Hey guys, we are making a couple changes to Rogues to improve Execution gameplay and improve the value of Dexterity slightly.
Trickster Rogue: Shadow of Deminse: This feat no longer requires you to use an encounter power to apply. It may be applied to several targets again. Passively increases stealth regen by 20% and prevents regeneration being stopped.
Trickster Rogue: Shadowy Opportunity: Now correctly activates with ranks in this feat, rather than ranks in Ambusher's Haste.
Master Infiltrator: Shocking Execution: Damage increased by 240% but no longer scales with target health.
Master Infiltrator: Shocking Exection: *REWORK*: If you strike a target below 20% HP this daily refunds 100% of the AP used to cast it. This effect can only be triggered once before the Daily will consume AP. Ranking this power up will increase that Health Threshold by 5% each rank.
Trickster Rogue: Dexterity: Rogues now get an additional .5% deflect chance per point of Dex for a total of 1% for each point past 10.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
[*]Master Infiltrator: Shocking Execution: Damage increased by 240% but no longer scales with target health.
[*]Master Infiltrator: Shocking Exection: *REWORK*: If you strike a target below 20% HP this daily refunds 100% of the AP used to cast it. This effect can only be triggered once before the Daily will consume AP. Ranking this power up will increase that Health Threshold by 5% each rank.
[/LIST]
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
Hey guys, we are making a couple changes to Rogues to improve Execution gameplay and improve the value of Dexterity slightly.
Trickster Rogue: Shadow of Deminse: This feat no longer requires you to use an encounter power to apply. It may be applied to several targets again. Passively increases stealth regen by 20% and prevents regeneration being stopped.
Trickster Rogue: Shadowy Opportunity: Now correctly activates with ranks in this feat, rather than ranks in Ambusher's Haste.
Master Infiltrator: Shocking Execution: Damage increased by 240% but no longer scales with target health.
Master Infiltrator: Shocking Exection: *REWORK*: If you strike a target below 20% HP this daily refunds 100% of the AP used to cast it. This effect can only be triggered once before the Daily will consume AP. Ranking this power up will increase that Health Threshold by 5% each rank.
Trickster Rogue: Dexterity: Rogues now get an additional .5% deflect chance per point of Dex for a total of 1% for each point past 10.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
Thanks Crush, looking forward to testing these changes. Any chance they can go on preview sooner than Friday? We are getting really close to Mod 5 launch and want to make sure we have time to test them completely. Or are you still going to tweak once Mod 5 launches?
Atleast stick a cooldown on shocking execution like HR's have on dailys, otherwise people will be seeing back to back 25k hits again, AND its completely undodgable, like... please what are you thinking
Hey guys, we are making a couple changes to Rogues to improve Execution gameplay and improve the value of Dexterity slightly.
Trickster Rogue: Shadow of Deminse: This feat no longer requires you to use an encounter power to apply. It may be applied to several targets again. Passively increases stealth regen by 20% and prevents regeneration being stopped.
Trickster Rogue: Shadowy Opportunity: Now correctly activates with ranks in this feat, rather than ranks in Ambusher's Haste.
Master Infiltrator: Shocking Execution: Damage increased by 240% but no longer scales with target health.
Master Infiltrator: Shocking Exection: *REWORK*: If you strike a target below 20% HP this daily refunds 100% of the AP used to cast it. This effect can only be triggered once before the Daily will consume AP. Ranking this power up will increase that Health Threshold by 5% each rank.
Trickster Rogue: Dexterity: Rogues now get an additional .5% deflect chance per point of Dex for a total of 1% for each point past 10.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
Very, very good changes! At last shocking execution will be usable again
Tairev-TR(All kind of killing tools) Asha-DC(Faithful-Anointed Champion) Vilgefortz-CW(Thaumaturge-balance)
Hey guys, we are making a couple changes to Rogues to improve Execution gameplay and improve the value of Dexterity slightly.
Trickster Rogue: Shadow of Deminse: This feat no longer requires you to use an encounter power to apply. It may be applied to several targets again. Passively increases stealth regen by 20% and prevents regeneration being stopped.
Trickster Rogue: Shadowy Opportunity: Now correctly activates with ranks in this feat, rather than ranks in Ambusher's Haste.
