People will really enjoy this update if you release it (exp->RP). It would improve the player's morale to know it's possible again to progress by playing the game. It would solve the huge concern people have with the RP system (that and add the option to stash in full stacks of RP stones in your item at once)
Because at the current state people gave up the whole idea, people who have yellow equipment either paid alot of money for it, or they've done it with botted RP, which is not possible anymore.
Other things to consider: improvement to dragon's hoard and telling us if yes or not there's an internal cooldown etc
I am the monk, martial skill transcends the battlefield
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
Why cant we get a answer at this juncture? Do you think we at this point care if detailing work is being done on open world zones? Most of us could care less at this stage. The # 1 concern is right here and you keep putting dev blog posts up about a hamster or something..
For the love of..
FIX RP .
I've said this several times already: I do not expect a dev response. Posting "why haven't the devs responded yet?"--especially in light of the fact that we have seen released content on preview that points to changes in the invocation system that gives a chance for better RP-related rewards and increased drops in enchantments (which, admittedly, only affects relics but is a change nonetheless)--is hardly a productive response. It's not a cure all, and I think only affects the tip of the iceberg, but it's a step in the right direction. The devs have their plates full with other work and if they could spare the time for even a one-sentence answer, I'd be surprised. Nevertheless, the purpose of the thread is NOT for the devs to grace us with a response, but rather to bring visibility to the matter at a critical time and provide a means of feedback for the powers that be.
To clarify from the OP:
-Add a RP item to dailies/weeklies and make the RP item fit the frequency of the quest. : This is currently reflected in the quests on Preview. While it could still use some tweaking, it is a start.
-RP items in epic dungeon chests.: Nothing on this yet.
-Increase the quality of RP stones from weekly invocation coffers, and make an RP stone a guaranteed item. : Again, this is on the invocation coffers introduced on Preview. It's roughly only a one tier increase, but welcomed.
-For those who wish to utilize the ZEN store, lower the cost of Blood Rubies by at least 30% : Nothing here, however, this is the least likely of the suggestions to be addressed, IMO.
Bottom line: Sometimes actions state more than a meaningless or cryptic (no pun intended) one-line reply from a blue name.
ROLL TIDE ROLL
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
Posts which demand a dev response will be removed from this point forward in accordance with both the topic of this thread and Rules of Conduct, section 3.15.
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ROLL TIDE ROLL
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
-For those who wish to utilize the ZEN store, lower the cost of Blood Rubies by at least 30% : Nothing here, however, this is the least likely of the suggestions to be addressed, IMO.
Well... then they have a big problem, and probably we do too. Coz if this wont get changed, nothing will, coz simple reason. If they will ad better RP sources (im spekaing here about RP items for eq artis, not **** enchants/runestones) those rubies will be bought next time like... never. And if they want keep at least the lowest sale of them, they cant give us new RP sources or repalce old with better options. They should probably take from us RP sources, if they want to keep sale.
Ehhh... even blind whale knows that better source of RP is AH, not Zen store...
Do u understand this vicious circle?
(Sin)cerely
Kain
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khimera906Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 898Arc User
They're not in a good place right now, and they have only themselves to blame for it. On one hand they have everyone mad at them for this uninspired RP mess, and on the other they need to make money. I think PR should have never been put in the Zen Market, in the first place. For almost two years we've been asking for a lot of things that could be easily monetized and we get ignored. I find nothing of interest in the Zen Market, except for a couple of mounts I haven't bought yet, and I want.
I hate dancing with Lady Luck. She always steps on my toes.
Lew, I think you should add the changes to the refinement UI to allow dragging full stacks in the interface.. or a rework, the first being more likely IMO. Currently putting so many stackso of peridot/low level enchants in my artifact are quite a drag
Also, the exp->rp system, which I believe is the best solution ever suggested. Adding more RP to the table simple adds salt, if we get twice as much RP as before but now we need twice as many RP we made no progress at all.
The problem lies within rewarding players for playing the game without breaking the market, bots cant sell exp, cryptic can sell exp boosters, the exp->rp system isn't too OP, it's consistent and makes players feel rewarded for playing and doing their dailies, 40k exp a day on your artifact for playing trough your dailies in 2 hours is much much more satisfying than getting 3 peridots and a couple white pearls from the enchant that is required to have end game progression now, people shouldn't be limited to absolutely have dragons hoard enchants to be able to progress in the game, it should be granted for playing.
