Honestly, our feats should not be a party wide buff (hey, we're renegade spell storm, not party-charity spell storm like the Oppressor tree ). But because we are tied to Nightmare Wizardry & Phantasmal Destruction the changes have basically completely broken the synergy in feat tree. Our capstone has always been of questionable utility, but we put up with it because of the rest.
Fine. If not party-wise buff, then at least cap-stone rework. And I still would go in the direction of lowering casting time for encounters and taking off ICD from feats, so that Renegade can slot in EotS, focus on getting combat advantage, benefit from stacking crit. Why should I even bother with rising combat adv., crits., if I could just go thauma and have it all easier? What is the point of being renegade now? There is nothing rewarding about it. Someone also mentioned moving nightmare wizardry further into the tree - another good idea for saving endangered species.
Bids he then the spruces to singer him an anthems!
And the Woodsie Lord binders them fleshes to stone!
Maelstrom of Chaos is such a dumpster fire that I'm not sure where they would begin in trying to make it viable. It has more bugs than any three other powers put together. The running list of its worthlessness is: it cannot crit under any circumstances, receives no bonus damage from power, receives no bonus damage from Intelligence, receives no damage boosts from any feats, receives no damage boost from any passive class features like Evocation and Arcane Mastery, and it does less damage, has a smaller AoE, worse control and hits fewer targets than Oppressive Force.
Other than that it's just ducky.
I agree, fix the bugs. Then try increasing it's radius, and allow it to decrease aggro.
I agree, fix the bugs. Then try increasing it's radius, and allow it to decrease aggro.
The thing is Maelstrom is ALSO unresistable damage, tested in a number of circumstances, it will ALWAYS hit a 5.8k, on deflect, forest meditation, unstoppable, impossible to catch. It's also unresistable damage and it's even cc immune for 2-4 seconds, and you can dodge mid cast, having cc immunity for a few seconds at the cost of 50% daily isn't as bad as you might think seeing how fast we get action points. It's actually a very useful skill in a variety of circumstances, not to mention being able to throw that pesky gwf clear off the node in domination. (:<
The thing is Maelstrom is ALSO unresistable damage, tested in a number of circumstances, it will ALWAYS hit a 5.8k, on deflect, forest meditation, unstoppable, impossible to catch. It's also unresistable damage and it's even cc immune for 2-4 seconds, and you can dodge mid cast, having cc immunity for a few seconds at the cost of 50% daily isn't as bad as you might think seeing how fast we get action points. It's actually a very useful skill in a variety of circumstances, not to mention being able to throw that pesky gwf clear off the node in domination. (:<
It's just not worth it. You will never hit someone due to the radius (unless the guy is really dumb); and if the person is rooted, it's much better to use IK instead.
There actually is kind of an utility for the control immune and damage reduction, but will you ever change OF and IK for that? And also I don't think this daily was designed to be used just because of that.
(´･ ω ･`)
0
ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
The damage for Assailing force is not being calculated correctly. I parsed a run of the Heroic Encounter Rescue the Prospectors (Chilltooth) in the Dwarven Valley. Below is the parsed data. Assailant peaked at 22,635 and on average did around 16,000 (the parse shows an average of 5,484 but that is including triggers, only 1/3 of those are actual damage). Assailant is supposed to be capped at 800% of weapon damage. My max weapon damage is 827, so 8*827 = 6616 so clearly that is not working as intended.
There's no "cap". The 15%/800% is the base damage of the ability, then you get anything that would normally boost your damage added to it.
Control Wizard: Assailing Force: This feat now benefits from your damage bonuses. It is classified as Arcane damage for purposes of calculating bonuses.
Control Wizard: Assailing Force: This feat can now trigger on any outgoing damage (instead of only on Encounter powers).
Control Wizard: Assailing Force: This feat now deals 15% of a target's HP or 800% of your weapon damage, whichever is less (up from 10% and 500% respectively).
Control Wizard: Assailing Force: This feat is now properly unresistable.
It's just not worth it. You will never hit someone due to the radius (unless the guy is really dumb); and if the person is rooted, it's much better to use IK instead.
