the other part of my complaint is people complaining about the GWF as the ultimate dps machine. they are quite simply wrong. I have one of the highest output GWFs in the game. I know that for a fact. And yet i have been equaled and beat by certain SW builds easily. I have been beaten by certain TR builds. not easily, its a DPS run, but they have beat me. I have been beat by certain CW builds. HRs are the only DPS class that hasn't beaten me but I have one in my guild that gets within 10m points. I will say that a GWF is the most forgiving DPS build and i think thats why so many people complain. A poorly played GWF will always out DPS any other poorly played class. Since there are so many poor to average players in neverwinter its inevitable they are going to complain about a GWF doing so much damage. On the top end though, there really isn't much difference.
a good build, well played is viable. no matter the class. A quote from another GWF on another forum... It is not just me.
Ok, if you are so sure your GWF's is one of the highest dps GWF's, why not take it along with me and some of the GWF's I know. Either I learn something, or you do. It achieves more then just arguing idly on the forums.
balanced games doesnt allow people to get 100% critical hit its called critical hit cos its not basic hit
I agree 100% Crit chance should have a hard cap. Such as 40% at best. Not even 1% more than that. 100% crit chance, or 70-80-90%, is insane.
I like the idea. Problem is, with current curves, you can't put stats elsewhere. Armorpen? useless over 60%. Recovery? Meh, most classes can reduce their cooldowns some way, Daily overusage are a problem as it stands now. I'd make daily cooldown to 60 sec, you could not use it more often, maybe some buff to all dailies.
40% crit cap That would mean a lot of wasted crit stat or very high power builds. And only radiant viable in offense slots.
Only way, if crit stat would give 1% after every 600 or 800 stat points. making it a harder sacrifice to choose between power and crit. - But that would make main attributes that give you crit chance to be 5 times more useful every other main attribute. Still, it would be the most healthy solution. (Then again - cw eye of the storm would need rework, TR should get a bonus of 10-20% (not 100%) crit chance while in stealth etc.)
My story is truly a grand tale! Of course, any story about me is going to be grand simply by virtue of the main character.
the other part of my complaint is people complaining about the GWF as the ultimate dps machine. they are quite simply wrong. I have one of the highest output GWFs in the game. I know that for a fact. And yet i have been equaled and beat by certain SW builds easily. I have been beaten by certain TR builds. not easily, its a DPS run, but they have beat me. I have been beat by certain CW builds. HRs are the only DPS class that hasn't beaten me but I have one in my guild that gets within 10m points. I will say that a GWF is the most forgiving DPS build and i think thats why so many people complain. A poorly played GWF will always out DPS any other poorly played class. Since there are so many poor to average players in neverwinter its inevitable they are going to complain about a GWF doing so much damage. On the top end though, there really isn't much difference.
a good build, well played is viable. no matter the class. A quote from another GWF on another forum... It is not just me.
Ok, if you are so sure your GWF's is one of the highest dps GWF's, why not take it along with me and some of the GWF's I know. Either I learn something, or you do. It achieves more then just arguing idly on the forums.
That is not my quote, I am not maxed out. But, you need to quit pretending GWF is the only DPS class, and stubbornly not using the Optimal build.
....I helped Erza write that build. I do more then twice her damage with less gear. Even with a fully specced dps CW, you still do 2/3rds the damage of a GWF who has decent gear and knows what they doing. Normally, my CW is specced for damage (I run an SS thaum build), occasionally (like for dungeon speedruns) I spec for support.
Now, you can keep calling my build suboptimal on the forums without having seen it, or we can get in game and you can learn otherwise.
I vote "YES" because actualy, everybody need do some dps take this set, Strength and dexterity are not stat for CW, SW and they take Lostmauth because Black Ice set, for exemple, give a ridiculous dps.
I think the reason to adjust the lol-set should be clear to Cryptic after analyzing their key/vip sales after the release of the baby-owlbear.
Normally many dps would jump for a companion that has the potential to increase their damage - but because the lol-set is too good most will stay away from the new companion. The same will probably happen for new inferior artifact sets in future mods - I doubt Cryptic will introduce a set, that is better.
I voted for an adjustment of the lol-set, because I like change and the lol-set does not only fix the artifact set for every dps but it also fixes the base-build to a high crit build for almost every dps.
