You can tear down and build something else if you want to later. But, I feel your pain on making the choices.
Given the cost in time and resources that would have been invested in even a Tier 1 or 2 structure, I can't see too many Guilds tearing down any structures once they have gone up unless their members are very, very understanding and also have deep pockets.
With the new change to the Leadership Gateway situation, I can now see this as the largest global economic sink to take as much AD out of the game as possible. After looking at the levels needed to advance over the last several days, I had my suspicions. Now with today's Gateway change, I'm convinced of it. I will be watching with a very close eye until the launch of Strongholds to determine how I advise our Guild. I don't want our hard earned AD thrown at new Gear when the next mod will have another set.
I was not only hopeful, but really looking forward to the new Mod. After today...I've been shocked, disappointed and shame on me for letting my guard down.
Neverwinter has always been a PvE game, with a small contingent of PvP players. So many attempts to make this game a game its not has proved SO FRUSTRATING to those of us who DO NOT LIKE PvP on our screens.
Hey folks! More information will be coming out soon, but I can clear a few things up about Strongholds at launch.
1) PvP will be consensual and opt-in.
2) There will be both PvP and PvE elements of gameplay. There are facets of your stronghold that will be advanced by PvE and some that will be enhanced by PvP.
More to come!
Consensual and opt-in = ZERO PVP if one so chooses.
I hope Cryptic will keep its word that PvE guilds can participate building our Stronghold WITH ZERO PVP.
ZERO PVP MEANS:
NO GLORY REQUIRED. NO PVP REQUIRED. AT ALL.
Unfortunately, these PvP slanted marketing campaigns... aka blogs.. and all what I've heard are not lining up very well with Goatsharks comments, and other official comments that PvP is "optional."
Our guild is enjoying the potential teamwork elements of building our own stronghold, but we choose to PvE and ONLY PvE. And we are not the only ones.
beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
While I can't confirm it 100% due to recent wonkiness with preview, I suspect that donating Glory to your Stronghold is only needed for the PvP-oriented structures. Every structure has different currency requirements and doesn't use all of the variable ones (ie. all use gold, but only some use Icewind's Frozen Treasures).
And if this isn't true, then it's a flaw that we should point out in testing.
While I can't confirm it 100% due to recent wonkiness with preview, I suspect that donating Glory to your Stronghold is only needed for the PvP-oriented structures. Every structure has different currency requirements and doesn't use all of the variable ones (ie. all use gold, but only some use Icewind's Frozen Treasures).
And if this isn't true, then it's a flaw that we should point out in testing.
Thanks Becky that sounds like great news! This is one of my personal sticking points. If glory was required for PvE structures, that would be a deal breaker for me. PvE oriented structures should not require glory, because then PvP would be required, not optional.
The other question I have is how about those PvE guilds that would like to participate in just a little PvP if they have a small number of PvPers in guild. This represents a lot of guilds as well. I keep hearing all or nothing for PvP. What safeguards have been put in for guilds where 75-90+% want to PvE and a small number wish to PvP?
The other question I have is how about those PvE guilds that would like to participate in just a little PvP if they have a small number of PvPers in guild. This represents a lot of guilds as well. I keep hearing all or nothing for PvP. What safeguards have been put in for guilds where 75-90+% want to PvE and a small number wish to PvP?
Smaller guilds will band together(much like current quee system) and the guild with most members in the quee will be ellected as the guild map
There are more than BIS players in this game RIP Real Tiamat, RIP Real Demogorgon RIP real Temple of the spider. Why remove non bis content to give to bis players ???? FORCING the majority of your player base to play 4 mod old dungeons and trial will have a bad result on player base Changes are getting so bad i would rather prefer no new changes (RIP ICE FISHING in winter fest)
Can anyone tell me the requirements(building material) for building a lumbermill. I am in a small guild and are trying to get my calculations right to ensure we get it built ASAP. If there is a link to all buildings requirements that would be apreciated, but I doubt there is since i have spend more than a hour looking for one.
There are more than BIS players in this game RIP Real Tiamat, RIP Real Demogorgon RIP real Temple of the spider. Why remove non bis content to give to bis players ???? FORCING the majority of your player base to play 4 mod old dungeons and trial will have a bad result on player base Changes are getting so bad i would rather prefer no new changes (RIP ICE FISHING in winter fest)
Nancy - Dragonborn, SM Guardian Fighter A proud member of "mythical horde of DPS GFs"
1). Is SW more dps or tank based? 2). Yes. I am panzer! 3). Get ACT if you want to celebrate your epeen. 4). Horniness will not stand between me and what I believe - "MM"
0
beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
People were very reluctant to start documenting requirements because the system is complex, getting it written up is going to be a lot of work, and it's all subject to change until it launches.
