Ha! What are we supposed to do with r14s? Grind those solo campaigns faster? One can only hope they are prepping for the rumored tiered dungeons. If fun group dungeons don't come with them then it will the literal endgame for me because i'm done with these campaign grinds and ridiculously hard to get into dungeons they been givin' us. Oh and when we asked for a "harder" dungeon it didn't mean an insta wipe mechanic or a stupid timer it means that with enough perseverance even an undergeared group can complete the thing. As for the other HAMSTER...meh nerf one thing buff another its how they make their money, i get that, but they've come to a point where people aren't getting their moneys worth.
Bonding: 100% chance to proc for 15 seconds, cooldown of 30 seconds (50% uptime)
So you're really going to bring us back to the dark and boring age when everyone used Augments and everyone was basically a clone of everyone else, with no strategy centering around their diversified pets?
You really want to bring us back to the days when Damnation Scourge Warlocks were regularly kicked out of dungeons because they were the only ones with pets stupid enough to draw agro?
(Nevermind all the posts I made all those years back BEGGING the then devs to stop Companions and Soul Puppets from being capable of initiating agro until their owner's were attacked - or at least giving us the defensive/passive/aggressive option that every other MMO with pets has, for very good reason.)
I suppose some of you haven't been with this game long enough to remember how terrible all that was. I know at least one of you has though - please remind the others.
Between the power share nerf on the DC's, and the Bonding Stone nerfs, everything from FBI on is going to be impossible. No one, not even the 16K DPS gods, will be able to put out enough damage to get past the Dragon Turtle and Avatar of Orcus artificial timers.
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inyawayupdeepMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 206Arc User
Ok do away with chances of success and the wards now and forever or pitchforks and torches, we shouldn't need that garbage to upgrade. If you are trying to make things better do it, but don't make us cough up wards for the new changes, I purchased enough to make a few things top tier. Don't think making us purchase more to upgrade what we already had maxed out will go unnoticed. Wards aren't any fun, no fun at all, wards=no fun, make the chances of success 100%. Your new changes will be seen as nothing but a cash grab if you leave them part of the game.
Dont do this to the bonding runestones, first off these buffs are needed to complete t9g, second how are we supposed to do anything with stat balance if stats are all over the place? as someone who consistently puts decent amounts of money into this game I will be moving on to other games if you do this to bondings. You are going to force me to use the only power I have and vote with my wallet. playing this game with these changes is like trying to use a wheelchair while someone keeps taking the wheels off.
Post edited by p1tchbl4ck1 on
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tripsofthrymrMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,624Community Moderator
So you're really going to bring us back to the dark and boring age when everyone used Augments and everyone was basically a clone of everyone else, with no strategy centering around their diversified pets?
As opposed to what's happening now, everyone (that can afford it) using bonding runestones and one of a handful of best-in-slot summoned pets?
This change is a step toward making companion+eldritch or augment good choices for some builds and making game play less cookie-cutter.
Cryptic does have a long and storied history of causing the pendulum to swing waaaay too far in the other direction when rebalancing things (though I don't have that impression recently). If they strike a good balance between the options, it will benefit the game.
There's never a need to nerf anything - not in a primarily cooperative RPG.
Monsters dying too fast? Give them more HP. Players relying too much on one strategy? Boost some other strategy or introduce a new one.
But, under no circumstances, do you need to nerf a strategy that players have been relying upon for years.
There should really be a "Nevernerf" policy in "Neverwinter", and every other PVE MMO, for that matter. I suppose a few companies have been catching onto this fact - that there's never any need to nerf anything in a world where you can simply boost something else to counter it. Some inexperienced developers, however, are like elementary school Dungeon Masters, playing D&D for the first time: They feel it their role to just try to kill the players and thwart them at every turn, rather than to make sure everyone has a good time, and thus magically remove their +5 Holy Avengers, or whatever other device they are reliant upon, rather than upping the ante and/or introducing a new item.
I suppose, until players, who have spent hundreds of dollars to upgrade their bonding stones and the like, unite against this sort of bullying via class action lawsuits due to their lost investment, this sort of thing will continue to happen in poorly managed games. It'd be a shame if we required SCOTUS to create a national understanding of basic game balance.
It's not like the combination of nerfs and boosts does anything to counter powercreep... This game has the worst case of powercreep I've ever seen, while games with no-nerf policies remain relatively flat in comparison.