Master Infiltrator: Shocking Execution: Damage increased by 240% but no longer scales with target health.
Master Infiltrator: Shocking Exection: *REWORK*: If you strike a target below 20% HP this daily refunds 100% of the AP used to cast it. This effect can only be triggered once before the Daily will consume AP. Ranking this power up will increase that Health Threshold by 5% each rank.
Trickster Rogue: Dexterity: Rogues now get an additional .5% deflect chance per point of Dex for a total of 1% for each point past 10.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
lol of course...
WhisperKnife and Master Infiltrator were FINALLYequal
Hey guys, we are making a couple changes to Rogues to improve Execution gameplay and improve the value of Dexterity slightly.
Trickster Rogue: Shadow of Deminse: This feat no longer requires you to use an encounter power to apply. It may be applied to several targets again. Passively increases stealth regen by 20% and prevents regeneration being stopped.
Trickster Rogue: Shadowy Opportunity: Now correctly activates with ranks in this feat, rather than ranks in Ambusher's Haste.
Master Infiltrator: Shocking Execution: Damage increased by 240% but no longer scales with target health.
Master Infiltrator: Shocking Exection: *REWORK*: If you strike a target below 20% HP this daily refunds 100% of the AP used to cast it. This effect can only be triggered once before the Daily will consume AP. Ranking this power up will increase that Health Threshold by 5% each rank.
Trickster Rogue: Dexterity: Rogues now get an additional .5% deflect chance per point of Dex for a total of 1% for each point past 10.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
boom. clap clap
pve executioner tr is now a thing....more than a thing... 0.0 i may be playing in pvp too 0.0
shadow of demise probably ( i m quite sure ) needs a way higher internal cooldown: something like 10-12 sec should be enough to avoid hard abusing
@pandora: whisper knife still have a dot hitting for 30k+ (20k+ in pvp) and a prone. i would kill for it.
we are now the only thing that can kill an hr once for all, i like it.
this or a big intimidation crit XD
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mojoratMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 90
I am well aware of that feature... Can you please show me another skill in the game that works the way you're suggesting? I haven't found any that mention weapon damage in the skill description and work in a similar way. Please ensure that it is not a DoT or AoE, thank you kindly.
Well we know that Piercing damage is not supposed to be large amounts, its supposed to be an extra amount that gets through. Im basing this view on how It was explained for the Hr (the buggy OP version of Hr's piercing blade is not relevant, im simply stating how the intent was explained)
So within that view, geting an extra 500 to 1k damage per hit through any resistance fits in that model. Or look at it this way, in PVP hiting a guy 3 times and geting an extra 1500-3k unresisable damage is a nice bonus but not op. Hiting him for an extra 12k unresistable damage (33% to 50% of alot of players hps) likely is.
People need to chill and stop attacking other players any time they indicate something might not be working as intended. The thing I dont want (and assume alot of other players do not want) is for TR to go live only to realize that we are the Next OMGWTFPWN class. Why? because the Devs have demonstrated int he past that given enough feedback they can do an okay job of balacing things Given enough time. If they make decisions rapidly to fix a percieved issue, They will over compensate.
All i can go on is how the Dev's have explained the intent for each of the Feat paths is, and go from there. However, given they rarerespond to Player questions, its difficult to get clarification.
Ultimately, this is what I want to know.
Feedback
1) is the interaction between Knife's edge and Bloodbath working as intended. I am actually assuming that it is not a bug (in the sense of code working imporerly) but the existing mechanical design of bloodbath working in an unplanned manner. My Opinion is as it is now a daily we get at level 1 + a tier 1 feat every TR can take having every power resetting is probly problematic. Because it will result in balance issues in pvp.
2)What is the actual intent of the Sabateur feat that grants 75% weapon damage as piercing damage. Is it intended to benefit from every damage modifier we have or be a flat damage? I have two concerns here, 1) IF it is intended to benefit from damage mods, this runs the risk of making them better burst damage than executioners (this opinion is based on feeling, i havent run ACt to test this) and 2) it potentially puts us in the position that HR are in now with everyone screaming for a Nerf.