For example, one subset of new resources was already changed to a single item instead of four. Testers are hoping for more of that type of change.
The way Cryptic has designed the new currencies is that PvPers will have a HUGE advantage over PvEers doing the entirety of PvE content. To be exact, PvPers can select to build a structure (The Barracks) that offer a 20% DPS boost which is unfair and a direct offensive advantage in all the hardest areas of the game for PvEers.
PvPing should not give you a buff to dominate on the PvE side of the game, at the expense of PvEers. It just makes no sense. Currently the only way to get such a buff is through PvP.
This is nothing short of an outrage for players and guilds alike that DO NOT wish to PvP. This has ALREADY negatively affected PvE guilds and will be a deal breaker for many PvErs and the costs will be major headaches for guild leaders and lost revenue for Cryptic.
The solution being floated around the community is a new SINGLE CURRENCY that allows players and guilds to build the structures they choose. This would satisfy PvE guilds and PvP guilds alike, as EVERYONE CAN PLAY THE GAME THE WAY THEY WANT TO PLAY. I think this is a great idea, and should be worked into the update BEFORE release.
The #1 reason people join guilds should be the PEOPLE. Friendships are actually made in guilds. Why then, should friends need to split just because of a buff? Its absurd. I will go so far to suggest this one decision will negatively affect the global re-playability factor in the game.
The boons we choose to build will best match our playstyle. However, we didn't form because of a buff, we formed and continue to co-exist because of the friendships made and the camaraderie we share. This is numero uno why Tyrs Paladium is still here and is still going strong. Its why MANY guilds are still here and going strong.
This decision has no redeeming value for anyone, is a net negative for PvE guilds, and will cause a ton of unnecessary strife. You will ABSOLUTELY see guildies breaking apart from their current guild just to get that 20% DPS boost.
This is NOT why guilds are created, nor exist. This needs to be addressed BEFORE it hits live.
theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
I generally agree that incentivizing people to ditch their guild to join another guild ("vote with your feet") leaves a pretty bad taste in my mouth. I don't care much for guild activity in general, so I've stayed with my (mostly dead) guild for a while now. Strongholds basically says "Yeah, if you do that, you basically don't get to play this mod lulz"
Mostly I'm not toooooo concerned, because I imagine mod 8 will be more solo friendly.
I've stayed with my (mostly dead) guild for a while now. Strongholds basically says "Yeah, if you do that, you basically don't get to play this mod lulz"
I don't blame you man. It's called pride. I hope your guild becomes great again.
The biggest carrot that Cryptic can throw Neverwinter guild leaders is Stronghold content in which people can play the game the way they choose too. This one aspect will have a net benefit of watching those who LEFT THE GAME to come back, to play with their friends and guild mates. By forcing PvP onto PvE focused guilds and PvE onto PvP focused guilds, this carrot is valueless for this recruitment purpose.
What better way to thank the Founders guild leaders who gave THEIR ALL to keep their guilds together in the weeks and months following Neverwinter's launch??
theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
Okay, so, here's the thing:
The current design of Strongholds makes a lot of sense-
-as a single player game. Don't understand? Let me tell you a story. An allegory if you will.
Once upon a time, there was a Dungeon Master, who decided that he would run a widgety kind of campaign. There would be PNPCs in the party, and the players could determine which character they would bring along into any given encounter. It would add some tactical RPG elements to the campaign! But lo, did the players hate this mechanic, and it ruined everything. The moral of our story, is that sometimes what's an interesting dynamic when controlled by a single person doing their single thing, becomes convoluted or unworkable when applied to a group dynamic.
As a single player RPG where you're a character who builds your guild, as a sort of SimGuildie sort of thing, I love the idea of "you must choose what buildings to make! you must use your resources wisely!" But once you throw in the reality that, uhhh, there's lots of people not just one, the novelty quickly loses its value, and you start getting into some weird politics.
I mean, I'm a solo player-but a part of me wants to build a guild, just so I have control over what buildings to build. Because the actual building part sounds kind of fun.
I'm a solo player-but a part of me wants to build a guild, just so I have control over what buildings to build. Because the actual building part sounds kind of fun.