The exp -RP system does that
I am the monk, martial skill transcends the battlefield
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
edited February 2015
THE very least they should do is remove cool-down on dragon hoard and cap percentage at 15% or something.
Thats pretty high anyways, most of my toons are 5-6%.
Better incentive to farm at least, because right now its boring, Its watch water boil, paint dry, paint by numbers tv show boring..
They stated in a stream awhile back, that the purpose was to create a fun environment, they have totally failed at that objective.
RP is a mess, it creates massive imbalances and I frankly fail how they make money on it. NO one pays for such a small gain of RP vs money cost. There is literally no one I know that has spent money directly on RP to do that. I know there are thousands of players, but I figure I would stumble across someone, somewhere that might have.
The vast majority of players I know that have legendaries, got them by pre buying RP and storing it and using it on double RP weekend.
There is 1 or 2 people who got to legendary on ONE OR TWO items on ONE toon by farming. This is one of my major complaints as you have virtually locked thousands of players out of pvp (and the queue times show it, it takes FOREVER to get a match and once you do, even if you are on a week toon , a high % of the time, you are going against premades, that just BLOW you away)
Congrats, winning at farming is the worst title in the game. I feel sad when people defend this.
WHAT I would do is thus: reduce cool-down on dragon hoards, add RP to Dungeons, add random RP drops like enchants (so peridots drop on occasion and aquamarines drop from major hes) and THEN make every LEVEL of enchant give you something.
So each bracket you have say its 25 , each level you rank up you get 1/25th of the damage on it, you still can have the gate mechanisms, those open up slots/added bonus features (like offhand or +1 wisdom stats) but this way as you slowly work your way to legendary, you are NOT that far off on damage base, reducing power creep to more acceptable levels.
There are so many great options, so many player feedbacks AS FAR back as mod 4 on grind acceptable levels.
We DO not want to spend our time IN game solo farming RP, its by far the worst sort of MMO PVE in any game.
Doing a campaign has a feel of actually accomplishing something, doing this is just terrible and boring.
Here is an idea for the interface. You can easily create a new item called "refinement pouch" What this pouch would do is anything you put into the pouch would turn into an RP amount. Then you can put this Pouch into an item or artifact and it would use all the RP inside.
So basically you could take a stack of 99 peridots, drag the entire stack into the pouch, it would consume the peridots and when you hover over the pouch it would say:
"Contains 49,500 refinement points for use" (99*500)
This would be a real quick fix to the system. Heck you could even have it consume the pouch but make them free from the vendor or something.
Possibly stupid question for people that want to be able to use a whole stack of something at a time for refinement: How should that handle crits? Should a stack of 99 roll separately for each part of the stack? One roll for the whole stack? Or give up on a chance to crit for the convenience of being able to use the whole stack at once?
RP just needs to be added to content that bots simply cannot do (dungeons, tiamat etc). Make it an amount that it actually worth while. If people got a Blue Sapphire that was tradeable for each tier 2 dungeon they did people would flock back to dungeons and give a reason for people to play the game. Even people with BIS would do because they could make AD doing the dungeons. This would combat bots as well (someone actually playing would gain the same RP in a few hours as a bot in a full 24 hours). It would not longer be worth it to bot, the only reason its done now is people cannot play the game and get enough to make a difference. Also higher items like sappires (5k rp each) would make the refinement system run more smoothly. A person would not have to spend hours clicking to upgrade an item.
RP just needs to be added to content that bots simply cannot do (dungeons, tiamat etc).
This is the bottom line of the RP system.
We need to be generously rewarded for content that cannot be botted.
This is why things like Blood Rubies/Black Opals need to come in DD chests and a MUCH MUCH higher reward for epic items when used for RP.
At the end of the day thats what it really boils down to. Then you can remove the CD on dragon Hoard enchants. Or even if you put a 10 sec ICD on them to make it so its unlikely you would ever get double drops from a single mob pack.
Then you can run a dungeon, use an epic for RP and get a good amount of it (25k+) You can get a black opal from the DD chest and keep doing that until you have enough. Add in DH enchants and you should be reasonable able to farm 50k RP in one dungeon run (including an epic drop used for RP).
