Not too sure about that. You'd probably be better off just grinding for some AD and buy RP. You'd be saving yourself a lot of time.
up until now you have been correct. with this change though the price of RP on the AH will go up a lot. And so running the weekly DR quest will get you 4500 AD, and hopefully, some BoA RP for your artifacts. Every little bit helps, unless it is BoC and you can't use it because you are maxed
You will be wasting a lot of time grinding DR for RP that equals 1 stack of rank 5s. Grind some dungeons, maybe will a blue insignia, get seals, loot, salvage, spend seals for more salvage. Buy your RP in a quarter of the time. Even if rank 5s stabilize at 20k or w/e it'll still be a better option vs unrewarding grinding in the DR. Rank 5s feed all artifact types to feed the piece you're working on.
You don't get it do you. I want to run the DR weekly quest because it gives me items for my stronghold, 4500 AD, and hopefully, 10-15k artifact RP that i can use to help upgrade an alt. Yes perhaps the new price of r5s will stabilize at a price where it is still smarter to grind AD and buy it, but there is no reason why the RP from DR should not also be useful for alts. Because right now it is not
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It's pretty well established that the demand for bots comes from excessive grind. The harder the grind, the bigger the demand for bots.
Stripping out rewards has next to no effect on bots, that's also well established. They can get around it. It affects players though by increasing the grind even more. That's when they either turn to the cash shop or bots/third party sites.
As I'm sure Cryptic knows all this, these changes come across as transparent and lazy. They're there to drive up the AD/Zen market and nothing more.
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lirithielMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,482Arc User
Not too sure about that. You'd probably be better off just grinding for some AD and buy RP. You'd be saving yourself a lot of time.
up until now you have been correct. with this change though the price of RP on the AH will go up a lot. And so running the weekly DR quest will get you 4500 AD, and hopefully, some BoA RP for your artifacts. Every little bit helps, unless it is BoC and you can't use it because you are maxed
You will be wasting a lot of time grinding DR for RP that equals 1 stack of rank 5s. Grind some dungeons, maybe will a blue insignia, get seals, loot, salvage, spend seals for more salvage. Buy your RP in a quarter of the time. Even if rank 5s stabilize at 20k or w/e it'll still be a better option vs unrewarding grinding in the DR. Rank 5s feed all artifact types to feed the piece you're working on.
You don't get it do you. I want to run the DR weekly quest because it gives me items for my stronghold, 4500 AD, and hopefully, 10-15k artifact RP that i can use to help upgrade an alt. Yes perhaps the new price of r5s will stabilize at a price where it is still smarter to grind AD and buy it, but there is no reason why the RP from DR should not also be useful for alts. Because right now it is not
I'm with @scathias on this. I do DR lair every single day on 4 characters for the RP. It might not seem much but you have no idea how much RP I have built up doing this. I don't buy RP off AH (my moto: why buy when you can acquire it for free) so my main sources of RP comes from lairs and Leadership coffers, which I only open during 2x event.
I am sitting with plenty of useless character-bound RP on a couple of near maxxed-out toons that could actually be used by alts if it was made BoA. In fact I cannot believe the mess Cryptic has made with all these sources giving different versions of bound RP. Take Sharandar for example: Run the dailies, you get character-bound Thaum Stones. Run the weekly, you get character-bound Thaum Stones. But run Tower of Celadaine and you get unbound Thaum Stones. Pretty sure there is BoA Thaum Stones rewarded somewhere too. One example from just one zone.
Then we have invoking rewards from coffers and bags. The bags which can provide discount coupons reward character-bound RP while the coffers reward BoA RP. Two versions from the same source. Seriously? WTF Cryptic. How about you choose one and stick to it. And the simple solution is Bind to Account. How does this hurt players but aid bots? Why the hesitation to switch to Bind on Account?
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Based on community feedback - believe me, there has been a lot - we're making changes to skill nodes to combat botting. I know these changes may cause some players to be upset, but as we continue to improve the quality of life in Neverwinter, changes like these need to be done.