There actually is kind of an utility for the control immune and damage reduction, but will you ever change OF and IK for that? And also I don't think this daily was designed to be used just because of that.
are you serious? you are telling me that this skill isnt worth it?
There's no "cap". The 15%/800% is the base damage of the ability, then you get anything that would normally boost your damage added to it.
There's no way that I can boost the damage of any of my spells 4x. Add up all the buffs you want, like 30% from High Vizier et al., you will never, ever get to 400% like I'm currently seeing.
That would imply an internal cooldown of 5 secs. Wasn't there a 15 sec cooldown? If it is reduced than that ,to me, is a good thing since i'm against internal cooldowns. However if people think it is overpowered,instead of bypassing all resistances,like necrotic damage does, it could have a 50% ignore instead so that it would still be viable at pvp and pve.Also,and correct me if i'm wrong on this, i see it being activated by Icy terrain and not plaguefire ticks. Does the storm spell proc it too?
Currently on preview I fought 2 different cws with similar specs and with just at wills were killing me after 4 procs of this feature for 10k damage each this is utter overkill(this only took a few seconds to accomplish with dot weapon enchants). Even with entangling force this was going off as well with dots doing 10k damage as well this needs a serious tone down in pvp.
Shield giving a perm 50% dr buff is also way over the top as well, this needs to be toned down cws have the dr of a prot gf
my perspective as a gf
In order for Cws to gain this DR and Survivability they have to sacrifice a lot of dps especially if shield is slotted in mastery. It's a tradeoff which makes perfect sense.Also Shields DR diminishes as Cws get hit so it's not a constant DR. All in all i feel its very well balanced as it is. Now assailing force is only a single damage feat and it's not so much that it procs often but that it does necrotic like damage. I'd argue that a 50% damage ignore,instead of 100% which is now,would solve the problem.
In order for Cws to gain this DR and Survivability they have to sacrifice a lot of dps especially if shield is slotted in mastery. It's a tradeoff which makes perfect sense.Also Shields DR diminishes as Cws get hit so it's not a constant DR. All in all i feel its very well balanced as it is. Now assailing force is only a single damage feat and it's not so much that it procs often but that it does necrotic like damage. I'd argue that a 50% damage ignore,instead of 100% which is now,would solve the problem.
so dose prot gf and sentinel gwf and even then they will hardly reach so easy 50% dr it is just to much and for u 10k+ assielng force procs are not to much? it is even to much in pve gwf and gf at wills hits less then 1k per hit and this feat ads 10k to cws at wills and dots
0.0 this need to be fixed asap. It happened to me in preview today, even assailant force seems to have problems damage wise. I was like "lol what?????"
So it'll hold 2 atcks only, so not realy usefull, on pvp it'll worst, cause any non stupid person will just use they at will 2 times and then finish the cw. on pve those raged minions will make shield useless. so making the maths shield buff is just another stupid, useless buff.
So it'll hold 2 atcks only, so not realy usefull, on pvp it'll worst, cause any non stupid person will just use they at will 2 times and then finish the cw. on pve those raged minions will make shield useless. so making the maths shield buff is just another stupid, useless buff.
Even when its completely broken, the shield will give +35/50% DR depending on mastery or not; I'm sorry, but I don't see how that is a useless buff?
So it'll hold 2 atcks only, so not realy usefull, on pvp it'll worst, cause any non stupid person will just use they at will 2 times and then finish the cw. on pve those raged minions will make shield useless. so making the maths shield buff is just another stupid, useless buff.
This made me lol! CW shield in Mastery even BROKEN is 2x as strong as Unstoppable DR....
I feel like they over nerf and over buff... GWFs lost prones and control because (mainly) CWs... Now CW DR boosted and GWFs lose prones...
W.e
Assailing force needs to be fixed to a 10-15sec ICD and NEEDS to repsect DR/and damage buffs.... This is tenebrous all over. Honestly no attacks should ignore DR
0
ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
edited July 2014
I'm happy to see people complaining about the CW in PvP now...means Cryptic is moving in the right direction
Abad I looked at your numbers for Assailant that you posted and the max was 22k, 16k avg.
