"Now if your at wills hit 2x as hard, and you didnt lose damage during unstoppable on at wills, how much would that boost your damage? Maybe more than 20%. "
i will got a reaping strike of +/-22455k over the top... i like, but...
Now let's see what you propose 2% for every str, fine... But losing powerful challenge 15%, CA 15%+ and mark getting reduced to 8%... You can't be serious. Those bonuses are multiplicative, so you're suggesting to lose 58.7% damage and get 8% + bonus from str instead? With my str that would be +8%. What an improvement! Are you high, man??? GWF damage is already abysmal and what you suggest would kill the class completely.
On a side note, Flourish should not deal higher dmg than IBS. Why the **** should it? It's a lvl 30 power and it stuns. Speeding up animation is all it needs.
Seriously, do you even think what you're suggesting or just spill what's on the top of your tongue?
It is somehow accepted on this forum that when a person writes not only many but long posts as well, he becomes a contributing member of valued opinion.. Personally I think ayroux should be banned from posting suggestions altogether . All he does is proposing complete overhauls for any given topic. If I had to use a diplomatic word to describe his posts, that would be 'outlandish'.
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
as much as i want a prone we better not have one, when the target is proned he cannot deflect meaning that you can one shot him with IBS .
takedown on destroyer has 7 sec cooldown, a prone every 7 second is overkill
FLS with prone on a GF is overkill also.
its okai to nerf a little the intimidation speccs but not from CBA or MARK.
i rather be nerfed from his BASE damage. and once he got nerfed there i want him to get 2-3 second shorter cooldowns ont hos encounters + utility to the team.
CAGI + 20% flat damage for 3 sec to u and ur entire team can work like into the frey.
Daring shout increases the DR to you and your allies for 5 Seconds would help alot/ or a 1-2 second immunity frame.
but a nerf on the base damage it would be enough. if 350% is to much at some point, it will be decreased to 300%. and so on.
flourish needs a FASTER CASTING like zveris said, not to deal more damage, cuz it already do alot of damage, especially when it crits. and weapon master strike needs faster casting aswell.
for unstopable hmm. unstopable can be how it is right now, but increase the temporary hit points you get when you enter in unstopable.
lets say about 10%-15% out of your max HP .
and yes unstopable should not give a penalty to at wills anymore.
and zveris said increase the base damage
well for what i remember FLS/takedown/Tthreating rush and probably some others encounters got a nerfed for 30% damage base before because they've done to much damage before. even if u said trade the mark damage and cba for a base increasment just to make SM to perform better is not a great idea.
IV has his own mechanic that differs than SM, and GWF started with SM path and seeing now SM is used more by GF. but i dont see a problem and i dont see a reason to over buff the SM. just because IV has threating rush and SM doesn't. when it should have a new WEAPON MASTER STRIKE rework that should be a gap closure + mark.
and man you should try destroyer/instigator in PVP, they really do resonable damage.
and zveris said increase the base damage
well for what i remember FLS/takedown/Tthreating rush and probably some others encounters got a nerfed for 30% damage base before because they've done to much damage before. even if u said trade the mark damage and cba for a base increasment just to make SM to perform better is not a great idea.
IV has his own mechanic that differs than SM, and GWF started with SM path and seeing now SM is used more by GF. but i dont see a problem and i dont see a reason to over buff the SM. just because IV has threating rush and SM doesn't. when it should have a new WEAPON MASTER STRIKE rework that should be a gap closure + mark.
and man you should try destroyer/instigator in PVP, they really do resonable damage.
you are not seeing the changes in a chronological order ...
1 - tr and fls received this nerf and then, after a disastrous sequence of buffs to other classes, mark began to ensure an extra bonus corrected for these two encounters and the entire class.
*"mea culpa". in this time, i show this: a blue gear aimed shot hit more hard than a ibs 19k or more.
2 - about improve sm, no. and the next paragon, will receive a mechanical recycled to GF+use t2 of sentinel to improve your damage? you have a inconsistence here, a lazy work and a historical problem (huge sword, the biggest power of the game and HAMSTER base damage). solve 3 in one shot.
this is a gwf problem, dont need involve the gf balance or banalize even more your mechanical to cover this pathetical base damage that dont have reason to exist. more than a general buff, is a cleaning.
note: sm-destroyers dont lose combat advantage damage because of bf and t2. instigators receive combat advantage for t3. for sentinels, ds still a good encounter. is democratic. what change in the life of iv? a extra atwill for pve and be free of a feet of +15% of damage. both win.
Just to give an example. On my GWF when you take off your weapon, Sure Strike shows: 86-86 damage.
On my GF when I do the same with Crushing Surge I show: 194-194
So its DOUBLE our damage.
THEN you factor in that our weapon damage is ALOT higher, I take back the "double at wills" It would be more like triple at will damage.
