ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
Editted out a few choice words in the title and post. I understand the frustration, but let's be more careful in our choice of language, especially in our titles
"Meanwhile in the moderator's lounge..."
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tassedethe13Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 806Arc User
This was a two-fold move: Reduce an AD sink, and punish those using them as an AD sink bypass. They won't admit it, but its pretty obvious on those two points.
They could have simply changed the number of GMOPs required and called it a day, but instead they chose to make a new item and reduce the cost of the others.
And the number of RP items keeps on growing...we are at around 145 now I think, with all the different states they can come in. All pointless also, as it would be just as easy to increase the quantity of a single drop instead of making a new, higher value stone. In the end, what is the difference between dropping 1 Aquamarine, or a stack of 15 white pearls? This is a major inventory sink, and its totally necessary.
Double X weekends are usually a precursor to bad news lately. I had a feeling something really bad was coming and sold just about everything I had of value before 2xRP. Made sense, leadership was finally tanked for good, I figured AD was just around the corner (like STO players told us it was).
At least I may finally be able to get beyond Rank 5 Enchantments!!!. I could never afford the Mark of Potency. The only higher ones I have are ones I got from Lockboxes the time I bought Keys.
And I am glad the Leadership Items are back on the gateway. I am still trying to level up Leadership to level 20, which is so hard with the max XP being 240. I was hoping at first that they had only taken the AD from the Gateway Tasks. Sorry to see them go in the game client.
I have 3 toons, all between 62 and 65, none have a high enough GS to go into the Epic Areas.
they COULD have made artifact equipment gain a percentage of the players XP with every kill (a la Torchlight) which is completely inventory-less ... but that doesnt sell Runic bags of holding
Bedlam: Creating chaos as a MI Exec TR Avariel Merilwen: Burn baby, MoF/Rene Aejun The Silver: Devoted to Healing, DevOP/Justice Mina Rosepetal: Super Natural, Pathfinder/Melee Frost: Benchwarmer, Soulbinder/Fury
I suspect most people sitting on stacks of GMoPs are looking to upgrade their enchant GEMS (Armor/Weapon Enhancements) and whatnot.
I also suspect this is WHY they are NOT changing the enchantment GEMs because of this. The change to GMoP/SMoP affects plain enchantments only. I really doubt people stacking GMoPs are going for rank 12 on all they dark enchantments, etc.
Boo hoo for whiners who once again try to find a loophole to enrich themselves while the folks who play it straight get screwed by the sky high prices created in a rigged economy. The AD farmers with leadership armies are exactly the same folks who are complaining about marks being artificially devalued.
Nothing's ever good enough for folks who already have everything, especially when it allows poor folks and new players to get a leg up in a completely neutral way.
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plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,220Arc User
At least I may finally be able to get beyond Rank 5 Enchantments!!!. I could never afford the Mark of Potency. The only higher ones I have are ones I got from Lockboxes the time I bought Keys.
And I am glad the Leadership Items are back on the gateway. I am still trying to level up Leadership to level 20, which is so hard with the max XP being 240. I was hoping at first that they had only taken the AD from the Gateway Tasks. Sorry to see them go in the game client.
I have 3 toons, all between 62 and 65, none have a high enough GS to go into the Epic Areas.
Not sure what you mean by "could never afford the Mark of Potency". The price of MOP in AH has been less than 5K AD for very long time (the AD store price 25K was basically pointless). You could afford 5K for praying alone. It was 3K DURING 2xRP. It was cheaper not to use P-ward because P-Ward is more expensive than MOP.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
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zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
edited September 2015
Moderator Notice: Some posts as of late have been edited or removed. Remember folks, if you're going to argue or debate something, do so respectfully and discuss the opinion/statement, do not attack the person. Please do not reply to this moderator notice, as doing so is not allowed. Thanks!
Nothing's ever good enough for folks who already have everything, especially when it allows poor folks and new players to get a leg up in a completely neutral way.
Only that the poor folks and new players are the ones who'll suffer most since they have to upgrade theirt stuff without benefits of leadership. Don't know if you noticed, but the reduction of upgrading cost is nowhere near to the reduction of AD income, therefore relatively more expensive now.
Nothing's ever good enough for folks who already have everything, especially when it allows poor folks and new players to get a leg up in a completely neutral way.
