Well right now, GWFs don't have a consistent counter to TR's shocking execution and/or bloodbath. That's where most of the biggest hits come from.
Wouldn't it be simpler to just lobby for a TR nerf?
This isnt the only issue.
If a CW targets the GWF first, DPS him down to say 60% HP. He pops unstoppable. The GWF has to close the gap between himself and the CW within 4-5 seconds.
The GWF can use sprint to close the gap and be helpless once unstoppable wears off, or he can run without it and most likely never catch the CW.
Even if he uses sprint, Sprints duration/recharge wont even allow him to keep up with more than 3 "blinks" from a CW. Most of which can easily do 4-5 in a row.
In the past this type of thing was less an issue because the GWF would only have to lose much less HP.
When they swapped determination to HP based rather than damage/control based it make ALL GWFs insanely less tanky.
Honestly where the Sentinel GWF is right now, is around what a Destroyer SHOULD be at.
Oh and its actually not even SE thats a big issue. Lashing Blade + Shadow of Demise is insanely strong too. YOu can crit a GWF easily for 20-30K Lashing without a Vorpal. If you use Bilethorn your SoD actualyl procs 2x.
Ive been 1 shot (technically 2 shot) by a TR who Lashing Blades me, then SoD procs 2-3 seconds after and the combination is 40-50k damage.
Since SoD is piercing damage, makes no difference how much DR I have.
Also runs into the same issue above, even if it is effected by DR, how is the GWf to catch a TR? His dodges "outpace" sprint. Dodge makes you immune to damage and CC. GWFs sprint is only CC Immune.
combined with ITC+Bloodbath, you really cant do much.
Can the GWF 2 shot a TR? Sure you can, if you get the jump and you get 1 of 2 encounters to crit (outside ITC).
Ive posted before about damage reductions for GWFs and am not opposed to that. But what is silly is how a Sentinel (Tank Spec) is one of the squishiest characters in the game.
Even if he uses sprint, Sprints duration/recharge wont even allow him to keep up with more than 3 "blinks" from a CW. Most of which can easily do 4-5 in a row.
At full stamina, a CW can only do 2-3 blinks in a row. Did you hit them with tons and tons of dots to proc their severe reaction?
i think it should stay the same way so that destroyers cannot be tanky while having high dps. Intimidation guys arent tanky because they want to stack power instead.
i think it should stay the same way so that destroyers cannot be tanky while having high dps. Intimidation guys arent tanky because they want to stack power instead.
Noone is really stacking power "instead" of anything. I have radiant 10s in all my defensive slots. The only way I could get more HP is to go with a Con Belt over a Dex/STR belt. Which would give me like 3k more HP.
Thats not gonna make any difference especially since determination is based upon HP % lost, that means I would have to lose MORE HP to gain unstoppable.
I know an intimidation Spec with about 8k Power and around 50k HP fully Potted up. Which is significantly more. But again you run into more issues as now you are slightly more tanky but you lost ALOT of damage potential and you still run into the same issues as before. Oh and you also give up 4% tenacity (rings set) to get this. Which means your not really THAT Much better off.
You cant catch anyone to kill anyone with decent skill. Can you PUG stomp? All day long.
Can you kill an equal GS player? Not unless you get the jump and lucky crits. Regardless of how Tanky you build, someone gets the jump on you, your dead.
Again, Sentinel is THE tank spec... Going FULL defensive makes it worse because now your offensive to defensive "ratio" is garbage. You cant kill anything and survive onyl a few seconds longer
The "same" way would have been leaving it the same as it has always been. Im not sure when it was changed but you used to have unstopabble much more available.
Noone is really stacking power "instead" of anything. I have radiant 10s in all my defensive slots. The only way I could get more HP is to go with a Con Belt over a Dex/STR belt. Which would give me like 3k more HP.
Thats not gonna make any difference especially since determination is based upon HP % lost, that means I would have to lose MORE HP to gain unstoppable.
I know an intimidation Spec with about 8k Power and around 50k HP fully Potted up. Which is significantly more. But again you run into more issues as now you are slightly more tanky but you lost ALOT of damage potential and you still run into the same issues as before. Oh and you also give up 4% tenacity (rings set) to get this. Which means your not really THAT Much better off.
You cant catch anyone to kill anyone with decent skill. Can you PUG stomp? All day long.
Can you kill an equal GS player? Not unless you get the jump and lucky crits. Regardless of how Tanky you build, someone gets the jump on you, your dead.
Again, Sentinel is THE tank spec... Going FULL defensive makes it worse because now your offensive to defensive "ratio" is garbage. You cant kill anything and survive onyl a few seconds longer
Oh and The "same" way would have been leaving it the same as it has always been. Im not sure when it was changed but you used to have unstopabble much more available.
The way it is atm. Yes like any other class without a cc break, if you get caught first you are mostly likely to lose the fight. If you want to be tanky you would lack dps. I really don't see the problem in that.
