icyphishMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,255Arc User
edited May 2015
If you are a DC having trouble with HR, then I suggest a few things.
1. Slot all your defense slot with Silvery Enchantment. (deflect)
2. Pick up Fey Thirst (whatever it spells, the boon that deals up to 3000 dmg on deflect)
3. Negation armor to keep yourself more tanky
Now when you fight HR, all you need to do is heal yourself when you can, and watch them kill themselves with the deflect damage they deal to themselves. :O
you don't wanna stunlocked by 0.6s every 1.5s? slot sunburst
the fact in the same level gear HR can't kill DC alone.. but in pvp fight HR CR is the reason why DC can be dead..
so if you wanna nerf CR so how we are gonna kill DC in PVP? basicaly you just wanna become immortal in PVP
how many times i need to explain how to counter HR CR?
some of you come to pvp forum not to disscuss playstyle and how to counter each other rotation instead just wanna nerf other class and make your class superior
you can typing all day about HR become OP in PVP instead of l2p to use short animation encounter..
if you all already crying about HR that basicaly bugged root 30% primary damage and loose 20% deflect change at the moment
instead of crying to cryptic to nerf HR i think you need to pray to god to buff your brain
please don't l2p and i really mean it.. more free kill for me
I'm using short animation encounters. Thanks for trying though. However, without astral shield/bastion my DC is pretty useless. Also, even with 40% CC resist, I don't have time to cast sunburst. Not even one sacred flame.
If you are a DC having trouble with HR, then I suggest a few things.
1. Slot all your defense slot with Silvery Enchantment. (deflect)
2. Pick up Fey Thirst (whatever it spells, the boon that deals up to 3000 dmg on deflect)
3. Negation armor to keep yourself more tanky
Now when you fight HR, all you need to do is heal yourself when you can, and watch them kill themselves with the deflect damage they deal to themselves. :O
I've considered a negation, however, a nerf is inevitable so that's only a short term solution. Still I shouldn't have to redo my build for one single class abusing a broken mechanic. I have no trouble against any other class, can hold the ground 2 or 3 vs 1 as long as I'm not stunlocked, and while i'm ok with stunlocks when I'm against half of the other team, in a 1 vs 1 situation, it's not acceptable.
I'm using short animation encounters. Thanks for trying though. However, without astral shield/bastion my DC is pretty useless. Also, even with 40% CC resist, I don't have time to cast sunburst. Not even one sacred flame.
Look at your encounter bar slot
when you being dazed by HR there some interval time when your encounter available just spawn sunburst and mess HR rotation
if not then you facing premade HR with high crit and nice RNG luck that can apply weak grasping 25% change when doing crit
lets say HR got 50% crit change 50%*25%= 12.5% change
it's RNG baby
So you wanna have a build that can dominate every class? Try TR or CW
It s a waste of time talk to you guys, that s the confirm once again no1 of you play serius pvp or do premade, coz which u write in all of ur posts it s no sense.
U want nerf a class that is the bugged class in this mod, the class whit the worst damage and the worst defense, just coz che stun a cw and a dc, only this 2 class ah, but we cant kill this 2 class....
We cant stun the broken class TR that kill us whit daggers, we cant stun gf that kill us whit 2 skills, we cant stun gwf when go in zerk, and give us a couple of hit and kill us, we cant do absolutly nothing vs the op one of the most broken class now like now.
So 85% of the post here are of ppls that play broken class that need now to be nerfed:
Cw
GF
OP
and u have the courage to ask to nerf the hr rotation, once again, L2P cry baby, u can say evrything u want, you know nothing about pvp,about how class works. So u want a nerf?? dont say here,there, this, than. Just say, i m a cry baby, i dont know how to use my char, i want to be immortal vs evry class, nerf all class excpet mine. I can understand a cry baby that write this, but not some1 who say i know pvp, i know all classes eccc.
For the 100 times answer: why in the first 100 pages there are maybe 50 hr whit kill/death 2/1??
Why no1 want an hr on premade pvp?
Why pvp guild dont use hr on their premade??
Where are the top hr players in this mod??
Why no1 post a video where an hr whit same equip level kill: dc? cw?op?tr?gwf?gf??
ANSWER THIS,before write the same no sense and brainless things, never saw a comunty like this, than u say why the game is in this condition, full of bugs, and bronek classes, it s worst than a BETA.
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lirithielMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,482Arc User
It s a waste of time talk to you guys, that s the confirm once again no1 of you play serius pvp or do premade, coz which u write in all of ur posts it s no sense.
U want nerf a class that is the bugged class in this mod, the class whit the worst damage and the worst defense, just coz che stun a cw and a dc, only this 2 class ah, but we cant kill this 2 class....
We cant stun the broken class TR that kill us whit daggers, we cant stun gf that kill us whit 2 skills, we cant stun gwf when go in zerk, and give us a couple of hit and kill us, we cant do absolutly nothing vs the op one of the most broken class now like now.
So 85% of the post here are of ppls that play broken class that need now to be nerfed:
Cw
GF
OP
and u have the courage to ask to nerf the hr rotation, once again, L2P cry baby, u can say evrything u want, you know nothing about pvp,about how class works. So u want a nerf?? dont say here,there, this, than. Just say, i m a cry baby, i dont know how to use my char, i want to be immortal vs evry class, nerf all class excpet mine. I can understand a cry baby that write this, but not some1 who say i know pvp, i know all classes eccc.
For the 100 times answer: why in the first 100 pages there are maybe 50 hr whit kill/death 2/1??
Why no1 want an hr on premade pvp?
Why pvp guild dont use hr on their premade??
Where are the top hr players in this mod??
Why no1 post a video where an hr whit same equip level kill: dc? cw?op?tr?gwf?gf??
ANSWER THIS,before write the same no sense and brainless things, never saw a comunty like this, than u say why the game is in this condition, full of bugs, and bronek classes, it s worst than a BETA.