Only that the poor folks and new players are the ones who'll suffer most since they have to upgrade theirt stuff without benefits of leadership. Don't know if you noticed, but the reduction of upgrading cost is nowhere near to the reduction of AD income, therefore relatively more expensive now.
that's only for people who actually have leadership farms, most poor folks dont
Misfits
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darkstarcrashMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,382Arc User
Most people upgrading during the double-RP weekend -- including me -- did so with old, inflated AD largely gained from leadership. They wanted you to spend that excess AD on expensive GMoPs.
It did screw over people who spent rl money for zen.
Boo hoo for whiners who once again try to find a loophole to enrich themselves while the folks who play it straight get screwed by the sky high prices created in a rigged economy. The AD farmers with leadership armies are exactly the same folks who are complaining about marks being artificially devalued.
Nothing's ever good enough for folks who already have everything, especially when it allows poor folks and new players to get a leg up in a completely neutral way.
Yknow, i made a wall of text the first time i typed this out, then thought nah will just invite the trolls to act like complete jackasses. but sod it... happens anyway...
Ask anyone i play with in apostles of war, I have aa lot of time to play due to health reasons, I dont just constantly deposit and deposit and own all r12's etc. I have 8 characters, 1 of them has leadership, and thats only rank 19. I farm a lot, to salvage mostly, to sell or trade artifact drops etc, I enjoy it, even with only 6 dungeons + the skirmishes. I have made all my own dragons hoards to rank 10's and all my enchants to rank 10-12's myself from 5's or 7's... isnt that what were meant to do ?
Yes I know majority of people can only play the game a little, I know I play the game a lot more than the majority, but I have not taken advantage of a leadership army, that doesnt even come into this argument, what I was pissed about was logging in after the announcement and finding i basically lost 6 mil AD on the vaalue of the GMOP's I had held in my bank because I thought and believed they would be a stable value, and are always there for when I want to upgrade my enchants or artifacts during double RP events...
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plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,220Arc User
edited September 2015
When one sees the Leadership AD nerfs, one should automatically consider all the price of AD sinks will be decreased.
One could not see (at least I could not see) is ...... PWE actually does it this quick for one sink. I would expect months before they pull that trigger for one sink (based on previous experience). On the other hand, the speedy action should be contributed by our "collective effort" for hoarding AD, less NWO activities, etc.
When Leadership AD nerfs was announced, people dump Zen because they knew AD will be strong. For the GMoP holders (as using it as a currency), they should know better. They should dump GMoP and hold AD at that time. It is like when VIP was announced, they knew GMoP price would be dropped.
If you are GMoP consumer (like I bought 17 GMoP during 2xRP), I consumed them and have to swallow that. If you have just bought GMoP as a consumer, you still have a chance to sell it (unload that to the next victim). You should consider lucky (because you have that chance) comparing with those who consumed them a week ago.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
Thanks for making the change on the GMoPs. This will effect the majority of player in a positive way. My main is currently in full rank 8s but now I see the light of day in the possibility of him having him in all rank 10s. I really appreciate the path you have created so I am able to continue to upgrade my main character.
Because Underdark is coming, so they try to get rid of some bots/too rich players to make this module enjoyable by everyone.
This must be the joke of the day. Thank you. Why don't you pay Neverdeath Graveyard a visit, and tell that to the botters running over 2k Ghost Stories instances at the time?
And at the CMs, what about the suggestion to add Stronghold Vouchers to Leadership? Or will this suggestion be ignored, since something like that would cut into the sales of Stronghold Boxes from the ZEN shop? Or can we get at least some reward improvements in the longer tasks of Leadership? The majoritiy of the rAD from it is gone now, fine, go ahead and remove the rest rAD from rare tasks too. Then bring the profession at least in some order with some proper rewards for the time and money many of us invested into it.
I do believe in killing the messenger...
Want to know why?
Because it sends a message!
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johnjohniiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 108Arc User
Depending on the number of GMOPS vs SMOPs required, it can be beneficial to buy and use 80k GMOPs as opposed to waiting and using 100k SMOPs?
Hmmm! SMOP will be 85K in AH once it is available because VIP 12ers will pay 75K AD to get one.
If you need to upgrade 11->12 and don't have VIP 12 and the GMoP price drops below 68K each, it makes sense to buy and upgrade now before the changes kicks in.
If you have VIP 12, the GMoP needs to be below 60K each to be ahead.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
I can't wait to hear the new changes we have been promised, specially if they have to do with ways to earn AD while soloing.