I like the idea. Problem is, with current curves, you can't put stats elsewhere. Armorpen? useless over 60%. Recovery? Meh, most classes can reduce their cooldowns some way, Daily overusage are a problem as it stands now. I'd make daily cooldown to 60 sec, you could not use it more often, maybe some buff to all dailies.
40% crit cap That would mean a lot of wasted crit stat or very high power builds. And only radiant viable in offense slots.
Only way, if crit stat would give 1% after every 600 or 800 stat points. making it a harder sacrifice to choose between power and crit. - But that would make main attributes that give you crit chance to be 5 times more useful every other main attribute. Still, it would be the most healthy solution. (Then again - cw eye of the storm would need rework, TR should get a bonus of 10-20% (not 100%) crit chance while in stealth etc.) power cap 100% armpen 20% add resistances to stats and make classes do elemental damages add boosts to those elemental damages to stats make it let say cw lighting damage +500/ +4%lighting damage etc same for all classes gwfs would go with phys/fire/poison not 100% but like 60%phys 40%elemental and those stat boosts could boost that elemental dmg mobs could have lower resistance values for elementals then adjust alll feats but i said it that cos some people wants to keep the elol set as it is and they dont want any new artifact sets cos they already got elol-set. there is very many different solutions to go balancing that sky is the limit and imagination.
Create content that makes other set bonuses viable i.e. make it worth while for adds to have to be "controlled" not just blasted into nothingness by a CW. Nerf OP bubble and change the AC necks maybe to a straight -% Dmg taken (also bringing GF's more into line with OP).
Also the real problem as I understand it is the multiplier off of GWF's extremely high base dmg not all dd's. In other words the problem really seems to be 1 classes DMG, the underpowered/usefulness of the other sets, and the lack of content that would make certain set bonuses attractive. I don't know if weapon speed/delay is a hidden statistic but usually high DMG 2 handed weapons hit harder but attacked slower where a Dual Wielding DD didn't hit as hard but hit more frequently. Somehow taking into account weapon delay I think would help balance dmg between classes and even paragon paths.
players boosts their power to 180% with buffs. critical 100% critsev 150% armpen 60% +elosets +broken enchants and what else ? you ask harder contents ? when this set alone adds+30%dmg
the other part of my complaint is people complaining about the GWF as the ultimate dps machine. they are quite simply wrong. I have one of the highest output GWFs in the game. I know that for a fact. And yet i have been equaled and beat by certain SW builds easily. I have been beaten by certain TR builds. not easily, its a DPS run, but they have beat me. I have been beat by certain CW builds. HRs are the only DPS class that hasn't beaten me but I have one in my guild that gets within 10m points. I will say that a GWF is the most forgiving DPS build and i think thats why so many people complain. A poorly played GWF will always out DPS any other poorly played class. Since there are so many poor to average players in neverwinter its inevitable they are going to complain about a GWF doing so much damage. On the top end though, there really isn't much difference.
a good build, well played is viable. no matter the class. A quote from another GWF on another forum... It is not just me.
you are right, there is one dungeon a TR can out dps a GWF --> elol ( I was told so by a very good PVE TR)
you are right there are certain warlock builds that equalize a GWF but you have to take in account that f.e. the damantion-puppet is a bug dealing up to 80% damage from overall damage, tyrannical threat dealing >50% for fury builds is --> bugged (damage ping-pong), and fury builds using morderous flames create big numbers like 500k up to 11 mio k with a -->single<-- hit, spawning sometimes a bugged puppet on top wich hits 5x for 400k or more
CW´s ? can´t say what is broken about that class, but sure there are things to tell
GWF damage is WAI, as far as I could see, and the biggest problem lots of player claim leveling these classes is born out of these disbalances from the very start did you ever compared leveling a warlock vs. a GWF? I did and it´s more than redicules Looking at the endcontent classes get more or less build arround bugs and broken stuff like lolset, multiproccing bondings, bugged feat, bugged powers, broken mechanics
from my side that´s ok, I did never want any nerf to any class, I want a fix to broken stuff, like this pll wants to evaluate, a fix to broken feat, powers etc and if in the end we will find a GWF who deals 3x more damage than a fixed class, we can adjust that
even being focussed on PVP atm I do not see GWF being the worst things from all classes, not at all, no there are lot´s of other vicious classes lurking in the dark
Since >60% of the PVE community wants to keep their bugs and balance the classes arround them, let it be. In the end this is probably more realistic as shown so many times and it seems more or less a self-confession by this company knowing there will be no lasting fix or balance, doing minor fixes and small adjustements all day, and having big fear to touch some bigger topics to avoid the left player to quit sad, in the end the bug is the game
one more, we do not need to point at GWF damage, the devs allready had that on their list for long,but things take time as we know Do I think it will change anything? no
Adding a quick edit here so that people realize I am not being insulting by that reply. I simply mean that if people were actually aware of the full implications of leaving it as it is -- and I mean really understanding what all that meant -- that they would not be voting no. I can only imagine that people voting 'no' don't truly realize anything being a basic and personal understanding of how it relates to themselves in some isolated and particular situation.
