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Refinement: Technical Details

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  • sabre10sabre10 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 340 Arc User
    scathias said:

    why are you guys increasing the number of smops needed for pure and trans enchants by so much? you go from a total of 10 needed to needing 25 suddenly. and the GMOP requirement for lesser->perfect goes from 14 needed to 30... not cool

    @noworries#8859 Will the GMOP and SMOP remain the same price or will there be a cost readjustment as there was when SMOP were introduced?
    I feel this greatly affects whether the changes are easier to swallow or not
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  • inyawayupdeepinyawayupdeep Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 206 Arc User
    These changes move the game to a position where free to play is unrealistic, I know people who have played the game for 3+ years and still haven't received even half the coal wards that these changes would require for a person to remain BIS in the game. We ALL need to really start asking that wards and success rates be removed entirely from the game. And if not that then at least bring Coalescent wards back in the trade bar store at the same rates they were before.
  • damnaciousdamnacious Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 354 Arc User
    I have two queries and concerns i'm hoping you can clarify for me please:
    1. Is this table correct? Should the runestone actually provide that many HPs?

      Overview Thread: https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1234031/refining-refinement

      Empowered: Hit Points

      Rank 1Rank 2Rank 3Rank 4Rank 5Rank 6Rank 7Rank 8Rank 9Rank 10Rank 11Rank 12Rank 13Rank 14
      120024003600 4800 6000 8000 10000 12000 14000 16000 20000 24000 28000 32000


    2. What will happen to Character bound items, such as a transmuted artifact main hand weapon? Will they become Bind to Account instead in order to permit transferring it to a character with Refinement Point currency to either upgrade or turn into RP currency?

      The obvious problem with having Character bound items is that if you have possession of them on one character, you cannot transfer them to another to use that second character's RP currency.

      I believe it would be unfair to players who have Character bound items not to permit them the same opportunities to upgrade their items as anyone else.

      With that in mind, i recommend firstly that the Refinement Point currency is shared account-wide or, Character bound items which can be upgraded are changed to Bind to Account instead.
    3. Now because we switched to a currency and want to try for manageable amounts of currency. We reduced both the value of RP points of the items and the cost to upgrade items by a factor of 10. Example a black opal now awards 1,000 RP, but costs are lowered by the same factor as well. To be very clear, this does not change the cost of refinement at all!

      Can you clarify and confirm that costs are indeed lowered by a factor of 10 please? For example, current amounts of RP required to upgrade an enchantment from rank 1 to rank 12 costs 2,160,000 Refinement Points while your new system indicates a total of 141,602 Refinement Points is required. My math could be wrong, yet i thought 2,160,000 reduced by a factor of 10 would make that new system require 216,000 instead?
    4. Can you please clarify and confirm that to upgrade an enchantment from rank 1 to rank 12 will cost a total of 141,602 RP and that the resulting rank 12 enchantment will have a Refinement Point value usable of 50,000? The current system provides 2,160,000 RP necessary to upgrade to rank 12 with a Refinement Point value of 272,160.
    5. Can you please clarify and confirm that to upgrade an enchantment from rank 1 to rank 12 will require resource costs of 5 x Greater Marks of Potency and 3 x Superior Marks of Potency, as opposed to the current system requiring 5 x Greater Marks of Potency and 6 x Superior Marks of Potency?
    Many thanks in advance for the clarification and confirmation!








  • stark760stark760 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 654 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    If the value of everything that refines is dropped by 1/10, what is that going to do to artifact lvl's and artifact equip lvl's? Are they going to Ultimate rank too, past mythic for artifacts? Or are they being left alone and all lvls to be dropped by 1/10.
    Edit, see x2 all the time now once hits, 1/10 value, but they have 1/2 lvls.

    Post edited by stark760 on
  • adinosiiadinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User


    On top of that, ranks 7, 8 and 9 no longer need a second rank 7, 8 and 9.

    Does that only apply to weapon regular enchants and runestones, or to weapon and armor enchants as well?
    Hoping for improvements...
  • imperiousshiniimperiousshini Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 199 Arc User
    When will this be up for testing?
  • turtlemanjayturtlemanjay Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10 Arc User
    I have a question about superior and ultimate marks of potency. Will superior marks remain at their current prize of 100k?