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theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
edited September 2015
I'm not sure that the answer they come up with will be satisfactory, but it does sound like they're planning on doing something that will allow those of us who don't want to deal with "the queue" to get AD.
Truth be told, leadership changes aside, I'm back into "waiting for the next module" mode.
Strongholds wasn't able to keep my attention. So, while it'd be nice to have solo ways of getting AD, it likely won't affect my playtime much either way.
I know it's not as simple as I'm about to say, but if you take what they say as gospel (who would be that dumb given their propensity towards deceit so far?) What have they done in effect?
They claim they are dropping the prices on stuff to be more in line with the new earning curve of AD. Since the new earning curve is going to be lower and prices lower, isn't what they are doing something like taking a $100 and lopping off a 0? they are "revaluing" the currency.
So a loaf of bread costed you in the old economy $100, and you got paid $100 a hr. The currency revaluation makes your boss pay you $10 of new currency and the new loaf of bread is $10. Were did you or the suppliers come out ahead? Its like a 0 got lopped off but other than that what changed?
Yes I know I'm over simplifying, but given what they have promised, less AD earning, less prices..isn't that sort of what they have promised? But then they never quite deliver on their promises do they?
There was a time in the U.S. when currencies were backed by gold or silver (not like backed by a promise like it is now). The bills actually said on them that you could exchange then for a set amount of gold or silver. This made the paper money have a finite amount of what they could just go and print, the gold and silver had intensic values, if they over printed money, people would gobble up the gold and silver because it was more stable, and the government would have to honor the exchange, soon running out of precious metals.
So the government made it illegal to hold more than a minimal amount of precious metals, then revalued the old currency at a 3 to 1 ratio. They set a time frame for people to trade in the old "silver" notes 3 for 1 "green back" note. If you didn't trade them in you were left with a hand full of silver note worth nothing but paper. When you traded in for the green back, the notes no longer allowed you to demand precious metal in exchange. This allows the government to print lots of "funny money" unsecured by anything, allowing them to manipulate it however they wish unchecked.
In this instance, the GMOPS and keys were the gold and silver that people backed up their AD unsecured currency with. With what they are doing. dropping the prices etc. and changing the AD generation rates, they are instituting a currency re-evaluation. The "new" AD will be like our current paper money, it's backed up with nothing but a promise, making it far easier to manipulate in the future.
Editted out a few choice words in the title and post. I understand the frustration, but let's be more careful in our choice of language, especially in our titles
Comments
True, but at least they start doing something, let's see if they lower the AD requirement for stronghold boons
They could have simply changed the number of GMOPs required and called it a day, but instead they chose to make a new item and reduce the cost of the others.
And the number of RP items keeps on growing...we are at around 145 now I think, with all the different states they can come in. All pointless also, as it would be just as easy to increase the quantity of a single drop instead of making a new, higher value stone. In the end, what is the difference between dropping 1 Aquamarine, or a stack of 15 white pearls? This is a major inventory sink, and its totally necessary.
I had a feeling something really bad was coming and sold just about everything I had of value before 2xRP.
Made sense, leadership was finally tanked for good, I figured AD was just around the corner (like STO players told us it was).
— (The unwritten rule)
And I am glad the Leadership Items are back on the gateway. I am still trying to level up Leadership to level 20, which is so hard with the max XP being 240. I was hoping at first that they had only taken the AD from the Gateway Tasks. Sorry to see them go in the game client.
I have 3 toons, all between 62 and 65, none have a high enough GS to go into the Epic Areas.
Avariel Merilwen: Burn baby, MoF/Rene
Aejun The Silver: Devoted to Healing, DevOP/Justice
Mina Rosepetal: Super Natural, Pathfinder/Melee
Frost: Benchwarmer, Soulbinder/Fury
I also suspect this is WHY they are NOT changing the enchantment GEMs because of this. The change to GMoP/SMoP affects plain enchantments only. I really doubt people stacking GMoPs are going for rank 12 on all they dark enchantments, etc.
Nothing's ever good enough for folks who already have everything, especially when it allows poor folks and new players to get a leg up in a completely neutral way.
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
It did screw over people who spent rl money for zen.