Sounds good. My only quam is that these and more things need to be Bound to Account when acquired. Actually, I strongly feel that almost everything in game that is BoP should be BtA on pickup. All Bound refinement items need to be changed to BtA and these insignias should be as well. Of course, there's exceptions... yet things like this and most all equipment in game should be BtA until equipped. This change would be the perfect time to usher in an overhaul of the Bind mechanic to make it more player friendly and in-line with what the Community has been asking for, for quite some time now.
Well stated! thanks for the helping hand to the community!
Maybe u can change something with armor enchantments (hide - show visuals) or something like on mounts. we can see enchantment visuals during battle. u gave us dyes but almost everyone has tu dye black coz usualy using soulforged and effect is black. Negation enchantment when is slotted i cant see even details of my cloth or colors.
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lirithielMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,482Arc User
So in other news.. just like AD removal, this will manage to net 3rd party site more money.. but will take players 5-6 times longer to increase stuff..
woot.
I swear.
You guys love bots, but hate players.
Why not make a system that requires about 50% less rp overall on everything, then move ALL rp to bta.
This would be a better solution for most of us.
They had to do it, because the AD that should've stayed for players, was goin at the bots and they were selling it as goldsellers, now they are takin it away and there will be a gap , now they have somehow to fix this gap somehow, how they can do it?
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There's a drop in supply now because people are freaking out so demand is through the roof and supply is lower because bots haven't adjusted yet. Bots will adjust, raise their prices a bit and keep on going about their business. This won't affect them at all because bots always find a way around whatever PWE does because PWE makes one or two attempts to fight bots a year and players always get the shaft.
If they really wanted to fight bots they'd just put an item in the Bazaar that's worth the same amount of RP as a stack of rank 5s for 6k. They can't win against bots by changing the supply of items because bots will always win if it's a matter of supply. They need to offer a superior item for a price (in AD) players are willing to pay.
Based on community feedback - believe me, there has been a lot - we're making changes to skill nodes to combat botting. I know these changes may cause some players to be upset, but as we continue to improve the quality of life in Neverwinter, changes like these need to be done.
Sounds good. My only quam is that these and more things need to be Bound to Account when acquired. Actually, I strongly feel that almost everything in game that is BoP should be BtA on pickup. All Bound refinement items need to be changed to BtA and these insignias should be as well. Of course, there's exceptions... yet things like this and most all equipment in game should be BtA until equipped. This change would be the perfect time to usher in an overhaul of the Bind mechanic to make it more player friendly and in-line with what the Community has been asking for, for quite some time now.
I agree completely! I and many many long term players want much more BtA. I would be happy to see 90% of all RP (from play earned to invocation and leadership) BtA. Increase the drop rates and make 90% of it BtA, this would kill boting and reward people spending time playing.
Right now is the perfect time for an overhaul.
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...or you can just kill off the bots in one foul swoop by making RP from skill nodes BoA. The solutions are right in front of your eyes but you keep looking right through them and never seem to learn from your countless mistakes.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: the only items that should be character bound are those that you get as quest rewards. Everything else should be made account-bound, with the exception of dungeon drops, which should be Bind on Equip.
That's not the solution.
The true solution should be for the company to find the botters and kick their butts off the system. BAN by IP address, not user name. Or do a better job of closing code so that it cannot be exploited by people who are using bots. I know that you cannot run around any place and not get into a fight when looking for skill nodes so how are the people using bots getting around it?
They can't win against bots by changing the supply of items because bots will always win if it's a matter of supply.
That's actually the only way to win against bots: by giving them nothing worth farming. The problem with this current plan is that it hurts legit players as well, where if they had simply made every bit of RP in this game BtA, it would not hurt the players, only the 3rd party sellers. Sometimes players have to get hurt to prevent botting, but in this case it's totally unnecessary. Much better to restore the nerfed drop rates on the DHE's and make all RP BtA, effectively eliminating the entire RP market. They will not get rich on profession mats, I think. Especially with over 90% of it being useless.
