Tomb of Annihilation- Reactions

hammbo1969 · June 2017

Got to be honest, unless they release a new class I'm out.

greywynd · June 2017

Mod removed edited quote to fix code.

Chult always had dinosaurs. They never went extinct on Toril. I do expect Yuan-Ti enemies.

greywynd · June 2017

baeyorn said:
am somewhat excited..

Tomb of Horrors is The penultimaate classic scare-your-chit right out of you module from the early days of AD&D.

In fact, the description for the module states ""or possibly found deep in a jungle".

Granted the original module was tough as hell.. but if the Tomb Of Annihilation is setup 1/8 as hard..
.. there will be wailing in the streets
.. people will be reading their clothes and walking around semi-nay-kid.
.. skeletal dogs and caturday survivors living together.
.. mass forum hysteria.

It will be GLORIOUS!!

-- sips coffee --

looks good to me!

Tomb of Horrors was "how many ways can a GM kill a party with a straight face?"

pitshade · June 2017

It would be an even bigger incentive for VIP and the price of Divine Injury Kits would skyrocket.

aimeesellers · June 2017

baeyorn said:
am somewhat excited..

Tomb of Horrors is The penultimaate classic scare-your-chit right out of you module from the early days of AD&D.

In fact, the description for the module states ""or possibly found deep in a jungle".

Granted the original module was tough as hell.. but if the Tomb Of Annihilation is setup 1/8 as hard..
.. there will be wailing in the streets
.. people will be reading their clothes and walking around semi-nay-kid.
.. skeletal dogs and caturday survivors living together.
.. mass forum hysteria.

It will be GLORIOUS!!

-- sips coffee --

looks good to me!

Tomb of Horrors was one of the best short modules ever written... It was great for an evening of just sitting around the table and laughing together as one party member after another met a horrible end. It is one of the iconic D&D adventures... anyone who is an old school player, either heard about it, played it, or DMed it.

With that said... I am very skeptical of how Cryptic plans to implement anything remotely similar to ToH. Every trap was lethal... not just damaging... lethal. It was not designed as a module to be beaten. Sure... players who brought in uber-geared characters loaded with artifacts and relics could muscle their way past the demi-lich at the end.... but no DM worth the screen they sat behind would have ever let them cheat past the traps. We never had a legit party make it even close to the end. That wasnt what it was about... it was about having fun meeting your demise.

I should note that we always used "canned" or "premade" characters for this one... we NEVER ran our campaign characters in it. We werent stupid.

So... since they are going to do it regardless of what anyone says or thinks... the only way "Tomb of Annihilation" can be even close to "Tomb of Horrors"... is if they do things like this:

- The whole dungeon needs to be treated like a boss lair. You die... thats it, you are out.
- Traps need to be instant death... like the pits in eCC. The so called traps we have now most people ignore, and VIP players are immune to.
- The dungeon needs to be different EVERY TIME YOU RUN IT. The rooms and traps need to be randomly generated and placed when the map is created for the party... Diablo style.

Without features like this being put into place, "Tomb of Annihilation" is going to be just another epic dungeon... and while it may be created in the spirit of the old "Tomb of Horrors"... it will be nothing but a pale shade of it.

dread4moor · June 2017

> @pitshade said:
> It would be an even bigger incentive for VIP and the price of Divine Injury Kits would skyrocket.

This. They should make the Tomb of Horrors (reimagined) traps random and super hard hitting.
Basically, make it a major advantage to bring a rogue.
Multiple mob spawns to encourage CC, a few roosting ranged mobs only reachable by ranged toons, and there you have it:
A dungeon perfect for rainbow parties.

zebular · June 2017

> @hustin1 said:
> Just don't try to shoehorn Mordenkainen into the Realms. Not now, not ever. THAT would indeed be blasphemous.

On phone, so quoting borked. Anywho...

Nah, Mordenkainen has visited the Realms, and I am sure he will continue to do so. Besides, ever hear of "The Wizards Three?" They are short stories by Ed Greenwood telling tales of the meetings by Elminster (Forgotten Realms), Mordenkainen (Greyhawk), and Dalamar (Dragonlance). The Simbul has often snuck in on some of the meetings too, in guise as an inanimate object. Furthermore, even if magical travel between Worlds (Campaigns) couldn't be achieved, all three have numerous Spelljamming ports throughout their respective Crystal Spheres and are all linked, in some fashion in the Phlogiston.

