vinceent1Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,264Arc User
why so many people say dont nerf lostmauth set?
in my opinion its because epic demogorgon difficulty. Whoever has already weapon set dont need play epic version anymore, so its pretty hard if you cant control who is in your team, its not easy create even 5 members premade for it (with one tank and one healer). Even dont meant lag difficulties. If we have no edemo, poll can be different
One of the best post i ever readed, metalldjt. 100% agree. I only voted no, cuzz i hate it when the solution for a big problem allways should be "NERF IT!!". I hope the devs gonna read your post, metalldjt...
I guess its time to rabble on about terminology. LM set may be 'broken' (I'll just say its 'unbalanced' for now), but there's a difference between something being unbalanced and something being an exploit. Most exploits happen to be unbalanced by nature, but not all unbalanced things are exploits- and labeling heavy use of unbalanced things as 'abuse' is a bit too dicey for my tastes. Plus, in the context of the game, something isn't really an exploit unless the devs acknowledge it as such, else its just a really subjective label to toss around.
Are their exploiters among the players using LM set? Probably- there's nearly always bad eggs, but most likely aren't, nor do most people who obsess over min-maxing have some sort of malicious agenda underneath. Usually that kind of quirk its just a bit weird, but overall benign.
so it's an exploit before or after the devs are giving their opinion about the broken stuff?
cause for what i know alot of ppl called other people exploiters for alot of broken and overpowered stuff, as ex. at the beginnin of mod6: incredible lifedrinker ench, incredible bloodtheft ench , incredible fire buff from wheel of elements+being able to benefit from all the 4buffs at once, from all these 3 broken/ overpowered items people used and ended up being called exploiters, i also had an argument on the same problem when the Casual Gameplay meets the broken stuff : is that an exploit or not? My opinion was always this: if it's broken and the devs know about it, it's not a exploit, cause if it were an exploit it would've been fixed already. But people like @blinxon and @thefabricante and @ironzerg got in a argument with me over the ECC last boss being bugged by players , and i can quote them : "there is no excuse for exploiting" . But when i told them, how do you know that is an exploit since the devs haven't done anything against it, they haven't tried to say anything about it or tried to fx it asap, and let players use that method over and over again. and on the same premise "there is no excuse for exploiting" i replied to them "what happens if players are goin to be punished over something when normal play meets the exploits" ... of course they said that things like this will never happen , if you are legit you are protected by a divine invisible hand, but on 22nd december alot of players got banned , and alot of "if you play legit you won't be banned" players ended up being banned , and that was the point were what i said proved that how some players think in this game, they prefer to have a 1v1 against other players in terms of broken things that devs implement in the game, rather than channeling that energy towards the devs themselfs for not moving a finger when it's to stop the root of the problem.
no, i disagree, if you need a defintion of exploit it´s easy to google
"In video games, an exploit is the use of a bug or glitches, game system, rates, hit boxes, or speed, etc. by a player to their advantage in a manner not intended by the game's designers." (and NWO has tons of not intended stuff)
Cryptic can´t punish the hole community abusing obvious broken things, otherwise this game would not exist. so they will not give official statements to messed up content, classes and gear, otherwise they would have a problem not being able to fix all those stuff exploits are: -lolset -multiproccing bondings from companion -every singel class in this game without exception has bugged feats trees and power (too much to name them) -broken mechanics disbalancing classes, like GWF/GF or DC (faithfull capstone) and tons of feats doing silly stuff in groupplay -dungeons not solvable in mod 6 being bugged and never tested, only by glitches most cases -graphic errors allowing ppl to be invulnerable blocking capturepoint in GG or SH-PVP etc
......almost everything and there do exist older threads with endless lists
I guess its time to rabble on about terminology. LM set may be 'broken' (I'll just say its 'unbalanced' for now), but there's a difference between something being unbalanced and something being an exploit. Most exploits happen to be unbalanced by nature, but not all unbalanced things are exploits- and labeling heavy use of unbalanced things as 'abuse' is a bit too dicey for my tastes. Plus, in the context of the game, something isn't really an exploit unless the devs acknowledge it as such, else its just a really subjective label to toss around.