Ultimately, I want TR in the best place they can be in PVE and to me at least, the current Test builds suggest Saboteur and Scoundrel are close to that position. The big issue is Executioner. I think it suffers from two issues. 1) Burst damage is not that great a concept for PVE, 2) unlike Saboteur (stealth) and Scoundrel (short amounts of control) Exectioner doesnt come with any built in survival mechanism. It has non modified stealth, and non modified control. both of which are on the weak side.
I honestly think execitioner should be looked at to have more of its powers trigger off of Combat Advantage rather than stealth, this will alow it better sustained DPS without running into Doing so much burst damage people cry for nerfs. Another option is If Devs do not want to lower Lashing blade's cooldown put a feat in 3rd or 4rth tear for execitioner that does so. Cutting LB's duration in half might help alot but not actually change burst issues.
Edit Apparently while i was typing Gentlemen crush added some stuff, none of it was taken into account with my above statements.
As far as i know they upgraded already whisper knife daily by a lot comparing to last module. And following pattern of desper exaggerating it is overpowered for some time now. I am wondering when people who play ranged class will understand that melee class has harder to hits target and it is normal they should have better damage.
Tairev-TR(All kind of killing tools) Asha-DC(Faithful-Anointed Champion) Vilgefortz-CW(Thaumaturge-balance)
shadowy opportunity will never be like piercing blade for 3 reasons:
1) if used with an encounter: you no more are in stealth ---> no piercing
2) if used with at will ----> 3 proc no more stealth ---> no piercing
3) if used with gloaming cut ---> in pvp is unlikely to hit more than 1 time every 5-6 second and the upper limit is stamina needed for the dodge after it. In pve the limit is long animation and the need to dodge red area and you dont have any aoe tools to proc it unlike HR ( clear the ground to name one)
ranger instead can just spam it and proc it in different ways
Feedback:
Disheartening Strike is way to strong against CWs. Using it ONCE from stealth so it crits takes away 50% of my HP (42k HP).
My CW:
HP: 42000
Defense: 2583
Deflect: 866
Regen: 1869
Lifesteal: 1667
Tenacity: 18%
Shield on TABB
All 10s and legendary including weapon and the new offhand with all the boons.
No companions are used in the fight.
So the fights starts. The TR goes stealth directly and uses Disheartening Strike once then he runs out of my reach and stays away until the ticks from the at-will is done, by that time I've lost 50% of my HP. Then he comes back and does it again and walks away watching me die.
I cant really do anything about it. I use stealtime, icy terrain, icy rays and shield on TABB but that wont save me because both stealtime and icy terrain is for close combat and the TR just runs away, its easy to avoid someone when he cant see you. Even if I get lucky and do hit them with stealtime, the stealth is only gone for like 0.5 seconds - no time to hit them with anything else, even with the 40% casting time on Icy rays.
As you can understand, fighting TRs wont be any fun at all for CWs. I don't know about other classes but I think others will have trouble too with this setup. No fight with 100% gear and enchants should end within seconds and definitely not by only using an at-will two times.
I would go so far and not call it a fight at all.
[PMvsPM] Flying Sword 9@: sicarius, how do you do against cw?
[PMvsPM] Sicarius 3@: It's not a fair fight
[PMvsPM] Julia@: CW eZ pZ
[PMvsPM] Flying Sword 9@: who wins?
[PMvsPM] Sicarius 3@: Truly
[PMvsPM] Sicarius 3@: They are dazed 50% of the time
[PMvsPM] Sicarius 3@: and im in stealth 100% of the time
Nice, my feedback about getting faster activation time for TRs got deleted. (because i mentioned that CWs got it and we could really use one too? I dunno.)
I appreciate the attention to the value of dexterity and the upgrade in deflection provided by it. While it still will not be the primary stat for a TR, at least I will not feel like the starting points were entirely wasted and I am pleased enough.
Feedback: Sneak Attack
This is the first Class Feature available to the TR, but it is not even able to be used until level 10 (requires stealth). Could you possibly change places with First Strike or Tactics so that beginning TR could make use of their first Class Feature -- that or add something to it that works outside of stealth to provide a bit of value to it.
