Beat me all matchs i even take 20% of HP he kills me in less than 10 seconds... that means Piercing Damage dont need to be removed... GWF needs a Nerf (that is coming btw) and TR needs a buff....
hm i would pull a different conclusion therefrom you need a buff, most TR´s don´t question of skill/build and expierience in your case, nothing else how long do you play this game
endless list, show me any vid from a PVP warlock like this, "life steal is fun" should be their domain and i am not interested at all in watching any video of your fights vs each other, it was too predictable how its gonna end you vs a skilled PVP pro
@schietindebux i can beat many players... Even 1 hit killed many ppl but he is on BiS with the Lions Mane armor and Overload enchants... I understand he beats me but i had no chance... Now if to be a pro i must build defensive... I own PVP many Times but is sure that they was undergeared ppl. U may see the match to get a real impression and btw u hav a Rogue with high IL ?
@cesuke, I'm not sure how new you are to the community, but not only should you beat gwfs right now.. Under no circumstances should any gwf kill you with the current situation of both classes ... With all the defensive points in game right now , it's 100% impossible to die 1v1 vs anything as a tr; assuming you want to be considered competent
Bars need to be set every day, for the TR's in my guild that want to succeed , this is the very beginning of what's expected of them .
You might need to re-evaluate your skill level.
At any rate, Icy drake and I went out to icewind Dale to follow up on the numbers from shocking execution.
With first strike from an executioner path with 15000 power and max Str/CBA damage , highest hitting SE from full health was 93k, he'll testify that point. (no buff potions)
Next we did a baseline of tr vs gwf average shocking damage with current meta build
Average shocking damage. 45k
Lowest shocking, 30k Crit
Highest shocking, 59k crit
These are average damages from our 1v1s with two completely competent BiS players from their class .
He will testify to all these numbers.
With the current healing potions , water buffs, and life steal, the only reason why trs can kill a gwf right now is execessive AP gain and a snail mount. Otherwise our damage is laughable at best..
Me and Tardli were using duelist flurry on icy drake and were killing ourselves before it damaged him.
I advise the community to do proper research before posting balance recommendations.
In conclusion , the vast, if not absolute majority of all shockings that exceed 100k damage are because of outside buffs or the fact that your life % was below a certain threshold to activate 2 certain executioner feats... But in that regard, you would've been dead anyways.
Anyone that wants to replicate these results, and show different results to me first hand, comment or send me an in game/forum private message.
I mentioned no buff pots for a reason, buff pots themselves should not be in the equation, nor should they be allowed in pvp.
But take this into consideration
The majority of The game is about to gain an addiotnal 32k HP for free due to a guild boon.
So even if the terribly inconsistent 100k SEa were something you wanted to build against.. With the 32K extra hp, the potion buff, and the now 50-60k PvP health pots.. It definantly would no longer be an issue.
In all honesty it should be vice versa, the cw wearing cloth should not under any circumstances have an umitigateable dr later... Gwfs however , being so that it's their only means of escaping damage, I'd be more privy to accept.
In addition to that, they need to remove the Dr layers from a lot of classes, and re-add them to the AC or armor class stat...that stat adds .5% Dr per point over 10, and for that reason alone is why you see very little difference at base stats in the defensive difference between multiple classes
They need to see re-weight and add more obtainable stats to the AC attribute in order to passively separate squishes vs tanks or bruisers
In fact AC should be the biggest addative to damage resistance in general in the game
@dersidius u aré giving me the reason... I hav not a defensive build. Nor use shocking or perma with COS spam... Just went in melee with him... And got what u say killing myself doing close to nothing of damage... Thats all... Btw with 110% arpen... GWF can get defense farly more than 100% with their buffs...
@clonkyo1 plz dont talk if u dont know... My build is not oriented to Action Point gain... And overall i dont use one-move builds like most pvp "pros" and show us ur bulld and gear then i will do.
Btw to all idiots that call me noob if u are pros u may be posting guides instead of bothering others... And only Trs can talk about Trs nothing is absolute...