Are their exploiters among the players using LM set? Probably- there's nearly always bad eggs, but most likely aren't, nor do most people who obsess over min-maxing have some sort of malicious agenda underneath. Usually that kind of quirk its just a bit weird, but overall benign.
so it's an exploit before or after the devs are giving their opinion about the broken stuff?
cause for what i know alot of ppl called other people exploiters for alot of broken and overpowered stuff, as ex. at the beginnin of mod6: incredible lifedrinker ench, incredible bloodtheft ench , incredible fire buff from wheel of elements+being able to benefit from all the 4buffs at once, from all these 3 broken/ overpowered items people used and ended up being called exploiters, i also had an argument on the same problem when the Casual Gameplay meets the broken stuff : is that an exploit or not? My opinion was always this: if it's broken and the devs know about it, it's not a exploit, cause if it were an exploit it would've been fixed already. But people like @blinxon and @thefabricante and @ironzerg got in a argument with me over the ECC last boss being bugged by players , and i can quote them : "there is no excuse for exploiting" . But when i told them, how do you know that is an exploit since the devs haven't done anything against it, they haven't tried to say anything about it or tried to fx it asap, and let players use that method over and over again. and on the same premise "there is no excuse for exploiting" i replied to them "what happens if players are goin to be punished over something when normal play meets the exploits" ... of course they said that things like this will never happen , if you are legit you are protected by a divine invisible hand, but on 22nd december alot of players got banned , and alot of "if you play legit you won't be banned" players ended up being banned , and that was the point were what i said proved that how some players think in this game, they prefer to have a 1v1 against other players in terms of broken things that devs implement in the game, rather than channeling that energy towards the devs themselfs for not moving a finger when it's to stop the root of the problem.
no, i disagree, if you need a defintion of exploit it´s easy to google
"In video games, an exploit is the use of a bug or glitches, game system, rates, hit boxes, or speed, etc. by a player to their advantage in a manner not intended by the game's designers." (and NWO has tons of not intended stuff)
Cryptic can´t punish the hole community abusing obvious broken things, otherwise this game would not exist. so they will not give official statements to messed up content, classes and gear, otherwise they would have a problem not being able to fix all those stuff exploits are: -lolset -multiproccing bondings from companion -every singel class in this game without exception has bugged feats trees and power (too much to name them) -broken mechanics disbalancing classes, like GWF/GF or DC (faithfull capstone) and tons of feats doing silly stuff in groupplay -dungeons not solvable in mod 6 being bugged and never tested, only by glitches most cases -graphic errors allowing ppl to be invulnerable blocking capturepoint in GG or SH-PVP etc
......almost everything and there do exist older threads with endless lists
The caveat here is that without dev input something is not an expoit; if you do not have input from the devs you have to make your own judgment call. The rule of thumb you should follow is that if you're doing something that you normally cannot do it's an exploit. So the ESoT exploit is clearly an exploit because you cannot normally attack bosses from spawn. The lolset on the other hand? You do more damage because you equipped an artifact. There are other artifacts that do this. People assume it's an exploit based on precedent that other items with similar triggers behave differently but without actual input from the devs clearly stating that it's an exploit you cannot assume it is one.
Part of the reason for this is that sometimes bugs that people assume are exploits become features. K-style in Gunz is the first one that comes to mind for me; it was clearly a bug but it was so popular with the community the devs decided leaving it in was more beneficial than fixing it. Cryptic could take the same stance on the lolset so you can't really label it an exploit.
I guess its time to rabble on about terminology. LM set may be 'broken' (I'll just say its 'unbalanced' for now), but there's a difference between something being unbalanced and something being an exploit. Most exploits happen to be unbalanced by nature, but not all unbalanced things are exploits- and labeling heavy use of unbalanced things as 'abuse' is a bit too dicey for my tastes. Plus, in the context of the game, something isn't really an exploit unless the devs acknowledge it as such, else its just a really subjective label to toss around.
