GWF mark doesn't apply combat advantage. Only GF's Tab mark does.
Ohh it most definitely does, as a matter of fact gwf can put 2 marks on target and both grant extra dmg plus CA, one does the 20% and the other 8%. You can check this by using TR and DS on a dummy and you;ll see your dmg explode.
Ohh it most definitely does, as a matter of fact gwf can put 2 marks on target and both grant extra dmg plus CA, one does the 20% and the other 8%. You can check this by using TR and DS on a dummy and you;ll see your dmg explode.
Mhm... That makes sense now. So with (roughly) double damage from mark and (roughly) double damage from destroyer feats a GWF still does the least damage from all the strikers. That would be funny if it weren't sad.
Mhm... That makes sense now. So with (roughly) double damage from mark and (roughly) double damage from destroyer feats a GWF still does the least damage from all the strikers. That would be funny if it weren't sad.
Well, when you multiply nothing... but high gear GWF do very well still, unfortunately you need a lot of gear to perform and this is not good.
What GWf needs,to my opinion,is hard hitting encounters.I play Gf a GWf stuns me and start pummeling at me with att wills.Pitiful damage.then out of a sudden a 20-30k intimidation.
Your att wills centainly need a damage boost.And you need new hard hitting encounters ,melee ones.I do not like the image of a powerfull armoured warrior doing damage by shoutinga strong voice, as roar and intimidation is.
For destros:
Flourish must benefits from glyphs(curently no-yet none of you reported that.None GWf plays destro in pvp?)
Flourish animation to be increased.And all GWFs powers(as GFs)have to be autolock.ranged ones are autolock why the fighters not?
In general things that will help the GWFs and fighters in general:
Piercing damage has to go from the game.it hurts the most the classes that have natural tendency and feats in defence.GWF and GFs.
DoTs are cheap aswell and have to be a limit in how much times can proc.Again dot able classes use dot encounters with glyphs to neutralize fighter classes.
And deflect has to stop affecting cc.You think it will hurt you,no it will hurt the classes that use them to avoid your cc.You have enough cc-sprint and unstopable-they have not.Trs and Hrs abuse that deflect stat to be almost immune cc.
Dodges must be what ther name says:dodges.Movements that transport you fast to a place.Not damage immune movements.
If dodges return to thoer old mechanism(no damage immune) you ll see that you will have way easier time against Tr/HRs.
If the devs fail to boost GWF stuns directly or indirectly (nerfing deflect) ,GWF.GFs SHOULD LOBBY THEIR STUNS TO TRANSFORMED TO DAZES
1) Yes Intimidation builds can do decent damage but only if you have 10k+ Power. Why does intimidation do so much damage? Its not the feat itself, it actually has to do with Mark.
A few fun facts about intimidation:
- Its not buffed at ALL by armor pen. Meaning the tankier the target, the less damage you can deal. Fortunately for us, Mark ISNT really an "armor pen" its actually a damage buff - whose surprised the DEVs coded that one wrong
- Intimidation actually doesnt hit that hard by itself. I have 10.4k Power unbuffed and hit dummies for around 7-8k. Ill crit for maybe 15k-16k on a dummy. So where does the damage come from then?!
- Most of the GWFs damage come from Mark+Poweful Challenge+ Combat Advantage Damage bonus. ALL I need to do is Threat Rush the dummy, apply mark and gain combat advantage damage bonus and then BAM. I am HITTING for 15-16k and critting for 30k+.
Add in elixers granting more power and crit severity, add in companions which can boost that power another 3k, and youll see crits for 40k+.
Where is the true issue? Its not intimidation, its HOW much damage comes from mark.
SOLUTION:
Remove combat advantage from GWFs mark. remove powerful challenge. THEN add back in 2% damage bonus for each STR point (up from 1%).
Now youll have more steady damage and intimidation will hit less hard. MUCH less hard.
The other thing to remember about this setup as well, is it IS extremely bursty but has LONG CDs. So while that GF posted a SS before, youll see 1 of the intimidation crit and actually hit the target for what? 23k after DR etc. Well thats about the same damage my 10k TR does with a 100% crit chance Lashing blade with NO offensive enchants and NO weapon enchant. Think its still OP?
What about that second hit, well that probably came from Come and Get it - the SECOND encounter you use to proc it. This also crit but only really like for a few thousand.
Now the GWF sits around for 15sec while his encounters are on CD.
Some say, we were given BACK DR with Sprint. So hat about Sprint giving us DR?
The issue with this is Unstoppable DR and intimidation gain worked TOGETHER. Meaning once you gained intimidation you had good DR in unstoppable. The problem with having higher DR outside unstoppable is that it HURTS your determination gain.
The other issue with that is Sprint still only lasts like 5 seconds and has to be used PRIOR to the CC where as unstoppable can be used to break CC.
The OTHER issue is that MOST of the time you dont even GET to use sprint as a defensive tool because you have to use it to REACH your target. So the entire "DR" boost you gain is really just wasted.
Id rather have them remove CC immunity AND DR from Sprint and bring back the old unstoppable.
Sentinel GWFs with BIS gear can do well in PVP. Im not saying they dont. But they HAVE to be BIS gear and HAVE to have a proper team makeup to do well.
I havnt played my TR since PRE-Module 2. He has 1 green "lantern" artifact i got prior to them becoming BOE when they were BOA. He is 10k GS with Ancient daggers and T2 PVP gear with 20k HP.
I did not put ANY enchants in him (including weapon/defensive/even run speed enchants) literally none. I played 1 game and went 12-1 and that 1 death was because I got cocky and caught in a CC chain.
I was running around LB critting people (100% chance in stealth) for 20k (the same amount of damage intimidation deals on a 20k+GS character) Then my Shadow of Demise or w.e its called would hit for another 10k+. Making that LB HARDER than MOST of my 24k GS GWFs intimidations.
Every 30 seconds ish I had a daily and was Shocking Exec players for over 20k un-avoidable damage. I 1 shot two players back to back, one of them soulforged which I spammed COS for about 4k in 3 seconds to finish him for a triple kill.
Why do I say all this? Because that TR with HALF the GS and HALF the HP and HALF the tenacity, could outlive my TANK GWF. Could out damage my GWF.
Now my GWF could 1 shot my TR sure, But that TR could easily 2 shot my GWF as well. If the TR were given the same radiants and perfect vorpal my GWF has - I wouldnt even need artifacts and my GWF wouldnt stand a chance.