From now on every bot will run about with Fey blessings and they will change their entire army on the hour every hour. It'll slow them down quite a bit, especially with the limited active duration per day on those enchantments. But once they increased their army (in about 2-3 weeks or so) it'll be like nothing changed. For them at least. We'll still be hurting.
BtA RP will never allow players to refine items at a reasonable rate. If it ever does PWE will backpedal to slow player progression.
The RP market is the only thing allows players to progress at a reasonable rate anyways.
Lol....the price of upgrading gear is about to rise to that of xbox.
Well people are saying that they have more AD to spend now due to the SH vouchers from the professions. Time to cut it down again. Thou shallt not hoard AD!
Thanks for making me laugh. This is just another trick for the company to get more money from the players. Free to play is becoming a misnomer with this game. Pretty soon it will only be those people who can afford to pour money into the games.
Agreed on the overhaul. But you gotta do it 100% or not at all. 10% unbound RP is still too much money to 3rd party sellers to give it up.
Your are probably right. I was thinking the 10% would be unbound RP from t1 and up content and it would give players something to sell on the AH. I definitely get your point. All or nothing.
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BtA RP will never allow players to refine items at a reasonable rate. If it ever does PWE will backpedal to slow player progression.
The RP market is the only thing allows players to progress at a reasonable rate anyways.
Exactly. You can spend every waking hour from now till the game closes its doors and a player would not be able to farm enough BtA RP for one mythic or legendary equip. Even if the player uses alts and diverts all resources to one toon. Every player currently in possession of a mythic or legendary equip acquired it with RP from the market.
Sure cryptic can lower the refinement bar to address the amount of RP needed. But another problem for me with BtA RP is I want the flexibility to do what I want with the RP. If I want a perfect vorp in an epic weapon, I should be able to sell the RP I don't need to fund the perf vorp. My options for the RP should not be only to refine.
I have a negative feeling of this change. Yes, bots are not cool but I hate bots who generate a lot of ADs more than who generate a lot of enchants. Those BoE enchants have positive impact of economy in this game.
If you want to remove enchants from skill nodes. I think we need more bound to equipment drops from dungeons and demongorgon. Why? To stimulate the AH AD flows. Another point is that those green insignia and rank 5s will bring more bag space crisis. Well, my 2 cents.
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
My reactions to the announcement:
More frequent insignia drops is good (great!), but please, please, please consider making insignia drops from critters and nodes bound to account instead of character. I have one character with phenomenal luck finding them who is rocking 5 bonuses and I have characters still equipped with nothing more than the two gimmes from introducing the system. Being able to move insignia around your account as needed would be a huge help to players. This would be an alt-friendly move, which having them character-bound was not, and making NW more alt-friendly is one of Cryptic's stated goals for 2016 and beyond.
Likewise, character-bound RP items are really not helpful to a maxed-out main, or artifact-specific refining stones to a character not using that type of artifact. Making all bound RP rewards bound to account would ease the sting of removing an RP source from legit players, and also make the game a lot more alt-friendly.
Suggestions specific to skill nodes. If you're removing most of the incentive to bot them (profession materials really aren't worth much, honestly, and it's not like they'll become a hot commodity now), could you please consider restoring nodes that have been patched out of the game? Not having access to any skill nodes in a bunch of high-level content has been exceedingly unhelpful in attempting to fill insignia slots.
Also, perhaps it is time to revisit the account flag that was put in place as an anti-farming mechanic when you loot too many nodes in too short of a time and get trash instead of regular node contents. If there's nothing much of value in the nodes to goldsellers, this mechanic now only punishes players.
I would also suggest that in general, more access to higher value RP items as quest rewards, and as loot from dungeons, skirmishes, and HEs, would really ease the sting. And overflow experience rewards, good grief. For the PvP enthusiasts, add BoA RP items that can be purchased with PvP currency.