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tripsofthrymrMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,624Community Moderator
Dont do this to the bonding runestones, first off these buffs are needed to complete t9g, second how are we supposed to do anything with stat balance if stats are all over the place?
If there's only one way to win end-game content, that's rather boring. They'll have to rebalance content as they rebalance bonding runestones, but allowing other-than-bonding builds to have a place adds richness to the game.
@noworries can we get a better picture of the "chance" for tranquil and serene runestones? I've always wanted to try them out and I have some saved up but it's really hard to gauge whether they're worth it. I have a couple alts who rely very heavily on their companions to deal damage so keeping companions alive is a huge priority.
That said, I'd like to plant an idea in the back of your mind if possible: with PvE enemies doing as much damage as they do, they can often take a companion down in one or two hits. It would be interesting if there was a runestone that granted a companion a chance of a (massive) temporary HP and/or defense boost. Such a runestone should only affect the companion, however, never the player.
The HPs from Empowered were increased quite a bit to try and help with the lifespan of companions. I can look into digging up the chance on Serene and Tranquil tomorrow.
The point of running a summoned combat companion is to take advantage of the extra statistics it gives through Bondings. With the new Bonding's numbers if you sacrifice one of those in favor of an Empowered you've just removed the reason to use a Bonding companion to begin with.
Neverwinter Module 6: The only MMO expansion in the history of MMO's to remove more content than it added.
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kieranmtornMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 382Arc User
pretty much, back to my legendary augment, that is setting in storage.
How does this system affect artifact weapons (main / off) and armor (neck / belt)? What stones will be required to upgrade?
Artifact Equipment has had the progression RP cut in half, the reagents are still the same it is just that Marks of Power/Stability/Union have been changed to all be the same thing which is called Enchanting Stones.
If you reduce the value refinement items by 10 but only reduce the refinement requirement for artifact gear and weapons by 2: that effectively INCREASES the refinement process by 5. Did I miss some other mitigating factor?
How does this system affect artifact weapons (main / off) and armor (neck / belt)? What stones will be required to upgrade?
Artifact Equipment has had the progression RP cut in half, the reagents are still the same it is just that Marks of Power/Stability/Union have been changed to all be the same thing which is called Enchanting Stones.
If you reduce the value refinement items by 10 but only reduce the refinement requirement for artifact gear and weapons by 2: that effectively INCREASES the refinement process by 5. Did I miss some other mitigating factor?
Two parts to this.
First, we reduced the cost and value of RP to 1/10th of the value to help manage the new currency better. This has zero effect on the cost to level anything as both the cost and what you are earning are reduced equally.
Second, we reduced the costs to level Artifacts and Artifact Equipment by half and reduced the cost of Enchantments/Runestones and Enhancements with a new progression system that reduces the overall RP costs of getting up to rank 12.
How does this system affect artifact weapons (main / off) and armor (neck / belt)? What stones will be required to upgrade?
Artifact Equipment has had the progression RP cut in half, the reagents are still the same it is just that Marks of Power/Stability/Union have been changed to all be the same thing which is called Enchanting Stones.
If you reduce the value refinement items by 10 but only reduce the refinement requirement for artifact gear and weapons by 2: that effectively INCREASES the refinement process by 5. Did I miss some other mitigating factor?
Two parts to this.
First, we reduced the cost and value of RP to 1/10th of the value to help manage the new currency better. This has zero effect on the cost to level anything as both the cost and what you are earning are reduced equally.
Second, we reduced the costs to level Artifacts and Artifact Equipment by half and reduced the cost of Enchantments/Runestones and Enhancements with a new progression system that reduces the overall RP costs of getting up to rank 12.
So, for clarity: 1st you're reducing the RP cost of everything by a factor of 10. (i.e. Enchantments, Artifacts, Artifact Gear, etc...)
Then reducing the RP Cost of Artifact Weapons and Gear AGAIN by a actor of 2. (Essentially making it x2 RP all the time for these items.)
How does this system affect artifact weapons (main / off) and armor (neck / belt)? What stones will be required to upgrade?
Artifact Equipment has had the progression RP cut in half, the reagents are still the same it is just that Marks of Power/Stability/Union have been changed to all be the same thing which is called Enchanting Stones.
If you reduce the value refinement items by 10 but only reduce the refinement requirement for artifact gear and weapons by 2: that effectively INCREASES the refinement process by 5. Did I miss some other mitigating factor?
Two parts to this.
First, we reduced the cost and value of RP to 1/10th of the value to help manage the new currency better. This has zero effect on the cost to level anything as both the cost and what you are earning are reduced equally.
