Refinement: Technical Details

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stark760

So if you've already struggled through getting the 3% success to flip on a lvl 12, the reward is another 3% level and 1%? Hard to see how that's using less wards. And cutting the refinement value by 1/10 is not doing anything. The lvls might be a little smaller, and the success rates might be a little higher, but honestly, who's upgrading from lvl 1-5's anymore? You've saturated the game with lvl 7-8's of every enchantment. The bonding nerf, I'd say there should be a turn in like you did with the lostmauth set. Considering 75%+ of the game population has bonding's and has spent the majority of early refinement on something that's value and usability you just crushed. But I won't hold my breath, just gotta wait 6 months until you decide to try and suck more out of players and bondings go back to being better than augments yet again.

sabre10

scathias said:

why are you guys increasing the number of smops needed for pure and trans enchants by so much? you go from a total of 10 needed to needing 25 suddenly. and the GMOP requirement for lesser->perfect goes from 14 needed to 30... not cool

@noworries#8859 Will the GMOP and SMOP remain the same price or will there be a cost readjustment as there was when SMOP were introduced?
I feel this greatly affects whether the changes are easier to swallow or not

inyawayupdeep

These changes move the game to a position where free to play is unrealistic, I know people who have played the game for 3+ years and still haven't received even half the coal wards that these changes would require for a person to remain BIS in the game. We ALL need to really start asking that wards and success rates be removed entirely from the game. And if not that then at least bring Coalescent wards back in the trade bar store at the same rates they were before.

damnacious

I have two queries and concerns i'm hoping you can clarify for me please:

1. Is this table correct? Should the runestone actually provide that many HPs?

   noworries#8859 said:

   Overview Thread: https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1234031/refining-refinement
   
   Empowered: Hit Points
   

   Rank 1	Rank 2	Rank 3	Rank 4	Rank 5	Rank 6	Rank 7	Rank 8	Rank 9	Rank 10	Rank 11	Rank 12	Rank 13	Rank 14
   1200	2400	3600	4800	6000	8000	10000	12000	14000	16000	20000	24000	28000	32000

   
   
   

2. What will happen to Character bound items, such as a transmuted artifact main hand weapon? Will they become Bind to Account instead in order to permit transferring it to a character with Refinement Point currency to either upgrade or turn into RP currency?
   
   The obvious problem with having Character bound items is that if you have possession of them on one character, you cannot transfer them to another to use that second character's RP currency.
   
   I believe it would be unfair to players who have Character bound items not to permit them the same opportunities to upgrade their items as anyone else.
   
   With that in mind, i recommend firstly that the Refinement Point currency is shared account-wide or, Character bound items which can be upgraded are changed to Bind to Account instead.
   

3. noworries#8859 said:

   Now because we switched to a currency and want to try for manageable amounts of currency. We reduced both the value of RP points of the items and the cost to upgrade items by a factor of 10. Example a black opal now awards 1,000 RP, but costs are lowered by the same factor as well. To be very clear, this does not change the cost of refinement at all!
   

   Can you clarify and confirm that costs are indeed lowered by a factor of 10 please? For example, current amounts of RP required to upgrade an enchantment from rank 1 to rank 12 costs 2,160,000 Refinement Points while your new system indicates a total of 141,602 Refinement Points is required. My math could be wrong, yet i thought 2,160,000 reduced by a factor of 10 would make that new system require 216,000 instead?
   
4. Can you please clarify and confirm that to upgrade an enchantment from rank 1 to rank 12 will cost a total of 141,602 RP and that the resulting rank 12 enchantment will have a Refinement Point value usable of 50,000? The current system provides 2,160,000 RP necessary to upgrade to rank 12 with a Refinement Point value of 272,160.
   
5. Can you please clarify and confirm that to upgrade an enchantment from rank 1 to rank 12 will require resource costs of 5 x Greater Marks of Potency and 3 x Superior Marks of Potency, as opposed to the current system requiring 5 x Greater Marks of Potency and 6 x Superior Marks of Potency?
   

