From what I have been reading this is what I am getting...
A lot of TR players are sounding like Stealth is being taken away from the game... true?
Some TR players are sounding like once they attack and reveal from stealth "to the target only" they would just die... true? (Can't they dodge, roll, stealth again...?)
When TR are in steath, they are getting 100%cri/ combat advantage/ cri severity / feat multipler which makes their attack boosted by <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>% damage including the ability to ignore DR/Tenancity... true? Does that mean they can do a huge attack in stealth, roll away x 2~3 then re-stealth again.. then come back to do round 2 to finish their target...?
Am I not following or is it so hard to play a TR...?
You are following and it's super easy!
And with the new 2sec nerf it gets better!
People can now see you when you SS them from stealth, dazing them while you leap in the air performing that outstanding, mighty,skillful thing that's called Shocking Execution.
Before the stealth reveal only the Tr could enjoy that thrilling moment.Now you all can!You are actually able to see where that came from!! Ain't that awesome??!?!!?!
As for the dmg reduction of SE...
I saw a gwf getting a 58k crit a few hours ago.Without the nerf that would be 70K.that's a nerf (or it isn't, maybe it isn't, yeh sure it isn't)
Oh and something else, about the boosted tenacity. when you vs a TR, he actually has tenacity while you don't.
Can you figure out why??
Because his SE or any kind of piercing dmg he deals don't give a **** about your tenacity.
If your class also deals enormous piercing dmg ,well that dosen't change much since he can 1shot you and you can't, does it??
So guess what. The little invisible,annoying, piercing spammers got a boost! You didn't!
0
icyphishMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,255Arc User
You are following and it's super easy!
And with the new 2sec nerf it gets better!
People can now see you when you SS them from stealth, dazing them while you leap in the air performing that outstanding, mighty,skillful thing that's called Shocking Execution.
Before the stealth reveal only the Tr could enjoy that thrilling moment.Now you all can!You are actually able to see where that came from!! Ain't that awesome??!?!!?!
As for the dmg reduction of SE...
I saw a gwf getting a 58k crit a few hours ago.Without the nerf that would be 70K.that's a nerf (or it isn't, maybe it isn't, yeh sure it isn't)
Oh and something else, about the boosted tenacity. when you vs a TR, he actually has tenacity while you don't.
Can you figure out why??
Because his SE or any kind of piercing dmg he deals don't give a **** about your tenacity.
If your class also deals enormous piercing dmg ,well that dosen't change much since he can 1shot you and you can't, does it??
So guess what. The little invisible,annoying, piercing spammers got a boost! You didn't!
hMMmmm... sounds like they buffed the already godly TR again...? hmm...... time to work on my lowbie TR i guess... firstly they are so cool, everyone talks about them, 2nd, they can one shot most of the players... seeing them or not the target is dying in 1~2 shots anyway... just what I need to play a fair game
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!" pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all." looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
I'm fine with removing guaranteed critical from stealth.
I think that simply change makes a huge difference.
Simple!
It will make practically zero difference to Scoundrels so all that will happen is that all PvP rogues will go Scoundrel and then we'll get even more ill-informed whining about 'permadaze' than we get now.
People are just so used to TRs being no threat whatsoever that they can't adapt and are just going to keep whining to cover up their lack of ability.
oh sure 4 secs, maybe better you could make it so if a TR hits you from stealth you can see him from the rest of the fight untill the pvp match is over. is that enough time for you to do somethiung about it?
It will make practically zero difference to Scoundrels so all that will happen is that all PvP rogues will go Scoundrel and then we'll get even more ill-informed whining about 'permadaze' than we get now.
People are just so used to TRs being no threat whatsoever that they can't adapt and are just going to keep whining to cover up their lack of ability.
as a gwf i am cool with scoundrels, but i dont rly think any other class is. On the other hand a sabo still ruins my day ....
And so i meet 90% of the time these kind of people who just exploit this broken class taking the OP tree, probably people who could not get one step into pvp with other classes.
