No it was not plainly stated as such in your first post. But hidden amidst the lovely written paragraphs and requesting an overall damage reduction for a class while stating you do not advocate further nefts to base damage is plain old double standards. – Regardless of how prettily you write.
But since you say now that you are just asking for a damage reduction for all TR’s and all TR’s encounters/atwill and what have you’s , I will give you my opinion of the TR before the changes made today. Yes some TR's did too much damage in PVP environment only – the Devs answer to this was to have a stealth reveal and some damage reductions, which may very well cure this issue.
Why did the DEVS take this approach – personally I feel it was because you all moaned more about perma stealth than anything else, even when TR’s were saying it’s not the stealth. So you got what you ask for – So again how about now trying it out for a time in a live systems for all before requesting yet more reductions, and especially reductions that will very badly and adversely affect people in the PVE game, (or are you trying to tell me that TR’s are OP in that area too) but that is the point really is it not, you just don’t really care about them. Because for you balance is all about high end BIS PVP
Again right or wrong – and if right please request changes for a PVP balance that only affects PVP and does not ruin the PVE classes. And if No please do let us know how the TR’s are OP class in PVE
Thank you for your reply
And my warmest regards to you
Matthew
It was plainly stated, however for your benefit, unless you're color blind in which case it will be useless, I have outlined the important portions of my original post in green. This is to the benefit of anyone who has difficulty reading entire posts before posting replies. If you want me to comment on the PVE side of TR's I can make a separate post pertaining to what should be done, imho, to make them balanced in PVE. This is not that post. This is purely for PVP. I stated earlier in this very forum that as far as I'm concerned reveals and even stealth depletion should be done away with in PVE.
"Balance" in PVE is really another forum topic altogether and not one I'm particularly interested in writing at the moment as I play more PVP than PVE these days.
Thanks for your reply.
On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"
i disagree, i'm a pve specced tr and when i go into a 1v2 (disadvantage in gs) - 1 highly geared cw + pve specced sw (same gear). I can destroy one but not two - take away the crit from stealth. Could it be i suck or that both are also highly skilled maybe, but your any rogue can go into a 2v1 and win is not true. Myth gone, the only rogues who can do that are perhaps pvp specced and skilled enough to know their class.
any class can 1v2 any class of equal gear and skill, you just want to make sure TR's are never that class.
You answered yourself with your own statement.
Thanks for your reply.
On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"
As you clearly read in my post to which you replied:
"...It is possible to lower that to 6 stacks in 3 seconds with the arti weapon and glacial advance. Some encounters also apply chill, so if the cw spams out chill encounters into ray of frost the time to freeze can be less."
Yes, you can do things to increase the rate/effectiveness of chill with feats/gear. You can also increase the rate of loss/effectiveness of stealth in the same way.
***Edit:
I do realize that entangle, RoF can freeze people, but not the way you say it can. Not without feats or arti-weapon, or also using a chill-stacking encounter. I play an Oppressor CW. I use the arcane eye of the golden dragon, not the chilling, because armor pen. I get the stacks from glacial advance, but not from the arti. I do not use orb of imposition because ITC, unstoppable, block, etc.
I cannot freeze somebody before entangle ends without using an encounter even with glacial advance. Maybe I could with orb of imposition, but that would mean removing a more flexible passive to accomplish.
not using that feature is the very reason why you can't freeze someone b4 entangle ends. our controls are about 40% shorter in pvp so it's necessary to slot orb of imposition in order to actually control people (hey clerics, does that number sound familiar to you? Righteousness in control-form).
in fact, my controls in pvp with orb is about as long as my controls in pve without orb.
It was plainly stated, however for your benefit, unless you're color blind in which case it will be useless, I have outlined the important portions of my original post in green. This is to the benefit of anyone who has difficulty reading entire posts before posting replies. If you want me to comment on the PVE side of TR's I can make a separate post pertaining to what should be done, imho, to make them balanced in PVE. This is not that post. This is purely for PVP. I stated earlier in this very forum that as far as I'm concerned reveals and even stealth depletion should be done away with in PVE.
"Balance" in PVE is really another forum topic altogether and not one I'm particularly interested in writing at the moment as I play more PVP than PVE these days.
Thanks for your reply.