TLDR: Yes GWFs need a small damage nerf, but also a damage buff in other areas (like at wills). They need intimidation gain BACK to where it was before. Sprint can be nerfed as it really doesnt help GWFs much at all.
well, intimidation is a entire mistake create by a bad demand after the creation of m4 monsters and the unilateral politics to "separete dps and tank" (that is, no more 2 functions). the lack of burst/radius/fast casting recurses still in the entire class and need be fixed in the base. point. more control, better feets, all that is a demand created by a bad base.
is time to fix all that. 2 modules now discuss a single t3 feet? is insane. is like a judo guy who only training a morote gari. you need distribute your training on other things. for good or bad, that feet can not to be the fundamant of a tree, please, just please.
now lets be clear, the mark change is just a bad way to buff gwf after during the creation of m4 monsters. make mark works like a bad warlok curse. in this i igree in the str change, but is not enough. other powers need to be worked. 2 times more power/str bonus to have encounters burst cap 5 in 2k? no, no, no...
back to old determination? ok, but why not work in a class feature first and see whats happening?
well, intimidation is a entire mistake create by a bad demand after the creation of m4 monsters and the unilateral politics to "separete dps and tank" (that is, no more 2 functions). the lack of burst/radius/fast casting recurses still in the entire class and need be fixed in the base. point. more control, better feets, all that is a demand created by a bad base.
is time to fix all that. 2 modules now discuss a single t3 feet? is insane. is like a judo guy who only training a morote gari. you need distribute your training on other things. for good or bad, that feet can not to be the fundamant of a tree, please, just please.
now lets be clear, the mark change is just a bad way to buff gwf after during the creation of m4 monsters. make mark works like a bad warlok curse. in this i igree in the str change, but is not enough. other powers need to be worked. 2 times more power/str bonus to have encounters burst cap 5 in 2k? no, no, no...
back to old determination? ok, but why not work in a class feature first and see whats happening?
I agree.
What I would like to see happen is something like what TRs have as a feat: Gain determination by expending Stamina.
I like the 350% weapon damage for intimdation. Works pretty well. Reduce the CDs on those two encounters tho.
remove Combat advantage damage AND Powerful Challenge (Maybe the Deter Gain can replace Powerful Challenge) and then put 2% damage on STR.
Remove the at will penalty during Unstoppable
NOW lets see where GWFs end up with these changes.
thats why i said one sided.
destroyer and istigator can use those 2 feats aswell.
intimidation build problem is that it does huge damage that one shots people out.
so to fix it
it should do LESS damage, but more often.
so instead of having a 13 second cagi that deals 30k crit, i rather have a cagi that deals 15k crit with 9-10 sec cooldown.
if it's based on weapon damage it can be decreased if it's to OP. but i doubt that.
so less burst damage more often, than huge burst damage with long CD. i think it will go with the flow.
but daring shout and cagi the buffs you get from them, should be applied to UR allies, cause GWF needs some utility.
like i said if 350% out of weapon damage at BIS is overkilling it can be decreased.
so it's like this.
sentinel it's obliged to play with daring shout/cagi .
destroyer is obliged with takedown, but what i want to see ROAR with a daze, interrupting it's not working, the daze should help the gwf, takin in mind the stuns are affected. so a 2 second daze it's all the buff destroyer needs right now.
so destroyer it's obliged to play with takedown/roar.
the instigator should be a hybrid of this 2 paragons.
it already has the DPS from capstone that is almost the same as the Destroyer Purpose, but it's still lacking.
if you make an instigator for PVP you will only have 3 usefull caps for pvp, the fourth it's lacking so much.
so to buff instigator should have an increasment on unstopable DR
around 35%-50%
nimble runner should give some deflect severity too, fleet flooted should be changed while you control ur target you get 15% stamina back, this feat should have a cooldown, so it wont multi procc.
in matter of determination gain.
yes the Steadfast Determination should get abuff up to 50% determination gain. instead of 20%.
Slam is a good daily to fight a TR for example, but now it doesn't do enough damage, and it's not even worth puttin it. this daily should crit.
and as daring/cagi is for sentinel
and roar/takedown for destroyer
they have class feats too that are meant for the paragon
destroyer for destroyer
weapon master for sentinel
the instigator doesnt have one, so either Bravery/SteadFastDetermination will need a buff for this reason.
so you will have 3 viable builds for PVP with 3 different playstyles.
problem is when you fight another class, cause people are demanding more buffs for GWF right now, when it isn't necesary, small tweaks would do more, than bringin huge rework on the class.
when you are fightin another class for example HR. you cannot demand buffs to beat that class, cause that class has buggy feats that multi procc or doesnt do as the tool tip says. so i think to balance those type of fights is to fix the classes that have problems like that.
problem is when you fight another class, cause people are demanding more buffs for GWF right now, when it isn't necesary, small tweaks would do more, than bringin huge rework on the class.
when you are fightin another class for example HR. you cannot demand buffs to beat that class, cause that class has buggy feats that multi procc or doesnt do as the tool tip says. so i think to balance those type of fights is to fix the classes that have problems like that.
I agree with what your saying. Even if Roar was given a Daze Destroyers are FAR too squishy in PVP to be viable.
Again my testing shows you have to lose about 25% of your HP to pop unstoppable.
For a destroyer this means they have to lose 25% of your HP to have a CHANCE to gain your stacks.
If you remove the burst damage from Sentinel the entire class is a dead class. Right now the ONLY thing propping the class up is its high burst.
So while I am an advocate for making it more realistic damage, Id have to see it accompanied by a big chance to tankiness or determination.
Either less HP lost to gain determination OR stamina usage grants determination.
No offense at any of you Ayroux and Effective, but i think that "MARK" should dissapear from the GWF-class as it is right now. I mean, the mark should be just to AGGRO mobs, not to deal more damage unless the player picked "Powerfull Challenge" Sentinel feat (which should be moved into a T3 and rise its damage to 25%). Otherwise, the GWF should deal "plain" damage and just count on its own buffs/debuffs (when soloing, ofc), not on a mechanic used by the GF class (but well, again, is well known all over the forum that i am against the I.V. path on GWF-class).
Why would I take offense to this? I agree for the most part. The issue with removing mark from the GWF is that it would break the class.
I also dislike powerful challenge altogether. Why? Because it is actually very annoying and difficult to mark targets in PVP. We get 3 threatening Rush stacks that half the time, when used, dont even mark the target and beause of the animation delay before you can attack, you end up just as far away from the target as when you began the rush. There are countless times I use TR to get to a target and to mark them, they move out of the way and dont get marked.
There are also countless other times that I just rubberband back in place over and over because TR works on server side. So its starts the animation client side, checks with the server if its connects or not, says NOPE! Sorry! returns you back to your initial spot.
TLDR: its super un-reliable
I dont mind mark in a minimal form. I think mark lasting 20 seconds is stupid. I think TR having 3 charges is even more stupid. I LOATH the fact that MOST of the GWFS damage comes from Mark+combat advantage + powerful challenge and without those you deal no damage.
Since the game is what it is, I wont tell you my "ideal" but just state again what I would change now that we are "here" and the changes would be minimal.