It is not blasphemous, it is canon.

thegreatmikey · June 2017

baeyorn said:
am somewhat excited..

Tomb of Horrors is The penultimaate classic scare-your-chit right out of you module from the early days of AD&D.

In fact, the description for the module states ""or possibly found deep in a jungle".

Granted the original module was tough as hell.. but if the Tomb Of Annihilation is setup 1/8 as hard..
.. there will be wailing in the streets
.. people will be reading their clothes and walking around semi-nay-kid.
.. skeletal dogs and caturday survivors living together.
.. mass forum hysteria.

It will be GLORIOUS!!

-- sips coffee --

looks good to me!

I must disagree with Aimeesellers.

Actually, Tomb of Horrors was a gawdawful mess of a module that had so many, "You're dead because the module said so, no save" moments it was all but unplayable. Literally if you entered a certain room a colourless, odourless gas would make you dead no save. Or the "classic" touching a disguised Sphere of Annhialation where, "Oops, you're dead, no save." It was not a lot of fun to have so many railroaded character deaths. Note that TSR Inc. and the companies that bought them NEVER put out another module like it. They learned their lesson well. Cryptic better have learned that lesson from the Elemental Evil debacle.

If they really wanna do a scary dungeon they could always do Undermountain.

I would also like to point out that I spelled "colourless" and "odourless" correctly so spellcheck can just stop trying to tell me that my Canadian English is wrong. It's American English that's wrong!

aimeesellers · June 2017

thegreatmikey said:

baeyorn said:
am somewhat excited..

Tomb of Horrors is The penultimaate classic scare-your-chit right out of you module from the early days of AD&D.

In fact, the description for the module states ""or possibly found deep in a jungle".

Granted the original module was tough as hell.. but if the Tomb Of Annihilation is setup 1/8 as hard..
.. there will be wailing in the streets
.. people will be reading their clothes and walking around semi-nay-kid.
.. skeletal dogs and caturday survivors living together.
.. mass forum hysteria.

It will be GLORIOUS!!

-- sips coffee --

looks good to me!

I must disagree with Aimeesellers.

Actually, Tomb of Horrors was a gawdawful mess of a module that had so many, "You're dead because the module said so, no save" moments it was all but unplayable. Literally if you entered a certain room a colourless, odourless gas would make you dead no save. Or the "classic" touching a disguised Sphere of Annhialation where, "Oops, you're dead, no save." It was not a lot of fun to have so many railroaded character deaths. Note that TSR Inc. and the companies that bought them NEVER put out another module like it. They learned their lesson well. Cryptic better have learned that lesson from the Elemental Evil debacle.

If they really wanna do a scary dungeon they could always do Undermountain.

I would also like to point out that I spelled "colourless" and "odourless" correctly so spellcheck can just stop trying to tell me that my Canadian English is wrong. It's American English that's wrong!

Thats your opinion, and everyone has their own opinion about it. Some hated it... others loved it. Most I knew that played it loved it... because we played it for what it was... a stand alone dungeon designed to make people think, and laugh. Those that expected to blow through it with a hack and slash approach hated it. It also depended on your DM as well. DM's that just read off the page are boring... doesnt matter what module it is. DM's that put effort into running a game, could breathe life into any dungeon... even one off the shelf. 90% of the adventures we ran were custom built for custom worlds. The nights we ran modules were for taking a break from our campaign characters.

In any case... this post isnt about who loved and who hated ToH. Its about what would be needed to pull off that kind of setting in a computer game. I dont think they can do it.

arcanjo86 · June 2017

so far too soon for new expansion, its a good content but will be another one filled with bugs as always, another grind fest to keep player in game, end game trial/dungeon?? will it reward players for the time spent on the run? or will it rewards crappy r5 rewards to endgame players? basicly endgame player only thing doing is farm mastercraft ingredients/make mastercraft items to sell, make ad profit exchange to zen get some Dragon key from zen store and be ready for new expansion/dungeons.

ghoulz66 · June 2017

New dungeon is pointless when you can't even motivate people to run the latest one. Wtf would this one drop, rank 4s and pearls?

geriatrick#9029 · June 2017

The last thing this game needed was another grindy campaign. This game does one thing well and thats dungeons. They keep forgetting about that.

Very sad to see this, but im sure there will be many people excited to see a dino mount or some such nonsense.

