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Would you like the Lostmauth's Set being adjusted?

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  • urabaskurabask Member Posts: 2,923 Arc User
    No


    If you are terrible as a CW, of course a GWF will beat you. You must build specifically for DPS, run ahead and melt the mobs before the GWF gets there. Quit trying to get my class nerfed just because you are built wrong. Do not use the Renegade or MoF builds, those paths are not viable for DPS. DPS CW is not a support toon, it is a ruthless damage hog.

    Ok, instead of it being all hot air (as it has been up to this point) why don't we do work this out in game. You bring the highest damage CW you know and I will bring the highest damage GWF I know (snoo snoo). If your CW can touch snoo snoo's damage, then you keep on saying that CW competes with GWF. It does not, in any world though, ill bet my vorpal enchant on it in fact that the best CW you know isn't in the same league as the best GWF I know.
    You already have a CW. Do it yourself.
    We'd see A LOT more thaum CWs if what you're suggesting was true.
    I8r4ux9.jpg
  • bauggsbauggs Member Posts: 68 Arc User
    Yes
    ok let the set be and cap critical chance to 50% power boost 100% armpen 20% add resistance stats and new item sets with special attacks/defenses +add elemental damages.
  • urabaskurabask Member Posts: 2,923 Arc User
    No
    bauggs said:

    ok let the set be and cap critical chance to 50% power boost 100% armpen 20% add resistance stats and new item sets with special attacks/defenses +add elemental damages.

    lol.

    The resistance to a change like this would dwarf the response the elol nerf is getting. Almost every DPS class is pretty heavily invested in crit and the cost to adjust would be enormous.
    I8r4ux9.jpg
  • bauggsbauggs Member Posts: 68 Arc User
    Yes
    uuyeah and then we can have bit harder contents....
  • blazious11blazious11 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 331 Arc User
    edited January 2016
    No

    reiwulf said:

    I haven't played a CW in like ages, didn't they supposedly melt enemy groups in seconds always? I remember people bringing like 3 of them for dungeons before. Has it changed that much now?

    No, but CW was king for so long, they hate that GWF is now viable. Until Mod 6, a GWF would lose to Righteous DC. I think the main problem is that there is no crit severity cap. GWF has a crit sev feat and half-orc has 5 percent. There needs to be a hard cap. Repel is only for PVP now, BTW.
    Yes, that 5-20 % is the problem, thank you to pointing that out. Most dps classes has crit severity increasing feats and passives Btw, SW, TR, CW, and archer and combat HR has it too.
    While there is no hard cap, there is still soft cap. Increasing your crit severity from example from 150 to 155% give you less damage increase, than increasing it from 100 to 105%.
    Crit severity has nothing to do with this issue.

    My story is truly a grand tale! Of course, any story about me is going to be grand simply by virtue of the main character.
  • bauggsbauggs Member Posts: 68 Arc User
    Yes
    balanced games doesnt allow people to get 100% critical hit its called critical hit cos its not basic hit
  • btfdbtfd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 177 Arc User
    Yes


    If you are terrible as a CW, of course a GWF will beat you. You must build specifically for DPS, run ahead and melt the mobs before the GWF gets there. Quit trying to get my class nerfed just because you are built wrong. Do not use the Renegade or MoF builds, those paths are not viable for DPS. DPS CW is not a support toon, it is a ruthless damage hog.

    Ok, instead of it being all hot air (as it has been up to this point) why don't we do work this out in game. You bring the highest damage CW you know and I will bring the highest damage GWF I know (snoo snoo). If your CW can touch snoo snoo's damage, then you keep on saying that CW competes with GWF. It does not, in any world though, ill bet my vorpal enchant on it in fact that the best CW you know isn't in the same league as the best GWF I know.
    You already have a CW. Do it yourself.
    I think @thefabricant wouldn't say something like that if he wasn't convinced of it being true based on testing and experience, which is what he is known for. He has a CW and he's doing crazy damage, still he is out of GWFs (esp. snoo snoo's) league damage wise. But if Sharp is the highest dmg CW you know I can assure you that snoo is easily topping him in DPS as I know both of them and had a few runs with both of them.

  • pando83pando83 Member Posts: 2,564 Arc User
    Yes



    You already have a CW. Do it yourself.

    He already did...and posted the results a few pages back.
    Now the point is if other players take it as good data or bad data. He's been challenging the ones who say his results are BS. I'd do the same. If someone says he's a bad CW and therefore his datas are not good, he has the right to say "ok, come prove it in game".
    I appreciate the fact that he is not the usual forum user that jumps in and says "my experience is X, it means the games works like this, period". He took the time to put together BiS and META toons, and make them run together.
    I'll say it again: what thefabricant posted is the best feedback about current state of DPS we have.

