And yet I have a Scoundrel who uses a combination of feated SF and CoS for her at-wills, and a Sab Whisperknife who only uses Disheartening Strike and CoS for hers, and getting a DF-boosting weapon on either of them would suck.
You'll notice, if you re-read what you quoted that I said nearly all. I have already allowed in there that there are people with different builds who use different at-wills. Nearly all is not all. You're arguing a point that was already implied which does not in any way change my argument.
And that is why we really need to be able to choose our weapon rather than having it be randomized.
Yes, this is exactly what I was saying. You seem to be arguing with me, and yet I made the exact same point. I'm not sure where the issue is coming from. A DF-boosting weapon would suck for you. A CoS or SF-boosting one would suck for me. These are both arguments for choosing which you get. I'm not at all sure what you're trying to argue with me on here.
It doesn't really make a difference how easy it is to get the materials , something like this should not be gated behind RNG , I think it is safe to assume everybody here has at one point or another been the victim of the awful RNG system Neverwinter has , doing it this way could potentially mean you could do the task 20 times and still not get the Artifact weapon you wanted , all that is going to do is annoy and frustrate players .
True, Bound + RNG doesn't mix up well.
If the item was BoE, you could still sell/trade for it, but it's BoP and that means you'll have an item that you don't want and you can't do anything else with it.
Even though I agree with most people on the RNG system of this game being badly executed. To be honest, Doesn't all MMORPG require for players to grind their behinds off in order to finally get something they want? It's a sense of accomplishment. There are some people complain about the game being boring and nothing to do after the new contents being released. Imagine if we get everything in the shortest time possible that Will lead us with nothing else to do. Only grinding/farming is what keeps us playing. Yes, the RNG is really bad and sometimes we get something we don't want 6 million times and never get what we wanted. I'd say the chance option to get the preferred artifact is a good idea but just re-work and tweak the chance to get the item so we don't have to grind exceedly or that would put players off. I played on the preview and I feel the contents in ToD is far much better than IWD has to offer and it would be a shame if we manage to complete all the contents in one day (example).
Your already grinding an having big RNG just to get the materials to do this... Makes no sense its double RNG here... Especially considering the massive cost ontop of all that.... I mean once you get green have fun spending millions to get the orange...
Your already grinding an having big RNG just to get the materials to do this... Makes no sense its double RNG here... Especially considering the massive cost ontop of all that.... I mean once you get green have fun spending millions to get the orange...
That's why I don't understand why they are doing it the random way , who in their right mind is going to waste time , effort and AD upgrading a artifact weapon they do not want? , there seems to be no reasoning behind it , its almost like it is random for the sake of being random.
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lazaroth666Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,332Arc User
edited July 2014
And if you don't get the weapon that you want, you must farm every required mat again and again... which is also a RNG not just for one mat, consider that in Icewind Dale, you just need 1 bracers from Remorhaz and 1 MH from Beholder, now you need several items dropped from the Dragons, Skirmish or the Lair. They only thing that might save us is these items are BoE and once you get one of these legendary weapon, you will not get the same so in the worst case we will have to do it 3 times max.
They only thing that might save us is these items are BoE and once you get one of these legendary weapon, you will not get the same so in the worst case we will have to do it 3 times max.
The belts, which are drops, are BoE. The weapons, which you must craft yourself, are BoP, and there is absolutely no reason to believe that you couldn't roll the same one multiple times in a row. "Random" doesn't generally mean it gets removed from the loot table once you have one. It means you have the same chances of getting any of the available outcomes every single time you do the thing.
With the elk tribe gear they went with the bound+RNG, you could get a bound item for a different class IE useless. The player base really spoke out with how bad it was. I don't think anyone liked it. Please don't go down this road with artifacts.
"we all love this game and want it to thrive"
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lazaroth666Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,332Arc User
The belts, which are drops, are BoE. The weapons, which you must craft yourself, are BoP, and there is absolutely no reason to believe that you couldn't roll the same one multiple times in a row. "Random" doesn't generally mean it gets removed from the loot table once you have one. It means you have the same chances of getting any of the available outcomes every single time you do the thing.
Please, read my post carefully, I meant the mats needed like Dragon Gem, Dragon Bone, etc that you need in order to get a box, not the artifacts.
beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
edited July 2014
Oh, yes, I see.
Still, I don't think anyone could count on needing to do the crafting three times at worst. If they're going to make it random, there's no reason to believe that it wouldn't be fully random with the possibility of repeats.