the age of the voters what is it ? 7y---->70y ? so what should be done..cryptic should not even ask anyone what opinion they have and those players should be informed correctly what is going on with the set and why it is broke. and what happens if they dont fix it ? eloset is the only artifact set for the dps classes forever. or they make next set for 100k dmg/sec when in battle, for the area of 50feet.and other what roots enemies in the area of 50feet for 3seconds every 5seconds making 600% weapon damage/second when rooted+ has a 50% chance to steal life from those damages it does when rooted.
the other part of my complaint is people complaining about the GWF as the ultimate dps machine.
they are quite simply wrong. I have one of the highest output GWFs in the game. I know that for a fact. And yet i have been equaled and beat by certain SW builds easily. I have been beaten by certain TR builds. not easily, its a DPS run, but they have beat me. I have been beat by certain CW builds. HRs are the only DPS class that hasn't beaten me but I have one in my guild that gets within 10m points.
I will say that a GWF is the most forgiving DPS build and i think thats why so many people complain. A poorly played GWF will always out DPS any other poorly played class. Since there are so many poor to average players in neverwinter its inevitable they are going to complain about a GWF doing so much damage. On the top end though, there really isn't much difference.
a good build, well played is viable. no matter the class. A quote from another GWF on another forum... It is not just me.
Ok, if you are so sure your GWF's is one of the highest dps GWF's, why not take it along with me and some of the GWF's I know. Either I learn something, or you do. It achieves more then just arguing idly on the forums.
That is not my quote, I am not maxed out. But, you need to quit pretending GWF is the only DPS class, and stubbornly not using the Optimal build.
....I helped Erza write that build. I do more then twice her damage with less gear. Even with a fully specced dps CW, you still do 2/3rds the damage of a GWF who has decent gear and knows what they doing. Normally, my CW is specced for damage (I run an SS thaum build), occasionally (like for dungeon speedruns) I spec for support.
Now, you can keep calling my build suboptimal on the forums without having seen it, or we can get in game and you can learn otherwise.
*cough cough* not more than twice. And that'll change when I upgrade my bondings. Considering my crit in ACT has been around 62% recently, when that becomes 90% with full bondings, and r11 azures on companions, that'll make big difference :P
It also doesn't help that I suck at dodging the beam thingies in eDemo, which is all we've been running lately
cryptic, you did yourself no favour with this poll
Lol, because @nuudlz totally works for Cryptic/PWE.
No ragrets, not one letter.
you are right but..... that´s what they stated sunday 17., so nuudl just followed that statement (knowing: " So I might actually start a poll" may take some mods...
A. If we do nerf the Lostmauth set, we need to have the Community's backing for this. So I might actually start a poll on the forums, so that if it does come to a point where we do nerf it, I can just point them to that poll, and say "This is what the community wanted".
0
beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
cryptic, you did yourself no favour with this poll
Lol, because @nuudlz totally works for Cryptic/PWE.
No ragrets, not one letter.
you are right but..... that´s what they stated sunday 17., so nuudl just followed that statement (knowing: " So I might actually start a poll" may take some mods...
A. If we do nerf the Lostmauth set, we need to have the Community's backing for this. So I might actually start a poll on the forums, so that if it does come to a point where we do nerf it, I can just point them to that poll, and say "This is what the community wanted".
Yeah....
