Official Feedback Thread: Refining Refinement

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  • treesclimber
    treesclimber Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,161 Arc User
    But i like the refinement system as it is, i do agree that beginners may feel cheated because of same quality refinement (power artifact into power artifact) and the fact that they miss double RP but when it comes to marks and thaumalurge stones i like the variety existing, the only problem i see is lots of stuff btc without reason, but the fact that i need a greater mark of power to an artifact of power is fun, not troubling.

  • ragequittingdc#8599
    ragequittingdc#8599 Member Posts: 229 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    man this is terrible, absolutely terrible. I have never once seen anybody in-game or on the forums complain that the current RP system is flawed or that it was too complicated. of course I'm just one person but in any case, any complexity that existed is being burnt to the ground in favor of appealing to new players that would probably quit the game before they reach level 50 anyway. like many other posters here have previously said, hoarding enchants and the like was actually pretty fun. there was a treasure hunter role playing feel to it. as far as inventory space goes, I have yet to buy even one runic bag and have no issues with spacing.



    speaking of bondings, well this is just a slap in the face. 50% uptime as opposed to 100% for what reasons? where are bondings over performing? 16k premades that farm hati for mats? the same 16k premades joined together farming msva for guildy alts? also in compliance to those BIS players wishes, they needed something else to grind for and so we have 2 new ranks. im dreading my return to farming tier 2 content for salvage because my 3x12 bonding is no longer cutting it for paingiver idoling elitist speedrunners in fbi and msva/nsva. I have no issue with rank 12 eventually being replaced with higher ranks in time, but the time now just doesn't match up. there is no content that would even require 2 higher ranks. unlike some others, I didn't drop a dime for my bondings, I spent my time farming for them, yet I feel the same resentment right now.
    im actually the gwf carry
  • w00trandomsnoobi
    w00trandomsnoobi Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 387 Arc User
    Well, from a casual non-BIS player point of view the refinement changes look great. My (non-runic) bags will thank you. :)

    Couple of questions:
    • Will the new Enchantment Stones drop from Dread Ring lairs instead of marks? (Also maybe rethink the name "Enchantment Stone", it's a bit confusing. Everyone's used to calling them marks, so what's wrong with that?)
    • Can one still buy rank 5 enchantments from Adventurer Seal Trader?
    • If there's not gonna be matching bonus from artifacts anymore, can the class artifacts (and others that can't be used to refine other artifacts) be made usable in refining other artifacts or convertable to refining points?
  • dragonlancer#8992
    dragonlancer#8992 Member Posts: 17 Arc User
    @noworries#8859
    What will happen to Quartermaster Enchantsments? What will they drop?
  • agilesto
    agilesto Member Posts: 516 Arc User
    I like this new concept of RP. The fact no one upgraded anything when not in double RP was clearly a design problem.
    I'll finally be able to get rid of all the stacks of enchants, RP stuff in 3 differents bind types and it'll free lots of space in my account overall. Having a huge stock of RP instead of hundreds of stacks, i love it!

    I don't really know yet how it will impact feeders, matching values, and will see it on preview eventually, but that's less a concern for me since RP drops in so many ways now it's not the bottleneck anymore.


    I'm more concerned about the upgrade to R14 and the huge cost involved. You'll now need a coa not only for weapon/armor enchants, but now also for regular enchants and runestones. And the coals wards comes only from Zen Market. Don't tell me about the prayers, i pray all days on 6 toons and i didn't got any coalescent in the past 9 months. 9 months. 9. And i'll need dozens of more to upgrade to R14. I don't talk about coas that drop from enchantment packs now, as the droprate seems to be the same as brilliant diamond, aka you won't see one.

    So many wards needed, so many new mark, Ultimate marks (what's their cost?), on EVERY enchants is not very alt-friendly when the game just began to be more alt-friendly (campaign tokens, special dungeon drop and Chult gear for alts, bound to account stuff...). This is another step back.