The max was a crit and seems exactly what you would expect from a crit on a 6800 damage spell. Not really sure what your seeing as broken. What debuffs did you have, buffs, HV set, perfect vorp, power, ArmP ect you get the point. Those numbers seem in line.
Consider the cw had consistent at will damage with CoI AE debuff and dot, storm procs. Now there is no more debuff and the class abilities are almost useless (storm) and the damage is random spikey procs that the cw does not control. The shield and the additional CC helps but it takes alot longer to kill anything and the CWs dps has been cut in half.
Now the board is getting lit up by pvpers (non cws) crying for nerfs before their free kills get taken away.
After testing it further i have come to agree with a previous post,which stated that it is underpowered in pve and quite powerful in pvp. In pve its damage output isn't significant because it is a single target power with only a percentage chance of activating. But in pvp it does significant amounts of damage,that are refreshed. To be honest i hate internal cooldowns so i would suggest to not go down that path since it will make it unusable,like Eye of the storm. An alternative would be to change it so that weapon enchants,such as plaguefire, don't activate it with their dots.Also make it so that only encounter powers activate it. That way no cw will be able to kill other players by just spamming icy ray. Another alternative would be to reduce its damage output by say 30% but make it an Area of Effect feat with a target cap of say 5 to 10 which,again, cannot be activated by weapon enchants and at-wills but by encounter powers only.
A better way IMO that it could work is give it an ICD of like 1 second, but a MUCH MUCH lower proc chance. Also it SHOULD respect DR and NOT proc off of "all source of damage" but maybe JUST encounters and at wills.
This brings it back up into the realm of being PVE feasible (make at 1 sec ICD its stil ltoo strong in AOE?) But in PVP the lower proc chance AND DR respect makes this less OP.
Now the board is getting lit up by pvpers (non cws) crying for nerfs before their free kills get taken away.
I couldn't have said it better myself , strange these people don't appear on the feedback threads for their own classes making suggestions to make their class more fair and not as 'OP' but buff a class that has been not much more than free pvp points for the past two modules and they all rush in here giving suggestions on what to nerf cuz it just isn't fair anymore...
A better way IMO that it could work is give it an ICD of like 1 second, but a MUCH MUCH lower proc chance. Also it SHOULD respect DR and NOT proc off of "all source of damage" but maybe JUST encounters and at wills.
This brings it back up into the realm of being PVE feasible (make at 1 sec ICD its stil ltoo strong in AOE?) But in PVP the lower proc chance AND DR respect makes this less OP.
Thoughts?
Well if you give it both an icd AND a much lower proc rate is like taking it all the way from useful to completely useless and that's not good. You could give it one or the other but not both,i think it's too much. Also if you include the other changes i proposed,about weapon enchants and encounter powers,then further nerfs will be unfair. You see the problem is it does a good amount of damage,that acts like necrotic. That can be corrected by making it Damage Resistance relevant. As always i'm against icd as, in my view,they spoil the fun. See what icd have done to some enchants that none wants because of the silly 20 sec cooldown.
Edit : There has been mentioned that Assailing Force might be bugged and is doing more damage than intended. If that is the case then by fixing it to reflect its tool tip there should be no problem. So for now i will have to take back what I've said about its power in pvp and wait for a confirmation on whether it is bugged or not.If its damage output is as was intended then everything i've said so far stands.
Abad I looked at your numbers for Assailant that you posted and the max was 22k, 16k avg.
The max was a crit and seems exactly what you would expect from a crit on a 6800 damage spell. Not really sure what your seeing as broken. What debuffs did you have, buffs, HV set, perfect vorp, power, ArmP ect you get the point. Those numbers seem in line.
Consider the cw had consistent at will damage with CoI AE debuff and dot, storm procs. Now there is no more debuff and the class abilities are almost useless (storm) and the damage is random spikey procs that the cw does not control. The shield and the additional CC helps but it takes alot longer to kill anything and the CWs dps has been cut in half.
Now the board is getting lit up by pvpers (non cws) crying for nerfs before their free kills get taken away.