Are their exploiters among the players using LM set? Probably- there's nearly always bad eggs, but most likely aren't, nor do most people who obsess over min-maxing have some sort of malicious agenda underneath. Usually that kind of quirk its just a bit weird, but overall benign.
so it's an exploit before or after the devs are giving their opinion about the broken stuff?
cause for what i know alot of ppl called other people exploiters for alot of broken and overpowered stuff, as ex. at the beginnin of mod6: incredible lifedrinker ench, incredible bloodtheft ench , incredible fire buff from wheel of elements+being able to benefit from all the 4buffs at once, from all these 3 broken/ overpowered items people used and ended up being called exploiters, i also had an argument on the same problem when the Casual Gameplay meets the broken stuff : is that an exploit or not? My opinion was always this: if it's broken and the devs know about it, it's not a exploit, cause if it were an exploit it would've been fixed already. But people like @blinxon and @thefabricante and @ironzerg got in a argument with me over the ECC last boss being bugged by players , and i can quote them : "there is no excuse for exploiting" . But when i told them, how do you know that is an exploit since the devs haven't done anything against it, they haven't tried to say anything about it or tried to fx it asap, and let players use that method over and over again. and on the same premise "there is no excuse for exploiting" i replied to them "what happens if players are goin to be punished over something when normal play meets the exploits" ... of course they said that things like this will never happen , if you are legit you are protected by a divine invisible hand, but on 22nd december alot of players got banned , and alot of "if you play legit you won't be banned" players ended up being banned , and that was the point were what i said proved that how some players think in this game, they prefer to have a 1v1 against other players in terms of broken things that devs implement in the game, rather than channeling that energy towards the devs themselfs for not moving a finger when it's to stop the root of the problem.
no, i disagree, if you need a defintion of exploit it´s easy to google
"In video games, an exploit is the use of a bug or glitches, game system, rates, hit boxes, or speed, etc. by a player to their advantage in a manner not intended by the game's designers." (and NWO has tons of not intended stuff)
Cryptic can´t punish the hole community abusing obvious broken things, otherwise this game would not exist. so they will not give official statements to messed up content, classes and gear, otherwise they would have a problem not being able to fix all those stuff exploits are: -lolset -multiproccing bondings from companion -every singel class in this game without exception has bugged feats trees and power (too much to name them) -broken mechanics disbalancing classes, like GWF/GF or DC (faithfull capstone) and tons of feats doing silly stuff in groupplay -dungeons not solvable in mod 6 being bugged and never tested, only by glitches most cases -graphic errors allowing ppl to be invulnerable blocking capturepoint in GG or SH-PVP etc
......almost everything and there do exist older threads with endless lists
exactly ^ but since the game had these types of exploits since day 1, the term exploit lost it's meaning, other way you cannot put it. so to have exploits you also need to have a WAI content, but since this game never had something like that since day one, how can you choose what is true or wrong .e.g the poll results proves exactly that. Nowadays the term "exploit" is used to insult someone and bash his name or guild on the forums, but if you analyze truly you will notice that everyone exploits atleast the list that you put there. So what is the point in punishin players over it anymore?
I abuse these things more or less in agreement with the developper, who has no solutions, right. In case of lolset I have a clear mind about that set: it has far too much influence in this game and just makes everything else obsolete, no other set will get from interest except valindra-set for some CW-PVP builds ingame on the other hand it produces tons of lags from endless procs and rebound phenomen, sudden death to some classes and some other crazy stuff even the devs have no clue about
some of you know these sudden frozen moment in PVP DOm/GG/SH-PVP? that happens when a warlock casts warlock bargain on a Paladin and that spell crits causing such a weared slope of endless damage, rebouncing between both classes, until someone drops dead to the ground or it runs out
doesn´t happen that way without it in my case I a sure it´s a mix from feats, powers and setboni, but it has part in this, as it has part in lots of other stuff, like filling up my sparks in one second by that, thanks
The most broken things at the moment are the level 60 sets being used by level 70 toons, I wonder if enemies were made with these sets in mind. It looks like they were not. Next is Into the Fray, it is breaking PVP and PVE, the LM set is broken, but not on par with other things.
not on par? name me anything in game that deals more damage, does more crazy interactions, more disbalance to classes? LM set is 30% + damage to GWF, TR, SS-CW etc.
ilianbruen is a set not adjusted and forgotten by the devs, few warlocks wear it. But do you go solo content by that, or dungeons except some bigger endbosses ? i guess not
I guess its time to rabble on about terminology. LM set may be 'broken' (I'll just say its 'unbalanced' for now), but there's a difference between something being unbalanced and something being an exploit. Most exploits happen to be unbalanced by nature, but not all unbalanced things are exploits- and labeling heavy use of unbalanced things as 'abuse' is a bit too dicey for my tastes. Plus, in the context of the game, something isn't really an exploit unless the devs acknowledge it as such, else its just a really subjective label to toss around.
