Because that is what happened back when mod4 hit Test server. I did some run test on my own on Sharandar, IWD and DR and compared them all with the numbers i got on live. Results: I did the same 3 routes on different times. When i did a deeper test, i found that my IBS on LIVE hitted for 40k damage or so on live while on test i were lucky to get 20k on test. Then, testing vs powries and cyclops, i notice that my at-wills deal around 3k damage per hit while on test, i barely got 1k per hit. Why is this? because ALL that damage went from our "base" damage to the ****ty mark system. You want more proofs about that "false accusations"? You can do it via "in game" on live: with 8k on Power, a GWF will hit for around the same amount of damage than a GF with 4k on power using both At-wills. GWF's IBS and GF's AoD hits for almost the same amount of damage in the same scenario and so on. So, pls, before calling me a liar or say bull**** about "you did false acussations", ask.
What I commented on is your stupid remark on how power was nerfed for GWF. Power didn't change at all, only base modifiers. That makes your statement that "power was nerfed" a false accusation. And when you put that "power was nerfed for GWF" and "base damage was nerfed" and "that makes it double nerf!" in one line you're just making a fool of yourself.
Just wanted to share this. I took my GWF who has over 11k Power, and did an unbuffed (no mark) intimidation which hit for 9,114.
I dropped him down to 8k Power and did the same thing, he hit for 5,328
So going from 8k->11k Power was over a 70% increase in damage to Intimidation.
This is why when your a 16-18k GS GWF with 8k Power, you cant really do much but when your over 20k GS with 10k+ Power then the build actually works.
So basically, dont play a GWF in PVP unless your over 20k GS because your just worthless. Pretty "good spot" to be in right?
your 8k hit sounds right, but your 11k hit was buffed. You should have hit for 8200-8300 dmg unbuffed. Even so the dmg difference is pretty big and low gear GWF just doesnt stand a chance, but the power difference is also big...
your 8k hit sounds right, but your 11k hit was buffed. You should have hit for 8200-8300 dmg unbuffed. Even so the dmg difference is pretty big and low gear GWF just doesnt stand a chance, but the power difference is also big...
Just retested, you are correct I forgot about my White Dragon enchant giving me another 800 power.
So that was 8k Power and about 11.8k Power. Good catch!
Still highlights the drastic difference here though and how this class for nearly 99% of the players have little to no chance it PVP. Its only when you are at the BIS level that this niche build stands a fighting chance.
Its nearly the opposite of a TR who performs at ANY level of GS with nearly any level of enchants.
Still highlights the drastic difference here though and how this class for nearly 99% of the players have little to no chance it PVP. Its only when you are at the BIS level that this niche build stands a fighting chance.
Its nearly the opposite of a TR who performs at ANY level of GS with nearly any level of enchants.
I agree low gs GWF has serious issues performing in PvP, low gs HR/SW are in the same spot, but for GWF the main problem is the deflected stuns (than again vs other low gs toons this might not be such a problem) since a Cagi-FLS(TD)-IBS combo could work very well even at low GS and IBS is not so power dependent... TR is in another league, at 10k can engage/kill 17k GS of any other class without much problems.
For PvE only choice a low GS GWF has is Destroyer, gear comes pretty easy so are rank 7 enchants. I see no problem in the fact that a high GS GWF can play both pve/pvp with the same build, but as a 24k pvp build i am doing just enough dmg in Tiamat to not be carried, between 700k-1.4mil per Head and that without white glyphs(1-2 rounds grps).
This is why the best overall guides are of Laz/Lia, those can be played at any gs.
clonkyo is right in a way, it isn't a nerf on POWER stat alone, it's just a nerf on the damage your encounter/deal multiplied from db from power.
a CW will hit me with ice knife for 84k crit unmiitigated and i hit around 40-50k crit unmitigated with indomitable stregth, having both the same power of over 9.6k , and i even have
37.5% DB (from destro classfeat) , 50% DB( from destroyer purpose) so the nerf itself it's on the class, because it still has low base damages.
like i said
from scale to 0 - 10.
our at will/base damage it's 0 while our weapon damage it's a 10.