Artifact Belts
Each artifact belt will give a bonus to a base attribute, Strength, Wisdom, Dexterity etc. There is an artifact belt for each of the base attributes. The bonus given starts at +1 and will go up +1 for every quality level, maxing out at +4 at Legendary quality. Artifact belts will not be able to be equipped on companions.
Artifact Weapons
In addition to its damage rating and stats that they give each of the artifact weapons will give a minor increase of some kind to one of the at-wills of that class. The three weapons for each class will correspond to the three at-will powers that are not part of a paragon path.
Will we be able to use other artifacts (ex. Bloodcrystal or Banner) or the artifact weapons and belts themselves as refining materials to put into the artifact weapons and belts?
ie. RNG gives me the arti wep I don't want and it's BoP so I have no real use for it -- can I refine it a bit and then put it into the arti wep I did want once I have it?
Artifacts like the Bloodcrystal Raven Skull can not be used as refining materials for artifact equipment.
Artifact equipment can be used as refining materials for other artifact equipment. All weapons gain bonus RP when used to refine other weapons. All belts give bonus RP when used to refine other belts.
Yeah, pretty comical. Profiteering in action. What's really funny is the people buying them and immediately re-listing them for 10x what they just bought them for.
Off-topic but the more I read things like this the more I wish items could only be sold on the AH once, perhaps the moment they are posted on the AH they change from BoE to BoP. That way the people buying are those that want the item not those trying to manipulate the system to get richer.
Off-topic but the more I read things like this the more I wish items could only be sold on the AH once, perhaps the moment they are posted on the AH they change from BoE to BoP. That way the people buying are those that want the item not those trying to manipulate the system to get richer.
That is not a bad idea really. Stops market manipulation very nicely....
Artifacts like the Bloodcrystal Raven Skull can not be used as refining materials for artifact equipment.
Artifact equipment can be used as refining materials for other artifact equipment. All weapons gain bonus RP when used to refine other weapons. All belts give bonus RP when used to refine other belts.
graalx3 PLEASE can you allow us to choose the Artifact weapon we want instead of making it random? people are just going to begetting ones they neither want or will use and nobody is going to spend AD on marks leveling up a Artifact weapon they have no use for , PLEASE reconsider this .
Artifacts like the Bloodcrystal Raven Skull can not be used as refining materials for artifact equipment.
Artifact equipment can be used as refining materials for other artifact equipment. All weapons gain bonus RP when used to refine other weapons. All belts give bonus RP when used to refine other belts.
So, "square peg won't fit into round hole?"
[Sorry, I could't resist] Your description (both times) was pretty clear to me. I get it. I think people are just a little wary and so they tend to read too much into things sometimes.
Artifact equipment can be used as refining materials for other artifact equipment. All weapons gain bonus RP when used to refine other weapons. All belts give bonus RP when used to refine other belts.
will we get the x5 bonus when we put artifact weapons into artifact weapons and artifact belts into artifact belts, like union artifact when putting it into an union artifact
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arcticblitzMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 126Arc User
edited July 2014
Feedback :
Please do not allow the artifacts to be selected based on RNG, It's both frustrating and counter productive. Please let us have the choice like the T2 Epic sets.
Blitzy : PVE only Barbarian
Martin ConDion PVE only Ranger Guild Founder: -HunterS-
Please do not allow the artifacts to be selected based on RNG, It's both frustrating and counter productive. Please let us have the choice like the T2 Epic sets.
They ask for feedback , we give overwhelming feedback saying not to make the item we get be based on RNG and feedback gets ignored ... knowing the RNG luck in this game you know we will see threads start popping up where people have tried 6 , 7 or more times and got the same two but not the one they want , totally lame.
They ask for feedback , we give overwhelming feedback saying not to make the item we get be based on RNG and feedback gets ignored ... knowing the RNG luck in this game you know we will see threads start popping up where people have tried 6 , 7 or more times and got the same two but not the one they want , totally lame.
It's a little premature to call the feedback regarding the rng for the weapon artifact ignored, the information is only a couple of days old.
They'll be having meeting to discuss the alternative options. I'd be very surprised if this doesn't change. My concern is that there will be another undesirable element added in place of the rng. Like what happened with the enchanting system, no-one liked the up-front AD cost the was initially proposed, it was changed and instead we've got expensive reagents.
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mircalla83Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 36
It's a little premature to call the feedback regarding the rng for the weapon artifact ignored, the information is only a couple of days old.
They'll be having meeting to discuss the alternative options. I'd be very surprised if this doesn't change. My concern is that there will be another undesirable element added in place of the rng. Like what happened with the enchanting system, no-one liked the up-front AD cost the was initially proposed, it was changed and instead we've got expensive reagents.
