popular belief not all groups run optimal, but those are the ones that will get hurt the most. As it has been showcased here the bonding nerf has almost zero effect on the upper level groups and maximum effect on the lower part. Not everyone runs with 2 dc AND pally. Sometimes by choice as they prefer to run with friends regardless the class they play or because they cant find people in a given time frame.
So now we wont be able to hit 280k power or 300k but we can hit 230k - 250k... How is the bonding nerf affected that? Zero In 3-4 months (or more) we will be exactly where we are now and in mod 13 we will be looking at another nerf because of the excessive power creep... déjà vu much?
We all need to realize that a nerf will happen, if it is so, at least we can make suggestions for the right one, for one that doesn't affect people that do dailies or solo grind, for no good reason, or don't have optimal groups. Don't get me wrong, the content will be manageable anyhow with good players.
The real question I'm asking is Why this particular change that it makes it harder on the lower and mid end and doesn't affect much the upper end and not the other way around. That's where the power creep is more evident, not on the 10-12k groups that are trying to do CN, not at the 12k - 14k that are trying to do FBI- SP. Cryptic will still make money with r14s and upgrades anyway. Every dps will buy that artifact and all will like the r13 weapon enchants.
I don't buy that power-creep is the reason for this. They give us more power every half-mod. They add insignias, stronger weapons, stronger armors, etc. Chult was the one case where the armor wasn't much better than vivified, but all the lower armors were made obsolete by Pilgrims, which is better than Relic gear (unvivified.)
The only way to keep the up to the purpose of using other stones is to nerf bonds more and buff other stones more. Or to produce new dungeons and dragons and buff bonds as well. Increase the lvl of players and mobs, create new, not "redevelop" already exsisting stuff
Power creep is definitely not the issue their addressing. Just money. Probably lot quarterlies or something. I would be fine if bondings stayed at rank 12 and nerfed just a bit but still that's not the issue. I know many people with similar or higher gear than I have yet very few can outperform me. This isn't due to just bondings but class knowledge, skills, etc. You guys look at the top 5% of the players who post vids and now every one thinks theyre class or gear needs a nerf when such isn't completely true. I can pug a group from one of the zerg channels right now near bis and they completely suck compared to the next group where we're all similarly geared and everyone synergizes. So now you have people fearing a nerf for their class for something they've worked hard for but you announced bondings and took it even further with this ridiculous cash grab. If you really want to fix this then STOP selling us items that increase power creep in the first place. But you can't because that's where your revenue lies. This game is stuck because they can't stop now because they've gone waaaay too far with it. Now you have to make content harder to make up for it but it still alienates the people who are nowhere near bis.i commend the devs for introducing a variety of top end gear to compensate for the lack of options that used to be there but now I think the main thing here is finding a way to create more revenue without hurting end gamers and beginners. Nerfing bondings may be a step in the right direction but please to God don't sell us what we've already had. Nerfing power share would hurt the DC/op. Making power share a % buff might in fact hurt do dcs depending on buff percentages, who knows. But please don't kill any one class/path just to get cash in your pockets. You've guys been amazing the last two-three mods listening to us as opposed to the past. Please don't take that trust away from us now. This game alone made me stop investing in console games. I'd rather it stay that way due to how fun it is.
The thing that the game almost died just before the console release. And they been nice since so we've started to trust them and donate to support. But this is not the first time they're doing such buff, and with the release of Destiny and Tera, BDo soon it's the only way they see and already used to get a lot of money before the game dies. Why a lot of skills and builds still don't work anywhere close to what is written? Why pvp hasn't been actually reworked for years? All console players have, by now, reached the cap, where pc players roughly came in 3-4 years. Why is that you think? So we could spend more, and then, this patch, looks absolutely legit from the business side perspective.
But where all the money goes? All these changes could have been made just as a simple 2 week update, but they've been working for months, or so they say.
Man I'd throw even more money at this game if they continued to fix issues brought up long ago. Such as class features. Now that they've fixed gf's protector capstone or so they say I actually was planning on gearing him up. Bondings and everything but scratch that. It would have to go into getting my hr some of his stats back and even then that would be only if I continued playing. They can make all this new content and increase power creep and a resell power but they won't give us our old dungeons back. Which I'm fine with due to today's endgame. I wouldn't be surprised if they nerfed la gear. The thing about me not having room to grow due to power creep or whatever is that the could've fix this during the last rework. Instead they made them even more powerful. You guys knew what you were doing. We knew they were going to be nerfed but to this degree that you'd resell us some of their stats and only after about two years of the last rework? Was I supposed to stick with augment just to continue getting kicked out of groups? Or to have dungeons last eon's longer due to not being strong enough to run with competent groups? The answer is simple. Either reintroduce diminishing returns or continue to scale content so you don't alienate us completely. If you introduce diminishing returns you can't sell us anymore pretty creep so that would be an issue. There has to be a more justified way of you gaining money from us without stabbing us in the back.