At full stamina, a CW can only do 2-3 blinks in a row. Did you hit them with tons and tons of dots to proc their severe reaction?
Just confirmed its 4 in a row. Also with Severe reaction you dont need to hit them "tons" for this to work.
Id take 4 "dodges" over a 4-5 second sprint anyday. Not only can you not catch the CWs dodges but your also not immune to damage during sprint like you are with dodge.
Now, this is just not true. CWs get three teleports. TRs and DC get four now (up from two previously). It's *possible* for CWs to gain more teleports, but that's mainly through Severe Reaction, or possibly through stacking a lot of stamina gain from boons and gear. Since everyone and their grandmother now runs Vorpal instead of Plaguefire, Severe Reaction is a lot less good than it used to be.
At this point, your thread is sounding a lot like you're mostly pining for the bad old days of CWs being free kills for GWFs. Roar getting daze? So the GWF will daze the CW in between dodge frames, then stun him and IBS him to death. Sounds familiar, except it's slightly more difficult to time a daze in between dodges than it was to simply ignore dodges. Adding more tankiness to all GWFs? They're more than tanky enough already. If you want more unstoppable, remove cc immunity on sprint.
The first priority to fix should be toning down Intimidation and GWF burst damage, while adding ways to give GWFs more consistent ability to output decent damage.
There are issues with GWFs, but they're related to their vulnerability to particular overpowered or broken things (SE and Sunburst), or power scaling (Intimidation). At the low-geared, low-skilled pug level, GWFs are bad. Fully geared, GWFs are solid, as long as they are played the right way and team composition isn't against them (i.e. the GWF is forced to 1v1 a TR).
The overall priority balance changes for PvP now should be nerfing down TRs and DCs and boosting SWs and possibly GFs a bit.
I have nothing against CWs, that was merely on the top of my head from today's game. The small window I had to catch him (during unstoppable) he outblinked my sprint and then I was IceKnifed for the remainder of HP the second I got out of unstoppable. Didnt even stand a chance at 40k HP and 25% tenacity.
If you have the Sharandar boon you can do 4 in a row.
I agree with you on the burst issue. Thats a separate thing. Why this entire thread came about was since I took a break from my GWF module 4 and beginning of 5 I never played when they changed intimidation gain.
It USED to be based on damage and not HP lost. I was an advocate for HP lost being what its measured by but not this severe. While I was farming boons I was destroyer and once I farmed most of the ARtifact equipment and boons (will finally have MH tomorrow and now working on mod 5 boons) did I swap over to Sent and start doing intimidation PVP.
This is when I noticed how un-believable squishy I was compared to even the beginning of module 4 on my GWF before I stopped. My Mod 3 Destroyer was more tanky than my Sent is today (yes mod 3 GWF was OP) but its just silly at HOW much determination was nerfed.
AS stated before, determination gain used to be around 12% HP lost as a sent for 4 seconds of unstoppable. Now its liek 25%. Literally HALF as effective.
This is why so many GWFs are really forced into playing the uber DPS build. Cause even when you build tanky you still cant 1v1 any class. So you turn into a node clearer glass canon.
Yeah the biggest issue is that no other class has to wait for their health to drop to use their dodge mechanism. They consider sprint to be our dodge, however the CC resist is not instantaneous so the only way we can "dodge" CC is either to be sprinting already or to go unstoppable and tank the damage while breaking CC. I have tried telling the Devs that unlike every other class (besides SW which needs a complete rework IMHO) that cannot dodge damage, we must simply take it. The only way to tank it is to use unstoppable but it comes up when half your health is already gone... bad Idea. It's this very problem that actually makes destroyers bad in PVP, you have to lose half your life to gain damage and it's too late by then.
"So first thing you need to do is break out your credit card..."
Haha, guess your right. My own GWF is around 22k GS in a Dom and I have spent money on NVW. Ol' Sabes is 25 and I've seen one person at almost 26 in a Dom.. Insane numbers. So its not just paying, its actually overpaying that gets you topside.
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Haha, guess your right. My own GWF is around 22k GS in a Dom and I have spent money on NVW. Ol' Sabes is 25 and I've seen one person at almost 26 in a Dom.. Insane numbers. So its not just paying, its actually overpaying that gets you topside.
Your join date is Nov 2012. That means you played in open beta before Cryptic nerfed the profitablity in PVE. I would've figured you were in position to actually have BIS gear without having to open your wallet like some players have. Of course, that would still entail you spending quite a bit of time farming Castle Never.
At this point, I wouldn't even mind the old Unstoppable/ Determination gain back, BUT. These must happen if the old Unstoppable/Determination gain is brought back:
1) Remove Intimidation completely from the game, A Swing around your head and a Scream hitting harder than a Battle Strike that can slice a target in two? Okay...
2) If we're talking about Module 2 Determination/Unstoppable, then CC immunity sprint has to go.
Your call.