The rate at which you earn RP towards artifact equipment needs to outpace the rate in which you earn RP for everything else. This is ONLY possibly through ITEMS being used for RP.
Do peridots crit? Never saw. Sapphire? Nope. Black opals? Nope. So what's the problem? Rank 1-6 enchs crit. Who cares? 200/99 peridot stacks will take forever. Kinda stupid not use whole stuck at once.
Peridots (not sure about others) actually can crit if you put them together with items, that can naturally crit, e.g. 4 blue pieces of gear + 1 peridot, the latter will have a chance to crit for 750/1000 rp.
M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
Peridots (not sure about others) actually can crit if you put them together with items, that can naturally crit, e.g. 4 blue pieces of gear + 1 peridot, the latter will have a chance to crit for 750/1000 rp.
Now that's interesting. I hardly ever mix stones and gear, so I've never seen this. Stones definitely can't crit when refined with nothing but other stones.
Now that's interesting. I hardly ever mix stones and gear, so I've never seen this. Stones definitely can't crit when refined with nothing but other stones.
Makes me wonder if it's a bug that rp stones cannot crit on their own.
M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
edited February 2015
The alternative being that it's a bug that they can crit if mixed with items that do, which has gone undiscovered because most people don't mix them. (With apologies to everyone I've ever said probably wasn't remembering right about that one time they said they swear they saw a pearl crit.)
Glad i found this thread. I am a player that plays neverwinter ALOT. But i have only 1 artifact on legendary and that is because the RP was so cheap before mod5.
I play several hours everyday. I put everything in my mainhand and my offhand all the time. But they are stuck at lvl 40 and 45 (epic). Its not moving ANYWHERE.
I bought alot of ZEN before mod5 also, and made AD from it, but i still dont have legendary gear. I stopped buying zen now because it seemed like i was not getting anywhere with my playing or my money spending.
The requirements for leveling up artifact gear and artifacts seriously got to decrease. Its kinda demotivating players to play at all.
I would really for once like to get Best in Slot before new gear was released.
The alternative being that it's a bug that they can crit if mixed with items that do, which has gone undiscovered because most people don't mix them. (With apologies to everyone I've ever said probably wasn't remembering right about that one time they said they swear they saw a pearl crit.)
It's definitely got to be a bug one way or the other. I wonder which way it is.
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
edited February 2015
Feedback: bag space One of the selling points for the refinement system was that it would help us clean up our bags, and depending on the individual player's approach, it did or could. If you took all your runes and enchants and dumped them into one item (enchantment or artifact) you were working on upgrading, you wouldn't have tons of inventory duff laying about. The only people who still ended up with problems were those carrying around multiple enchants they were in the process of upgrading, due to a lack of mark drops or whatever.
Whatever help was provided to inventory management has been pretty effectively undone due to the introduction of more and more refining items, which can now come in bound and unbound versions which will not stack together, coupled with the encouragement that we save these items for double refining events, which are one way in which Heyrogers said Cryptic intended to help us manage the crazy refinement requirements for all the items they were introducing. Plus anyone trying to maximize the RP they're getting out of gear drops needs to hang onto different item types (neck, belt, main hand, off hand) until they can offload those into a matching item, and gear doesn't stack.
It *was* sensible to refine as you went when you had an artifact or maybe two, and some enchants, and maybe not a whole lot of expectation that you'd take them that high anyway, and most importantly, had never heard of such a thing as a double refining event. Now? Refining as you go when the goals already seem insurmountable but you can stretch your RP twice as far provided you're willing to wait? That's totally crazy, man. Hoard those suckers as long as you can hold out.And so we overflow our storage worse than ever because we've got stack and stacks of more kinds of things than existed when we moved from the fuse-4 system to refinement in the first place.
More levels on your existing stuff, plus more enchant slots to fill, and another artifact slot? Save the RP, because double refinement is your only (faint) hope to even put a dent in it all.