So youd would TRIPLE your at will damage with sure strike and THEN NOT lose damage per hit while unstoppable meaning THAT becomes a massive DPS boost as well.
So id be willing to wager it would be a nice DPS increase.
Do you know how slow the Crushing Surge animation is and how drawn out the full 3-swing sequence is? Against a good opponent in PVP you are lucky to hit him with one swing of Crushing Surge before he's moved and is attacking you back. Try swing a second time against a good opponent and I can guarantee he'll catch you in animation lock and hurt you. The only time I ever manage a full 3 swings of Crushing Surge is against a perma-CC'd player or against a poorly-skilled player that just stands there and lets me hit him.
A full Crushing Surge rotation is a GF's version of Reaping Strike. Aside from hitting Valindra, Tiamat's Heralds and the odd swing in PVP, it comes second to Cleave, which is much faster and has an AOE.
By comparison Sure Strike is a much, much faster animation and even faster in Unstoppable. Sure Strike can also hit multiple targets while it is pretty much impossible to hit two people with Crushing Surge.
I'd say rather remove the damage reduction on at-wills in Unstoppable before turning Sure Strike in to a cannon.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
I skipped Mod 4 as my GWF, played my GF during that module then took a break. About the last weekish, ive been playing my GWF and never really looked much but started doing more PVP recently.
I USED to have to lose around 15-20% of my HP and would have about 1/2 and Unstoppable bar. Now it seems I must lose closer to 40% of my HP to gain half an unstoppable and even during that half unstoppable, because its only half, I feel like I am wearing paper still.
I know this was recently changed, and I would please ask you revisit this "formula" and make it so it doesnt require AS much HP lost to get half a bar of unstoppable.
if it is HP based. I would think 15% is more than fair for HP lost with 30% lost for a full bar.
Currently I have to lose nearly half my HP just to pop unstoppable at a full bar, and by the time I do that im basically dead anyways (with all the piercing damage and high ARP damage classes like TR/HR/CW have). Also, its fairly easy to dodge a GWF now-a-days since most classes have 5+ dodges/blinks and GWFs sprint still only lasts like 4 seconds (even after being buffed)
EDIT: After some testing, it seems they changed determination gain from taking attacks, to HP lost. However their scaling seems to be about 25% HP lost for 4 second unstoppable and about 45% HP lost for a 8 second unstoppable.
Things like Entangling Force(CW CC) built ZERO determination as well as encounters he was using while I was Sprinting (with higher DR) also built very little determination. (Since you lose LITTLE hp)
I think if this is the case, they need to adjust how much % of HP lost to per determination gain. I would submit that 15-30% (half - full) would be sufficient. Thats about where it used to be when DR factored into the equation.
If you wanted to leave EVERYTHING else the same without making any changes. ALL you would need to do is give GWFs a feat (like TRs have) where they generate determination from sprinting. TRs generate stealth while dodging. So if GWFs could generate determination from sprinting it would be MUCH more fair.
You may respect your GWF cause right now GWF are kicking HAMSTER this las week maybe they ninja buff it cause their AOE and single attack are deadly, even TR cant win against GWF last month they are paper thin now they are hard as a steel I'd rather face other class like GF and CW cause most of them are easy to kill.
You may respect your GWF cause right now GWF are kicking HAMSTER this las week maybe they ninja buff it cause their AOE and single attack are deadly, even TR cant win against GWF last month they are paper thin now they are hard as a steel I'd rather face other class like GF and CW cause most of them are easy to kill.
No, there was no GWF buff. What you see is the extinction of GWF class where only the strongest yet remain.
but i agree with determination gain,either loosing sprint u gain determination, either give more temporary HitPoints, either make it Pop more Often.
yes instigator gives CBA from not so fast/mighty leap, that are useless in pvp
destroyer from BF that is useless in PVP.
and sentinels from DS that is ok.
but why would you nerf Powerfull challenge and Mark?
like i said WEAPON MASTER STRIKE SHOULD BE REWORKED and everyone can get the MARK.
and if you build a destroyer IV for PVP u must be insane to go with Powerfull challenge ( only in PVP)
no, no, no. mark can still give combat advantage. and the previous bonus of 15 (35) damage will be threat. so, you can spend spending points of powerfull challange in another thing for pvp and pve in you will have better tank if chose this feet.
that is, mark will be the tank / utility tool to come to class tank / tank tree and the damage come to the base. simple like that.
nothing change for iv/sentinels (a extra feet for pvp only) and your idea about intimidation can be implementated.
no, no, no. mark can still give combat advantage. and the previous bonus of 15 (35) damage will be threat. so, you can spend spending points of powerfull challange in another thing for pvp and pve in you will have better tank if chose this feet.
that is, mark will be the tank / utility tool to come to class tank / tank tree and the damage come to the base. simple like that.
nothing change for sentinels and yout damage idea about intimidation can be implementated.