other classes such as CW/TRs/HRs for example their atwill/basedamage it's a 7+ so its the weapon damage 7+ and togheter it's overlappin the max number of 10, meaning it will have a 14 as value. that means either nerf them or buff GWF.
i can already visualize a intimidation build
3500 base damage multiplied with DB+crit sev/CBA etc.
with 11 sec on CAGI and 13 seconds on Daring Shout.
where CAGI gives a buff of 20% flat damage to you and your allies and Daring shout increases the DR tou you and your allies for 5s (both rank 3 ofc)
and unstopable will give you more temporary hitpoints 28%-48% , being affected of healing depression means 14%-24%. the same determination gain.
the difference between GWF and other classes cause i've seen doing 2 difference instances 1 epic lol and the other one Valindra tower. with the same CW on thaumaturg.
on epic lol we finished equally with 8milion damage+ , but on Valindra he beat me for 4-5 milion in advance.
reason is that he
1. has assailant + alot of auto proccing resulting him to deal more AOE damage than me, elol has up to 5 mobs that gang togheter so you cannot deal the same amount like you do in other instances.
2. dailies such as opressive force should have a cap number of 5, and the same with other proccing things/dots etc from CW should apply only on max of 5 players.
i think if it happens this the PVE will be kinda balanced, the same thing should be done with SW/HRs/TRs.
cause the same with HR .
I don't think so. Theres a lot of GWF out there with a descent gear still kicking HAMSTER of the TR and other class except CW.
Ah, the fabled super GWFs. And yet all we have is a vid of Sobek in module 4 tracking down Nanners after, quote, hundred of hours of training vs the best TRs in game, but getting shot down super-fast the rest of the time with a normal K/D ratio and in middle of the match chart. And he is supposed to be the peak of GWF skills.
Other veterans i watch, from Tyrion to PapaBIGN and so on, face the exact same problems listed above by others.
Also people focuses on intimidation, while each path should at least be viable. Instigator needs rework and buff. And piercing damage should disappear cause the supposed GWF tankyness is nothing against damage that ignores it...
no one said GWF lacks damage against TR or DPS CW , but 1 problem against TRs beside being oneshotted by them is that they dont have openings to deal damage.
because they are in stealth/itc either daze or they dodge, this 4 mechanics united+ONESHOTTING it's hard to deal 1v1 agaisnt a TR resulting in GWF doesnt have any openings to beat the TR , cause i dont care really about their damage as i care about my damage, so TR needs a nerf on his surviability more than his damage reduction, and yes a GWF will deal alot of damage IF THE TR IS STAYING STILL, no one said that GWF doesnn't deal damage, understand?
in other words, no other class can surivive facing 1vs2 except the TR, this is what it really unbalance the game, cause we dont need any more node holders !!!!!!
macjae another thing you need to do with those statistics, do them again.
and pick first 15 GWF , first 15 TR , first 15 GFs, first 15 CWs , first 15 hr, first 15 DC , first 15 SW . and we talk about k/d when we have the same amount of players, in that chart.
no one said GWF lacks damage against TR or DPS CW , but 1 problem against TRs beside being oneshotted by them is that they dont have openings to deal damage.
because they are in stealth/itc either daze or they dodge, this 4 mechanics united+ONESHOTTING it's hard to deal 1v1 agaisnt a TR resulting in GWF doesnt have any openings to beat the TR , cause i dont care really about their damage as i care about my damage, so TR needs a nerf on his surviability more than his damage reduction, and yes a GWF will deal alot of damage IF THE TR IS STAYING STILL, no one said that GWF doesnn't deal damage, understand?
in other words, no other class can surivive facing 1vs2 except the TR, this is what it really unbalance the game, cause we dont need any more node holders !!!!!!
macjae another thing you need to do with those statistics, do them again.
and pick first 15 GWF , first 15 TR , first 15 GFs, first 15 CWs , first 15 hr, first 15 DC , first 15 SW . and we talk about k/d when we have the same amount of players, in that chart.
This is exactly what I've stated repeatedly: GWFs currently perform fine at the BiS level, but they are not good at any less than that, and that's likely due to a scaling issue with Intimidation (increasing returns from Power), along with being able to balance stats out better with more overall stat points. GWFs do need help, but in such a way that it doesn't boost the performance of BiS GWFs much (which improving determination would do).