Please. Stop. Defending. Your. Broken. Class.
It's embarrassing...
For the vast majority of players doing pvp out there the daze is very much permanent because they are unlikely to have 2k+ tenacity or Control Resist stat. Regardless of how many/few HRs there are on the leaderboard (which is broken btw) does not excuse that the perma-daze mechanic is ****e and skill-less and needs to go.
Our pain is self chosen.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
For the vast majority of players doing pvp out there the daze is very much permanent because they are unlikely to have 2k+ tenacity or Control Resist stat. Regardless of how many/few HRs there are on the leaderboard (which is broken btw) does not excuse that the perma-daze mechanic is ****e and skill-less and needs to go.
Ok fine now we put a idc on daze -ups Hr no longer is played very efficent indeed.
I dont know your histrory but I can read between the lines your a Archer and I must admit I think your envious about Trapper and want Archer to be the chosen path.
I am fine with idc or removal of daze IF;
All cc chains from all classes that kills are removed every single one that can lock down and kill other players
Arpen is applayed to roots
Control bonus is applayed to root
An average of at last 30% more dps is given to Hrs
Major buggs like wild med not working as wai is adressed
We are given a reliable dodge mechanic
That will do for now before this is fixed dont touch daze as it is among the least game breaking things going on at this game atm with Hr being the over all WEAKEST class.
So yea stop defending daze and fix this and we are in agreement because demanding a nerf to the Hr class atm with Cws and Trs being what they are that is embarrassing...............
They don't want balance. They lash out at TR Whisperknives, self-nerfed (yet more fun) players who have issues with their own class. Yet they say we need to be OP to win. Embarrassing indeed.
Yet another Tr Clown having the guts to speak of Hrs wanting to be OP after defending Tr whole module 5. After Mirror/Kweassa your Morenthar takes the second place of being the worst troll clown this forum has ever seen.
Shall we go though numbers of Hrs on Leaderboard and Kd ratio again to a Tr asking for nerfs of the weakest class ingame with who has the a Kd ratio 5 times better then any other class.
Reality check Mr Morenthar isent you speciality is it - even if this is a fantazy game it doesent mean it is your fantazy game where Tr walks like Gods among men... Lest be very very happy indeed your not the GM over this world....
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lirithielMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,482Arc User
Ok fine now we put a idc on daze -ups Hr no longer is played very efficent indeed.
I dont know your histrory but I can read between the lines your a Archer and I must admit I think your envious about Trapper and want Archer to be the chosen path.
I am fine with idc or removal of daze IF;
All cc chains from all classes that kills are removed every single one that can lock down and kill other players
Arpen is applayed to roots
Control bonus is applayed to root
An average of at last 30% more dps is given to Hrs
Major buggs like wild med not working as wai is adressed
We are given a reliable dodge mechanic
That will do for now before this is fixed dont touch daze as its amont the least game breaking things going on at this game atm with Hr being the over all WEAKEST class.
So yea stop defending daze and fix this and we are in agreement because demanding a nerf to the Hr class atm with Cws and Trs being what they are that is embarrassing...............
Look Marnival, I understand your point of view in that without this mechanic HRs are just about as useful as a lvl 1 striker companion, but it doesn't excuse the fact that perma-daze is wrong as should never even have made it past the QA team. While I am in full agreement that we have tonnes of <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> that needs fixing and in desperate need a damage boost, I cannot stand by and defend this BS that I see Trappers pulling off in pvp.
Yes I have an Archer, but I only do pvp on him for the Burning gear, which I completed last night so I prolly won't be running GG much on him anymore. My Combat HR is the toon I made for pvp, however, and the one I am basing my experiences on. I have no desire to play "FotM for 2 Mods" Trapper so I can assure you that envy has nothing to do with my comments. First and foremost I play pvp for fun and the diversity it provides, but not being able to do a single thing in most combat situations due to stunlocking is not even remotely fun.
Our pain is self chosen.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
I m all for changing this but when the whole existence of hr is based on this it cant only happen to be nerfed .
If other changes will come, this one will be more than welcomed.
Would love to be back to aspect of the serpent
Look Marnival, I understand your point of view in that without this mechanic HRs are just about as useful as a lvl 1 striker companion, but it doesn't excuse the fact that perma-daze is wrong as should never even have made it past the QA team. While I am in full agreement that we have tonnes of <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> that needs fixing and in desperate need a damage boost, I cannot stand by and defend this BS that I see Trappers pulling off in pvp.
Yes I have an Archer, but I only do pvp on him for the Burning gear, which I completed last night so I prolly won't be running GG much on him anymore. My Combat HR is the toon I made for pvp, however, and the one I am basing my experiences on. I have no desire to play "FotM for 2 Mods" Trapper so I can assure you that envy has nothing to do with my comments. First and foremost I play pvp for fun and the diversity it provides, but not being able to do a single thing in most combat situations due to stunlocking is not even remotely fun.
Never liked anything that prevents you from playing that is locking down your toon with ccs.
Now that said Hr cc daze chain is not the only so one of the few that gives the opponent a chanse to survive simple due to the extremely low damage of the Hrs whish in turn lead to a very long time to kill with daze.
Gwf 2 cc 3 sec kill
Gf 2-3 cc chain 4 sec kill
Cw depending on set up cc 3-6 sec kill
Tr well can kill from 1-5 sec depending on set up
Pal 1 sec instand kill even withtout cc
Sw can if right build with crit kill of non tanks also
Hr cc chain daze kill basicly 4 full rotations at least with a daily stun or 2 15 sec +
As I said earlier fix alot of other stuff first because starting with the WEAKEST CLASS FIRST when we know cryptic will take hole expansions and modules to fix other thingss is not acceptable in my book- simple as that........
That's the OP's standard response pretty much everywhere else.