    I also agree with macjae (as usual): it's more reasonable to normalize a set than reworking all the content and nerf an entire class because of that one set.

    But what we see in the poll is that, basically, too many users went for the "cool toy" and do not want their precious, overperforming toy, to get fixed/ reworked/ rebalanced.
    I have the eLoL set too on my GWF, but i know it's overperforming, expecially on my class, and i'd happily give up a huge part of those extra DPS, to see the game more healthy and balanced.

    Also, i'll repeat it again: i explained how it could work, it's not necessarily a "nerf". You can keep the same amount of extra DPS on CWs/ whatever class, but change the mechanic so that it works the same across all classes.

    Other than that, i'd also point out that Paingiver scores are not a sign of DPS alone, but a lot comes from playstyle too. For example, on my GWF i run with group, i only jump ahead if i have to off-tank (I.E: group with 1 DC and all DPS, no OP or real tank), because i use wicked strike to debuff mobs damage before my team arrives, helping them to survive. Or, if there's a good CW in group, i let him freeze the mobs first, then i jump in and WS them to protect my team.
    A full DPS swordmaster with WMS, who runs miles ahead of the group and kills most of the mobs before the team gets there, will obviously score way more than someone who plays like me. But we are both GWFs.
  • pando83pando83 Member Posts: 2,564 Arc User
    Yes
    bauggs said:

    balanced games doesnt allow people to get 100% critical hit its called critical hit cos its not basic hit

    I agree 100%
    Crit chance should have a hard cap. Such as 40% at best. Not even 1% more than that. 100% crit chance, or 70-80-90%, is insane.
  • thefabricantthefabricant Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,248 Arc User
    No

    the other part of my complaint is people complaining about the GWF as the ultimate dps machine.
    they are quite simply wrong. I have one of the highest output GWFs in the game. I know that for a fact. And yet i have been equaled and beat by certain SW builds easily. I have been beaten by certain TR builds. not easily, its a DPS run, but they have beat me. I have been beat by certain CW builds. HRs are the only DPS class that hasn't beaten me but I have one in my guild that gets within 10m points.
    I will say that a GWF is the most forgiving DPS build and i think thats why so many people complain. A poorly played GWF will always out DPS any other poorly played class. Since there are so many poor to average players in neverwinter its inevitable they are going to complain about a GWF doing so much damage. On the top end though, there really isn't much difference.

    a good build, well played is viable. no matter the class. A quote from another GWF on another forum... It is not just me.

    Ok, if you are so sure your GWF's is one of the highest dps GWF's, why not take it along with me and some of the GWF's I know. Either I learn something, or you do. It achieves more then just arguing idly on the forums.
  • blazious11blazious11 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 331 Arc User
    edited January 2016
    No
    pando83 said:

    bauggs said:

    balanced games doesnt allow people to get 100% critical hit its called critical hit cos its not basic hit

    I agree 100%
    Crit chance should have a hard cap. Such as 40% at best. Not even 1% more than that. 100% crit chance, or 70-80-90%, is insane.
    I like the idea.
    Problem is, with current curves, you can't put stats elsewhere. Armorpen? useless over 60%. Recovery? Meh, most classes can reduce their cooldowns some way, Daily overusage are a problem as it stands now. I'd make daily cooldown to 60 sec, you could not use it more often, maybe some buff to all dailies.

    40% crit cap That would mean a lot of wasted crit stat or very high power builds. And only radiant viable in offense slots.

    Only way, if crit stat would give 1% after every 600 or 800 stat points. making it a harder sacrifice to choose between power and crit. - But that would make main attributes that give you crit chance to be 5 times more useful every other main attribute. Still, it would be the most healthy solution. (Then again - cw eye of the storm would need rework, TR should get a bonus of 10-20% (not 100%) crit chance while in stealth etc.)
    My story is truly a grand tale! Of course, any story about me is going to be grand simply by virtue of the main character.
  • thefabricantthefabricant Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,248 Arc User
    edited January 2016
    No

    the other part of my complaint is people complaining about the GWF as the ultimate dps machine.
    they are quite simply wrong. I have one of the highest output GWFs in the game. I know that for a fact. And yet i have been equaled and beat by certain SW builds easily. I have been beaten by certain TR builds. not easily, its a DPS run, but they have beat me. I have been beat by certain CW builds. HRs are the only DPS class that hasn't beaten me but I have one in my guild that gets within 10m points.
    I will say that a GWF is the most forgiving DPS build and i think thats why so many people complain. A poorly played GWF will always out DPS any other poorly played class. Since there are so many poor to average players in neverwinter its inevitable they are going to complain about a GWF doing so much damage. On the top end though, there really isn't much difference.

    a good build, well played is viable. no matter the class. A quote from another GWF on another forum... It is not just me.