Beta player
One of the many Control Wizards that misses Shard Of The Endless Avalanche. RIP Shard (Beta-Mod3)
And in module 4, GWFs got DR and cc immunity on sprint, so they overall get more cc resistance and DR throughout their lifespan, it's just not focused into the smaller more potent increments of unstoppable. If you give them the ability to pop unstoppable more often, you might as well say cc is inapplicable against them (unless it's of the nonsense broken sort that goes through cc immunities like Sunburst or Terrifying Impact), because then they'll be zooming around with sprint bursts, and if they get caught, they'll just pop unstoppable to break out.
This in turn just means people will focus more on burst damage builds and less on cc to compensate, which doesn't exactly help with anyone's survivability. You could say that GWFs get forced into DPS builds rather than tank builds, but GWFs are also forcing other classes into doing lots of burst damage. Oppressors just aren't going to work very well against GWFs, and trapper HRs don't have the best of times either.
The consequence of GWFs popping unstoppable more often would just be one more reason to maximize burst damage.
Also, the fact that you admit to this being a reaction to a change in how GWFs work now against how they worked early module 4 (before glyphs and other changes to the overall meta) or earlier, seems to validate that you're looking a bit too much at that as a reference point.
And they do a very good job at being that, as long as they're working as part of a team; two GWFs running together from node to node, a GWF working with a CW or trapper HR or DC. And they still have ample ability to win 1v1s against most classes (the ones that don't have broken tools to resort to); the ones they have no chance against are due to things that are separately broken and must be fixed.
If the aim is to allow for a larger variety of GWF builds, I think that's a good one. It would be nice to see tanky, non-mega bursty Sentinels and actual high-risk, high-reward Destroyers. The current in-vogue GWF build isn't weak in PvP at BiS levels when well managed and pitted against non-broken classes, though. Lower-geared versions struggle, which is a genuine issue. The mechanics of Destroyers aren't very good either, which is also an issue (I think they should just get an upfront damage boost and additional damage that scales with their health lost, not with hits made while unstoppable). Overall damage should also be toned down by increasing the value of Tenacity DR.
That is not true entirely.
Unstoppable got a double nerf of 40% in dr and around 100% in determination gain. It is 40% for a full bar. When people report otherwise they are usually non-gwf players and what they see is a half bar unstoppable.
Sprint buff covers the cc immunity to some degree making it more 'proactive', but as tyrion explained, it's not instant, it's not a proper dodge so you need to be already sprinting to be immune to cc, which leads to increased stamina usage and more difficulty in using it to dodge cc. Also, it does not cover the survivability issue for 2 reasons:
- first, sprint is our gap closer. It was enough to colse gaps and follow the enemy movements. Got increased by 40% which means a couple of seconds more of sprint for defensive purposes. It's not responsive enough, lacks proper immunity frames and lacks stamina regen and total stamina to fill the double role of gap closer and defensive tool, where other classes dodges are full defense and gap closing is achieved in other ways (encounters with auto-gap closing) or not needed (ranged classes/ encounters).
- second, massive introduction of piercing damage makes dr as useful to survive as a snowboard in the middle of Sahara desert.
- third: other classes got all massive DPS boosts
- fourth: a new heavy DPS ranged class was introduced.
Current gwf running on mid gets incinerated in seconds even when tank spec.
The double nerf brought the class in line with mod3 other classes. Then other classes got buffed. Pretty much all the players i tested with on preview during the mod3-->mod4 transition agreed that a double nerf was way too much.
People just talked about 'balance' but in the end when they get the chance, all they want is revenge and payback. Players got a thrauma from mod3 destro and just wanted gwf to get back to pre- mod 1 when the class was powerless.
In fact, all comments when CW, HR, TR got opness was : it's our turn. No more 'we need balance'.
Reminds me of the TR that during early mod2 complained (righteusly) about TR-fls combo being op. And then said 'yeah, cause in module 1 i could kite gwfs forever and kill them'. Which was his idea of 'balance'.
So a double nerf on unstoppable class mechanic, changed into an unreliable and underpowered 'buff' to sprint, mixed with buffs to other classes is now 'balance'.
Would also note how considering GF vs gwf, on preview in mod 4 pre mod 5 inti nerf, godmode could 100% winvs yunna (comparable gear). And GF is not even a op class. And since then intimidation got a shiny 30% nerf.
And inti sentinel is the only really viable pvp build exactly cause unstoppable got such nerfs (HD nerf temp hp, nerf det gain, nerf dr) that it is now useless to survive unless you get sentinel capstone and even so, it does not make gwf that survivable since sentinels still get burn fast vs equally geared players.. Adds nothing where other classes have 4th encounter, double power bar, stealth and divine mode+empowered.
Vs 8 seconds of cc immunity and useless dr for 8 seconds kitable after losing 40% of you hp.