Second, we reduced the costs to level Artifacts and Artifact Equipment by half and reduced the cost of Enchantments/Runestones and Enhancements with a new progression system that reduces the overall RP costs of getting up to rank 12.
So, for clarity: 1st you're reducing the RP cost of everything by a factor of 10. (i.e. Enchantments, Artifacts, Artifact Gear, etc...)
Then reducing the RP Cost of Artifact Weapons and Gear AGAIN by a actor of 2. (Essentially making it x2 RP all the time for these items.)
Can/how will existing artifacts be converted into rp? And will the RP value bonus for refining one artifact of the same type with another be preserved in some way?
I'm intrigued by most of the refining changes and I have no problem with toning down bondings, however I think you've made a terrible error with the 50% uptime combined with share reduction. 3 r14 bondings will give 195% shared, but only half the time, equaling out at 97.5% shared stats over time. Meanwhile, augments are 100% all the time. You've completely obsoleted having a summoned companion with bondings, even at r14. That's not even getting into the wild fluctuations in stats every 15 seconds. This needs to be changed or augments will be superior in almost every way. Either keep the reduced stat share but have 100% uptime (best idea), or restore previous stat share and keep 50% uptime (which would be chaotically crappy).
You haven't reduced r12 bondings by 1/2, you've reduced them by 3/4ths.
Hello. IF you are gonna do these changes, CAN you add like a trade store for GMOPS to SMOPs, SMOPS to ULTIMATE. Cause with the upcoming changes you are basically making the SMOPS into the new GMOPS, which would now be like the usual Blue marks of potency currently but the DIFFERENCE IN COST IS MASSIVE, not like GMOPS and MOPS when those changes happened.
Please give this a serious thought, and I am hoping for a response.
I'm intrigued by most of the refining changes and I have no problem with toning down bondings, however I think you've made a terrible error with the 50% uptime combined with share reduction. 3 r14 bondings will give 195% shared, but only half the time, equaling out at 97.5% shared stats over time. Meanwhile, augments are 100% all the time. You've completely obsoleted having a summoned companion with bondings, even at r14. That's not even getting into the wild fluctuations in stats every 15 seconds. This needs to be changed or augments will be superior in almost every way. Either keep the reduced stat share but have 100% uptime (best idea), or restore previous stat share and keep 50% uptime (which would be chaotically crappy).
You haven't reduced r12 bondings by 1/2, you've reduced them by 3/4ths.
Bondings: 97,5% average, but with 15 seconds on/off bursts(but note it will be up the first 15secs.. which often is what matters) Eldritch: 76,5% stable PLUS you can use augment pets with them, making them 176,5%
Stat-wise augments are the way to go, but then you lose the damage and procs from the pet, which also carries over into insignias.
While pet damage is not very significant, the (debuff) procs and insignia effects are.
Picking which to use is not a no-brainer, which is how it should be.
Cryptic: Please make it so we can get the 25,5% pet stat transfer from defensive slots too, or pet selection will be very restricted.
why are you guys increasing the number of smops needed for pure and trans enchants by so much? you go from a total of 10 needed to needing 25 suddenly. and the GMOP requirement for lesser->perfect goes from 14 needed to 30... not cool
Guild - The Imaginary Friends We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
Are Eldrtich Runestones changing so that both powers are used no matter what type of slot, because at the moment you only get the % of pet ratings when in a defense slot. So this limits what augments you can use them with. My augment has 3 Offence slot so Eldrtich are useless for boosting stats.
Also. We know you guys plan things numerous months ahead. That means that you released Mod 12 knowing full well what you had coming down the pipes. You released a module that gave players a strong reason to upgrade numerous Companions to Legendary. You did this knowing that a short time after that you'd be releasing content that made part of that investment possibly useless..
Amen. This just feels insulting.
I disagree. They expanded the Legendary bonus from 15% to 16% for the first one, then the 2nd Active Legendary Companion gives 8% on top of the summoned Companions total buff's, the 3rd extends it yet another 4% or 28% in total out to a total maximum benefit of 31%. That's an increase of 16% over what was previously offered effectively more than doubling the 100% uptime augment boost if you choose or had 5 active Legendary Companions.
None of this is changed in any way.
Bondings had provided an high uptime given they benefitted the player (at a maximum of 295% for 3 Rank 12's) while the companion also strengthened it's own powers to fight at 100%. The Augment companion only Augments it does not also fight with 3 and in some cases 4 attack powers like the Lion.