if mark stays and CBA from mark stays.
and 15% damage from powerfull challenge will be changed in 35% more threat.
where will the 15% damage from powerfull chalange will go?
in base damage for every paragon?
mark stay, sir. mark stay. THE DAMAGE of mark and powefull challange go to the base and the old powerfull challange/mark bonus will be threat bonus. only that. pvp sentinels got a free feet, destroyers/ instigators, 2 if want a full damage build.
in pve, iv receive a freedom to not need use tr and sm, ds. desotryers/ instigator sm for pvp receive a buff of 35%, that is, will hit like a iv.
add to that: more radius/no longer aoe penalitys for pve, and the suggested changes for instigators and you still adapt your intimidation change.
Do you know how slow the Crushing Surge animation is and how drawn out the full 3-swing sequence is? Against a good opponent in PVP you are lucky to hit him with one swing of Crushing Surge before he's moved and is attacking you back. Try swing a second time against a good opponent and I can guarantee he'll catch you in animation lock and hurt you. The only time I ever manage a full 3 swings of Crushing Surge is against a perma-CC'd player or against a poorly-skilled player that just stands there and lets me hit him.
A full Crushing Surge rotation is a GF's version of Reaping Strike. Aside from hitting Valindra, Tiamat's Heralds and the odd swing in PVP, it comes second to Cleave, which is much faster and has an AOE.
By comparison Sure Strike is a much, much faster animation and even faster in Unstoppable. Sure Strike can also hit multiple targets while it is pretty much impossible to hit two people with Crushing Surge.
I'd say rather remove the damage reduction on at-wills in Unstoppable before turning Sure Strike in to a cannon.
I never said replace sure strike with crushing surge. I said take the "formula" they use and paste it into the damage for Sure Strike
SO this would be sure strike but youd get a base of nearly 2x that amount. Then because GWFs have higher +damage% than GWFs AND higher weapon damage this means your at wills would hit BASE for about 3k without any damage buffs from Destroyer or Instagator.
With those buffs 1 sure strike would probably hit for 5k+.
Also NO damage reduction during unstoppable for at wills, meaning you would be an at will machine with a huge DPS boost.
I dont want to just see GWFs given more and more damage.
I dont see how you can just give all GWFs more "base" damage... What are you gonna do? re-do all the abilities for GWF?
Maybe they need to also make things like Great Weapon Focus bump up to 15% as well. That would be another % dmg boost for at wills.
I dont think GWFs should have to rely on encounters to do massive damage. Also, Id like to see the damage penalty removed when a GWF strikes multiple targets with at wills. That would boost damage as well.
Too much of our damage comes from mark currently. Its really pathetic.
if mark stays and CBA from mark stays.
and 15% damage from powerfull challenge will be changed in 35% more threat.
where will the 15% damage from powerfull chalange will go?
in base damage for every paragon?
This is what I was saying as well. My option was if you add 2% dmg for each STR point, for most GWFs that atleast a 10-15% damage boost.
and sentinels will go for more power from destro paragon, and destro will go after instigator caps. and instigator can pick 1 cap from destro and another from sentinel, yus. that is great and GWF gets a 15% damage buff without marking. yea i can agree with that.
and sentinels will go for more power from destro paragon, and destro will go after instigator caps. and instigator can pick 1 cap from destro and another from sentinel, yus. that is great and GWF gets a 15% damage buff without marking. yea i can agree with that.
yes, but not everyone goes full con/str to benefit from STR. but that increasmnet to STR will be great in PVE.
sentinels no, because will need spend 10 points to go for t3. for destroyers and instigators? yes, is a buff of damage because the "tank" is a garbage now.
Tbh, I'd like to see unstoppable unleash a 20-40' mark the moment you activate it. In turn DS effect range could increase to 30', DR buff improved but no more mark for this encounter. In that way it wouldn't matter if you're SM or IV.
you are losing to much 4% crit chance and 3% deflect .
its better to increase the base damage by 15% on everything.
i dont understand. well, the point is. destroyers will dont need expent 10 point in sentinels. in fact, if want a defensive build, now will have the entire t1 of sentinels. a "lazaroth build" that is, a destroyer instigator hibrid got a buff of 15% and now can change ds for other encounter. is more sustain damage. instigators, 10% of atwills and more power for destroyers if want a ofensive build. a ofensive sentinel dont got nothing offensive, will chose for a complete t1 of your tree or more threat of the new powerfull challange (maybe a paragon feet)
the intimidation changes? you can add that. dont change my "destroyer life" in nothing. to my part, you just got a free t1 feet of sentinels or a paragon feet.
in the case of pvp, if you do the instigators changes, this 5 extra poins can be 12% of run speed after a critical damage, that is, more close gap.
for pve a lazaroth build lose 5 of damage (the buff now is only 10%) to got 10 or 15% of slow after a critical damage (is just a hipothetical number). but the radius of aoe atwills is better now, so, we dont will lose the oponents, add a good utility for the party (remember, slow, for gwfs is a close gap and not a defensive tool). so, the same principle will have diffferents porposes for pve and pvp, but work in both, sm or iv.
yes, but not everyone goes full con/str to benefit from STR. but that increasmnet to STR will be great in PVE.