So after reading through all these threads, and pages of comments, as a fairly newish player (about 6 months) i have currently spent about $250 (real money) to get myself geared up enough to effectively play for my level I am a GF with ilvl 3.2K. my Bondings are only r10s, as the cost of r12's is friggen stupid for casual play!!! The biggest issue in my opinion, the issue that is not being addressed is the COST of all these enchantments, we are talking millions of AD,,,,many millions. WAY more that a casual players wants to even contemplate spending, time, money or resources on. the time to earn enough AD to upgrade ALL of our enchants is stupid and immensely time consuming, and expensive as all hell, even augmenting with real cash. now add in trying different builds, or different companions different enchants, the costs just keep pilling up, and up, and up and UP!!!! forget about trying to build a ALT, cant afford it!!! if new players ask if the game is worth playing, at this point i say NO, the grind, the cost, the effort is Nowhere near the enjoyment. you can forget attracting new players, or even keeping newish players, there is NO incentive to the gate; that the cost of enchants has created!!!! I personally regret every dime i have spent, really wish i had my money back.
> That Magic The Gathering RPG they are working on
No matter how much I love Magic, if this is the way this company treats their customers, I will not download nor spend one cent into any game created by any party involved. Good companies with good customer service get me to try their other products. I'm not a Star Trek fan, yet I have STO downloaded on my ps4, and have played a little. Bad companies with bad customer service have me boycott them, I won't own any more games from Trion, even if they come out with the best game ever made.
I'm so vindictive when it comes to my money that if I see the issue is bad enough, I will also boycott any company that has its name attached to a project, which sucks because I invest a lot into WotC products (played magic since the late 90's, D&D since it was owned by TSR, and Betrayal at House on the Hill is my favorite board game of all time. And I was excited about the upcoming Baldur's Gate version of that game).
The reason I keep bringing up the company Trion is because they had a great MMO that I spent a lot of time and money on. It was flourishing. It also wasn't a free to play game. You had to buy it, then you had micro transactions for things like cosmetics and keys for boxes to unlock weapons. One day they completely restructed weapons, nerfed the bonuses, and made the pre nerf ones pretty much obsolete. All the people who had spent time and money obtaining them now basically couldn't keep up with the new weapons that were out. And they couldn't trade them off cuz no one wanted it. Blatant cash grab. It backfired, the game lost a huge chunk of its population. The game went from being a $60 disc to a free to play download. Even then it couldn't get the player base back due to all the publicity of former players.
I don't want Arc to follow history, I really don't.
I don't buy that power-creep is the reason for this. They give us more power every half-mod. They add insignias, stronger weapons, stronger armors, etc. Chult was the one case where the armor wasn't much better than vivified, but all the lower armors were made obsolete by Pilgrims, which is better than Relic gear (unvivified.)
I don't believe it either and that's why if you check all my previous posts my goal was not juts to say it but to show it. Sadly I think we are to get "hit" by something like bonding nerf, only to be back at square one for some players in 3 months time, while the lower and mid levels even some of the upper ones will get hit hard.
I really would like to see some statement from @nitocris83 about this situation. Tons of people want to leave the game. We are being robbed. You take our achievements and force us to work our hamsters off to get back to the very same level of power we are now.
It's not about my paingiver numbers, it's about the rules. Stealing is always bad and that's exactly what are you doing now.
I got my friend in to this game. He grinded very hard to get his bondings to be competetive for high end runs. He got them like month before and now he has to grind it all over again?
You guys said before, that bonding runestones work as intended. What's the plan now? What do we get in trade for these changes? Why are you supporting elitism in this game? Why are you killing alts? What now, when poeple will focus on just one toon? We won't have enough supporting classes.
bluebubbl3sMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 121Arc User
so if power creep is the issue, why arent they nerfing the buffs/debuffs of the clerics, guardian fighters, renegade wizards, pallys and warlocks.... oh, cause that would take actual mathematics and proper programming and of course, time. to nerf the bondings, well thats heaps easier and who cares about the painstaking hours players have spent testing and trying to get stats just right and swapping out insignias and enchantments and gear pieces. just putting it back on the players to work it all out is pretty much HAMSTER imo.
Ya, who is to say that after most of us get back to BIS that they won't find bonding and enchantments in need of another nerf? This fear will prevent spending by anybody other than those with money to burn. No player should have this fear, the bonding nerf should be completely reversed and powersharing and other overpowered buffs slashed instead. Aura of Courage is another broken mechanic that is abused and should be dealt with.
Powershare was originally designed to buff players & companions. Changing how that works would take far more considerable time... and does not encourage the desired effect and really would just be a NERF to support. DPS classes already do a massive amount of DPS in the game, and Bonding stones are 9x or more powerful than any other Rune, but clearly they don't need a correction?