And this is an issue for everyone. GFs feel it particularly hard. The logical response is to fix how that piercing damage works, not to boost each class individually to match. Combat HR piercing damage is fine now, since it's simply a 40% flat boost of their melee damage. TRs are now the ones that get some poorly-designed piercing damage procs like Shadowy Opportunity that does a set amount per attack, which makes otherwise low- to medium-damage abilities hit much harder than they should.
Your join date is Nov 2012. That means you played in open beta before Cryptic nerfed the profitablity in PVE. I would've figured you were in position to actually have BIS gear without having to open your wallet like some players have. Of course, that would still entail you spending quite a bit of time farming Castle Never.
I've played on and off and the only grind I can bring myself to do is for the campaigns. And even that is too much. Also nothing is free in this world, sept your life, you get that for free and and you can freely go and jump off a roof if ya want. Neverwinter is not a benevolent project created by a non-profit organization for the sole purpose of bringing 'fun' to people who like games. Neverwinter is a business, primary purpose is making money, secondary is being fun. In order to keep this game up and running somebody has to pay. If I can substitute the awful grind with money I do it. Just imagine you had to go and buy this game and pay a sub. That can amount for a good sum if we count all the time one has spent with the game. I work a full-time job, got a ton of hobbies outside gaming so this is how I roll
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
GWFs want back their mod2 days..."too much piercing damage" "we lost 30% of our hp before we go unstop"
Ok guys i aggree.Since you hit so soft you need your aleady excellent defence and your absurd high deflect(whom you gain through feats and not gear-same as some feats of Tr-yet you bash the TRs) to be raised.
An example of how soft you hit :
....... deals 841 (1037) Physical Damage to you with Fey Thistle.
[Combat (Self)] ..... is out of range.
[Combat (Self)] Your Health Regen gives 776 (1408) Hit Points to you.
[Combat (Self)] ..... deals 22 (110) Physical Damage to you with Deep Gash.
[Combat (Self)] Your Iceforge Healing Elixer gives 767 Hit Points to you.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! ...... deals 26123 (39768) Physical Damage to you with Intimidation.
[Combat (Self)] ...... deals 44 (110) Physical Damage to you with Deep Gash.
[Combat (Self)] Your Iceforge Healing Elixer gives 767 Hit Points to you.
[Combat (Self)] ........ Barkshield Armor absorbs 3 (1) damage from your Anvil of Doom.
[Combat (Self)] Your Anvil of Doom deals 1981 (5951) Physical Damage to .......
[Combat (Self)] ...... Barkshield Armor absorbs 4 (1) damage from your Bloodfire.
[Combat (Self)] Your Bloodfire deals 314 (1104) Fire Damage to ........
[Combat (Self)] Your Guard absorbs 5891 damage from ........ Intimidation.
[Combat (Self)] Your Guard absorbs 18 damage from ....... Deep Gash.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! ........ deals 1473 (40382) Physical Damage to you with Intimidation.
[Combat (Self)] ....... deals 4 (111) Physical Damage to you with Deep Gash.
But why only to ask your mod2 unstop to return?Deep gash must return too.All classes have dots GWFs must gain back their op DoT.And T1 pvp set must return to its old form ignoring healing depression.Cause you know ,GWf are barbarians!!!Why a barbarian must comply to civilized rules?And roar.Yes Roar must return to what it was.
Seriously now.Sorry to troll but you got some things in exchange for the rightfull god-mode unstop nerf.You want your old unstop back?
No more CC resist sprint for you,no intimidation either.And destroyer capstone to 25 stacks.You cannot have the whole pie and the dog well fed.High geared GWFs are doing supreme in pvp.
Your problem is the ranged dots and the ranged nukes from CWs,as also piercing damage.Instead of waking up bad memories where you trolled in domination entired teams -same as much TRs do now,with lower gs-ask for rightfull and reasonable things.
Remove intimidation altogether and ask for hard hitting encounters for both the destro and the sent and all we will support you.But not a form of an old god-mode unstop back.
Not mod2 GWF with modern glyphs and sets!
PS:i know some guys will accuse me of being liar cause in the log i posted intimidatrion proced twice in less that 6 secs.I am not, is the second time happening this ,happened 3 -4 months ago again, and this time i kept the log.Dwarven valley open pvp ,GWf had cockatrice.I do not have explanation either.
intimidation is a pathetic failure of devs trying to buff gwfs pathetic state to smth less pathetic, its useful only on 10k+ power gwfs, trash for less geared
intimidation has stupid design, its a feat that gives 2 gwf abilities damage from power(daring and come and get it), and power further increases damage, there are a ton of suggestions how to improve it but nobody cares
but the rest of gwf skills are so F$HAMSTER!#G bad that they may as well remove gwf from game without intimidation
GWFs want back their mod2 days..."too much piercing damage" "we lost 30% of our hp before we go unstop"
Ok guys i aggree.Since you hit so soft you need your aleady excellent defence and your absurd high deflect(whom you gain through feats and not gear-same as some feats of Tr-yet you bash the TRs) to be raised.
