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Please remove piercing damage from Shocking Execution or...
zvieris
Member Posts: 1,261 Arc User
Yes, this was suggested like a hundred times. Doesn't mean that the need hasn't passed. So either:
1) remove piercing damage from Shocking Execution
2) allow SWs and GWFs to mitigate its damage with Shadow Slip, Sprint, Unstoppable.
I don't know how many times this has to be posted before some appropriate action is taken.
1) remove piercing damage from Shocking Execution
2) allow SWs and GWFs to mitigate its damage with Shadow Slip, Sprint, Unstoppable.
I don't know how many times this has to be posted before some appropriate action is taken.
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Comments
TRs don't deal low damage at all. If you're hitting low then it's your own problem. I see undergeared TRs hitting SE for 55k and the geared ones hit for 75k+. It would be fine if I could mitigate the damage or avoid it with skill. But I can't do any of that. It goes trough DR, deflect, sprint, shadow slip, unstoppable and you're saying it's fine? If a GF can block it, why can't SWs and GWFs?
And if you're talking about dnd then what about stealth being revealed the moment you attack or get attacked? What about perception? And by the way, GWF is NOT a barbarian.
God, where do they come from these clueless TRs...
Yeah, because I can see SE coming from a mile away? One word: stealth.
Any encounter? As far as I remember shadow strike and bait and switch don't reveal you, the contrary, they refill your stealth.
So you want to talk about DnD stealth huh? What about the fact that you need a perfect cover or to be completely out of sight to re-enter stealth? What about the fact that you need at least a minimal cover to remain hidden when an opponent is close? What about the fact that your movement greatly affects stealth (in NW TRs are sprinting)? What about the fact that the more opponents there are, the higher chance you'll be instantly revealed? What about perception check available to everyone that will reveal you? And etc etc.
So please, implement DnD stealth for all I care. But if you don't, stop comparing them. You're just fooling yourself.
Figher and Berserker are completely different classes. Also, Unstoppable only increases damage on Destroyer spec. So what are you talking about here?
What the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> are you talking about? Have you even bothered to check the discussion above? It's the raistlintao tard who thinks this is dnd. So I showed him how stealth functions in dnd 4th edition and why I wouldn't mind it if it actually worked that way.
So stick those cucumbers between your cheeks and stop spouting nonsense if you can't even bother reading a few posts above. Thank you.
Savage advantage can do wonder to.
Remove the piercing if you want but the base damage cant stay at 10k then.
Edit: and don't forget the 15% recharge speed from knifes edge and 10% from shady preparations
Deadpool // HR
Shakur // Tr
SE have pretty slow animation, you can also hear specific sound which makes it easier to dodge or use defensive CD's (either your own or the ones from artifacts). TR can be dpsed and cc'd while flying with SE.
1. Only dumb TRs use SE while visible
2. Only dumb TRs use up SE when it is about to miss
3. Being CCd during SE is a mere delay in the inevitable
4. All the audible warnings don't mean squat for SWs and GWFs
A. The power needs to rever to the older mods where it used to deal damage based on HP left. Leave the max possible damage as it is, but tie it in with enemy HP like in the older mods.
B. Reduce the power range down to 20' from the current, but as compensation increase activation speed by 30%
C. Get rid of the "one free max AP recharge when you kill with SE"
This should make it fine.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
TR press one button and profit. It's with no doubt not balanced and quite cheesy. TRs just press the button when facing a gwf or SW. No need to time it. Skill-less mechanic at its best. Could teach a monkey to hit a button when he sees the daily icon lighting up.
It's a 'free win' button TRs can use when facinga sw or gwf.
But it goes for any piercing damage like a 54k wheel hit i got on my gwf in burning gear and maxed tenacity...
Piercing damage should pierce base DR but respect tenacity. Everything in pvp should get mitigated by tenacity, period. With no exception.
Also, SW/GWF dr from shift should at least be unmitigable/ unpierceable. Considering we have other classes with full immunity dodges that must be used for defense only, while gwfs must use shift for both gap closing and defense, and have slower stamina regeneration too. Would also be a start to balance SW with other classes, giving more proactive survivability.
So at least a TR using SE must time the hit when a gwf/SW is not shifting. Instead of closing his eyes and press the button for a 100% sure outcome.
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You say it's okay that a TR can press one button and hit with a full damage SE of sometimes 70-80k with no chance for GWFs and SWs to defend against it, since unstoppable DR, tenacity, shift DR and everything those classes can attempt to use it 100% non-effective vs shocking execution. Good. Nice. I want that too. I want an undodgeable 70k savage advance. It means that you can dodge roll, ITC, all with perfect timing, have 500% tenacity, doesn't matter. You will eat that 70k and all i need to do is press a button.
Can't wait to try it
Anyway, most 'nerf TR' threads I read tend to sound like people just whineing because they lost, but this one actually has a valid point. Shocking exercution simply isn't fair to GWFs and Warlocks since they have no defence against it at all. (Well GWFs actually do, but I'll get to that later.) Making the sprint actually reduce damage on Shocking execution would definitly be a good idea, it still lets the TR have a chance of landing full damage if he's smart and waits for the moment they have no stamina, but allows for some level of counter play.
