Refinement: Technical Details

noworries

Overview Thread: https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1234031/refining-refinement

This thread will contain the different technical numbers that are really needed to understand how the new system will look and feel. I apologize for the layout of the tables, it was what the forums would allow.

Progression Charts:


Azure: Critical Strike
Dark: Movement - Armor Penetration - Life Steal
Radiant: Power
Silvery: Recovery - Deflection

Rank 1	Rank 2	Rank 3	Rank 4	Rank 5	Rank 6	Rank 7	Rank 8	Rank 9	Rank 10	Rank 11	Rank 12	Rank 13	Rank 14
25	50	75	100	150	200	250	300	400	500	600	700	850	1000

Brutal: Movement - Power - Critical Strike - Defense
Cruel: Movement - Power - Recovery - Defense - Deflection
Savage: Critical Strike - Armor Penetration - Life Steal
Vicious: Armor Penetration - Power - Deflection - Life Steal
Wicked: Armor Penetration - Recovery - Defense - Movement

Rank 1	Rank 2	Rank 3	Rank 4	Rank 5	Rank 6	Rank 7	Rank 8	Rank 9	Rank 10	Rank 11	Rank 12	Rank 13	Rank 14
15	30	45	60	90	120	150	180	240	300	360	420	510	600

Brutal: XP Bonus
Cruel: Glory Bonus
Savage: Gold Bonus - XP Bonus
Vicious: Glory Bonus - XP Bonus
Wicked: Gold Bonus

Rank 1	Rank 2	Rank 3	Rank 4	Rank 5	Rank 6	Rank 7	Rank 8	Rank 9	Rank 10	Rank 11	Rank 12	Rank 13	Rank 14
3	4	5	6	7	8	9	10	11	12	13	14	15	16

Azure: XP Bonus
Radiant: Gold Bonus
Silvery: Glory Bonus
Training: XP Bonus

Rank 1	Rank 2	Rank 3	Rank 4	Rank 5	Rank 6	Rank 7	Rank 8	Rank 9	Rank 10	Rank 11	Rank 12	Rank 13	Rank 14
6	7	8	9	10	11	12	13	14	16	18	20	22	24

Black Ice: Power - Defense
Gigantic: Critical Strike - Deflection
Demonic: Armor Penetration
Draconic: Armor Penetration

Rank 1	Rank 2	Rank 3	Rank 4	Rank 5	Rank 6	Rank 7	Rank 8	Rank 9	Rank 10	Rank 11	Rank 12	Rank 13	Rank 14
N/A	N/A	50	75	105	140	175	215	275	350	425	500	600	700

Black Ice: Critical Strike - Recovery - Deflection - Life Steal
Demonic: Power - Critical Strike - Deflection - Life Steal
Draconic: Power - Recovery - Defense - Life Steal
Gigantic: Recovery - Armor Penetration - Defense

Rank 1	Rank 2	Rank 3	Rank 4	Rank 5	Rank 6	Rank 7	Rank 8	Rank 9	Rank 10	Rank 11	Rank 12	Rank 13	Rank 14
N/A	N/A	25	38	63	70	88	108	138	175	212	250	300	350

Brutal: Hit Points
Savage: Hit Points
Wicked: Hit Points

Rank 1	Rank 2	Rank 3	Rank 4	Rank 5	Rank 6	Rank 7	Rank 8	Rank 9	Rank 10	Rank 11	Rank 12	Rank 13	Rank 14
90	180	270	360	450	600	750	900	1050	1200	1500	1800	2100	2400

Draconic: Hit Points
Demonic: Hit Points

Rank 1	Rank 2	Rank 3	Rank 4	Rank 5	Rank 6	Rank 7	Rank 8	Rank 9	Rank 10	Rank 11	Rank 12	Rank 13	Rank 14
N/A	N/A	315	420	525	700	875	1050	1225	1400	1750	2100	2450	2800

Radiant: Hit Points

Rank 1	Rank 2	Rank 3	Rank 4	Rank 5	Rank 6	Rank 7	Rank 8	Rank 9	Rank 10	Rank 11	Rank 12	Rank 13	Rank 14
150	300	450	600	750	1000	1250	1500	1750	2000	2500	3000	3500	4000

Gigantic: Hit Points

Rank 1	Rank 2	Rank 3	Rank 4	Rank 5	Rank 6	Rank 7	Rank 8	Rank 9	Rank 10	Rank 11	Rank 12	Rank 13	Rank 14
N/A	N/A	N/A	210	263	350	438	525	613	700	875	1050	1225	1400