This, IMO, is part of the problem. Strength is the GWFs primary stat. In PnP you would NEVER play a fighter with low STR.
For GFs I understand Con is arguably the most important.
So either ARP needs to be removed from Con and added to STR (which would then make STR much better) but not really buff the GWF at all, actually maybe make them worse!
Or just make Strength equal 2% damage instead of 1%. GF had Con buffed up, TRs have had Dex buffed.
GWFs need to have STR buffed. Now its a true tradeoff between damage/hp/crit
So most GWFs (if this change happens) WILL be using atleast 20 STR - meaning this is a minimum 10% MORE damage for any GWF. Alot of GWFs have 24-25 STR and with the STR belt, you can even see much higher.
My biggest goal is to take SOME of the damage that Mark+CA+Powerful Challenge gives GWFs and allocate that to other areas.
At wills, currently, are the MOST pathetic on the GWF. The fact that we need 50% damage buff capstones to be competitive is just silly!
This is why the thing I would like to see buffed FIRST is at wills.
On my TR when I hit someone with a dagger, or better yet, THROW a little dagger at them it hits for like 1k+. So why is it when I hit someone with a 2H sword that is 2x the weapon damage and like 10x larger in pixels it does the SAME damage?
GWFS at wills should hit the HARDEST. Id rather see our at wills beefed up like 300% more damage and also remove the penalty during unstoppable than to give us more +dmg% somewhere else.
Our at wills should HIT in the 3-5k damage range on a dummy. This would put an at will crit on a dummy up to like 6-10k for just ONE hit. Now in PVP that would be scaled down obviously, but this is the direction I would like to see happen. Because if we shift MORE damage to our at wills instead of relying on encounters, now we can use more utility encounters without losing damage.
THAT, I think, should be the goal of this class. Because currently ALL our damage comes from encounters. I think it would be really run to be able to utilize utility encounters rather than feeling forced to use the same DPS encounter setup thats been around since OB.
For Destroyers, wouldnt it be fun to feel like you could use Roar/Takedown/Frontline(or Flourish) without feeling forced into IBS?
Another thing I would like to see would be some type of % chance to daze a target with our at wills. Dont re-act like its the same as the TR, since we have no way to throw our weapon. Also it could be a much lower % chance. Even 5% chance, this could be a good instigator feat.
well i was agreeing with the 15% base increase cuz its better than +2 STR db increase,cause insti/destro will always go full con/dex in pvp and +4% crit +2% deflect chance will need to sacrified in order to get more DMG.
but i can agree if both solutions are implemented.
as for PVP intimidation build they need 4 caps in sentinel and 2 in other paragons, except that they wont pick powerfull challenge anymore.
and yes i agree with you ayo in matter of atwills
yes we have big sword with huge weapon damage
but let me explain as i am not a native english speaker.
lets make a scale from 0-10 of how atwills and weapon damage works.
the atwill base damage it's number 0 and the weapon damage it's number 10. that was from the GWF release, but here is the problem what happened by each mode passed away.
a Trickster at will in mod 1 was like number 5 and the weapon damage lets say number 5, and by each mode he got more buffs, why? because of power creep.
makin a TR having 8k power (he can stack probably more) and transforming his number 5 from atwill damage in a number 7-8.
so that was probably how it should have been from the beginin,GWF with low atwill damage + big weapon damage, but each class has destroyed this balance, and only the gwf is still keeping it.
so the TR/cw//hr etc have increased their atwill damage makin both atwill damage and weapon damage to be a little off.
i dont know if i made myself clear here tryin to explain.
thats why the class balance should be done from TOP tier, to limit the damage of each class, well they didnt do that cause that meant to each mod to nerf something on each mod, but now that we will get mod 6, and i doubt we will get more things out.
probably 1 new neck + belt and artifact set (of the new content name) but no more artifact gear like rings/underwear etc. and they will put a stop of that, i belive mod 6 should be dedicated in balancing the classes, they even said no more boons, and there is not even a point in more stats. so that being said mod6 should be the mod when all classes should be balanced and changes should be done on top tier limiting their damage.
for example i wouldn't mind a 23k TR dealing me a 30k crit SE. but a 12k TR should deal me 10k crit damage.
the same with CW . seriously, they deal alot of damage from auto proccing and iceknife that hits 84k unmitigated ( 40k mitigated damage) with 9.6k power.
daze in atwills is problematic ... will Represent more control, the perma control. slow only have to close gap / "off tank" propose and is just something smart but bad worked in instigator tree. is not a new idea.
now, up the base damage of atwills in 300% and non mitigated unstoppable speed bonus will put the ws-wms combo in millions over few seconds. i like, but ...
now, pass mark damage and power changes, in fact, wil represent a pratic buff of 28% for non sentinels. is not too op.
daze in atwills is problematic ... will Represent more control, the perma control. slow only have to close gap / "off tank" propose and is just something smart but bad worked in instigator tree. is not a new idea.
now, up the base damage of atwills in 300% and non mitigated unstoppable speed bonus will put the ws-wms combo in millions over few seconds. i like, but ...