How nice you seem to be losing your flowery writing – and actually I am colour blind so yes your post was useless, and I think my original reply pretty much proved I have read / digested your initial post
So just to be plain and simple – imho you are completely an utterly wrong about what needs to be done to correct PVP damage for TR’s. It is more than likely that things like SO upon the SAB tree are the real issues in regards to excess damage by some TR’s and there are already posts/talks going in about this – and perhaps other feats available upon other trees rather than the simple base mechanics and base damage– but hey just neft the lot in PVP, I care not
Have a happy day
And you do write nicely – it was a pleasure to read
0
jeffro9000Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 121Bounty Hunter
not using that feature is the very reason why you can't freeze someone b4 entangle ends. our controls are about 40% shorter in pvp so it's necessary to slot orb of imposition in order to actually control people (hey clerics, does that number sound familiar to you? Righteousness in control-form).
in fact, my controls in pvp with orb is about as long as my controls in pve without orb.
This is a bit off topic, so I will refrain from non-TR related posts after this, I promise.
I found orb to be ineffective against skilled players/certain classes because they will simply break/avoid the control. There are better passives that are more reliable in more situations in my experience. But that is part of my point, you have to make a choice to sacrifice something to gain the other. This is not so much true for the TR at the moment.
How nice you seem to be losing your flowery writing – and actually I am colour blind so yes your post was useless, and I think my original reply pretty much proved I have read / digested your initial post
So just to be plain and simple – imho you are completely an utterly wrong about what needs to be done to correct PVP damage for TR’s. It is more than likely that things like SO upon the SAB tree are the real issues in regards to excess damage by some TR’s and there are already posts/talks going in about this – and perhaps other feats available upon other trees rather than the simple base mechanics and base damage– but hey just neft the lot in PVP, I care not
Have a happy day
And you do write nicely – it was a pleasure to read
I appreciate that you enjoy my writing, so I'll try to share a bit more with you. SE is not a problem with just Saboteur, neither is the critical damage done from stealth. SE ignores DR, that's fine. It crits 100% of the time from stealth, that's not so fine.
I have just logged back into live and every shocking I've done so far on full health targets has killed them from stealth. If they have a dodge mechanic I simply hit them with either shadow strike or dazing strike, or for that matter I could use smoke bomb, once they are dazed, I kill them with shocking. I have the cleric artifact, I just got my black ice cloak and I use lathander's dew. I can have a SE up every 20 seconds or so depending. End game TR's can have one up every 8-10 seconds. So I get a free kill every 20 seconds. If it did not crit, it would not be an insta kill. This is a very simple solution to the issue. It also leaves the TR with the capabilities to 1 shot someone 35-45% of the time depending on how they feat/spec/build.
Thanks for your time.
On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"
Just as this video was propaganda for a phone company and was decidedly not real (read the description about nokia making the commercial) so also is your commentary creative propaganda. Despite the fact that, much like the video, I find it entertaining, it in no way describes the product you are selling. Bait and switch (irony fully intended).
Thanks for your time.
On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"
What purpose would be left for the TR class if you take away the insane DPS?
Well I think you would be giving them their stealth back. In which case, I'd say they will be the best nodeholders.
If you don't know what that means, then you probably have not done relevant PVP. If you do know what that means, then you know how important a good TR is a keeping the opponent's base occupied long enough for your team to clear home and contest mid.
so we have this stealthed guy that is killing people around.
What does it do?
Bloodbath
Gloaming
why are people dying to these skill/combos? Because they crit and apply piercing damage.
What can we do to stop this?
Bloodbath does 10-12k max without piercing damages, something that is being fixed right now. So problem solved
Gloaming cut. It does not deplete stealth, if feated it refills it....should it crit 100% ?? no.
Proposed change: gloaming cut now deplete stealth. If feated it does +30 % damage, not deplete stealth, it refills it BUT THIS SKILL CAN NO MORE CRIT.
This mixed to reveal will balance things.
People will have two ways of playing: who cares about stealth lemme hit my 10k gloaming with depletion or lemme play save with no critted gloaming. ( both path will be able to eventually kill the enemy )
Piercing damage: remove it and give an healing feat as compensation
sorry but no, trs should not get a healing feat. remove piercing and just give them a resistible increase to the dmg from their stealth. Trs should never have a healing feat. Do you know why? because they have stealth. They can already go stealth and heal back to full life by stalling without any feats and now you want them to be even more godly?
