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Please remove piercing damage from Shocking Execution or...

zvieriszvieris Member Posts: 1,261 Arc User
edited June 2015 in PvP Discussion
Yes, this was suggested like a hundred times. Doesn't mean that the need hasn't passed. So either:

1) remove piercing damage from Shocking Execution
2) allow SWs and GWFs to mitigate its damage with Shadow Slip, Sprint, Unstoppable.

I don't know how many times this has to be posted before some appropriate action is taken.
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Comments

  • UnknownUnknown
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  • zvieriszvieris Member Posts: 1,261 Arc User
    raistlintao wrote: »
    What you suggested is non sense at all.
    Since most of TR's encounters are now dealing low damages compare with HP you have, remove SE damage result in only perm stealth/perm stun build can survived in PvP without any killing ability.
    Last patch already lower the piercing damage.

    Since Neverwinter is a DND game,
    If you want complete remove piercing damage, then add sneak damage and poison damage back to Rogers.
    And a barbarian shouldnt have such high survival ability.
    Remember, barbarian must suffer from temporary rage, which calle Determination in Neverwinter.

    TRs don't deal low damage at all. If you're hitting low then it's your own problem. I see undergeared TRs hitting SE for 55k and the geared ones hit for 75k+. It would be fine if I could mitigate the damage or avoid it with skill. But I can't do any of that. It goes trough DR, deflect, sprint, shadow slip, unstoppable and you're saying it's fine? If a GF can block it, why can't SWs and GWFs?

    And if you're talking about dnd then what about stealth being revealed the moment you attack or get attacked? What about perception? And by the way, GWF is NOT a barbarian.

    God, where do they come from these clueless TRs...
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  • zvieriszvieris Member Posts: 1,261 Arc User
    raistlintao wrote: »
    First, 55k and you die?
    No
    1 daily combine with several useless encounters you won't have problem at all. A Tr won't face a gwf unless overgear. Common scenario is gwf run away or Tr go back to stealth and run away.
    And please don't overstate the reality. A 3K Tr' se won't hit my DC over 50k.
    But if they can deal such damage with SE, they also lost piercing damage on cos and perm stealth. It's highly depends on build.
    55k and I'm dead, yes. Because what idiot would use it against a full HP target? Also, please show me a daily that hits for 55k post mitigation ever since Paladin's Divine Judgement was nerfed.
    raistlintao wrote: »
    In additional, you can use your Avalanche of Steel to avoid.
    Use daily to trade daily, problem?
    Yeah, because I can see SE coming from a mile away? One word: stealth.
    raistlintao wrote: »
    "about stealth being revealed the moment you attack or get attacked"
    The reality is any encounter will break the stealth, but let's go further on this one,
    In DND, stealth has unlimited time before attack, and not to mention re stealth in battle, since it won't work in our game, so the cryptic implemented refill encounters and can be maintain stealth with 3~4 cos. Fair trade.
    But even still, Tr's encounters are badly designed due to the HP players have.

    Similar situation also on CW, which need to buff damage but lower the defense.
    Any encounter? As far as I remember shadow strike and bait and switch don't reveal you, the contrary, they refill your stealth.

    So you want to talk about DnD stealth huh? What about the fact that you need a perfect cover or to be completely out of sight to re-enter stealth? What about the fact that you need at least a minimal cover to remain hidden when an opponent is close? What about the fact that your movement greatly affects stealth (in NW TRs are sprinting)? What about the fact that the more opponents there are, the higher chance you'll be instantly revealed? What about perception check available to everyone that will reveal you? And etc etc.

    So please, implement DnD stealth for all I care. But if you don't, stop comparing them. You're just fooling yourself.
    raistlintao wrote: »
    But gwf is barbarian or let's say close to barbarian' role, since determination and rage are same. Boost damage must has a weakness later.

    You don't like me to compare gwf and barbarian because you don't want same nerf goes on your classes, same as trs.