And if @strumslinger had written the poll instead of getting beaten to it by a player who decided to jump all over the idea that he might make one, it might have been phrased less contentiously, or provided more options, or been made at a time when the devs were ready to provide some concrete figures as to how they might adjust it or how they envision it working, and it might have talked about balancing instead of nerfing. A lot of things might have been different.
Still think this set needs to be reigned in. I have no issues w/ keeping it a good set for most dps builds- maybe allowing the black ice and imperial sets to shine in more odd-ball dps builds that aren't heavily crit based. Variety would be nice. Obv, gear and class balance should go hand-in-hand, and not be treated as mutually exclusive. But after reading that Q&A transcript, I gotta say that I'm not feeling too hopeful atm.
I'll say it again. Slap on a cap to it. GWFs can't go beyond the cap and totally abuse the hell out of it, other classes can still be competitive.
Well technically the Cap is supposed to be "Do an Additional Hit for Weapon Damage on a Critical Hit" Which would make each hit do a Flat 2-4k damage depending on the weapon and additional damage will scale with your Crit score.
The old AD set for the SW had a max HP cap to it's damage, the fabled set did not for some reason.
Adding a quick edit here so that people realize I am not being insulting by that reply. I simply mean that if people were actually aware of the full implications of leaving it as it is -- and I mean really understanding what all that meant -- that they would not be voting no. I can only imagine that people voting 'no' don't truly realize anything being a basic and personal understanding of how it relates to themselves in some isolated and particular situation.
Mmmhhh....if i dont like the result of a poll i blame the poll generally and i blame the voters? Good point
BTT: Result is very clear. Thx for voting.
0
thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
Adding a quick edit here so that people realize I am not being insulting by that reply. I simply mean that if people were actually aware of the full implications of leaving it as it is -- and I mean really understanding what all that meant -- that they would not be voting no. I can only imagine that people voting 'no' don't truly realize anything being a basic and personal understanding of how it relates to themselves in some isolated and particular situation.
Mmmhhh....if i dont like the result of a poll i blame the poll generally and i blame the voters? Good point
Comments
Problem is, with current curves, you can't put stats elsewhere. Armorpen? useless over 60%. Recovery? Meh, most classes can reduce their cooldowns some way, Daily overusage are a problem as it stands now. I'd make daily cooldown to 60 sec, you could not use it more often, maybe some buff to all dailies.
40% crit cap That would mean a lot of wasted crit stat or very high power builds. And only radiant viable in offense slots.
Only way, if crit stat would give 1% after every 600 or 800 stat points. making it a harder sacrifice to choose between power and crit. - But that would make main attributes that give you crit chance to be 5 times more useful every other main attribute. Still, it would be the most healthy solution. (Then again - cw eye of the storm would need rework, TR should get a bonus of 10-20% (not 100%) crit chance while in stealth etc.)
Now, you can keep calling my build suboptimal on the forums without having seen it, or we can get in game and you can learn otherwise.
Normally many dps would jump for a companion that has the potential to increase their damage - but because the lol-set is too good most will stay away from the new companion. The same will probably happen for new inferior artifact sets in future mods - I doubt Cryptic will introduce a set, that is better.
I voted for an adjustment of the lol-set, because I like change and the lol-set does not only fix the artifact set for every dps but it also fixes the base-build to a high crit build for almost every dps.
Problem is, with current curves, you can't put stats elsewhere. Armorpen? useless over 60%. Recovery? Meh, most classes can reduce their cooldowns some way, Daily overusage are a problem as it stands now. I'd make daily cooldown to 60 sec, you could not use it more often, maybe some buff to all dailies.
40% crit cap That would mean a lot of wasted crit stat or very high power builds. And only radiant viable in offense slots.
Only way, if crit stat would give 1% after every 600 or 800 stat points. making it a harder sacrifice to choose between power and crit. - But that would make main attributes that give you crit chance to be 5 times more useful every other main attribute. Still, it would be the most healthy solution. (Then again - cw eye of the storm would need rework, TR should get a bonus of 10-20% (not 100%) crit chance while in stealth etc.)
power cap 100% armpen 20% add resistances to stats and make classes do elemental damages add boosts to those elemental damages to stats make it let say cw lighting damage +500/ +4%lighting damage etc same for all classes gwfs would go with phys/fire/poison not 100% but like 60%phys 40%elemental and those stat boosts could boost that elemental dmg mobs could have lower resistance values for elementals then adjust alll feats
but i said it that cos some people wants to keep the elol set as it is and they dont want any new artifact sets cos they already got elol-set.
there is very many different solutions to go balancing that sky is the limit and imagination.