No other Runestone also offer's the choice of one of two +840 buff WHILE also providing a very large augmentation boost the player benefits from while the Companion does as well! All other Runestones provide only one or another even if their buff's are being increased. Bonding Stones will remain a strong BiS choice for many player's - and by extending Enchants & Runestones to Rank 14 Enchants offering far higher buff's you couldn't give bonding >150% augmentation per stone plus the higher buff value, and while gaining two buff not one while the player & companion both gain benefits (3x higher for the player).
Thankfully in future we'll see more viable Runestone options some may wish to consider upgrading again, perhaps that will depend on the Class of Companion or their skills in addition to active bonus.
Bondings will remain a clear BiS option but they won't be almost 5x more powerful than every other Runestone which basically made other junk status. Those that do continue using Bondings also will find it easier to upgrade their existing Rank 7, 8 or 9 bonding stones as they won't require a duplicate stone each having a need to use several preservation or coal wards to upgrade to then only later sacrifice several on the way to Rank 10 at significant cost.
I realize some may disagree - but the facts above are accurate even if you disagree. Bondings will likely still have a 2-2.5x benefit over most other Runestones. But now people may choose to upgrade others depending on companion or their companions skill choices today their mostly just used as feeders for Artifacts when giving at Rank 7/8 from lockboxes.
You guys are forgetting about the bonuses gained from insignia Protectors buffs when comparing augments to companions for some reason. That swings it for me. Obviously they tried to mostly even it up to give us tough choices. Why wouldn't they when they are also trying to sell both?
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frozenfirevrMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,475Community Moderator
You guys are forgetting about the bonuses gained from insignia Protectors buffs when comparing augments to companions for some reason. That swings it for me. Obviously they tried to mostly even it up to give us tough choices. Why wouldn't they when they are also trying to sell both?
Why should anybody buy both? If somebody uses one, he ain't using the other. If you buy one flagship phone from a company, they shouldn't force throttle the device in future, to make their economy models shine. That's just stupid. This is this, that is that.
Bondings are the premium items... They can't be gotten without interacting with the Zen store. Augments on the other hand, you can get from anywhere...
I just do not see the where the in-game income comes from for players to afford all of these marks and coal wards. it makes no sense at all and is the icing on the hamster cake that is the bonding nerf.
I on the other hand have the wealth enough to buy whatever I want in the game (or I can esily gain more AD). But I realize I did get this by 1)focusing on one char (I had to give up on others..) 2) playing market full gaming time. Like, my last few weeks of playing consisted mostly of shuffling through alts and selling stuff. I fail to see how normal person who just do some dungeons is able to afford 25 SMOps or 10 Ultimate marks for whatever price it will sell. That's hundreds of epic runs for that person and only for one weapon enchantment for one char. Not even talking about bondings where no.1 advice to anyone was to get them really fast and everyone was focusing on them (and yet for some it took months to get them. And there are several rank 12 slots to fill after that..).
But I like new refinment system. Sounds like a less hassle for me - I disliked the whole hording stuff situation to the point I've decided to stop using WF so I don't get frustrated with full inventory. And the need of 2nd the same enchantment for rank 7 - 10 was stupid too.
Edit. I just saw they lowered the SMOP and pres cost for normal enchantments. That make things a bit better.
Comments
As for the other HAMSTER...meh nerf one thing buff another its how they make their money, i get that, but they've come to a point where people aren't getting their moneys worth.
You really want to bring us back to the days when Damnation Scourge Warlocks were regularly kicked out of dungeons because they were the only ones with pets stupid enough to draw agro?
(Nevermind all the posts I made all those years back BEGGING the then devs to stop Companions and Soul Puppets from being capable of initiating agro until their owner's were attacked - or at least giving us the defensive/passive/aggressive option that every other MMO with pets has, for very good reason.)
I suppose some of you haven't been with this game long enough to remember how terrible all that was. I know at least one of you has though - please remind the others.
This change is a step toward making companion+eldritch or augment good choices for some builds and making game play less cookie-cutter.
Cryptic does have a long and storied history of causing the pendulum to swing waaaay too far in the other direction when rebalancing things (though I don't have that impression recently). If they strike a good balance between the options, it will benefit the game.
Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
Monsters dying too fast? Give them more HP. Players relying too much on one strategy? Boost some other strategy or introduce a new one.