Dailies shouldn't be aviable in PVP if you ask me.
and damage in general should be lowered a lot in pvp too, like 50% less damage to all attacks and skills.
uhhh, i can freeze someone in the time it takes for my entangle to end by just pointing ray of frost without the arty for it. oppressors can still perma-control with just 3 control encounters and the 4th is just for more damage or defense. and i only have 85% control bonus.
another thing about cw is that it is easier to defend against them because you can see them, and also their at-wills don't proc dazes or go through cc immunity.
another thing about cw is that it is easier to defend against them because you can see them, and also their at-wills don't proc dazes or go through cc immunity.
i still have never noticed that bug you keep mentioning where a daze will bypass immunity. probably because every single gf just uses the reflect daily instead. every other immunity in the game will block it besides maybe that 1 gf daily that i never see.
if you are comparing wizard controls, then you should drop the perma-stealth argument because scoundrels were never made for it. also, i can perma control a lot easier as an oppressor than a scoundrel since it's all ranged and doesn't rely on perfectly following up dazing strike with a flurry on a mobile target that can possibly outrun me while i stop for the at-wills.
1) ALL damage should respect DR.
- If you ask me, they should actually separate DR into two categories: Physical/Elemental. But this is an entirely different discussion.
2) Stealth should NOT give 100% critical. Thats just silly. It should have never done this for Lashing Blade, and now its doing it for all abilities. This needs to be removed. I get stealth should offer some benefits. This initially WAS combat advantage until you basically gave it to ALL classes, which made the TR "lose" something so now your giving it back with Crit.
You need to remove combat advantage from mark and other abilities. This needs to stay as "attacking behind" the target and now stealth can give CA and be fine. Another idea is to give any encounters used within stealth get a reduced CD ontop of their added "stealth" effect.
3) Well actually all that pretty much fixes the issues. Everyone would do much less damage since everyone loses CA 100% uptime due to mark and I think some CW abilities. TR keeps its CA so by comparison TR will not lose as much damage. ALL abilities respect DR, this fixes things like SE and bloodbath, also losing 100% crit also fixes the issue.
You may want to work on the consistency of your arguments. Either feat paths matter, or they don't.
well storm spell is universal for that entire paragon regardless. i control people to death, but it's a lot slower than a wizard just proccing storm spell.
the control paths are just oppressor vs scoundrel. the person i quoted acts like a scoundrel stays invisible the entire fight when that is just wasting the entire feat path. it's possible but is just acting like an inferior sab/exe
1) ALL damage should respect DR.
- If you ask me, they should actually separate DR into two categories: Physical/Elemental. But this is an entirely different discussion.
2) Stealth should NOT give 100% critical. Thats just silly. It should have never done this for Lashing Blade, and now its doing it for all abilities. This needs to be removed. I get stealth should offer some benefits. This initially WAS combat advantage until you basically gave it to ALL classes, which made the TR "lose" something so now your giving it back with Crit.
You need to remove combat advantage from mark and other abilities. This needs to stay as "attacking behind" the target and now stealth can give CA and be fine. Another idea is to give any encounters used within stealth get a reduced CD ontop of their added "stealth" effect.
3) Well actually all that pretty much fixes the issues. Everyone would do much less damage since everyone loses CA 100% uptime due to mark and I think some CW abilities. TR keeps its CA so by comparison TR will not lose as much damage. ALL abilities respect DR, this fixes things like SE and bloodbath, also losing 100% crit also fixes the issue.
DONE. Game balanced.
agreed, although very few people agree with removing the 100% critical. everyone can keep their combat advantage, but piercing should just go.
they will still have chance to 1shot you with SE, it will just depend on if they crit
Not if SE respects DR and Tenacity. Also chance of crit would be cut in half. Your also forgetting tenacity not only reduces damage but also crit damage as well.
So this one factor alone would easily cut damage of SE in half (on a crit).
Villains menace is the daily that give s gf cc immunity. This is needed in order to fight back effectively against smoke/path of the blades combo. Also the fact that if you get hit my at-wills or blood bath dailies and you will get cc'ed. Makes it near impossible to counter without having cc immunity.