1) Strength changed to 2% dmg boost (up from 1%)
2) Either - reduce the HP % needed for unstoppable or give determination gain while using sprint
3) Remove Powerful Challenge (possible replace with the determination gained from sprint feat - since its T2 anyone can get it)
4) Remove combat advantage from Mark and reduce mark back to 8% damage boost (down from 20%).
5) Take the "formula" for Crushing Surge (the GF at will) and PASTE that onto Sure Strike. My GF with minimal Power HITS for 1700+. With more weapon damage and damage bonuses on my GWF I should be hitting sure strike for 2500.
6) REMOVE the damage penalty on at wills during unstoppable.
7) Roar given a 1 second "daze".
8) Frontline/Takedown given prone back - although it CAN be a shorter duration than previously. (Nobody wants to see module 3 repeated)
9) Flourish - Id like to see this deal more damage than IBS.
I think that would do it. GWFs would hit much harder with at wills and ALOT more damage would come from them with consistant DPS rather than amazing burst, have much less damage that is reliant on mark. Mark for IV would still be a nice boost, but not as influential. You might actually see Destroyers and Instigators in pvp again.
What I would like to see happen is something like what TRs have as a feat: Gain determination by expending Stamina.
this is precisely what can be worked with steadfast determination, after a "preventive adjustment for battle fury."
an interesting feet of the instigator could work like that boon of Icewind granting power for stamina. in the case of instigator, stamina regen.
*****
About mark, even though accessible to the instigator / destroyer, the concept is wrong and dont benefit at all pve-sm. there is not a good reason to not increase the base by 35% and work exclusively the old mark/feet in threat + combat advantage. for a destroyer, will remain two internal extra feets or maybe work in instigator for an extra bonus of 10% + 5% critical. is a BIG boost... for pve.
unstoppable+atwill changes only will create a demand for the single target of rogues. I prefer increasing radius / exclude penalty for aoe atwills / encounters of the class. my point is increase the damage of class with the minimum weight possible for pvp / iv, because the demand in this area are others.
about that:
destroyer + daze is a bad idea in my opinion (daze seens only work if you have a close gap, in this case, tr/fs). other options should be studied first. solve a problem, is not my problem, but seens wrong to me. slow seens more democratic and improve the chance to hit slow animations powers (i see a lot of people complaining about that. ).
a small bonus to be increase a long the tree, but still acessible to other trees. my idea, before to balance the class for other classes is balance for yourself.
this is precisely what can be worked with steadfast determination, after a "preventive adjustment for battle fury."
an interesting feet of the instigator could work like that boon of Icewind granting power for stamina. in the case of instigator, stamina regen.
*****
About mark, even though accessible to the instigator / destroyer, the concept is wrong and dont benefit at all pve-sm. there is not a good reason to not increase the base by 35% and work exclusively the old mark/feet in threat + combat advantage. for a destroyer, will remain two internal extra feets or maybe work in instigator for an extra bonus of 10% + 5% critical. is a BIG boost... for pve.
unstoppable+atwill changes only will create a demand for the single target of rogues. I prefer increasing radius / exclude penalty for aoe atwills / encounters of the class. my point is increase the damage of class with the minimum weight possible for pvp / iv, because the demand in this area are others.
about that:
destroyer + daze is a bad idea in my opinion (daze seens only work if you have a close gap, in this case, tr/fs). other options should be studied first. solve a problem, is not my problem, but seens wrong to me. slow seens more democratic and improve the chance to hit slow animations powers (i see a lot of people complaining about that. ).
a small bonus to be increase a long the tree, but still acessible to other trees. my idea, before to balance the class for other classes is balance for yourself.
I dont know if it would be best to match this with steadfast determination or not. If you do that, then we lose out on Bravery which gives much needed run speed (deflect is nice too) but run speed is VERY crucial in today's pvp when most classes have 4+ Dodges which can completely "out run" our sprint. Steadfast determination COULD work IF you increased base stamina regen for GWFs - which would give them a better way to "close the gaps".
Most often GWFs have to use Sprint to get to their target initially, which leaves them defense-less once they get there. This is where the stamina/determination gain comes is because now WHEN they use sprint to get TO their target, they lost their defensive "sprint" tool, but have gained say 25% of their determination bar.
Now when the target dodges away from the GWF then attacks them, the GWF NOW only has to lose about 15% of his HP to pop unstoppable. By this time some sprint has come back as well, which would enable the GWF to run towards the target, who would still kite them, once unstoppable ends the GWF can NOW sprint again (probably not a full meter) and now would earn back maybe 15% of determination bar.
So you see this big impact this has. It still enables classes to kite+damage GWFs but gives GWFs SOMETHING to counter the dodge mechanics.
Id also agree that the AoE at wills need to not only be beefed up damage wise, but also have their AoE penalty removed.
I still think daze would be good to add to Roar. Destroyers are SO squishy in PVP they NEED a range "daze" to catch a target and help them not get 1 shot.
You have to remember that now determination gain has been nerfed as well as base Unstoppable for Destroyers, they are WORSE than glass canons. They have to pop unstoppable to gain damage boost which means they really have to lose alot of HP to gain a chance at damage boost).
the issue with module 3 was determination gain was MUCH faster, Roar went THROUGH control immunity and Unstoppable was MUCH tankier. Ontop of that, there was no real piercing damage.
Now with all those changes, I see nothing wrong with bringing back a SMALL daze to Roar.
Yes, but remember, I suggested a change in the instigator t1, that is, if you spend a single point in sos (changed for slow effect) +Fleet Footed
and you have a 15% extra sprint without bravery after hitting a critic. if the bonus is not working as I think it works, can be adjusted (we are talking about hypotheses here).
in this case, thinking here, alone with an effect of "5 sec" of slow + extra 3 secs after controlling expires. to better accommodate the pvp, the runspeed of bonus can be increased to 5 secs, guaranteeing at least 6 seconds of free speed after a simple critical.
remembering that the powerfull challange come to the base damage in the "zacazu world". all trees received a free extra damage feet of 15%.
this is not the final and definitive solution. is a change that would lead to those other . in a bad scenerio , even if you dont exchange bravery by steadfast, could accumulate the two bonus and have up to 30% more run speed. or that+ new steadfast determination if is your style. i think it would be a good close gap and still have a good value for sm and pve.