    Figher and Berserker are completely different classes. Also, Unstoppable only increases damage on Destroyer spec. So what are you talking about here?
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  • zvieriszvieris Member Posts: 1,261 Arc User
    So yeah, you'll totally ignore the 4th edition which this game was initially based on, huh? And defend something that's completely overpowered and can't be defended from by some classes. So yeah, not gonna bother replying to you, pathetic troll.
  • zvieriszvieris Member Posts: 1,261 Arc User
    magenubbie wrote: »
    zvieris wrote: »
    55k and I'm dead, yes. Because what idiot would use it against a full HP target? Also, please show me a daily that hits for 55k post mitigation ever since Paladin's Divine Judgement was nerfed.
    55k isn't that high. I can do that much with Ice Knife and the proper passives slotted. And I'm nowhere close to BiS.
    I said post mitigation. Please l2read at least that.
  • quspivquspiv Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,087 Arc User
    Plz make stealth permanent no matter what, because f.ck logic. It's an assassin, it's supposed to kill not tickle and that's the only daily which does noticeable dmg.
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  • zvieriszvieris Member Posts: 1,261 Arc User
    magenubbie wrote: »
    zvieris wrote: »
    So yeah, you'll totally ignore the 4th edition which this game was initially based on, huh? And defend something that's completely overpowered and can't be defended from by some classes. So yeah, not gonna bother replying to you, pathetic troll.
    Stop sprouting nonsense. I can't even see your earlobes anymore due to the cucumbers growing out of your ears. The foundation of NW is DnD4, yes. But they don't follow it to the letter and never will. The discussion above shows enough examples of why that is. Some things just don't translate well to a real live game. Unfortuntely Cryptic fails in finding the right balance between having the DnD class features and making them work in a manner that's not OP.

    That said, it's quite common for stealthed characters to have their movement slowed. But it would be silly to give TRs infinite stealth in return unless any and all attack would pop said TR out of it. That might work well in PnP games, but would be totally OP in NW. That's the same thing as giving GFs unlimited block. It simply wouldn't work. You'd have to add a perception roll every X seconds while a TR is in X range of beings intelligent enough to have a perception roll at the very least. And people would then complain about dropping stealth at the most inopportune moments and demand it gets changed.

    What the HAMSTER are you talking about? Have you even bothered to check the discussion above? It's the raistlintao tard who thinks this is dnd. So I showed him how stealth functions in dnd 4th edition and why I wouldn't mind it if it actually worked that way.

    So stick those cucumbers between your cheeks and stop spouting nonsense if you can't even bother reading a few posts above. Thank you.
  • rayrdanrayrdan Member Posts: 5,410 Arc User
    Ibs hits as hard as shocking execution.
    Savage advantage can do wonder to.
    Remove the piercing if you want but the base damage cant stay at 10k then.
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  • murthag1990murthag1990 Member Posts: 71 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    Piercing dmg was ok before they changed SE at its core.The devs should change it back to 200% dmg based on targets health missing thats what I call shocking execution and i would be fine with it but now top tr's managed to nearly "1 shot" me with 12k power and a feytouch thats a bit too much in my opinion. I dont mind dying against a good tr but the fight should not end with only 1 ds ,1SE and a view cos. Another problem is you can delay SE with shift so you can force your enemy to dodge until he's out of stamina and land SE 100%. it would be another nerf but imagine 12k power, 10k rec, feytouch and elvenbattle is a massive combo on a TR when you can still "dazehit" people with SE. With this amount of rec you have insane cd's (50%) on dazing strike, itc, ss and an additional 25% ap gain.

    Edit: and don't forget the 15% recharge speed from knifes edge and 10% from shady preparations
    Post edited by murthag1990 on
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  • quspivquspiv Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,087 Arc User
    clonkyo1 wrote: »
    First at all: My eyes!!!! what an ugly forum... for God's sake...


    Second: S.E. only needs 1 more nerf to be balanced: The distance on which it can be activated and its "on hit range". 30' plus some kind of "jump towards over your enemy to stay close to land Lashing Blade for free after S.E."???? really?? why not make it 60' like Lunging Strike?? Do not be that the target can have a minimal chance to avoid it as it happends with other encounters from other classes. That distance must be toned down to 5' at max range and make it a pure melee hit. This way, SW and GWF will have a chance to avoid (by outrange it) it AND TRs must go THAT close to hit with it instead of being a "free ranged kill daily".

    SE have pretty slow animation, you can also hear specific sound which makes it easier to dodge or use defensive CD's (either your own or the ones from artifacts). TR can be dpsed and cc'd while flying with SE.
  • kweassakweassa Member Posts: 2,390 Arc User
    quspiv wrote: »
    SE have pretty slow animation, you can also hear specific sound which makes it easier to dodge or use defensive CD's (either your own or the ones from artifacts). TR can be dpsed and cc'd while flying with SE.