Tymora: Hidden Pouch

Rank 1	Rank 2	Rank 3	Rank 4	Rank 5	Rank 6	Rank 7	Rank 8	Rank 9	Rank 10	Rank 11	Rank 12	Rank 13	Rank 14
0.5	1	1.5	2	2.5	3	3.5	4	4.5	5	5.5	6	6.5	7

Quartermaster's: Bag of Goods Chance

Rank 1	Rank 2	Rank 3	Rank 4	Rank 5	Rank 6	Rank 7	Rank 8	Rank 9	Rank 10	Rank 11	Rank 12	Rank 13	Rank 14
N/A	N/A	N/A	N/A	0.5	0.75	1	1.5	2	2.5	3	3.5	4	4.5

Arcane: Recovery - Deflection
Empowered: Power
Profane: Critical Strike - Defense

Rank 1	Rank 2	Rank 3	Rank 4	Rank 5	Rank 6	Rank 7	Rank 8	Rank 9	Rank 10	Rank 11	Rank 12	Rank 13	Rank 14
50	100	150	200	300	400	500	600	800	1000	1200	1400	1700	2000

Eldritch: Influence

Rank 1	Rank 2	Rank 3	Rank 4	Rank 5	Rank 6	Rank 7	Rank 8	Rank 9	Rank 10	Rank 11	Rank 12	Rank 13	Rank 14
2	3	4	5	6	7	8	10.5	13	15.5	18	20.5	23	25.5

Empowered: Hit Points

Rank 1	Rank 2	Rank 3	Rank 4	Rank 5	Rank 6	Rank 7	Rank 8	Rank 9	Rank 10	Rank 11	Rank 12	Rank 13	Rank 14
750	1500	2250	3000	3750	5000	6250	7500	8750	10000	12500	15000	17500	20000

Bonding

Rank 7	Rank 8	Rank 9	Rank 10	Rank 11	Rank 12	Rank 13	Rank 14
30% stats 300 Power/Defense	35% stats 350 Power/Defense	40% stats 450 Power/Defense	45% stats 550 Power/Defense	50% stats 650 Power/Defense	55% stats 750 Power/Defense	60% stats 900 Power/Defense	65% stats 1050 Power/Defense

noworries

Dragon Hoard - will now drop gemstones (white pearl, peridot, etc.)
Fey Blessing - Still drops enchantments
Tenebrous - % of hitpoints dealt in Necrotic Damage and % chance to occur, no longer has hidden internal cooldown timer, caps at 28% chance to proc the highest equipped Tenebrous enchant (7% dealt at a 28% proc chance is the max)

Rank 8	Rank 9	Rank 10	Rank 11	Rank 12	Rank 13	Rank 14
1	2	3	4	5	6	7

Tranquil: Hit Points gained

Rank 8	Rank 9	Rank 10	Rank 11	Rank 12	Rank 13	Rank 14
1250	1500	1750	2250	2750	3250	4000

Indomitable: Damage Increase

Rank 8	Rank 9	Rank 10	Rank 11	Rank 12	Rank 13	Rank 14
10%	20%	30%	40%	50%	60%	70%

Serene: Hit Points gained

Rank 8	Rank 9	Rank 10	Rank 11	Rank 12	Rank 13	Rank 14
600	1000	1400	1800	2200	2600	3000

Weapon and Armor Enhancements:

These are very difficult to put into an easy to read chart on here. And because so many have scaling values they will appear very differently in game than the base values I'd be posting. The new tier typically has an increase in stats. Also in some cases different tiers were adjusted to make the progression a better flow.


Hopefully we will get preview soon and this information will be more readily available there.

noworries

Enchantment/Runestone Ranks:

Rank	Chance Success	RP Required	Materials
1->2	100%	2	Minor Potency
2->3	90%	5	2x Minor Potency
3->4	80%	20	Lesser Potency
4->5	70%	75	2x Lesser Potency
5->6	60%	300	Potency
6->7	50%	1200	2x Potency
7->8	40%	5000	Greater Potency
8->9	30%	15000	2x Greater Potency
9->10	20%	30000	2x Greater Potency + 3x Enchantment Stones
10->11	10%	40000	Superior Potency
11->12	5%	50000	2x Superior Potency + 3x Greater Enchantment Stones
12->13	3%	55000	Ultimate Potency
13->14	1%	60000	2x Ultimate Potency + 3x Superior Enchantment Stones

