That CW or was it a TR? must had very little hp left and shield removed already, NOBODY lands any 17K GC on a CW with full hp or maxed shield.
But TR vs GWF is a joke atm, in a 1on1 a GWF will never win against an equal geard/skilled TR. 100% critchance from stealth needs to be removed ASAP from PVP. Let the 100% in PVE be untouched.
Aimed strike does like half of aimed shot. just sayinh
Aimed shot? sitting duck much? not to mention the time you waste when interrupted. Might work for some, but it's kinda like a cheap shot. It cannot compare to how dynamic a TR is.
This is utter nonsense, I'm playing against TR's with 800 protection and 5k attack
I hope it gets better at level 60.
Someone should really make a capture of 2 TR's fighting lol
Depends what spec you are. Aimed Strike for Combat hits for more due to the sheer piercing damage that can proc from it.
1) Bloodbath on live is too strong. Ask anyone besides a TR.
2)I never proposed the idea of stealth reveal, I don't particularly like it, I simply stated what its effects are on the preview shard.
3)If you are hitting for 6k then you may be specced in a way that does less damage, you don't state your build here or your stats so it's like saying that because you don't hit that hard, noone does.
4)I am speaking from BIS down to 10k beginners. The TR is obviously too strong this mod as anyone, and I mean anyone playing any class other than TR as their main will tell you. My friends and guildees who main TR's state they are too strong. I am not here advocating a class nerf, I'm advocating balance and allowing other classes the opportunity to be able to withstand the TR at the very least 1v2 and if all is right the potential to kill them 1v1. Now there are other factors at play as well, gear varies, skill level varies. I'm speaking from an "across the board" stance here. That said, generally speaking, imho, TR's need a decrease in their crit chance from stealth so they aren't guaranteed to do max damage with every hit from stealth. All other class have to manage crit chance, TR's simply should not be immune to this limitation either.
Thanks for your time and conideration.
You sir, are so right IMO.
From someone playing a SW main I can guarantee you there's an insane gap between the SW and TR classes(CW too, but not as much). Removing the auto crit from stealth would remove half the problem. And it doesn't make sense that a single bloodbath use can leave opponents near death or already dead with a single use all the while being completely immune to all damage. I'm cool with either, but not both. And I don't like rogues one hitting my 40k hp bulky deflock with SE.
Oh you got defence? np, I got SE. Go back to spawn silly SW
I am the monk, martial skill transcends the battlefield
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
u realy are desperate lol by now i bet u thinking i never should have made this post
but anyway
since you admited that u cant counter tr vs tr
it doesnt prove tr is broken
just that you play bad
me on the other hand love to see trs in enemy team and its most fun matches for me
only thing i hated was bb perma daily and that was fixed
f2pma, I'm going to assume that english isn't your native language, which is fine, I appreciate all of my international friends who play the game. But you keep coming back to my posts and proving my points with everything you say. I'm not sure if you're actually on my side or if your grasp of the english language is just that bad.
Anyway, just so we understand each other, I'm quite happy I made this post. I feel addressing balancing issues is important. I stated that you can only place a TR against a TR because all other classes will die to a TR 1v1 (assuming equal skill or gear... or even if the TR is undergeared, or underskilled often).
What this means is that if your team doesn't have a TR and the other team does, you have essentially lost the match, Or if your TR is not as good as the other TR you have lost the match, or if you have less TR's than the other team you have lost the match.
If every match is dependent on TR's alone, the TR needs to be fixed. All you continuously do is try to talk about my skill (or in your opinion, lack thereof) as a TR all the while reiterating my points for me. Because of this I would encourage you to continue to post more. I appreciate having a TR actually spell out what is wrong with their class in the form of an attempted forum troll. It makes my job easier.
Thanks for your reply.
On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"
f2pma, I'm going to assume that english isn't your native language, which is fine, I appreciate all of my international friends who play the game. But you keep coming back to my posts and proving my points with everything you say. I'm not sure if you're actually on my side or if your grasp of the english language is just that bad.
Anyway, just so we understand each other, I'm quite happy I made this post. I feel addressing balancing issues is important. I stated that you can only place a TR against a TR because all other classes will die to a TR 1v1 (assuming equal skill or gear... or even if the TR is undergeared, or underskilled often).
What this means is that if your team doesn't have a TR and the other team does, you have essentially lost the match, Or if your TR is not as good as the other TR you have lost the match, or if you have less TR's than the other team you have lost the match.
If every match is dependent on TR's alone, the TR needs to be fixed. All you continuously do is try to talk about my skill (or in your opinion, lack thereof) as a TR all the while reiterating my points for me. Because of this I would encourage you to continue to post more. I appreciate having a TR actually spell out what is wrong with their class in the form of an attempted forum troll. It makes my job easier.
Thanks for your reply.
Well to be honest i have to agree with f2pma about skill level of yours. But thats not why i am responding.
The vast majority of Tr players now are playing brainless saboteur specs, not even well enough. This is the cheapest, easiest and laziest way to represent any values tr possess in pvp. There is nothing galant about it and will not be. This is because how saboteur is designed. Back in mod 3 and 4 i remeber only a few dared playing semiperma or full combat. Better yet i think beside me, the only LordRust played a MI scoundrel combat spec.