@cesuke, I'm not sure how new you are to the community, but not only should you beat gwfs right now.. Under no circumstances should any gwf kill you with the current situation of both classes ... With all the defensive points in game right now , it's 100% impossible to die 1v1 vs anything as a tr; assuming you want to be considered competent
Bars need to be set every day, for the TR's in my guild that want to succeed , this is the very beginning of what's expected of them .
You might need to re-evaluate your skill level.
At any rate, Icy drake and I went out to icewind Dale to follow up on the numbers from shocking execution.
With first strike from an executioner path with 15000 power and max Str/CBA damage , highest hitting SE from full health was 93k, he'll testify that point. (no buff potions)
Next we did a baseline of tr vs gwf average shocking damage with current meta build
Average shocking damage. 45k
Lowest shocking, 30k Crit
Highest shocking, 59k crit
These are average damages from our 1v1s with two completely competent BiS players from their class .
He will testify to all these numbers.
With the current healing potions , water buffs, and life steal, the only reason why trs can kill a gwf right now is execessive AP gain and a snail mount. Otherwise our damage is laughable at best..
Me and Tardli were using duelist flurry on icy drake and were killing ourselves before it damaged him.
I advise the community to do proper research before posting balance recommendations.
In conclusion , the vast, if not absolute majority of all shockings that exceed 100k damage are because of outside buffs or the fact that your life % was below a certain threshold to activate 2 certain executioner feats... But in that regard, you would've been dead anyways.
Anyone that wants to replicate these results, and show different results to me first hand, comment or send me an in game/forum private message.
Question:
as stated in another post, i met a elven-wearing MI TR entirely build over SE on no-dodge classes (GWF-SW) from stealth. Can't say the build, probably executioner but not sure. I'm not BiS but wearing full burning gear, 25% DR base, countless scars (makes no difference but still...), 100k HP and so on (should make no difference when talking about SE damage btw), wearing Soulforged and lathander set (Negation should not reduce SE btw, right?).
He could consistently one-shot me from stealth (mythic Devoted Sigil), most likely first strike, and if i remember well something like 19k power or so, hitting for anything between 110k-125k SE.
Must note it was a troll build in PvE gear, but still, 4k power should not make him go from 93k to 125k...? What am i missing here? May be the Exec feat (don't remember the name) that doubles your power rating when hitting from stealth? It's the only explanation i can give.
BTW i stated it many times before: the problem is not the damage itself, but rather the fact that SWs-GWFs' mechanics make no difference when it comes to SE:
I can dodge SE if i'm ready and lag doesn't f*ck me up on my DC and HR, but obviously when i'm playing my GWF or SW i have no defense over that hit. My biggest problem with SE is that when a TR faces a GWF or a SW, he does not need to time or aim his SE, AT ALL. Just need to press one button (oh yeah, and slot first strike in the passive slot), and then, well...profit.
For example, GWF damage or SW damage at full stacks/ sparks is insane, but you can dodge it.
The problem here is not that the guy could land a 125k SE on me (well, that's a bit too much still even for a TR daily...), but that it was the same if he hit me during sprint or unstoppable. When a CW uses Ice knife, for example, if he hits me clean, it hurts a lot. But if i time my sprint or unstoppable and anticipate his move, i can "punish" him.
So the issue is not the damage but rather the complete lack of a counter on SWs/GWFs...
listen piercing damage is lame. No one is denying it. However with the meta going on right now, TR does garbage damage in pvp without it. You can't just say remove it without some big changes both to how TR does damage and also tweaking other classes. (GWF cancelling animations cannot be intended)
heck, i would prefer they fix all the broken enchantments and boons first to see how things stand.
anyway i have a feeling there is a big balance patch coming which will again totally revamp classes and playstyles. At this point, i am not optimistic that it will bring real balance but more likely make it more unbalanced.
In which everything resides within a TR balancing thread .