Ask anyone i play with in apostles of war, I have aa lot of time to play due to health reasons, I dont just constantly deposit and deposit and own all r12's etc. I have 8 characters, 1 of them has leadership, and thats only rank 19. I farm a lot, to salvage mostly, to sell or trade artifact drops etc, I enjoy it, even with only 6 dungeons + the skirmishes. I have made all my own dragons hoards to rank 10's and all my enchants to rank 10-12's myself from 5's or 7's... isnt that what were meant to do ?
Yes I know majority of people can only play the game a little, I know I play the game a lot more than the majority, but I have not taken advantage of a leadership army, that doesnt even come into this argument, what I was pissed about was logging in after the announcement and finding i basically lost 6 mil AD on the vaalue of the GMOP's I had held in my bank because I thought and believed they would be a stable value, and are always there for when I want to upgrade my enchants or artifacts during double RP events...
One could not see (at least I could not see) is ...... PWE actually does it this quick for one sink. I would expect months before they pull that trigger for one sink (based on previous experience). On the other hand, the speedy action should be contributed by our "collective effort" for hoarding AD, less NWO activities, etc.
When Leadership AD nerfs was announced, people dump Zen because they knew AD will be strong.
For the GMoP holders (as using it as a currency), they should know better. They should dump GMoP and hold AD at that time. It is like when VIP was announced, they knew GMoP price would be dropped.
If you are GMoP consumer (like I bought 17 GMoP during 2xRP), I consumed them and have to swallow that.
If you have just bought GMoP as a consumer, you still have a chance to sell it (unload that to the next victim). You should consider lucky (because you have that chance) comparing with those who consumed them a week ago.
Thank you.
Why don't you pay Neverdeath Graveyard a visit, and tell that to the botters running over 2k Ghost Stories instances at the time?
And at the CMs, what about the suggestion to add Stronghold Vouchers to Leadership? Or will this suggestion be ignored, since something like that would cut into the sales of Stronghold Boxes from the ZEN shop?
Or can we get at least some reward improvements in the longer tasks of Leadership?
The majoritiy of the rAD from it is gone now, fine, go ahead and remove the rest rAD from rare tasks too.
Then bring the profession at least in some order with some proper rewards for the time and money many of us invested into it.
It's on preview already so next maintenance?
Kind of funny seeing all the GMoPs on the AH for 80k when the price changes have to be coming pretty soon.
If you need to upgrade 11->12 and don't have VIP 12 and the GMoP price drops below 68K each, it makes sense to buy and upgrade now before the changes kicks in.
If you have VIP 12, the GMoP needs to be below 60K each to be ahead.
Truth be told, leadership changes aside, I'm back into "waiting for the next module" mode.
Strongholds wasn't able to keep my attention. So, while it'd be nice to have solo ways of getting AD, it likely won't affect my playtime much either way.
They claim they are dropping the prices on stuff to be more in line with the new earning curve of AD. Since the new earning curve is going to be lower and prices lower, isn't what they are doing something like taking a $100 and lopping off a 0? they are "revaluing" the currency.
So a loaf of bread costed you in the old economy $100, and you got paid $100 a hr. The currency revaluation makes your boss pay you $10 of new currency and the new loaf of bread is $10. Were did you or the suppliers come out ahead? Its like a 0 got lopped off but other than that what changed?
Yes I know I'm over simplifying, but given what they have promised, less AD earning, less prices..isn't that sort of what they have promised? But then they never quite deliver on their promises do they?
There was a time in the U.S. when currencies were backed by gold or silver (not like backed by a promise like it is now). The bills actually said on them that you could exchange then for a set amount of gold or silver. This made the paper money have a finite amount of what they could just go and print, the gold and silver had intensic values, if they over printed money, people would gobble up the gold and silver because it was more stable, and the government would have to honor the exchange, soon running out of precious metals.
So the government made it illegal to hold more than a minimal amount of precious metals, then revalued the old currency at a 3 to 1 ratio. They set a time frame for people to trade in the old "silver" notes 3 for 1 "green back" note. If you didn't trade them in you were left with a hand full of silver note worth nothing but paper. When you traded in for the green back, the notes no longer allowed you to demand precious metal in exchange. This allows the government to print lots of "funny money" unsecured by anything, allowing them to manipulate it however they wish unchecked.
In this instance, the GMOPS and keys were the gold and silver that people backed up their AD unsecured currency with. With what they are doing. dropping the prices etc. and changing the AD generation rates, they are instituting a currency re-evaluation. The "new" AD will be like our current paper money, it's backed up with nothing but a promise, making it far easier to manipulate in the future.