Now to the point. People do not enter pvp with proper gear where black ice set is Free after 35 days. They do not have 35+k hp and their playing skills are far from acceptable. Then after being <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> by a tr from page 10 of lboard or lower they come here and cry.
No i do not think you have to be a tr to beat a tr. Many good pvp players from essence and other guilds had proven that. The exception to that is the fact that low skill exe or sab players are running oneshot or semidazeme cheap compositions which would die if the majority of players would ever care about dressing properly for pvp and the piercing aspect of tr attacks would respect defenses (tenacity at least).
And if you are starting posts like that better look in the mirror first. You not only play the cheapest and lamest tr spec but also deviate the community feel about the whole class by doing so. No the autocrit feature should not be removed, but the piercing damage should be changed and should respect tenacity at least. To remove the crit you would have to give something back without further nerfing tr to oblivion especialy in pve. Prolonging stealth builds should utilize lower damage potential due to the sheer advantage of a longer stealth. This is quite oposite now.
Well to be honest i have to agree with f2pma about skill level of yours. But thats not why i am responding.
The vast majority of Tr players now are playing brainless saboteur specs, not even well enough. This is the cheapest, easiest and laziest way to represent any values tr possess in pvp. There is nothing galant about it and will not be. This is because how saboteur is designed. Back in mod 3 and 4 i remeber only a few dared playing semiperma or full combat. Better yet i think beside me, the only LordRust played a MI scoundrel combat spec.
Now to the point. People do not enter pvp with proper gear where black ice set is Free after 35 days. They do not have 35+k hp and their playing skills are far from acceptable. Then after being <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> by a tr from page 10 of lboard or lower they come here and cry.
No i do not think you have to be a tr to beat a tr. Many good pvp players from essence and other guilds had proven that. The exception to that is the fact that low skill exe or sab players are running oneshot or semidazeme cheap compositions which would die if the majority of players would ever care about dressing properly for pvp and the piercing aspect of tr attacks would respect defenses (tenacity at least).
And if you are starting posts like that better look in the mirror first. You not only play the cheapest and lamest tr spec but also deviate the community feel about the whole class by doing so. No the autocrit feature should not be removed, but the piercing damage should be changed and should respect tenacity at least. To remove the crit you would have to give something back without further nerfing tr to oblivion especialy in pve. Prolonging stealth builds should utilize lower damage potential due to the sheer advantage of a longer stealth. This is quite oposite now.
As always, your impression of my skill level is, entirely, your opinion and you are welcome to it. Now for the rest of your post, it meanders so much that I'm not sure what to make of it. So all saboteurs are playing the "cheapest and lamest tr spec"? And any player who dies to either executioners or saboteurs aren't "dressing properly for PVP"?
I'm sorry but I can't even begin to properly address this commentary. It's not very descriptive, nor is any of it correct. I appreciate alternative views to mine but they at least need to contain a shred of useful information. That said, perhaps if you clarified a bit and actually flushed out some of your ideas they would make more sense or contain any validity at all.
As for 1v1ing TR's as another class I would challenge any end game player, non TR, to 1v1 Sicarius, Brollax, Dark Angel, or N0cturnal for example, and then show me footage that they can beat them 1v1 on a semi consistant basis, heck I'll be impressed if they luck into it once. If you show me proof of this in mod 5 I will rethink my initial post, however when you realize this is impossible I would challenge you to rethink yours.
Now one thing I think I did glean is the PVE vs PVP thing. As far as I'm concerned PVE TR's can have 100% crit uptime and no stealth reveal, heck I don't care if they have stealth depletion and SE is AOE against mobs to be quite frank with you. This is only PVP related.
Thanks for your reply.
On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"
this post is a fail and a joke since the start
not a single serious pvp player agree with it
not even one
even forum trolls avoid it
90% of the post are you and me .....
because i always want the last word lol.
for the last time
triple dip nerf to tr is out of the question
and btw no one has to put their view of the tr
its enough they dont like yours
this post is a fail and a joke since the start
not a single serious pvp player agree with it
not even one
triple dip nerf to tr is out of the question
I think the serious PVP players who actually posted that they do agree might take issue with that. But apparently only TR's are serious PVP players in your eyes, which, again only shows plainly your take on this and further proves my point.
Thanks for your replies, I greatly appreciate you giving credence to my arguments!
On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"
As always, your impression of my skill level is, entirely, your opinion and you are welcome to it. Now for the rest of your post, it meanders so much that I'm not sure what to make of it. So all saboteurs are playing the "cheapest and lamest tr spec"? And any player who dies to either executioners or saboteurs aren't "dressing properly for PVP"?
I'm sorry but I can't even begin to properly address this commentary. It's not very descriptive, nor is any of it correct. I appreciate alternative views to mine but they at least need to contain a shred of useful information. That said, perhaps if you clarified a bit and actually flushed out some of your ideas they would make more sense or contain any validity at all.