I recommend someone creates a new thread with very clear balancing recommendations with math to back it up, to say the least this thread ressembles a pug r@pe complaint
This issue and more will become apparent since they removed diminishing returns on the majority of abilities, in truth, the diminishing returns needed a tighter grip.. (Using certain techniques, I can obtain 200% CDR reduction which basically means no cooldowns, this alone is broken beyond comprehension in the realm of balance.) That way gear gap wouldn't be relevant
Unless they want to implement glory purchased BiS rental gear that only activates in PvP!
listen piercing damage is lame. No one is denying it. However with the meta going on right now, TR does garbage damage in pvp without it. You can't just say remove it without some big changes both to how TR does damage and also tweaking other classes. (GWF cancelling animations cannot be intended)
heck, i would prefer they fix all the broken enchantments and boons first to see how things stand.
anyway i have a feeling there is a big balance patch coming which will again totally revamp classes and playstyles. At this point, i am not optimistic that it will bring real balance but more likely make it more unbalanced.
I Agree here my friend. TR damage needs a boost.
Honestly the HUGE crux of the TR is stealth. Its just like the GWF used to be, it started ultra tanky with low damage, then they buffed our damage (mod 2) with the introduction of IV and allowing us to mark targets. Then mod 3 buffed damage MORE as Destroyer got buffed (mod 3) which gave us a SUPER tanky character who also has insane damage.
So the TR is at a point where in order for the class to succeed the TR will have to take a "step back" in the utility and defensive capability of stealth. BEFORE we start flaming and going down different paths, I WANT TRs to play like an assassin. But as stealth is currently, TRs will NEVER be given good damage again (look at mod 5) because the class is already extremely hard to kill when it wants to be.
So if I were a TR, I would try and "rally" the TRs behind a "defensive" stealth nerf combined with an offensive bonus. Heck this could even be in the way of just re-working executioner and leave sabo as the "survival" tree with low damage.
Here is just an IDEA of what I would do if I were a DEV for balance: 1) Executioner capstone: Shadow of Demise - Feat changed to a pure 50% critical severity boost for 5 second after entering stealth.
2) First Strike: - Feat changed to apply bonus damage on the first attack after LEAVING stealth. This effect does not stack.
3) Shocking Execution: Now respects DR & tenacity (about a 70-80% damage nerf). Damage increased ~100% base (which is still a net damage nerf). And THEN instead of SE granting AP back if under X% HP. Treat this like Anvil of Doom (GF ability) in that SE now deals DOUBLE damage to targets UNDER 40% HP (As Exec it would be further boosted by that feat as well). Also keep in mind that this would be able to STACK with the 50% damage bonus from Shadow of Demise (something that it currently cant synergize with because of the wonky feat) so it would end up being a massive damage buff against targets <40% damage and basically guarantee the kill. Other abilities can now be brought back into the fold, like Lashing blade too that would now get a good damage boost from stealth.
If you stealth ed and got SoD buff for 5 seconds and immediately were pulled out of stealth you would now have SoD + First Strike as a damage bonus which is normally OP except you lose 100% crit chance so its fair there as well... Or you could do Lashing Blade with SoD buff and THEN First Strike + SoD Shocking them if under 40% HP for a 2 hit kill...
So all in all you would have a very high burst damage machine but it still retains fairly good balance. This would be a great first start to balancing TR.
Also Pando83, youll probably have a heart attack hearing this but Sicarius (@dersidius) can beat every GWF from our guild (including IcyDrake, Lancer, myself, you name it).
We too did testing in OW without any buffs. Your numbers are not far off from the average SE (only AFTER being hit with Feytouched btw)
The big difference is a TR can whittle a GWFs HP down while he takes no damage it takes skill and dodging but as a GWF facing a good TR, he can choose when and when not to get hit. Combined with things like Smoke bomb (used AFTER an unstoppable) makes a GWF lose all of his damage stacks.
Use ITC to avoid big damage bursts.
Shadow Strike to re-stealth. Combined with Shadowy Opp + LOL set and CoS spam, its pretty HAMSTER how much a TR can do to you and you cant do to him.
Or if you REALLY wanna troll GWFs cause you cant play Sabo well, just roll Exec spec. Its a joke.
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icyphishMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,255Arc User
Thats because u dont know anything about other class and hardly your own. In all 6 matches you hardly survived more than 20 seconds in every match pretty much says it.