I dont see how youd be at MILLIONS of damage. Im also not advocating ALL at wills get a 300% boost.
For AoE abilities it would have to scale back a bit to like 150% or 200% boost. I think 150% would be fine IF they removed the penalty to multiple targets.
Again, it would be awesome if our freaking 2H massive "Great Weapon" hit for more than a little tooth pick dagger did....
I dont think daze at wills is problamatic if its a low % chance like 5%. I mean thats an average of 20 hits to daze them for 1 second.
The chance youll get back to back dazes would be literally like <1% chance. So 5% might even be too low.
I do like you slow idea. I wouldnt mind seeing 5% slow added to SotS stacks (T1 Insta feat) That combined with the Drow PVP set slow stacks of another 5% (x3) We could actually slow someone by 30% ish if we stacked that all.
Overall GWFs need more at will damage and more PASSIVE "CC" to enable you to not have to run CC encounters. 5% chance to daze is nothing. Even a 5% slow on encounter use is VERY small.
in pve, iv receive a freedom to not need use tr and sm, ds. desotryers/ instigator sm for pvp receive a buff of 35%, that is, will hit like a iv.
you are a bit wrong, tr puts a mark DS puts another mark and they cumulate (dont rly recall now if the multiply or add).
Overall you are heavily underestimating the pure sentinel dmg. In a tiamat run a full sentinel build with disciple of war can make it to 17 mil dmg in a run, most of the dmg done in cleric phase. If mages wouldnt push adds so much it could go even higher, secret is to stack marks. (hope panda will provide that log with dmg done on each target)
the base of reaping strikeis is +/- 4K. unstoppable, you can use it 4 times in intervals of 2 secs (roar 7.2 secs of cooldown). the damage is per target, cap 5. up this base in 300% and this base will be doubled by destroyer combos.
and wms + ws does more damage. dont get me wrong, I think the 35% increase is a minimal increase. but this kind of buff (200/300%) should have been given before the general rework the destroyer and the paranoid of stacks. now will demand a new big rework.
I never said replace sure strike with crushing surge. I said take the "formula" they use and paste it into the damage for Sure Strike
SO this would be sure strike but youd get a base of nearly 2x that amount. Then because GWFs have higher +damage% than GWFs AND higher weapon damage this means your at wills would hit BASE for about 3k without any damage buffs from Destroyer or Instagator.
With those buffs 1 sure strike would probably hit for 5k+.
Also NO damage reduction during unstoppable for at wills, meaning you would be an at will machine with a huge DPS boost.
That is my point, Crushing Surge is nothing like Sure Strike. Crushing Surge is very slow and hits one target at a time, Sure Strike is much faster and even faster in Unstoppable and can hit multiple targets. GWFs hitting for 3 - 5k with such a fast-casting at-will is insane. And then when you get your Ferocity of the Golden Dragon to purple and orange, how much harder is it hitting now? My GF's Anvil of Doom can only hit for 6k in PVP and you want an at-will to do 5k damage?
Giving Sure Strike the Crushing Surge formula is giving the GWF a 4th encounter. An at-will that will hit harder than many encounters.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
you are a bit wrong, tr puts a mark DS puts another mark and they cumulate (dont rly recall now if the multiply or add).
Overall you are heavily underestimating the pure sentinel dmg. In a tiamat run a full sentinel build with disciple of war can make it to 17 mil dmg in a run, most of the dmg done in cleric phase. If mages wouldnt push adds so much it could go even higher, secret is to stack marks.
so is a abusive bug and need be fixed and/or transferred to the base :rolleyes:
I'm talking about cleaning the class for all trees and paths.
Comments
i will got a reaping strike of +/-22455k over the top... i like, but...
It is somehow accepted on this forum that when a person writes not only many but long posts as well, he becomes a contributing member of valued opinion.. Personally I think ayroux should be banned from posting suggestions altogether
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
you want to replace a 1.667 multiplier by a 1.24?! No ty
If you want to propose a fix, take a look at this:
http://i916.photobucket.com/albums/ad7/Yhztro/dragonheaddmg_zpsf7c68efb.jpg
SoD accounted for 11 mil dmg out of 18 mil for one TR in that party, ofc gwf dmg feels low...
takedown on destroyer has 7 sec cooldown, a prone every 7 second is overkill
FLS with prone on a GF is overkill also.
its okai to nerf a little the intimidation speccs but not from CBA or MARK.
i rather be nerfed from his BASE damage. and once he got nerfed there i want him to get 2-3 second shorter cooldowns ont hos encounters + utility to the team.