Many thanks in advance for the clarification and confirmation!

stark760

If the value of everything that refines is dropped by 1/10, what is that going to do to artifact lvl's and artifact equip lvl's? Are they going to Ultimate rank too, past mythic for artifacts? Or are they being left alone and all lvls to be dropped by 1/10.
Edit, see x2 all the time now once hits, 1/10 value, but they have 1/2 lvls.

adinosii

noworries#8859 said:

On top of that, ranks 7, 8 and 9 no longer need a second rank 7, 8 and 9.

Does that only apply to weapon regular enchants and runestones, or to weapon and armor enchants as well?

imperiousshini

When will this be up for testing?

turtlemanjay

I have a question about superior and ultimate marks of potency. Will superior marks remain at their current prize of 100k?

How much will ultimate marks cost? Will there be more ways to gain tthese?

valnoled

I'm sorry. Don't get the point. You do want people leave the game? You basically force them to do that with the bonding stones "improvements" after all players' efforts and AD spent.

aspa12

What are the costs for the new ultimate potency? Will the change affect the existing costs of Superiors and greater? I see this question is not answered for some reason but it is important.

Overall, I think it's good that a new player will be able to upgrade his enchantments easily, at least easier than we did to rank 12.

ps: What happens if I have half refined an enchantment? will the rp be there after patch? And what happens for the rp that an enchanment might have in overflow?

tom

Well so basicly i need a coal word for every rank 14 ench... HAMSTER my live cant afford that on my chars... thats like 100 coals i need xD

turtlemanjay

this is going to take quite some time to get used to

araneax

turtlemanjay said:

this is going to take quite some time to get used to

Months bro.... months...
It will be a painful... horrible experience..
Some will leave, some will not.

And we can just hope for the best.

Talking about the best, just the name " coal ward " started to make me feel sick ....
" Pres wards " makes me have a headache .... and the chances of " 1 % and 3 % .. well... i think i need to go to a hospital.

frozenfirevr

About the Empowered Runestones... HP is usually 4x other stats. So considering you're getting 2000 for other stats, HP should've been 8000... 32000 is quite certainly a mistake... @noworries#8859

All enchantments are messed up wrt. HP... R13 Radiants give 3500 instead of 3400, Dual-stat enchants give 2200 HP instead of 2300... Triples give 2400 instead of 2800... It MUST be x4, else everything goes wrong.

stark760

Doesn't seem to be a lot of people liking the announcement. Like that matters.

vida44

What is going to happen to Svardborg marks? will they finally be replaced?

reyana

Hey. I have a question.
Rank 7,8,9 will not longer need a rank 7,8 or 9 enchant to upgrade it.
Whats about 10 and more? will they still need a second rank 10, 11, 12 enchant to upgrade it?

thefiresidecat

reyana#6650 said:

Hey. I have a question.
Rank 7,8,9 will not longer need a rank 7,8 or 9 enchant to upgrade it.
Whats about 10 and more? will they still need a second rank 10, 11, 12 enchant to upgrade it?

they never did

reyana

Oh okay thank you. I didnt know because i just buy my R12s ;D never upgraded to 12. Thanks

silence1x

It's a Cryptic world, we just live in it.

I said to myself the other day "Self, what changes do you think will be coming up that will inflame the populace? We haven't had that in a while." Now I know.

Much like other changes in the past, this change to RP, enchant ranks, bondings, etc. seems to be catering to the BiS folks that have run out of stuff to do. I'm all for that if it means the rest of us scrubs can benefit as well. I like the RP changes and the fact that we don't have to have duplicates for R7 - R9 (my alts will love this).

I knew I should have bought a few augments on the AH the other day. . .

treesclimber

Ok, this seems good, but....ultimate, that sounds like dragonball or something, i was expecting something like :"Mark of the titan", something more neverwinter like.

Everybody is freaking out and i don't know why, it's change, doesn't mean for worse.

artifleur

wraithr32 said:

Are Eldrtich Runestones changing so that both powers are used no matter what type of slot, because at the moment you only get the % of pet ratings when in a defense slot. So this limits what augments you can use them with. My augment has 3 Offence slot so Eldrtich are useless for boosting stats.

I'd like an answer to this question too.