Villains menace is the daily that give s gf cc immunity. This is needed in order to fight back effectively against smoke/path of the blades combo. Also the fact that if you get hit my at-wills or blood bath dailies and you will get cc'ed. Makes it near impossible to counter without having cc immunity.
Dont forget this daily NEEDS to provide CC immunity upon activation - not AFTER the cast time.
As a proponent of balance and after talking with multiple TR friends and playing a TR (both WK and MI) in executioner/saboteur/scoundrel setups, as well as practicing on the preview shard I feel a few changes still may need to be made.
Firstly the dailies. Bloodbath is a little less bloody on the preview shard which I was very glad to see. Being able to wipe an entire node with 1-2 dailies was way too strong. Shocking execution is still able to take my GWF's health from 44k to ~ 5k with a single hit despite the proposed nerf to base damage. I think this can be solved along with some other issues which I will summarize at the end.
Secondarily the stealth changes. After testing on the preview shard with TR's I noticed that the stealth reveal is actually not that revealing. It is a couple of seconds but it's not terribly different from the fact that they are close enough to be revealed when they come in to do a gloaming cut and dodge roll away and they will be in stealth again by the time their roll is up anyway. I know this may not make TR's very happy but I see it as little difference to stealth overall.
Thirdly gloaming cut for saboteurs does around 8-15k damage per hit with at wills from stealth. This is very good, very high dps and very difficult to deal with. I do feel that dps from a TR should be high and considering they sacrifice their encounters to maintain stealth or itc or to stun then all that's left for killing is at-will dps and dailies. However 15k per hit for an at will guaranteed from stealth is a bit much. Not to mention the secondary damage you will take from feats in the executioner tree and saboteur tree.
To summarize I feel that dps for the TR is very strong and that SE is definitely too strong when the class has so much other utility working in its favor. Here is what I propose: take away the assured crit from stealth. This would leave the chance for high damage (often greater than 30% crit chance) but it would force TR's to feat into crit rather than leaving it up to a class feature. It would mean that 1 of every 3 shockings would take you down to 5% of your HP and 1 of every 3 gloaming cuts would hit for 15k. This alone would be enough to balance the DPS of the TR this mod imho. I don't propose any other large changes to the class but TR's should not have the ability to 1v2 other classes and kill both of them assuming equal gear and skill.
Thanks for your time and consideration.
How about now I just played PVP as soon I attacked I'm dead already or 10 percent HP I could not even kill someone with BB even it a quarter health. Sab is useless now and exec you may kill one just pray the enemy dont have soul forge most of the TR right now turn into scoundrel the only viable option for us. Low damage at lease you can run around like clowns for a long period of time.
How about now I just played PVP as soon I attacked I'm dead already or 10 percent HP I could not even kill someone with BB even it a quarter health. Sab is useless now and exec you may kill one just pray the enemy dont have soul forge most of the TR right now turn into scoundrel the only viable option for us. Low damage at lease you can run around like clowns for a long period of time.
bull**** you are lying, if you suck now as a tr, then you have always been bad.
How about now I just played PVP as soon I attacked I'm dead already or 10 percent HP I could not even kill someone with BB even it a quarter health. Sab is useless now and exec you may kill one just pray the enemy dont have soul forge most of the TR right now turn into scoundrel the only viable option for us. Low damage at lease you can run around like clowns for a long period of time.
Yes, exactly that. This is now Trickster Clown.
Doesn't matter what forum stars will say, it won't change the fact that it's ridiculous to be Rogue with no stealth.
Tairev-TR(All kind of killing tools) Asha-DC(Faithful-Anointed Champion) Vilgefortz-CW(Thaumaturge-balance)
Yes, exactly that. This is now Trickster Clown.
Doesn't matter what forum stars will say, it won't change the fact that it's ridiculous to be Rogue with no stealth.
Thats petty much same thing occurs couple months ago that they trolled the GWF's unstoppable. Ask to nerf or even remove the main thing that class rely on.
0
icyphishMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,255Arc User
edited December 2014
From what I have been reading this is what I am getting...
A lot of TR players are sounding like Stealth is being taken away from the game... true?
Some TR players are sounding like once they attack and reveal from stealth "to the target only" they would just die... true? (Can't they dodge, roll, stealth again...?)