The fact that now tenacity get more points effects all other classes not this OP-tenacity-ignoring TR, well done *******...must have took long time in logic thinking to come to this conclusion
there are many ways to get pvp back to normality...and they just make it worse
useless to go on discussing, because it will take to long to get heared, next mod probably the GF or WL gonna be the monsters in pvp, or who is next? I´m not playing for long this game.
Well first of all, TRs can go stealth, which buffs their attack by a LOT, their mobility is one of the best, if not the best, their deflect sev is 75% whereas all the others have 50%, they can ignore DR completely, their dodge aka roll has insane mobility as well as invincibility. I honestly don't see why they wouldn't be OP.
idk about you, but most people have methods to bypass deflect to an extent that it's silly to even mention it. proc-based damage and prones counter deflect easily. i just survive longer than most, but i can't hold a candle to a cleric out-healing everything and a guardian able to protect his back well enough while he never drops shield.
even a scoundrel with 70% run speed in stealth can be out-run by a warlock/gwf even if only temporarily but stealth is also very temporary as well so meh. other paths are stuck in the 15-45% range.
stealth reveal is here now and whether or not that kills off sabs is unknown to me but i have a feeling it does.
to be honest, i would rather have a shocking execution that was on-par with ice knife but can be resisted/deflected since that's a dps boost for pve. i still don't know why the devs gave executioner's 25% free armor pen. i get that we are assassins in a sense, but that should just be towards squishies.
as for our rolls, we actually wanted shorter rolls to stay in melee easier. the devs went and did this and now we can just auto-ignore the root on icy rays despite taking the damage (rolls are probably too long for the nigh-undodgeable root to work properly).
Well first of all, TRs can go stealth, which buffs their attack by a LOT, their mobility is one of the best, if not the best, their deflect sev is 75% whereas all the others have 50%, they can ignore DR completely, their dodge aka roll has insane mobility as well as invincibility. I honestly don't see why they wouldn't be OP.
And once again someone puts together all the abilities from all three feat trees into one uber-TR and screams OP. Fantastic. Would it kill people to actually do some research and learn about how TRs function before calling for nerfs?
No single TR can do all the things you list. One whole tree hardly uses stealth at all. Even with 75% severity deflect is worse than defense and HP. Their dodge is no more invincible than HR, CW, DC, GF block.
Try playing one. There are some OP features right now - that TRs warned about on Preview but devs did not address - but nowhere near as much as all the whining claims.
I have a Whisperknife Scoundrel and a Whisperknife Executioner, so I'm talking just for this two kinds of TRs.
My TRs are not OP at all. I get killed and a kill fairly. The difference is that now I can enjoy my character because of the smart changes they did.
The perma-stealth gives me anxiety as well, but I can't talk in name of saboteurs since I never played one.. but I think that the stealth nerf that makes you appear when you attack is fair enough, considering how much stealth attacking at-a-wills drains.
Right now I think that the TR is perfectly balanced with all of the other classes, where GF can resist to multiple attacks of entire parties and still be alive, where CW has deadly AoE and 1vs1 attacks and where DC are basically immortal.
The only classes I believe needs to be a little boost are HR, SW and not too much GWF.
lol ... some op features he mentioned, really sure in this point, u mean the TR´s playing PVP are not super talented players who all have kill/death ration like 16/0 because they are all pro player...
just went pvp, only difference is , now i can see how he finishes me, thanks to the 2 seconds cryptic, really cool this jump in the air before i ly on the ground,
wich of the "some Op features" is it? just want to know
just go in a domintation match and take a warlock, for example.. sure it will open your eyes
Everyone talking about bloodbath like the skill itself is too strong.
No whats making Blood bath so strong is that Shadow Opportunity is proccing off every strike of it.
Something thats been mentioned since before this mod went live and carried through. Besides that, nothing is wrong with Bloodbath at all.
I still dont like how long it makes someone visible when attacking from Stealth. Not every rogue is a gloaming cut spammer, I'm not a rogue that flails cloud of steel all day. The reveal should be shortened.
When the going gets tough, a MI TR's always have the backup plan of impossible to catch. Which makes them hard to deal with and counter during these permastealth set ups.