Atleast stick a cooldown on shocking execution like HR's have on dailys, otherwise people will be seeing back to back 25k hits again, AND its completely undodgable, like... please what are you thinking
It's actually dodgable now, but 240% dmg increase would lead to some insane dmg, not to mention it could be used twice in a row (or even 3 times with DC artifact).
I think that's enough of a statement about this, really. What you described basically works the way they did the whole 15% stealth drain on at-wills to avoid: Giving TRs the ability to stay safe while allowing a steady stream of damage to tick. The boost to Disheartening Strike basically just gives them that ability, but requiring fewer shots.
It really sounds like this needs a nerf, and fast.
They should just nerf all dots in pvp.
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
Hey guys, we are making a couple changes to Rogues to improve Execution gameplay and improve the value of Dexterity slightly.
Trickster Rogue: Shadow of Deminse: This feat no longer requires you to use an encounter power to apply. It may be applied to several targets again. Passively increases stealth regen by 20% and prevents regeneration being stopped.
Trickster Rogue: Shadowy Opportunity: Now correctly activates with ranks in this feat, rather than ranks in Ambusher's Haste.
Master Infiltrator: Shocking Execution: Damage increased by 240% but no longer scales with target health.
Master Infiltrator: Shocking Exection: *REWORK*: If you strike a target below 20% HP this daily refunds 100% of the AP used to cast it. This effect can only be triggered once before the Daily will consume AP. Ranking this power up will increase that Health Threshold by 5% each rank.
Trickster Rogue: Dexterity: Rogues now get an additional .5% deflect chance per point of Dex for a total of 1% for each point past 10.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
You gotta be kidding me lol. You're not balancing, you're imbalancing everything, all the time.
Not a single change, for any of the classes, was inspired.
shadowy opportunity will never be like piercing blade for 3 reasons:
1) if used with an encounter: you no more are in stealth ---> no piercing
2) if used with at will ----> 3 proc no more stealth ---> no piercing
3) if used with gloaming cut ---> in pvp is unlikely to hit more than 1 time every 5-6 second and the upper limit is stamina needed for the dodge after it. In pve the limit is long animation and the need to dodge red area and you dont have any aoe tools to proc it unlike HR ( clear the ground to name one)
ranger instead can just spam it and proc it in different ways
Agree with all of this, but you failed to point out how shadowy opportunity interacts with blood bath. This, I think is the main concern with shadowy opportunity. With auto-crit blood bath already got a good, appropriate boost to damage. Considering this daily auto-targets and provides damage immunity for a short time, it is already a great utility daily. After testing, I found that SO only procs with courage breaker one time, even though that daily hits thrice. It procs with BB 10 times.
With invisible infiltrator slotted I have done max damage with Blood bath on a single target in PVE at 76k + 27k shadowy opportunity. Now in PVP damage figures are different with tenacity, DR, deflection, ect. Nevertheless, I think Shadow opportunity proccing from BB 10 times is too much, and that the feat should proc once at the start of the daily. I don't think shadowy opportunity is over-powered, and I don't think BB is either, and I would hate to see either one of them modified at the base level just because of their specific interaction.
For all of those reading the up-date to SE and saying "OP!!" you probably failed to notice that SE respects dodges now (that's on page 1 btw), and any other source of damage immunity........ and it has a painfully slow activation time, so stop frothing at the mouth and sit down.
If you are a CW and came to the TR feedback thread to complain about how rogues are killing you, I'd say tough luck. Skilled, geared, TRs are going to eat CWs alive after M5 hits. However, as far as I've seen that's not true of any of the other 5 classes in question, with maybe SW in a similar boat as CW, but they can run plenty fast. If your basing your perspective of class balance on the top 5% of the TR population with BIS gear in combat dynamics between CW and TR then I shouldn't even need to tell you that YOUR perspective is skewed. A new 12k TR without a vorp enchant is going to find themselves a very small fish in a very big pond.
The TR class is one with high levels of CC immunity and targeting evasion beyond melee range. The CW class is one which their defense is a strong offense, namely CC and range. CW vs TR will NEVER be a fair fight unless...... #1 The TR class has unnaturally weak levels of damage to compete against other classes. #2 The skill-cap difference between auto-targeting from range and melee-range powers comes into play. I'm not saying CWs take no skills to play. I'm saying Bad CW vs Bad TR = CW win, Good TR vs Good CW = TR win.