AFAIK there is only one augment companion with 3 defense runestone slots which is likely to become the one companion to rule them all.

froger

Please give some consideration to upgrading the marks themselves, especially if you make specialty marks again for items (SOMI weapons). Getting into runs as a DPS (yes, yell at me work on my alt then talk about how alt unfriendly the game is) is nearly impossible and when I do get a run I’m getting blue and purple marks when I need orange. At least if there were a system for using unneeded marks, other than as minimal refinement, it would feel like there is progression.

artifleur

mentinmindmaker said:

Bondings: 97,5% average, but with 15 seconds on/off bursts(but note it will be up the first 15secs.. which often is what matters)
Eldritch: 76,5% stable PLUS you can use augment pets with them, making them 176,5%

Stat-wise augments are the way to go, but then you lose the damage and procs from the pet, which also carries over into insignias.

While pet damage is not very significant, the (debuff) procs and insignia effects are.

Picking which to use is not a no-brainer, which is how it should be.

Cryptic: Please make it so we can get the 25,5% pet stat transfer from defensive slots too, or pet selection will be very restricted.

Unless they were changed, eldritch runestones only give their % of stats transfer (and only in defense slots) while bondings also give a large amount of power or defense on top of the stats transfer. So the difference won't be that large but augments with 3 defense slots will probably still win.

fizgigtiznalkie

The weapon and armor enchantment higher end upgrades seem way too expensive.

mullymoomoo

I got a question that I did not see asked yet. Apologies if it has been asked already. Currently if you feed matching stones into another you get a match bonus. For example feeding azure into another azure gives a matching bonus of X2 RP.

What are you guys doing to compensate for this or do we lose this under your new system?

Because if you don't compensate for this then you are in fact nerfing the refinement process

adinosii

mentinmindmaker said:

Bondings: 97,5% average, but with 15 seconds on/off bursts(but note it will be up the first 15secs.. which often is what matters)

Actually no. This is for the simple reason that your stats really matter most in the toughest fights - in boss fights, and they generally last a lot longer than 15 seconds.

Most short fights are just trash fights, and they really don't require the extra stats from bondings anyhow.

frozenfirevr

mentinmindmaker said:

pterias said:

I'm intrigued by most of the refining changes and I have no problem with toning down bondings, however I think you've made a terrible error with the 50% uptime combined with share reduction. 3 r14 bondings will give 195% shared, but only half the time, equaling out at 97.5% shared stats over time. Meanwhile, augments are 100% all the time. You've completely obsoleted having a summoned companion with bondings, even at r14. That's not even getting into the wild fluctuations in stats every 15 seconds. This needs to be changed or augments will be superior in almost every way. Either keep the reduced stat share but have 100% uptime (best idea), or restore previous stat share and keep 50% uptime (which would be chaotically crappy).

You haven't reduced r12 bondings by 1/2, you've reduced them by 3/4ths.

Bondings: 97,5% average, but with 15 seconds on/off bursts(but note it will be up the first 15secs.. which often is what matters)
Eldritch: 76,5% stable PLUS you can use augment pets with them, making them 176,5%

Stat-wise augments are the way to go, but then you lose the damage and procs from the pet, which also carries over into insignias.

While pet damage is not very significant, the (debuff) procs and insignia effects are.

Picking which to use is not a no-brainer, which is how it should be.

Cryptic: Please make it so we can get the 25,5% pet stat transfer from defensive slots too, or pet selection will be very restricted.

Averages wouldn't work, not for cooldowns like this, if it were like Brutality, fine, but this doesn't reset after fight.

Also, if there's a cooldown, all buffs/debuffs need to be applied within that window, but everybody doesn't get the same window (sometimes companions seem to prefer watching the fight than fighting), and you have to use all your heavy attacks within that window which again is unlikely. And if you get CCed, knocked, etc (which happens in pretty much every fight) during the time when bonding is up, it again, goes wasted. You're essentially looking at ~50% stat transfer that can be used effectively, nowhere close to 97.5%

If this change goes live, bondings can only be trashed, no second thoughts about it (can't even use them for stats since other regular enchantments give 2000 while bonding gives 1050)...

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