So you dont play Hr then tell me what class DO you play- right now we have somebody telling a Hr the weakest class in nw atm to l2p so educate us with what class you belong to instead of giving smart-as*s stupid no good comments mkay....
The daze does not need to be nerfed it really only has a big effect against new pvp player but so does every other classes abilities new players are squashed like bug and get very frustrated as of 2weeks ago I was in this spot also but not once did I complain about the other clases I just brought up my pvp gear score and now I do ok against every one but my wifes CW . When going up against same level Hrs can control but not kill but CW and a TRs can do both . They can hit you and you never even saw where he came from and is gone again and with very high amounts of dps. Nothing against TR or CW both are strong PVP classes I know I cant beat my wife she's a CW same level and will wipe the floor with my HR shes geared at 1875 and I am 2005 how would you guys like to live with that. for the DCs if you are away from the group the hr may get you but most likely you will just tie hjim up til help arrives then hes dead. The good teams are miked so when they get into a situation like that its not long till someone shows up and its nighty night for the HR. The big issue I found was with gushing you could spam 2 rooting encounters over and over with no cool downs this was fixed yesterday and it should have been. If you carry the correct encounters for PVP the you should be able to break a HR daze. We were to be moderate strikers but our damage and deflect have been weakened to the point that we deal the worst damage in any class. I have 2 times as many losses as wins in PVP so the HR is not the PVP class if you want to be pvp top of charts
I wish you all well and hope to see after you have geared correctly then it will be a much more fun PVP. My only gripe with pvp is teams sitting at the other teams respawn and decimating them this is wrong and will destroy the new PVPers that PVP needs to survive
They want all of their offensive capabilities as well as a broken perma-daze mechanic. They don't want balance.
HR's "offensive capabilities" are non existent. Perhaps only the fact that roots are bugged and don't respect arpen. Now in all seriousness, DC is the only one with lower offensive capabilities and I say that because I don't see many dps DC around, so this might not even be true. As far as OP goes, yes, they have lower dps overall, but have a crazy damage oneshot daily. All HR who know what they are talking about want to get rid of the dependency on crushing roots and get incresed damage and bugfixes in return, more or less.
HR's "offensive capabilities" are non existent. Perhaps only the fact that roots are bugged and don't respect arpen. Now in all seriousness, DC is the only one with lower offensive capabilities and I say that because I don't see many dps DC around, so this might not even be true. As far as OP goes, yes, they have lower dps overall, but have a crazy damage oneshot daily. All HR who know what they are talking about want to get rid of the dependency on crushing roots and get incresed damage and bugfixes in return, more or less.
this would be great you are 100% correct I would love to go back to Melee HR but I have found they don't fix things here across the board so classs just get washed out of being competitive which is where HR is right now vs the TR and CW class I prefer to run with our dcs or GF to keep cW and tr off us and then we deal with others as a team seems to be the best plan now
Ok lets see.
Getting killed in 5 sec from a trapper makes you a paper doll actually but either way I can instead kill you with my Gwf or Gf in 2 sec if it makes you feel better you get fly up up in the air while dieing.
I can also ask my fellow Pal to daily your butt in 1 sec or ..... I think you get the general idea.
Having a near bis Gwf and Hr atm I can tell you that if you die to a Hr in 5 sec its a combination of how weak our defence as Hr are and that your not buildt for pvp at all.
I can chain if lucky a Cw to death as he can me if he gets the upper hand but it sure dont take no 5 seconds and facing a good Gf or Gwf am dead in the water unless I get help.
Nobody likes cc chains to death at least nobody in their right minds but your barking up the wrong tree.
Fix cc chains to death sure but do it as general toward all classes not against maby the in pvp weakest class atm.
I dont care from what cc chain I die its annoying and tiresome anyhow but an Hr trying to cc chain me to death will at leat give room for either get help or break that chain, Gf or Gwf will not give you that chanse and very seldom will a good Cw either.
I think if you played every class you would know what your saying is not the same thing as the stunlock from the HR's. Yes a GF can stun you or knock you down, but there is a chance to dodge the anvil almost all the time. I can cast exaltation on my self while he's bull rushing me and take the anvil, cw can repel, same with dodging cw's, there are windows that can be taken advantage of to escape or evade. On my cw, hr, dc, tr once hit with roots there is absolutely **** you can do but sit there until your dead, no chance to dodge, cast buff or do anything really. The perfect elven on my DC helps with the rooting problem for the most part, the daze makes it useless still because by the time the daze wears off you are rooted and dazed again. Logic would dictate that they would not create a pvp porting to this game with multiple classes and varieties to essentially make it just a reactionary mechanic, he he strikes first wins, at least I hope that is not the case.
I ran into a particular HR yesterday in GG that put me into stun lock for 6 - 8 seconds each time. I figured he was taking advantage of the endless range spam, so looked at the parse after the match. His longest stunlock was 13 seconds against another player (1 stun ever second - there were a few occasions where there was a 2 second gap between stuns here and there and a few occassions where there were multiple stuns a second).
Anyway he was doing it without even utilizing the endless ranged cooldown. Instead he was just using some stealth and very good stance switching.
The PVP gear does not help with this since it's the frequency of the stuns not the duration of each stun.
I think if you played every class you would know what your saying is not the same thing as the stunlock from the HR's. Yes a GF can stun you or knock you down, but there is a chance to dodge the anvil almost all the time. I can cast exaltation on my self while he's bull rushing me and take the anvil, cw can repel, same with dodging cw's, there are windows that can be taken advantage of to escape or evade. On my cw, hr, dc, tr once hit with roots there is absolutely **** you can do but sit there until your dead, no chance to dodge, cast buff or do anything really. The perfect elven on my DC helps with the rooting problem for the most part, the daze makes it useless still because by the time the daze wears off you are rooted and dazed again. Logic would dictate that they would not create a pvp porting to this game with multiple classes and varieties to essentially make it just a reactionary mechanic, he he strikes first wins, at least I hope that is not the case.