Bug?: crits leave us with enchants we can't stack It used to be mostly possible to manage filling up an enchant with refining points so that it would come out exactly even. You had to be a bit obsessive to do it, but there's nothing wrong with that while trying to keep things tidy and avoid waste. Every so often a crit would mess up the system at the last possible second, but we could essentially count on everything coming out in numbers divisible by 5 and 10. For some reason, crits don't leave us with these round numbers anymore, so there we are needing 3 more points to fill our enchant to upgrade, when you cannot possibly feed it fewer than 5. Those few points over prevent the enchant we make from stacking with others of the same type, and pretty much every higher rank enchant these days ends up being at least a few points over. It's irksome.
Glad i found this thread. I am a player that plays neverwinter ALOT. But i have only 1 artifact on legendary and that is because the RP was so cheap before mod5.
I play several hours everyday. I put everything in my mainhand and my offhand all the time. But they are stuck at lvl 40 and 45 (epic). Its not moving ANYWHERE.
I bought alot of ZEN before mod5 also, and made AD from it, but i still dont have legendary gear. I stopped buying zen now because it seemed like i was not getting anywhere with my playing or my money spending.
The requirements for leveling up artifact gear and artifacts seriously got to decrease. Its kinda demotivating players to play at all.
I would really for once like to get Best in Slot before new gear was released.
Everything you state, is the summation of what we have brought up, the current system, DOESNT motivate players to stick around and play and PAY crytpic money, it does the opposite.
I simply put a few lessers on all of my toons, whatever drops I just save them (which creates bag space issues in the meantime)
I DO not bother with greens, I cant IMAGINE doing that, I know others who do, but what a pita all around this has been.
THE suggestion that we can dump everything into a refinement bag is a good one.
Everything you state, is the summation of what we have brought up, the current system, DOESNT motivate players to stick around and play and PAY crytpic money, it does the opposite.
I simply put a few lessers on all of my toons, whatever drops I just save them (which creates bag space issues in the meantime)
I DO not bother with greens, I cant IMAGINE doing that, I know others who do, but what a pita all around this has been.
THE suggestion that we can dump everything into a refinement bag is a good one.
I mean by this point all that is going to be said has been said, we can only hope that they listen. At the end of the day they need to give us MUCH more RP for actual epic gear - its one of the fewer items bots cannot "farm" - to a degree.
Then they need to put Epic RP stones into DD chests.
Then they need to look at how much RP each thing gives. Just as a real short snippet, what I think is VERY reasonable is ANY item used for RP gives you AS MUCH RP as was invested INTO it.
What this means is if you take a rank 7 enchant, and you use IT for RP, it would give you the total RP it took to get TO rank 7. This makes bots farming rank 3/4s obsolete since you can just buy ONE rank 7 and its equivalent to all the rank 3/4s.
It also means you can take an artifact equipment item (belt) and decide to change your mind into a different belt and it would give you ALL the RP needed for the change, all then YOU would have to do is pay for the regents to upgrade along with the wards, etc.
Also it means you could take a maxed artifact and use IT to swap out to another artifact without any loss BUT the cost of the regents each time it upgrades.
This removes bots, removes the limitations of HEAVILY investing into an item but things change. You can even remove the "crit" function and remove the "like items get doubled" function. You dont need this, just make the **** items much more in RP to begin with.
Now you also wouldnt need double RP weekends, and people could actually FARM for gear.
Think about that though, instead of using stacks of rank 3s or rank 4s for items, you could just buy 1 rank 7 and get the same amount of RP as tons of stacks of rank 4s. So NOW when you upgrade items, you can use those items for future upgrades.
BTW - this math would mean it takes THREE of each level enchant to get to the next level + Mats. 1 rank 7 to be the "upgraded" item. 1 rank 7 used for the RP. 1 rank 7+mats for the required materials.
So whats the problem with this solution?
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silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
edited February 2015
The bag issue is another GREAT issue, its just so ridiculous holding unto so many different types of enchants, bound and unbound, blue items ect.
Here is a little suggestion DROP white pearls, a white pearl is like a troll to players atm.
Regardless of that, I have 2 toons with 5 bags, Say its a twenty slot bag,
That bag is almost entirely filled up of refining stone types (white pearls, peridots, aquamarines, lesser resonance stones, minor ones, flawed sapphires) and then blues, some r4s and the such, its painful to do this all the time.
I dont think they fathom the depth of our loathing on this subject, they think this is regular angst, its not. This whole system needs re-work.