Armor/Weapon Enhancement Ranks:

Rank	Chance Success	RP Required	Materials
Shard->Lesser	1%	0	9 Identical Shards
Lesser->Average	1%	5000	5x Greater Potency
Average->Greater	1%	15000	10x Greater Potency + 3x Enchatment Stones
Greater->Perfect	1%	30000	15x Greater Potency + 6x Enchantment Stones
Perfect->Pure	1%	40000	10x Superior Potency + 3x Greater Enchantment Stones
Pure->Transcendent	1%	50000	15x Superior Potency + 6x Greater Enchantment Stones
Transcendent->Unparalleled	1%	55000	10x Ultimate Potency + 3x Superior Enchantment Stones

noworries

Refinement Point Breakdown:

Enchantments/Runestones/Armor and Weapon Enhancements

Rank	Refinement Points
1	0
2	2
3	5
4	25
5	100
6	400
7	1000
8	2500
9	7500
10	12500
11	25000
12	50000
13	75000
14	100000

Gemstones:

Rank	Refinement Points
Quartz (new)	1
Faintly Glowing Citrine	10
White Pearl	10
Amethyst (new)	25
Peridot	50
Black Pearl (new)	100
Aquamarine	150
Resplendent Citrine	180
Dravite	250
Emerald (new)	250
Dread Spinel	250
Flawless Sapphire	500
Black Opal	1000
Amnian Jadeite	2500
Blood Ruby	5000
Alexandrite (new)	10000
Brilliant Diamond	25000
Violet Diamond (new)	50000
Teal Diamond (new)	100000

archangelzorak01

I always said, "If they introduce rank 14 enchants I'll quit the game."

Guess I have to decide if I'm going to live up to that statement now.

I'm all for simplifying the Refinement system, but did you really have to introduce more ranks?

'Ultimate Potency'? What will these cost?

Even more reliance on Preservation and Coalescent wards... wonderful.

*eyes the door, unsure of how to proceed*

rjc9000

noworries#8859 said:

Armor/Weapon Enhancement Ranks:

Rank	Chance Success	RP Required	Materials
Shard->Lesser	1%	0	9 Identical Shards
Lesser->Average	1%	5000	5x Greater Potency
Average->Greater	1%	15000	10x Greater Potency + 3x Enchatment Stones
Greater->Perfect	1%	30000	15x Greater Potency + 6x Enchantment Stones
Perfect->Pure	1%	40000	10x Superior Potency + 3x Greater Enchantment Stones
Pure->Transcendent	1%	50000	15x Superior Potency + 6x Greater Enchantment Stones
Transcendent->Unparalleled	1%	55000	10x Ultimate Potency + 3x Superior Enchantment Stones

Mmmmaybe I should accelerate progress on my weapon enchant project....

Q_Q_Q_Q_Q_Q_Q_Q_Q_Q


And will free Unparalleled Enchants come to the preview test store ala the the Trans enchants during Mod11's weapon enchant change?

trollpc

Hello, thanks for the RP charts.

I have a question, will the accumulated RP points be Account bound? Or I will have to send everything to my main char and break the items with that char?

Thank you.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

noworries

archangelzorak01 said:

Even more reliance on Preservation and Coalescent wards... wonderful.

Needing a second enchantment/enhancement to go up a tier is no longer a thing. That alone significantly reduces the number of coalescent wards it takes to level up a weapon/armor Enhancement. The percentage chance of success of enchantments and runestones was improved as well, meaning fewer preservation wards needed.

sorce

noworries#8859 said:

archangelzorak01 said:

Even more reliance on Preservation and Coalescent wards... wonderful.

Needing a second enchantment/enhancement to go up a tier is no longer a thing. That alone significantly reduces the number of coalescent wards it takes to level up a weapon/armor Enhancement. The percentage chance of success of enchantments and runestones was improved as well, meaning fewer preservation wards needed.

You got rid of some of the 25 and 20% chances, but added more 3 and 1% chances - tell me HOW exactly that means less wards will be needed?

gorth7186

I can see this helping newer players get into the game. On the other hand people who are high IL with multiple characters at high IL are now having to deal with another massive jump to get back to where they were. In all I am not sure how this will play out. I look forward to seeing the changes come onto preview and testing them out.

noworries

confusedpoof said:

noworries#8859 said:

archangelzorak01 said:

Even more reliance on Preservation and Coalescent wards... wonderful.