Professions need a total rework and loot/gear/currency for gear needs to start dropping in dungeons again.

mightyeriksson · June 2017

ghoulz66 said:
New dungeon is pointless when you can't even motivate people to run the latest one. Wtf would this one drop, rank 4s and pearls?

https://youtube.com/watch?v=eZRGhfnIzFY

c3rb3r3 · June 2017

Cryptic needs to bring some fresh things to the table. if it's only another mod with another dungeon, another map and another boon grind it's gonna be very disappointing.

earlgreybeard · June 2017

hammbo1969 said:
Got to be honest, unless they release a new class I'm out.

my spider sense is telling me this would be the perfect place to release a shaman class.. maybe not when the mod 1st drops but sometime in that jungle shamans will join the fight against evilarsed badguys everywhere

greywynd · June 2017

I don't see a new class as the class balancing hasn't been announced as completed.

litaaers · June 2017

sky1stname said:
Mount is the best mythic maybe ???

Probably more of an homage... like Lord Marshall William Hollister.

kiraskytower · June 2017

greywynd said:
I don't see a new class as the class balancing hasn't been announced as completed.

If they are going to wait for the classes to be balances, then they will never release a new one. The last pass to receive a balance pass was the Cleric ... and that was in Mod 10. Lets assume they do the Rogue in mod 12. At once class every other module it will be years before they are done.

From a business perspective, new classes are actually huge moneymakers for Cryptic. A new character needs EVERYTHING .... so its another chance to sell wards to make enchants, campaign completions, items like trowels and black ice picks. Established players tend to flock to the new character to try it out, so it also revitalizes the old content in a way as everyone now needs to run it.

So with that in mind ... I'd be very surprised if they waited to finish the class balancing before releasing a new class.

kiraskytower · June 2017

aimeesellers said:

So... since they are going to do it regardless of what anyone says or thinks... the only way "Tomb of Annihilation" can be even close to "Tomb of Horrors"... is if they do things like this:

- The whole dungeon needs to be treated like a boss lair. You die... thats it, you are out.
- Traps need to be instant death... like the pits in eCC. The so called traps we have now most people ignore, and VIP players are immune to.
- The dungeon needs to be different EVERY TIME YOU RUN IT. The rooms and traps need to be randomly generated and placed when the map is created for the party... Diablo style.

... this is why our players are glad I GM our weekly Roleplaying game and not you Aimee! They'd have no chance!

litaaers · June 2017

ghoulz66 said:
New dungeon is pointless when you can't even motivate people to run the latest one. Wtf would this one drop, rank 4s and pearls?

If the only thing someone is concerned about is 'what lootz is drop", then perhaps they are in the wrong place.

silence1x · June 2017

litaaers said:

ghoulz66 said:
New dungeon is pointless when you can't even motivate people to run the latest one. Wtf would this one drop, rank 4s and pearls?
If the only thing someone is concerned about is 'what lootz is drop", then perhaps they are in the wrong place.

Possibly but since this game has turned into "work" for some things/areas, don't we deserve to get "paid" for out effort? No one that I am aware of plays this game to stay average. We must "work" to enhance our characters. The system inside the game has necessitated that we use our "rewards" as stepping stones to better gear/boons/mounts/etc. If the rewards aren't appropriate, folks won't run new content. That may be a sad commentary on us as players but that's the "reality" that we live in in Neverwinter.

majorcharvenak · June 2017

I don't know why folks are still itching for a new class. You all know how it will work:

1) Cryptic announces a new class (FotM) and loads on the Preview.
2) People jump on it and play it with abandon, noting the various bugs, exploits, ridiculously overpowered abilities.
3) The problems are not remedied before it goes live.
4) FotM is played by the masses (as expected) and the chorus and howls for nerfs ensues.
5) Time passes
6) The 'Balance' Hammer smites the offending class into obvilion and the FotM goes out of favor.
7) The Cycle begins anew

Just finish balancing the classes, then introduce a new class after it's been play tested and balanced before it goes live.

Now wrt the Tomb of Annihilation, I really hope they can make the endgame dungeon as 'deadly' as Tomb of Horrors that many of us remember. I believe someone above mentioned the idea of the rooms changing with each iteration. I really like that idea! I'd also like it if they introduce something like milestones coupled with party wipes. If the party makes it to the first milestone (similar to the Bronze level in IG) without wiping, they get a reward. If they press on and wipe before the second, the dungeon ends and so on. That coupled with a changing layout each run would provide a fine challenge imho. The rewards need to be attactive to ZOMG and worth pain the dungeon brings. That's my two cents.

jano#8078 · June 2017

I think Undermountain would be really cool. Every level cleared gives an increasingly better reward with the chance to stay or leave after the level is cleared. Each level would be a complete dungeon so rewards would have to compensate for time invested. Each level should also be completely different than the last.

beckylunatic · June 2017

They've said a new class was originally slated for this module but was returned to the back burner due to lack of resources to get it done in time. It's inevitable though.