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skyvalker64Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 55Arc User
edited February 2015
What if instead of relying on refinement stones, the equipment would gain experience as we play while having that equipment equipped? Instead of tying normal quest experience to the artifact equipment, it could be a different type of experience which could be tracked in two ways:
1. Since all artifact equipment is combat based, it would get experience based on time spent in active combat OR damage taken/dealt/healed in active combat. You would still need reagents (marks/greater marks) but refinement stones would not be the only way to get experience.
2. The other way can be to have specific experience for what the item is supposed to do.
-> artifact weapons gets experience when you deal damage
-> artifact weapons get bonus experience when you use the class feature/at will that they buff
-> artifact belt gets experience when you use the ability score it gives (CON->HP->heal/damage taken, DEX->crit (for some classes)->crit damage dealt/crits dealt, etc.)
-> artifact cloak gets experience based on action points given (AP gain based cloaks)/damage reduced (AC based cloaks)
While the 2nd way would be a bit more difficult to implement from programming standpoint, it would work very similar to how Skyrim handles progression (you level armor if u get hit, weapons if u score a hit, lockpicking if u actually pick locks etc.)
How can Cryptic monetize this? Have artifact experience boosters and make them give 2x/3x experience gain. This way normal players can hope of getting legendaries one day if they only play enough no. of hours, there will be a tangible upper cap on the no. of hours to spend for leveling the artifacts, they would be able to run the dungeons in Dungeons and Dragons. The paying class of player can still pay for refinement stones/experience boosters or both and get superfast levels by paying. This way it is realistic for both types of players to play the game how they want to.
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
What if instead of relying on refinement stones, the equipment would gain experience as we play while having that equipment equipped? Instead of tying normal quest experience to the artifact equipment, it could be a different type of experience which could be tracked in two ways:
I'm starting to worry that Fey blessing enchantment drops will be made BoP for module 6 , the amount of stacks of 99 from the same players is ridiculous and makes it pretty obvious they are being botted.
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
I'm starting to worry that Fey blessing enchantment drops will be made BoP for module 6 , the amount of stacks of 99 from the same players is ridiculous and makes it pretty obvious they are being botted.
I'm a bit befuddled as to why it isn't already...
"Meanwhile in the moderator's lounge..."
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orangefireeMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,148Arc User
I'm starting to worry that Fey blessing enchantment drops will be made BoP for module 6 , the amount of stacks of 99 from the same players is ridiculous and makes it pretty obvious they are being botted.
Wait, it isn't? I've been getting bound to account enchantments on my main character so I assumed that was from the Fey Blessing Enchantment.
Neverwinter players are stubborn things....until you strip them down to bone. (Cursed players, my flowers, MINE!) Oh how I plotted their demise.
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silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
edited February 2015
So...
We are now expected to go back into tiamat to get new artifact equipment, to put more RP that we dont have into it.
....
....
Those dots are words Im not allowed to post.
But Im sure its the thoughts of many. Wow, just wow.
Comments
Because at the current state people gave up the whole idea, people who have yellow equipment either paid alot of money for it, or they've done it with botted RP, which is not possible anymore.
Other things to consider: improvement to dragon's hoard and telling us if yes or not there's an internal cooldown etc
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
More threads by me / Click on it
My Support Warlock/Temptation Thread
Oh, I have plenty of time to farm. Not that it's the most fun thing to do.
I've said this several times already: I do not expect a dev response. Posting "why haven't the devs responded yet?"--especially in light of the fact that we have seen released content on preview that points to changes in the invocation system that gives a chance for better RP-related rewards and increased drops in enchantments (which, admittedly, only affects relics but is a change nonetheless)--is hardly a productive response. It's not a cure all, and I think only affects the tip of the iceberg, but it's a step in the right direction. The devs have their plates full with other work and if they could spare the time for even a one-sentence answer, I'd be surprised. Nevertheless, the purpose of the thread is NOT for the devs to grace us with a response, but rather to bring visibility to the matter at a critical time and provide a means of feedback for the powers that be.
To clarify from the OP:
-Add a RP item to dailies/weeklies and make the RP item fit the frequency of the quest. : This is currently reflected in the quests on Preview. While it could still use some tweaking, it is a start.
-RP items in epic dungeon chests.: Nothing on this yet.