But this is where the disconnect is. Pre-module 4, TRs had zero damage, zero tankiness and ONLY could just dodge around with the perma stealth build. I mean they were worthless EXCEPT for the fact they could contest a node better than any class.
I remember back in mod 3 TRs wouldnt even TRY and fight/deal damage or anything, just continue to run around between CDs and never be killed.
Why do I bring this up? Because on the leaderboards, TRs were still all over the place at the top, they even had excellent K/D ratios too!
But we all can agree they were not "fine" they needed serious rework.
Well that is the status of the GWF class right now. Leaderboard pages dont really tell the whole story because it doesnt measure individual class performance only the classes performance in the TEAM. You dont even need good individual skill to get up there, just play with a team (or know how to kick people on your team) and you can boost yourself up quite a bit!
I would not say at the BIS level GWFs "perform fine" thats the issue. They currently have a roll in a premade - if thats what you mean by "fine" but so did the perma TR with zero damage. That was MERELY a function of domination NOT the class though.
I asked Iyon the Dark - whom I and I know many regard as one of the best DCs in the game, what should be done about GWFs. He said buff their tankiness and they should be fine. I said, "really? even with their damage where its at?" He said damage is fine because its long CDs and the GWFs who have that damage, play against players who make it VERY hard to actually HIT that damage on them.
While I dont completely agree with him, thats an outsiders perspective on where the class is.
The K/D ratio is just a function of playing NONpremades. GWFs roll in premades is a glass canon node clearer. Well what happens when you take a glass canon node clearer and play a PUG match? Since you go against people half your GS normall youll probably end up with scores like 15-0. When you play a premade, if the GWF is on the winning team they will probably be something like 50-10 or something as well.
ALL of this tells you nothing as to the state of the GWF. It would be akin to the CW class post-tenacity. The class was horrible and couldnt control anything, but had the best burst damage in the game and was still used in premades all the time. If we had a leaderboard back then youd see CWs on the top page as well. Probably with a decent K/D ratio since whenever they pug que, they would go 20-0.
Its the same thing. I think your getting lost in your numbers.
Not a bad idea. These values were taken today, the old values were taken about a week and a half ago. Overall, there are some differences, but GWFs still come out looking not bad -- the main difference is that TRs look better by comparison to everyone else.
I included average rank for the top 15 players by class. TRs dominate that value by far, and SWs get the jumbo placement, with GFs in a somewhat less bad position. GWFs and CWs are very close in terms of average ranking for the top 15 players of that class, a bit behind HRs and DCs.
GWFs still get a solid k/d ratio, now placing third, slightly behind HRs, with TRs being even more dominant, and everyone else behind those three. In terms of average deaths per match, you can roughly produce three groups: TRs in a class of their own, CWs and SWs in a group that dies more frequently, and DC, GF, GWF, and HR in a middle group. Ranking-wise, only TRs and DCs die less than GWFs.
welll this is better but what will the chart not say is that :
CW is often focused when its 3vs3 (DC/ CW / GWF ) on mid and the CW it's focused first and dies more often in a premade so this is a little exception.
the TR dies less because he is playin the nodecapper/nodeholder role so he faces 1vs2 mostly / 1vs3 and probably 1vs1 against another TR, in other matter of words the difference in Deaths than other classes is to huge, even more different than the HR used to have in the past.
so i agree with the statistics even if it isn't 100% accurate, but it also show us the huge gap there is in numbers and not only on the field.
right now the only node holders / cappers are TRs this is why it's hearthbreaking. You might say "yea but the DC is immortal" yes it is by an immortal DC can't kill you.
i think if the surviability of the TR would be low the game will be even more competitive, and the caps will bleed more and a little faster matches, but the decisions that you are takin in the game will decide the match.
i dont want his damage to be nerfed, neither piercing damage, but all the feats should respect the tooltip, and things like dishearting strike + shadow of demise is bull****, but i am willing to accept it, if they will get a huge nerf on stealth/daze/itc/deflect severity. cause if you want to balance the TR right now, either bring the OLD DPS it used to do in mod4 (no PVE player wants that) , either nerf surviability, so i belive surviability of TR should be.
so even if he can one shot me with SE, i want to have the same ability as him, to kill him the same easy way that he does.