Agree agree agree and agree.
Now any cc chain removes skill from pvp as it prevents countra mesure per see.
As it stands in todays Pvp in NW Hr with dz chain still end up as the weakest class on the board.
For each scenario you been killed by a Hr you been killed 10 times by stronger abilitys from other stronger classes.
Should Hr daze be on idc - Simple answer YES - the right answer NOT UNTIL OTHER THINGS GET FIXED AT SAME TIME.
You simply can not remove daze from Hr as it is today becasue even WITH IT we are the overall weakest least played least wanted class in NW.
Remove it and Hr is just a pet running runing around to be toyed with and lauged at in lfg channels...
If there wasn't some game braking feature around this wouldn't be NWO and we would be actually playing another game right? I said it for mod5 tr's bag o' bugs and i say it for this 1 feature we are discussing here, the guy who let it past testing is a freakin idiot... Tbh the idea of giving the undodgeable roots a dazing effect is a stroke of genius in itself.
Guess you gotta take NWO with philosophy - accept its not perfect and that it will NEVER be or get the *** out of here
I ran into a particular HR yesterday in GG that put me into stun lock for 6 - 8 seconds each time. I figured he was taking advantage of the endless range spam, so looked at the parse after the match. His longest stunlock was 13 seconds against another player (1 stun ever second - there were a few occasions where there was a 2 second gap between stuns here and there and a few occassions where there were multiple stuns a second).
Anyway he was doing it without even utilizing the endless ranged cooldown. Instead he was just using some stealth and very good stance switching.
The PVP gear does not help with this since it's the frequency of the stuns not the duration of each stun.
I will say, this particular HR was very good.
thats not possible. hr stuns are only .5 seconds at rank 4.
HRs are not as weak as people think they are, nor as they as strong as other people think they are.
In terms of 1v1s with other classes, this is what HR is currently at (talking about BiS gear/build levels - no, this is not your bad spec'd, non-FOTM HR):
HR vs TR: TR wins. You won't even win against scrubs if they're geared. CoS spam is too uncounterable, and your burst damage capability is too low.
HR vs GWF: 50-50, if GWF manages to land crit rotation with Destroyer stacks up, GWF wins, if HR can outheal and avoid the damage, HR will win. Until avalanche procs, that is.
HR vs GF: IV GF loses to HR, SM GF should win, but only if they can one rotate. Oh yeah, this applies usually, up until you get totally wrecked by 30k avalanche procs. This is why I don't stay anywhere near pink GFs when I'm fighting them.
HR vs CW: 50-50, HR is naturally weak to CC from CWs, but CWs are also weak to HR dazes, so it will depend on build, skill and ping. Lagging even minusculely against a CW using Spell Twisting is pretty much instant KO unless you use Oghma's Token.
HR vs DC: stalemate against Faithful, not sure about DPS DCs though. With fire wheel, might be possible to win against a Faithful DC.
HR vs OP: stalemate, until the OP oneshots you with that daily that you missed your dodge on, after you dodged the first 3. With fire wheel, I think it might be possible to win against an OP.
HR vs SW: honestly, I think the HR loses here, unless you go full permadaze spec. Also depends on where the fight is. Offnode? Good luck. On node? WB is a pain, but if you time dazes properly it's probably a win. If they're (ab)using wheel multiprocs? Run away or use your own.
HR vs HR: HR with higher ping should hit ESC, and "Exit". Or whoever crits CA first. GG random interrupts. I didn't even know HR 1v1s still existed. Not since Module 5 Trapper.
That being said, the dazes, roots, procs and other BS that the HR is right now is pretty dumb. Roots needs to be changed to be dodgeable. Swiftness of the Fox and possibly Forestbond should be reworked. With cooldown reductions like that reduced in effectiveness so that encounters and dazes aren't totally spammable, I think Crushing Roots (dazes) should be okay, although a cooldown may still be in order (something like 5 seconds on strong root dazes, and 2-3 seconds on weak roots, possibly longer though).
However, if you do nerf those things, you need to buff HR damage. HR is very reliant on procs for damage right now, such as the Lostmauth set, Thorned Roots, and some other things, and even then you still need a good amount of time before you can kill people. HR damage will only get worse once they fix Armor Penetration resistance in tenacity (which currently does not work at all, so tanks take a lot more damage than they should). I dislike the fact that HR is so reliant on procs now. It'd be nice to have things like Thorned Roots toned down so that it's not a crucial part of your damage, while having damage of encounters and powers that need targeting and take some sort of skill to land, such as Fox Shift, increased so that they're worthwhile slotting (Fox Shift - currently worst damage dealing power in PvP for HRs right now; exaggeration, but you get the point).
Right now, as it stands, PvP HRs have some of the worst per-encounter damage as it is. Overall damage is more "damage per second" rather than "burst damage", as is the meta right now, which I guess is why HR /can/ be considered weaker in certain settings. Overall, over time, HR does deal more DPS than most other classes (running ACT logs, I actually will end up dealing more damage than a DPS spec conqueror GF in a standard PvP match), but it's not as fast as other classes. This is why you need to spec for survival as well as damage - a dead HR does no damage. A PvP DPS race over time, you should win over most classes because HRs have the most continuous DPS out of all classes. TRs, of course, being the exception here.
Buff HR base damage (do NOT increase damage on the weapons, or you can and will break many many things with the class and make it OP), put an ICD on the roots (separate strong and weak roots, please), nerf Swiftness of the Fox and Forestbond so that spamming encounters continuously is no longer a thing (there is absolutely no reason to defend this BS). That should give people less reasons to complain about HRs, while still giving HRs something to counter other classes with as well.
Also to the people asking where all the "top pvp hr players" have gone - they're still here. Just not generally inclined to reply to BS.