Needing a second enchantment/enhancement to go up a tier is no longer a thing. That alone significantly reduces the number of coalescent wards it takes to level up a weapon/armor Enhancement. The percentage chance of success of enchantments and runestones was improved as well, meaning fewer preservation wards needed.

You got rid of some of the 25 and 20% chances, but added more 3 and 1% chances - tell me HOW exactly that means less wards will be needed?

Those are new ranks.

Currently on live the percentage chances are:
95, 90, 85, 60, 40, 30, 25, 20, 10, 5, 3

The new percentages are:
100, 90, 80, 70, 60, 50, 40, 30, 20, 10, 5

Then there are two new ranks which are 3 and 1.

On top of that, ranks 7, 8 and 9 no longer need a second rank 7, 8 and 9. Which takes out all of the ranking up of second gems over and over (which required their own preservation wards to rank up).

icyclass

Thanks for the numbers. I'm sure this will take some time to think through but I don't see any reason to panic yet

What about the gems from Storm King's Thunder that give more RP when used with Relic weapons? Will their new values be based on the higher or lower of their current values? (Also applies to Dravite from the Underdark weapon vendor.)

gankdalf

noworries#8859 said:

confusedpoof said:

noworries#8859 said:

archangelzorak01 said:

Even more reliance on Preservation and Coalescent wards... wonderful.

Needing a second enchantment/enhancement to go up a tier is no longer a thing. That alone significantly reduces the number of coalescent wards it takes to level up a weapon/armor Enhancement. The percentage chance of success of enchantments and runestones was improved as well, meaning fewer preservation wards needed.

You got rid of some of the 25 and 20% chances, but added more 3 and 1% chances - tell me HOW exactly that means less wards will be needed?

Those are new ranks.

Currently on live the percentage chances are:
95, 90, 85, 60, 40, 30, 25, 20, 10, 5, 3

The new percentages are:
100, 90, 80, 70, 60, 50, 40, 30, 20, 10, 5

Then there are two new ranks which are 3 and 1.

On top of that, ranks 7, 8 and 9 no longer need a second rank 7, 8 and 9. Which takes out all of the ranking up of second gems over and over (which required their own preservation wards to rank up).

So Every single player that spent months/millions on getting and upgrading Bondings now have to switch to Eldritch and Auguments because they seem to be the better choice.

I think you might wanna look that solution over and maybe try to make the bondings still BiS over Auguments since everyone invested in that.

beckylunatic

icyclass said:

What about the gems from Storm King's Thunder that give more RP when used with Relic weapons? Will their new values be based on the higher or lower of their current values? (Also applies to Dravite from the Underdark weapon vendor.)

I would guess you can either convert the SoMI refinement directly into RP currency for the low value as-is, or restore it to convert at the higher value. And it'll be RP you can move around your account until you crunch it.

Dravite will probably just be treated as that flat value.

froger

How does this system affect artifact weapons (main / off) and armor (neck / belt)? What stones will be required to upgrade?

cambo1682

What is the plan for existing reagents? For example we have stacks of greater marks of power etc in our guild bank? Are they going to be useful one day then can only be broken down into RP the next?

eion311

We do not need more ranks for enchants! I cannot understand why you would introduce more when people whine about power creep everyday.

lardeson

hahahaahah 1% from average to greater. lol what? i can see myself spending over 1k pres. wards and still not getting trans. xd please look into that % on weapon and armor enhancement. thats sick xd

noworries

froger#9967 said:

How does this system affect artifact weapons (main / off) and armor (neck / belt)? What stones will be required to upgrade?

Artifact Equipment has had the progression RP cut in half, the reagents are still the same it is just that Marks of Power/Stability/Union have been changed to all be the same thing which is called Enchanting Stones.

archangelzorak01

@noworries#8859 I was thinking more from the perspective of a BiS character upgrading to the 'new' BiS. All my rank 12's need be upgraded to rank 14 and my weapon and armor enchants need to go from Transcendent to Unparalleled. Not to mention the fact that I may need a new set of Runestones and an augment companion. I may have to completely scrap my Paladin to afford my TR.