CAGI + 20% flat damage for 3 sec to u and ur entire team can work like into the frey.
Daring shout increases the DR to you and your allies for 5 Seconds would help alot/ or a 1-2 second immunity frame.
but a nerf on the base damage it would be enough. if 350% is to much at some point, it will be decreased to 300%. and so on.
flourish needs a FASTER CASTING like zveris said, not to deal more damage, cuz it already do alot of damage, especially when it crits. and weapon master strike needs faster casting aswell.
for unstopable hmm. unstopable can be how it is right now, but increase the temporary hit points you get when you enter in unstopable.
lets say about 10%-15% out of your max HP .
and yes unstopable should not give a penalty to at wills anymore.
and zveris said increase the base damage
well for what i remember FLS/takedown/Tthreating rush and probably some others encounters got a nerfed for 30% damage base before because they've done to much damage before. even if u said trade the mark damage and cba for a base increasment just to make SM to perform better is not a great idea.
IV has his own mechanic that differs than SM, and GWF started with SM path and seeing now SM is used more by GF. but i dont see a problem and i dont see a reason to over buff the SM. just because IV has threating rush and SM doesn't. when it should have a new WEAPON MASTER STRIKE rework that should be a gap closure + mark.
and man you should try destroyer/instigator in PVP, they really do resonable damage.
you are not seeing the changes in a chronological order ...
1 - tr and fls received this nerf and then, after a disastrous sequence of buffs to other classes, mark began to ensure an extra bonus corrected for these two encounters and the entire class.
*"mea culpa". in this time, i show this: a blue gear aimed shot hit more hard than a ibs 19k or more.
2 - about improve sm, no. and the next paragon, will receive a mechanical recycled to GF+use t2 of sentinel to improve your damage? you have a inconsistence here, a lazy work and a historical problem (huge sword, the biggest power of the game and HAMSTER base damage). solve 3 in one shot.
this is a gwf problem, dont need involve the gf balance or banalize even more your mechanical to cover this pathetical base damage that dont have reason to exist. more than a general buff, is a cleaning.
note: sm-destroyers dont lose combat advantage damage because of bf and t2. instigators receive combat advantage for t3. for sentinels, ds still a good encounter. is democratic. what change in the life of iv? a extra atwill for pve and be free of a feet of +15% of damage. both win.
Do you know how slow the Crushing Surge animation is and how drawn out the full 3-swing sequence is? Against a good opponent in PVP you are lucky to hit him with one swing of Crushing Surge before he's moved and is attacking you back. Try swing a second time against a good opponent and I can guarantee he'll catch you in animation lock and hurt you. The only time I ever manage a full 3 swings of Crushing Surge is against a perma-CC'd player or against a poorly-skilled player that just stands there and lets me hit him.
A full Crushing Surge rotation is a GF's version of Reaping Strike. Aside from hitting Valindra, Tiamat's Heralds and the odd swing in PVP, it comes second to Cleave, which is much faster and has an AOE.
By comparison Sure Strike is a much, much faster animation and even faster in Unstoppable. Sure Strike can also hit multiple targets while it is pretty much impossible to hit two people with Crushing Surge.
I'd say rather remove the damage reduction on at-wills in Unstoppable before turning Sure Strike in to a cannon.
You may respect your GWF cause right now GWF are kicking HAMSTER this las week maybe they ninja buff it cause their AOE and single attack are deadly, even TR cant win against GWF last month they are paper thin now they are hard as a steel I'd rather face other class like GF and CW cause most of them are easy to kill.
No, there was no GWF buff. What you see is the extinction of GWF class where only the strongest yet remain.
but i agree with determination gain,either loosing sprint u gain determination, either give more temporary HitPoints, either make it Pop more Often.
yes instigator gives CBA from not so fast/mighty leap, that are useless in pvp
destroyer from BF that is useless in PVP.
and sentinels from DS that is ok.
but why would you nerf Powerfull challenge and Mark?
like i said WEAPON MASTER STRIKE SHOULD BE REWORKED and everyone can get the MARK.
and if you build a destroyer IV for PVP u must be insane to go with Powerfull challenge ( only in PVP)
that is, mark will be the tank / utility tool to come to class tank / tank tree and the damage come to the base. simple like that.
nothing change for iv/sentinels (a extra feet for pvp only) and your idea about intimidation can be implementated.
if mark stays and CBA from mark stays.
and 15% damage from powerfull challenge will be changed in 35% more threat.
where will the 15% damage from powerfull chalange will go?
in base damage for every paragon?
in pve, iv receive a freedom to not need use tr and sm, ds. desotryers/ instigator sm for pvp receive a buff of 35%, that is, will hit like a iv.
add to that: more radius/no longer aoe penalitys for pve, and the suggested changes for instigators and you still adapt your intimidation change.