HRs are not as weak as people think they are, nor as they as strong as other people think they are.
In terms of 1v1s with other classes, this is what HR is currently at (talking about BiS gear/build levels - no, this is not your bad spec'd, non-FOTM HR):
HR vs TR: TR wins. You won't even win against scrubs if they're geared. CoS spam is too uncounterable, and your burst damage capability is too low.
HR vs GWF: 50-50, if GWF manages to land crit rotation with Destroyer stacks up, GWF wins, if HR can outheal and avoid the damage, HR will win. Until avalanche procs, that is.
HR vs GF: IV GF loses to HR, SM GF should win, but only if they can one rotate. Oh yeah, this applies usually, up until you get totally wrecked by 30k avalanche procs. This is why I don't stay anywhere near pink GFs when I'm fighting them.
HR vs CW: 50-50, HR is naturally weak to CC from CWs, but CWs are also weak to HR dazes, so it will depend on build, skill and ping. Lagging even minusculely against a CW using Spell Twisting is pretty much instant KO unless you use Oghma's Token.
HR vs DC: stalemate against Faithful, not sure about DPS DCs though. With fire wheel, might be possible to win against a Faithful DC.
HR vs OP: stalemate, until the OP oneshots you with that daily that you missed your dodge on, after you dodged the first 3. With fire wheel, I think it might be possible to win against an OP.
HR vs SW: honestly, I think the HR loses here, unless you go full permadaze spec. Also depends on where the fight is. Offnode? Good luck. On node? WB is a pain, but if you time dazes properly it's probably a win. If they're (ab)using wheel multiprocs? Run away or use your own.
HR vs HR: HR with higher ping should hit ESC, and "Exit". Or whoever crits CA first. GG random interrupts. I didn't even know HR 1v1s still existed. Not since Module 5 Trapper.
That being said, the dazes, roots, procs and other BS that the HR is right now is pretty dumb. Roots needs to be changed to be dodgeable. Swiftness of the Fox and possibly Forestbond should be reworked. With cooldown reductions like that reduced in effectiveness so that encounters and dazes aren't totally spammable, I think Crushing Roots (dazes) should be okay, although a cooldown may still be in order (something like 5 seconds on strong root dazes, and 2-3 seconds on weak roots, possibly longer though).
However, if you do nerf those things, you need to buff HR damage. HR is very reliant on procs for damage right now, such as the Lostmauth set, Thorned Roots, and some other things, and even then you still need a good amount of time before you can kill people. HR damage will only get worse once they fix Armor Penetration resistance in tenacity (which currently does not work at all, so tanks take a lot more damage than they should). I dislike the fact that HR is so reliant on procs now. It'd be nice to have things like Thorned Roots toned down so that it's not a crucial part of your damage, while having damage of encounters and powers that need targeting and take some sort of skill to land, such as Fox Shift, increased so that they're worthwhile slotting (Fox Shift - currently worst damage dealing power in PvP for HRs right now; exaggeration, but you get the point).
Right now, as it stands, PvP HRs have some of the worst per-encounter damage as it is. Overall damage is more "damage per second" rather than "burst damage", as is the meta right now, which I guess is why HR /can/ be considered weaker in certain settings. Overall, over time, HR does deal more DPS than most other classes (running ACT logs, I actually will end up dealing more damage than a DPS spec conqueror GF in a standard PvP match), but it's not as fast as other classes. This is why you need to spec for survival as well as damage - a dead HR does no damage. A PvP DPS race over time, you should win over most classes because HRs have the most continuous DPS out of all classes. TRs, of course, being the exception here.
Buff HR base damage (do NOT increase damage on the weapons, or you can and will break many many things with the class and make it OP), put an ICD on the roots (separate strong and weak roots, please), nerf Swiftness of the Fox and Forestbond so that spamming encounters continuously is no longer a thing (there is absolutely no reason to defend this BS). That should give people less reasons to complain about HRs, while still giving HRs something to counter other classes with as well.
Also to the people asking where all the "top pvp hr players" have gone - they're still here. Just not generally inclined to reply to BS.
I ran into a particular HR yesterday in GG that put me into stun lock for 6 - 8 seconds each time. I figured he was taking advantage of the endless range spam, so looked at the parse after the match. His longest stunlock was 13 seconds against another player (1 stun ever second - there were a few occasions where there was a 2 second gap between stuns here and there and a few occassions where there were multiple stuns a second).
Anyway he was doing it without even utilizing the endless ranged cooldown. Instead he was just using some stealth and very good stance switching.
The PVP gear does not help with this since it's the frequency of the stuns not the duration of each stun.
I will say, this particular HR was very good.
are you sure look at your encounter bar? and never found it availabe even in 0.5s?
if that HR can totaly stunlock you for the entire 13s then his crit change and luck RNG must be great
give a vid of a 13s HR totally stunlock with you using burning set 40% control resist and we start discussing
For the vast majority of players doing pvp out there the daze is very much permanent because they are unlikely to have 2k+ tenacity or Control Resist stat. Regardless of how many/few HRs there are on the leaderboard (which is broken btw) does not excuse that the perma-daze mechanic is ****e and skill-less and needs to go.
i guess you don't play PVP often, if you talk about player being stunlocked which not use PVP equip, pug who not use pvp equip againts premade is toast either it's from stunlocked HR or 1 rotate kill from any class except DC
you say broken.. let's definition broken here..
in overall PVP mekanic in universal game stunlocking is broken yes i agree with you here, but we talking about NW here..
you can call sommething balance is when you compare the other class capability and say "Hey it's balance" some of them got perfect survival ability(TR) CC breaker and DR+temp HP(GWF), stunlocking+ shield and 1 rotate kill(CW), semi-immortal(DC), 3 shot kill and mitigation damage(GF), temp hp and 1 shot kill daily(OP)
don't judge 1 class but judge overall pvp mekanic
CR is only works on class that don't have cc breaker and can be countered with short animation encounter, basicaly CR is forcing CW to slot Repel, and for DC is sunburst when against HR
you can't get encounter setup that fit every opponent
thats not possible. hr stuns are only .5 seconds at rank 4.