    How much will ultimate marks cost? Will there be more ways to gain tthese?
  • valnoledvalnoled Member Posts: 38 Arc User
    I'm sorry. Don't get the point. You do want people leave the game? You basically force them to do that with the bonding stones "improvements" after all players' efforts and AD spent.
  • aspa12aspa12 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 33 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    What are the costs for the new ultimate potency? Will the change affect the existing costs of Superiors and greater? I see this question is not answered for some reason but it is important.

    Overall, I think it's good that a new player will be able to upgrade his enchantments easily, at least easier than we did to rank 12.

    ps: What happens if I have half refined an enchantment? will the rp be there after patch? And what happens for the rp that an enchanment might have in overflow?


    Post edited by aspa12 on
    If you can't convince them confuse them.
  • tom#6998 tom Member Posts: 952 Arc User
    Well so basicly i need a coal word for every rank 14 ench... <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> my live cant afford that on my chars... thats like 100 coals i need xD
  • turtlemanjayturtlemanjay Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    this is going to take quite some time to get used to
  • araneaxaraneax Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 639 Arc User

    this is going to take quite some time to get used to

    Months bro.... months...
    It will be a painful... horrible experience..
    Some will leave, some will not.

    And we can just hope for the best.

    Talking about the best, just the name " coal ward " started to make me feel sick ....
    " Pres wards " makes me have a headache .... and the chances of " 1 % and 3 % .. well... i think i need to go to a hospital.
    d7d81448-df6b-48cf-94a0-cf1ba87d861a_zpsish6zr2v.jpg

  • frozenfirevrfrozenfirevr Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,475 Community Moderator
    edited August 2017
    About the Empowered Runestones... HP is usually 4x other stats. So considering you're getting 2000 for other stats, HP should've been 8000... 32000 is quite certainly a mistake... @noworries#8859

    All enchantments are messed up wrt. HP... R13 Radiants give 3500 instead of 3400, Dual-stat enchants give 2200 HP instead of 2300... Triples give 2400 instead of 2800... It MUST be x4, else everything goes wrong.
    FrozenFire
  • stark760stark760 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 654 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    Doesn't seem to be a lot of people liking the announcement. Like that matters.
  • vida44vida44 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 667 Arc User
    What is going to happen to Svardborg marks? will they finally be replaced?
  • reyana#6650 reyana Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    Hey. I have a question.
    Rank 7,8,9 will not longer need a rank 7,8 or 9 enchant to upgrade it.
    Whats about 10 and more? will they still need a second rank 10, 11, 12 enchant to upgrade it?
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User

    Hey. I have a question.
    Rank 7,8,9 will not longer need a rank 7,8 or 9 enchant to upgrade it.
    Whats about 10 and more? will they still need a second rank 10, 11, 12 enchant to upgrade it?

    they never did
  • reyana#6650 reyana Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    Oh okay thank you. I didnt know because i just buy my R12s ;D never upgraded to 12. Thanks :)
  • silence1xsilence1x Member Posts: 1,503 Arc User
    It's a Cryptic world, we just live in it.

    I said to myself the other day "Self, what changes do you think will be coming up that will inflame the populace? We haven't had that in a while." Now I know.

    Much like other changes in the past, this change to RP, enchant ranks, bondings, etc. seems to be catering to the BiS folks that have run out of stuff to do. I'm all for that if it means the rest of us scrubs can benefit as well. I like the RP changes and the fact that we don't have to have duplicates for R7 - R9 (my alts will love this).

    I knew I should have bought a few augments on the AH the other day. . .
    I aim to misbehave
  • treesclimbertreesclimber Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,161 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    Ok, this seems good, but....ultimate, that sounds like dragonball or something, i was expecting something like :"Mark of the titan", something more neverwinter like.

    Everybody is freaking out and i don't know why, it's change, doesn't mean for worse.

  • artifleurartifleur Member Posts: 642 Arc User
    wraithr32 said:

    Are Eldrtich Runestones changing so that both powers are used no matter what type of slot, because at the moment you only get the % of pet ratings when in a defense slot. So this limits what augments you can use them with. My augment has 3 Offence slot so Eldrtich are useless for boosting stats.

    I'd like an answer to this question too.