Several of your assumptions are incorrect. Assailing Force does not crit. The 22k damage was a non-critical hit. Here's a parse from today of Epic Lostmauth showing the highest Assailing Force damage:
None of those are critical hits and none of them have any boost in effectiveness (the far right column would show 110%, 120%, 130% etc if there were buffs affecting the damage). The only damage boost seems to be from Combat Advantage (flank).
Armor penetration, power and other things should be irrelevant to this calculation. Assailant is supposed to be unresistable damage (meaning it damages the same regardless of defense or armor) and should not be boosted by power or other buffs. It is supposed to be flat damage that is 15% of the targets max HP or 800% weapon damage, whichever is less. It is obvious that it is not doing that damage - it's doing a whole lot more.
I get that CW's have been the PvP punching bag and we should all want that to change. And I get that a lot of damage has been taken away already. But this is a forum to report bugs and Assailing Force is bugged. It is not working as intended.
Armor penetration, power and other things should be irrelevant to this calculation. Assailant is supposed to be unresistable damage (meaning it damages the same regardless of defense or armor) and should not be boosted by power or other buffs. It is supposed to be flat damage that is 15% of the targets max HP or 800% weapon damage, whichever is less. It is obvious that it is not doing that damage - it's doing a whole lot more.
As far as Assailing Force goes when you target someone with it, it checks their HP against the 800% cap and determines which clamp to use. Then it applies your damage bonuses after that. This means as you get stronger it will start doing higher and higher % of target HP.
Comments
Fine. If not party-wise buff, then at least cap-stone rework. And I still would go in the direction of lowering casting time for encounters and taking off ICD from feats, so that Renegade can slot in EotS, focus on getting combat advantage, benefit from stacking crit. Why should I even bother with rising combat adv., crits., if I could just go thauma and have it all easier? What is the point of being renegade now? There is nothing rewarding about it. Someone also mentioned moving nightmare wizardry further into the tree - another good idea for saving endangered species.
I agree, fix the bugs. Then try increasing it's radius, and allow it to decrease aggro.
The thing is Maelstrom is ALSO unresistable damage, tested in a number of circumstances, it will ALWAYS hit a 5.8k, on deflect, forest meditation, unstoppable, impossible to catch. It's also unresistable damage and it's even cc immune for 2-4 seconds, and you can dodge mid cast, having cc immunity for a few seconds at the cost of 50% daily isn't as bad as you might think seeing how fast we get action points. It's actually a very useful skill in a variety of circumstances, not to mention being able to throw that pesky gwf clear off the node in domination. (:<
CRAZY MIKE - 14.6k PvE CW
Backbone - 16.7k PvP HR
[SIGPIC]http://i59.tinypic.com/s3hts7.png[/SIGPIC]
I join the request, fix this goddammit REPEL, it is very annoying to fight against GWF/GF and using 5x times repel without push effect!
It's just not worth it. You will never hit someone due to the radius (unless the guy is really dumb); and if the person is rooted, it's much better to use IK instead.
There actually is kind of an utility for the control immune and damage reduction, but will you ever change OF and IK for that? And also I don't think this daily was designed to be used just because of that.
There's no "cap". The 15%/800% is the base damage of the ability, then you get anything that would normally boost your damage added to it.
are you serious? you are telling me that this skill isnt worth it?
There's no way that I can boost the damage of any of my spells 4x. Add up all the buffs you want, like 30% from High Vizier et al., you will never, ever get to 400% like I'm currently seeing.
You do understand that we're talking about Maelstrom of Chaos, right?
In order for Cws to gain this DR and Survivability they have to sacrifice a lot of dps especially if shield is slotted in mastery. It's a tradeoff which makes perfect sense.Also Shields DR diminishes as Cws get hit so it's not a constant DR. All in all i feel its very well balanced as it is. Now assailing force is only a single damage feat and it's not so much that it procs often but that it does necrotic like damage. I'd argue that a 50% damage ignore,instead of 100% which is now,would solve the problem.
so dose prot gf and sentinel gwf and even then they will hardly reach so easy 50% dr it is just to much and for u 10k+ assielng force procs are not to much? it is even to much in pve gwf and gf at wills hits less then 1k per hit and this feat ads 10k to cws at wills and dots
So it'll hold 2 atcks only, so not realy usefull, on pvp it'll worst, cause any non stupid person will just use they at will 2 times and then finish the cw. on pve those raged minions will make shield useless. so making the maths shield buff is just another stupid, useless buff.