    So overall, i like the new concept of refinement, i wanted this for a long time, i'll finally be able to stock the fashion instead of the RP (since we still don't have a fashion tab...). I'm not sure about the R14. I guess it's a new goal to achieve, but i'd really want to see the cost of wards being reduced, because you need so much of them, it's just not possible. I'd ask to reverse the coalgate, but I guess won't happen...

    About the bondings changes, I said what I think about it in the appropriate thread. I gave a "Like" overall to the dev post because it's mostly talking about RP, however I disapprove the bondings change.
  • groo111
    groo111 Member Posts: 37 Arc User
    Ok i know yall needed to do something to adjust bondings to a equivilant level with other types of companions,which is fine.But the cooldown on bondings now will render them useless.in extended fights ie:end game fights last mor than 15 seconds after that u lose all stats armpen power defenses tanks will lose aggro dps lose armpen to deal damage and ppl become squishy.How in any way are u gonna kill the souls in tomb at last boss if ur bondings are on cooldown u need to burst them fast or ur gonna get destroyed. Imo the nerf to the 95% from bondings to 65% is fine its the cooldown that is an issue.Take away icd and its still a good option as are the augments
  • dracula#9357
    dracula#9357 Member Posts: 26 Arc User
    when is this change taking place pls is it next mod or after maintanance
  • seridkalsenov
    seridkalsenov Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 30 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    now i can't say i agree or not but it's kinda hard to face after spent many years trying to upgrade bonding. I actually don't get super shocked on RP changes but the bonding it is. it will affect the performance of most DPSer in T3 dungeons and T3 raids meaning those T3 dungeon and some super hard hitting T2 bos like Egwd need to be readjust the dmg and bos durabiliy so a tank won't get 1 shotted really fast and it won't took 2hrs+ to finish .i will simply said devs will spent more time than just nerfing the bonding, i take the To9G dungeon as example. i did a run and it took around 1-2 hrs to finish that is with 2 support class 2 bis dps and 1 bis tank and all of them use bonding. but what happen if all of them only use augments and R12 eldritch bonus buff + leg companion only ???. no offense, but it will took more than 2 hrs to finish just only removing bonding. that is why some dungeon need to be reworked too if the bonding nerf is live it is equal to spent more time spent more money for the working dev teams and there is a possibility some players will rage quit so easily + elitism will increase. my final word i cant say i agree with RP change but i REALLY REALLY don't agree with bonding nerf.

    http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Video Game Elitist << about elitism if someone don't know what it is.
  • danpio1217#3410
    danpio1217#3410 Member Posts: 58 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    Words are hard amirite?? People complaining refining higher ranks will be harder aren't paying attention. It says RP value will be reduced by a factor of ten AND progression will be halved. Value is the actual numerical worth, while progression refers to the relative difficulty of getting from 1-12...er... 1-14. From what i've read, max refining gear and enchantments will be easier, and you can do it whenever you want. It's a win/win people.

    Save your energy for the bonding discussion, as that's a different story. But i will comment about that in the appropriate thread. But i get why so much of it landed here... words are hard AMIRITE?!?!? LOL
  • casewoodshadow
    casewoodshadow Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 25 Arc User

    Suggestion for bonding before it's too late (if it's not too late):

    Keep the uptime at 100%, just adjust the % of stats given closer to the auguments (slightly higher, why? so people don't switch to auguments only). This way both will be viable and used.

    50% uptime is not good and it makes to too messy to try and compensate. For example, I need to overstack Armor pen on my main character to make up for the fact that the ArP in my pet will only be up 50% of the time. If you "must" make a change to bondings, boost the augmented pets as planned to make them more attractive and slightly nerf the % of stats that bonding gives while maintaining 100% uptime on both augments and non-augments. People have spent millions of AD getting their bondings to rank 12 and their non-augment pets to epic and/or legendary and I don't want to see a big exodus of players in a game that I love, especially after you guys did such a great job on Mod 12. Being able to do dailies anytime during the week is a huge quality of life improvement for people with busy schedules and I've enjoyed the new dungeon a lot.
  • chris#7087
    chris#7087 Member Posts: 10 Arc User
    Who is actually asking for this bonding change? I mean, it seems to me the one thing I hear about over and over is "Get bonding stones to R12 right away. They are one of the single best investments in the game! You'll love them!"