    AFAIK there is only one augment companion with 3 defense runestone slots which is likely to become the one companion to rule them all.
  • froger#9967 froger Member Posts: 615 Arc User
    Please give some consideration to upgrading the marks themselves, especially if you make specialty marks again for items (SOMI weapons). Getting into runs as a DPS (yes, yell at me work on my alt then talk about how alt unfriendly the game is) is nearly impossible and when I do get a run I’m getting blue and purple marks when I need orange. At least if there were a system for using unneeded marks, other than as minimal refinement, it would feel like there is progression.
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  • artifleurartifleur Member Posts: 642 Arc User
    edited August 2017


    Bondings: 97,5% average, but with 15 seconds on/off bursts(but note it will be up the first 15secs.. which often is what matters)
    Eldritch: 76,5% stable PLUS you can use augment pets with them, making them 176,5%

    Stat-wise augments are the way to go, but then you lose the damage and procs from the pet, which also carries over into insignias.

    While pet damage is not very significant, the (debuff) procs and insignia effects are.

    Picking which to use is not a no-brainer, which is how it should be.

    Cryptic: Please make it so we can get the 25,5% pet stat transfer from defensive slots too, or pet selection will be very restricted.

    Unless they were changed, eldritch runestones only give their % of stats transfer (and only in defense slots) while bondings also give a large amount of power or defense on top of the stats transfer. So the difference won't be that large but augments with 3 defense slots will probably still win.
  • fizgigtiznalkie#4436 fizgigtiznalkie Member Posts: 372 Arc User
    The weapon and armor enchantment higher end upgrades seem way too expensive.
  • mullymoomoo#7130 mullymoomoo Member Posts: 81 Arc User
    I got a question that I did not see asked yet. Apologies if it has been asked already. Currently if you feed matching stones into another you get a match bonus. For example feeding azure into another azure gives a matching bonus of X2 RP.

    What are you guys doing to compensate for this or do we lose this under your new system?

    Because if you don't compensate for this then you are in fact nerfing the refinement process
  • adinosiiadinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User


    Bondings: 97,5% average, but with 15 seconds on/off bursts(but note it will be up the first 15secs.. which often is what matters)

    Actually no. This is for the simple reason that your stats really matter most in the toughest fights - in boss fights, and they generally last a lot longer than 15 seconds.

    Most short fights are just trash fights, and they really don't require the extra stats from bondings anyhow.

    Hoping for improvements...
  • frozenfirevrfrozenfirevr Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,475 Community Moderator
    edited August 2017

    pterias said:

    I'm intrigued by most of the refining changes and I have no problem with toning down bondings, however I think you've made a terrible error with the 50% uptime combined with share reduction. 3 r14 bondings will give 195% shared, but only half the time, equaling out at 97.5% shared stats over time. Meanwhile, augments are 100% all the time. You've completely obsoleted having a summoned companion with bondings, even at r14. That's not even getting into the wild fluctuations in stats every 15 seconds. This needs to be changed or augments will be superior in almost every way. Either keep the reduced stat share but have 100% uptime (best idea), or restore previous stat share and keep 50% uptime (which would be chaotically crappy).

    You haven't reduced r12 bondings by 1/2, you've reduced them by 3/4ths.

    Bondings: 97,5% average, but with 15 seconds on/off bursts(but note it will be up the first 15secs.. which often is what matters)
    Eldritch: 76,5% stable PLUS you can use augment pets with them, making them 176,5%

    Stat-wise augments are the way to go, but then you lose the damage and procs from the pet, which also carries over into insignias.

    While pet damage is not very significant, the (debuff) procs and insignia effects are.

    Picking which to use is not a no-brainer, which is how it should be.

    Cryptic: Please make it so we can get the 25,5% pet stat transfer from defensive slots too, or pet selection will be very restricted.
    Averages wouldn't work, not for cooldowns like this, if it were like Brutality, fine, but this doesn't reset after fight.

    Also, if there's a cooldown, all buffs/debuffs need to be applied within that window, but everybody doesn't get the same window (sometimes companions seem to prefer watching the fight than fighting), and you have to use all your heavy attacks within that window which again is unlikely. And if you get CCed, knocked, etc (which happens in pretty much every fight) during the time when bonding is up, it again, goes wasted. You're essentially looking at ~50% stat transfer that can be used effectively, nowhere close to 97.5% :p

    If this change goes live, bondings can only be trashed, no second thoughts about it (can't even use them for stats since other regular enchantments give 2000 while bonding gives 1050)...
    FrozenFire
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