    Ok, if you are so sure your GWF's is one of the highest dps GWF's, why not take it along with me and some of the GWF's I know. Either I learn something, or you do. It achieves more then just arguing idly on the forums.
    That is not my quote, I am not maxed out. But, you need to quit pretending GWF is the only DPS class, and stubbornly not using the Optimal build.
    ....I helped Erza write that build. I do more then twice her damage with less gear. Even with a fully specced dps CW, you still do 2/3rds the damage of a GWF who has decent gear and knows what they doing. Normally, my CW is specced for damage (I run an SS thaum build), occasionally (like for dungeon speedruns) I spec for support.

    Now, you can keep calling my build suboptimal on the forums without having seen it, or we can get in game and you can learn otherwise.
  • anantadielanantadiel Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 7 Arc User
    Yes
    I vote "YES" because actualy, everybody need do some dps take this set, Strength and dexterity are not stat for CW, SW and they take Lostmauth because Black Ice set, for exemple, give a ridiculous dps.
  • bashteros1234bashteros1234 Member Posts: 46 Arc User
    Yes
    I think the reason to adjust the lol-set should be clear to Cryptic after analyzing their key/vip sales after the release of the baby-owlbear.

    Normally many dps would jump for a companion that has the potential to increase their damage - but because the lol-set is too good most will stay away from the new companion. The same will probably happen for new inferior artifact sets in future mods - I doubt Cryptic will introduce a set, that is better.

    I voted for an adjustment of the lol-set, because I like change and the lol-set does not only fix the artifact set for every dps but it also fixes the base-build to a high crit build for almost every dps.
  • bauggsbauggs Member Posts: 68 Arc User
    Yes
    I like the idea.
    Problem is, with current curves, you can't put stats elsewhere. Armorpen? useless over 60%. Recovery? Meh, most classes can reduce their cooldowns some way, Daily overusage are a problem as it stands now. I'd make daily cooldown to 60 sec, you could not use it more often, maybe some buff to all dailies.

    40% crit cap That would mean a lot of wasted crit stat or very high power builds. And only radiant viable in offense slots.

    Only way, if crit stat would give 1% after every 600 or 800 stat points. making it a harder sacrifice to choose between power and crit. - But that would make main attributes that give you crit chance to be 5 times more useful every other main attribute. Still, it would be the most healthy solution. (Then again - cw eye of the storm would need rework, TR should get a bonus of 10-20% (not 100%) crit chance while in stealth etc.)
    power cap 100% armpen 20% add resistances to stats and make classes do elemental damages add boosts to those elemental damages to stats make it let say cw lighting damage +500/ +4%lighting damage etc same for all classes gwfs would go with phys/fire/poison not 100% but like 60%phys 40%elemental and those stat boosts could boost that elemental dmg mobs could have lower resistance values for elementals then adjust alll feats
    but i said it that cos some people wants to keep the elol set as it is and they dont want any new artifact sets cos they already got elol-set.
    there is very many different solutions to go balancing that sky is the limit and imagination.
  • thornbr1ngerthornbr1nger Member Posts: 65 Arc User
    edited January 2016
    No
    Create content that makes other set bonuses viable i.e. make it worth while for adds to have to be "controlled" not just blasted into nothingness by a CW. Nerf OP bubble and change the AC necks maybe to a straight -% Dmg taken (also bringing GF's more into line with OP).

    Also the real problem as I understand it is the multiplier off of GWF's extremely high base dmg not all dd's. In other words the problem really seems to be 1 classes DMG, the underpowered/usefulness of the other sets, and the lack of content that would make certain set bonuses attractive. I don't know if weapon speed/delay is a hidden statistic but usually high DMG 2 handed weapons hit harder but attacked slower where a Dual Wielding DD didn't hit as hard but hit more frequently. Somehow taking into account weapon delay I think would help balance dmg between classes and even paragon paths.
  • bauggsbauggs Member Posts: 68 Arc User
    Yes
    players boosts their power to 180% with buffs. critical 100% critsev 150% armpen 60% +elosets +broken enchants and what else ? you ask harder contents ? when this set alone adds+30%dmg
  • bauggsbauggs Member Posts: 68 Arc User
    Yes
    and ofcourse attack speed could be a stat too after hard caps
  • xgrandz02xgrandz02 Member Posts: 702 Arc User
    No
    Almost 300 Votes for NO that says Everything!.
    <::::::[]==0 GwF 0==[]::::::> ● Still waiting for the promised Improvement ●
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    edited January 2016
    Yes