    1. Only dumb TRs use SE while visible
    2. Only dumb TRs use up SE when it is about to miss
    3. Being CCd during SE is a mere delay in the inevitable
    4. All the audible warnings don't mean squat for SWs and GWFs


    A. The power needs to rever to the older mods where it used to deal damage based on HP left. Leave the max possible damage as it is, but tie it in with enemy HP like in the older mods.

    B. Reduce the power range down to 20' from the current, but as compensation increase activation speed by 30%

    C. Get rid of the "one free max AP recharge when you kill with SE"


    This should make it fine.
    Stop making excuses. Be a man.
    If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
    Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
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  • pando83pando83 Member Posts: 2,564 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    The problem with SE is SW and gwf can't dodge or mitigate it. You sprint, shadow slip, go unstoppable, doesn't matter.
    TR press one button and profit. It's with no doubt not balanced and quite cheesy. TRs just press the button when facing a gwf or SW. No need to time it. Skill-less mechanic at its best. Could teach a monkey to hit a button when he sees the daily icon lighting up.
    It's a 'free win' button TRs can use when facinga sw or gwf.
    But it goes for any piercing damage like a 54k wheel hit i got on my gwf in burning gear and maxed tenacity...

    Piercing damage should pierce base DR but respect tenacity. Everything in pvp should get mitigated by tenacity, period. With no exception.
    Also, SW/GWF dr from shift should at least be unmitigable/ unpierceable. Considering we have other classes with full immunity dodges that must be used for defense only, while gwfs must use shift for both gap closing and defense, and have slower stamina regeneration too. Would also be a start to balance SW with other classes, giving more proactive survivability.

    So at least a TR using SE must time the hit when a gwf/SW is not shifting. Instead of closing his eyes and press the button for a 100% sure outcome.
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  • indro100indro100 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 67 Arc User
    People say you can hear them coming, but we have someone in the guild that plays this game but can't hear anything because she is deaf... don't assume that everyone can hear something because you can hear it....
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  • bvirabvira Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 385 Arc User
    +1 for the change. It's really unfair for SW and GWF.
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  • pando83pando83 Member Posts: 2,564 Arc User
    metalldjt wrote: »
    SE is ok where it is, watch the video, my problem is not the SE itself, its the surviability of the TR, he can have 100k SE , if he can't take that amount of damage in a 1 -2 min fight, it's clearly that deflect severity should be nerfed.

    You say it's okay that a TR can press one button and hit with a full damage SE of sometimes 70-80k with no chance for GWFs and SWs to defend against it, since unstoppable DR, tenacity, shift DR and everything those classes can attempt to use it 100% non-effective vs shocking execution. Good. Nice. I want that too. I want an undodgeable 70k savage advance. It means that you can dodge roll, ITC, all with perfect timing, have 500% tenacity, doesn't matter. You will eat that 70k and all i need to do is press a button.

    Can't wait to try it :D

  • greenkrickettgreenkrickett Member Posts: 85 Arc User
    I have had SE 1-shot me on my TR many times while mine does HAMSTER damage so I dont know how they getting those numbers but for me it doesnt do any real damage never even killed a CW in a SE at or above 50% health
  • shrewguyshrewguy Member Posts: 150 Arc User
    Ugg that guy again complaining about deflect severity... So not the issue. Deflect severity is fine.

    Anyway, most 'nerf TR' threads I read tend to sound like people just whineing because they lost, but this one actually has a valid point. Shocking exercution simply isn't fair to GWFs and Warlocks since they have no defence against it at all. (Well GWFs actually do, but I'll get to that later.) Making the sprint actually reduce damage on Shocking execution would definitly be a good idea, it still lets the TR have a chance of landing full damage if he's smart and waits for the moment they have no stamina, but allows for some level of counter play.

    Just flat out nerfing Shocking execution would be a bad idea, for most classes its fine, it hurts, but its dodgable, removing the piercing effect would likely nerf it back down into uslessness. The simple truth is, people don't like burst damage, not because its unbalanced, but because it makes them FEEL helpless. And its that feeling of helplessness than makes people rage and call for nerfs even if they arn't warrented.

    Also Warlocks are in desperate need of some buffs right now, buffing their sprint resistance to be none mitigatable would be a start.

    Oh right, and as I mentioned earlier GWFs can actually dodge Shocking executin, both Mighty Leab and Punishing Charge have dodge frames on them that can let you dodge shocking execution.. It is possible for GWFs to dodge, but realistically, who would every use those abilities?

    So.. yeah I support the idea of letting Warlock and GWF sprint damage reduction reduce piercing damage.
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