- What you call "GWFs currently perform fine at the BiS level" is, from my PoV, "a non so noticeable under performance".
- The GWF-players are forced to go IV Sentinels and get BiS gear (can be either/both AoW and the bis).
- Other classes have the full "bonus" from power while, in GWF-class case, seems more like " Disciple of War is not working at all" and I Stated this more than once: my 3.05k GF deals ALMOST the same amount of damage with AoD than my GWF using IBS with 7k on power... this is just senseless. I could agree about the nerf on our "encounter and at-wills base damage" [not up to 50% in some cases, but 20% or so would be fine], but the nerf on "power" too?
- GWF-Class, right now, have an "almost" viable build: Intimidation one. GWF-class, like other classes, have 2 more trees which, right now, 1 needs a total rework and the other needs a real buff, not just an exchange from 20 stacks to 10 and an aditional +10% on damage thanks to those stacks (i would exchange the way on how some feats works or the powers affected by those feats, but well, that's me)
with Temporary hit points of 26%-48%(13%-24% with HD) while you pop unstopable , with 15% base damage increase and powerfull challenge should grant only threat, will help SM too, and the difference will be in those 2 atwils (weaponmasterstrike and threating rush)
+2 points on STR .
takedown / roar with daze and IBS it's opening the destroyer for PVP.
restoring/FLS or floursih/IBS for instigator + 10% deflect severity and 35-50% DR on unstopable ( probably some other buffs for PVE like not so fast/mightyleap base damage increase and wicked strike a bleed like dihearting strike)
cagi/daring shout / fls and restoring strike for PVE , new CAGI/DARING shout should do moderate burst damage, and bring utility to the team and be tanky enough with the unstopable.
those things i suggested wont make the GWF OP and they wont make them immortals, to me they seem more like small tweaks and will open 3 different ways of playin for PVP.
even thou IV is played more because of the gap closer from threating rush.
but for PVE both paths would be viable.
You have the top 15 players here. If you can, grab the players who are the 25-50th of their class.
The top 25ish of each class can be seen more of the "BIS" players where the 25-50th of each class might show MORE of the "average". These players should all be more of a higher GS but not necessarily BIS.
Reason being you took the top 15 players, for TRs thats basically ALL on page 1/2 for some classes you might be going 6-8 pages deep to get 15 SWs.
You also previously looked at the worst players as well, which gives ur real no bearing. I think its the middle-top tier that you start seeing the imbalance.
So I think 25-50 rank of each class might make more sense.... This shows the not quite BIS players. Also put a cell in there that looks at the PAGES. Because Im guessing the 25th TR is probably page 3 or 4 while the 25th HR might be page 8... Just something worth noting as well.
Also whats really funny about all of this is the top 15 of each class' win percentage. Its pretty clear the ELO system isnt working because if ALL classes have about an 80% win ratio, thats wining 4 of every 5 games. Well why arent the top elo guys ever getting matched against eachother? Because then noone would have an 80% win ratio.
The difference between 7k Power and 3k Power is roughly 20% damage. I'm not sure if that falls under your category of "almost", but it's not that far apart.
Also your forgetting that while this is a 20% base damage boost, its a MASSIVE MASSIVE difference in intimidation.
3k Build wouldnt even be able to play intimidation, neither would 7k its not enough damage for the long CD. You need a MINIMUM of around 8-9k base and with pots itll work.
I showed the difference between an 8k Power GWF and north of 11k power (like 11.8k) was nearly a 70% difference in intimidation damage. For like 3500 Power.
Just as a quick calculation Rogue #25 is on page #3 of the leaderboards.
GWF #25 is on page #12
HR #25 is on page #11
DC #25 is the bottom of page #9
CW #25 is page #8
By Page #20 I was counting ~ only 17 GFs (this is probably a population thing since GFs are no fun)
Too lazy to find 25 SWs - we all know they suck.
So you do start to see the difference there.
Whats funny is I actually think this is CLOSE to the best you can judge the class.