WK's just become further crippled by changes, cause no matter what. MI TR's have a some way of mitigating these changes.
Didn't pvp much after patch (busy with tiamat) but first games i did, at least in pug games TRs seemed to be more balanced. Normal k/d ratio, they were hitting people hard as it's supposed to be. Just seen most of them failing at understanding attack-defend logic as they kept attacking after reveal.
Didn't pvp much after patch (busy with tiamat) but first games i did, at least in pug games TRs seemed to be more balanced. Normal k/d ratio, they were hitting people hard as it's supposed to be. Just seen most of them failing at understanding attack-defend logic as they kept attacking after reveal.
There are many TRs who have never been anything but permastealth. These people have never developed 'normal' combat strategies and reflexes and may take a long time to adjust.
idk about you, but most people have methods to bypass deflect to an extent that it's silly to even mention it. proc-based damage and prones counter deflect easily. i just survive longer than most, but i can't hold a candle to a cleric out-healing everything and a guardian able to protect his back well enough while he never drops shield.
even a scoundrel with 70% run speed in stealth can be out-run by a warlock/gwf even if only temporarily but stealth is also very temporary as well so meh. other paths are stuck in the 15-45% range.
stealth reveal is here now and whether or not that kills off sabs is unknown to me but i have a feeling it does.
to be honest, i would rather have a shocking execution that was on-par with ice knife but can be resisted/deflected since that's a dps boost for pve. i still don't know why the devs gave executioner's 25% free armor pen. i get that we are assassins in a sense, but that should just be towards squishies.
as for our rolls, we actually wanted shorter rolls to stay in melee easier. the devs went and did this and now we can just auto-ignore the root on icy rays despite taking the damage (rolls are probably too long for the nigh-undodgeable root to work properly).
There is no way to by-pass deflection. Prone doesn't not by-pass deflection. the attack is still deflectied but not the cc duration. that is not by-passing deflection. Proc based attacks can still be deflected but it is easier to play a proc based class because you don't have to do as much. You know like scoundrels proccing daze? By-pass deflection would be, you know, not getting deflected at all.
sad thing is that scoundrel has the easiest time cc'ing people but their cc's duration cannot be deflected.
Thats not much of a problem to me. Its that thier daze is just a bit too long than I feel it should. It lasts longer than their actual dazing abilities.
Been completely disabled from Scoundrels without chance to do anything, with dazes stacked on top of dazes from the proc, a whole duelist flurry, a dazing strike, another duelist flurry and then a smoke bomb, then repeat.
They extended the procced daze just a tad too far after TR's going live from preview.
Didn't pvp much after patch (busy with tiamat) but first games i did, at least in pug games TRs seemed to be more balanced. Normal k/d ratio, they were hitting people hard as it's supposed to be. Just seen most of them failing at understanding attack-defend logic as they kept attacking after reveal.
I am glad you are finding it more balanced, and honest enough to say so
I suspect many TR's using the SAB tree will just go for an all out attack - kill or be killed approach. The SAB has no defence except stealth, so with the stealth reveal, limited defence, lack of movement speed as well for WK (regardless of the rubbish posted upon this forum this is true) if they want to attack in PVP their options are limited.
I am not saying this is wrong, or unbalanced, just pointing it out as a fact. So expect it, especially if you are a CW which easily one shots, one rotates SAB's - not to mention easily applied control effects because no immunity, again especially for WK - who again regardless of rubbish posted upon these forums do not have things like ITC
But again if the changes are feeling more balanced then they probably are, and that's a good thing imo
And I am glad at least one person is honest enough to say so
Dailies shouldn't be aviable in PVP if you ask me.
and damage in general should be lowered a lot in pvp too, like 50% less damage to all attacks and skills.
Let us have a uniform damage in pvp and a uniform defense problem solve! like everybody will have 100 damage each attack....
There is no way to by-pass deflection. Prone doesn't not by-pass deflection. the attack is still deflectied but not the cc duration. that is not by-passing deflection. Proc based attacks can still be deflected but it is easier to play a proc based class because you don't have to do as much. You know like scoundrels proccing daze? By-pass deflection would be, you know, not getting deflected at all.