-Increase the quality of RP stones from weekly invocation coffers, and make an RP stone a guaranteed item. : Again, this is on the invocation coffers introduced on Preview. It's roughly only a one tier increase, but welcomed.
-For those who wish to utilize the ZEN store, lower the cost of Blood Rubies by at least 30% : Nothing here, however, this is the least likely of the suggestions to be addressed, IMO.
Bottom line: Sometimes actions state more than a meaningless or cryptic (no pun intended) one-line reply from a blue name.
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
Posts which demand a dev response will be removed from this point forward in accordance with both the topic of this thread and Rules of Conduct, section 3.15.
Do not reply to this moderator notice, for doing so is not allowed. Instead, contact us via Private Message to discuss forum moderation. Thanks!
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
That said, I honestly could live with there simply being QOL improvements to the Refining interface.
Well... then they have a big problem, and probably we do too. Coz if this wont get changed, nothing will, coz simple reason. If they will ad better RP sources (im spekaing here about RP items for eq artis, not **** enchants/runestones) those rubies will be bought next time like... never. And if they want keep at least the lowest sale of them, they cant give us new RP sources or repalce old with better options. They should probably take from us RP sources, if they want to keep sale.
Ehhh... even blind whale knows that better source of RP is AH, not Zen store...
Do u understand this vicious circle?
(Sin)cerely
Kain
Also, the exp->rp system, which I believe is the best solution ever suggested. Adding more RP to the table simple adds salt, if we get twice as much RP as before but now we need twice as many RP we made no progress at all.
The problem lies within rewarding players for playing the game without breaking the market, bots cant sell exp, cryptic can sell exp boosters, the exp->rp system isn't too OP, it's consistent and makes players feel rewarded for playing and doing their dailies, 40k exp a day on your artifact for playing trough your dailies in 2 hours is much much more satisfying than getting 3 peridots and a couple white pearls from the enchant that is required to have end game progression now, people shouldn't be limited to absolutely have dragons hoard enchants to be able to progress in the game, it should be granted for playing.
The exp -RP system does that
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
More threads by me / Click on it
My Support Warlock/Temptation Thread
Thats pretty high anyways, most of my toons are 5-6%.
Better incentive to farm at least, because right now its boring, Its watch water boil, paint dry, paint by numbers tv show boring..
They stated in a stream awhile back, that the purpose was to create a fun environment, they have totally failed at that objective.
RP is a mess, it creates massive imbalances and I frankly fail how they make money on it. NO one pays for such a small gain of RP vs money cost. There is literally no one I know that has spent money directly on RP to do that. I know there are thousands of players, but I figure I would stumble across someone, somewhere that might have.
The vast majority of players I know that have legendaries, got them by pre buying RP and storing it and using it on double RP weekend.
There is 1 or 2 people who got to legendary on ONE OR TWO items on ONE toon by farming. This is one of my major complaints as you have virtually locked thousands of players out of pvp (and the queue times show it, it takes FOREVER to get a match and once you do, even if you are on a week toon , a high % of the time, you are going against premades, that just BLOW you away)
Congrats, winning at farming is the worst title in the game. I feel sad when people defend this.
WHAT I would do is thus: reduce cool-down on dragon hoards, add RP to Dungeons, add random RP drops like enchants (so peridots drop on occasion and aquamarines drop from major hes) and THEN make every LEVEL of enchant give you something.
So each bracket you have say its 25 , each level you rank up you get 1/25th of the damage on it, you still can have the gate mechanisms, those open up slots/added bonus features (like offhand or +1 wisdom stats) but this way as you slowly work your way to legendary, you are NOT that far off on damage base, reducing power creep to more acceptable levels.
There are so many great options, so many player feedbacks AS FAR back as mod 4 on grind acceptable levels.
We DO not want to spend our time IN game solo farming RP, its by far the worst sort of MMO PVE in any game.
Doing a campaign has a feel of actually accomplishing something, doing this is just terrible and boring.
So basically you could take a stack of 99 peridots, drag the entire stack into the pouch, it would consume the peridots and when you hover over the pouch it would say:
"Contains 49,500 refinement points for use" (99*500)
This would be a real quick fix to the system. Heck you could even have it consume the pouch but make them free from the vendor or something.
This is the bottom line of the RP system.