Well, then you should be able to build a Stronghold! However, Cryptic will make it extraordinarily difficult for you to max your Stronghold with this update. Actually you seem like you'd do quite well as a guild leader, officer or even just a member. You simply dont like "politics" or "drama". Believe me when I tell you ... you can achieve that. Your guild doesnt need to be very big.
You are one of the (many) reasons why Cryptic needs to find a solution for small guilds...
The solution: small guilds need handicaps based on the number of guildies a guild has. From one player guilds on up. An alternative... small guilds get small guild bonuses that might be slightly less powerful.
theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
To be quite frank, I'm not 100% sure why each individual PC doesn't get their own stronghold, other than that the PVP aspect is obviously multiplayer centered.
0
torontodaveMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 992Arc User
Strongholds was a GUILD expansion.
It's for guilds. If you don't have a guild, then don't worry about it. Play another part of the game.
EP already stated that if you don't want to PVP, then you don't need the PVP structures.
I myself am looking forward to the expansion. I can't wait to give my feedback. I haven't played anything on test, because I try to trust the devs vision of what's fun. If its not fun, then I'll post something constructive trying to make it more fun.
NW-DSQ39N5SJ - 'To Infinity, and BEYOND!' - Spelljammer Quest. Skyships, Indiana Jones moments NW-DC9R4J5EH - 'The Black Pearl' - Spelljammer! Phlo Riders and Space Orcs
Thanks for all the fish.
0
theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
The +Power structure is an amazing structure for either PVE or PVP. That's why people are dismayed.
from what I can tell, the last two PVP buildings(Siege Workshop, Siege Smithy) are the ones that give the PVP rewards.
the Barracks is a PVE building, and gives +8000 power ..
So what is everyone so angry about?
The only 'flaw' in the plan I can see is that there aren't enough plots for all the buildings, so hard choices must be made. Which is fine, because it ensures guilds have a differing mosaic of powers-instead of BIS.
And even then, I predict Strongholds Expansions will add new plots and new buildings. So eventually you'll get the boons you want.
Edit: New building ideas: Salt Mine, Whaling Dock (+Oil refinery), Sacred Grove (for nature types), Summoner's Circle(for demonic types), Dragon Hatchery, etc.
NW-DSQ39N5SJ - 'To Infinity, and BEYOND!' - Spelljammer Quest. Skyships, Indiana Jones moments NW-DC9R4J5EH - 'The Black Pearl' - Spelljammer! Phlo Riders and Space Orcs
Thanks for all the fish.
0
torontodaveMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 992Arc User
Quick questions; Does the stronghold have a campfire, and access to the guild bank, and postal courier?
^^^ This is key. (And already answered: Yes, Yes, Yes)
Idea: Active Companion 'Postal Owl' - You can retrieve/send items from your mail without going to a postbox.
NW-DSQ39N5SJ - 'To Infinity, and BEYOND!' - Spelljammer Quest. Skyships, Indiana Jones moments NW-DC9R4J5EH - 'The Black Pearl' - Spelljammer! Phlo Riders and Space Orcs
Thanks for all the fish.
Comments
I was not only hopeful, but really looking forward to the new Mod. After today...I've been shocked, disappointed and shame on me for letting my guard down.
Consensual and opt-in = ZERO PVP if one so chooses.
I hope Cryptic will keep its word that PvE guilds can participate building our Stronghold WITH ZERO PVP.
ZERO PVP MEANS:
NO GLORY REQUIRED. NO PVP REQUIRED. AT ALL.
Unfortunately, these PvP slanted marketing campaigns... aka blogs.. and all what I've heard are not lining up very well with Goatsharks comments, and other official comments that PvP is "optional."
Our guild is enjoying the potential teamwork elements of building our own stronghold, but we choose to PvE and ONLY PvE. And we are not the only ones.
TYRS PALADIUM - A Premier Neverwinter Online Guild
No Drama. Camaraderie. TEAM Focus. That's the TYRS way. If that's your style, come join us!
Research our Guild here: Read our official Recruitment thread | Sign up here: Tyrs Guild Website! | NEVERWINTER GUILD LEADERS: Join the Fellowship!
And if this isn't true, then it's a flaw that we should point out in testing.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Thanks Becky that sounds like great news! This is one of my personal sticking points. If glory was required for PvE structures, that would be a deal breaker for me. PvE oriented structures should not require glory, because then PvP would be required, not optional.