If you stack these up:
1) TR
2) CW
3) DC
4) HR
5) GWF
6) GF
7) SW
The only exception I would say to this is GF is mis-represented due to population levels. Reason for this is GF is just unfun although they are a good class overall ATM.
If I had to rank the classes myself:
1) TR
2) DC ( I think there are less DCs than CWs so that is why the #25 is different)
3) CW/GF
4) HR
5) GWF
6) SW
So clearly the THREE classes that need a revisit:
SW/GF/GWF - as far as a potential "buff"
TR - for a potential "nerf"
I would imagine if you carried these out again, and looked for the #35 or #50 it would tell even more...
Comments
What I commented on is your stupid remark on how power was nerfed for GWF. Power didn't change at all, only base modifiers. That makes your statement that "power was nerfed" a false accusation. And when you put that "power was nerfed for GWF" and "base damage was nerfed" and "that makes it double nerf!" in one line you're just making a fool of yourself.
your 8k hit sounds right, but your 11k hit was buffed. You should have hit for 8200-8300 dmg unbuffed. Even so the dmg difference is pretty big and low gear GWF just doesnt stand a chance, but the power difference is also big...
Just retested, you are correct I forgot about my White Dragon enchant giving me another 800 power.
So that was 8k Power and about 11.8k Power. Good catch!
Still highlights the drastic difference here though and how this class for nearly 99% of the players have little to no chance it PVP. Its only when you are at the BIS level that this niche build stands a fighting chance.
Its nearly the opposite of a TR who performs at ANY level of GS with nearly any level of enchants.
I agree low gs GWF has serious issues performing in PvP, low gs HR/SW are in the same spot, but for GWF the main problem is the deflected stuns (than again vs other low gs toons this might not be such a problem) since a Cagi-FLS(TD)-IBS combo could work very well even at low GS and IBS is not so power dependent... TR is in another league, at 10k can engage/kill 17k GS of any other class without much problems.
For PvE only choice a low GS GWF has is Destroyer, gear comes pretty easy so are rank 7 enchants. I see no problem in the fact that a high GS GWF can play both pve/pvp with the same build, but as a 24k pvp build i am doing just enough dmg in Tiamat to not be carried, between 700k-1.4mil per Head and that without white glyphs(1-2 rounds grps).
This is why the best overall guides are of Laz/Lia, those can be played at any gs.
a CW will hit me with ice knife for 84k crit unmiitigated and i hit around 40-50k crit unmitigated with indomitable stregth, having both the same power of over 9.6k , and i even have
37.5% DB (from destro classfeat) , 50% DB( from destroyer purpose) so the nerf itself it's on the class, because it still has low base damages.
like i said
from scale to 0 - 10.
our at will/base damage it's 0 while our weapon damage it's a 10.
other classes such as CW/TRs/HRs for example their atwill/basedamage it's a 7+ so its the weapon damage 7+ and togheter it's overlappin the max number of 10, meaning it will have a 14 as value. that means either nerf them or buff GWF.
i can already visualize a intimidation build
3500 base damage multiplied with DB+crit sev/CBA etc.
with 11 sec on CAGI and 13 seconds on Daring Shout.
where CAGI gives a buff of 20% flat damage to you and your allies and Daring shout increases the DR tou you and your allies for 5s (both rank 3 ofc)
and unstopable will give you more temporary hitpoints 28%-48% , being affected of healing depression means 14%-24%. the same determination gain.
I don't think so. Theres a lot of GWF out there with a descent gear still kicking HAMSTER of the TR and other class except CW.
worst lie ever.
on epic lol we finished equally with 8milion damage+ , but on Valindra he beat me for 4-5 milion in advance.
reason is that he
1. has assailant + alot of auto proccing resulting him to deal more AOE damage than me, elol has up to 5 mobs that gang togheter so you cannot deal the same amount like you do in other instances.
2. dailies such as opressive force should have a cap number of 5, and the same with other proccing things/dots etc from CW should apply only on max of 5 players.
i think if it happens this the PVE will be kinda balanced, the same thing should be done with SW/HRs/TRs.
cause the same with HR .
Ah, the fabled super GWFs. And yet all we have is a vid of Sobek in module 4 tracking down Nanners after, quote, hundred of hours of training vs the best TRs in game, but getting shot down super-fast the rest of the time with a normal K/D ratio and in middle of the match chart. And he is supposed to be the peak of GWF skills.