We need to be generously rewarded for content that cannot be botted.
This is why things like Blood Rubies/Black Opals need to come in DD chests and a MUCH MUCH higher reward for epic items when used for RP.
At the end of the day thats what it really boils down to. Then you can remove the CD on dragon Hoard enchants. Or even if you put a 10 sec ICD on them to make it so its unlikely you would ever get double drops from a single mob pack.
Then you can run a dungeon, use an epic for RP and get a good amount of it (25k+) You can get a black opal from the DD chest and keep doing that until you have enough. Add in DH enchants and you should be reasonable able to farm 50k RP in one dungeon run (including an epic drop used for RP).
The rate at which you earn RP towards artifact equipment needs to outpace the rate in which you earn RP for everything else. This is ONLY possibly through ITEMS being used for RP.
Peridots (not sure about others) actually can crit if you put them together with items, that can naturally crit, e.g. 4 blue pieces of gear + 1 peridot, the latter will have a chance to crit for 750/1000 rp.
Now that's interesting. I hardly ever mix stones and gear, so I've never seen this. Stones definitely can't crit when refined with nothing but other stones.
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Makes me wonder if it's a bug that rp stones cannot crit on their own.
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I play several hours everyday. I put everything in my mainhand and my offhand all the time. But they are stuck at lvl 40 and 45 (epic). Its not moving ANYWHERE.
I bought alot of ZEN before mod5 also, and made AD from it, but i still dont have legendary gear. I stopped buying zen now because it seemed like i was not getting anywhere with my playing or my money spending.
The requirements for leveling up artifact gear and artifacts seriously got to decrease. Its kinda demotivating players to play at all.
I would really for once like to get Best in Slot before new gear was released.
It's definitely got to be a bug one way or the other. I wonder which way it is.
One of the selling points for the refinement system was that it would help us clean up our bags, and depending on the individual player's approach, it did or could. If you took all your runes and enchants and dumped them into one item (enchantment or artifact) you were working on upgrading, you wouldn't have tons of inventory duff laying about. The only people who still ended up with problems were those carrying around multiple enchants they were in the process of upgrading, due to a lack of mark drops or whatever.
Whatever help was provided to inventory management has been pretty effectively undone due to the introduction of more and more refining items, which can now come in bound and unbound versions which will not stack together, coupled with the encouragement that we save these items for double refining events, which are one way in which Heyrogers said Cryptic intended to help us manage the crazy refinement requirements for all the items they were introducing. Plus anyone trying to maximize the RP they're getting out of gear drops needs to hang onto different item types (neck, belt, main hand, off hand) until they can offload those into a matching item, and gear doesn't stack.
It *was* sensible to refine as you went when you had an artifact or maybe two, and some enchants, and maybe not a whole lot of expectation that you'd take them that high anyway, and most importantly, had never heard of such a thing as a double refining event. Now? Refining as you go when the goals already seem insurmountable but you can stretch your RP twice as far provided you're willing to wait? That's totally crazy, man. Hoard those suckers as long as you can hold out. And so we overflow our storage worse than ever because we've got stack and stacks of more kinds of things than existed when we moved from the fuse-4 system to refinement in the first place.
More levels on your existing stuff, plus more enchant slots to fill, and another artifact slot? Save the RP, because double refinement is your only (faint) hope to even put a dent in it all.
Bug?: crits leave us with enchants we can't stack
It used to be mostly possible to manage filling up an enchant with refining points so that it would come out exactly even. You had to be a bit obsessive to do it, but there's nothing wrong with that while trying to keep things tidy and avoid waste. Every so often a crit would mess up the system at the last possible second, but we could essentially count on everything coming out in numbers divisible by 5 and 10. For some reason, crits don't leave us with these round numbers anymore, so there we are needing 3 more points to fill our enchant to upgrade, when you cannot possibly feed it fewer than 5. Those few points over prevent the enchant we make from stacking with others of the same type, and pretty much every higher rank enchant these days ends up being at least a few points over. It's irksome.
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Everything you state, is the summation of what we have brought up, the current system, DOESNT motivate players to stick around and play and PAY crytpic money, it does the opposite.
I simply put a few lessers on all of my toons, whatever drops I just save them (which creates bag space issues in the meantime)
I DO not bother with greens, I cant IMAGINE doing that, I know others who do, but what a pita all around this has been.