Like Ayroux said, GWF should have Almost No Chance beating a good TR, and judging by all ur pretty R12s and trascendent enchantments u have a lot of skill and knowledge to pickup.
My suggestion is, dont talk HAMSTER on stuffs you dont even know cus u might offend people without realizing it. I am not gonna even bother commenting on how bad u r cus I am sure a lot of 3k players from my guild would have no problem taking u down.
@schietindebux i can beat many players... Even 1 hit killed many ppl but he is on BiS with the Lions Mane armor and Overload enchants... I understand he beats me but i had no chance... Now if to be a pro i must build defensive... I own PVP many Times but is sure that they was undergeared ppl. U may see the match to get a real impression and btw u hav a Rogue with high IL ?
Warlock community made tons of threads and ideas to improve situation, about lack if mitigating big Hits But most of them stopped their efforts getting an ear , and lots if them quit or left the game by now Cryptic is far to slow in reacting to all these balance issues, takes them 24 month to fix little problems
@dersidius No ofense to you either, Sicarius, but most TRs doing "1 shots", usually have more than 15k on Power... Mind if you test your S.E. with that amount of power and rec a video??
(BTW, i must apology to you for now due i do not have enough time to rec the "confirm hit" video for now. Mind if i record it next weekend?)
1 shots only come without getting hit with fey, using vorpal as well as first strike + SE. Even then itll do about 90-100k So past that, your gonna need full pots.
But MOST pvp games youll also get buffs from other players as well as the target wont be at full HP too...
We did play around with weapon swapping a fey buff to a vorpal + First Strike.
Or the other way to guarantee a 1 shot is to fire wheel + first strike + vorpal + SE (but then you have SE up not as often).
But the AVERAGE SE (without Feydebuff) was in the 70k range. With debuff it dropped to like 50kish (just rough average) and thats also without first strike.
I mean thats really the only troll thing about the TR atm. First Strike and SE piercing DR. I guess the other would be the SoD DoT but thats just a bad game design IMO.
Like mentioned in an earlier post, the damage difference is related to
A ) buff pots
B ) your health % at the time
C ) fire wheel can obviously increase damage
D ) could be buffed by a different class
E ) you could be debuffed by a different class
Pvp is not a controlled enviornment, what I relayed to you is as close to control as possible and is why the numbers vary.
If you want we can try to recreate whenever your free in IWD
And I'd agree on the lack of counter arguement, but shouldn't we adjust gwf and sw then, instead of tr?
One suggestion @ayroux had for gwf is the addition of a parry mechanic when gwfs shift but don't move anywhere
Would function like a block perhaps , but eat up stamina at a different rate
A) Ddidn't look at that. Never used pots so i'm not used to care about them. As long as i can "fight", i'm fine even if my enemy comes at me filled up with drugs. 100% HP, so no executioner feat "enemy under X% HP" was kicking in. He was purposefully waiting for me as soon as i was coming out of the spawn, with SE ready thanks to Mythic devoted sigil and the very unique "get a SE for free if you kill an enemy with it" mechanic. May be at start a couple of SE he dropped on me were while i was under 70% HP (tier 4 exec feat or so), but later in the match he purposefully started to target either me or the SW for easy 1-shot kills. C) No Wheel, he was using mythic DC sigil to "spam" SE on defenseless classes. A 123k SE can be countered only by BiS GWFs/SWs i believe, since you need more HP than that and a fast healing/ recovery. D) and E): No other classes around. Honestly, his team mates were fighting on another node since their team was losing. He was on the other side of the map, just waiting for the chance to oneshot either me or the SW in out team. Other than that, he was a very poor player. I would sprint everytime and he would hit me during sprint everytime. But i just did it for the lulz/ try to get out of range. Obviously, didn't work.
I'm on you on that: if SW/GWF get a counter, like a working shift mechanic on par with other classes' dodges when it comes to SE/ piercing damage, then i'm fine.
I've nothing against "being hit hard" or losing by a more skilled/ geared enemy. I'm used to fight enemies with 500-1k higher iLvL than me. I know perfectly well the shortcomings of my choice of gear (soulforged+lathander set in place of negation+ eLoL set, T.Terror in place of T.Fey).