Yes it is possible. That's with 4 pieces of pvp armor.
It's not the duration that kills you, it is the constant interrupt.
Yes the encounter become available, but you are interrupted before they will activate.
You can get off a quick cast when they have the 2 sec delay, but the 1 sec delays seem to interrupt anything.
Also there is a feat to increase the stun duration by a minor amount.
Yes it is possible. That's with 4 pieces of pvp armor.
It's not the duration that kills you, it is the constant interrupt. Yes the encounter become available, but you are interrupted before they will activate.
You can get off a quick cast when they have the 2 sec delay, but the 1 sec delays seem to interrupt anything.
Also there is a feat to increase the stun duration by a minor amount.
that's why you need to use short animation encounter
the fact that you recognize 2s delay that's mean you are survive the rotation and got a change to counter attack and when HR got stunlocked by CW pretty much dead meat
don't brand HR with permadaze that TR mod 5 have
don't brand HR with stunlocking that CW have
it's constant interrupt and it's counterable
seriuslly l2p
that's why you need to use short animation encounter, seriuslly l2p
What shall we use that is shorter that Repel or Oppressive Force sensei? Because I'm not aware of much that would go on a bar and interupt the chain besides those 2.
Perhaps you should run into some perma stun HRs & figure it out for yourself?
You will never get EF or Chill Strike off & Icy Rays doesn't break the chain.
And since you edited your post:
The 2 seconds is when you get in the Repel or OF. Repel really doesn't do much usually as the proper response is to stealth & reapply the chain. OF can result in a kill if they don't dodge it.
Comments
1. Slot all your defense slot with Silvery Enchantment. (deflect)
2. Pick up Fey Thirst (whatever it spells, the boon that deals up to 3000 dmg on deflect)
3. Negation armor to keep yourself more tanky
Now when you fight HR, all you need to do is heal yourself when you can, and watch them kill themselves with the deflect damage they deal to themselves. :O
Author of GWF Speed Demon PvP Build (Mod 11) <- Click to reveal the Speedy Beast! >:)
I'm using short animation encounters. Thanks for trying though. However, without astral shield/bastion my DC is pretty useless. Also, even with 40% CC resist, I don't have time to cast sunburst. Not even one sacred flame.
I've considered a negation, however, a nerf is inevitable so that's only a short term solution. Still I shouldn't have to redo my build for one single class abusing a broken mechanic. I have no trouble against any other class, can hold the ground 2 or 3 vs 1 as long as I'm not stunlocked, and while i'm ok with stunlocks when I'm against half of the other team, in a 1 vs 1 situation, it's not acceptable.
Look at your encounter bar slot
when you being dazed by HR there some interval time when your encounter available just spawn sunburst and mess HR rotation
if not then you facing premade HR with high crit and nice RNG luck that can apply weak grasping 25% change when doing crit
lets say HR got 50% crit change 50%*25%= 12.5% change
it's RNG baby
So you wanna have a build that can dominate every class? Try TR or CW
U want nerf a class that is the bugged class in this mod, the class whit the worst damage and the worst defense, just coz che stun a cw and a dc, only this 2 class ah, but we cant kill this 2 class....
We cant stun the broken class TR that kill us whit daggers, we cant stun gf that kill us whit 2 skills, we cant stun gwf when go in zerk, and give us a couple of hit and kill us, we cant do absolutly nothing vs the op one of the most broken class now like now.
So 85% of the post here are of ppls that play broken class that need now to be nerfed:
Cw
GF
OP
and u have the courage to ask to nerf the hr rotation, once again, L2P cry baby, u can say evrything u want, you know nothing about pvp,about how class works. So u want a nerf?? dont say here,there, this, than. Just say, i m a cry baby, i dont know how to use my char, i want to be immortal vs evry class, nerf all class excpet mine. I can understand a cry baby that write this, but not some1 who say i know pvp, i know all classes eccc.
For the 100 times answer: why in the first 100 pages there are maybe 50 hr whit kill/death 2/1??
Why no1 want an hr on premade pvp?
Why pvp guild dont use hr on their premade??
Where are the top hr players in this mod??
Why no1 post a video where an hr whit same equip level kill: dc? cw?op?tr?gwf?gf??
ANSWER THIS,before write the same no sense and brainless things, never saw a comunty like this, than u say why the game is in this condition, full of bugs, and bronek classes, it s worst than a BETA.
Please. Stop. Defending. Your. Broken. Class.
It's embarrassing...
For the vast majority of players doing pvp out there the daze is very much permanent because they are unlikely to have 2k+ tenacity or Control Resist stat. Regardless of how many/few HRs there are on the leaderboard (which is broken btw) does not excuse that the perma-daze mechanic is ****e and skill-less and needs to go.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
Ok fine now we put a idc on daze -ups Hr no longer is played very efficent indeed.
I dont know your histrory but I can read between the lines your a Archer and I must admit I think your envious about Trapper and want Archer to be the chosen path.
I am fine with idc or removal of daze IF;
All cc chains from all classes that kills are removed every single one that can lock down and kill other players
Arpen is applayed to roots
Control bonus is applayed to root
An average of at last 30% more dps is given to Hrs
Major buggs like wild med not working as wai is adressed
We are given a reliable dodge mechanic
That will do for now before this is fixed dont touch daze as it is among the least game breaking things going on at this game atm with Hr being the over all WEAKEST class.
So yea stop defending daze and fix this and we are in agreement because demanding a nerf to the Hr class atm with Cws and Trs being what they are that is embarrassing...............