When TR are in steath, they are getting 100%cri/ combat advantage/ cri severity / feat multipler which makes their attack boosted by <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>% damage including the ability to ignore DR/Tenancity... true? Does that mean they can do a huge attack in stealth, roll away x 2~3 then re-stealth again.. then come back to do round 2 to finish their target...?
Am I not following or is it so hard to play a TR...?
From what I have been reading this is what I am getting...
A lot of TR players are sounding like Stealth is being taken away from the game... true?
Some TR players are sounding like once they attack and reveal from stealth "to the target only" they would just die... true? (Can't they dodge, roll, stealth again...?)
When TR are in steath, they are getting 100%cri/ combat advantage/ cri severity / feat multipler which makes their attack boosted by <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>% damage including the ability to ignore DR/Tenancity... true? Does that mean they can do a huge attack in stealth, roll away x 2~3 then re-stealth again.. then come back to do round 2 to finish their target...?
Am I not following or is it so hard to play a TR...?
I don't agree with the 2sec vis in stealth being that < Players IF they are smart use lock target.> They do that and will be able to see a person in stealth until they dodge. So why 2sec vis in stealth when people can already see you while stealth.
As a 14k TR, I do agree that some of our damage is noticeably high. SE is shockingly powerful for what it is, but I don't believe that removing 100% crit is the right response. I don't believe that any blanket solution is what's needed, rather a specific reduction to the offending abilities, SE, SO & arguably GC.
Shocking Execution - up the base damage by 5%-15% and take away it's ability to ignore defense outright.
It already benefits from Armor Pen; if stacked well, it can also benefit from 100% crit, +60% damage (First Strike), +100% power and an additional +25% defense ignored for the Executioners, up to +50% more damage from Scoundrels via Skullcracker; why does it need to completely ignore defence in addition to that?
Shadowy Opportunity - either the damage needs to be lowered staggeringly hard (50-80%), or it needs to be based on a form of damage that is mitigated (like HR Piercing Blades).
Free procs of 1.5k - 4k with every hit from stealth that can't be resisted in any way, shape, or form is very strong, and downright insane when coupled with Bloodbath.
Gloaming Cut - many people have talked about reducing this, but I'm not really certain it needs one (from my own experiences at least). I have 5k power, a purple artifact weapon, 24 Str (blue belt), a lesser vorpal, and ignore 50% of resistance; I tend to hit around the 5k mark, usually less though. On targets that are nearly dead I hit closer to 10k, but that's a tooltip effect and not an issue with base damage.
With double my current power, two fully upgraded Artifact Weapons, an orange Str belt and a Perfect Vorpal I could see myself doing around the 10-12k mark. My concern is that (hypothetically) I've upgraded my build and paid the huge prices necessary/grinded like crazy to achieve that kind of damage, not to mention all the stats that will be lacking to make up for that kind of strength (I run a glass cannon build that could be choked to death with a cordless phone); shouldn't I be allowed to do that kind of damage with an At-Will that has no followup combo and a 1.5 second delay?
This isn't rhetorical, I'm asking the question. Perhaps I'm being completely unreasonable; I PuG exclusively and have no experience with end game PvP other than being whomped by premades. I also don't generally use Gloaming Cut (I seem to be one of the few people who actually likes Sly Flourish).
If it is, then perhaps a base damage decrease might be the way to go. That or remove its damage increase VS injured target.
As for the changes to stealth, I haven't had a chance to try it yet, but from what I've heard I doubt I'll like it.
From what I have been reading this is what I am getting...
A lot of TR players are sounding like Stealth is being taken away from the game... true?
Some TR players are sounding like once they attack and reveal from stealth "to the target only" they would just die... true? (Can't they dodge, roll, stealth again...?)
When TR are in steath, they are getting 100%cri/ combat advantage/ cri severity / feat multipler which makes their attack boosted by <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>% damage including the ability to ignore DR/Tenancity... true? Does that mean they can do a huge attack in stealth, roll away x 2~3 then re-stealth again.. then come back to do round 2 to finish their target...?
Am I not following or is it so hard to play a TR...?
You are following and it's super easy!
And with the new 2sec nerf it gets better!
People can now see you when you SS them from stealth, dazing them while you leap in the air performing that outstanding, mighty,skillful thing that's called Shocking Execution.