I never said replace sure strike with crushing surge. I said take the "formula" they use and paste it into the damage for Sure Strike
SO this would be sure strike but youd get a base of nearly 2x that amount. Then because GWFs have higher +damage% than GWFs AND higher weapon damage this means your at wills would hit BASE for about 3k without any damage buffs from Destroyer or Instagator.
With those buffs 1 sure strike would probably hit for 5k+.
Also NO damage reduction during unstoppable for at wills, meaning you would be an at will machine with a huge DPS boost.
I dont want to just see GWFs given more and more damage.
I dont see how you can just give all GWFs more "base" damage... What are you gonna do? re-do all the abilities for GWF?
Maybe they need to also make things like Great Weapon Focus bump up to 15% as well. That would be another % dmg boost for at wills.
I dont think GWFs should have to rely on encounters to do massive damage. Also, Id like to see the damage penalty removed when a GWF strikes multiple targets with at wills. That would boost damage as well.
Too much of our damage comes from mark currently. Its really pathetic.
This is what I was saying as well. My option was if you add 2% dmg for each STR point, for most GWFs that atleast a 10-15% damage boost.
yes, but not everyone goes full con/str to benefit from STR. but that increasmnet to STR will be great in PVE.
yes, 15% more is not much
sentinels no, because will need spend 10 points to go for t3. for destroyers and instigators? yes, is a buff of damage because the "tank" is a garbage now.
its better to increase the base damage by 15% on everything.
i dont understand. well, the point is. destroyers will dont need expent 10 point in sentinels. in fact, if want a defensive build, now will have the entire t1 of sentinels. a "lazaroth build" that is, a destroyer instigator hibrid got a buff of 15% and now can change ds for other encounter. is more sustain damage. instigators, 10% of atwills and more power for destroyers if want a ofensive build. a ofensive sentinel dont got nothing offensive, will chose for a complete t1 of your tree or more threat of the new powerfull challange (maybe a paragon feet)
the intimidation changes? you can add that. dont change my "destroyer life" in nothing. to my part, you just got a free t1 feet of sentinels or a paragon feet.
in the case of pvp, if you do the instigators changes, this 5 extra poins can be 12% of run speed after a critical damage, that is, more close gap.
for pve a lazaroth build lose 5 of damage (the buff now is only 10%) to got 10 or 15% of slow after a critical damage (is just a hipothetical number). but the radius of aoe atwills is better now, so, we dont will lose the oponents, add a good utility for the party (remember, slow, for gwfs is a close gap and not a defensive tool). so, the same principle will have diffferents porposes for pve and pvp, but work in both, sm or iv.
This, IMO, is part of the problem. Strength is the GWFs primary stat. In PnP you would NEVER play a fighter with low STR.
For GFs I understand Con is arguably the most important.
So either ARP needs to be removed from Con and added to STR (which would then make STR much better) but not really buff the GWF at all, actually maybe make them worse!
Or just make Strength equal 2% damage instead of 1%. GF had Con buffed up, TRs have had Dex buffed.
GWFs need to have STR buffed. Now its a true tradeoff between damage/hp/crit
So most GWFs (if this change happens) WILL be using atleast 20 STR - meaning this is a minimum 10% MORE damage for any GWF. Alot of GWFs have 24-25 STR and with the STR belt, you can even see much higher.
My biggest goal is to take SOME of the damage that Mark+CA+Powerful Challenge gives GWFs and allocate that to other areas.
At wills, currently, are the MOST pathetic on the GWF. The fact that we need 50% damage buff capstones to be competitive is just silly!
This is why the thing I would like to see buffed FIRST is at wills.
On my TR when I hit someone with a dagger, or better yet, THROW a little dagger at them it hits for like 1k+. So why is it when I hit someone with a 2H sword that is 2x the weapon damage and like 10x larger in pixels it does the SAME damage?
GWFS at wills should hit the HARDEST. Id rather see our at wills beefed up like 300% more damage and also remove the penalty during unstoppable than to give us more +dmg% somewhere else.
Our at wills should HIT in the 3-5k damage range on a dummy. This would put an at will crit on a dummy up to like 6-10k for just ONE hit. Now in PVP that would be scaled down obviously, but this is the direction I would like to see happen. Because if we shift MORE damage to our at wills instead of relying on encounters, now we can use more utility encounters without losing damage.
THAT, I think, should be the goal of this class. Because currently ALL our damage comes from encounters. I think it would be really run to be able to utilize utility encounters rather than feeling forced to use the same DPS encounter setup thats been around since OB.