Just flat out nerfing Shocking execution would be a bad idea, for most classes its fine, it hurts, but its dodgable, removing the piercing effect would likely nerf it back down into uslessness. The simple truth is, people don't like burst damage, not because its unbalanced, but because it makes them FEEL helpless. And its that feeling of helplessness than makes people rage and call for nerfs even if they arn't warrented.
Also Warlocks are in desperate need of some buffs right now, buffing their sprint resistance to be none mitigatable would be a start.
Oh right, and as I mentioned earlier GWFs can actually dodge Shocking executin, both Mighty Leab and Punishing Charge have dodge frames on them that can let you dodge shocking execution.. It is possible for GWFs to dodge, but realistically, who would every use those abilities?
So.. yeah I support the idea of letting Warlock and GWF sprint damage reduction reduce piercing damage.
They wont, cause they would've to make it instant cast then, since in 5 range you'd visible and get cc'd all the time. Unless they buff TR encounter dmg to GWF encounter dmg, so you can 2 shot tanks. (which is unlikely to happen, even if TR is an assassin classs)
When a TR can COS a GF to death and he has zero options to defend himself or retaliate then something it terribly terribly wrong.
I almost completely agree with this, I am am advocate of completely removing piercing dmg from all classes it never should have been included in pvp.
I also think TR survivability is a major problem but ITC is not the only culprit half of the problem is also dodge immunity, with how fast TRs can regen stm they can stay immune almost the entirety of the time they are out of stealth, the window of opportunity is simply not wide enough.
.5 seconds is not enough time if you consider latency as well, dodge immunity needs to be reduced to 1 second from the initiation of the dodge.
Yeah, basically, a GWF would slot, for example, mighty leap (not sure if punishing charge has immune frames...it didn't last time i used it but it was a LONG time ago, might have changed). With the sole purpose to dodge.
Now you lose one damage encounter (and it's not like CW shield on tab, it's just a chance to dodge using it with perfect timing). So, you go with which rotation? ML-FLS-IBS? Lose 40% damage from daggers. ML-HD-IBS? Lol good luck landing a direct IBS. ML-HD-...X? You lose IBS huge damage, expecially since it's feated on destro tree. Might use restoring strike in place of IBS but you still lose a lot of damage to have a chance to dodge SE vs TR.
Then you meet other classes and your rotation doesn't work. Like using ML on a GF, for example.
Simpler solution is make GWF and SW shift working like shield on tab for CW: a flat DR on a separate layer. Plus may be increase GWF stamina regen a bit since sprint must be used both for gap closing AND defense while other classes dodges are for defense only AND said classes have way faster stamina regeneration.
In fact, PvP GWFs need to go IV to be optimal cause threat rush is needed to fill the gap. With sprint alone a TR, or CW, or HR with marauder, would outrun you.
Also, threat rush is bugged and rubberbands you back even if you're not spamming it. *shrugs*
> you are just not gettin it?
> IMPOSSIBLE TO CATCH - like the name implies should only make you immune to CC, because they can't grab a hold of you, and not mitigating all of the incoming damage.
> with a recovery build (recharge speed) you will always have an itc up.
> when a TR uses ITC it will go straight into a cooldown, before they can use another itc it's a gap of 3seconds, in those 3seconds he can stay in stealth or use 1 of the 5 dodges.
> when in itc the deflect % is multipling with 1000x , because no one knows why 1000x, maybe you can tell me? and it also grants some DR.
> so tell me with a 75% deflect severity + ITC always up, tell me why a TR should facetank all of my damage?
> it's simple dude, you bring deflect severity down to 50% like other classes have, and next time when a TR will facetank in itc you atleast dealing some damage to them like you should and it's needed.
> we dont need to touch Shocking Execution, cause it's not broken, and it's not a 1-shot anymore, and more or less is needed for a TR in mod7:strongholds.
> SE is not a problem of RANGE, it's a problem that it shouldn't deal damage when you are out of sight, like he prepares to use a shocking on you and in the same moment a CW will repel you to abyss, in that moment you should be out of sight.
> again, it's not a problem of how much damage TR does,it's about how less damage he takes, because a dead TR will not have time to kill 10 players in a row and have 0 deaths in a match.
> if you played TR for 2 years please remember from where will the TR get his damage, like check the video above me fighting a BIS TR that can beat you with 2 fingers, the only damage dealer he has is SE, if you take that away, how can he clear me or anybody else?
This is maybe truth in case a tr plays mi/sab but this wont work for the other trees if you nerf the deflect severity, i really dont care about skullcrack/exe but others do. And yes SE is the only dmg source against you, a GWF but not every class has so much dr and even with the nerf of SO,cos still hurt other classes. The old SE was fine because you actually have to build ap with landing a df and get your enemy's hp down to 30%-40% to benefit from the 200%dmg increase based on health but things have changed now we have devoted and cloaks which generate too much ap without doing anything expect dodging/re-stealth/hiding. Just change it back like it was before and make the dmg based on HP missing so a scrub cant slot first strike and 1hit pugs and a top tr cant start a fight with 1 dazing strike + se and nearly "1shot" people. Tr's can also force you to dodge until you are out of stamina they can easy decline SE like a CW can do this with his ice knife by pressing shift.