Also the real problem as I understand it is the multiplier off of GWF's extremely high base dmg not all dd's. In other words the problem really seems to be 1 classes DMG, the underpowered/usefulness of the other sets, and the lack of content that would make certain set bonuses attractive. I don't know if weapon speed/delay is a hidden statistic but usually high DMG 2 handed weapons hit harder but attacked slower where a Dual Wielding DD didn't hit as hard but hit more frequently. Somehow taking into account weapon delay I think would help balance dmg between classes and even paragon paths.
you are right there are certain warlock builds that equalize a GWF
but you have to take in account that f.e. the damantion-puppet is a bug dealing up to 80% damage from overall damage, tyrannical threat dealing >50% for fury builds is --> bugged (damage ping-pong), and fury builds using morderous flames create big numbers like 500k up to 11 mio k with a -->single<-- hit, spawning sometimes a bugged puppet on top wich hits 5x for 400k or more
CW´s ? can´t say what is broken about that class, but sure there are things to tell
GWF damage is WAI, as far as I could see, and the biggest problem lots of player claim leveling these classes is born out of these disbalances from the very start
did you ever compared leveling a warlock vs. a GWF? I did and it´s more than redicules
Looking at the endcontent classes get more or less build arround bugs and broken stuff like lolset, multiproccing bondings, bugged feat, bugged powers, broken mechanics
from my side that´s ok, I did never want any nerf to any class, I want a fix to broken stuff, like this pll wants to evaluate, a fix to broken feat, powers etc
and if in the end we will find a GWF who deals 3x more damage than a fixed class, we can adjust that
even being focussed on PVP atm I do not see GWF being the worst things from all classes, not at all, no there are lot´s of other vicious classes lurking in the dark
Since >60% of the PVE community wants to keep their bugs and balance the classes arround them, let it be.
In the end this is probably more realistic as shown so many times and it seems more or less a self-confession by this company knowing there will be no lasting fix or balance, doing minor fixes and small adjustements all day, and having big fear to touch some bigger topics to avoid the left player to quit
sad, in the end the bug is the game
I read that and from my interpretion it points exactly in that direction, "small steps", "we have it on our radar", "we fear of breaking another thing" etc.
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/neverwinter/news/detail/9748123
one more, we do not need to point at GWF damage, the devs allready had that on their list for long,but things take time as we know
Do I think it will change anything? no
Adding a quick edit here so that people realize I am not being insulting by that reply. I simply mean that if people were actually aware of the full implications of leaving it as it is -- and I mean really understanding what all that meant -- that they would not be voting no. I can only imagine that people voting 'no' don't truly realize anything being a basic and personal understanding of how it relates to themselves in some isolated and particular situation.
and what happens if they dont fix it ? eloset is the only artifact set for the dps classes forever. or they make next set for 100k dmg/sec when in battle, for the area of 50feet.and other what roots enemies in the area of 50feet for 3seconds every 5seconds making 600% weapon damage/second when rooted+ has a 50% chance to steal life from those damages it does when rooted.
*cough cough* not more than twice. And that'll change when I upgrade my bondings.
It also doesn't help that I suck at dodging the beam thingies in eDemo, which is all we've been running lately
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Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/neverwinter/news/detail/9748123
"15. Q. Do you plan to fix the Lostmauth set?
A. If we do nerf the Lostmauth set, we need to have the Community's backing for this. So I might actually start a poll on the forums, so that if it does come to a point where we do nerf it, I can just point them to that poll, and say "This is what the community wanted".
And if @strumslinger had written the poll instead of getting beaten to it by a player who decided to jump all over the idea that he might make one, it might have been phrased less contentiously, or provided more options, or been made at a time when the devs were ready to provide some concrete figures as to how they might adjust it or how they envision it working, and it might have talked about balancing instead of nerfing. A lot of things might have been different.
But now, we may never know.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
<CO docs> .: Petco :. // Base DPS Sheet (needs revision) // PSA on Power Activation Delay
- Themed Tanks // Misc Build Dump // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (stat data)
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
BTT:
Result is very clear. Thx for voting.