Other veterans i watch, from Tyrion to PapaBIGN and so on, face the exact same problems listed above by others.
Also people focuses on intimidation, while each path should at least be viable. Instigator needs rework and buff. And piercing damage should disappear cause the supposed GWF tankyness is nothing against damage that ignores it...
because they are in stealth/itc either daze or they dodge, this 4 mechanics united+ONESHOTTING it's hard to deal 1v1 agaisnt a TR resulting in GWF doesnt have any openings to beat the TR , cause i dont care really about their damage as i care about my damage, so TR needs a nerf on his surviability more than his damage reduction, and yes a GWF will deal alot of damage IF THE TR IS STAYING STILL, no one said that GWF doesnn't deal damage, understand?
in other words, no other class can surivive facing 1vs2 except the TR, this is what it really unbalance the game, cause we dont need any more node holders !!!!!!
macjae another thing you need to do with those statistics, do them again.
and pick first 15 GWF , first 15 TR , first 15 GFs, first 15 CWs , first 15 hr, first 15 DC , first 15 SW . and we talk about k/d when we have the same amount of players, in that chart.
gg saber is #1 gwf according to the board
looking at the W/L ration and the fact that he seems to solo queue, i dont think is the skill that got him there....
then pick those that dont kick
But this is where the disconnect is. Pre-module 4, TRs had zero damage, zero tankiness and ONLY could just dodge around with the perma stealth build. I mean they were worthless EXCEPT for the fact they could contest a node better than any class.
I remember back in mod 3 TRs wouldnt even TRY and fight/deal damage or anything, just continue to run around between CDs and never be killed.
Why do I bring this up? Because on the leaderboards, TRs were still all over the place at the top, they even had excellent K/D ratios too!
But we all can agree they were not "fine" they needed serious rework.
Well that is the status of the GWF class right now. Leaderboard pages dont really tell the whole story because it doesnt measure individual class performance only the classes performance in the TEAM. You dont even need good individual skill to get up there, just play with a team (or know how to kick people on your team) and you can boost yourself up quite a bit!
I would not say at the BIS level GWFs "perform fine" thats the issue. They currently have a roll in a premade - if thats what you mean by "fine" but so did the perma TR with zero damage. That was MERELY a function of domination NOT the class though.
I asked Iyon the Dark - whom I and I know many regard as one of the best DCs in the game, what should be done about GWFs. He said buff their tankiness and they should be fine. I said, "really? even with their damage where its at?" He said damage is fine because its long CDs and the GWFs who have that damage, play against players who make it VERY hard to actually HIT that damage on them.
While I dont completely agree with him, thats an outsiders perspective on where the class is.
The K/D ratio is just a function of playing NONpremades. GWFs roll in premades is a glass canon node clearer. Well what happens when you take a glass canon node clearer and play a PUG match? Since you go against people half your GS normall youll probably end up with scores like 15-0. When you play a premade, if the GWF is on the winning team they will probably be something like 50-10 or something as well.
ALL of this tells you nothing as to the state of the GWF. It would be akin to the CW class post-tenacity. The class was horrible and couldnt control anything, but had the best burst damage in the game and was still used in premades all the time. If we had a leaderboard back then youd see CWs on the top page as well. Probably with a decent K/D ratio since whenever they pug que, they would go 20-0.
Its the same thing. I think your getting lost in your numbers.
welll this is better but what will the chart not say is that :
CW is often focused when its 3vs3 (DC/ CW / GWF ) on mid and the CW it's focused first and dies more often in a premade so this is a little exception.
the TR dies less because he is playin the nodecapper/nodeholder role so he faces 1vs2 mostly / 1vs3 and probably 1vs1 against another TR, in other matter of words the difference in Deaths than other classes is to huge, even more different than the HR used to have in the past.
so i agree with the statistics even if it isn't 100% accurate, but it also show us the huge gap there is in numbers and not only on the field.
right now the only node holders / cappers are TRs this is why it's hearthbreaking. You might say "yea but the DC is immortal" yes it is by an immortal DC can't kill you.