An example of how soft you hit :
....... deals 841 (1037) Physical Damage to you with Fey Thistle.
[Combat (Self)] ..... is out of range.
[Combat (Self)] Your Health Regen gives 776 (1408) Hit Points to you.
[Combat (Self)] ..... deals 22 (110) Physical Damage to you with Deep Gash.
[Combat (Self)] Your Iceforge Healing Elixer gives 767 Hit Points to you.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! ...... deals 26123 (39768) Physical Damage to you with Intimidation.
[Combat (Self)] ...... deals 44 (110) Physical Damage to you with Deep Gash.
[Combat (Self)] Your Iceforge Healing Elixer gives 767 Hit Points to you.
[Combat (Self)] ........ Barkshield Armor absorbs 3 (1) damage from your Anvil of Doom.
[Combat (Self)] Your Anvil of Doom deals 1981 (5951) Physical Damage to .......
[Combat (Self)] ...... Barkshield Armor absorbs 4 (1) damage from your Bloodfire.
[Combat (Self)] Your Bloodfire deals 314 (1104) Fire Damage to ........
[Combat (Self)] Your Guard absorbs 5891 damage from ........ Intimidation.
[Combat (Self)] Your Guard absorbs 18 damage from ....... Deep Gash.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! ........ deals 1473 (40382) Physical Damage to you with Intimidation.
[Combat (Self)] ....... deals 4 (111) Physical Damage to you with Deep Gash.
But why only to ask your mod2 unstop to return?Deep gash must return too.All classes have dots GWFs must gain back their op DoT.And T1 pvp set must return to its old form ignoring healing depression.Cause you know ,GWf are barbarians!!!Why a barbarian must comply to civilized rules?And roar.Yes Roar must return to what it was.
Seriously now.Sorry to troll but you got some things in exchange for the rightfull god-mode unstop nerf.You want your old unstop back?
No more CC resist sprint for you,no intimidation either.And destroyer capstone to 25 stacks.You cannot have the whole pie and the dog well fed.High geared GWFs are doing supreme in pvp.
Your problem is the ranged dots and the ranged nukes from CWs,as also piercing damage.Instead of waking up bad memories where you trolled in domination entired teams -same as much TRs do now,with lower gs-ask for rightfull and reasonable things.
Remove intimidation altogether and ask for hard hitting encounters for both the destro and the sent and all we will support you.But not a form of an old god-mode unstop back.
Not mod2 GWF with modern glyphs and sets!
PS:i know some guys will accuse me of being liar cause in the log i posted intimidatrion proced twice in less that 6 secs.I am not, is the second time happening this ,happened 3 -4 months ago again, and this time i kept the log.Dwarven valley open pvp ,GWf had cockatrice.I do not have explanation either.
You shouldn't compare GWF intimidation in OWPvP. It's OP beyond measures due to how much power can one stack from companion bonuses and ioun stone. It must be 3k power or so, I reckon. So take pvp GWF with 12k power, put 3k more and you get a beast capable of 1 shotting scrubs and 2 shotting ppl geared for pvp.
But even then you should take note that you were simply unlucky to get 2 non-deflected crits in a row. A PvP GWF won't possibly have more than 50% crit, even that is stretching it a bit. Unless they come at you with PvE gear, in that case you got no excuse.
And like burkaanc already stated, GWF is awful at lower power stat. Ever seen the damage intimidation does from a GWF with 5k power? If you crit for 7-8k with that, you're **** lucky.
Nevertheless, intimidation has to be based on weapon damage and not an ever increasing power stat. That's a fact. However, GWF needs a good revamp as well. When a destroyer gets like +100% damage from destroyer feat and capstone and is still the last on the paingiver + provide no utility to the group whatsoever... You know something is definitely wrong with their base damage. At wills hitting for 1-1.1k damage with 9k power, +10% at will damage from feat and legendary artifact weapon is just one example of that.
and i still dont like the gwf to be overbuffed.
i think other classes DPS should be tonned down.
based on max power of each class they should have a limit on their damage.
an 8k power on a TR on a sabotuer (without first strike) = 1 shot shocking execution
an 9.5k power on a CW he deals alot of damage from auto proccing and with his iceknife he can crit over 80k damage unmitigated. so around 34k crit they still do.
so i think this kind of damage should be tonned down if a dev take a look at how much a class can stack power, there should be a limit on the damage they do. right now the gwf and the GF are the most balanced classes, a revamp will make it worse, just small tweaks will make the class better and give some utility.
GWF mark doesn't apply combat advantage. Only GF's Tab mark does.
i think it does...
try to test it out with vicious advantage from instigator paragon.
i 've tested it out and i critted more often when my enemies were marked.
i think it does...
try to test it out with vicious advantage from instigator paragon.
i 've tested it out and i critted more often when my enemies were marked.