As for 1v1ing TR's as another class I would challenge any end game player, non TR, to 1v1 Sicarius, Brollax, Dark Angel, or N0cturnal for example, and then show me footage that they can beat them 1v1 on a semi consistant basis, heck I'll be impressed if they luck into it once. If you show me proof of this in mod 5 I will rethink my initial post, however when you realize this is impossible I would challenge you to rethink yours.
Now one thing I think I did glean is the PVE vs PVP thing. As far as I'm concerned PVE TR's can have 100% crit uptime and no stealth reveal, heck I don't care if they have stealth depletion and SE is AOE against mobs to be quite frank with you. This is only PVP related.
Thanks for your reply.
every mod had players from same class no one can beat
1 2 3 4 5
thats for devs to decide, and its not like they havent done it before, like with gwf for example
gwf was op for way more then a year
i just wish they threat tr the same as gwf
so even a 3 year old can play geared gwf vs 5 pugs
btw thats why i stop playing gwf
gwf was op for way more then a year
i just wish they threat tr the same as gwf
so even a 3 year old can play geared gwf vs 5 pugs
btw thats why i stop playing gwf
So all GWFs are playing an easy mode class, is that what I'm getting here f2pma? This gets better and better. So you stop playing GWF and now you play an umm underpowered TR, is that it? This is really good stuff, keep it coming man.
Thanks for your reply.
On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"
Players of equal gear/enchants, who know how to fight, me beat me half the time. I'm a Whisper/Scoundrel. 20k GS. Saboteurs are a whole different story because of 100% crit and piercing damage.
This sums it up. Those who really know how to PvP can easily learn to defeat a TR. The proof lies above.
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!" pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all." looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
So all GWFs are playing an easy mode class, is that what I'm getting here f2pma? This gets better and better. So you stop playing GWF and now you play an umm underpowered TR, is that it? This is really good stuff, keep it coming man.
Thanks for your reply.
there wasnt a single tr who could beat my rank 7 gwf mod 2,3
yeah it was easy more for so long
Ok i see you have problems with reading, so let me help you and buletpoint two topics.
Topic one. How Tr image is deviated by people like you running lazy build only because its "top notch" now:
a) sub and exe currently is beneficial for players with below average skill. One shot and permastealth are a primary picks for less experienced now. And let me paraphrase Dinter on that in the eve of mod 5: "im going to play a scoundrel because thats the only build that requires skills in mod 5" because of the design of piercing damage, the least suposed spec (saboteur) is having arguably the highest single target burst in the game. This is fine for pve but since the main loadout for pvp does have all powers supported by SO combined with 100% crit makes it an overkill by small margin (again skill is what makes the largest difference). Now if you deviate the spec itself not the whole tr (change piercing damage on exe and sab instead of nerfing 100% crit) you might get the solution right. Just make it subject to defense and tenacity and problem solved. No more tremendous dps on pvp while stil 100% functional on pve with 24% armor penetration on character.
C) change first strike to hard blows or something and change its 60% damage bonus to a fixed 10-25% for fixed time after starting combat (further calculations needed).
Vouala now tou had got rid of borh oneshot and permadps plus a problematic SE. Sab and exe hits hard on pvp but rarely 1shots anyone, especialy a tank.
D) now you can proceed to change to other fotm spec from another class and this time play it properly.
Now a second topic about pvp awareness and real skills vs useless Gs figures
A) most people do not play with headphones on. Thats a major mistale against a competent TR. if you are going into pvp be aware that you might be spawncamped by better skilled/geared or op enemy. This is a gwneral one for every mmo since in like 15 years i havent seen even one purely balanced game with pvp. Sory. There will always be someone who with gear/money/time and/or skills will outperform you. If your not ready for that i suggest going back to tetris.
C) pvp means adapting. Gear from the last season/mod might not be best for the meta right now. Get artifacts to counter specific builds, swap skills.
D) practice or be never good at ot and accept your fate. If u want to play casual pvp i suggest you go for fps no rpg type of pvp. If you cant progress trough the ranks you are the only one responsible for that. That is why not everyone becomea a page 1 player.
E) gs means little if you cant build the proper character for pvp. I myself am not fond at that but currently IMO Tr 14k might equal gwf 18k because of the way we are stacking abilities. Trs had always been lower on gs due to mechanical reasons. That is why when you see 19k tr expect the same performance as your 21-22 gwf would have. And above all. Dont bring gs figures to the discussion because of stat distributions are handled.
Now i could go on and on but meat shields (sory for that) are not going to read it anyway. Now we were left with two kinds of people:
A) those who know how to play this class properly
B)those who think they know.
The later should not have a voice in the conversation for obvious reasons.
Now ask yourselves which ones are you.
Edit. Hard to format it from the phone so you have to deal with it)
gwf was op for way more then a year
i just wish they threat tr the same as gwf
so even a 3 year old can play geared gwf vs 5 pugs
btw thats why i stop playing gwf
and even then gwf took more skill to kill ppl than TR now
and gwf was op for 2 mods - 2 and 3, from december 5th 2013 til mod 4 when class got completely destroyed on august 14 2014 not really a year on earth, before that gwf was trash
Ok i see you have problems with reading, so let me help you and buletpoinyt two topics.