What he means is that once proned deflection does not work at all. You still get DR from defence and tenacity but your deflect chance is zero until the prone ends.
Scoundrel daze procs are from crits only and have maximum 50% uptime assuming the TR crits every 5 seconds. Skullcracker (capstone) works from encounters only, is easy to waste, and is base 4 seconds every 15 seconds.
Thats not much of a problem to me. Its that thier daze is just a bit too long than I feel it should. It lasts longer than their actual dazing abilities.
Been completely disabled from Scoundrels without chance to do anything, with dazes stacked on top of dazes from the proc, a whole duelist flurry, a dazing strike, another duelist flurry and then a smoke bomb, then repeat.
They extended the procced daze just a tad too far after TR's going live from preview.
Dazes don't stack. At all.
A Scoundrel can proc one 2.5s daze every 5s from from crits only with Concussive Strikes. This is shorter than both Dazing Strike and Smokebomb as well as being a lot less reliable (dependent on rng). The daze from the capstone is base 4s which is around the same length of time as the dazing encounters, and can be extended to 6s if you hit fast enough.
The sequence you describe above most likely started with Skullcracker, otherwise you would have been out of daze before the first DF finished. So in fact that entire sequence did not involve CS having to proc at all. And you could move the whole time you were dazed.
As far as I know there was no extension to daze length from Preview to Live.
There is no way to by-pass deflection. Prone doesn't not by-pass deflection. the attack is still deflectied but not the cc duration. that is not by-passing deflection. Proc based attacks can still be deflected but it is easier to play a proc based class because you don't have to do as much. You know like scoundrels proccing daze? By-pass deflection would be, you know, not getting deflected at all.
storm spell completely bypasses deflection (i have never been hit for less than 12k and usually suffer 2 procs instantly).
assailant is the same as storm spell but is just a 3k or so proc
prones negate deflection (gf's can still hold people down for a while)
freeze also negates deflection (only downside is chill immunity but is the best moment to use ice knife)
fire of the gods i am not sure but it rips out half my hp bar
fury warlocks have enough procs to burn me down regardless
intimidation i am not sure since i don't like to have an upfront fight with gwf's but i can survive 2-5 of those at most i think depending on how hard they hit. have yet to see the 1-shot intimidation hits and quite frankly, i don't want to
oh and proccing dazes is inferior to playing a daze build. why? because our daze encounters have better cooldowns than our daze capstone. the other daze is random so no telling when it will proc.
ps: i was actually surprised about a video on the preview forums where someone posted a video of a rogue vs every class. the 1st wizard in that video almost outright killed the rogue in the 1st few seconds but couldn't proc his stuff again to finish it.
A Scoundrel can proc one 2.5s daze every 5s from from crits only with Concussive Strikes. This is shorter than both Dazing Strike and Smokebomb as well as being a lot less reliable (dependent on rng). The daze from the capstone is base 4s which is around the same length of time as the dazing encounters, and can be extended to 6s if you hit fast enough.
The sequence you describe above most likely started with Skullcracker, otherwise you would have been out of daze before the first DF finished. So in fact that entire sequence did not involve CS having to proc at all. And you could move the whole time you were dazed.
As far as I know there was no extension to daze length from Preview to Live.
There was a daze extention from skullcracker from preview to live before mod 5 came. Was extended by a whole second and half from the feat.
And when I said stack. I dont mean they combine times. But they can be dealt back to back making the total duration just crazy long of being disabled.
Kind of like CW's Ray of Frost before they put the freeze cooldown on it not too long ago in ToD. Where they just keep you frozen for eternity from just ray of frost. Kind of similar to that.
Comments
You are following and it's super easy!
And with the new 2sec nerf it gets better!
People can now see you when you SS them from stealth, dazing them while you leap in the air performing that outstanding, mighty,skillful thing that's called Shocking Execution.
Before the stealth reveal only the Tr could enjoy that thrilling moment.Now you all can!You are actually able to see where that came from!! Ain't that awesome??!?!!?!
As for the dmg reduction of SE...