It can still help to unleash an early enough storm of manure.
Remember the controversy around a certain class' new selfheal feat? Everyone unlikely to ever consider rolling the class wanted it turned to the point where even reading the tooltip would be a waste already. The players of that class rioted enough in their own thread to get a couple bugs with it fixed, and it capped to a somewhat reasonable amount.
It can still help to unleash an early enough storm of manure.
I'm fine with complaints at this point, my voice is among them. I was just getting annoyed with the 'we provide feedback and it gets ignored' bit. The feedback on the rng part only started yesterday.
No one has been able to test this equipment because by the time we would get the requirments mod4 will already be here. We need to be able to get them right now on the preview shard to see if they have bugs, and how they preform
It's a little premature to call the feedback regarding the rng for the weapon artifact ignored, the information is only a couple of days old.
They'll be having meeting to discuss the alternative options. I'd be very surprised if this doesn't change. My concern is that there will be another undesirable element added in place of the rng. Like what happened with the enchanting system, no-one liked the up-front AD cost the was initially proposed, it was changed and instead we've got expensive reagents.
nope but we have all had enough time to play mod 3's RNG so lets take it from there...
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traxsuMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 51
edited August 2014
The only concern I have is this is going to make it a lot harder for new players to 'get the ball rolling' when they hit 60. Because all of the gear that they could buy (I.E. level 60 high quality blue equipment) will be shoved inside of the artifacts rather then cheaply on the market.
The instant crushing despair of hitting 60 with such a tremendous gear discrepancy will be down right punitive.
I.E. there needs to be something at 60 that is worth putting up on the auction inexpensive for new players otherwise you will find that your new people who hit 60 will likely quit because they are too intimidated by the method by which you can get gear.
The only concern I have is this is going to make it a lot harder for new players to 'get the ball rolling' when they hit 60. Because all of the gear that they could buy (I.E. level 60 high quality blue equipment) will be shoved inside of the artifacts rather then cheaply on the market.
The instant crushing despair of hitting 60 with such a tremendous gear discrepancy will be down right punitive.
I.E. there needs to be something at 60 that is worth putting up on the auction inexpensive for new players otherwise you will find that your new people who hit 60 will likely quit because they are too intimidated by the method by which you can get gear.
That's funny, because when I got my main up to 60, I didn't buy any level 60 gear. I used drops, as I did at lower levels, and ran dungeons for all but my T2 Main Hand (no one seems to want to run epic DV) and my hat/helm/head piece because I kept not getting it out of SP and it was yet another dungeon no one wanted to run.
If someone is intimidated by running content with enemies 1-2 levels above them (T1 epics) then maybe they should play their dalies for a while and learn how to play their character so they are more effective in a dungeon. Which also means getting level 60 drops, and the possibility for getting epic drops from lair quests, then once better geared and better learned in how to play their character, then they can run a dungeon.
Though, if someone actually ran dungeons as they leveled, they would either learn how to play their characters, stop playing, or go to PvP. People aren't meant to go from fresh level 60 to running a T2. Hence T1 gear.
Anything aside from that, such as actual GS needed to run some dungeons such as Mad Dragon isn't part of this.
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
edited August 2014
Unrelated but also the campaigns are a great source of blue drops and epic drops in the lairs. I wouldn't worry too much. It's just going to be a few minutes more work, instead of going to the AH and clicking. People will just have to EARN more of their gear, than straight up buy it.
"Meanwhile in the moderator's lounge..."
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bajornorbertMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 272Arc User
edited August 2014
The RP value of items needs to be reworked, because atm it's not worth using epics for refinements. Also the difference in RP value between a T1 & T2 is very low.
I'll demonstrate the problem with an example:
You have a T2 belt that you don't use. If you feed it to an artifact belt, you get 1300 RP. If you salvage it you get 6k rAD, which sooner or later you'll refine and for that 6k AD you can get at least 20 blue belts, for which you get 12k RP (20 x 600 RP), or you buy 1k green belts, for which you get 200k RP (1k x 200 RP). Someone buying 1k green belts is unlikely, but not impossible, and even if you don't buy matching items, you get 6k RP from blues, and 100k RP from greens, for the AD you get from salvaging a single T2 belt, instead of 1.3k RP as you would've gotten if you fed said belt to your artifact belt.
The RP value of items should be something like this:
Uncommon: 5 RP
Rare: 75 RP
Epic: 300 RP
Tier 1: 400 RP
Tier 2: 700 RP
This way you will still get more RP from using lower QL items, but you won't get 200x RP for using greens instead of T2s.