I don't have problems reading, but you try reading someone who speaks your language as a second language, their ability to convey meanings is sometimes lost. This is why I asked you to clarify, let's see if you did that.
Topic one. How Tr image is deviated by people like you running lazy build only because its "top noth" now:
a) sub and exe currently is beneficial for players with below average skill. One shot and permastealth are a primary picks for less experienced now. And let me paraphrase Dinter on that in the eve of mod 5: "im going to play a scoundrel because thats the only build that requires skills in mod 5"
So you have again insulted all players who are Saboteur like Sicarius, Dark Angel, Brollax, Nocturnal... etc? Interesting. These are very experienced players I think the vast majority of the PVP community would disagree with your premise.
because of the design of piercing damage, the least suposed spec (saboteur) is having arguably the highest single target burst in the game. This is fine for pve but since the main loadout for pvp does have all powers supported by SO combined with 100% crit makes it an overki by small margin. Now if you deviate the spec itself not the whole tr (change piercing damage on exe and sab instead of nerfing 100% crit) you might get the solution right. Just make it subject to defense and tenacity and problem solved. No more tremendous dps on pvp while stil 100% functional on pve with 24% armor penetration on character.
Piercing damage is high damage primarily because, like the HR of last mod, it ignores DR. Ignoring DR is always a bad idea IMHO, why should people even bother with Defensive stats if this is the case? If, as you said "combined with 100% crit makes it an overkill by small margin" you are reiterating my point. I do think that everything should respect DR. This is another potential fix for the problem. They could also make SE respect DR. I'm advocating for a decrease in overall DPS for TRs (most especially MI's) related to the 2 problems you just reiterated for me. I'd be amenable to anything that aids in that cause. No TR should be able to one shot with a daily, have consistently extremely high dps related to DR ignoring and 100% crit chance uptime. You are still agreeing with me here, thank you. You keep referring to PVE, this is not a PVE discussion as I stated before. Post PVE suggestions in your own forum post please because they don't further the discussion here, thanks.
C) change first strike to hard blows or something and change its 60% damage bonus to a fixed 10-25% for fixed time after starting combat (further calculations needed).
Vouala now tou had got rid of borh oneshot and permadps plus a problematic SE. Sab and exe hits hard on pvp but rarely 1shots anyone, especialy a tank.
If you think Sab, without the use of firststrike, don't 1 shot then you don't play PVP sir, or you are poorly specced or don't understand other specs, or you are intentionally dealing misinforamtion. Whichever of the 3 is the case it makes your argument here irrelevant. I have hours, HOURS of footage detailing single shot SE's after the recent patch that, umm, nerfed it.
D) now you can proceed to change to other fotm spec from another class and this time play it properly.
So the only proper spec for a TR is scoundrel? You really are stretching your credibility here, is this a troll? am I on like candid forum camera or something?
Now a second topic about pvp awareness and real skills vs useless Gs figures
A) most people do not play with headphones on. Thats a major mistale against a competent TR.
Most end game players, myself included, do wear headphones. However this should not be a necessity to purchase in addition to the game in order to properly play. If that's the case it should state it in the game requirements.
if you are going into pvp be aware that you might be spawncamped by better skilled/geared or op enemy. This is a gwneral one for every mmo since in like 15 years i havent seen even one purely balanced game with pvp. Sory. There will always be someone who with gear/money/time and/or skills will outperform you. If your not ready for that i suggest going back to tetris.
In terms of having better gear this is true. However the problem is that even undergeared TR's right now are still one shotting said heavily geared, heavily skilled players because of feats and abilities (like DR ignoring abilites and 100%crit) are unbalancing PVP.
C) pvp means adapting. Gear from the last season/mod might not be best for the meta right now. Get artifacts to counter specific builds, swap skills.
I continue to read and hear the word "adapt" from TR's, I have to say I love this. It just continues to show how TRs want everyone else to "adapt" to their undodgeable, unmittagateable, tenacity ignoring abilites while unwilling to adapt to potential changes that may come to their class. To quote Inigo Montoyez "you keep using that word..."
D) practice or be never good at ot and accept your fate. If u want to play casual pvp i suggest you go for fps no rpg type of pvp. If you cant progress trough the ranks you are the only one responsible for that. That is why not everyone becomea a page 1 player.
The leaderboard is another discussion altogether, and I can guarantee that being page 1 isn't the goal of every PVPer, most experienced PVPers recognize the LB for what it is. Accepting the fate that is delivered by OP classes/encounters/feats/dailies is what I must do, but I can also come here and give viable feedback to the devs for said issues related to balancing and that is what I'm doing.
Now i could go on and on but meat shields (sory for that) are not going to read it anyway. Now we were left with two kinds of people:
I can only assume that by "meat shields" you are referring to all "tanks" or tank hybrids in which case you are basically slapping at least 2/6ths of the gaming community in the face with your commentary. I always appreciate unbiased agendas like the one you are clearly forwarding.