I saw a gwf getting a 58k crit a few hours ago.Without the nerf that would be 70K.that's a nerf (or it isn't, maybe it isn't, yeh sure it isn't)
Oh and something else, about the boosted tenacity. when you vs a TR, he actually has tenacity while you don't.
Can you figure out why??
Because his SE or any kind of piercing dmg he deals don't give a **** about your tenacity.
If your class also deals enormous piercing dmg ,well that dosen't change much since he can 1shot you and you can't, does it??
So guess what. The little invisible,annoying, piercing spammers got a boost! You didn't!
Or against someone that sprints around too
Author of GWF Speed Demon PvP Build (Mod 11) <- Click to reveal the Speedy Beast! >:)
hMMmmm... sounds like they buffed the already godly TR again...? hmm...... time to work on my lowbie TR i guess... firstly they are so cool, everyone talks about them, 2nd, they can one shot most of the players... seeing them or not the target is dying in 1~2 shots anyway... just what I need to play a fair game
Author of GWF Speed Demon PvP Build (Mod 11) <- Click to reveal the Speedy Beast! >:)
TR still have more nuke damage than other class and you can't call that balance
I think that simply change makes a huge difference.
Simple!
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!"
pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all."
looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
People are just so used to TRs being no threat whatsoever that they can't adapt and are just going to keep whining to cover up their lack of ability.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
as a gwf i am cool with scoundrels, but i dont rly think any other class is. On the other hand a sabo still ruins my day ....
"Pimp" a poll for no stealth!
I'll vote yes :P
The fact that now tenacity get more points effects all other classes not this OP-tenacity-ignoring TR, well done *******...must have took long time in logic thinking to come to this conclusion
there are many ways to get pvp back to normality...and they just make it worse
useless to go on discussing, because it will take to long to get heared, next mod probably the GF or WL gonna be the monsters in pvp, or who is next? I´m not playing for long this game.
idk about you, but most people have methods to bypass deflect to an extent that it's silly to even mention it. proc-based damage and prones counter deflect easily. i just survive longer than most, but i can't hold a candle to a cleric out-healing everything and a guardian able to protect his back well enough while he never drops shield.
even a scoundrel with 70% run speed in stealth can be out-run by a warlock/gwf even if only temporarily but stealth is also very temporary as well so meh. other paths are stuck in the 15-45% range.
stealth reveal is here now and whether or not that kills off sabs is unknown to me but i have a feeling it does.
to be honest, i would rather have a shocking execution that was on-par with ice knife but can be resisted/deflected since that's a dps boost for pve. i still don't know why the devs gave executioner's 25% free armor pen. i get that we are assassins in a sense, but that should just be towards squishies.
as for our rolls, we actually wanted shorter rolls to stay in melee easier. the devs went and did this and now we can just auto-ignore the root on icy rays despite taking the damage (rolls are probably too long for the nigh-undodgeable root to work properly).
No single TR can do all the things you list. One whole tree hardly uses stealth at all. Even with 75% severity deflect is worse than defense and HP. Their dodge is no more invincible than HR, CW, DC, GF block.
Try playing one. There are some OP features right now - that TRs warned about on Preview but devs did not address - but nowhere near as much as all the whining claims.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
My TRs are not OP at all. I get killed and a kill fairly. The difference is that now I can enjoy my character because of the smart changes they did.
The perma-stealth gives me anxiety as well, but I can't talk in name of saboteurs since I never played one.. but I think that the stealth nerf that makes you appear when you attack is fair enough, considering how much stealth attacking at-a-wills drains.
Right now I think that the TR is perfectly balanced with all of the other classes, where GF can resist to multiple attacks of entire parties and still be alive, where CW has deadly AoE and 1vs1 attacks and where DC are basically immortal.
The only classes I believe needs to be a little boost are HR, SW and not too much GWF.