TR is finally getting a bit of usable CC and Burst back, at the cost of riskier combat maneuvers. So some people are going to have to pull up their britches and put their big-boy pants on. If you want to complain about a auto-tracking range at-will DOT ticking for too much, or a feat dealing too much damage, that's fine. However, keep in mind ALL combat situations that nerfs would affect besides just YOU. If you are not educated enough on TR combat situations vs various classes and PVE scenarios to give accurate, encompassing feedback, then kindly express your concerns and butt out.
Personally, my perspective on PVP balance of the TR class is that the top 5% of TRs are going to murder pugs and CWs, to a degree more noticeable than other classes. The TR class is still going to be one of the harsher and un-forgiving classes at the beginner and low gear level, in terms of COMBAT. Frankly, we could have hoped for better for stealth as a PVP issue being resolved, but at this point the die is cast. A lot of those issues might be resolved by gameplay types, the way match-ups are created......etc, but that's another animal.
P.S. + .5 deflection per point of dex is certainly not enough to make it worthy of a rogue's main attribute. With auto-crit from stealth the benefits from crit % is very dependent on build and combat rotations, and that makes dex very weak as a main attribute.
I agree to a nerf on Disheartening Strike -- IF, all other bullshi* passive stuff like procs and DoTs in the game are nerfed down globally. INCLUDING certain CW procs. If not, then no way.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Hey guys, we are making a couple changes to Rogues to improve Execution gameplay and improve the value of Dexterity slightly.
Trickster Rogue: Shadow of Deminse: This feat no longer requires you to use an encounter power to apply. It may be applied to several targets again. Passively increases stealth regen by 20% and prevents regeneration being stopped.
Trickster Rogue: Shadowy Opportunity: Now correctly activates with ranks in this feat, rather than ranks in Ambusher's Haste.
Master Infiltrator: Shocking Execution: Damage increased by 240% but no longer scales with target health.
Master Infiltrator: Shocking Exection: *REWORK*: If you strike a target below 20% HP this daily refunds 100% of the AP used to cast it. This effect can only be triggered once before the Daily will consume AP. Ranking this power up will increase that Health Threshold by 5% each rank.
Trickster Rogue: Dexterity: Rogues now get an additional .5% deflect chance per point of Dex for a total of 1% for each point past 10.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
so i should put 3 points back in shocking execution? might finally be worth it in pve but i do still remember it being countered 5 times in a row in pvp so i am not gonna bother using it there.
also, i get 8.5% deflect so that should put me above 60% deflect without any procs and 70-80% deflect if either of the deflect feats are active. i am satisfied with the deflect build now although i do still think the tier 1 feats should be doubled in the scoundrel tree. (possibly even replacing 1 of the life-steal feats)
by the way, is the speed bonus from skullcracker always active even after using an encounter? it kinda seems like it but i am not complaining
For the most, part, yes, there are a lot of overpowered dot effects around in PvP that should be nerfed or adjusted -- on HRs in particular, but also CWs (where Storm Fury seems a more pressing issue to fix in terms of overpowered passive damage nonsense). This one looks to be running directly counter to their mission statement for TRs in the module 5 changes, though.
Suggesting to nerf a at-will which is arguably the single most defining feature of an entire paragon path just because of it's combat dynamics with one other class is hardly a compelling or fair demand. Don't get me wrong, I frown upon ranged stealth builds and auto-proccing passive damage too. But we are talking about a paragon specific at-will power, not a feat like deep gash or warped magics. You don't just ask for a nerf, you ask for a balanced change that lets it remain viable in other situations and against other classes.
Hey guys, we are making a couple changes to Rogues to improve Execution gameplay and improve the value of Dexterity slightly.
Trickster Rogue: Shadow of Deminse: This feat no longer requires you to use an encounter power to apply. It may be applied to several targets again. Passively increases stealth regen by 20% and prevents regeneration being stopped.
Trickster Rogue: Shadowy Opportunity: Now correctly activates with ranks in this feat, rather than ranks in Ambusher's Haste.