    the other part of my complaint is people complaining about the GWF as the ultimate dps machine.
    they are quite simply wrong. I have one of the highest output GWFs in the game. I know that for a fact. And yet i have been equaled and beat by certain SW builds easily. I have been beaten by certain TR builds. not easily, its a DPS run, but they have beat me. I have been beat by certain CW builds. HRs are the only DPS class that hasn't beaten me but I have one in my guild that gets within 10m points.
    I will say that a GWF is the most forgiving DPS build and i think thats why so many people complain. A poorly played GWF will always out DPS any other poorly played class. Since there are so many poor to average players in neverwinter its inevitable they are going to complain about a GWF doing so much damage. On the top end though, there really isn't much difference.

    a good build, well played is viable. no matter the class. A quote from another GWF on another forum... It is not just me.

    you are right, there is one dungeon a TR can out dps a GWF --> elol ( I was told so by a very good PVE TR)

    you are right there are certain warlock builds that equalize a GWF
    but you have to take in account that f.e. the damantion-puppet is a bug dealing up to 80% damage from overall damage, tyrannical threat dealing >50% for fury builds is --> bugged (damage ping-pong), and fury builds using morderous flames create big numbers like 500k up to 11 mio k with a -->single<-- hit, spawning sometimes a bugged puppet on top wich hits 5x for 400k or more

    CW´s ? can´t say what is broken about that class, but sure there are things to tell

    GWF damage is WAI, as far as I could see, and the biggest problem lots of player claim leveling these classes is born out of these disbalances from the very start
    did you ever compared leveling a warlock vs. a GWF? I did and it´s more than redicules
    Looking at the endcontent classes get more or less build arround bugs and broken stuff like lolset, multiproccing bondings, bugged feat, bugged powers, broken mechanics

    from my side that´s ok, I did never want any nerf to any class, I want a fix to broken stuff, like this pll wants to evaluate, a fix to broken feat, powers etc
    and if in the end we will find a GWF who deals 3x more damage than a fixed class, we can adjust that

    even being focussed on PVP atm I do not see GWF being the worst things from all classes, not at all, no there are lot´s of other vicious classes lurking in the dark :)

    Since >60% of the PVE community wants to keep their bugs and balance the classes arround them, let it be.
    In the end this is probably more realistic as shown so many times and it seems more or less a self-confession by this company knowing there will be no lasting fix or balance, doing minor fixes and small adjustements all day, and having big fear to touch some bigger topics to avoid the left player to quit
    sad, in the end the bug is the game

    I read that and from my interpretion it points exactly in that direction, "small steps", "we have it on our radar", "we fear of breaking another thing" etc.
    http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/neverwinter/news/detail/9748123

    one more, we do not need to point at GWF damage, the devs allready had that on their list for long,but things take time as we know
    Do I think it will change anything? no
    Post edited by schietindebux on
  • hedgebethedgebet Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 447 Arc User
    edited January 2016
    Yes
    xgrandz02 said:

    Almost 300 Votes for NO that says Everything!.

    Low informed voters?

    Adding a quick edit here so that people realize I am not being insulting by that reply. I simply mean that if people were actually aware of the full implications of leaving it as it is -- and I mean really understanding what all that meant -- that they would not be voting no. I can only imagine that people voting 'no' don't truly realize anything being a basic and personal understanding of how it relates to themselves in some isolated and particular situation.
  • bauggsbauggs Member Posts: 68 Arc User
    Yes
    the age of the voters what is it ? 7y---->70y ? so what should be done..cryptic should not even ask anyone what opinion they have and those players should be informed correctly what is going on with the set and why it is broke.
    and what happens if they dont fix it ? eloset is the only artifact set for the dps classes forever. or they make next set for 100k dmg/sec when in battle, for the area of 50feet.and other what roots enemies in the area of 50feet for 3seconds every 5seconds making 600% weapon damage/second when rooted+ has a 50% chance to steal life from those damages it does when rooted.
  • taitinhakkaajataitinhakkaaja Member Posts: 410 Arc User
    No
    Everyone seem to forget sw's fabled set -> key to high dps, sadly it ain't available anymore.
  • bauggsbauggs Member Posts: 68 Arc User
    Yes
    rewarding easter eggs in dungeon cos they are done in 2min inside the egg is peridot and letter what says "congratulations"
  • katamaster81899katamaster81899 Member Posts: 1,157 Arc User
    edited January 2016
    Yes
    the other part of my complaint is people complaining about the GWF as the ultimate dps machine.
    they are quite simply wrong. I have one of the highest output GWFs in the game. I know that for a fact. And yet i have been equaled and beat by certain SW builds easily. I have been beaten by certain TR builds. not easily, its a DPS run, but they have beat me. I have been beat by certain CW builds. HRs are the only DPS class that hasn't beaten me but I have one in my guild that gets within 10m points.
    I will say that a GWF is the most forgiving DPS build and i think thats why so many people complain. A poorly played GWF will always out DPS any other poorly played class. Since there are so many poor to average players in neverwinter its inevitable they are going to complain about a GWF doing so much damage. On the top end though, there really isn't much difference.