Dragon hoard enchant drops should be weighted substantially away from white pearls, which are a sick joke when you compare them to the millions of RPs actually needed to level items up. In my personal experience, for my playstyle, I've found that hoard enchants will actually work steadily over an extended period of time.
The ability to purchase some kind of artifact equipment refinement item with Seals of the Adventurer would likely be a welcome addition. Or just peridots. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Annnnnd the Foundry. Foundry's inability to support NW's refinement-for-life meta has been a huge factor in driving players away from it. Foundry quests that are qualified for daily should be integrated into a system allowing players to earn RP from playing the Foundry. This doesn't even have to entail creating a new currency and store, as quests could simply award a quantity of Seals of the Adventurer (coupled with above suggestion). If you want to get fancy, the quantity of seals could scale to length of time taken in the quest, so that one hour-long quest is equally rewarding to four 15-minute ones. Potential repercussions are no worse than rewarding players for afk leeching in a skirmish or PvP, which Cryptic's current actions have enabled. Alternatively, add rewards only to featured quests, but pair this with a commitment to feature more.
The RP from the sharandar weekly quest needs to become BoA as well
I use the character-bound thaumaturgic stones on items like weapon enchants, which I stick in the shared bank and move from character to character to dump the stones in. I know some people will only use these on artifact equipment simply because it's valid (unlike enchants), but... eh, it works. Account-bound would be more convenient, but this is a lot easier to work around than Dread Ring's bound drops.
Based on community feedback, and in our continued effort to take action against botting, we are removing refinement item drops from skill nodes.
Because these items are important to players, we did not want to remove them outright. Instead, they will be more available through playing content. Most critters in the world will now have an increased chance to drop Enchantments and Runestones.
For those looking to utilize skill nodes for something beyond professions, we are increasing how often they drop Insignias.
If it is an even trade, increased open-world drop rate for no node availability, what is the source of the vitriol?
thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
edited April 2016
This changes nothing. Players (let alone third party sites) bot leadership. Leadership grants Resonance Stones, Thaumaturgic Stones and Power/Stability/Union Stones, which pretty much cover all the RP bases.
Idea to fight bots are nice, but instead of removing refinement items from skill nodes you should make them bound to account. It will fix most issues.
I have another idea, but I do not think Cryptic will make it live: Create new (cheaper) ZEN and Woundorous Bazar Items with RP for Artifacts, Enchantments and Artifact Equipment. How should it work? Check what is the price for stack of R4 Enchants, Peridots, etc on AH (I'm sure CW have data how prices were changed over last months), make items with similar RP value and similar AD/ZEN cost. Or even make stack of peridots, enchants, etc available in Wondorous Bazar, but with the price similar to what we gave on AH nowdays. Players will stop buying from bots, CW will make some extra money and people will be happy tahat they can finally progress with their items and help CW, not bots Most ZEN and Wondorous Bazar prices are way too high to consider refining items with items bought there.
They can't win against bots by changing the supply of items because bots will always win if it's a matter of supply.
That's actually the only way to win against bots: by giving them nothing worth farming. The problem with this current plan is that it hurts legit players as well, where if they had simply made every bit of RP in this game BtA, it would not hurt the players, only the 3rd party sellers. Sometimes players have to get hurt to prevent botting, but in this case it's totally unnecessary. Much better to restore the nerfed drop rates on the DHE's and make all RP BtA, effectively eliminating the entire RP market. They will not get rich on profession mats, I think. Especially with over 90% of it being useless.
From now on every bot will run about with Fey blessings and they will change their entire army on the hour every hour. It'll slow them down quite a bit, especially with the limited active duration per day on those enchantments. But once they increased their army (in about 2-3 weeks or so) it'll be like nothing changed. For them at least. We'll still be hurting.
BtA RP will never allow players to refine items at a reasonable rate. If it ever does PWE will backpedal to slow player progression.
The RP market is the only thing allows players to progress at a reasonable rate anyways.