Master Infiltrator: Shocking Execution: Damage increased by 240% but no longer scales with target health.
Master Infiltrator: Shocking Exection: *REWORK*: If you strike a target below 20% HP this daily refunds 100% of the AP used to cast it. This effect can only be triggered once before the Daily will consume AP. Ranking this power up will increase that Health Threshold by 5% each rank.
Trickster Rogue: Dexterity: Rogues now get an additional .5% deflect chance per point of Dex for a total of 1% for each point past 10.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
Awesome!
Bait and Switch: Is not pulling aggro very well and could use a bit more taunt.
Comments
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
LOL GG WP Soulforged
Thanks Crush, looking forward to testing these changes. Any chance they can go on preview sooner than Friday? We are getting really close to Mod 5 launch and want to make sure we have time to test them completely. Or are you still going to tweak once Mod 5 launches?
Thanks again
Very, very good changes! At last shocking execution will be usable again
Asha-DC(Faithful-Anointed Champion)
Vilgefortz-CW(Thaumaturge-balance)
lol of course...
WhisperKnife and Master Infiltrator were FINALLY equal
And this change comes.
I'm done xD
boom. clap clap
pve executioner tr is now a thing....more than a thing... 0.0 i may be playing in pvp too 0.0
shadow of demise probably ( i m quite sure ) needs a way higher internal cooldown: something like 10-12 sec should be enough to avoid hard abusing
@pandora: whisper knife still have a dot hitting for 30k+ (20k+ in pvp) and a prone. i would kill for it.
we are now the only thing that can kill an hr once for all, i like it.
this or a big intimidation crit XD
Well we know that Piercing damage is not supposed to be large amounts, its supposed to be an extra amount that gets through. Im basing this view on how It was explained for the Hr (the buggy OP version of Hr's piercing blade is not relevant, im simply stating how the intent was explained)
So within that view, geting an extra 500 to 1k damage per hit through any resistance fits in that model. Or look at it this way, in PVP hiting a guy 3 times and geting an extra 1500-3k unresisable damage is a nice bonus but not op. Hiting him for an extra 12k unresistable damage (33% to 50% of alot of players hps) likely is.
People need to chill and stop attacking other players any time they indicate something might not be working as intended. The thing I dont want (and assume alot of other players do not want) is for TR to go live only to realize that we are the Next OMGWTFPWN class. Why? because the Devs have demonstrated int he past that given enough feedback they can do an okay job of balacing things Given enough time. If they make decisions rapidly to fix a percieved issue, They will over compensate.
All i can go on is how the Dev's have explained the intent for each of the Feat paths is, and go from there. However, given they rarerespond to Player questions, its difficult to get clarification.
Ultimately, this is what I want to know.
Feedback
1) is the interaction between Knife's edge and Bloodbath working as intended. I am actually assuming that it is not a bug (in the sense of code working imporerly) but the existing mechanical design of bloodbath working in an unplanned manner. My Opinion is as it is now a daily we get at level 1 + a tier 1 feat every TR can take having every power resetting is probly problematic. Because it will result in balance issues in pvp.
2)What is the actual intent of the Sabateur feat that grants 75% weapon damage as piercing damage. Is it intended to benefit from every damage modifier we have or be a flat damage? I have two concerns here, 1) IF it is intended to benefit from damage mods, this runs the risk of making them better burst damage than executioners (this opinion is based on feeling, i havent run ACt to test this) and 2) it potentially puts us in the position that HR are in now with everyone screaming for a Nerf.
Ultimately, I want TR in the best place they can be in PVE and to me at least, the current Test builds suggest Saboteur and Scoundrel are close to that position. The big issue is Executioner. I think it suffers from two issues. 1) Burst damage is not that great a concept for PVE, 2) unlike Saboteur (stealth) and Scoundrel (short amounts of control) Exectioner doesnt come with any built in survival mechanism. It has non modified stealth, and non modified control. both of which are on the weak side.