THE suggestion that we can dump everything into a refinement bag is a good one.
I mean by this point all that is going to be said has been said, we can only hope that they listen. At the end of the day they need to give us MUCH more RP for actual epic gear - its one of the fewer items bots cannot "farm" - to a degree.
Then they need to put Epic RP stones into DD chests.
Then they need to look at how much RP each thing gives. Just as a real short snippet, what I think is VERY reasonable is ANY item used for RP gives you AS MUCH RP as was invested INTO it.
What this means is if you take a rank 7 enchant, and you use IT for RP, it would give you the total RP it took to get TO rank 7. This makes bots farming rank 3/4s obsolete since you can just buy ONE rank 7 and its equivalent to all the rank 3/4s.
It also means you can take an artifact equipment item (belt) and decide to change your mind into a different belt and it would give you ALL the RP needed for the change, all then YOU would have to do is pay for the regents to upgrade along with the wards, etc.
Also it means you could take a maxed artifact and use IT to swap out to another artifact without any loss BUT the cost of the regents each time it upgrades.
This removes bots, removes the limitations of HEAVILY investing into an item but things change. You can even remove the "crit" function and remove the "like items get doubled" function. You dont need this, just make the **** items much more in RP to begin with.
Now you also wouldnt need double RP weekends, and people could actually FARM for gear.
Think about that though, instead of using stacks of rank 3s or rank 4s for items, you could just buy 1 rank 7 and get the same amount of RP as tons of stacks of rank 4s. So NOW when you upgrade items, you can use those items for future upgrades.
BTW - this math would mean it takes THREE of each level enchant to get to the next level + Mats. 1 rank 7 to be the "upgraded" item. 1 rank 7 used for the RP. 1 rank 7+mats for the required materials.
So whats the problem with this solution?
Here is a little suggestion DROP white pearls, a white pearl is like a troll to players atm.
Regardless of that, I have 2 toons with 5 bags, Say its a twenty slot bag,
That bag is almost entirely filled up of refining stone types (white pearls, peridots, aquamarines, lesser resonance stones, minor ones, flawed sapphires) and then blues, some r4s and the such, its painful to do this all the time.
I dont think they fathom the depth of our loathing on this subject, they think this is regular angst, its not. This whole system needs re-work.
1. Since all artifact equipment is combat based, it would get experience based on time spent in active combat OR damage taken/dealt/healed in active combat. You would still need reagents (marks/greater marks) but refinement stones would not be the only way to get experience.
2. The other way can be to have specific experience for what the item is supposed to do.
-> artifact weapons gets experience when you deal damage
-> artifact weapons get bonus experience when you use the class feature/at will that they buff
-> artifact belt gets experience when you use the ability score it gives (CON->HP->heal/damage taken, DEX->crit (for some classes)->crit damage dealt/crits dealt, etc.)
-> artifact cloak gets experience based on action points given (AP gain based cloaks)/damage reduced (AC based cloaks)
While the 2nd way would be a bit more difficult to implement from programming standpoint, it would work very similar to how Skyrim handles progression (you level armor if u get hit, weapons if u score a hit, lockpicking if u actually pick locks etc.)
How can Cryptic monetize this? Have artifact experience boosters and make them give 2x/3x experience gain. This way normal players can hope of getting legendaries one day if they only play enough no. of hours, there will be a tangible upper cap on the no. of hours to spend for leveling the artifacts, they would be able to run the dungeons in Dungeons and Dragons. The paying class of player can still pay for refinement stones/experience boosters or both and get superfast levels by paying. This way it is realistic for both types of players to play the game how they want to.
I suggested something similar almost 4 months ago...the thread got a overwhelmingly positive response. From the community.
I might pay for a exp gain booster if it made sense (ive done so in other games (when it cut my killing 300 elite giants to 150!)
I'm a bit befuddled as to why it isn't already...
Wait, it isn't? I've been getting bound to account enchantments on my main character so I assumed that was from the Fey Blessing Enchantment.
We are now expected to go back into tiamat to get new artifact equipment, to put more RP that we dont have into it.
....
....
Those dots are words Im not allowed to post.
But Im sure its the thoughts of many. Wow, just wow.
tick tock.