Also. We know you guys plan things numerous months ahead. That means that you released Mod 12 knowing full well what you had coming down the pipes. You released a module that gave players a strong reason to upgrade numerous Companions to Legendary. You did this knowing that a short time after that you'd be releasing content that made part of that investment possibly useless. How much AD was spent upgrading extra companions that now will potentially need to be spent again to upgrade an augment.

thefiresidecat

ok so I"m kind of feeling numb at all these changes. maybe this is terrible maybe it's not so bad. I honestly don't know. (but I"m still pissed about bonding changes when we've sank so much into it. it feels like false advertising) so when will it hit preview so we can form honest opinions about it?

bullrath

Just wondering dose the teneborus proc frequently now or dose it still take 30sec to proc again ?

hustin1

@noworries can we get a better picture of the "chance" for tranquil and serene runestones? I've always wanted to try them out and I have some saved up but it's really hard to gauge whether they're worth it. I have a couple alts who rely very heavily on their companions to deal damage so keeping companions alive is a huge priority.

(hint: outfit a Powrie with Loyal gear and all R12's and prepare to be awed )

Oh. I don't see Azure -- Defense listed. Is it the same bonus as for Critical Strike?

noworries

bullrath said:

Just wondering dose the teneborus proc frequently now or dose it still take 30sec to proc again ?

That is what removing the Internal Cooldown was referring to, it can now proc about once a second at fastest.

noworries

hustin1 said:

@noworries can we get a better picture of the "chance" for tranquil and serene runestones? I've always wanted to try them out and I have some saved up but it's really hard to gauge whether they're worth it. I have a couple alts who rely very heavily on their companions to deal damage so keeping companions alive is a huge priority.

That said, I'd like to plant an idea in the back of your mind if possible: with PvE enemies doing as much damage as they do, they can often take a companion down in one or two hits. It would be interesting if there was a runestone that granted a companion a chance of a (massive) temporary HP and/or defense boost. Such a runestone should only affect the companion, however, never the player.

The HPs from Empowered were increased quite a bit to try and help with the lifespan of companions. I can look into digging up the chance on Serene and Tranquil tomorrow.

einsieg

Please introduce an offense slot runestone that gives companion influence, so as to not screw over triple offense augment companions.

archangelzorak01

Another excellent question:

What will the price for these 'Ultimate Marks of Potency' be?

beckylunatic

HP healed by Tranquil is still rinky-dinky compared to player HP pools. These were developed for level 60 and not rebalanced since.

Serene is only reasonable compared to companion hitpoint pools because those have never been increased.

Cooldowns/proc chances on both Tranquil and Serene are a mystery.

Will Tymora and Fey Blessing enchants finally put their drops right into player bags? If not, they continue to be sub-par.

Will multi-stat event enchants and content enchants still be (relatively) exclusive? Will they continue to drop at the same ranks as before?

What will Ultimate Mark of Potency cost? Will they be added to loot tables anywhere at all?

How will in-game sources of various ranks of Potency marks and Enchantment Stones be adjusted? Eg. Minor, while relatively inexpensive, is nearly impossible to acquire without going to the WB, which is slightly rankling.

krzrsms

Also. We know you guys plan things numerous months ahead. That means that you released Mod 12 knowing full well what you had coming down the pipes. You released a module that gave players a strong reason to upgrade numerous Companions to Legendary. You did this knowing that a short time after that you'd be releasing content that made part of that investment possibly useless..

Amen. This just feels insulting.

nerological

Devs, you know none of these percentages mean a thing to us, right? Until you all decide to actually use the posted percentages as the real chance and not just some factor in an absurdly convoluted equation, the refinement system will continue to be despised by all players, old and new, no matter what you do to simplify it. As long as I can run the same profession task at 95% chance 10 times in a row and fail each and every time, or try to upgrade an artifact and burn 100 pres wards before finally giving up and coming back the next day to have it upgrade on the first attempt, refinement will continue to be a source of ragequits from this game. One theory around the campfire is that Cryptic refuses to give an accurate chance rating on anything because it helps obfuscate how much of a ripoff the lockbox drop rates are. Another theory is that it's simply to make people burn extra wards so they'll spend money on Zen. Whatever the reason for the nonsense, I don't really care what the last group of devs intended. What I want to know of this group is:

Are you fixing it or is all this talk of making things easier for noobs just talk? Because let's face it, every single new player in this game at some point has asked a vet what's up with the percentages, and every vet has at some point replied, "Yeah, those numbers are complete HAMSTER."

Hamster filter manually applied.