I'm MOVING the damage of mark + powerfull challenge for the base. powerfull challenge and mark will be a threat tool+combat advantage. which implies that you can spend points and use any other feet and still have these extra 15% (35%) of m4 guaranteed IN YOUR BASE.
why this would be useless? are 5 points for you to spend as you wish or an additional 15% damage if you previously have ignored this feet.
in the case of change of 5% debuff of sos for slow (in my opinion, 3 stacks of 5%), you will "cheat" Fleet Footed using one point in sos, and got a better close gape and still have your 15% of a of the extinct powerfull change. what is the point? at least if have some big diference between this damage buff and a simple debuff for pvp. but that dont considers the sm problems, the original gwf, so i dont care.
free buff in damage democratic to sm/non sentinel+close gap using a previous useless t1 of instigator and a change to steadfast to use unstoppable after a sprint. is a perfect synergy (i guess) AND is not limited to a single feet like got damage of a tank tree. are 2 feets for an indirect buff for a secondary aspect of the class (sprint) AFTER fix a historical problem of the base damage.
note:The Instigator combines cunning and strength to harnesses the ferocity of battle into precision attacks and tatical maneuvers.
now your critical damage (ferocity) will improbe your tatical maneuvers (sprint). the diference is, that is not will only a a remote combo using t3/t4 feets like nsf and slow after spinning strike. but work since in t1 to a small progression. and if you are a destroyer and chose this feets, so you have a little of " use ferocit for tatical maneuvers" because that is the discription of the tree and a existent combo to be improved.
well i cannot agree with what you said.
cause for example my opinion/feedback that i said in "my world" will give utility/different roles for GWF in a pvp match.
and if i agree with every good change that will make the gwf to perform better i will add that to my "wishing list" so adding what you guys sayin over what i want will make the gwf overkill. so i think the best solution should be chosen, but the truth is that something should be done.
the Instigator it's like 30% of what he can do in PVP so he really needs a buff.
and same with destroyer it's pumped up, but he still mising someth and that daze would be his final key.
and with intimidation sentinels, this build should do less burst more often and bring utility for the team to those 2 encounters.
and in matter of classfeats this is how it should be
destroyer paragon = destroyer class feat + bravery
sentinels = Weapon master + bravery/trample the fallen.
instigators = bravery + trample the fallen / and a buffed Steadfastdetermination.
sentinels will perform on node 2.
destroyer on home node
and instigators on enemy node.
thats how i see it and should be.
well i cannot agree with what you said.
cause for example my opinion/feedback that i said in "my world" will give utility/different roles for GWF in a pvp match.
and if i agree with every good change that will make the gwf to perform better i will add that to my "wishing list" so adding what you guys sayin over what i want will make the gwf overkill. so i think the best solution should be chosen, but the truth is that something should be done.
the Instigator it's like 30% of what he can do in PVP so he really needs a buff.
and same with destroyer it's pumped up, but he still mising someth and that daze would be his final key.
and with intimidation sentinels, this build should do less burst more often and bring utility for the team to those 2 encounters.
and in matter of classfeats this is how it should be
destroyer paragon = destroyer class feat + bravery
sentinels = Weapon master + bravery/trample the fallen.
instigators = bravery + trample the fallen / and a buffed Steadfastdetermination.
sentinels will perform on node 2.
destroyer on home node
and instigators on enemy node.
thats how i see it and should be.
Yeah I think I agree with what your saying the most.
I think my proposals accomplish that pretty well.
1) Strength changed to 2% dmg boost (up from 1%)
2) Either - reduce the HP % needed for unstoppable or give determination gain while using sprint
3) Remove Powerful Challenge (possible replace with the determination gained from sprint feat - since its T2 anyone can get it)
4) Remove combat advantage from Mark and reduce mark back to 8% damage boost (down from 20%).
5) Take the "formula" for Crushing Surge (the GF at will) and PASTE that onto Sure Strike. My GF with minimal Power HITS for 1700+. With more weapon damage and damage bonuses on my GWF I should be hitting sure strike for 2500.
6) REMOVE the damage penalty on at wills during unstoppable.
7) Roar given a 1 second "daze".
8) Frontline/Takedown given prone back - although it CAN be a shorter duration than previously. (Nobody wants to see module 3 repeated)
9) Flourish - Id like to see this deal more damage than IBS.
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pandapaulMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 424Bounty Hunter
Why would I take offense to this? I agree for the most part. The issue with removing mark from the GWF is that it would break the class.
I also dislike powerful challenge altogether. Why? Because it is actually very annoying and difficult to mark targets in PVP. We get 3 threatening Rush stacks that half the time, when used, dont even mark the target and beause of the animation delay before you can attack, you end up just as far away from the target as when you began the rush. There are countless times I use TR to get to a target and to mark them, they move out of the way and dont get marked.
There are also countless other times that I just rubberband back in place over and over because TR works on server side. So its starts the animation client side, checks with the server if its connects or not, says NOPE! Sorry! returns you back to your initial spot.
TLDR: its super un-reliable
I dont mind mark in a minimal form. I think mark lasting 20 seconds is stupid. I think TR having 3 charges is even more stupid. I LOATH the fact that MOST of the GWFS damage comes from Mark+combat advantage + powerful challenge and without those you deal no damage.
Since the game is what it is, I wont tell you my "ideal" but just state again what I would change now that we are "here" and the changes would be minimal.
1) Strength changed to 2% dmg boost (up from 1%)
2) Either - reduce the HP % needed for unstoppable or give determination gain while using sprint
3) Remove Powerful Challenge (possible replace with the determination gained from sprint feat - since its T2 anyone can get it)
4) Remove combat advantage from Mark and reduce mark back to 8% damage boost (down from 20%).
5) Take the "formula" for Crushing Surge (the GF at will) and PASTE that onto Sure Strike. My GF with minimal Power HITS for 1700+. With more weapon damage and damage bonuses on my GWF I should be hitting sure strike for 2500.
6) REMOVE the damage penalty on at wills during unstoppable.
7) Roar given a 1 second "daze".
8) Frontline/Takedown given prone back - although it CAN be a shorter duration than previously. (Nobody wants to see module 3 repeated)
9) Flourish - Id like to see this deal more damage than IBS.
I think that would do it. GWFs would hit much harder with at wills and ALOT more damage would come from them with consistant DPS rather than amazing burst, have much less damage that is reliant on mark. Mark for IV would still be a nice boost, but not as influential. You might actually see Destroyers and Instigators in pvp again.
see while I understand these changes might improve the class for pvp.. it would absolutely ruin it in pve.. by removing mark/powerful challenge and combat advantage you would find pve GWFs would probably lose 40-50% of their pve dps.. The class would need massive buffs across the board to compensate
The adjustments have to consider both pve and pvp and some of these change would leave the class with more issues than it has now
see while I understand these changes might improve the class for pvp.. it would absolutely ruin it in pve.. by removing mark/powerful challenge and combat advantage you would find pve GWFs would probably lose 40-50% of their pve dps.. The class would need massive buffs across the board to compensate
The adjustments have to consider both pve and pvp and some of these change would leave the class with more issues than it has now
that is my point... for this i want to pass to the base because so much damage come to a mechanical of gf/ + t2 of sentinel is wrong. but that damage is necessary for the entire class, so... in the base by definition.
about the other things, i believe in my ideas and believe the antagonism of ideas. if the devs take my ideas, good, if take a practical arrangement between ideas, fine. but that is just for fun.
see while I understand these changes might improve the class for pvp.. it would absolutely ruin it in pve.. by removing mark/powerful challenge and combat advantage you would find pve GWFs would probably lose 40-50% of their pve dps.. The class would need massive buffs across the board to compensate
The adjustments have to consider both pve and pvp and some of these change would leave the class with more issues than it has now
Im not sure about that. Yes you would have less damage, but most likely would still be running with a GF correct? That gives back CA damage.