Heck even after the changes to other Runes the R14 Bonding Stone will be more than 5x better than the increased R14 Eldritch or others. This is the best way to limit powershare directly caused by bondings while also correcting the significant lead they held over other Runes. While I was surprised they were planning to limit uptime to 50%, the fact they reversed it will protect maintain powersharing - even if at a lower rate.
If they limited Powershare to only benefit players without Nerfing the buff percentages; which would be the only viable option to consider, it would make the correction you have to bonding now look like nothing. It also would not address the core issue of bondings being far too superior to other equivalently ranked stones.
People wouldn't even talk power share if we only had R12 Eldritch in defense Rune slots. Bondings are the cause (7.9x higher Augmentation boost than an Eldritch) and you also get the higher Offense/Defense buff as well. You just can't have one Rune 9x or even more powerful than any other Rune. Everything else had been relegated to JUNK status for far too long.
My Corellite!
In any MMO if one thing is at a massive advantage, it's clear it needs to be corrected; especially if it's the only thing everybody uses. A game without different choices for different classes/feats/companions or builds would not be exciting. Bondings left alone basically equate to a "God Mode Cheat" being permitted in the game.
There is also the issue of nerfing us and then forcing us to run a dungeon, that was designed around bondings as they are now, to get marks to get back to where we are now. That is a catch 22. TonG is hard now, imagine running it a minimum of 87 times in a gimped state. Most players can't even get invites to it...
Exactly. I love helping new players and 1st runners get through TNG - and I usually take everything slowly and explain it, but I can't carry the group - that's when I involve my guildmates. But now, not only will I not be able to carry, I'd basically drag the group down. I'm a pretty good DPS atm - not top tier, but can carry stuff like FBI. Now imagine literally any other class with lower IL - if they're not HR, CW or GWF, they'd just not be able to do jack due to how underpowered other classes are (especially poor TRs, they deserve a buff of epic proportions). And with Orcus being such a massive tank, you NEED at least one ridiculous single target DPS - not a single 15k HR or GWF could carry that alone. With the bonding nerf... well, you get the point.
so if power creep is the issue, why arent they nerfing the buffs/debuffs of the clerics, guardian fighters, renegade wizards, pallys and warlocks.... oh, cause that would take actual mathematics and proper programming and of course, time. to nerf the bondings, well thats heaps easier and who cares about the painstaking hours players have spent testing and trying to get stats just right and swapping out insignias and enchantments and gear pieces. just putting it back on the players to work it all out is pretty much HAMSTER imo.
nerfing the buffs/debuffs of the clerics...
Do you want me to have a heart attack ? Cos this is how people get heart attacks...
The companions rebuff is a pretty well known issue for years now and one mayor reason why content at BIS level is trivial and also why supporter classes reign NWO. Sry, but a buff getting enhanced for 285% by a companion ?
I wouldn't say support classes reign in NWO - there are just as many DPS classes as well. The fact is it's hard to say because many players have like 3-4 DPS classes and possibly just as many support; but the roles can very depending on feat choices.
Yet I think you hit the issue on TOP of the head. 285% is insanity. A current R12 Eldritch gives 12%, while bonding 95% (7.9x better buff) and it does so while also giving a higher +840 to defense or offense as well. You can't have one Rune offering 9x or more the benefit of every other one out there while others are mostly considered Garbage.
Powershare wouldn't even be a topic if we only had R12 Eldritch. The exploit is solely caused and created by bondings high augment boost.
I know it's considered crazy OP, but returning the Loyal Gear (and not locked behind the hardest content either) would be a nice, conciliatory measure on your part. The Ardent Store needs some love anyway...
We fully understand how big of a topic this is which is why we wanted to get the details out early to get feedback on all of the changes. And feedback certainly has been given! Although these types of topics can get heated due to the passion players have for this game, it is a good thing to see such involvement and discussion from our player base.
There are valid points being brought up through out this discussion. Reading over all of this feedback, from multiple sources, has allowed us to take a look at different perspectives on the bonding issues. Bonding runestones do need an adjustment and we'd like to allow for other companion and runestone choices to not be so underwhelming compared to a bonding companion.
Many of the points brought forward by you is that a 50% up time changes too many dynamics which will drive many players to feeling that an augment pet is the only correct route to play. That is not our intention and not where we want the game to go.
We are going to switch the up time to being able to be 100% (cooldown and up time will match). This will be with the lowered percentages that we presented and seems like the best way to address many of the concerns while still bringing bonding power more in line with where it should be.
Also, we are going to look into switching the offensive effect of Eldritch Runestones to match the defensive effect, meaning that either slot will grant the stat gain (it does mean the AP functionality of the Eldritch Runestone offensive slot is going away). This allows players who would like to use an augment pet with Eldritch Runestones to have a choice in which augment pet to use.