A) those who know how to play this class properly
B)those who think they know.
If only all TR's would heed your sage advice, perhaps they could learn to play their class properly. f2pma you listening? Nanners? You guys need to listen to this guy. You aren't playing your class right apparently. Apparently you only think you know. Better start following this fella's posts if you want to be pro.
Thanks, I mean seriously, thank you so much for your post!
On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"
If you ask me, tenacity should be made meaningful again, all attacks should do way less damage on players.
I play WoW and in PVP even high geared players don't oneshot my lowly geared rogue.
I think this alone would give a much better sense of balance to PVP.
If you ask me, tenacity should be made meaningful again, all attacks should do way less damage on players.
I play WoW and in PVP even high geared players don't oneshot my lowly geared rogue.
I think this alone would give a much better sense of balance to PVP.
+1 To this. One shots should not exist.
On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"
WK don't have SE bro. Have you been reading any of this forum or did you show up late to the party?
Thanks for your reply
Yes, the build/type of TR does count. I was just trying to make a point that some TRs can easily be killed - some people here seem to think they are all gods . . .
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!" pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all." looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
I don't have problems reading, but you try reading someone who speaks your language as a second language, their ability to convey meanings is sometimes lost. This is why I asked you to clarify, let's see if you did that.
So you have again insulted all players who are Saboteur like Sicarius, Dark Angel, Brollax, Nocturnal... etc? Interesting. These are very experienced players I think the vast majority of the PVP community would disagree with your premise.
Piercing damage is high damage primarily because, like the HR of last mod, it ignores DR. Ignoring DR is always a bad idea IMHO, why should people even bother with Defensive stats if this is the case? If, as you said "combined with 100% crit makes it an overkill by small margin" you are reiterating my point. I do think that everything should respect DR. This is another potential fix for the problem. They could also make SE respect DR. I'm advocating for a decrease in overall DPS for TRs (most especially MI's) related to the 2 problems you just reiterated for me. I'd be amenable to anything that aids in that cause. No TR should be able to one shot with a daily, have consistently extremely high dps related to DR ignoring and 100% crit chance uptime. You are still agreeing with me here, thank you. You keep referring to PVE, this is not a PVE discussion as I stated before. Post PVE suggestions in your own forum post please because they don't further the discussion here, thanks.
If you think Sab and exe don't 1 shot then you don't play PVP sir, or you are poorly specced, or you are intentionally dealing misinforamtion. Whichever of the 3 is the case it makes your argument here irrelevant. I have hours, HOURS of footage detailing single shot SE's after the recent patch that, umm, nerfed it.
So the only proper spec for a TR is scoundrel? You really are stretching your credibility here, is this a troll? am I on like candid forum camera or something?
Most end game players, myself included, do wear headphones. However this should not be a necessity to purchase in addition to the game in order to properly play. If that's the case it should state it in the game requirements.
In terms of having better gear this is true. However the problem is that even undergeared TR's right now are still one shotting said heavily geared, heavily skilled players because of feats and abilities (like DR ignoring abilites and 100%crit) are unbalancing PVP.
I continue to read and hear the word "adapt" from TR's, I have to say I love this. It just continues to show how TRs want everyone else to "adapt" to their undodgeable, unmittagateable, tenacity ignoring abilites while unwilling to adapt to potential changes that may come to their class. To quote Inigo Montoyez "you keep using that word..."
The leaderboard is another discussion altogether, and I can guarantee that being page 1 isn't the goal of every PVPer, most experienced PVPers recognize the LB for what it is. Accepting the fate that is delivered by OP classes/encounters/feats/dailies is what I must do, but I can also come here and give viable feedback to the devs for said issues related to balancing and that is what I'm doing.
I can only assume that by "meat shields" you are referring to all "tanks" or tank hybrids in which case you are basically slapping at least 2/6ths of the gaming community in the face with your commentary. I always appreciate unbiased agendas like the one you are clearly forwarding.
If only all TR's would heed your sage advice, perhaps they could learn to play their class properly. f2pma you listening? Nanners? You guys need to listen to this guy. You aren't playing your class right apparently. Apparently you only think you know. Better start following this fella's posts if you want to be pro.
Thanks, I mean seriously, thank you so much for your post!
Before i will further adress your comments i will answer the last paragraph. Are you Sic or Nan? So why are you answering for them. Maybe you have a split personality you would like to talk about? Let them handle themsves mate and answer for your own. Now you might still want to answer that question yourself.
Meatshield - unprepared, low geared newcomer who is not event aware of his own class potential.
I will reply to you as soon as i will sort my pc out because doing so from the phone is a pain in the butt.
Yes, the build/type of TR does count. I was just trying to make a point that some TRs can easily be killed - some people here seem to think they are all gods . . .
They are strong in all forms at the moment. 100% Crit uptime in stealth is too strong, especially when combined with stuns and CCs as well as DR ignoring abilities, CC immunity, invisibility. It's just too much. It's like a mod 3 GWF that can stealth lol. This class needs to be addressed.