I don't particularly understand the people who say that new classes are the only thing that keeps them interested in NW, but I guess if you have no desire to continue building up an existing character and want to start tabula rasa constantly, it would get dull.

mynaam · June 2017

geriatrick#9029 said:

Professions need a total rework and loot/gear/currency for gear needs to start dropping in dungeons again.

Agreed dungeons should no longer be an AD farm location. That is all they are now

thegreatmikey · June 2017

I am pretty sure the next new class is going to be druid. They would fit into Chult well.

elmeister#2511 · June 2017

arcanjo86 said:
so far too soon for new expansion, its a good content but will be another one filled with bugs as always, another grind fest to keep player in game, end game trial/dungeon?? will it reward players for the time spent on the run? or will it rewards crappy r5 rewards to endgame players? basicly endgame player only thing doing is farm mastercraft ingredients/make mastercraft items to sell, make ad profit exchange to zen get some Dragon key from zen store and be ready for new expansion/dungeons.

Endgame players by definition do not have progression left. That said, this game definitely needs more endgame challenge, coupled with comparable rewards. But by definition these rewards can not be progression, but rather a tradeable currency (AD) or boasting rights (record times) because endgame challenge literally means challenge at the end of progression. If progression is gated behind content that is still challenging after said progression is achieved, either the content will be easy afterwards, or it will be downright impossible before said progress.

flambridge · June 2017

My reaction?

I LOVE CHULT!

elmeister#2511 · June 2017

mynaam said:

Agreed dungeons should no longer be an AD farm location. That is all they are now

Dungeons being AD farm locations is the best thing that can be. Running the most difficult dungeon content with a competent group needs to be the best AD farm value/time, otherwise there is no point in dungeons. I did 200 runs of FBI on my tank to complete my relic set. With my cleric it took me a lucky 12 runs (to find the pieces I need). If fbi was not an AD farm location, there would be 0 reason for me to ever run FBI again. And if you want content to stay relevant, you need to nuke droprates way lower, but I doubt anyone wants lower droprates. I can assure you that opening the 200th chest to find a wrong piece of equipment is frustrating. Or 500 chests without a legendary ring. But if we want to keep content relevant because of equipment drops, BiS equipment drop rates need to go down to a level where the average 'set completion' rate is counted in the hundreds, perhaps thousands of runs. For a casual player this is just unbearable.

Actually thinking about it, while SoMI content has got a whole lot of bad rap, the market economy it created is pretty awesome. Every single activity related has a very real sence of progression, whether it's HEs, fishing, or running FBI. The only 'odd man out' is SVA/mSVA which offer very little stand alone rewards, and farming for keys makes farming either for ring/eq drops an unreasonable option, given there is little to no 'free' rewards. While buying 50 lanolin to refine a chest piece sucks, this hefty requirement makes lanolin a farmable and tradeable asset, which is always a great drop, whether from a HE or treasure chest.

I personally enjoy running the most difficult content available. Running it fast, smooth or with challenging setups is what is interesting for me in the game. But if I know that I would be profiting more (and yes, AD is the only way to measure 'profit' in a way that has relevance to everyone regardless of progression) while performing a simpler and thus more repetitive task, this will lessen my enjoyment of the game. There's no limit on AD progression, unlike gear progression. Extra ad always has a value, and thus it always has relevance.

dread4moor · June 2017

> @litaaers said:
> New dungeon is pointless when you can't even motivate people to run the latest one. Wtf would this one drop, rank 4s and pearls?
>
> If the only thing someone is concerned about is 'what lootz is drop", then perhaps they are in the wrong place.

You know, in principal ("how content SHOULD be structured ") you are correct @litaaers .
But what @ghoulz66 said is historically accurate.
The past few Mods have been grind-to-open single dungeons with rare anemic loot.
FBI, SVA and mSP are structured in a way that discourages casual "just for fun" runs.
Cryptic has trained us to view them as work, not fun.

I hope Mod12 will need different.
But there if Mod 12 will has the same grind-open-poor-reward... can we really blame anyone for being skeptical?

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