Before the stealth reveal only the Tr could enjoy that thrilling moment.Now you all can!You are actually able to see where that came from!! Ain't that awesome??!?!!?!
As for the dmg reduction of SE...
I saw a gwf getting a 58k crit a few hours ago.Without the nerf that would be 70K.that's a nerf (or it isn't, maybe it isn't, yeh sure it isn't)
Oh and something else, about the boosted tenacity. when you vs a TR, he actually has tenacity while you don't.
Can you figure out why??
Because his SE or any kind of piercing dmg he deals don't give a **** about your tenacity.
If your class also deals enormous piercing dmg ,well that dosen't change much since he can 1shot you and you can't, does it??
So guess what. The little invisible,annoying, piercing spammers got a boost! You didn't!
0
icyphishMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,255Arc User
You are following and it's super easy!
And with the new 2sec nerf it gets better!
People can now see you when you SS them from stealth, dazing them while you leap in the air performing that outstanding, mighty,skillful thing that's called Shocking Execution.
Before the stealth reveal only the Tr could enjoy that thrilling moment.Now you all can!You are actually able to see where that came from!! Ain't that awesome??!?!!?!
As for the dmg reduction of SE...
I saw a gwf getting a 58k crit a few hours ago.Without the nerf that would be 70K.that's a nerf (or it isn't, maybe it isn't, yeh sure it isn't)
Oh and something else, about the boosted tenacity. when you vs a TR, he actually has tenacity while you don't.
Can you figure out why??
Because his SE or any kind of piercing dmg he deals don't give a **** about your tenacity.
If your class also deals enormous piercing dmg ,well that dosen't change much since he can 1shot you and you can't, does it??
So guess what. The little invisible,annoying, piercing spammers got a boost! You didn't!
hMMmmm... sounds like they buffed the already godly TR again...? hmm...... time to work on my lowbie TR i guess... firstly they are so cool, everyone talks about them, 2nd, they can one shot most of the players... seeing them or not the target is dying in 1~2 shots anyway... just what I need to play a fair game
Comments
It was plainly stated, however for your benefit, unless you're color blind in which case it will be useless, I have outlined the important portions of my original post in green. This is to the benefit of anyone who has difficulty reading entire posts before posting replies. If you want me to comment on the PVE side of TR's I can make a separate post pertaining to what should be done, imho, to make them balanced in PVE. This is not that post. This is purely for PVP. I stated earlier in this very forum that as far as I'm concerned reveals and even stealth depletion should be done away with in PVE.
"Balance" in PVE is really another forum topic altogether and not one I'm particularly interested in writing at the moment as I play more PVP than PVE these days.
Thanks for your reply.
You answered yourself with your own statement.
Thanks for your reply.
not using that feature is the very reason why you can't freeze someone b4 entangle ends. our controls are about 40% shorter in pvp so it's necessary to slot orb of imposition in order to actually control people (hey clerics, does that number sound familiar to you? Righteousness in control-form).
in fact, my controls in pvp with orb is about as long as my controls in pve without orb.
How nice you seem to be losing your flowery writing – and actually I am colour blind so yes your post was useless, and I think my original reply pretty much proved I have read / digested your initial post
So just to be plain and simple – imho you are completely an utterly wrong about what needs to be done to correct PVP damage for TR’s. It is more than likely that things like SO upon the SAB tree are the real issues in regards to excess damage by some TR’s and there are already posts/talks going in about this – and perhaps other feats available upon other trees rather than the simple base mechanics and base damage– but hey just neft the lot in PVP, I care not
Have a happy day
And you do write nicely – it was a pleasure to read
This is a bit off topic, so I will refrain from non-TR related posts after this, I promise.
I found orb to be ineffective against skilled players/certain classes because they will simply break/avoid the control. There are better passives that are more reliable in more situations in my experience. But that is part of my point, you have to make a choice to sacrifice something to gain the other. This is not so much true for the TR at the moment.
Jeffrina Jones, GWF
Jeffrodo, CW
Jeffrogue, Rog
Jelfro, GF
Jeffrogolas Do'Urden, HR
Jeffrodo Jaggins, SW
I appreciate that you enjoy my writing, so I'll try to share a bit more with you. SE is not a problem with just Saboteur, neither is the critical damage done from stealth. SE ignores DR, that's fine. It crits 100% of the time from stealth, that's not so fine.