Even when its completely broken, the shield will give +35/50% DR depending on mastery or not; I'm sorry, but I don't see how that is a useless buff?
Even 35% DR is more than unstoppable.
This made me lol! CW shield in Mastery even BROKEN is 2x as strong as Unstoppable DR....
I feel like they over nerf and over buff... GWFs lost prones and control because (mainly) CWs... Now CW DR boosted and GWFs lose prones...
W.e
Assailing force needs to be fixed to a 10-15sec ICD and NEEDS to repsect DR/and damage buffs.... This is tenebrous all over. Honestly no attacks should ignore DR
The max was a crit and seems exactly what you would expect from a crit on a 6800 damage spell. Not really sure what your seeing as broken. What debuffs did you have, buffs, HV set, perfect vorp, power, ArmP ect you get the point. Those numbers seem in line.
Consider the cw had consistent at will damage with CoI AE debuff and dot, storm procs. Now there is no more debuff and the class abilities are almost useless (storm) and the damage is random spikey procs that the cw does not control. The shield and the additional CC helps but it takes alot longer to kill anything and the CWs dps has been cut in half.
Now the board is getting lit up by pvpers (non cws) crying for nerfs before their free kills get taken away.
A better way IMO that it could work is give it an ICD of like 1 second, but a MUCH MUCH lower proc chance. Also it SHOULD respect DR and NOT proc off of "all source of damage" but maybe JUST encounters and at wills.
This brings it back up into the realm of being PVE feasible (make at 1 sec ICD its stil ltoo strong in AOE?) But in PVP the lower proc chance AND DR respect makes this less OP.
Thoughts?
I couldn't have said it better myself , strange these people don't appear on the feedback threads for their own classes making suggestions to make their class more fair and not as 'OP' but buff a class that has been not much more than free pvp points for the past two modules and they all rush in here giving suggestions on what to nerf cuz it just isn't fair anymore...
Well if you give it both an icd AND a much lower proc rate is like taking it all the way from useful to completely useless and that's not good. You could give it one or the other but not both,i think it's too much. Also if you include the other changes i proposed,about weapon enchants and encounter powers,then further nerfs will be unfair. You see the problem is it does a good amount of damage,that acts like necrotic. That can be corrected by making it Damage Resistance relevant. As always i'm against icd as, in my view,they spoil the fun. See what icd have done to some enchants that none wants because of the silly 20 sec cooldown.
Edit : There has been mentioned that Assailing Force might be bugged and is doing more damage than intended. If that is the case then by fixing it to reflect its tool tip there should be no problem. So for now i will have to take back what I've said about its power in pvp and wait for a confirmation on whether it is bugged or not.If its damage output is as was intended then everything i've said so far stands.
Several of your assumptions are incorrect. Assailing Force does not crit. The 22k damage was a non-critical hit. Here's a parse from today of Epic Lostmauth showing the highest Assailing Force damage:
None of those are critical hits and none of them have any boost in effectiveness (the far right column would show 110%, 120%, 130% etc if there were buffs affecting the damage). The only damage boost seems to be from Combat Advantage (flank).
Armor penetration, power and other things should be irrelevant to this calculation. Assailant is supposed to be unresistable damage (meaning it damages the same regardless of defense or armor) and should not be boosted by power or other buffs. It is supposed to be flat damage that is 15% of the targets max HP or 800% weapon damage, whichever is less. It is obvious that it is not doing that damage - it's doing a whole lot more.
I get that CW's have been the PvP punching bag and we should all want that to change. And I get that a lot of damage has been taken away already. But this is a forum to report bugs and Assailing Force is bugged. It is not working as intended.
Actually, Also So how much power and int did that wizard have?
I stand corrected. ~7k power, 24 INT. Not sure what other bonuses they are factoring into that.
Probably every damage bonus factors in (debuffs, combat advantage, feats, etc)