    a good build, well played is viable. no matter the class. A quote from another GWF on another forum... It is not just me.


    Ok, if you are so sure your GWF's is one of the highest dps GWF's, why not take it along with me and some of the GWF's I know. Either I learn something, or you do. It achieves more then just arguing idly on the forums.

    That is not my quote, I am not maxed out. But, you need to quit pretending GWF is the only DPS class, and stubbornly not using the Optimal build.

    ....I helped Erza write that build. I do more then twice her damage with less gear. Even with a fully specced dps CW, you still do 2/3rds the damage of a GWF who has decent gear and knows what they doing. Normally, my CW is specced for damage (I run an SS thaum build), occasionally (like for dungeon speedruns) I spec for support.

    Now, you can keep calling my build suboptimal on the forums without having seen it, or we can get in game and you can learn otherwise.

    *cough cough* not more than twice. And that'll change when I upgrade my bondings. :/ Considering my crit in ACT has been around 62% recently, when that becomes 90% with full bondings, and r11 azures on companions, that'll make big difference :P

    It also doesn't help that I suck at dodging the beam thingies in eDemo, which is all we've been running lately D:​​
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  • btfdbtfd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 177 Arc User
    Yes

    Everyone seem to forget sw's fabled set -> key to high dps, sadly it ain't available anymore.

    This has at least been some sort of taken care of - you can't get it anymore. Elol set is available for everybody at any time if you have the AD

  • beckylunaticbeckylunatic Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 14,231 Arc User
    Yes

    cryptic, you did yourself no favour with this poll

    Lol, because @nuudlz totally works for Cryptic/PWE.

    No ragrets, not one letter.

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  • schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    edited January 2016
    Yes

    cryptic, you did yourself no favour with this poll

    Lol, because @nuudlz totally works for Cryptic/PWE.

    No ragrets, not one letter.

    you are right but..... that´s what they stated sunday 17., so nuudl just followed that statement (knowing: " So I might actually start a poll" may take some mods... :smile:

    http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/neverwinter/news/detail/9748123

    "15. Q. Do you plan to fix the Lostmauth set?

    A. If we do nerf the Lostmauth set, we need to have the Community's backing for this. So I might actually start a poll on the forums, so that if it does come to a point where we do nerf it, I can just point them to that poll, and say "This is what the community wanted".
  • beckylunaticbeckylunatic Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 14,231 Arc User
    Yes

    cryptic, you did yourself no favour with this poll

    Lol, because @nuudlz totally works for Cryptic/PWE.

    No ragrets, not one letter.

    you are right but..... that´s what they stated sunday 17., so nuudl just followed that statement (knowing: " So I might actually start a poll" may take some mods... :smile:

    http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/neverwinter/news/detail/9748123

    "15. Q. Do you plan to fix the Lostmauth set?

    A. If we do nerf the Lostmauth set, we need to have the Community's backing for this. So I might actually start a poll on the forums, so that if it does come to a point where we do nerf it, I can just point them to that poll, and say "This is what the community wanted".
    Yeah....

    And if @strumslinger had written the poll instead of getting beaten to it by a player who decided to jump all over the idea that he might make one, it might have been phrased less contentiously, or provided more options, or been made at a time when the devs were ready to provide some concrete figures as to how they might adjust it or how they envision it working, and it might have talked about balancing instead of nerfing. A lot of things might have been different.

    But now, we may never know.
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  • beckylunaticbeckylunatic Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 14,231 Arc User
    Yes
    bauggs said:

    rewarding easter eggs in dungeon cos they are done in 2min inside the egg is peridot and letter what says "congratulations"

    I want Larry, Darryl, and Darryl's autograph.
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    Neverwinter Census 2017

    All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
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