For Destroyers, wouldnt it be fun to feel like you could use Roar/Takedown/Frontline(or Flourish) without feeling forced into IBS?
Another thing I would like to see would be some type of % chance to daze a target with our at wills. Dont re-act like its the same as the TR, since we have no way to throw our weapon. Also it could be a much lower % chance. Even 5% chance, this could be a good instigator feat.
but i can agree if both solutions are implemented.
as for PVP intimidation build they need 4 caps in sentinel and 2 in other paragons, except that they wont pick powerfull challenge anymore.
and yes i agree with you ayo in matter of atwills
yes we have big sword with huge weapon damage
but let me explain as i am not a native english speaker.
lets make a scale from 0-10 of how atwills and weapon damage works.
the atwill base damage it's number 0 and the weapon damage it's number 10. that was from the GWF release, but here is the problem what happened by each mode passed away.
a Trickster at will in mod 1 was like number 5 and the weapon damage lets say number 5, and by each mode he got more buffs, why? because of power creep.
makin a TR having 8k power (he can stack probably more) and transforming his number 5 from atwill damage in a number 7-8.
so that was probably how it should have been from the beginin,GWF with low atwill damage + big weapon damage, but each class has destroyed this balance, and only the gwf is still keeping it.
so the TR/cw//hr etc have increased their atwill damage makin both atwill damage and weapon damage to be a little off.
i dont know if i made myself clear here tryin to explain.
thats why the class balance should be done from TOP tier, to limit the damage of each class, well they didnt do that cause that meant to each mod to nerf something on each mod, but now that we will get mod 6, and i doubt we will get more things out.
probably 1 new neck + belt and artifact set (of the new content name) but no more artifact gear like rings/underwear etc. and they will put a stop of that, i belive mod 6 should be dedicated in balancing the classes, they even said no more boons, and there is not even a point in more stats. so that being said mod6 should be the mod when all classes should be balanced and changes should be done on top tier limiting their damage.
for example i wouldn't mind a 23k TR dealing me a 30k crit SE. but a 12k TR should deal me 10k crit damage.
the same with CW . seriously, they deal alot of damage from auto proccing and iceknife that hits 84k unmitigated ( 40k mitigated damage) with 9.6k power.
now, up the base damage of atwills in 300% and non mitigated unstoppable speed bonus will put the ws-wms combo in millions over few seconds. i like, but ...
now, pass mark damage and power changes, in fact, wil represent a pratic buff of 28% for non sentinels. is not too op.
I dont see how youd be at MILLIONS of damage. Im also not advocating ALL at wills get a 300% boost.
For AoE abilities it would have to scale back a bit to like 150% or 200% boost. I think 150% would be fine IF they removed the penalty to multiple targets.
Again, it would be awesome if our freaking 2H massive "Great Weapon" hit for more than a little tooth pick dagger did....
I dont think daze at wills is problamatic if its a low % chance like 5%. I mean thats an average of 20 hits to daze them for 1 second.
The chance youll get back to back dazes would be literally like <1% chance. So 5% might even be too low.
I do like you slow idea. I wouldnt mind seeing 5% slow added to SotS stacks (T1 Insta feat) That combined with the Drow PVP set slow stacks of another 5% (x3) We could actually slow someone by 30% ish if we stacked that all.
Overall GWFs need more at will damage and more PASSIVE "CC" to enable you to not have to run CC encounters. 5% chance to daze is nothing. Even a 5% slow on encounter use is VERY small.
you are a bit wrong, tr puts a mark DS puts another mark and they cumulate (dont rly recall now if the multiply or add).
Overall you are heavily underestimating the pure sentinel dmg. In a tiamat run a full sentinel build with disciple of war can make it to 17 mil dmg in a run, most of the dmg done in cleric phase. If mages wouldnt push adds so much it could go even higher, secret is to stack marks. (hope panda will provide that log with dmg done on each target)
and wms + ws does more damage. dont get me wrong, I think the 35% increase is a minimal increase. but this kind of buff (200/300%) should have been given before the general rework the destroyer and the paranoid of stacks. now will demand a new big rework.
That is my point, Crushing Surge is nothing like Sure Strike. Crushing Surge is very slow and hits one target at a time, Sure Strike is much faster and even faster in Unstoppable and can hit multiple targets. GWFs hitting for 3 - 5k with such a fast-casting at-will is insane. And then when you get your Ferocity of the Golden Dragon to purple and orange, how much harder is it hitting now? My GF's Anvil of Doom can only hit for 6k in PVP and you want an at-will to do 5k damage?
Giving Sure Strike the Crushing Surge formula is giving the GWF a 4th encounter. An at-will that will hit harder than many encounters.
so is a abusive bug and need be fixed and/or transferred to the base :rolleyes:
I'm talking about cleaning the class for all trees and paths.