    Not once have I ever seen or heard anyone say that bonding stones suck - they're worthless and you shouldn't use them, because if you do, you will be sorry.

    So I ask again - who; or what demographic is asking for this change? Did you have a focus group come in and determine that bonding stones are just too powerful? I would love to hear the logic behind this. The logic that explains the thought process behind this decision that reaches a conclusion where the players will be rewarded, if not in small measure, but rather punished for being so loyal.

    Are you folks over at Cryptic having a good laugh over this, because the only conclusion I can reach is that you all have lost your minds.

    As I write this, I am reminiscing about the countless hours I have spent getting my character where it is today. While frustrating at times; the hard work, research and time spent, the game achievements involved in getting there, is all for naught.

    I feel like I have been fired from a job that I have been at for years for no apparent reason. It doesn't feel good, it hurts for awhile, and in some cases is embarrassing. So, you start over. You find yourself a new job and begin the process of working your way up again, only to realize that your last job sucked!

    job = Neverwinter



  • mayathesoft
    mayathesoft Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 23 Arc User
    Hi,
    My suggestion pertains not only to this post.
    Could you please coordinate all offical items of change/annoucements in all neverwinter languages (beside US/EN, french, german, italian & russian if no other) so that they would be released at the same moment?
    This thread will be availabe (in FR) only tomorrow, since not all french speaking players understand english or the full meaning of it, it is a source of frustration & false information is already circulating.
    I would be appreciated to inform all neverwinter linguistic communities simultaneously to avoid irritation & misunderstandings.
  • agilesto
    agilesto Member Posts: 516 Arc User

    It looks like the only ones upset by these changes' are the ones exploit?
    Is this a change to fix the exploit, or to make the game more balanced?

    I hope it will bring some balance to the game, so Tired of dps and clerics, running thru dungeons leaving mobs behind them, to kill weaker players. This is not a racing game, it's a teamwork game' (my ignore list is full of these kind of players, if you could make it so when someone is on your ignore list we don't get put in a Que group with them again that would be a great fix)

    If you can do anything to make people slow down, and work as a team that would be wonderful.

    Well you're going to be pleased, at the very end-game content is designed for bondings and they're killing them.
    But i'm kinda afraid that the "issue" of bad behaviour have absolutly nothing to do with bondings and that you are aiming at the wrong target...

  • farlann
    farlann Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    Of course they won't implement the cooldown for bonding, so at the end you will feel it's a victory, but nonetheless it's nerf on bonding we have been investing so much time to get and upgrade without even talking about pets upgraded to legendary. Really well known trick at play here ...
  • rapo973
    rapo973 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 831 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    This is the assessment talking with the guildies of mine
    1. New refinement system ok. That's fine. (The carot)
    2. Unfortunately the system gives us new ranks up to 14. Money/time to invest again. (First stick)
    3. Moreover the bonding runestones will be nerfed heavily forcing many players to rebuild their toons to a great extent (for example find new source to increase the armpen). (Second stick)

    Summing up, 2 sticks and 1 carot.
    Ofc this is just a preliminary assessment, but I hate the idea to start again the upgrading process.

    Oltreverso guild leader
    Maga Othelma - DC | Svalvolo - SW | Dente Avvelenato- GWF
  • ravenskya
    ravenskya Member Posts: 1,891 Arc User
    Sooo... Gems are no longer going to drop in regular game play
    My guild needs gems

    Please enlighten me as to where these gems are going to come from - is that temporary gem dude mandatory now? Do we have to all make gem crates in professions? Did you all think this part through?