The RP value of items needs to be reworked, because atm it's not worth using epics for refinements. Also the difference in RP value between a T1 & T2 is very low.
I'll demonstrate the problem with an example:
You have a T2 belt that you don't use. If you feed it to an artifact belt, you get 1300 RP. If you salvage it you get 6k rAD, which sooner or later you'll refine and for that 6k AD you can get at least 20 blue belts, for which you get 12k RP (20 x 600 RP), or you buy 1k green belts, for which you get 200k RP (1k x 200 RP). Someone buying 1k green belts is unlikely, but not impossible, and even if you don't buy matching items, you get 6k RP from blues, and 100k RP from greens, for the AD you get from salvaging a single T2 belt, instead of 1.3k RP as you would've gotten if you fed said belt to your artifact belt.
The RP value of items should be something like this:
Uncommon: 5 RP
Rare: 75 RP
Epic: 300 RP
Tier 1: 400 RP
Tier 2: 700 RP
This way you will still get more RP from using lower QL items, but you won't get 200x RP for using greens instead of T2s.
No, no and no. I get the idea, but your solution sucks.
First of all, prices for green and blue gear will get higher with demand. Second and most important, IF they would change RP, they should increase RP on epic gear, not decrease the values.
According to your plan you would be refining for 3 weeks 24/7, to get a legendary belt and weapon, if you can refine one green item a second. Your plan would make a epic gear unobtainable for all players exept the ones willing to pay large sums of AD/ cash.
Comments
You'll notice, if you re-read what you quoted that I said nearly all. I have already allowed in there that there are people with different builds who use different at-wills. Nearly all is not all. You're arguing a point that was already implied which does not in any way change my argument.
Yes, this is exactly what I was saying. You seem to be arguing with me, and yet I made the exact same point. I'm not sure where the issue is coming from. A DF-boosting weapon would suck for you. A CoS or SF-boosting one would suck for me. These are both arguments for choosing which you get. I'm not at all sure what you're trying to argue with me on here.
True, Bound + RNG doesn't mix up well.
If the item was BoE, you could still sell/trade for it, but it's BoP and that means you'll have an item that you don't want and you can't do anything else with it.
Your already grinding an having big RNG just to get the materials to do this... Makes no sense its double RNG here... Especially considering the massive cost ontop of all that.... I mean once you get green have fun spending millions to get the orange...
That's why I don't understand why they are doing it the random way , who in their right mind is going to waste time , effort and AD upgrading a artifact weapon they do not want? , there seems to be no reasoning behind it , its almost like it is random for the sake of being random.
Don't be so sensitive, I was building on what you wrote, not countering it. The fact that I was agreeing with you should have made that obvious.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
The belts, which are drops, are BoE. The weapons, which you must craft yourself, are BoP, and there is absolutely no reason to believe that you couldn't roll the same one multiple times in a row. "Random" doesn't generally mean it gets removed from the loot table once you have one. It means you have the same chances of getting any of the available outcomes every single time you do the thing.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Please, read my post carefully, I meant the mats needed like Dragon Gem, Dragon Bone, etc that you need in order to get a box, not the artifacts.
Still, I don't think anyone could count on needing to do the crafting three times at worst. If they're going to make it random, there's no reason to believe that it wouldn't be fully random with the possibility of repeats.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
skills checks on crafting resource nodes give you a 75% chance of succeeding.
I've personally had my kits break 5 times in a row, on many occasions.
A 75% chance is obviously better than 33% chance.
The crafting mats for the box have a chance to drop from the skirms/dungeons/HEs.
What do you think my odds are of getting enough mats to get the weapon I prefer within 60 days of game play?
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Will we be able to use other artifacts (ex. Bloodcrystal or Banner) or the artifact weapons and belts themselves as refining materials to put into the artifact weapons and belts?
ie. RNG gives me the arti wep I don't want and it's BoP so I have no real use for it -- can I refine it a bit and then put it into the arti wep I did want once I have it?
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Artifact equipment can be used as refining materials for other artifact equipment. All weapons gain bonus RP when used to refine other weapons. All belts give bonus RP when used to refine other belts.
Off-topic but the more I read things like this the more I wish items could only be sold on the AH once, perhaps the moment they are posted on the AH they change from BoE to BoP. That way the people buying are those that want the item not those trying to manipulate the system to get richer.