Combat Advantage doesn't affect crit rate...
But nvm, seems like it does give CA. Earlier when I was alculating intimidation damage the it didn't add up even with CA in the equation.
Comments
There is 1 possibility yet. Entangling is pure stun- dps is just funny small, maby there is a reason :P
Wouldn't it be simpler to just lobby for a TR nerf?
This isnt the only issue.
If a CW targets the GWF first, DPS him down to say 60% HP. He pops unstoppable. The GWF has to close the gap between himself and the CW within 4-5 seconds.
The GWF can use sprint to close the gap and be helpless once unstoppable wears off, or he can run without it and most likely never catch the CW.
Even if he uses sprint, Sprints duration/recharge wont even allow him to keep up with more than 3 "blinks" from a CW. Most of which can easily do 4-5 in a row.
In the past this type of thing was less an issue because the GWF would only have to lose much less HP.
When they swapped determination to HP based rather than damage/control based it make ALL GWFs insanely less tanky.
Honestly where the Sentinel GWF is right now, is around what a Destroyer SHOULD be at.
Oh and its actually not even SE thats a big issue. Lashing Blade + Shadow of Demise is insanely strong too. YOu can crit a GWF easily for 20-30K Lashing without a Vorpal. If you use Bilethorn your SoD actualyl procs 2x.
Ive been 1 shot (technically 2 shot) by a TR who Lashing Blades me, then SoD procs 2-3 seconds after and the combination is 40-50k damage.
Since SoD is piercing damage, makes no difference how much DR I have.
Also runs into the same issue above, even if it is effected by DR, how is the GWf to catch a TR? His dodges "outpace" sprint. Dodge makes you immune to damage and CC. GWFs sprint is only CC Immune.
combined with ITC+Bloodbath, you really cant do much.
Can the GWF 2 shot a TR? Sure you can, if you get the jump and you get 1 of 2 encounters to crit (outside ITC).
Ive posted before about damage reductions for GWFs and am not opposed to that. But what is silly is how a Sentinel (Tank Spec) is one of the squishiest characters in the game.
At full stamina, a CW can only do 2-3 blinks in a row. Did you hit them with tons and tons of dots to proc their severe reaction?
Noone is really stacking power "instead" of anything. I have radiant 10s in all my defensive slots. The only way I could get more HP is to go with a Con Belt over a Dex/STR belt. Which would give me like 3k more HP.
Thats not gonna make any difference especially since determination is based upon HP % lost, that means I would have to lose MORE HP to gain unstoppable.
I know an intimidation Spec with about 8k Power and around 50k HP fully Potted up. Which is significantly more. But again you run into more issues as now you are slightly more tanky but you lost ALOT of damage potential and you still run into the same issues as before. Oh and you also give up 4% tenacity (rings set) to get this. Which means your not really THAT Much better off.
You cant catch anyone to kill anyone with decent skill. Can you PUG stomp? All day long.
Can you kill an equal GS player? Not unless you get the jump and lucky crits. Regardless of how Tanky you build, someone gets the jump on you, your dead.
Again, Sentinel is THE tank spec... Going FULL defensive makes it worse because now your offensive to defensive "ratio" is garbage. You cant kill anything and survive onyl a few seconds longer
Oh and The "same" way would have been leaving it the same as it has always been. Im not sure when it was changed but you used to have unstopabble much more available.
Just confirmed its 4 in a row. Also with Severe reaction you dont need to hit them "tons" for this to work.
Id take 4 "dodges" over a 4-5 second sprint anyday. Not only can you not catch the CWs dodges but your also not immune to damage during sprint like you are with dodge.
I have nothing against CWs, that was merely on the top of my head from today's game. The small window I had to catch him (during unstoppable) he outblinked my sprint and then I was IceKnifed for the remainder of HP the second I got out of unstoppable. Didnt even stand a chance at 40k HP and 25% tenacity.
If you have the Sharandar boon you can do 4 in a row.
I agree with you on the burst issue. Thats a separate thing. Why this entire thread came about was since I took a break from my GWF module 4 and beginning of 5 I never played when they changed intimidation gain.
It USED to be based on damage and not HP lost. I was an advocate for HP lost being what its measured by but not this severe. While I was farming boons I was destroyer and once I farmed most of the ARtifact equipment and boons (will finally have MH tomorrow and now working on mod 5 boons) did I swap over to Sent and start doing intimidation PVP.
This is when I noticed how un-believable squishy I was compared to even the beginning of module 4 on my GWF before I stopped. My Mod 3 Destroyer was more tanky than my Sent is today (yes mod 3 GWF was OP) but its just silly at HOW much determination was nerfed.
AS stated before, determination gain used to be around 12% HP lost as a sent for 4 seconds of unstoppable. Now its liek 25%. Literally HALF as effective.
This is why so many GWFs are really forced into playing the uber DPS build. Cause even when you build tanky you still cant 1v1 any class. So you turn into a node clearer glass canon.