Are their exploiters among the players using LM set? Probably- there's nearly always bad eggs, but most likely aren't, nor do most people who obsess over min-maxing have some sort of malicious agenda underneath. Usually that kind of quirk its just a bit weird, but overall benign.
so it's an exploit before or after the devs are giving their opinion about the broken stuff?
cause for what i know alot of ppl called other people exploiters for alot of broken and overpowered stuff, as ex. at the beginnin of mod6: incredible lifedrinker ench, incredible bloodtheft ench , incredible fire buff from wheel of elements+being able to benefit from all the 4buffs at once, from all these 3 broken/ overpowered items people used and ended up being called exploiters, i also had an argument on the same problem when the Casual Gameplay meets the broken stuff : is that an exploit or not? My opinion was always this: if it's broken and the devs know about it, it's not a exploit, cause if it were an exploit it would've been fixed already. But people like @blinxon and @thefabricante and @ironzerg got in a argument with me over the ECC last boss being bugged by players , and i can quote them : "there is no excuse for exploiting" . But when i told them, how do you know that is an exploit since the devs haven't done anything against it, they haven't tried to say anything about it or tried to fx it asap, and let players use that method over and over again. and on the same premise "there is no excuse for exploiting" i replied to them "what happens if players are goin to be punished over something when normal play meets the exploits" ... of course they said that things like this will never happen , if you are legit you are protected by a divine invisible hand, but on 22nd december alot of players got banned , and alot of "if you play legit you won't be banned" players ended up being banned , and that was the point were what i said proved that how some players think in this game, they prefer to have a 1v1 against other players in terms of broken things that devs implement in the game, rather than channeling that energy towards the devs themselfs for not moving a finger when it's to stop the root of the problem.
no, i disagree, if you need a defintion of exploit it´s easy to google
"In video games, an exploit is the use of a bug or glitches, game system, rates, hit boxes, or speed, etc. by a player to their advantage in a manner not intended by the game's designers." (and NWO has tons of not intended stuff)
Cryptic can´t punish the hole community abusing obvious broken things, otherwise this game would not exist. so they will not give official statements to messed up content, classes and gear, otherwise they would have a problem not being able to fix all those stuff exploits are: -lolset -multiproccing bondings from companion -every singel class in this game without exception has bugged feats trees and power (too much to name them) -broken mechanics disbalancing classes, like GWF/GF or DC (faithfull capstone) and tons of feats doing silly stuff in groupplay -dungeons not solvable in mod 6 being bugged and never tested, only by glitches most cases -graphic errors allowing ppl to be invulnerable blocking capturepoint in GG or SH-PVP etc
......almost everything and there do exist older threads with endless lists
The caveat here is that without dev input something is not an expoit; if you do not have input from the devs you have to make your own judgment call. The rule of thumb you should follow is that if you're doing something that you normally cannot do it's an exploit. So the ESoT exploit is clearly an exploit because you cannot normally attack bosses from spawn. The lolset on the other hand? You do more damage because you equipped an artifact. There are other artifacts that do this. People assume it's an exploit based on precedent that other items with similar triggers behave differently but without actual input from the devs clearly stating that it's an exploit you cannot assume it is one.
Part of the reason for this is that sometimes bugs that people assume are exploits become features. K-style in Gunz is the first one that comes to mind for me; it was clearly a bug but it was so popular with the community the devs decided leaving it in was more beneficial than fixing it. Cryptic could take the same stance on the lolset so you can't really label it an exploit.
i also played gunz long time ago, the first Gunz , and it had the butterfly style or how was it called with the katana dash and block , jumpin around the enemy and blockin all the bullets... it took skillz to perform someth like that, but easily could've been macroed, and yea it was left in the game. same jumpin over the walls with hitin the jump+dash+slash repeatin it fast, but yea it requires skill to be able to perform these type of stuff.
like alot of dungeon exploits were required skill to be able to jump on the texture, not to mention that whoever was finding them,but this was long long time ago and everyone were doing them from karrundax to icefire ending up with CN , and DREAD VAULT. finding all those sweet spots were the boss couldn't target you , especially as a CW.