~ Adam | Trickster Rogue | Master Infiltrator Saboteur
~ Essence | Hunter Ranger | Pathfinder Trapper
~ Veyl | Scourge Warlock | Soulbinder Fury
~ Abel | Trickster Rogue | Master Infiltrator Executioner
Waiting for DRUID and MONK!
just went pvp, only difference is , now i can see how he finishes me, thanks to the 2 seconds cryptic, really cool this jump in the air before i ly on the ground,
wich of the "some Op features" is it? just want to know
just go in a domintation match and take a warlock, for example.. sure it will open your eyes
No whats making Blood bath so strong is that Shadow Opportunity is proccing off every strike of it.
Something thats been mentioned since before this mod went live and carried through. Besides that, nothing is wrong with Bloodbath at all.
I still dont like how long it makes someone visible when attacking from Stealth. Not every rogue is a gloaming cut spammer, I'm not a rogue that flails cloud of steel all day. The reveal should be shortened.
When the going gets tough, a MI TR's always have the backup plan of impossible to catch. Which makes them hard to deal with and counter during these permastealth set ups.
WK's just become further crippled by changes, cause no matter what. MI TR's have a some way of mitigating these changes.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
There is no way to by-pass deflection. Prone doesn't not by-pass deflection. the attack is still deflectied but not the cc duration. that is not by-passing deflection. Proc based attacks can still be deflected but it is easier to play a proc based class because you don't have to do as much. You know like scoundrels proccing daze? By-pass deflection would be, you know, not getting deflected at all.
Thats not much of a problem to me. Its that thier daze is just a bit too long than I feel it should. It lasts longer than their actual dazing abilities.
Been completely disabled from Scoundrels without chance to do anything, with dazes stacked on top of dazes from the proc, a whole duelist flurry, a dazing strike, another duelist flurry and then a smoke bomb, then repeat.
They extended the procced daze just a tad too far after TR's going live from preview.
I am glad you are finding it more balanced, and honest enough to say so
I suspect many TR's using the SAB tree will just go for an all out attack - kill or be killed approach. The SAB has no defence except stealth, so with the stealth reveal, limited defence, lack of movement speed as well for WK (regardless of the rubbish posted upon this forum this is true) if they want to attack in PVP their options are limited.
I am not saying this is wrong, or unbalanced, just pointing it out as a fact. So expect it, especially if you are a CW which easily one shots, one rotates SAB's - not to mention easily applied control effects because no immunity, again especially for WK - who again regardless of rubbish posted upon these forums do not have things like ITC
But again if the changes are feeling more balanced then they probably are, and that's a good thing imo
And I am glad at least one person is honest enough to say so
All the best
Matthew
Let us have a uniform damage in pvp and a uniform defense problem solve! like everybody will have 100 damage each attack....
Scoundrel daze procs are from crits only and have maximum 50% uptime assuming the TR crits every 5 seconds. Skullcracker (capstone) works from encounters only, is easy to waste, and is base 4 seconds every 15 seconds.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
A Scoundrel can proc one 2.5s daze every 5s from from crits only with Concussive Strikes. This is shorter than both Dazing Strike and Smokebomb as well as being a lot less reliable (dependent on rng). The daze from the capstone is base 4s which is around the same length of time as the dazing encounters, and can be extended to 6s if you hit fast enough.
The sequence you describe above most likely started with Skullcracker, otherwise you would have been out of daze before the first DF finished. So in fact that entire sequence did not involve CS having to proc at all. And you could move the whole time you were dazed.
As far as I know there was no extension to daze length from Preview to Live.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
oh and proccing dazes is inferior to playing a daze build. why? because our daze encounters have better cooldowns than our daze capstone. the other daze is random so no telling when it will proc.
ps: i was actually surprised about a video on the preview forums where someone posted a video of a rogue vs every class. the 1st wizard in that video almost outright killed the rogue in the 1st few seconds but couldn't proc his stuff again to finish it.
There was a daze extention from skullcracker from preview to live before mod 5 came. Was extended by a whole second and half from the feat.
And when I said stack. I dont mean they combine times. But they can be dealt back to back making the total duration just crazy long of being disabled.
Kind of like CW's Ray of Frost before they put the freeze cooldown on it not too long ago in ToD. Where they just keep you frozen for eternity from just ray of frost. Kind of similar to that.