STR going to 2% from 1% gives about another 15% dmg boost (if at 25 STR)
I think your overlooking at will damage.
If they take the coding of Crushing Surge and apply that damage to Sure Strike youll be seeing 3k+ HITS with sure strike. Then if you remove the damage penalty during unstoppable as well, now your huge attack speed boost is gonna beef up your damage alot as well.
If you provide determination gain from sprint OR less HP lost to pop unstoppable this means more destroyer stacks faster, more faster at wills in unstoppable.
Overall you might see a DPS loss because SO much of our damage comes from Mark+CA+Feat. The feat is negated by the STR boost.
So really mark = 20% damage boost and CA = about another 8%
If mark bumped back to 8% overall this would only be a 20% damage loss.
Now if your at wills hit 2x as hard, and you didnt lose damage during unstoppable on at wills, how much would that boost your damage? Maybe more than 20%.
I dont think it would be a loss to DPS, ontop of that with determination changes youd be more tanky and rely LESS on Unstoppable AND! Have more feat points freed up to use in the Instagator Tree - which when you look at THOSE damage buffs - would DEFINITELY MORE than break even on damage.
So overall I disagree, I think youd end up with at the LEAST the same damage, possibly more.
Just to give an example. On my GWF when you take off your weapon, Sure Strike shows: 86-86 damage.
On my GF when I do the same with Crushing Surge I show: 194-194
So its DOUBLE our damage.
THEN you factor in that our weapon damage is ALOT higher, I take back the "double at wills" It would be more like triple at will damage.
So youd would TRIPLE your at will damage with sure strike and THEN NOT lose damage per hit while unstoppable meaning THAT becomes a massive DPS boost as well.
So id be willing to wager it would be a nice DPS increase.
Yeah I think I agree with what your saying the most.
I think my proposals accomplish that pretty well.
1) Strength changed to 2% dmg boost (up from 1%)
2) Either - reduce the HP % needed for unstoppable or give determination gain while using sprint
3) Remove Powerful Challenge (possible replace with the determination gained from sprint feat - since its T2 anyone can get it)
4) Remove combat advantage from Mark and reduce mark back to 8% damage boost (down from 20%).
5) Take the "formula" for Crushing Surge (the GF at will) and PASTE that onto Sure Strike. My GF with minimal Power HITS for 1700+. With more weapon damage and damage bonuses on my GWF I should be hitting sure strike for 2500.
6) REMOVE the damage penalty on at wills during unstoppable.
7) Roar given a 1 second "daze".
8) Frontline/Takedown given prone back - although it CAN be a shorter duration than previously. (Nobody wants to see module 3 repeated)
9) Flourish - Id like to see this deal more damage than IBS.
No. NO. NO!
Now let's see what you propose 2% for every str, fine... But losing powerful challenge 15%, CA 15%+ and mark getting reduced to 8%... You can't be serious. Those bonuses are multiplicative, so you're suggesting to lose 58.7% damage and get 8% + bonus from str instead? With my str that would be +8%. What an improvement! Are you high, man??? GWF damage is already abysmal and what you suggest would kill the class completely.
On a side note, Flourish should not deal higher dmg than IBS. Why the **** should it? It's a lvl 30 power and it stuns. Speeding up animation is all it needs.
Seriously, do you even think what you're suggesting or just spill what's on the top of your tongue?
Comments
Ohh it most definitely does, as a matter of fact gwf can put 2 marks on target and both grant extra dmg plus CA, one does the 20% and the other 8%. You can check this by using TR and DS on a dummy and you;ll see your dmg explode.
Mhm... That makes sense now. So with (roughly) double damage from mark and (roughly) double damage from destroyer feats a GWF still does the least damage from all the strikers. That would be funny if it weren't sad.
Well, when you multiply nothing... but high gear GWF do very well still, unfortunately you need a lot of gear to perform and this is not good.
Your att wills centainly need a damage boost.And you need new hard hitting encounters ,melee ones.I do not like the image of a powerfull armoured warrior doing damage by shoutinga strong voice, as roar and intimidation is.
For destros:
Flourish must benefits from glyphs(curently no-yet none of you reported that.None GWf plays destro in pvp?)
Flourish animation to be increased.And all GWFs powers(as GFs)have to be autolock.ranged ones are autolock why the fighters not?
In general things that will help the GWFs and fighters in general:
Piercing damage has to go from the game.it hurts the most the classes that have natural tendency and feats in defence.GWF and GFs.
DoTs are cheap aswell and have to be a limit in how much times can proc.Again dot able classes use dot encounters with glyphs to neutralize fighter classes.
And deflect has to stop affecting cc.You think it will hurt you,no it will hurt the classes that use them to avoid your cc.You have enough cc-sprint and unstopable-they have not.Trs and Hrs abuse that deflect stat to be almost immune cc.
Dodges must be what ther name says:dodges.Movements that transport you fast to a place.Not damage immune movements.
If dodges return to thoer old mechanism(no damage immune) you ll see that you will have way easier time against Tr/HRs.
If the devs fail to boost GWF stuns directly or indirectly (nerfing deflect) ,GWF.GFs SHOULD LOBBY THEIR STUNS TO TRANSFORMED TO DAZES
1) Yes Intimidation builds can do decent damage but only if you have 10k+ Power. Why does intimidation do so much damage? Its not the feat itself, it actually has to do with Mark.
A few fun facts about intimidation:
- Its not buffed at ALL by armor pen. Meaning the tankier the target, the less damage you can deal. Fortunately for us, Mark ISNT really an "armor pen" its actually a damage buff - whose surprised the DEVs coded that one wrong
- Intimidation actually doesnt hit that hard by itself. I have 10.4k Power unbuffed and hit dummies for around 7-8k. Ill crit for maybe 15k-16k on a dummy. So where does the damage come from then?!
- Most of the GWFs damage come from Mark+Poweful Challenge+ Combat Advantage Damage bonus. ALL I need to do is Threat Rush the dummy, apply mark and gain combat advantage damage bonus and then BAM. I am HITTING for 15-16k and critting for 30k+.
Add in elixers granting more power and crit severity, add in companions which can boost that power another 3k, and youll see crits for 40k+.
Where is the true issue? Its not intimidation, its HOW much damage comes from mark.