Butterfly was part of K-style. While it did take skill it was largely left in the game because of massive backlash from the playerbase when they tried to remove it.
In my opinion the fact that everybody uses Lostmauth set knowing it doesn't really work like it is intended (which one can think of by hearing about the fact that they want to look into it again and the fact that it's clearly more viable than other sets) makes it an exploit or whatever you want to call it. It should just do what the tooltip says. If you call that a nerf or a fix doesn't matter to the outcome. It's the devs fault if they take too much time to fix it and now nearly everybody has invested time and money in it. Don't want to sound harsh but in this case they have to cope with all the complaints that would come over them. I for myself don't use anything @schietindebux mentioned in his list, as I feel like cheating. And as we all know cheating is funny for 5minutes and gets boring after that time. Also what kind of an achievement is it to beat in example dungeons with cheats?
The devs should make their own decision whether it should be nerf, not the players.
Most players are greedy, they just want to be as powerful as they can, no one likes being nerfed. But a good dev is like a strict parent, you need to do what will make the game better. This game severely lacks choice. I would suggest reworking all the sets to make them on-par with each other, but I'm doubting the creativity capacity of whoever designs these set bonuses.
I think the other sets should be buffed, it should be a valid choice between the sets. for example; Black Ice set give a chance (how much??) for 10% irresistible dmg, which pales in comparison to the 20-25% dmg increase I get from lostmouth set
If two sets work the same (DPS) and one deliver 2% damage and the other 20% evidently there is something wrong (10 times! And even more!) and if devs said 'sets should give just a small boost' it's more than clear that the first is WAI while the latter clearly off from that statement. And all people abusing it shows just that. And developers didn't do anything to fix the situation, and this is bad since it would be an easy fix. If they want to promote GWF there are other ways to do it instead of letting a broken set go wild.
It. Does. Not. Matter.
They've left the set as is for ages if they really believed it was an exploit they would've told the community and nerfed it. Instead they put it in the tradebar store for 1200 bars.
I'm a Lostmauth customer too blinxon. And I don't put myself at their side. In fact they are all ignored in my game, I would have liked an ignore list here too. A great freedom tool I would expect in an american forum.
I just wanted it balanced out, for my toons too. Let's remove corruption and exploits from the game, that is what I'm for. For a better player experience (360°). Balance, I didn't made any names. Exploiters already know who they are and I'm not a justicialist, nor without any sin.
And I do not automatically pretend any voter for the No being a 'bad man', some people just fail to understand the implication of a positionvand maybe later change their mind, so...
Not all those voting Hitler were bad people, just ignorant in that particular moment and I've been ignorant on many occasions too. Peace.
Game over man, giggle, GAME OVER! You mentioned Hitler, Godwins' law is invoked, this discussion is meaningless. /em mic drop
0
Options
thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
I'm a Lostmauth customer too blinxon. And I don't put myself at their side. In fact they are all ignored in my game, I would have liked an ignore list here too. A great freedom tool I would expect in an american forum.
I just wanted it balanced out, for my toons too. Let's remove corruption and exploits from the game, that is what I'm for. For a better player experience (360°). Balance, I didn't made any names. Exploiters already know who they are and I'm not a justicialist, nor without any sin.
And I do not automatically pretend any voter for the No being a 'bad man', some people just fail to understand the implication of a positionvand maybe later change their mind, so...
Not all those voting Hitler were bad people, just ignorant in that particular moment and I've been ignorant on many occasions too. Peace.
Game over man, giggle, GAME OVER! You mentioned Hitler, Godwins' law is invoked, this discussion is meaningless. /em mic drop
I thought I was like the only one who was aware of Godwin's law...pity I didn't pick up on it myself
God no theFabricant anyone who has been on the 'net as long as I have should be aware of Godwins law. It should be taught in netiquette class, and debating groups. If you can't make an an argument without without referencing the most extreme and unpalatable person in human history, have you got a valid argument?. It's the sure sign that your debate is dead.and can only devolve from there and any valid points will be lost
1. Nerf this set, players will not spend anymore $$/AD/time on it.
2. Buffer other sets, player will need to spend more $$/AD/time to get other sets done
Which option will u chose? >:)
they will chose to raise the level cap again in mod 10 :* and since they learn from their errors, they will release superior horn of super lostmauth and the circle will never end.