That said, there are differences in gear and skill obviously. However the difference in GS for other classes is not relative. I.E. If a GWF with 25k GS fights a 14K TR that has a daily. The 14k TR may very well win the fight because he can 1 shot shock the GWF to SF or death. If a CW with 20k goes against a 14k TR that has a daily, they simply must use a few daggers to take down their shield, use SS from stealth, or use DS, or use SB and then Shock them from Stealth and it's GG, back to spawn the CW goes. This is unacceptable. Are TR's gods? No, but only because their power word kill does have an 8 second cool down till they can get it up again.
Thanks for your reply.
On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"
Before i will further adress your comments i will answer the last paragraph. Are you Sic or Nan? So why are you answering for them. Maybe you have a split personality you would like to talk about? Let them handle themsves mate and answer for your own. Now you might still want to answer that question yourself.
Meatshield - unprepared, low geared newcomer who is not event aware of his own class potential.
I will reply to you as soon as i will sort my pc out because doing so from the phone is a pain in the butt.
I am not speaking for them, just making sure they noticed you were.
Thank you for giving me a dictionary definition of the term Meatshield, this must be the latest edition of websters as I was unaware of the change in meaning.
I look forward to your reply with baited (and switched) breath, and good luck with fixing your PC with your phone or whatever is causing you pain in your rear.
Thanks for your reply.
On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"
Comments
That CW or was it a TR?
But TR vs GWF is a joke atm, in a 1on1 a GWF will never win against an equal geard/skilled TR. 100% critchance from stealth needs to be removed ASAP from PVP. Let the 100% in PVE be untouched.
Depends what spec you are. Aimed Strike for Combat hits for more due to the sheer piercing damage that can proc from it.
Rain of Blades + aimed strike = auto proc flurry + piercing blade dot of doom
...but try landing that against someone who is paying attention.
Aimed strike alone is pretty weak since PB nerf though, and no way it does 15k even on squishies.
You sir, are so right IMO.
From someone playing a SW main I can guarantee you there's an insane gap between the SW and TR classes(CW too, but not as much). Removing the auto crit from stealth would remove half the problem. And it doesn't make sense that a single bloodbath use can leave opponents near death or already dead with a single use all the while being completely immune to all damage. I'm cool with either, but not both. And I don't like rogues one hitting my 40k hp bulky deflock with SE.
Oh you got defence? np, I got SE. Go back to spawn silly SW
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
More threads by me / Click on it
My Support Warlock/Temptation Thread
Thats kind of my original point.
The same can be said about gloaming cut.
I've been hit by aimed strike for about the same amount a gloaming cut would hit me. I've never had a gloaming cut hit me for more than like 8k.
I've had gloaming hit me for 20k post mitigation. And I have 47% DR. Yes, it's possible.
f2pma, I'm going to assume that english isn't your native language, which is fine, I appreciate all of my international friends who play the game. But you keep coming back to my posts and proving my points with everything you say. I'm not sure if you're actually on my side or if your grasp of the english language is just that bad.
Anyway, just so we understand each other, I'm quite happy I made this post. I feel addressing balancing issues is important. I stated that you can only place a TR against a TR because all other classes will die to a TR 1v1 (assuming equal skill or gear... or even if the TR is undergeared, or underskilled often).
What this means is that if your team doesn't have a TR and the other team does, you have essentially lost the match, Or if your TR is not as good as the other TR you have lost the match, or if you have less TR's than the other team you have lost the match.
If every match is dependent on TR's alone, the TR needs to be fixed. All you continuously do is try to talk about my skill (or in your opinion, lack thereof) as a TR all the while reiterating my points for me. Because of this I would encourage you to continue to post more. I appreciate having a TR actually spell out what is wrong with their class in the form of an attempted forum troll. It makes my job easier.
Thanks for your reply.
Well to be honest i have to agree with f2pma about skill level of yours. But thats not why i am responding.
The vast majority of Tr players now are playing brainless saboteur specs, not even well enough. This is the cheapest, easiest and laziest way to represent any values tr possess in pvp. There is nothing galant about it and will not be. This is because how saboteur is designed. Back in mod 3 and 4 i remeber only a few dared playing semiperma or full combat. Better yet i think beside me, the only LordRust played a MI scoundrel combat spec.
Now to the point. People do not enter pvp with proper gear where black ice set is Free after 35 days. They do not have 35+k hp and their playing skills are far from acceptable. Then after being <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> by a tr from page 10 of lboard or lower they come here and cry.
No i do not think you have to be a tr to beat a tr. Many good pvp players from essence and other guilds had proven that. The exception to that is the fact that low skill exe or sab players are running oneshot or semidazeme cheap compositions which would die if the majority of players would ever care about dressing properly for pvp and the piercing aspect of tr attacks would respect defenses (tenacity at least).
And if you are starting posts like that better look in the mirror first. You not only play the cheapest and lamest tr spec but also deviate the community feel about the whole class by doing so. No the autocrit feature should not be removed, but the piercing damage should be changed and should respect tenacity at least. To remove the crit you would have to give something back without further nerfing tr to oblivion especialy in pve. Prolonging stealth builds should utilize lower damage potential due to the sheer advantage of a longer stealth. This is quite oposite now.