TYRS PALADIUM - A Premier Neverwinter Online Guild
No Drama. Camaraderie. TEAM Focus. That's the TYRS way. If that's your style, come join us!
Research our Guild here: Read our official Recruitment thread | Sign up here: Tyrs Guild Website! | NEVERWINTER GUILD LEADERS: Join the Fellowship!
TYRS PALADIUM - A Premier Neverwinter Online Guild
No Drama. Camaraderie. TEAM Focus. That's the TYRS way. If that's your style, come join us!
Research our Guild here: Read our official Recruitment thread | Sign up here: Tyrs Guild Website! | NEVERWINTER GUILD LEADERS: Join the Fellowship!
Smaller guilds will band together(much like current quee system) and the guild with most members in the quee will be ellected as the guild map
RIP Real Tiamat, RIP Real Demogorgon RIP real Temple of the spider. Why remove non bis content to give to bis players ????
FORCING the majority of your player base to play 4 mod old dungeons and trial will have a bad result on player base
Changes are getting so bad i would rather prefer no new changes (RIP ICE FISHING in winter fest)
Click banner for the Dragon Dogs Family guild page.
Click banner for the Dragon Dogs Family guild page.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
RIP Real Tiamat, RIP Real Demogorgon RIP real Temple of the spider. Why remove non bis content to give to bis players ????
FORCING the majority of your player base to play 4 mod old dungeons and trial will have a bad result on player base
Changes are getting so bad i would rather prefer no new changes (RIP ICE FISHING in winter fest)
A proud member of "mythical horde of DPS GFs"
1). Is SW more dps or tank based?
2). Yes. I am panzer!
3). Get ACT if you want to celebrate your epeen.
4). Horniness will not stand between me and what I believe - "MM"
For example, one subset of new resources was already changed to a single item instead of four. Testers are hoping for more of that type of change.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
PvPing should not give you a buff to dominate on the PvE side of the game, at the expense of PvEers. It just makes no sense. Currently the only way to get such a buff is through PvP.
This is nothing short of an outrage for players and guilds alike that DO NOT wish to PvP. This has ALREADY negatively affected PvE guilds and will be a deal breaker for many PvErs and the costs will be major headaches for guild leaders and lost revenue for Cryptic.
The solution being floated around the community is a new SINGLE CURRENCY that allows players and guilds to build the structures they choose. This would satisfy PvE guilds and PvP guilds alike, as EVERYONE CAN PLAY THE GAME THE WAY THEY WANT TO PLAY. I think this is a great idea, and should be worked into the update BEFORE release.
TYRS PALADIUM - A Premier Neverwinter Online Guild
No Drama. Camaraderie. TEAM Focus. That's the TYRS way. If that's your style, come join us!
Research our Guild here: Read our official Recruitment thread | Sign up here: Tyrs Guild Website! | NEVERWINTER GUILD LEADERS: Join the Fellowship!
The boons we choose to build will best match our playstyle. However, we didn't form because of a buff, we formed and continue to co-exist because of the friendships made and the camaraderie we share. This is numero uno why Tyrs Paladium is still here and is still going strong. Its why MANY guilds are still here and going strong.
This decision has no redeeming value for anyone, is a net negative for PvE guilds, and will cause a ton of unnecessary strife. You will ABSOLUTELY see guildies breaking apart from their current guild just to get that 20% DPS boost.
This is NOT why guilds are created, nor exist. This needs to be addressed BEFORE it hits live.
TYRS PALADIUM - A Premier Neverwinter Online Guild
No Drama. Camaraderie. TEAM Focus. That's the TYRS way. If that's your style, come join us!
Research our Guild here: Read our official Recruitment thread | Sign up here: Tyrs Guild Website! | NEVERWINTER GUILD LEADERS: Join the Fellowship!
Mostly I'm not toooooo concerned, because I imagine mod 8 will be more solo friendly.
I don't blame you man. It's called pride. I hope your guild becomes great again.
The biggest carrot that Cryptic can throw Neverwinter guild leaders is Stronghold content in which people can play the game the way they choose too. This one aspect will have a net benefit of watching those who LEFT THE GAME to come back, to play with their friends and guild mates. By forcing PvP onto PvE focused guilds and PvE onto PvP focused guilds, this carrot is valueless for this recruitment purpose.
What better way to thank the Founders guild leaders who gave THEIR ALL to keep their guilds together in the weeks and months following Neverwinter's launch??
Come on Devs, please hear our call!!!