SOLUTION:
Remove combat advantage from GWFs mark. remove powerful challenge. THEN add back in 2% damage bonus for each STR point (up from 1%).
Now youll have more steady damage and intimidation will hit less hard. MUCH less hard.
The other thing to remember about this setup as well, is it IS extremely bursty but has LONG CDs. So while that GF posted a SS before, youll see 1 of the intimidation crit and actually hit the target for what? 23k after DR etc. Well thats about the same damage my 10k TR does with a 100% crit chance Lashing blade with NO offensive enchants and NO weapon enchant. Think its still OP?
What about that second hit, well that probably came from Come and Get it - the SECOND encounter you use to proc it. This also crit but only really like for a few thousand.
Now the GWF sits around for 15sec while his encounters are on CD.
Some say, we were given BACK DR with Sprint. So hat about Sprint giving us DR?
The issue with this is Unstoppable DR and intimidation gain worked TOGETHER. Meaning once you gained intimidation you had good DR in unstoppable. The problem with having higher DR outside unstoppable is that it HURTS your determination gain.
The other issue with that is Sprint still only lasts like 5 seconds and has to be used PRIOR to the CC where as unstoppable can be used to break CC.
The OTHER issue is that MOST of the time you dont even GET to use sprint as a defensive tool because you have to use it to REACH your target. So the entire "DR" boost you gain is really just wasted.
Id rather have them remove CC immunity AND DR from Sprint and bring back the old unstoppable.
Sentinel GWFs with BIS gear can do well in PVP. Im not saying they dont. But they HAVE to be BIS gear and HAVE to have a proper team makeup to do well.
I havnt played my TR since PRE-Module 2. He has 1 green "lantern" artifact i got prior to them becoming BOE when they were BOA. He is 10k GS with Ancient daggers and T2 PVP gear with 20k HP.
I did not put ANY enchants in him (including weapon/defensive/even run speed enchants) literally none. I played 1 game and went 12-1 and that 1 death was because I got cocky and caught in a CC chain.
I was running around LB critting people (100% chance in stealth) for 20k (the same amount of damage intimidation deals on a 20k+GS character) Then my Shadow of Demise or w.e its called would hit for another 10k+. Making that LB HARDER than MOST of my 24k GS GWFs intimidations.
Every 30 seconds ish I had a daily and was Shocking Exec players for over 20k un-avoidable damage. I 1 shot two players back to back, one of them soulforged which I spammed COS for about 4k in 3 seconds to finish him for a triple kill.
Why do I say all this? Because that TR with HALF the GS and HALF the HP and HALF the tenacity, could outlive my TANK GWF. Could out damage my GWF.
Now my GWF could 1 shot my TR sure, But that TR could easily 2 shot my GWF as well. If the TR were given the same radiants and perfect vorpal my GWF has - I wouldnt even need artifacts and my GWF wouldnt stand a chance.
TLDR: Yes GWFs need a small damage nerf, but also a damage buff in other areas (like at wills). They need intimidation gain BACK to where it was before. Sprint can be nerfed as it really doesnt help GWFs much at all.
Not saying it has to be a ton. But if you gained like 1/4th your determination meter for using your entire sprint meter NOW it could be more balanced.
You could even put that into a feat (kinda like TRs get stealth when they roll) GWFs gain determination when they sprint.
THAT Would make this entire thing work.
Then again id still propose removing some damage from Mark and adding damage to STR.
i already posted here how intimidation should work.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?815651-Gwf-feedback
and zveris done the math on how it will work.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?815651-Gwf-feedback/page3
so i dont see why people go crazy and stuff, cuz fixing the gwf is only about small tweaks.
is time to fix all that. 2 modules now discuss a single t3 feet? is insane. is like a judo guy who only training a morote gari. you need distribute your training on other things. for good or bad, that feet can not to be the fundamant of a tree, please, just please.
now lets be clear, the mark change is just a bad way to buff gwf after during the creation of m4 monsters. make mark works like a bad warlok curse. in this i igree in the str change, but is not enough. other powers need to be worked. 2 times more power/str bonus to have encounters burst cap 5 in 2k? no, no, no...
back to old determination? ok, but why not work in a class feature first and see whats happening?
This isnt a bad idea, although might be too strong. 350% of 1051 weapon dmg is 3,500. Using 35% of Power 3,678/.35 = 10,508 power Equiv.
If you keep combat advantage and mark and all those other things, your gonna still see the exact same issue we do today.
11k Power is really around the best you can get realistically un-potted. Its only when you add pets/pots will you see people over 12 or 13k Power.
I like your idea alot actually, however I still think Powerful Challenge AND Combat Advantage from Mark need addressing.
I agree.
What I would like to see happen is something like what TRs have as a feat: Gain determination by expending Stamina.
I like the 350% weapon damage for intimdation. Works pretty well. Reduce the CDs on those two encounters tho.
remove Combat advantage damage AND Powerful Challenge (Maybe the Deter Gain can replace Powerful Challenge) and then put 2% damage on STR.
Remove the at will penalty during Unstoppable
NOW lets see where GWFs end up with these changes.
destroyer and istigator can use those 2 feats aswell.
intimidation build problem is that it does huge damage that one shots people out.
so to fix it
it should do LESS damage, but more often.
so instead of having a 13 second cagi that deals 30k crit, i rather have a cagi that deals 15k crit with 9-10 sec cooldown.
if it's based on weapon damage it can be decreased if it's to OP. but i doubt that.
so less burst damage more often, than huge burst damage with long CD. i think it will go with the flow.
but daring shout and cagi the buffs you get from them, should be applied to UR allies, cause GWF needs some utility.
like i said if 350% out of weapon damage at BIS is overkilling it can be decreased.
so it's like this.
sentinel it's obliged to play with daring shout/cagi .
destroyer is obliged with takedown, but what i want to see ROAR with a daze, interrupting it's not working, the daze should help the gwf, takin in mind the stuns are affected. so a 2 second daze it's all the buff destroyer needs right now.
so destroyer it's obliged to play with takedown/roar.
the instigator should be a hybrid of this 2 paragons.
it already has the DPS from capstone that is almost the same as the Destroyer Purpose, but it's still lacking.
if you make an instigator for PVP you will only have 3 usefull caps for pvp, the fourth it's lacking so much.
so to buff instigator should have an increasment on unstopable DR
around 35%-50%
nimble runner should give some deflect severity too, fleet flooted should be changed while you control ur target you get 15% stamina back, this feat should have a cooldown, so it wont multi procc.
in matter of determination gain.
yes the Steadfast Determination should get abuff up to 50% determination gain. instead of 20%.