The concerns on dungeon runs/difficulty in the game with any changes to bonding runestones is not unnoticed and something we have been paying attention to internally throughout all of this. We have been doing internal testing on this and look forward to feedback during preview on this very topic.
If that is the case then i'm ok with changes ... I'll start to make my calculation of new share %age at 100% up time then it come on preview to see what i need to change on live for getting back to DR cap ... and other usefull stats ...
And i've seen in another post (sorry if i don't quote you i can't read and remember everything ...) someone proposed to add the companion gift to other rune it could be a solution but at a less higher rate.
On preview last time i checked bonding r12 gave 750 stats + 55% stats sharing, other enchant could give 700 stats and 15% stats sharing, still not the best but would help for balancing maybe ?
Why not giving the companion gift a permanent proc for companion that attack not then they attack but only then present (all except augment and Energon (at least he never proced them for me before)), and for the power creep that is told also along the lines, why not make the stats share (probably the same with the legendary bonus) only take into account the base stats and the item of the companion not the buff on them (except buff from companion influence) ? it'll won't change the current power buffs spells of the game but still limiting the insane amount that you can have ...
Then after this change if the high end is too hard you could start to up the power buff to balance this type of content (or nerf the content ... your choice)
There is multiple solution to the problem, more people to talk about it, more possibilities will arise and make even more idea come forth, making hopefully better decision for everyone to enjoy !
Good day and good luck to find the right thing to do !
If there's one lesson the devs should've learned from mod 10, it's that "if it's too tedious & unrewarding, most players won't bother".
Instead of picking up on this lession, they've rolled it out across the entire game:
Immediate reduction of stats (bondings) - sense of loss Typically, a 3-6 month grind to get back to the same level - sense of tedium Reduced AD earnings so buying/upgrading takes longer - sense of slower progression
Regardless of what I will call "good intentions", the impact on players state of mind toward these changes will be as listed above. The most likely result of players feeling this way will be "I can't be bothered.".
And let's be clear about the random queue system - the vast majority of players will swallow the loss of AD, not run Randoms and focus running content with friends/guildies. As such there will be less help for lower geared players as the better equipped will be more focused on speed in an attempt to make up for the AD loss.
Either Cryptic have no awareness of player mindset, or they believe the loss of players will be offset somehow.
Please Do Not Feed The Trolls
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
so if power creep is the issue, why arent they nerfing the buffs/debuffs of the clerics, guardian fighters, renegade wizards, pallys and warlocks.... oh, cause that would take actual mathematics and proper programming and of course, time. to nerf the bondings, well thats heaps easier and who cares about the painstaking hours players have spent testing and trying to get stats just right and swapping out insignias and enchantments and gear pieces. just putting it back on the players to work it all out is pretty much HAMSTER imo.
The reason is CLEAR. Because the cause is NOT powershare, if we only had R12 Eldrtich the whole discussion would not exist...
If they did even attempt reducing support buff's in be the first nail in the coffer to support classes; so the only alternative would be to limit powershare to players only! Yet if that was done it would make the existing NERF to bonding far worse than it is now; yet would fail to correct the 9x advantage Bonding has over other equally ranked Runes.
The revised Bonding Changes address the cause not the symptom; while still leaving Bonding in a BiS role with 5x benefit. Most will likely maintain 3x Bonding stones in their companion, yet some might now want to pair 2 Bonding with an Empowered or other Rune. Now at least their are some viable options including for Augments.
Many may disagree with me. But my analysis I think is very FAIR & looks at a variety of options or alternatives having worked in technology for 20+ years. I compliment them on finding a solution which addressed the cause of the issue while restoring balance between Bonding and all other Runes in a very fair and appropriate way.
I think those who continue to attack Cyptic's decision are taking it 5 steps too far! It's going beyond debate to just encouraging or promoting TOXIC atmosphere. I'm not saying they will RETHINK the 50% uptime, but your certainly not winning sympathy to your cause. >:)
Honestly as another person stated earlier... ...285% of a companions Rune, Gear & Enchantments that also attacks with 3 or 4 powers, while also getting a dual higher buff of +2520 to offense or defense. That's 11x more powerful than every other Rune and the reason power share is a problem at the very core.