But, under no circumstances, do you need to nerf a strategy that players have been relying upon for years.
There should really be a "Nevernerf" policy in "Neverwinter", and every other PVE MMO, for that matter. I suppose a few companies have been catching onto this fact - that there's never any need to nerf anything in a world where you can simply boost something else to counter it. Some inexperienced developers, however, are like elementary school Dungeon Masters, playing D&D for the first time: They feel it their role to just try to kill the players and thwart them at every turn, rather than to make sure everyone has a good time, and thus magically remove their +5 Holy Avengers, or whatever other device they are reliant upon, rather than upping the ante and/or introducing a new item.
I suppose, until players, who have spent hundreds of dollars to upgrade their bonding stones and the like, unite against this sort of bullying via class action lawsuits due to their lost investment, this sort of thing will continue to happen in poorly managed games. It'd be a shame if we required SCOTUS to create a national understanding of basic game balance.
It's not like the combination of nerfs and boosts does anything to counter powercreep... This game has the worst case of powercreep I've ever seen, while games with no-nerf policies remain relatively flat in comparison.
Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
First, we reduced the cost and value of RP to 1/10th of the value to help manage the new currency better. This has zero effect on the cost to level anything as both the cost and what you are earning are reduced equally.
Second, we reduced the costs to level Artifacts and Artifact Equipment by half and reduced the cost of Enchantments/Runestones and Enhancements with a new progression system that reduces the overall RP costs of getting up to rank 12.
1st you're reducing the RP cost of everything by a factor of 10. (i.e. Enchantments, Artifacts, Artifact Gear, etc...)
Then reducing the RP Cost of Artifact Weapons and Gear AGAIN by a actor of 2. (Essentially making it x2 RP all the time for these items.)
Do I understand it correctly now?
You haven't reduced r12 bondings by 1/2, you've reduced them by 3/4ths.
Please give this a serious thought, and I am hoping for a response.
Eldritch: 76,5% stable PLUS you can use augment pets with them, making them 176,5%
Stat-wise augments are the way to go, but then you lose the damage and procs from the pet, which also carries over into insignias.
While pet damage is not very significant, the (debuff) procs and insignia effects are.
Picking which to use is not a no-brainer, which is how it should be.
Cryptic: Please make it so we can get the 25,5% pet stat transfer from defensive slots too, or pet selection will be very restricted.
We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
None of this is changed in any way.
Bondings had provided an high uptime given they benefitted the player (at a maximum of 295% for 3 Rank 12's) while the companion also strengthened it's own powers to fight at 100%. The Augment companion only Augments it does not also fight with 3 and in some cases 4 attack powers like the Lion.
No other Runestone also offer's the choice of one of two +840 buff WHILE also providing a very large augmentation boost the player benefits from while the Companion does as well! All other Runestones provide only one or another even if their buff's are being increased. Bonding Stones will remain a strong BiS choice for many player's - and by extending Enchants & Runestones to Rank 14 Enchants offering far higher buff's you couldn't give bonding >150% augmentation per stone plus the higher buff value, and while gaining two buff not one while the player & companion both gain benefits (3x higher for the player).
Thankfully in future we'll see more viable Runestone options some may wish to consider upgrading again, perhaps that will depend on the Class of Companion or their skills in addition to active bonus.
Bondings will remain a clear BiS option but they won't be almost 5x more powerful than every other Runestone which basically made other junk status. Those that do continue using Bondings also will find it easier to upgrade their existing Rank 7, 8 or 9 bonding stones as they won't require a duplicate stone each having a need to use several preservation or coal wards to upgrade to then only later sacrifice several on the way to Rank 10 at significant cost.
I realize some may disagree - but the facts above are accurate even if you disagree. Bondings will likely still have a 2-2.5x benefit over most other Runestones. But now people may choose to upgrade others depending on companion or their companions skill choices today their mostly just used as feeders for Artifacts when giving at Rank 7/8 from lockboxes.
Obviously they tried to mostly even it up to give us tough choices. Why wouldn't they when they are also trying to sell both?
Bondings are the premium items... They can't be gotten without interacting with the Zen store. Augments on the other hand, you can get from anywhere...
But I like new refinment system. Sounds like a less hassle for me - I disliked the whole hording stuff situation to the point I've decided to stop using WF so I don't get frustrated with full inventory. And the need of 2nd the same enchantment for rank 7 - 10 was stupid too.
Edit. I just saw they lowered the SMOP and pres cost for normal enchantments. That make things a bit better.