    Are you going to remove gems/surplus/AD/gold as a requirement for upgrading guilds? Or did you just lock all of the guilds in place behind the gem wall?
    Founding Member of "Wrong Side of the Stronghold"
    Ravenskya - TR / Krisha Chaos - OP / Waffles - GF / Dex Domitor - HR
    Becky the trendy GWF - GWF / Too Toasty - SW / Falcor - DC / Morrigan - CW / Sir Didymus - OP

  • grimah
    grimah Member Posts: 1,658 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    The 50% bonding uptime will kill summoned companions and everyone will use augments again.

    Why is it not possible to just make augments and bondings equal with a slight bonus on bondings to make it the same as augment with eldritch runestone. Protector's Camaderie alone will make them both appealing.
    Creator of the featured survival horror foundry: "The Silence of Haydenwick" Video Review
    and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
  • tgwolf
    tgwolf Member Posts: 497 Arc User

    So does this mean that gems & surplus will be removed from stronghold upgrade...otherwise i cant see that anyone will donate any gems or surplus to coffer if breakable to refinement points...and if not you most likely scare anyone from even try to develope a guild.....

    Gem crates from Jewelcrafting.

    Enough said.
  • mjonis
    mjonis Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 146 Arc User
    So I think I see a few things here:

    1) I'm fairly certain when the "old" system was implemented people suggested you not make all these BtC, BtA, refining things. Nobody listened and as a partial result we're in the quandry we're in now.
    2) People then were forced to buy lots of bags/bank space (I personally think this is an intentional creation to generate more money) due to the many different kinds of refining things (and that actually created Double RP events which made things worse).
    3) So instead of making/converting all the refining stuff to either unbound or BtA, we have this new thing, which is "nice" but now there's all this empty bag/bank space that some people will feel they wasted a bunch of money on.
    4) What's going to be Cryptic's new moneymaker now that basically bank slots and bags aren't needed?

    People are obviously a bit tweaked with having spent money on said bags/slots and now have a bunch of free space for ....? I'm guessing this is the reason that the RP points aren't account-wide now?

    Not discussing the Bonding runestone as that's a diff. thread. This is a refinement thread.
  • silence1x
    silence1x Member Posts: 1,503 Arc User
    mjonis said:

    4) What's going to be Cryptic's new moneymaker now that basically bank slots and bags aren't needed?

    Coal Wards

    I aim to misbehave
  • tgwolf
    tgwolf Member Posts: 497 Arc User
    armadeonx said:

    I'm ok with the refinement changes. I do honestly believe the bonding changes will have a severely negative impact on players, the community and Cryptic's profits.

    The change is a lot less drastic than people make it out to be, this community lives to overreact and make threats when things are changed. Sure mistakes get made occasionally but that's what future adjustments are for and sans melodramatic people there is no proof as of yet that the changes will be wholly significant.

    When the change first goes live, people with R12 Bondings will take an initial blow, this is true but if this is of concern to them then their first and practically immediate action to take will be to get their Bondings to R14; something made relatively easy to do under the new system.

    Once they achieve R14 they will have a 195% Stat gain uptime of 15 seconds before the 15 second CD hits. Keep in mind, Enchantments themselves will now also go to R14 granting more stats than they did previously.

    What people need to remember is: Battle outside of bosses is not of an extended time and there are gaps between mobs. Most mobs die in ~20 seconds with the average group in dungeons, leaving 10 seconds before Bondings can proc. again. There is generally at least this amount of time between mobs.

    In boss fights, tbh I'm sick of seeing bosses die in 2 minutes because everyone is doing broken levels of damage. A Boss should be just that; a Boss. Give me a good 5-10 minute fight for heaven's sake.

    People need to give changes a chance to occur before threatening to start WWIII over them.
  • rathimar
    rathimar Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5 Arc User
    I might have missed it in the all of the posts here, but will there be a maximum amount of RP a character can have on them at one time? Thanks @noworries#8859 for answering as many of the posts as you have been.