> @strathkin said: > Ya, who is to say that after most of us get back to BIS that they won't find bonding and enchantments in need of another nerf? This fear will prevent spending by anybody other than those with money to burn. No player should have this fear, the bonding nerf should be completely reversed and powersharing and other overpowered buffs slashed instead. Aura of Courage is another broken mechanic that is abused and should be dealt with. > > Powershare was originally designed to buff players & companions. Changing how that works would take far more considerable time... and does not encourage the desired effect and really would just be a NERF to support. DPS classes already do a massive amount of DPS in the game, and Bonding stones are 9x or more powerful than any other Rune, but clearly they don't need a correction? > > Heck even after the changes to other Runes the R14 Bonding Stone will be more than 5x better than the increased R14 Eldritch or others. This is the best way to limit powershare directly caused by bondings while also correcting the significant lead they held over other Runes. While I was surprised they were planning to limit uptime to 50%, the fact they reversed it will protect maintain powersharing - even if at a lower rate. > > If they limited Powershare to only benefit players without Nerfing the buff percentages; which would be the only viable option to consider, it would make the correction you have to bonding now look like nothing. It also would not address the core issue of bondings being far too superior to other equivalently ranked stones. > > People wouldn't even talk power share if we only had R12 Eldritch in defense Rune slots. Bondings are the cause (7.9x higher Augmentation boost than an Eldritch) and you also get the higher Offense/Defense buff as well. You just can't have one Rune 9x or even more powerful than any other Rune. Everything else had been relegated to JUNK status for far too long. > > My Corellite! > > In any MMO if one thing is at a massive advantage, it's clear it needs to be corrected; especially if it's the only thing everybody uses. A game without different choices for different classes/feats/companions or builds would not be exciting. Bondings left alone basically equate to a "God Mode Cheat" being permitted in the game.
wrong, dps do massive damage because of the power share put it this way I'm a bis gwf and with bondings proced and all self buffs my ibs hits for roughly 1.5 mill but when I'm in a power share group in fbi 2×dc and a pally my ibs hits for 35 to 40 mill so ask yourself is it bondings or is it buffs double dipping through your companion?
nerfing bondings will not stop this but stopping companions receiving any buffs from any outside source will fix this, this isn't nerfing any class as the players character will still receive the full buffs from any out side source
DEVELOPERS PLZZZ READ THIS!!! I LOVE NWO! I have put much work in it and it was great fun and enjoyment doing solo stuff or running with friends. Really good game and worth to invest in... That's the reason i want it to be great and continue to grow and i think bonding nerf is very bad move on the part of the company and il try explain why: 1) As devs said reason for nerfing bonds is to FIx their impact on the game's balance... wrong this will change nothing cause once players will get those rank 14 enchants and unparalleled WE the BIS Player will be in slightly better position and so this will achieve nothing... 2) The real problem of the game is "Power Share" that multiplies from companions and gives huge boost to player. If they would fix multiplying effect it will balance the game, bondings would need no interfering and content would be much enjoyble on all lvls and dungens. 3) All the hard content FBI/MSP/MSVA/TONG requires you to have rank 12 bondings and pretty decent build/gear as well as skills To finish in one piece) nerfing bondings will make this content for not perfect groups (aka not every group consists of OP,GF, AC DC, DO DC °And random dps you name it) or low gs people almost unplayable... you won't be able to finish it in under 1 hour even mb and so won't be willing to carry any1 to just get peridot at the end of exhausting 1h+dungeon... (yes reward system is a complete other topic so il stop at that here))). The point is that content was meant to have bondings so it will be much harder to get by for low GS people and whoever was BIS pre nerf and had that 350k+ power on em will still breezee verything regardless so no issue will be fixed. 4) People have grinded their as...es to balance their stats with bondings and enchants and now company decides to just halve what was your hard earned results! There are many reasons people enjoy playing MMOs and i think one of the most important part is to have that deep progression system that you invest your time and effort and get benefited by watching your char getting stronger and achieving this milestones... this move is complete opposite cause progression you made is tempered and you are given option to spend even more time just to get where you were... you don't mess up with peoples hard earned items like that when it was your game design that forced every1 to get them. 5) NWO is great free to play game where you can have decent endgame char if you can understand how the game works and requires from you to do. That said we all understand that for company to deliver this excellent product and create new content needs funding. They don't have to anger so many people by this wrong move to force us just to get where we were lre nerf... every1 eventually would upgrade to rank 14s without this drastic major changes cause they would open so many new char customization options! Solution: Fix the interaction of Power share with companions to repair that broken overpowered party composition. Not only will this allow to balance and make game more fun but also running with 3 dps 1 tank and dc would be valid again so there will be way more variety in gameplay and easyier to make groups. With either changes the dungen lvl difficulty ofc should be changed accordingly. Power share nerf will further push players to strive for rank 14 enchants and unparalled WE to enhance individual character strength. This move is win win for both parties! On one hand players will have new content and strive for new items at the same time their chars would be as strong as they were pre changes but with more opportunities to grow (sounds wonderful to me) on the other hand company will maintain happy player base and earn profit by implementing this changes. Sorry for long post but i care too much for this game to watch it sink like it did in mod 6... don't want anymore exodus... the more people there will be the more money company will generate, as for us we will get continues development of the game. We really can win out of this... all of us...
Comments
You are right, those of us that paid money on this stuff were foolish. Solution, don't pay them anymore money. Problem solved. Good business plan Crytpic/Perfect World.