I honestly think execitioner should be looked at to have more of its powers trigger off of Combat Advantage rather than stealth, this will alow it better sustained DPS without running into Doing so much burst damage people cry for nerfs. Another option is If Devs do not want to lower Lashing blade's cooldown put a feat in 3rd or 4rth tear for execitioner that does so. Cutting LB's duration in half might help alot but not actually change burst issues.
Edit Apparently while i was typing Gentlemen crush added some stuff, none of it was taken into account with my above statements.
Since you made Shocking Execution Overpowered. Have this change happen.
Hateful Knives: Now only consumes 50% of AP.
This will make both paragon dailies on par.
Asha-DC(Faithful-Anointed Champion)
Vilgefortz-CW(Thaumaturge-balance)
1) if used with an encounter: you no more are in stealth ---> no piercing
2) if used with at will ----> 3 proc no more stealth ---> no piercing
3) if used with gloaming cut ---> in pvp is unlikely to hit more than 1 time every 5-6 second and the upper limit is stamina needed for the dodge after it. In pve the limit is long animation and the need to dodge red area and you dont have any aoe tools to proc it unlike HR ( clear the ground to name one)
ranger instead can just spam it and proc it in different ways
Disheartening Strike is way to strong against CWs. Using it ONCE from stealth so it crits takes away 50% of my HP (42k HP).
My CW:
HP: 42000
Defense: 2583
Deflect: 866
Regen: 1869
Lifesteal: 1667
Tenacity: 18%
Shield on TABB
All 10s and legendary including weapon and the new offhand with all the boons.
No companions are used in the fight.
So the fights starts. The TR goes stealth directly and uses Disheartening Strike once then he runs out of my reach and stays away until the ticks from the at-will is done, by that time I've lost 50% of my HP. Then he comes back and does it again and walks away watching me die.
I cant really do anything about it. I use stealtime, icy terrain, icy rays and shield on TABB but that wont save me because both stealtime and icy terrain is for close combat and the TR just runs away, its easy to avoid someone when he cant see you. Even if I get lucky and do hit them with stealtime, the stealth is only gone for like 0.5 seconds - no time to hit them with anything else, even with the 40% casting time on Icy rays.
As you can understand, fighting TRs wont be any fun at all for CWs. I don't know about other classes but I think others will have trouble too with this setup. No fight with 100% gear and enchants should end within seconds and definitely not by only using an at-will two times.
I would go so far and not call it a fight at all.
[PMvsPM] Flying Sword 9@: sicarius, how do you do against cw?
[PMvsPM] Sicarius 3@: It's not a fair fight
[PMvsPM] Julia@: CW eZ pZ
[PMvsPM] Flying Sword 9@: who wins?
[PMvsPM] Sicarius 3@: Truly
[PMvsPM] Sicarius 3@: They are dazed 50% of the time
[PMvsPM] Sicarius 3@: and im in stealth 100% of the time
We are always looking for new models --- Borderline Fashiondolls ---
BlackberryCheesecake CW
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
CheeseCake House
I`m done with it then, gl hf.
I appreciate the attention to the value of dexterity and the upgrade in deflection provided by it. While it still will not be the primary stat for a TR, at least I will not feel like the starting points were entirely wasted and I am pleased enough.
Feedback: Sneak Attack
This is the first Class Feature available to the TR, but it is not even able to be used until level 10 (requires stealth). Could you possibly change places with First Strike or Tactics so that beginning TR could make use of their first Class Feature -- that or add something to it that works outside of stealth to provide a bit of value to it.
It's actually dodgable now, but 240% dmg increase would lead to some insane dmg, not to mention it could be used twice in a row (or even 3 times with DC artifact).
Mod 12.5 PvP Power/Crit/Arp Optimization
Youtube channel (PvE/PvP)
They should just nerf all dots in pvp.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
You gotta be kidding me lol. You're not balancing, you're imbalancing everything, all the time.
Not a single change, for any of the classes, was inspired.
Agree with all of this, but you failed to point out how shadowy opportunity interacts with blood bath. This, I think is the main concern with shadowy opportunity. With auto-crit blood bath already got a good, appropriate boost to damage. Considering this daily auto-targets and provides damage immunity for a short time, it is already a great utility daily. After testing, I found that SO only procs with courage breaker one time, even though that daily hits thrice. It procs with BB 10 times.