I have a problem when i consistently outplay a TR spotting him, keeping him pressured, or timing my unstoppable/ sprint on his daily, and it makes no difference cause he can drop monster damage on my head with 100% chance to hit me at full force. I'm working on my HP, bought a wheel now and will work to counter this myself eventually (thanks to Icy precious advices and help, with his knowledge of BiS GWF gameplay), but i'd prefer, as stated previously, if the devs fixed this..."interaction" between SWs/ GWFs and SE, buffing other abilities of the TR class. I find it the most "wrong" mechanic along with OP "immunities" in PvP (note when i say mechanic i'm not talking about overall balance of the classes, but rather interactions where on class can spam one ability that the other classes cannot counter in any way).
@Ayroux: nah i'm not surprised. Very experienced TRs are very hard to catch and GWF class has perhaps the worst mechanics when it comes to landing powers. Which means the life steal part of a BiS GWF healing is removed, which is a huge hit on GWF survivability at BiS levels, leaving only unstoppable temp HPs and wheel to self-heal. So pretty much a GWF can hardly hit the enemy and self-heal less.
On a side note: one thing i noticed using PPF+ enchant is that when you use hidden daggers in combo with Plaguefire, you can see a clear blue spark in the spot where you hit the stealth TR. This allows you to keep them pressured more easily, tracking them with a AoE daggers attack, using the PF blue spark as a "detector". Other enchants don't have a noticeable effect, expecially Fey and Terror. Unfortunately, the PF enchant itself is HAMSTER. If working decently, it would be a good counter to perma TRs with both DoT damage to drain stealth and visual effect to detect them with HD AoE cone.
One build i always wanted to try is a high AP gain Swordmaster to "spam" daily and steel defense 5s immunity to damage. With a mythic DC sigil, high recovery, flail snail mount, AP gain legendary neck artifact, might work against a SE spamming TR and to increase survivability, may be as a sentinel build? Always thought it was the only way to make sentinel "tank" more effective/ survivable. Did any of you guys ever test this?
So... The Rogues that own u are perma-stealth CoS Spammers... And SE build ? .... I think the only thing that must be deleted from game is perma-stealth... And DevSig well all can use ir... Btw u complain for a Daily 80k damage... What is the damage of ur Encounters and Autoattacks ?
Man first own me then sh*t for the mouth as u always do... I know u are proud cause ur husband @icyphish owned me but it was a 1 vs 1 in a small area... 1 vs 1 just proves what class need a nerf and is clear what it is... And if u dont care about my opinion why always tag me or talk about me? I even realize you and ur husband exist until u start talking to me... Talking about me and etc...
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
And that's a wrap folks. Nothing left to see here.
Flaming and/or Trolling You may not post content which contains insults to other users or Perfect World Entertainment Staff, are specifically made to create undue discontent on the forums, disturbances in forum threads, pick fights or otherwise promote unfriendly conversation...to the extreme.
Comments
you need a buff, most TR´s don´t
question of skill/build and expierience in your case, nothing else
how long do you play this game
here xbox 21.08.2015
here some GG match mod 7
endless list, show me any vid from a PVP warlock like this, "life steal is fun" should be their domain
and i am not interested at all in watching any video of your fights vs each other, it was too predictable how its gonna end
you vs a skilled PVP pro
Bars need to be set every day, for the TR's in my guild that want to succeed , this is the very beginning of what's expected of them .
You might need to re-evaluate your skill level.
At any rate, Icy drake and I went out to icewind Dale to follow up on the numbers from shocking execution.
With first strike from an executioner path with 15000 power and max Str/CBA damage , highest hitting SE from full health was 93k, he'll testify that point. (no buff potions)
Next we did a baseline of tr vs gwf average shocking damage with current meta build
Average shocking damage. 45k
Lowest shocking, 30k Crit
Highest shocking, 59k crit
These are average damages from our 1v1s with two completely competent BiS players from their class .
He will testify to all these numbers.