Perhaps. But if so, we know that's what the game wants. It's the difference between honest low drop rates and "nerfs because bots". To me, that's a very big difference. Besides, every decent publisher should be in control of player's progression speed. Not 3rd party sellers.
Bwahahahaha.
Are you serious? If they were really ever going to be honest about this they could've outright said "RP from bots is too cheap and players are refining items to easily". Given that they haven't nothing about this nerf is going to make Cryptic more honest about anything. Even if they do deal with their bot problem they'll just find more scapegoats to avoid actually telling players why they're nerfing something.
And no, most publishers are not in complete control of player progression. That's why they have AHs to give players some control over their progression.
silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
Just make leadership bta.. I play for my own toons anyways.
if they remove leadership stones, Im out too.
I already have dragon hoards, wanderer mounts and leadership and I never have enough rp.. let alone the 10-15 stones i get a day from playing (yes pathetic rewards)
if they removed leadership and didnt over significant rewards to replace it.. then screw them. I wont play a game that already takes years to progress.. turn into a decade.. too stupid to even comment on really.
Comments
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Stripping out rewards has next to no effect on bots, that's also well established. They can get around it. It affects players though by increasing the grind even more. That's when they either turn to the cash shop or bots/third party sites.
As I'm sure Cryptic knows all this, these changes come across as transparent and lazy. They're there to drive up the AD/Zen market and nothing more.
I am sitting with plenty of useless character-bound RP on a couple of near maxxed-out toons that could actually be used by alts if it was made BoA. In fact I cannot believe the mess Cryptic has made with all these sources giving different versions of bound RP. Take Sharandar for example: Run the dailies, you get character-bound Thaum Stones. Run the weekly, you get character-bound Thaum Stones. But run Tower of Celadaine and you get unbound Thaum Stones. Pretty sure there is BoA Thaum Stones rewarded somewhere too. One example from just one zone.
Then we have invoking rewards from coffers and bags. The bags which can provide discount coupons reward character-bound RP while the coffers reward BoA RP. Two versions from the same source. Seriously? WTF Cryptic. How about you choose one and stick to it. And the simple solution is Bind to Account. How does this hurt players but aid bots? Why the hesitation to switch to Bind on Account?
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
If they really wanted to fight bots they'd just put an item in the Bazaar that's worth the same amount of RP as a stack of rank 5s for 6k. They can't win against bots by changing the supply of items because bots will always win if it's a matter of supply. They need to offer a superior item for a price (in AD) players are willing to pay.
Right now is the perfect time for an overhaul.
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Bastiel Atheanes DC
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The true solution should be for the company to find the botters and kick their butts off the system. BAN by IP address, not user name. Or do a better job of closing code so that it cannot be exploited by people who are using bots. I know that you cannot run around any place and not get into a fight when looking for skill nodes so how are the people using bots getting around it?
The RP market is the only thing allows players to progress at a reasonable rate anyways.
We are searching for slave labor, will pay with food from our farm!
Traxus Atheanes GF
Bastiel Atheanes DC
Ellara Atheanes CW
Keira Atheanes TR
Sarasin Atheanes SW
Jerkface McGee HR
-MANTARA- OP
Sure cryptic can lower the refinement bar to address the amount of RP needed. But another problem for me with BtA RP is I want the flexibility to do what I want with the RP. If I want a perfect vorp in an epic weapon, I should be able to sell the RP I don't need to fund the perf vorp. My options for the RP should not be only to refine.
If you want to remove enchants from skill nodes. I think we need more bound to equipment drops from dungeons and demongorgon. Why? To stimulate the AH AD flows. Another point is that those green insignia and rank 5s will bring more bag space crisis. Well, my 2 cents.
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More frequent insignia drops is good (great!), but please, please, please consider making insignia drops from critters and nodes bound to account instead of character. I have one character with phenomenal luck finding them who is rocking 5 bonuses and I have characters still equipped with nothing more than the two gimmes from introducing the system. Being able to move insignia around your account as needed would be a huge help to players. This would be an alt-friendly move, which having them character-bound was not, and making NW more alt-friendly is one of Cryptic's stated goals for 2016 and beyond.