Idk what to do about itc maybe it should only deflect dmg in the first 3 seconds or if you use it out of stealth it just gives you flat base dr. The rechargespeed is ridicilous but i believe you cant just nerf a whole stat just for one class.
Deadpool // HR
Shakur // Tr
You are the perfect reason TRs need a good big nerf. You being immune to damage (itc) stealth and good damage is BS and needs to be fixed. No clue why stealth doesn't break on damage stupid mechanic and one I hope they never reproduce in ANY other MMO.
Basically the gear fills-up the build issues.
Give both guys a soulforged. TR survivabilty will stay high. GWF survivability will drop a lot more.
It's the same as mod 5 intimidation gwf imho.
Current gwf is allowed to get serious only once half-dead.
The above BiS setup allows him to recover and benefit from his full power.
Other classes instead are effective indipendently from gear. Cause it's their mechanic that gives them most of their power.
GWF must always use gear to make their crappy mechanics work.
Problem is, not all gwfs are BiS and can reach the sweet spot where gear allows you to recover and benefit from your full power.
GWF isn't the only class gear dependent. Try playing TR without good weapon enchant and elol set. Let me know how much you can kill.
That said TR is not as dependent as those two, only class that might be would be SW, they are pretty weak till they get close to BiS then turn into monsters. Huge Shift for them, rather a large shift for GWF and GF once they hit that point as well. Little more so for GWF than GF.
Author of GWF Speed Demon PvP Build (Mod 11) <- Click to reveal the Speedy Beast! >:)
@metaldijit: i think you are wrong about SE. Huge damage must be dodgeable. BiS vorpal gwfs kill faster than any other class, but you can dodge and mitigate. SE is a flat monster damage gwfs and sws cannot dodge. Must respect tenacity since it's the one and only power ignoring it 100%. It's nonsense. Is't it enough to flat out ignore dr of the target?
Also: must be mitigated by shift dr on gwf and SW. If i dodge it with my shift or the TR hits me while i'm in unstoppable, he must get punished, not rewarded. It basic of skillful play.
Right now trs just have to pop DC artifact and have free monster damage in 10 seconds.
Yesterday i got to slot leap-daggers-RS fighting a TR doing that. Then change rotation when going on another node to face a paladin and a DC. Need a 3rd rotation for other gwfs, cws, sws, HR. Can go into details if you want.
That way i am able to have 100% efficiency on each situation.
And TR is the only class that basically need a rotation just to avoid nonsense "kill button" mechanic of SE on warlocks and gwf cause going unstoppable, sprinting, nothing works.
I am working my <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> off changing rotation and predicting the TR actions, while a TR must only pop artifact, wait 10s, press a button when fighting me. *shrugs*
Is it really too much to ask for a big nuke to be dodgeable and respect the pvp stat that mitigates all the damage sources?
Yeah. Comments like these explain a lot about your basic stance when it comes to these sort of things.
So basically your stance on an established mechanic is sorta like "if it exists, then it's not a bug, so it's no problem, no matter how much you dislike it." And of course, being the good, faithful benefactor of such mechanics and such classes with such mechanics everytime, you'll tend to just ignore, face away, or pretend to not see what's going on. "How dare they say my favroite XX class is overpowered?? Shame on them."
...
It almost makes me want to call to the devs to bring back EVERYTHING the TR "lost, because of some whiners who need to L2P", up to date.
Almost. But not quite. LOL.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
It's avoided often enough as it is by people who are paying attention, is one of very few ways to do any serious damage to the tankier classes in the game outside of Wheel, and the TR's former main source of piercing damage (Shadowy Opportunity) has already been nerfed to the ground with the 'bugfix' they put through in the recent patching.
It may gall you folks who aren't so good at PvP to read this, but the Trickster Rogue is currently one of the most balanced classes in the game. Outside of the Scoundrel tree needing a bit of a buff (they nerfed the dazing feats way too hard), no more changes need to be made to the class overall. Maybe ITC could be looked at in the near future, but the Trickster Rogue is not NEARLY as broken as armour enchantments like Negation (or the Paladin, with certain setups and builds that exploit to do damage or become nigh invulnerable -- they aren't completely broken, otherwise).
Many of you are comparing 'credit card warriors' who have Rank 12's and BiS gear with Transcendent enchantments to the rest of us. I can assure you that TRs die aplenty with gear they've had to work for, if they are played foolishly.
Unfortunately, Cryptic/PWE has turned this game into a battle of the dollar -- ANY class that's geared from paying AD farmers WILL have a huge advantage over their normal counterparts. That can't be helped. You want to be a serious top tier PvP player? Better break out that wallet, instead of complaining about the silly stuff you die to.
Find something new to gripe about. The TR's been nerfed more than enough.