With the current healing potions , water buffs, and life steal, the only reason why trs can kill a gwf right now is execessive AP gain and a snail mount. Otherwise our damage is laughable at best..
Me and Tardli were using duelist flurry on icy drake and were killing ourselves before it damaged him.
I advise the community to do proper research before posting balance recommendations.
In conclusion , the vast, if not absolute majority of all shockings that exceed 100k damage are because of outside buffs or the fact that your life % was below a certain threshold to activate 2 certain executioner feats... But in that regard, you would've been dead anyways.
Anyone that wants to replicate these results, and show different results to me first hand, comment or send me an in game/forum private message.
But take this into consideration
The majority of The game is about to gain an addiotnal 32k HP for free due to a guild boon.
So even if the terribly inconsistent 100k SEa were something you wanted to build against.. With the 32K extra hp, the potion buff, and the now 50-60k PvP health pots.. It definantly would no longer be an issue.
In all honesty it should be vice versa, the cw wearing cloth should not under any circumstances have an umitigateable dr later... Gwfs however , being so that it's their only means of escaping damage, I'd be more privy to accept.
In addition to that, they need to remove the Dr layers from a lot of classes, and re-add them to the AC or armor class stat...that stat adds .5% Dr per point over 10, and for that reason alone is why you see very little difference at base stats in the defensive difference between multiple classes
They need to see re-weight and add more obtainable stats to the AC attribute in order to passively separate squishes vs tanks or bruisers
In fact AC should be the biggest addative to damage resistance in general in the game
@clonkyo1 plz dont talk if u dont know... My build is not oriented to Action Point gain... And overall i dont use one-move builds like most pvp "pros" and show us ur bulld and gear then i will do.
Btw to all idiots that call me noob if u are pros u may be posting guides instead of bothering others... And only Trs can talk about Trs nothing is absolute...
as stated in another post, i met a elven-wearing MI TR entirely build over SE on no-dodge classes (GWF-SW) from stealth. Can't say the build, probably executioner but not sure.
I'm not BiS but wearing full burning gear, 25% DR base, countless scars (makes no difference but still...), 100k HP and so on (should make no difference when talking about SE damage btw), wearing Soulforged and lathander set (Negation should not reduce SE btw, right?).
He could consistently one-shot me from stealth (mythic Devoted Sigil), most likely first strike, and if i remember well something like 19k power or so, hitting for anything between 110k-125k SE.
Must note it was a troll build in PvE gear, but still, 4k power should not make him go from 93k to 125k...?
What am i missing here? May be the Exec feat (don't remember the name) that doubles your power rating when hitting from stealth? It's the only explanation i can give.
BTW i stated it many times before: the problem is not the damage itself, but rather the fact that SWs-GWFs' mechanics make no difference when it comes to SE:
I can dodge SE if i'm ready and lag doesn't f*ck me up on my DC and HR, but obviously when i'm playing my GWF or SW i have no defense over that hit.
My biggest problem with SE is that when a TR faces a GWF or a SW, he does not need to time or aim his SE, AT ALL. Just need to press one button (oh yeah, and slot first strike in the passive slot), and then, well...profit.
For example, GWF damage or SW damage at full stacks/ sparks is insane, but you can dodge it.
The problem here is not that the guy could land a 125k SE on me (well, that's a bit too much still even for a TR daily...), but that it was the same if he hit me during sprint or unstoppable.
When a CW uses Ice knife, for example, if he hits me clean, it hurts a lot. But if i time my sprint or unstoppable and anticipate his move, i can "punish" him.
So the issue is not the damage but rather the complete lack of a counter on SWs/GWFs...
heck, i would prefer they fix all the broken enchantments and boons first to see how things stand.
anyway i have a feeling there is a big balance patch coming which will again totally revamp classes and playstyles. At this point, i am not optimistic that it will bring real balance but more likely make it more unbalanced.
Like mentioned in an earlier post, the damage difference is related to
A ) buff pots
B ) your health % at the time
C ) fire wheel can obviously increase damage
D ) could be buffed by a different class
E ) you could be debuffed by a different class
Pvp is not a controlled enviornment, what I relayed to you is as close to control as possible and is why the numbers vary.