As always, your impression of my skill level is, entirely, your opinion and you are welcome to it. Now for the rest of your post, it meanders so much that I'm not sure what to make of it. So all saboteurs are playing the "cheapest and lamest tr spec"? And any player who dies to either executioners or saboteurs aren't "dressing properly for PVP"?
I'm sorry but I can't even begin to properly address this commentary. It's not very descriptive, nor is any of it correct. I appreciate alternative views to mine but they at least need to contain a shred of useful information. That said, perhaps if you clarified a bit and actually flushed out some of your ideas they would make more sense or contain any validity at all.
As for 1v1ing TR's as another class I would challenge any end game player, non TR, to 1v1 Sicarius, Brollax, Dark Angel, or N0cturnal for example, and then show me footage that they can beat them 1v1 on a semi consistant basis, heck I'll be impressed if they luck into it once. If you show me proof of this in mod 5 I will rethink my initial post, however when you realize this is impossible I would challenge you to rethink yours.
Now one thing I think I did glean is the PVE vs PVP thing. As far as I'm concerned PVE TR's can have 100% crit uptime and no stealth reveal, heck I don't care if they have stealth depletion and SE is AOE against mobs to be quite frank with you. This is only PVP related.
Thanks for your reply.
not a single serious pvp player agree with it
not even one
even forum trolls avoid it
90% of the post are you and me .....
because i always want the last word lol.
for the last time
triple dip nerf to tr is out of the question
and btw no one has to put their view of the tr
its enough they dont like yours
I think the serious PVP players who actually posted that they do agree might take issue with that. But apparently only TR's are serious PVP players in your eyes, which, again only shows plainly your take on this and further proves my point.
Thanks for your replies, I greatly appreciate you giving credence to my arguments!
thats for devs to decide, and its not like they havent done it before, like with gwf for example
every mod had players from same class no one can beat
1 2 3 4 5
gwf was op for way more then a year
i just wish they threat tr the same as gwf
so even a 3 year old can play geared gwf vs 5 pugs
btw thats why i stop playing gwf
So all GWFs are playing an easy mode class, is that what I'm getting here f2pma? This gets better and better. So you stop playing GWF and now you play an umm underpowered TR, is that it? This is really good stuff, keep it coming man.
Thanks for your reply.
This sums it up. Those who really know how to PvP can easily learn to defeat a TR. The proof lies above.
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!"
pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all."
looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
there wasnt a single tr who could beat my rank 7 gwf mod 2,3
yeah it was easy more for so long
Topic one. How Tr image is deviated by people like you running lazy build only because its "top notch" now:
a) sub and exe currently is beneficial for players with below average skill. One shot and permastealth are a primary picks for less experienced now. And let me paraphrase Dinter on that in the eve of mod 5: "im going to play a scoundrel because thats the only build that requires skills in mod 5"
C) change first strike to hard blows or something and change its 60% damage bonus to a fixed 10-25% for fixed time after starting combat (further calculations needed).
Vouala now tou had got rid of borh oneshot and permadps plus a problematic SE. Sab and exe hits hard on pvp but rarely 1shots anyone, especialy a tank.
D) now you can proceed to change to other fotm spec from another class and this time play it properly.
Now a second topic about pvp awareness and real skills vs useless Gs figures
A) most people do not play with headphones on. Thats a major mistale against a competent TR.
C) pvp means adapting. Gear from the last season/mod might not be best for the meta right now. Get artifacts to counter specific builds, swap skills.
D) practice or be never good at ot and accept your fate. If u want to play casual pvp i suggest you go for fps no rpg type of pvp. If you cant progress trough the ranks you are the only one responsible for that. That is why not everyone becomea a page 1 player.
E) gs means little if you cant build the proper character for pvp. I myself am not fond at that but currently IMO Tr 14k might equal gwf 18k because of the way we are stacking abilities. Trs had always been lower on gs due to mechanical reasons. That is why when you see 19k tr expect the same performance as your 21-22 gwf would have. And above all. Dont bring gs figures to the discussion because of stat distributions are handled.
Now i could go on and on but meat shields (sory for that) are not going to read it anyway. Now we were left with two kinds of people:
A) those who know how to play this class properly
B)those who think they know.
The later should not have a voice in the conversation for obvious reasons.
Now ask yourselves which ones are you.
Edit. Hard to format it from the phone so you have to deal with it)
WK don't have SE bro. Have you been reading any of this forum or did you show up late to the party?
Thanks for your reply
and even then gwf took more skill to kill ppl than TR now
and gwf was op for 2 mods - 2 and 3, from december 5th 2013 til mod 4 when class got completely destroyed on august 14 2014 not really a year on earth, before that gwf was trash
I don't have problems reading, but you try reading someone who speaks your language as a second language, their ability to convey meanings is sometimes lost. This is why I asked you to clarify, let's see if you did that.