TYRS PALADIUM - A Premier Neverwinter Online Guild
No Drama. Camaraderie. TEAM Focus. That's the TYRS way. If that's your style, come join us!
Research our Guild here: Read our official Recruitment thread | Sign up here: Tyrs Guild Website! | NEVERWINTER GUILD LEADERS: Join the Fellowship!
The current design of Strongholds makes a lot of sense-
-as a single player game. Don't understand? Let me tell you a story. An allegory if you will.
Once upon a time, there was a Dungeon Master, who decided that he would run a widgety kind of campaign. There would be PNPCs in the party, and the players could determine which character they would bring along into any given encounter. It would add some tactical RPG elements to the campaign! But lo, did the players hate this mechanic, and it ruined everything. The moral of our story, is that sometimes what's an interesting dynamic when controlled by a single person doing their single thing, becomes convoluted or unworkable when applied to a group dynamic.
As a single player RPG where you're a character who builds your guild, as a sort of SimGuildie sort of thing, I love the idea of "you must choose what buildings to make! you must use your resources wisely!" But once you throw in the reality that, uhhh, there's lots of people not just one, the novelty quickly loses its value, and you start getting into some weird politics.
I mean, I'm a solo player-but a part of me wants to build a guild, just so I have control over what buildings to build. Because the actual building part sounds kind of fun.
Well, then you should be able to build a Stronghold! However, Cryptic will make it extraordinarily difficult for you to max your Stronghold with this update. Actually you seem like you'd do quite well as a guild leader, officer or even just a member. You simply dont like "politics" or "drama". Believe me when I tell you ... you can achieve that. Your guild doesnt need to be very big.
You are one of the (many) reasons why Cryptic needs to find a solution for small guilds...
The solution: small guilds need handicaps based on the number of guildies a guild has. From one player guilds on up. An alternative... small guilds get small guild bonuses that might be slightly less powerful.
TYRS PALADIUM - A Premier Neverwinter Online Guild
No Drama. Camaraderie. TEAM Focus. That's the TYRS way. If that's your style, come join us!
Research our Guild here: Read our official Recruitment thread | Sign up here: Tyrs Guild Website! | NEVERWINTER GUILD LEADERS: Join the Fellowship!
It's for guilds. If you don't have a guild, then don't worry about it. Play another part of the game.
EP already stated that if you don't want to PVP, then you don't need the PVP structures.
I myself am looking forward to the expansion. I can't wait to give my feedback. I haven't played anything on test, because I try to trust the devs vision of what's fun. If its not fun, then I'll post something constructive trying to make it more fun.
NW-DC9R4J5EH - 'The Black Pearl' - Spelljammer! Phlo Riders and Space Orcs
Thanks for all the fish.
This is unfortunately quite untrue. The Barracks are a MAJOR boon (pun purely accidental:)) for both PvEers as well as PvPers)
This is a big deal to many guilds and guild leaders that needs to be resolved before launch.
TYRS PALADIUM - A Premier Neverwinter Online Guild
No Drama. Camaraderie. TEAM Focus. That's the TYRS way. If that's your style, come join us!
Research our Guild here: Read our official Recruitment thread | Sign up here: Tyrs Guild Website! | NEVERWINTER GUILD LEADERS: Join the Fellowship!
source?
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/neverwinter/news/detail/9480453-neverwinter:-boon-structure-guide-dev-blog
from what I can tell, the last two PVP buildings(Siege Workshop, Siege Smithy) are the ones that give the PVP rewards.
the Barracks is a PVE building, and gives +8000 power ..
So what is everyone so angry about?
The only 'flaw' in the plan I can see is that there aren't enough plots for all the buildings, so hard choices must be made. Which is fine, because it ensures guilds have a differing mosaic of powers-instead of BIS.
And even then, I predict Strongholds Expansions will add new plots and new buildings. So eventually you'll get the boons you want.
Edit: New building ideas: Salt Mine, Whaling Dock (+Oil refinery), Sacred Grove (for nature types), Summoner's Circle(for demonic types), Dragon Hatchery, etc.
NW-DC9R4J5EH - 'The Black Pearl' - Spelljammer! Phlo Riders and Space Orcs
Thanks for all the fish.
^^^ This is key. (And already answered: Yes, Yes, Yes)
Idea: Active Companion 'Postal Owl' - You can retrieve/send items from your mail without going to a postbox.
NW-DC9R4J5EH - 'The Black Pearl' - Spelljammer! Phlo Riders and Space Orcs
Thanks for all the fish.