If you want we can try to recreate whenever your free in IWD
And I'd agree on the lack of counter arguement, but shouldn't we adjust gwf and sw then, instead of tr?
One suggestion @ayroux had for gwf is the addition of a parry mechanic when gwfs shift but don't move anywhere
Would function like a block perhaps , but eat up stamina at a different rate
I recommend someone creates a new thread with very clear balancing recommendations with math to back it up, to say the least this thread ressembles a pug r@pe complaint
This issue and more will become apparent since they removed diminishing returns on the majority of abilities, in truth, the diminishing returns needed a tighter grip.. (Using certain techniques, I can obtain 200% CDR reduction which basically means no cooldowns, this alone is broken beyond comprehension in the realm of balance.) That way gear gap wouldn't be relevant
Unless they want to implement glory purchased BiS rental gear that only activates in PvP!
Honestly the HUGE crux of the TR is stealth. Its just like the GWF used to be, it started ultra tanky with low damage, then they buffed our damage (mod 2) with the introduction of IV and allowing us to mark targets. Then mod 3 buffed damage MORE as Destroyer got buffed (mod 3) which gave us a SUPER tanky character who also has insane damage.
So the TR is at a point where in order for the class to succeed the TR will have to take a "step back" in the utility and defensive capability of stealth. BEFORE we start flaming and going down different paths, I WANT TRs to play like an assassin. But as stealth is currently, TRs will NEVER be given good damage again (look at mod 5) because the class is already extremely hard to kill when it wants to be.
So if I were a TR, I would try and "rally" the TRs behind a "defensive" stealth nerf combined with an offensive bonus. Heck this could even be in the way of just re-working executioner and leave sabo as the "survival" tree with low damage.
Here is just an IDEA of what I would do if I were a DEV for balance:
1) Executioner capstone: Shadow of Demise
- Feat changed to a pure 50% critical severity boost for 5 second after entering stealth.
2) First Strike:
- Feat changed to apply bonus damage on the first attack after LEAVING stealth. This effect does not stack.
3) Shocking Execution:
Now respects DR & tenacity (about a 70-80% damage nerf). Damage increased ~100% base (which is still a net damage nerf). And THEN instead of SE granting AP back if under X% HP. Treat this like Anvil of Doom (GF ability) in that SE now deals DOUBLE damage to targets UNDER 40% HP (As Exec it would be further boosted by that feat as well). Also keep in mind that this would be able to STACK with the 50% damage bonus from Shadow of Demise (something that it currently cant synergize with because of the wonky feat) so it would end up being a massive damage buff against targets <40% damage and basically guarantee the kill. Other abilities can now be brought back into the fold, like Lashing blade too that would now get a good damage boost from stealth.
If you stealth ed and got SoD buff for 5 seconds and immediately were pulled out of stealth you would now have SoD + First Strike as a damage bonus which is normally OP except you lose 100% crit chance so its fair there as well... Or you could do Lashing Blade with SoD buff and THEN First Strike + SoD Shocking them if under 40% HP for a 2 hit kill...
So all in all you would have a very high burst damage machine but it still retains fairly good balance. This would be a great first start to balancing TR.
We too did testing in OW without any buffs. Your numbers are not far off from the average SE (only AFTER being hit with Feytouched btw)
The big difference is a TR can whittle a GWFs HP down while he takes no damage it takes skill and dodging but as a GWF facing a good TR, he can choose when and when not to get hit. Combined with things like Smoke bomb (used AFTER an unstoppable) makes a GWF lose all of his damage stacks.
Use ITC to avoid big damage bursts.
Shadow Strike to re-stealth. Combined with Shadowy Opp + LOL set and CoS spam, its pretty HAMSTER how much a TR can do to you and you cant do to him.
Or if you REALLY wanna troll GWFs cause you cant play Sabo well, just roll Exec spec. Its a joke.
Like Ayroux said, GWF should have Almost No Chance beating a good TR, and judging by all ur pretty R12s and trascendent enchantments u have a lot of skill and knowledge to pickup.