That is not a bad idea really. Stops market manipulation very nicely....
graalx3 PLEASE can you allow us to choose the Artifact weapon we want instead of making it random? people are just going to begetting ones they neither want or will use and nobody is going to spend AD on marks leveling up a Artifact weapon they have no use for , PLEASE reconsider this .
So, "square peg won't fit into round hole?"
[Sorry, I could't resist] Your description (both times) was pretty clear to me. I get it. I think people are just a little wary and so they tend to read too much into things sometimes.
will we get the x5 bonus when we put artifact weapons into artifact weapons and artifact belts into artifact belts, like union artifact when putting it into an union artifact
Please do not allow the artifacts to be selected based on RNG, It's both frustrating and counter productive. Please let us have the choice like the T2 Epic sets.
Martin ConDion PVE only Ranger
Guild Founder: -HunterS-
They ask for feedback , we give overwhelming feedback saying not to make the item we get be based on RNG and feedback gets ignored ... knowing the RNG luck in this game you know we will see threads start popping up where people have tried 6 , 7 or more times and got the same two but not the one they want , totally lame.
It's a little premature to call the feedback regarding the rng for the weapon artifact ignored, the information is only a couple of days old.
They'll be having meeting to discuss the alternative options. I'd be very surprised if this doesn't change. My concern is that there will be another undesirable element added in place of the rng. Like what happened with the enchanting system, no-one liked the up-front AD cost the was initially proposed, it was changed and instead we've got expensive reagents.
It can still help to unleash an early enough storm of manure.
Remember the controversy around a certain class' new selfheal feat? Everyone unlikely to ever consider rolling the class wanted it turned to the point where even reading the tooltip would be a waste already. The players of that class rioted enough in their own thread to get a couple bugs with it fixed, and it capped to a somewhat reasonable amount.
I'm fine with complaints at this point, my voice is among them. I was just getting annoyed with the 'we provide feedback and it gets ignored' bit. The feedback on the rng part only started yesterday.
CRAZY MIKE - 14.6k PvE CW
Backbone - 16.7k PvP HR
[SIGPIC]http://i59.tinypic.com/s3hts7.png[/SIGPIC]
The instant crushing despair of hitting 60 with such a tremendous gear discrepancy will be down right punitive.
I.E. there needs to be something at 60 that is worth putting up on the auction inexpensive for new players otherwise you will find that your new people who hit 60 will likely quit because they are too intimidated by the method by which you can get gear.
That's funny, because when I got my main up to 60, I didn't buy any level 60 gear. I used drops, as I did at lower levels, and ran dungeons for all but my T2 Main Hand (no one seems to want to run epic DV) and my hat/helm/head piece because I kept not getting it out of SP and it was yet another dungeon no one wanted to run.
If someone is intimidated by running content with enemies 1-2 levels above them (T1 epics) then maybe they should play their dalies for a while and learn how to play their character so they are more effective in a dungeon. Which also means getting level 60 drops, and the possibility for getting epic drops from lair quests, then once better geared and better learned in how to play their character, then they can run a dungeon.
Though, if someone actually ran dungeons as they leveled, they would either learn how to play their characters, stop playing, or go to PvP. People aren't meant to go from fresh level 60 to running a T2. Hence T1 gear.
Anything aside from that, such as actual GS needed to run some dungeons such as Mad Dragon isn't part of this.
I'll demonstrate the problem with an example:
You have a T2 belt that you don't use. If you feed it to an artifact belt, you get 1300 RP. If you salvage it you get 6k rAD, which sooner or later you'll refine and for that 6k AD you can get at least 20 blue belts, for which you get 12k RP (20 x 600 RP), or you buy 1k green belts, for which you get 200k RP (1k x 200 RP). Someone buying 1k green belts is unlikely, but not impossible, and even if you don't buy matching items, you get 6k RP from blues, and 100k RP from greens, for the AD you get from salvaging a single T2 belt, instead of 1.3k RP as you would've gotten if you fed said belt to your artifact belt.
The RP value of items should be something like this:
Uncommon: 5 RP
Rare: 75 RP
Epic: 300 RP
Tier 1: 400 RP
Tier 2: 700 RP
This way you will still get more RP from using lower QL items, but you won't get 200x RP for using greens instead of T2s.
No, no and no. I get the idea, but your solution sucks.
First of all, prices for green and blue gear will get higher with demand. Second and most important, IF they would change RP, they should increase RP on epic gear, not decrease the values.
According to your plan you would be refining for 3 weeks 24/7, to get a legendary belt and weapon, if you can refine one green item a second. Your plan would make a epic gear unobtainable for all players exept the ones willing to pay large sums of AD/ cash.