I will probably still play this game, until it proves to be unplayable, but now I will be what you hate most in the world. A free player.
defence, deflection, regen, lifesteal on defence slots
and some special runes with + %income healing, +%cc, +%cc resist, +%stamina gain, +%gold gain, +%ca damage bonus, +%aoe resistance, +%comapnion influence, +%movement
the training runes are obsolete in the game we no longer need them
On the other hand, the new content is so unrewarding, that I stopped spending much time in game anyway. But dont worry about long time players leaving the game. There is not one beta player from my friend list, who plays regulary anymore. Even of the guys who played for a few years, most have stopped.
As it is a few players have BIS gear. they claim, that they want to level the playing field. Yeah right. How wmany players will be able to upgrade to R14. How many players will bother to do it. The gear gap will get worse.
Do you really think, that I (or anyone else) will abandon my main and upgrade my DC and my GF from R12s to R14s, so the shortage of GFs and DCs will not get worse, think again.
Every high-level character is now going to be doing 52 card pickup, in most cases for months. I see a drove of rage-quitting on the way.
Why a lot of skills and builds still don't work anywhere close to what is written? Why pvp hasn't been actually reworked for years? All console players have, by now, reached the cap, where pc players roughly came in 3-4 years. Why is that you think? So we could spend more, and then, this patch, looks absolutely legit from the business side perspective.
But where all the money goes? All these changes could have been made just as a simple 2 week update, but they've been working for months, or so they say.
my Bondings are only r10s, as the cost of r12's is friggen stupid for casual play!!!
The biggest issue in my opinion, the issue that is not being addressed is the COST of all these enchantments, we are talking millions of AD,,,,many millions. WAY more that a casual players wants to even contemplate spending, time, money or resources on.
the time to earn enough AD to upgrade ALL of our enchants is stupid and immensely time consuming, and expensive as all hell, even augmenting with real cash. now add in trying different builds, or different companions different enchants, the costs just keep pilling up, and up, and up and UP!!!!
forget about trying to build a ALT, cant afford it!!!
if new players ask if the game is worth playing, at this point i say NO, the grind, the cost, the effort is Nowhere near the enjoyment.
you can forget attracting new players, or even keeping newish players, there is NO incentive to the gate; that the cost of enchants has created!!!!
I personally regret every dime i have spent, really wish i had my money back.
> That Magic The Gathering RPG they are working on
No matter how much I love Magic, if this is the way this company treats their customers, I will not download nor spend one cent into any game created by any party involved. Good companies with good customer service get me to try their other products. I'm not a Star Trek fan, yet I have STO downloaded on my ps4, and have played a little. Bad companies with bad customer service have me boycott them, I won't own any more games from Trion, even if they come out with the best game ever made.
I'm so vindictive when it comes to my money that if I see the issue is bad enough, I will also boycott any company that has its name attached to a project, which sucks because I invest a lot into WotC products (played magic since the late 90's, D&D since it was owned by TSR, and Betrayal at House on the Hill is my favorite board game of all time. And I was excited about the upcoming Baldur's Gate version of that game).
I don't want Arc to follow history, I really don't.
Just shut this game down already really. This is like Marvel avengers alliance all over again.
Fleecing players right until the very end before dropping the closure news.
It's not about my paingiver numbers, it's about the rules. Stealing is always bad and that's exactly what are you doing now.
I got my friend in to this game. He grinded very hard to get his bondings to be competetive for high end runs. He got them like month before and now he has to grind it all over again?
You guys said before, that bonding runestones work as intended. What's the plan now? What do we get in trade for these changes? Why are you supporting elitism in this game? Why are you killing alts? What now, when poeple will focus on just one toon? We won't have enough supporting classes.
Please anwer these questions.
Guild Leader - Valaurakari Ascension
VA is the creator and proud member of The Round Table Alliance
Heck even after the changes to other Runes the R14 Bonding Stone will be more than 5x better than the increased R14 Eldritch or others. This is the best way to limit powershare directly caused by bondings while also correcting the significant lead they held over other Runes. While I was surprised they were planning to limit uptime to 50%, the fact they reversed it will protect maintain powersharing - even if at a lower rate.
If they limited Powershare to only benefit players without Nerfing the buff percentages; which would be the only viable option to consider, it would make the correction you have to bonding now look like nothing. It also would not address the core issue of bondings being far too superior to other equivalently ranked stones.
People wouldn't even talk power share if we only had R12 Eldritch in defense Rune slots. Bondings are the cause (7.9x higher Augmentation boost than an Eldritch) and you also get the higher Offense/Defense buff as well. You just can't have one Rune 9x or even more powerful than any other Rune. Everything else had been relegated to JUNK status for far too long.
My Corellite!
In any MMO if one thing is at a massive advantage, it's clear it needs to be corrected; especially if it's the only thing everybody uses. A game without different choices for different classes/feats/companions or builds would not be exciting. Bondings left alone basically equate to a "God Mode Cheat" being permitted in the game.