Slam is a good daily to fight a TR for example, but now it doesn't do enough damage, and it's not even worth puttin it. this daily should crit.
and as daring/cagi is for sentinel
and roar/takedown for destroyer
they have class feats too that are meant for the paragon
destroyer for destroyer
weapon master for sentinel
the instigator doesnt have one, so either Bravery/SteadFastDetermination will need a buff for this reason.
so you will have 3 viable builds for PVP with 3 different playstyles.
problem is when you fight another class, cause people are demanding more buffs for GWF right now, when it isn't necesary, small tweaks would do more, than bringin huge rework on the class.
when you are fightin another class for example HR. you cannot demand buffs to beat that class, cause that class has buggy feats that multi procc or doesnt do as the tool tip says. so i think to balance those type of fights is to fix the classes that have problems like that.
I agree with what your saying. Even if Roar was given a Daze Destroyers are FAR too squishy in PVP to be viable.
Again my testing shows you have to lose about 25% of your HP to pop unstoppable.
For a destroyer this means they have to lose 25% of your HP to have a CHANCE to gain your stacks.
If you remove the burst damage from Sentinel the entire class is a dead class. Right now the ONLY thing propping the class up is its high burst.
So while I am an advocate for making it more realistic damage, Id have to see it accompanied by a big chance to tankiness or determination.
Either less HP lost to gain determination OR stamina usage grants determination.
Thats the only way I see it possible.
The inferiority of the SwordMaster paragon path which is the ORIGINAL paragon.
One of the many Control Wizards that misses Shard Of The Endless Avalanche. RIP Shard (Beta-Mod3)
Why would I take offense to this? I agree for the most part. The issue with removing mark from the GWF is that it would break the class.
I also dislike powerful challenge altogether. Why? Because it is actually very annoying and difficult to mark targets in PVP. We get 3 threatening Rush stacks that half the time, when used, dont even mark the target and beause of the animation delay before you can attack, you end up just as far away from the target as when you began the rush. There are countless times I use TR to get to a target and to mark them, they move out of the way and dont get marked.
There are also countless other times that I just rubberband back in place over and over because TR works on server side. So its starts the animation client side, checks with the server if its connects or not, says NOPE! Sorry! returns you back to your initial spot.
TLDR: its super un-reliable
I dont mind mark in a minimal form. I think mark lasting 20 seconds is stupid. I think TR having 3 charges is even more stupid. I LOATH the fact that MOST of the GWFS damage comes from Mark+combat advantage + powerful challenge and without those you deal no damage.
Since the game is what it is, I wont tell you my "ideal" but just state again what I would change now that we are "here" and the changes would be minimal.
1) Strength changed to 2% dmg boost (up from 1%)
2) Either - reduce the HP % needed for unstoppable or give determination gain while using sprint
3) Remove Powerful Challenge (possible replace with the determination gained from sprint feat - since its T2 anyone can get it)
4) Remove combat advantage from Mark and reduce mark back to 8% damage boost (down from 20%).
5) Take the "formula" for Crushing Surge (the GF at will) and PASTE that onto Sure Strike. My GF with minimal Power HITS for 1700+. With more weapon damage and damage bonuses on my GWF I should be hitting sure strike for 2500.
6) REMOVE the damage penalty on at wills during unstoppable.
7) Roar given a 1 second "daze".
8) Frontline/Takedown given prone back - although it CAN be a shorter duration than previously. (Nobody wants to see module 3 repeated)
9) Flourish - Id like to see this deal more damage than IBS.
I think that would do it. GWFs would hit much harder with at wills and ALOT more damage would come from them with consistant DPS rather than amazing burst, have much less damage that is reliant on mark. Mark for IV would still be a nice boost, but not as influential. You might actually see Destroyers and Instigators in pvp again.
this is precisely what can be worked with steadfast determination, after a "preventive adjustment for battle fury."
an interesting feet of the instigator could work like that boon of Icewind granting power for stamina. in the case of instigator, stamina regen.
*****
About mark, even though accessible to the instigator / destroyer, the concept is wrong and dont benefit at all pve-sm. there is not a good reason to not increase the base by 35% and work exclusively the old mark/feet in threat + combat advantage. for a destroyer, will remain two internal extra feets or maybe work in instigator for an extra bonus of 10% + 5% critical. is a BIG boost... for pve.
unstoppable+atwill changes only will create a demand for the single target of rogues. I prefer increasing radius / exclude penalty for aoe atwills / encounters of the class. my point is increase the damage of class with the minimum weight possible for pvp / iv, because the demand in this area are others.
about that:
destroyer + daze is a bad idea in my opinion (daze seens only work if you have a close gap, in this case, tr/fs). other options should be studied first. solve a problem, is not my problem, but seens wrong to me. slow seens more democratic and improve the chance to hit slow animations powers (i see a lot of people complaining about that. ).
iam not say to give slow for roar, but for sos. http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?820861-Some-changes-that-should-make-Neverwinter-better-and-more-balanced/page3
a small bonus to be increase a long the tree, but still acessible to other trees. my idea, before to balance the class for other classes is balance for yourself.
I dont know if it would be best to match this with steadfast determination or not. If you do that, then we lose out on Bravery which gives much needed run speed (deflect is nice too) but run speed is VERY crucial in today's pvp when most classes have 4+ Dodges which can completely "out run" our sprint. Steadfast determination COULD work IF you increased base stamina regen for GWFs - which would give them a better way to "close the gaps".
Most often GWFs have to use Sprint to get to their target initially, which leaves them defense-less once they get there. This is where the stamina/determination gain comes is because now WHEN they use sprint to get TO their target, they lost their defensive "sprint" tool, but have gained say 25% of their determination bar.
Now when the target dodges away from the GWF then attacks them, the GWF NOW only has to lose about 15% of his HP to pop unstoppable. By this time some sprint has come back as well, which would enable the GWF to run towards the target, who would still kite them, once unstoppable ends the GWF can NOW sprint again (probably not a full meter) and now would earn back maybe 15% of determination bar.
So you see this big impact this has. It still enables classes to kite+damage GWFs but gives GWFs SOMETHING to counter the dodge mechanics.
Id also agree that the AoE at wills need to not only be beefed up damage wise, but also have their AoE penalty removed.
I still think daze would be good to add to Roar. Destroyers are SO squishy in PVP they NEED a range "daze" to catch a target and help them not get 1 shot.
You have to remember that now determination gain has been nerfed as well as base Unstoppable for Destroyers, they are WORSE than glass canons. They have to pop unstoppable to gain damage boost which means they really have to lose alot of HP to gain a chance at damage boost).
the issue with module 3 was determination gain was MUCH faster, Roar went THROUGH control immunity and Unstoppable was MUCH tankier. Ontop of that, there was no real piercing damage.