With invisible infiltrator slotted I have done max damage with Blood bath on a single target in PVE at 76k + 27k shadowy opportunity. Now in PVP damage figures are different with tenacity, DR, deflection, ect. Nevertheless, I think Shadow opportunity proccing from BB 10 times is too much, and that the feat should proc once at the start of the daily. I don't think shadowy opportunity is over-powered, and I don't think BB is either, and I would hate to see either one of them modified at the base level just because of their specific interaction.
For all of those reading the up-date to SE and saying "OP!!" you probably failed to notice that SE respects dodges now (that's on page 1 btw), and any other source of damage immunity........ and it has a painfully slow activation time, so stop frothing at the mouth and sit down.
If you are a CW and came to the TR feedback thread to complain about how rogues are killing you, I'd say tough luck. Skilled, geared, TRs are going to eat CWs alive after M5 hits. However, as far as I've seen that's not true of any of the other 5 classes in question, with maybe SW in a similar boat as CW, but they can run plenty fast. If your basing your perspective of class balance on the top 5% of the TR population with BIS gear in combat dynamics between CW and TR then I shouldn't even need to tell you that YOUR perspective is skewed. A new 12k TR without a vorp enchant is going to find themselves a very small fish in a very big pond.
The TR class is one with high levels of CC immunity and targeting evasion beyond melee range. The CW class is one which their defense is a strong offense, namely CC and range. CW vs TR will NEVER be a fair fight unless...... #1 The TR class has unnaturally weak levels of damage to compete against other classes. #2 The skill-cap difference between auto-targeting from range and melee-range powers comes into play. I'm not saying CWs take no skills to play. I'm saying Bad CW vs Bad TR = CW win, Good TR vs Good CW = TR win.
TR is finally getting a bit of usable CC and Burst back, at the cost of riskier combat maneuvers. So some people are going to have to pull up their britches and put their big-boy pants on. If you want to complain about a auto-tracking range at-will DOT ticking for too much, or a feat dealing too much damage, that's fine. However, keep in mind ALL combat situations that nerfs would affect besides just YOU. If you are not educated enough on TR combat situations vs various classes and PVE scenarios to give accurate, encompassing feedback, then kindly express your concerns and butt out.
Personally, my perspective on PVP balance of the TR class is that the top 5% of TRs are going to murder pugs and CWs, to a degree more noticeable than other classes. The TR class is still going to be one of the harsher and un-forgiving classes at the beginner and low gear level, in terms of COMBAT. Frankly, we could have hoped for better for stealth as a PVP issue being resolved, but at this point the die is cast. A lot of those issues might be resolved by gameplay types, the way match-ups are created......etc, but that's another animal.
P.S.
+ .5 deflection per point of dex is certainly not enough to make it worthy of a rogue's main attribute. With auto-crit from stealth the benefits from crit % is very dependent on build and combat rotations, and that makes dex very weak as a main attribute.
True Dat.
I agree to a nerf on Disheartening Strike -- IF, all other bullshi* passive stuff like procs and DoTs in the game are nerfed down globally. INCLUDING certain CW procs. If not, then no way.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
all dots should be at level with deep gash LMAO
Reaffirms my choice in exe, thank you
SAMOTHRACE
Trickster Rogue
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also, i get 8.5% deflect so that should put me above 60% deflect without any procs and 70-80% deflect if either of the deflect feats are active. i am satisfied with the deflect build now although i do still think the tier 1 feats should be doubled in the scoundrel tree. (possibly even replacing 1 of the life-steal feats)
by the way, is the speed bonus from skullcracker always active even after using an encounter? it kinda seems like it but i am not complaining
Suggesting to nerf a at-will which is arguably the single most defining feature of an entire paragon path just because of it's combat dynamics with one other class is hardly a compelling or fair demand. Don't get me wrong, I frown upon ranged stealth builds and auto-proccing passive damage too. But we are talking about a paragon specific at-will power, not a feat like deep gash or warped magics. You don't just ask for a nerf, you ask for a balanced change that lets it remain viable in other situations and against other classes.
Awesome!
Bait and Switch: Is not pulling aggro very well and could use a bit more taunt.