So you have again insulted all players who are Saboteur like Sicarius, Dark Angel, Brollax, Nocturnal... etc? Interesting. These are very experienced players I think the vast majority of the PVP community would disagree with your premise.
Piercing damage is high damage primarily because, like the HR of last mod, it ignores DR. Ignoring DR is always a bad idea IMHO, why should people even bother with Defensive stats if this is the case? If, as you said "combined with 100% crit makes it an overkill by small margin" you are reiterating my point. I do think that everything should respect DR. This is another potential fix for the problem. They could also make SE respect DR. I'm advocating for a decrease in overall DPS for TRs (most especially MI's) related to the 2 problems you just reiterated for me. I'd be amenable to anything that aids in that cause. No TR should be able to one shot with a daily, have consistently extremely high dps related to DR ignoring and 100% crit chance uptime. You are still agreeing with me here, thank you. You keep referring to PVE, this is not a PVE discussion as I stated before. Post PVE suggestions in your own forum post please because they don't further the discussion here, thanks.
If you think Sab, without the use of firststrike, don't 1 shot then you don't play PVP sir, or you are poorly specced or don't understand other specs, or you are intentionally dealing misinforamtion. Whichever of the 3 is the case it makes your argument here irrelevant. I have hours, HOURS of footage detailing single shot SE's after the recent patch that, umm, nerfed it.
So the only proper spec for a TR is scoundrel? You really are stretching your credibility here, is this a troll? am I on like candid forum camera or something?
Most end game players, myself included, do wear headphones. However this should not be a necessity to purchase in addition to the game in order to properly play. If that's the case it should state it in the game requirements.
In terms of having better gear this is true. However the problem is that even undergeared TR's right now are still one shotting said heavily geared, heavily skilled players because of feats and abilities (like DR ignoring abilites and 100%crit) are unbalancing PVP.
I continue to read and hear the word "adapt" from TR's, I have to say I love this. It just continues to show how TRs want everyone else to "adapt" to their undodgeable, unmittagateable, tenacity ignoring abilites while unwilling to adapt to potential changes that may come to their class. To quote Inigo Montoyez "you keep using that word..."
The leaderboard is another discussion altogether, and I can guarantee that being page 1 isn't the goal of every PVPer, most experienced PVPers recognize the LB for what it is. Accepting the fate that is delivered by OP classes/encounters/feats/dailies is what I must do, but I can also come here and give viable feedback to the devs for said issues related to balancing and that is what I'm doing.
I can only assume that by "meat shields" you are referring to all "tanks" or tank hybrids in which case you are basically slapping at least 2/6ths of the gaming community in the face with your commentary. I always appreciate unbiased agendas like the one you are clearly forwarding.
If only all TR's would heed your sage advice, perhaps they could learn to play their class properly. f2pma you listening? Nanners? You guys need to listen to this guy. You aren't playing your class right apparently. Apparently you only think you know. Better start following this fella's posts if you want to be pro.
Thanks, I mean seriously, thank you so much for your post!
2 things:
- trs do actually one shot a tank
- maybe i;m deaf... i see no reason for your headphones and i can take it as pure discrimination.
One other note: this should not be a fps where i can die from 1 shot, even there is not 1 shot all the time like is TR now.
I play WoW and in PVP even high geared players don't oneshot my lowly geared rogue.
I think this alone would give a much better sense of balance to PVP.
+1 To this. One shots should not exist.
Yes, the build/type of TR does count. I was just trying to make a point that some TRs can easily be killed - some people here seem to think they are all gods . . .
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!"
pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all."
looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
Before i will further adress your comments i will answer the last paragraph. Are you Sic or Nan? So why are you answering for them. Maybe you have a split personality you would like to talk about? Let them handle themsves mate and answer for your own. Now you might still want to answer that question yourself.
Meatshield - unprepared, low geared newcomer who is not event aware of his own class potential.
I will reply to you as soon as i will sort my pc out because doing so from the phone is a pain in the butt.
They are strong in all forms at the moment. 100% Crit uptime in stealth is too strong, especially when combined with stuns and CCs as well as DR ignoring abilities, CC immunity, invisibility. It's just too much. It's like a mod 3 GWF that can stealth lol. This class needs to be addressed.
That said, there are differences in gear and skill obviously. However the difference in GS for other classes is not relative. I.E. If a GWF with 25k GS fights a 14K TR that has a daily. The 14k TR may very well win the fight because he can 1 shot shock the GWF to SF or death. If a CW with 20k goes against a 14k TR that has a daily, they simply must use a few daggers to take down their shield, use SS from stealth, or use DS, or use SB and then Shock them from Stealth and it's GG, back to spawn the CW goes. This is unacceptable. Are TR's gods? No, but only because their power word kill does have an 8 second cool down till they can get it up again.
Thanks for your reply.
I am not speaking for them, just making sure they noticed you were.
Thank you for giving me a dictionary definition of the term Meatshield, this must be the latest edition of websters as I was unaware of the change in meaning.
I look forward to your reply with baited (and switched) breath, and good luck with fixing your PC with your phone or whatever is causing you pain in your rear.
Thanks for your reply.