1. Nerf this set, players will not spend anymore $$/AD/time on it.
2. Buffer other sets, player will need to spend more $$/AD/time to get other sets done
Which option will u chose? >:)
they will chose to raise the level cap again in mod 10 :* and since they learn from their errors, they will release superior horn of super lostmauth and the circle will never end.
After the release of the Paladope, a wholly new class.
Comments
in my opinion its because epic demogorgon difficulty. Whoever has already weapon set dont need play epic version anymore, so its pretty hard if you cant control who is in your team, its not easy create even 5 members premade for it (with one tank and one healer). Even dont meant lag difficulties. If we have no edemo, poll can be different
I hope the devs gonna read your post, metalldjt...
"In video games, an exploit is the use of a bug or glitches, game system, rates, hit boxes, or speed, etc. by a player to their advantage in a manner not intended by the game's designers." (and NWO has tons of not intended stuff)
Cryptic can´t punish the hole community abusing obvious broken things, otherwise this game would not exist.
so they will not give official statements to messed up content, classes and gear, otherwise they would have a problem not being able to fix all those stuff
exploits are:
-lolset
-multiproccing bondings from companion
-every singel class in this game without exception has bugged feats trees and power (too much to name them)
-broken mechanics disbalancing classes, like GWF/GF or DC (faithfull capstone) and tons of feats doing silly stuff in groupplay
-dungeons not solvable in mod 6 being bugged and never tested, only by glitches most cases
-graphic errors allowing ppl to be invulnerable blocking capturepoint in GG or SH-PVP etc
......almost everything and there do exist older threads with endless lists
Part of the reason for this is that sometimes bugs that people assume are exploits become features. K-style in Gunz is the first one that comes to mind for me; it was clearly a bug but it was so popular with the community the devs decided leaving it in was more beneficial than fixing it. Cryptic could take the same stance on the lolset so you can't really label it an exploit.
I abuse these things more or less in agreement with the developper, who has no solutions, right.
In case of lolset I have a clear mind about that set: it has far too much influence in this game and just makes everything else obsolete, no other set will get from interest except valindra-set for some CW-PVP builds ingame
on the other hand it produces tons of lags from endless procs and rebound phenomen, sudden death to some classes and some other crazy stuff even the devs have no clue about
some of you know these sudden frozen moment in PVP DOm/GG/SH-PVP?
that happens when a warlock casts warlock bargain on a Paladin and that spell crits causing such a weared slope of endless damage, rebouncing between both classes, until someone drops dead to the ground or it runs out
I a sure it´s a mix from feats, powers and setboni, but it has part in this, as it has part in lots of other stuff, like filling up my sparks in one second by that, thanks
name me anything in game that deals more damage, does more crazy interactions, more disbalance to classes?
LM set is 30% + damage to GWF, TR, SS-CW etc.
ilianbruen is a set not adjusted and forgotten by the devs, few warlocks wear it. But do you go solo content by that, or dungeons except some bigger endbosses ? i guess not
Most players are greedy, they just want to be as powerful as they can, no one likes being nerfed. But a good dev is like a strict parent, you need to do what will make the game better. This game severely lacks choice. I would suggest reworking all the sets to make them on-par with each other, but I'm doubting the creativity capacity of whoever designs these set bonuses.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
for example; Black Ice set give a chance (how much??) for 10% irresistible dmg, which pales in comparison to the 20-25% dmg increase I get from lostmouth set
They've left the set as is for ages if they really believed it was an exploit they would've told the community and nerfed it. Instead they put it in the tradebar store for 1200 bars.
You mentioned Hitler, Godwins' law is invoked, this discussion is meaningless.
/em mic drop
It should be taught in netiquette class, and debating groups.
If you can't make an an argument without without referencing the most extreme and unpalatable person in human history, have you got a valid argument?.
It's the sure sign that your debate is dead.and can only devolve from there and any valid points will be lost
For dev/ cryptic:
1. Nerf this set, players will not spend anymore $$/AD/time on it.
2. Buffer other sets, player will need to spend more $$/AD/time to get other sets done
Which option will u chose? >:)
and since they learn from their errors, they will release superior horn of super lostmauth and the circle will never end.