Likewise, character-bound RP items are really not helpful to a maxed-out main, or artifact-specific refining stones to a character not using that type of artifact. Making all bound RP rewards bound to account would ease the sting of removing an RP source from legit players, and also make the game a lot more alt-friendly.
Suggestions specific to skill nodes. If you're removing most of the incentive to bot them (profession materials really aren't worth much, honestly, and it's not like they'll become a hot commodity now), could you please consider restoring nodes that have been patched out of the game? Not having access to any skill nodes in a bunch of high-level content has been exceedingly unhelpful in attempting to fill insignia slots.
Also, perhaps it is time to revisit the account flag that was put in place as an anti-farming mechanic when you loot too many nodes in too short of a time and get trash instead of regular node contents. If there's nothing much of value in the nodes to goldsellers, this mechanic now only punishes players.
I would also suggest that in general, more access to higher value RP items as quest rewards, and as loot from dungeons, skirmishes, and HEs, would really ease the sting. And overflow experience rewards, good grief. For the PvP enthusiasts, add BoA RP items that can be purchased with PvP currency.
Dragon hoard enchant drops should be weighted substantially away from white pearls, which are a sick joke when you compare them to the millions of RPs actually needed to level items up. In my personal experience, for my playstyle, I've found that hoard enchants will actually work steadily over an extended period of time.
The ability to purchase some kind of artifact equipment refinement item with Seals of the Adventurer would likely be a welcome addition. Or just peridots. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Annnnnd the Foundry. Foundry's inability to support NW's refinement-for-life meta has been a huge factor in driving players away from it. Foundry quests that are qualified for daily should be integrated into a system allowing players to earn RP from playing the Foundry. This doesn't even have to entail creating a new currency and store, as quests could simply award a quantity of Seals of the Adventurer (coupled with above suggestion). If you want to get fancy, the quantity of seals could scale to length of time taken in the quest, so that one hour-long quest is equally rewarding to four 15-minute ones. Potential repercussions are no worse than rewarding players for afk leeching in a skirmish or PvP, which Cryptic's current actions have enabled. Alternatively, add rewards only to featured quests, but pair this with a commitment to feature more. I use the character-bound thaumaturgic stones on items like weapon enchants, which I stick in the shared bank and move from character to character to dump the stones in. I know some people will only use these on artifact equipment simply because it's valid (unlike enchants), but... eh, it works. Account-bound would be more convenient, but this is a lot easier to work around than Dread Ring's bound drops.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
I have another idea, but I do not think Cryptic will make it live:
Create new (cheaper) ZEN and Woundorous Bazar Items with RP for Artifacts, Enchantments and Artifact Equipment. How should it work? Check what is the price for stack of R4 Enchants, Peridots, etc on AH (I'm sure CW have data how prices were changed over last months), make items with similar RP value and similar AD/ZEN cost. Or even make stack of peridots, enchants, etc available in Wondorous Bazar, but with the price similar to what we gave on AH nowdays. Players will stop buying from bots, CW will make some extra money and people will be happy tahat they can finally progress with their items and help CW, not bots
Most ZEN and Wondorous Bazar prices are way too high to consider refining items with items bought there.
Are you serious? If they were really ever going to be honest about this they could've outright said "RP from bots is too cheap and players are refining items to easily". Given that they haven't nothing about this nerf is going to make Cryptic more honest about anything. Even if they do deal with their bot problem they'll just find more scapegoats to avoid actually telling players why they're nerfing something.
And no, most publishers are not in complete control of player progression. That's why they have AHs to give players some control over their progression.
if they remove leadership stones, Im out too.
I already have dragon hoards, wanderer mounts and leadership and I never have enough rp.. let alone the 10-15 stones i get a day from playing (yes pathetic rewards)
if they removed leadership and didnt over significant rewards to replace it.. then screw them. I wont play a game that already takes years to progress.. turn into a decade.. too stupid to even comment on really.