Great Perspective Tyrion!
Correction:
In our test, my EF did not allow you to build determination since it did zero damage due to your barkshield.
If EF had done damage to you, I believe you would have built determination from it.
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I can sum that up for you quickly.
"So first thing you need to do is break out your credit card..."
Haha, guess your right. My own GWF is around 22k GS in a Dom and I have spent money on NVW. Ol' Sabes is 25 and I've seen one person at almost 26 in a Dom.. Insane numbers. So its not just paying, its actually overpaying that gets you topside.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Your join date is Nov 2012. That means you played in open beta before Cryptic nerfed the profitablity in PVE. I would've figured you were in position to actually have BIS gear without having to open your wallet like some players have. Of course, that would still entail you spending quite a bit of time farming Castle Never.
1) Remove Intimidation completely from the game, A Swing around your head and a Scream hitting harder than a Battle Strike that can slice a target in two? Okay...
2) If we're talking about Module 2 Determination/Unstoppable, then CC immunity sprint has to go.
Your call.
One of the many Control Wizards that misses Shard Of The Endless Avalanche. RIP Shard (Beta-Mod3)
That is not true entirely.
Unstoppable got a double nerf of 40% in dr and around 100% in determination gain. It is 40% for a full bar. When people report otherwise they are usually non-gwf players and what they see is a half bar unstoppable.
Sprint buff covers the cc immunity to some degree making it more 'proactive', but as tyrion explained, it's not instant, it's not a proper dodge so you need to be already sprinting to be immune to cc, which leads to increased stamina usage and more difficulty in using it to dodge cc. Also, it does not cover the survivability issue for 2 reasons:
- first, sprint is our gap closer. It was enough to colse gaps and follow the enemy movements. Got increased by 40% which means a couple of seconds more of sprint for defensive purposes. It's not responsive enough, lacks proper immunity frames and lacks stamina regen and total stamina to fill the double role of gap closer and defensive tool, where other classes dodges are full defense and gap closing is achieved in other ways (encounters with auto-gap closing) or not needed (ranged classes/ encounters).
- second, massive introduction of piercing damage makes dr as useful to survive as a snowboard in the middle of Sahara desert.
- third: other classes got all massive DPS boosts
- fourth: a new heavy DPS ranged class was introduced.
Current gwf running on mid gets incinerated in seconds even when tank spec.
The double nerf brought the class in line with mod3 other classes. Then other classes got buffed. Pretty much all the players i tested with on preview during the mod3-->mod4 transition agreed that a double nerf was way too much.
People just talked about 'balance' but in the end when they get the chance, all they want is revenge and payback. Players got a thrauma from mod3 destro and just wanted gwf to get back to pre- mod 1 when the class was powerless.
In fact, all comments when CW, HR, TR got opness was : it's our turn. No more 'we need balance'.
Reminds me of the TR that during early mod2 complained (righteusly) about TR-fls combo being op. And then said 'yeah, cause in module 1 i could kite gwfs forever and kill them'. Which was his idea of 'balance'.
So a double nerf on unstoppable class mechanic, changed into an unreliable and underpowered 'buff' to sprint, mixed with buffs to other classes is now 'balance'.
And inti sentinel is the only really viable pvp build exactly cause unstoppable got such nerfs (HD nerf temp hp, nerf det gain, nerf dr) that it is now useless to survive unless you get sentinel capstone and even so, it does not make gwf that survivable since sentinels still get burn fast vs equally geared players.. Adds nothing where other classes have 4th encounter, double power bar, stealth and divine mode+empowered.
Vs 8 seconds of cc immunity and useless dr for 8 seconds kitable after losing 40% of you hp.
Yeah, balanced.
QQ Cos+Shadowy Opportunity.
I've played on and off and the only grind I can bring myself to do is for the campaigns. And even that is too much. Also nothing is free in this world, sept your life, you get that for free and and you can freely go and jump off a roof if ya want. Neverwinter is not a benevolent project created by a non-profit organization for the sole purpose of bringing 'fun' to people who like games. Neverwinter is a business, primary purpose is making money, secondary is being fun. In order to keep this game up and running somebody has to pay. If I can substitute the awful grind with money I do it. Just imagine you had to go and buy this game and pay a sub. That can amount for a good sum if we count all the time one has spent with the game. I work a full-time job, got a ton of hobbies outside gaming so this is how I roll
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Ok guys i aggree.Since you hit so soft you need your aleady excellent defence and your absurd high deflect(whom you gain through feats and not gear-same as some feats of Tr-yet you bash the TRs) to be raised.
An example of how soft you hit :
....... deals 841 (1037) Physical Damage to you with Fey Thistle.
[Combat (Self)] ..... is out of range.
[Combat (Self)] Your Health Regen gives 776 (1408) Hit Points to you.
[Combat (Self)] ..... deals 22 (110) Physical Damage to you with Deep Gash.