Yet another Tr Clown having the guts to speak of Hrs wanting to be OP after defending Tr whole module 5. After Mirror/Kweassa your Morenthar takes the second place of being the worst troll clown this forum has ever seen.
Shall we go though numbers of Hrs on Leaderboard and Kd ratio again to a Tr asking for nerfs of the weakest class ingame with who has the a Kd ratio 5 times better then any other class.
Reality check Mr Morenthar isent you speciality is it - even if this is a fantazy game it doesent mean it is your fantazy game where Tr walks like Gods among men... Lest be very very happy indeed your not the GM over this world....
Look Marnival, I understand your point of view in that without this mechanic HRs are just about as useful as a lvl 1 striker companion, but it doesn't excuse the fact that perma-daze is wrong as should never even have made it past the QA team. While I am in full agreement that we have tonnes of <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> that needs fixing and in desperate need a damage boost, I cannot stand by and defend this BS that I see Trappers pulling off in pvp.
Yes I have an Archer, but I only do pvp on him for the Burning gear, which I completed last night so I prolly won't be running GG much on him anymore. My Combat HR is the toon I made for pvp, however, and the one I am basing my experiences on. I have no desire to play "FotM for 2 Mods" Trapper so I can assure you that envy has nothing to do with my comments. First and foremost I play pvp for fun and the diversity it provides, but not being able to do a single thing in most combat situations due to stunlocking is not even remotely fun.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
If other changes will come, this one will be more than welcomed.
Would love to be back to aspect of the serpent
Never liked anything that prevents you from playing that is locking down your toon with ccs.
Now that said Hr cc daze chain is not the only so one of the few that gives the opponent a chanse to survive simple due to the extremely low damage of the Hrs whish in turn lead to a very long time to kill with daze.
Gwf 2 cc 3 sec kill
Gf 2-3 cc chain 4 sec kill
Cw depending on set up cc 3-6 sec kill
Tr well can kill from 1-5 sec depending on set up
Pal 1 sec instand kill even withtout cc
Sw can if right build with crit kill of non tanks also
Hr cc chain daze kill basicly 4 full rotations at least with a daily stun or 2 15 sec +
As I said earlier fix alot of other stuff first because starting with the WEAKEST CLASS FIRST when we know cryptic will take hole expansions and modules to fix other thingss is not acceptable in my book- simple as that........
"...I grab my wiener and charge!" - ironzerg79
That's the OP's standard response pretty much everywhere else.
"...I grab my wiener and charge!" - ironzerg79
So you dont play Hr then tell me what class DO you play- right now we have somebody telling a Hr the weakest class in nw atm to l2p so educate us with what class you belong to instead of giving smart-as*s stupid no good comments mkay....
I wish you all well and hope to see after you have geared correctly then it will be a much more fun PVP. My only gripe with pvp is teams sitting at the other teams respawn and decimating them this is wrong and will destroy the new PVPers that PVP needs to survive
jhp
HR's "offensive capabilities" are non existent. Perhaps only the fact that roots are bugged and don't respect arpen. Now in all seriousness, DC is the only one with lower offensive capabilities and I say that because I don't see many dps DC around, so this might not even be true. As far as OP goes, yes, they have lower dps overall, but have a crazy damage oneshot daily. All HR who know what they are talking about want to get rid of the dependency on crushing roots and get incresed damage and bugfixes in return, more or less.
this would be great you are 100% correct I would love to go back to Melee HR but I have found they don't fix things here across the board so classs just get washed out of being competitive which is where HR is right now vs the TR and CW class I prefer to run with our dcs or GF to keep cW and tr off us and then we deal with others as a team seems to be the best plan now
I think if you played every class you would know what your saying is not the same thing as the stunlock from the HR's. Yes a GF can stun you or knock you down, but there is a chance to dodge the anvil almost all the time. I can cast exaltation on my self while he's bull rushing me and take the anvil, cw can repel, same with dodging cw's, there are windows that can be taken advantage of to escape or evade. On my cw, hr, dc, tr once hit with roots there is absolutely **** you can do but sit there until your dead, no chance to dodge, cast buff or do anything really. The perfect elven on my DC helps with the rooting problem for the most part, the daze makes it useless still because by the time the daze wears off you are rooted and dazed again. Logic would dictate that they would not create a pvp porting to this game with multiple classes and varieties to essentially make it just a reactionary mechanic, he he strikes first wins, at least I hope that is not the case.
Anyway he was doing it without even utilizing the endless ranged cooldown. Instead he was just using some stealth and very good stance switching.
The PVP gear does not help with this since it's the frequency of the stuns not the duration of each stun.
I will say, this particular HR was very good.
Agree agree agree and agree.
Now any cc chain removes skill from pvp as it prevents countra mesure per see.
As it stands in todays Pvp in NW Hr with dz chain still end up as the weakest class on the board.
For each scenario you been killed by a Hr you been killed 10 times by stronger abilitys from other stronger classes.
Should Hr daze be on idc - Simple answer YES - the right answer NOT UNTIL OTHER THINGS GET FIXED AT SAME TIME.
You simply can not remove daze from Hr as it is today becasue even WITH IT we are the overall weakest least played least wanted class in NW.
Remove it and Hr is just a pet running runing around to be toyed with and lauged at in lfg channels...
Guess you gotta take NWO with philosophy - accept its not perfect and that it will NEVER be or get the *** out of here
In terms of 1v1s with other classes, this is what HR is currently at (talking about BiS gear/build levels - no, this is not your bad spec'd, non-FOTM HR):
HR vs TR: TR wins. You won't even win against scrubs if they're geared. CoS spam is too uncounterable, and your burst damage capability is too low.
HR vs GWF: 50-50, if GWF manages to land crit rotation with Destroyer stacks up, GWF wins, if HR can outheal and avoid the damage, HR will win. Until avalanche procs, that is.