Now with all those changes, I see nothing wrong with bringing back a SMALL daze to Roar.
and you have a 15% extra sprint without bravery after hitting a critic. if the bonus is not working as I think it works, can be adjusted (we are talking about hypotheses here).
in this case, thinking here, alone with an effect of "5 sec" of slow + extra 3 secs after controlling expires. to better accommodate the pvp, the runspeed of bonus can be increased to 5 secs, guaranteeing at least 6 seconds of free speed after a simple critical.
remembering that the powerfull challange come to the base damage in the "zacazu world". all trees received a free extra damage feet of 15%.
this is not the final and definitive solution. is a change that would lead to those other . in a bad scenerio , even if you dont exchange bravery by steadfast, could accumulate the two bonus and have up to 30% more run speed. or that+ new steadfast determination if is your style. i think it would be a good close gap and still have a good value for sm and pve.
why this would be useless? are 5 points for you to spend as you wish or an additional 15% damage if you previously have ignored this feet.
in the case of change of 5% debuff of sos for slow (in my opinion, 3 stacks of 5%), you will "cheat" Fleet Footed using one point in sos, and got a better close gape and still have your 15% of a of the extinct powerfull change. what is the point? at least if have some big diference between this damage buff and a simple debuff for pvp. but that dont considers the sm problems, the original gwf, so i dont care.
free buff in damage democratic to sm/non sentinel+close gap using a previous useless t1 of instigator and a change to steadfast to use unstoppable after a sprint. is a perfect synergy (i guess) AND is not limited to a single feet like got damage of a tank tree. are 2 feets for an indirect buff for a secondary aspect of the class (sprint) AFTER fix a historical problem of the base damage.
note:The Instigator combines cunning and strength to harnesses the ferocity of battle into precision attacks and tatical maneuvers.
now your critical damage (ferocity) will improbe your tatical maneuvers (sprint). the diference is, that is not will only a a remote combo using t3/t4 feets like nsf and slow after spinning strike. but work since in t1 to a small progression. and if you are a destroyer and chose this feets, so you have a little of " use ferocit for tatical maneuvers" because that is the discription of the tree and a existent combo to be improved.
cause for example my opinion/feedback that i said in "my world" will give utility/different roles for GWF in a pvp match.
and if i agree with every good change that will make the gwf to perform better i will add that to my "wishing list" so adding what you guys sayin over what i want will make the gwf overkill. so i think the best solution should be chosen, but the truth is that something should be done.
the Instigator it's like 30% of what he can do in PVP so he really needs a buff.
and same with destroyer it's pumped up, but he still mising someth and that daze would be his final key.
and with intimidation sentinels, this build should do less burst more often and bring utility for the team to those 2 encounters.
and in matter of classfeats this is how it should be
destroyer paragon = destroyer class feat + bravery
sentinels = Weapon master + bravery/trample the fallen.
instigators = bravery + trample the fallen / and a buffed Steadfastdetermination.
sentinels will perform on node 2.
destroyer on home node
and instigators on enemy node.
thats how i see it and should be.
Yeah I think I agree with what your saying the most.
I think my proposals accomplish that pretty well.
1) Strength changed to 2% dmg boost (up from 1%)
2) Either - reduce the HP % needed for unstoppable or give determination gain while using sprint
3) Remove Powerful Challenge (possible replace with the determination gained from sprint feat - since its T2 anyone can get it)
4) Remove combat advantage from Mark and reduce mark back to 8% damage boost (down from 20%).
5) Take the "formula" for Crushing Surge (the GF at will) and PASTE that onto Sure Strike. My GF with minimal Power HITS for 1700+. With more weapon damage and damage bonuses on my GWF I should be hitting sure strike for 2500.
6) REMOVE the damage penalty on at wills during unstoppable.
7) Roar given a 1 second "daze".
8) Frontline/Takedown given prone back - although it CAN be a shorter duration than previously. (Nobody wants to see module 3 repeated)
9) Flourish - Id like to see this deal more damage than IBS.
see while I understand these changes might improve the class for pvp.. it would absolutely ruin it in pve.. by removing mark/powerful challenge and combat advantage you would find pve GWFs would probably lose 40-50% of their pve dps.. The class would need massive buffs across the board to compensate
The adjustments have to consider both pve and pvp and some of these change would leave the class with more issues than it has now
that is my point... for this i want to pass to the base because so much damage come to a mechanical of gf/ + t2 of sentinel is wrong. but that damage is necessary for the entire class, so... in the base by definition.
about the other things, i believe in my ideas and believe the antagonism of ideas. if the devs take my ideas, good, if take a practical arrangement between ideas, fine. but that is just for fun.
Im not sure about that. Yes you would have less damage, but most likely would still be running with a GF correct? That gives back CA damage.
STR going to 2% from 1% gives about another 15% dmg boost (if at 25 STR)
I think your overlooking at will damage.
If they take the coding of Crushing Surge and apply that damage to Sure Strike youll be seeing 3k+ HITS with sure strike. Then if you remove the damage penalty during unstoppable as well, now your huge attack speed boost is gonna beef up your damage alot as well.
If you provide determination gain from sprint OR less HP lost to pop unstoppable this means more destroyer stacks faster, more faster at wills in unstoppable.
Overall you might see a DPS loss because SO much of our damage comes from Mark+CA+Feat. The feat is negated by the STR boost.
So really mark = 20% damage boost and CA = about another 8%
If mark bumped back to 8% overall this would only be a 20% damage loss.
Now if your at wills hit 2x as hard, and you didnt lose damage during unstoppable on at wills, how much would that boost your damage? Maybe more than 20%.
I dont think it would be a loss to DPS, ontop of that with determination changes youd be more tanky and rely LESS on Unstoppable AND! Have more feat points freed up to use in the Instagator Tree - which when you look at THOSE damage buffs - would DEFINITELY MORE than break even on damage.
So overall I disagree, I think youd end up with at the LEAST the same damage, possibly more.
On my GF when I do the same with Crushing Surge I show: 194-194
So its DOUBLE our damage.
THEN you factor in that our weapon damage is ALOT higher, I take back the "double at wills" It would be more like triple at will damage.
So youd would TRIPLE your at will damage with sure strike and THEN NOT lose damage per hit while unstoppable meaning THAT becomes a massive DPS boost as well.
So id be willing to wager it would be a nice DPS increase.
No. NO. NO!
Now let's see what you propose 2% for every str, fine... But losing powerful challenge 15%, CA 15%+ and mark getting reduced to 8%... You can't be serious. Those bonuses are multiplicative, so you're suggesting to lose 58.7% damage and get 8% + bonus from str instead? With my str that would be +8%. What an improvement! Are you high, man??? GWF damage is already abysmal and what you suggest would kill the class completely.
On a side note, Flourish should not deal higher dmg than IBS. Why the **** should it? It's a lvl 30 power and it stuns. Speeding up animation is all it needs.
Seriously, do you even think what you're suggesting or just spill what's on the top of your tongue?