I have just logged back into live and every shocking I've done so far on full health targets has killed them from stealth. If they have a dodge mechanic I simply hit them with either shadow strike or dazing strike, or for that matter I could use smoke bomb, once they are dazed, I kill them with shocking. I have the cleric artifact, I just got my black ice cloak and I use lathander's dew. I can have a SE up every 20 seconds or so depending. End game TR's can have one up every 8-10 seconds. So I get a free kill every 20 seconds. If it did not crit, it would not be an insta kill. This is a very simple solution to the issue. It also leaves the TR with the capabilities to 1 shot someone 35-45% of the time depending on how they feat/spec/build.
Thanks for your time.
Just as this video was propaganda for a phone company and was decidedly not real (read the description about nokia making the commercial) so also is your commentary creative propaganda. Despite the fact that, much like the video, I find it entertaining, it in no way describes the product you are selling. Bait and switch (irony fully intended).
Thanks for your time.
Well I think you would be giving them their stealth back. In which case, I'd say they will be the best nodeholders.
If you don't know what that means, then you probably have not done relevant PVP. If you do know what that means, then you know how important a good TR is a keeping the opponent's base occupied long enough for your team to clear home and contest mid.
and damage in general should be lowered a lot in pvp too, like 50% less damage to all attacks and skills.
i still have never noticed that bug you keep mentioning where a daze will bypass immunity. probably because every single gf just uses the reflect daily instead. every other immunity in the game will block it besides maybe that 1 gf daily that i never see.
if you are comparing wizard controls, then you should drop the perma-stealth argument because scoundrels were never made for it. also, i can perma control a lot easier as an oppressor than a scoundrel since it's all ranged and doesn't rely on perfectly following up dazing strike with a flurry on a mobile target that can possibly outrun me while i stop for the at-wills.
1) ALL damage should respect DR.
- If you ask me, they should actually separate DR into two categories: Physical/Elemental. But this is an entirely different discussion.
2) Stealth should NOT give 100% critical. Thats just silly. It should have never done this for Lashing Blade, and now its doing it for all abilities. This needs to be removed. I get stealth should offer some benefits. This initially WAS combat advantage until you basically gave it to ALL classes, which made the TR "lose" something so now your giving it back with Crit.
You need to remove combat advantage from mark and other abilities. This needs to stay as "attacking behind" the target and now stealth can give CA and be fine. Another idea is to give any encounters used within stealth get a reduced CD ontop of their added "stealth" effect.
3) Well actually all that pretty much fixes the issues. Everyone would do much less damage since everyone loses CA 100% uptime due to mark and I think some CW abilities. TR keeps its CA so by comparison TR will not lose as much damage. ALL abilities respect DR, this fixes things like SE and bloodbath, also losing 100% crit also fixes the issue.
DONE. Game balanced.
well storm spell is universal for that entire paragon regardless. i control people to death, but it's a lot slower than a wizard just proccing storm spell.
the control paths are just oppressor vs scoundrel. the person i quoted acts like a scoundrel stays invisible the entire fight when that is just wasting the entire feat path. it's possible but is just acting like an inferior sab/exe
agreed, although very few people agree with removing the 100% critical. everyone can keep their combat advantage, but piercing should just go.
Not if SE respects DR and Tenacity. Also chance of crit would be cut in half. Your also forgetting tenacity not only reduces damage but also crit damage as well.
So this one factor alone would easily cut damage of SE in half (on a crit).
Dont forget this daily NEEDS to provide CC immunity upon activation - not AFTER the cast time.
How about now I just played PVP as soon I attacked I'm dead already or 10 percent HP I could not even kill someone with BB even it a quarter health. Sab is useless now and exec you may kill one just pray the enemy dont have soul forge most of the TR right now turn into scoundrel the only viable option for us. Low damage at lease you can run around like clowns for a long period of time.
Yes, exactly that. This is now Trickster Clown.
Doesn't matter what forum stars will say, it won't change the fact that it's ridiculous to be Rogue with no stealth.
Asha-DC(Faithful-Anointed Champion)
Vilgefortz-CW(Thaumaturge-balance)
Thats petty much same thing occurs couple months ago that they trolled the GWF's unstoppable. Ask to nerf or even remove the main thing that class rely on.