[Combat (Self)] Your Iceforge Healing Elixer gives 767 Hit Points to you.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! ...... deals 26123 (39768) Physical Damage to you with Intimidation.
[Combat (Self)] ...... deals 44 (110) Physical Damage to you with Deep Gash.
[Combat (Self)] Your Iceforge Healing Elixer gives 767 Hit Points to you.
[Combat (Self)] ........ Barkshield Armor absorbs 3 (1) damage from your Anvil of Doom.
[Combat (Self)] Your Anvil of Doom deals 1981 (5951) Physical Damage to .......
[Combat (Self)] ...... Barkshield Armor absorbs 4 (1) damage from your Bloodfire.
[Combat (Self)] Your Bloodfire deals 314 (1104) Fire Damage to ........
[Combat (Self)] Your Guard absorbs 5891 damage from ........ Intimidation.
[Combat (Self)] Your Guard absorbs 18 damage from ....... Deep Gash.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! ........ deals 1473 (40382) Physical Damage to you with Intimidation.
[Combat (Self)] ....... deals 4 (111) Physical Damage to you with Deep Gash.
But why only to ask your mod2 unstop to return?Deep gash must return too.All classes have dots GWFs must gain back their op DoT.And T1 pvp set must return to its old form ignoring healing depression.Cause you know ,GWf are barbarians!!!Why a barbarian must comply to civilized rules?And roar.Yes Roar must return to what it was.
Seriously now.Sorry to troll but you got some things in exchange for the rightfull god-mode unstop nerf.You want your old unstop back?
No more CC resist sprint for you,no intimidation either.And destroyer capstone to 25 stacks.You cannot have the whole pie and the dog well fed.High geared GWFs are doing supreme in pvp.
Your problem is the ranged dots and the ranged nukes from CWs,as also piercing damage.Instead of waking up bad memories where you trolled in domination entired teams -same as much TRs do now,with lower gs-ask for rightfull and reasonable things.
Remove intimidation altogether and ask for hard hitting encounters for both the destro and the sent and all we will support you.But not a form of an old god-mode unstop back.
Not mod2 GWF with modern glyphs and sets!
PS:i know some guys will accuse me of being liar cause in the log i posted intimidatrion proced twice in less that 6 secs.I am not, is the second time happening this ,happened 3 -4 months ago again, and this time i kept the log.Dwarven valley open pvp ,GWf had cockatrice.I do not have explanation either.
intimidation has stupid design, its a feat that gives 2 gwf abilities damage from power(daring and come and get it), and power further increases damage, there are a ton of suggestions how to improve it but nobody cares
but the rest of gwf skills are so F$HAMSTER!#G bad that they may as well remove gwf from game without intimidation
You shouldn't compare GWF intimidation in OWPvP. It's OP beyond measures due to how much power can one stack from companion bonuses and ioun stone. It must be 3k power or so, I reckon. So take pvp GWF with 12k power, put 3k more and you get a beast capable of 1 shotting scrubs and 2 shotting ppl geared for pvp.
But even then you should take note that you were simply unlucky to get 2 non-deflected crits in a row. A PvP GWF won't possibly have more than 50% crit, even that is stretching it a bit. Unless they come at you with PvE gear, in that case you got no excuse.
And like burkaanc already stated, GWF is awful at lower power stat. Ever seen the damage intimidation does from a GWF with 5k power? If you crit for 7-8k with that, you're **** lucky.
Nevertheless, intimidation has to be based on weapon damage and not an ever increasing power stat. That's a fact. However, GWF needs a good revamp as well. When a destroyer gets like +100% damage from destroyer feat and capstone and is still the last on the paingiver + provide no utility to the group whatsoever... You know something is definitely wrong with their base damage. At wills hitting for 1-1.1k damage with 9k power, +10% at will damage from feat and legendary artifact weapon is just one example of that.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?815651-Gwf-feedback
and i still dont like the gwf to be overbuffed.
i think other classes DPS should be tonned down.
based on max power of each class they should have a limit on their damage.
an 8k power on a TR on a sabotuer (without first strike) = 1 shot shocking execution
an 9.5k power on a CW he deals alot of damage from auto proccing and with his iceknife he can crit over 80k damage unmitigated. so around 34k crit they still do.
so i think this kind of damage should be tonned down if a dev take a look at how much a class can stack power, there should be a limit on the damage they do. right now the gwf and the GF are the most balanced classes, a revamp will make it worse, just small tweaks will make the class better and give some utility.
GWF mark doesn't apply combat advantage. Only GF's Tab mark does.
i think it does...
try to test it out with vicious advantage from instigator paragon.
i 've tested it out and i critted more often when my enemies were marked.
Combat Advantage doesn't affect crit rate...
But nvm, seems like it does give CA. Earlier when I was alculating intimidation damage the it didn't add up even with CA in the equation.
vicious advantage says CBA grants you 5% crit chance.
k?