HR vs GF: IV GF loses to HR, SM GF should win, but only if they can one rotate. Oh yeah, this applies usually, up until you get totally wrecked by 30k avalanche procs. This is why I don't stay anywhere near pink GFs when I'm fighting them.
HR vs CW: 50-50, HR is naturally weak to CC from CWs, but CWs are also weak to HR dazes, so it will depend on build, skill and ping. Lagging even minusculely against a CW using Spell Twisting is pretty much instant KO unless you use Oghma's Token.
HR vs DC: stalemate against Faithful, not sure about DPS DCs though. With fire wheel, might be possible to win against a Faithful DC.
HR vs OP: stalemate, until the OP oneshots you with that daily that you missed your dodge on, after you dodged the first 3. With fire wheel, I think it might be possible to win against an OP.
HR vs SW: honestly, I think the HR loses here, unless you go full permadaze spec. Also depends on where the fight is. Offnode? Good luck. On node? WB is a pain, but if you time dazes properly it's probably a win. If they're (ab)using wheel multiprocs? Run away or use your own.
HR vs HR: HR with higher ping should hit ESC, and "Exit". Or whoever crits CA first. GG random interrupts. I didn't even know HR 1v1s still existed. Not since Module 5 Trapper.
That being said, the dazes, roots, procs and other BS that the HR is right now is pretty dumb. Roots needs to be changed to be dodgeable. Swiftness of the Fox and possibly Forestbond should be reworked. With cooldown reductions like that reduced in effectiveness so that encounters and dazes aren't totally spammable, I think Crushing Roots (dazes) should be okay, although a cooldown may still be in order (something like 5 seconds on strong root dazes, and 2-3 seconds on weak roots, possibly longer though).
However, if you do nerf those things, you need to buff HR damage. HR is very reliant on procs for damage right now, such as the Lostmauth set, Thorned Roots, and some other things, and even then you still need a good amount of time before you can kill people. HR damage will only get worse once they fix Armor Penetration resistance in tenacity (which currently does not work at all, so tanks take a lot more damage than they should). I dislike the fact that HR is so reliant on procs now. It'd be nice to have things like Thorned Roots toned down so that it's not a crucial part of your damage, while having damage of encounters and powers that need targeting and take some sort of skill to land, such as Fox Shift, increased so that they're worthwhile slotting (Fox Shift - currently worst damage dealing power in PvP for HRs right now; exaggeration, but you get the point).
Right now, as it stands, PvP HRs have some of the worst per-encounter damage as it is. Overall damage is more "damage per second" rather than "burst damage", as is the meta right now, which I guess is why HR /can/ be considered weaker in certain settings. Overall, over time, HR does deal more DPS than most other classes (running ACT logs, I actually will end up dealing more damage than a DPS spec conqueror GF in a standard PvP match), but it's not as fast as other classes. This is why you need to spec for survival as well as damage - a dead HR does no damage. A PvP DPS race over time, you should win over most classes because HRs have the most continuous DPS out of all classes. TRs, of course, being the exception here.
Buff HR base damage (do NOT increase damage on the weapons, or you can and will break many many things with the class and make it OP), put an ICD on the roots (separate strong and weak roots, please), nerf Swiftness of the Fox and Forestbond so that spamming encounters continuously is no longer a thing (there is absolutely no reason to defend this BS). That should give people less reasons to complain about HRs, while still giving HRs something to counter other classes with as well.
Also to the people asking where all the "top pvp hr players" have gone - they're still here. Just not generally inclined to reply to BS.
Yours sincerely,
Sandstorm Varracht
Lol Rekd
/10char
are you sure look at your encounter bar? and never found it availabe even in 0.5s?
if that HR can totaly stunlock you for the entire 13s then his crit change and luck RNG must be great
give a vid of a 13s HR totally stunlock with you using burning set 40% control resist and we start discussing
i guess you don't play PVP often, if you talk about player being stunlocked which not use PVP equip, pug who not use pvp equip againts premade is toast either it's from stunlocked HR or 1 rotate kill from any class except DC
you say broken.. let's definition broken here..
in overall PVP mekanic in universal game stunlocking is broken yes i agree with you here, but we talking about NW here..
you can call sommething balance is when you compare the other class capability and say "Hey it's balance" some of them got perfect survival ability(TR) CC breaker and DR+temp HP(GWF), stunlocking+ shield and 1 rotate kill(CW), semi-immortal(DC), 3 shot kill and mitigation damage(GF), temp hp and 1 shot kill daily(OP)
don't judge 1 class but judge overall pvp mekanic
CR is only works on class that don't have cc breaker and can be countered with short animation encounter, basicaly CR is forcing CW to slot Repel, and for DC is sunburst when against HR
you can't get encounter setup that fit every opponent
Yes it is possible. That's with 4 pieces of pvp armor.
It's not the duration that kills you, it is the constant interrupt.
Yes the encounter become available, but you are interrupted before they will activate.
You can get off a quick cast when they have the 2 sec delay, but the 1 sec delays seem to interrupt anything.
Also there is a feat to increase the stun duration by a minor amount.
that's why you need to use short animation encounter
the fact that you recognize 2s delay that's mean you are survive the rotation and got a change to counter attack and when HR got stunlocked by CW pretty much dead meat
don't brand HR with permadaze that TR mod 5 have
don't brand HR with stunlocking that CW have
it's constant interrupt and it's counterable
seriuslly l2p
What shall we use that is shorter that Repel or Oppressive Force sensei? Because I'm not aware of much that would go on a bar and interupt the chain besides those 2.
Perhaps you should run into some perma stun HRs & figure it out for yourself?
You will never get EF or Chill Strike off & Icy Rays doesn't break the chain.
And since you edited your post:
The 2 seconds is when you get in the Repel or OF. Repel really doesn't do much usually as the proper response is to stealth & reapply the chain. OF can result in a kill if they don't dodge it.
Seriously learn to play yourself.