Exactly. I love helping new players and 1st runners get through TNG - and I usually take everything slowly and explain it, but I can't carry the group - that's when I involve my guildmates. But now, not only will I not be able to carry, I'd basically drag the group down. I'm a pretty good DPS atm - not top tier, but can carry stuff like FBI. Now imagine literally any other class with lower IL - if they're not HR, CW or GWF, they'd just not be able to do jack due to how underpowered other classes are (especially poor TRs, they deserve a buff of epic proportions). And with Orcus being such a massive tank, you NEED at least one ridiculous single target DPS - not a single 15k HR or GWF could carry that alone. With the bonding nerf... well, you get the point.
Do you want me to have a heart attack ? Cos this is how people get heart attacks...
you ll be hearing from my lawyer... =.=
( JK )
Yet I think you hit the issue on TOP of the head. 285% is insanity. A current R12 Eldritch gives 12%, while bonding 95% (7.9x better buff) and it does so while also giving a higher +840 to defense or offense as well. You can't have one Rune offering 9x or more the benefit of every other one out there while others are mostly considered Garbage.
Powershare wouldn't even be a topic if we only had R12 Eldritch. The exploit is solely caused and created by bondings high augment boost.
And i've seen in another post (sorry if i don't quote you i can't read and remember everything ...) someone proposed to add the companion gift to other rune it could be a solution but at a less higher rate.
On preview last time i checked bonding r12 gave 750 stats + 55% stats sharing, other enchant could give 700 stats and 15% stats sharing, still not the best but would help for balancing maybe ?
Why not giving the companion gift a permanent proc for companion that attack not then they attack but only then present (all except augment and Energon (at least he never proced them for me before)), and for the power creep that is told also along the lines, why not make the stats share (probably the same with the legendary bonus) only take into account the base stats and the item of the companion not the buff on them (except buff from companion influence) ? it'll won't change the current power buffs spells of the game but still limiting the insane amount that you can have ...
Then after this change if the high end is too hard you could start to up the power buff to balance this type of content (or nerf the content ... your choice)
There is multiple solution to the problem, more people to talk about it, more possibilities will arise and make even more idea come forth, making hopefully better decision for everyone to enjoy !
Good day and good luck to find the right thing to do !
Instead of picking up on this lession, they've rolled it out across the entire game:
Immediate reduction of stats (bondings) - sense of loss
Typically, a 3-6 month grind to get back to the same level - sense of tedium
Reduced AD earnings so buying/upgrading takes longer - sense of slower progression
Regardless of what I will call "good intentions", the impact on players state of mind toward these changes will be as listed above. The most likely result of players feeling this way will be "I can't be bothered.".
And let's be clear about the random queue system - the vast majority of players will swallow the loss of AD, not run Randoms and focus running content with friends/guildies. As such there will be less help for lower geared players as the better equipped will be more focused on speed in an attempt to make up for the AD loss.
Either Cryptic have no awareness of player mindset, or they believe the loss of players will be offset somehow.
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
If they did even attempt reducing support buff's in be the first nail in the coffer to support classes; so the only alternative would be to limit powershare to players only! Yet if that was done it would make the existing NERF to bonding far worse than it is now; yet would fail to correct the 9x advantage Bonding has over other equally ranked Runes.
The revised Bonding Changes address the cause not the symptom; while still leaving Bonding in a BiS role with 5x benefit. Most will likely maintain 3x Bonding stones in their companion, yet some might now want to pair 2 Bonding with an Empowered or other Rune. Now at least their are some viable options including for Augments.
Many may disagree with me. But my analysis I think is very FAIR & looks at a variety of options or alternatives having worked in technology for 20+ years. I compliment them on finding a solution which addressed the cause of the issue while restoring balance between Bonding and all other Runes in a very fair and appropriate way.
I think those who continue to attack Cyptic's decision are taking it 5 steps too far! It's going beyond debate to just encouraging or promoting TOXIC atmosphere. I'm not saying they will RETHINK the 50% uptime, but your certainly not winning sympathy to your cause. >:)
Honestly as another person stated earlier... ...285% of a companions Rune, Gear & Enchantments that also attacks with 3 or 4 powers, while also getting a dual higher buff of +2520 to offense or defense. That's 11x more powerful than every other Rune and the reason power share is a problem at the very core.
> Ya, who is to say that after most of us get back to BIS that they won't find bonding and enchantments in need of another nerf? This fear will prevent spending by anybody other than those with money to burn. No player should have this fear, the bonding nerf should be completely reversed and powersharing and other overpowered buffs slashed instead. Aura of Courage is another broken mechanic that is abused and should be dealt with.