i think if the surviability of the TR would be low the game will be even more competitive, and the caps will bleed more and a little faster matches, but the decisions that you are takin in the game will decide the match.
i dont want his damage to be nerfed, neither piercing damage, but all the feats should respect the tooltip, and things like dishearting strike + shadow of demise is bull****, but i am willing to accept it, if they will get a huge nerf on stealth/daze/itc/deflect severity. cause if you want to balance the TR right now, either bring the OLD DPS it used to do in mod4 (no PVE player wants that) , either nerf surviability, so i belive surviability of TR should be.
so even if he can one shot me with SE, i want to have the same ability as him, to kill him the same easy way that he does.
this changes
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?815651-Gwf-feedback
with Temporary hit points of 26%-48%(13%-24% with HD) while you pop unstopable , with 15% base damage increase and powerfull challenge should grant only threat, will help SM too, and the difference will be in those 2 atwils (weaponmasterstrike and threating rush)
+2 points on STR .
takedown / roar with daze and IBS it's opening the destroyer for PVP.
restoring/FLS or floursih/IBS for instigator + 10% deflect severity and 35-50% DR on unstopable ( probably some other buffs for PVE like not so fast/mightyleap base damage increase and wicked strike a bleed like dihearting strike)
cagi/daring shout / fls and restoring strike for PVE , new CAGI/DARING shout should do moderate burst damage, and bring utility to the team and be tanky enough with the unstopable.
those things i suggested wont make the GWF OP and they wont make them immortals, to me they seem more like small tweaks and will open 3 different ways of playin for PVP.
even thou IV is played more because of the gap closer from threating rush.
but for PVE both paths would be viable.
This is what I would REALLY like to see.
Do something like this, if you have time.
You have the top 15 players here. If you can, grab the players who are the 25-50th of their class.
The top 25ish of each class can be seen more of the "BIS" players where the 25-50th of each class might show MORE of the "average". These players should all be more of a higher GS but not necessarily BIS.
Reason being you took the top 15 players, for TRs thats basically ALL on page 1/2 for some classes you might be going 6-8 pages deep to get 15 SWs.
You also previously looked at the worst players as well, which gives ur real no bearing. I think its the middle-top tier that you start seeing the imbalance.
So I think 25-50 rank of each class might make more sense.... This shows the not quite BIS players. Also put a cell in there that looks at the PAGES. Because Im guessing the 25th TR is probably page 3 or 4 while the 25th HR might be page 8... Just something worth noting as well.
Also whats really funny about all of this is the top 15 of each class' win percentage. Its pretty clear the ELO system isnt working because if ALL classes have about an 80% win ratio, thats wining 4 of every 5 games. Well why arent the top elo guys ever getting matched against eachother? Because then noone would have an 80% win ratio.
Also your forgetting that while this is a 20% base damage boost, its a MASSIVE MASSIVE difference in intimidation.
3k Build wouldnt even be able to play intimidation, neither would 7k its not enough damage for the long CD. You need a MINIMUM of around 8-9k base and with pots itll work.
I showed the difference between an 8k Power GWF and north of 11k power (like 11.8k) was nearly a 70% difference in intimidation damage. For like 3500 Power.
GWF #25 is on page #12
HR #25 is on page #11
DC #25 is the bottom of page #9
CW #25 is page #8
By Page #20 I was counting ~ only 17 GFs (this is probably a population thing since GFs are no fun)
Too lazy to find 25 SWs - we all know they suck.
So you do start to see the difference there.
Whats funny is I actually think this is CLOSE to the best you can judge the class.
If you stack these up:
1) TR
2) CW
3) DC
4) HR
5) GWF
6) GF
7) SW
The only exception I would say to this is GF is mis-represented due to population levels. Reason for this is GF is just unfun although they are a good class overall ATM.
If I had to rank the classes myself:
1) TR
2) DC ( I think there are less DCs than CWs so that is why the #25 is different)
3) CW/GF
4) HR
5) GWF
6) SW
So clearly the THREE classes that need a revisit:
SW/GF/GWF - as far as a potential "buff"
TR - for a potential "nerf"
I would imagine if you carried these out again, and looked for the #35 or #50 it would tell even more...