A lot of TR players are sounding like Stealth is being taken away from the game... true?
Some TR players are sounding like once they attack and reveal from stealth "to the target only" they would just die... true? (Can't they dodge, roll, stealth again...?)
When TR are in steath, they are getting 100%cri/ combat advantage/ cri severity / feat multipler which makes their attack boosted by <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>% damage including the ability to ignore DR/Tenancity... true? Does that mean they can do a huge attack in stealth, roll away x 2~3 then re-stealth again.. then come back to do round 2 to finish their target...?
Am I not following or is it so hard to play a TR...?
Author of GWF Speed Demon PvP Build (Mod 11) <- Click to reveal the Speedy Beast! >:)
TR is very OP....against someone who stands still
Shocking Execution - up the base damage by 5%-15% and take away it's ability to ignore defense outright.
It already benefits from Armor Pen; if stacked well, it can also benefit from 100% crit, +60% damage (First Strike), +100% power and an additional +25% defense ignored for the Executioners, up to +50% more damage from Scoundrels via Skullcracker; why does it need to completely ignore defence in addition to that?
Shadowy Opportunity - either the damage needs to be lowered staggeringly hard (50-80%), or it needs to be based on a form of damage that is mitigated (like HR Piercing Blades).
Free procs of 1.5k - 4k with every hit from stealth that can't be resisted in any way, shape, or form is very strong, and downright insane when coupled with Bloodbath.
Gloaming Cut - many people have talked about reducing this, but I'm not really certain it needs one (from my own experiences at least). I have 5k power, a purple artifact weapon, 24 Str (blue belt), a lesser vorpal, and ignore 50% of resistance; I tend to hit around the 5k mark, usually less though. On targets that are nearly dead I hit closer to 10k, but that's a tooltip effect and not an issue with base damage.
With double my current power, two fully upgraded Artifact Weapons, an orange Str belt and a Perfect Vorpal I could see myself doing around the 10-12k mark. My concern is that (hypothetically) I've upgraded my build and paid the huge prices necessary/grinded like crazy to achieve that kind of damage, not to mention all the stats that will be lacking to make up for that kind of strength (I run a glass cannon build that could be choked to death with a cordless phone); shouldn't I be allowed to do that kind of damage with an At-Will that has no followup combo and a 1.5 second delay?
This isn't rhetorical, I'm asking the question. Perhaps I'm being completely unreasonable; I PuG exclusively and have no experience with end game PvP other than being whomped by premades. I also don't generally use Gloaming Cut (I seem to be one of the few people who actually likes Sly Flourish).
If it is, then perhaps a base damage decrease might be the way to go. That or remove its damage increase VS injured target.
As for the changes to stealth, I haven't had a chance to try it yet, but from what I've heard I doubt I'll like it.
You are following and it's super easy!
And with the new 2sec nerf it gets better!
People can now see you when you SS them from stealth, dazing them while you leap in the air performing that outstanding, mighty,skillful thing that's called Shocking Execution.
Before the stealth reveal only the Tr could enjoy that thrilling moment.Now you all can!You are actually able to see where that came from!! Ain't that awesome??!?!!?!
As for the dmg reduction of SE...
I saw a gwf getting a 58k crit a few hours ago.Without the nerf that would be 70K.that's a nerf (or it isn't, maybe it isn't, yeh sure it isn't)
Oh and something else, about the boosted tenacity. when you vs a TR, he actually has tenacity while you don't.
Can you figure out why??
Because his SE or any kind of piercing dmg he deals don't give a **** about your tenacity.
If your class also deals enormous piercing dmg ,well that dosen't change much since he can 1shot you and you can't, does it??
So guess what. The little invisible,annoying, piercing spammers got a boost! You didn't!
Or against someone that sprints around too
Author of GWF Speed Demon PvP Build (Mod 11) <- Click to reveal the Speedy Beast! >:)
hMMmmm... sounds like they buffed the already godly TR again...? hmm...... time to work on my lowbie TR i guess... firstly they are so cool, everyone talks about them, 2nd, they can one shot most of the players... seeing them or not the target is dying in 1~2 shots anyway... just what I need to play a fair game
Author of GWF Speed Demon PvP Build (Mod 11) <- Click to reveal the Speedy Beast! >:)
TR still have more nuke damage than other class and you can't call that balance