>
> Powershare was originally designed to buff players & companions. Changing how that works would take far more considerable time... and does not encourage the desired effect and really would just be a NERF to support. DPS classes already do a massive amount of DPS in the game, and Bonding stones are 9x or more powerful than any other Rune, but clearly they don't need a correction?
>
> Heck even after the changes to other Runes the R14 Bonding Stone will be more than 5x better than the increased R14 Eldritch or others. This is the best way to limit powershare directly caused by bondings while also correcting the significant lead they held over other Runes. While I was surprised they were planning to limit uptime to 50%, the fact they reversed it will protect maintain powersharing - even if at a lower rate.
>
> If they limited Powershare to only benefit players without Nerfing the buff percentages; which would be the only viable option to consider, it would make the correction you have to bonding now look like nothing. It also would not address the core issue of bondings being far too superior to other equivalently ranked stones.
>
> People wouldn't even talk power share if we only had R12 Eldritch in defense Rune slots. Bondings are the cause (7.9x higher Augmentation boost than an Eldritch) and you also get the higher Offense/Defense buff as well. You just can't have one Rune 9x or even more powerful than any other Rune. Everything else had been relegated to JUNK status for far too long.
>
> My Corellite!
>
> In any MMO if one thing is at a massive advantage, it's clear it needs to be corrected; especially if it's the only thing everybody uses. A game without different choices for different classes/feats/companions or builds would not be exciting. Bondings left alone basically equate to a "God Mode Cheat" being permitted in the game.
wrong, dps do massive damage because of the power share put it this way I'm a bis gwf and with bondings proced and all self buffs my ibs hits for roughly 1.5 mill but when I'm in a power share group in fbi 2×dc and a pally my ibs hits for 35 to 40 mill so ask yourself is it bondings or is it buffs double dipping through your companion?
nerfing bondings will not stop this but stopping companions receiving any buffs from any outside source will fix this, this isn't nerfing any class as the players character will still receive the full buffs from any out side source
I have put much work in it and it was great fun and enjoyment doing solo stuff or running with friends. Really good game and worth to invest in...
That's the reason i want it to be great and continue to grow and i think bonding nerf is very bad move on the part of the company and il try explain why:
1) As devs said reason for nerfing bonds is to FIx their impact on the game's balance... wrong this will change nothing cause once players will get those rank 14 enchants and unparalleled WE the BIS Player will be in slightly better position and so this will achieve nothing...
2) The real problem of the game is "Power Share" that multiplies from companions and gives huge boost to player. If they would fix multiplying effect it will balance the game, bondings would need no interfering and content would be much enjoyble on all lvls and dungens.
3) All the hard content FBI/MSP/MSVA/TONG requires you to have rank 12 bondings and pretty decent build/gear as well as skills To finish in one piece) nerfing bondings will make this content for not perfect groups (aka not every group consists of OP,GF, AC DC, DO DC °And random dps you name it) or low gs people almost unplayable... you won't be able to finish it in under 1 hour even mb and so won't be willing to carry any1 to just get peridot at the end of exhausting 1h+dungeon... (yes reward system is a complete other topic so il stop at that here))). The point is that content was meant to have bondings so it will be much harder to get by for low GS people and whoever was BIS pre nerf and had that 350k+ power on em will still breezee verything regardless so no issue will be fixed.
4) People have grinded their as...es to balance their stats with bondings and enchants and now company decides to just halve what was your hard earned results! There are many reasons people enjoy playing MMOs and i think one of the most important part is to have that deep progression system that you invest your time and effort and get benefited by watching your char getting stronger and achieving this milestones... this move is complete opposite cause progression you made is tempered and you are given option to spend even more time just to get where you were... you don't mess up with peoples hard earned items like that when it was your game design that forced every1 to get them.
5) NWO is great free to play game where you can have decent endgame char if you can understand how the game works and requires from you to do. That said we all understand that for company to deliver this excellent product and create new content needs funding. They don't have to anger so many people by this wrong move to force us just to get where we were lre nerf... every1 eventually would upgrade to rank 14s without this drastic major changes cause they would open so many new char customization options!
Solution: Fix the interaction of Power share with companions to repair that broken overpowered party composition. Not only will this allow to balance and make game more fun but also running with 3 dps 1 tank and dc would be valid again so there will be way more variety in gameplay and easyier to make groups. With either changes the dungen lvl difficulty ofc should be changed accordingly. Power share nerf will further push players to strive for rank 14 enchants and unparalled WE to enhance individual character strength. This move is win win for both parties! On one hand players will have new content and strive for new items at the same time their chars would be as strong as they were pre changes but with more opportunities to grow (sounds wonderful to me) on the other hand company will maintain happy player base and earn profit by implementing this changes.
Sorry for long post but i care too much for this game to watch it sink like it did in mod 6... don't want anymore exodus... the more people there will be the more money company will generate, as for us we will get continues development of the game. We really can win out of this... all of us...