My suggestion is, dont talk HAMSTER on stuffs you dont even know cus u might offend people without realizing it. I am not gonna even bother commenting on how bad u r cus I am sure a lot of 3k players from my guild would have no problem taking u down.
Author of GWF Speed Demon PvP Build (Mod 11) <- Click to reveal the Speedy Beast! >:)
But most of them stopped their efforts getting an ear , and lots if them quit or left the game by now
Cryptic is far to slow in reacting to all these balance issues, takes them 24 month to fix little problems
But MOST pvp games youll also get buffs from other players as well as the target wont be at full HP too...
We did play around with weapon swapping a fey buff to a vorpal + First Strike.
Or the other way to guarantee a 1 shot is to fire wheel + first strike + vorpal + SE (but then you have SE up not as often).
But the AVERAGE SE (without Feydebuff) was in the 70k range. With debuff it dropped to like 50kish (just rough average) and thats also without first strike.
I mean thats really the only troll thing about the TR atm. First Strike and SE piercing DR. I guess the other would be the SoD DoT but thats just a bad game design IMO.
C) No Wheel, he was using mythic DC sigil to "spam" SE on defenseless classes. A 123k SE can be countered only by BiS GWFs/SWs i believe, since you need more HP than that and a fast healing/ recovery.
D) and E): No other classes around. Honestly, his team mates were fighting on another node since their team was losing. He was on the other side of the map, just waiting for the chance to oneshot either me or the SW in out team. Other than that, he was a very poor player. I would sprint everytime and he would hit me during sprint everytime. But i just did it for the lulz/ try to get out of range. Obviously, didn't work.
I'm on you on that: if SW/GWF get a counter, like a working shift mechanic on par with other classes' dodges when it comes to SE/ piercing damage, then i'm fine.
I've nothing against "being hit hard" or losing by a more skilled/ geared enemy. I'm used to fight enemies with 500-1k higher iLvL than me. I know perfectly well the shortcomings of my choice of gear (soulforged+lathander set in place of negation+ eLoL set, T.Terror in place of T.Fey).
I have a problem when i consistently outplay a TR spotting him, keeping him pressured, or timing my unstoppable/ sprint on his daily, and it makes no difference cause he can drop monster damage on my head with 100% chance to hit me at full force.
I'm working on my HP, bought a wheel now and will work to counter this myself eventually (thanks to Icy precious advices and help, with his knowledge of BiS GWF gameplay), but i'd prefer, as stated previously, if the devs fixed this..."interaction" between SWs/ GWFs and SE, buffing other abilities of the TR class. I find it the most "wrong" mechanic along with OP "immunities" in PvP (note when i say mechanic i'm not talking about overall balance of the classes, but rather interactions where on class can spam one ability that the other classes cannot counter in any way).
@Ayroux: nah i'm not surprised. Very experienced TRs are very hard to catch and GWF class has perhaps the worst mechanics when it comes to landing powers. Which means the life steal part of a BiS GWF healing is removed, which is a huge hit on GWF survivability at BiS levels, leaving only unstoppable temp HPs and wheel to self-heal. So pretty much a GWF can hardly hit the enemy and self-heal less.
On a side note: one thing i noticed using PPF+ enchant is that when you use hidden daggers in combo with Plaguefire, you can see a clear blue spark in the spot where you hit the stealth TR. This allows you to keep them pressured more easily, tracking them with a AoE daggers attack, using the PF blue spark as a "detector". Other enchants don't have a noticeable effect, expecially Fey and Terror. Unfortunately, the PF enchant itself is HAMSTER. If working decently, it would be a good counter to perma TRs with both DoT damage to drain stealth and visual effect to detect them with HD AoE cone.
One build i always wanted to try is a high AP gain Swordmaster to "spam" daily and steel defense 5s immunity to damage. With a mythic DC sigil, high recovery, flail snail mount, AP gain legendary neck artifact, might work against a SE spamming TR and to increase survivability, may be as a sentinel build? Always thought it was the only way to make sentinel "tank" more effective/ survivable.
Did any of you guys ever test this?
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