Wait so, FtF is getting cast time increased double cd increased 50% and Dmg nerfed 33%.... Why nerf the only cool fire skill. There's already a lack of fire spell considering there's a "master of flame"... I really don't get the reasoning behind this nerf at all... Starting this game my only Intension was to be a fire Mage. These nerfs make this spell seem so not worth it. Ugg really disappointing, and totally killed my vibe on the excitement for mod4 as I had a FtF build planned so I can be a real "master of fire" not "master of smolder" smh
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zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
edited July 2014
Folks, if your comments are more discussionary in measure than straight feedback,
please use these discussion threads provided instead. Thanks!
We included each of these discussion threads as a link in the [ List ] sticky.
Ok Sorry about that, simply i spec'd into master of flame because i want to use fire spells, In PvE. The cast time and cd i dont mind at all really(even though they are pretty stout(100% increased cast time/50% increased CD), its the dmg nerf by a 33% thats got me. The cd you can gear around, but you cant not gear around a dmg nerf, you spec around it. Idk i just want to be a PvE fire mage, using FIRE spells to proc FIRE passives, not a "Master of Fire' that uses all COLD and ARCANE spell because of a passive that makes it so you dont need any FIRE spells to proc smoulder.
I was actually excited about mod4 because the feat change to FtF. Even with the nerf to cd/cast time, Mobs will burn at the hands of FtF finally (muhahaha). Idk the dmg nerf really killed a lot of excitement i had.
Control Wizard: Assailing Force: This feat now benefits from your damage bonuses. It is classified as Arcane damage for purposes of calculating bonuses.
Control Wizard: Assailing Force: This feat can now trigger on any outgoing damage (instead of only on Encounter powers).
Control Wizard: Assailing Force: This feat now deals 15% of a target's HP or 800% of your weapon damage, whichever is less (up from 10% and 500% respectively).
Control Wizard: Assailing Force: This feat is now properly unresistable.
Why do I feel like this might be a repeat of Deep Gash in module 2?
We definitely need that feature. DC and SW can already remain movable when they are using a certain powers. As the class which lacks defense the most, some of our powers need to allow us to be moveable for more survivability.
Magic Missile is definatly underpreforming by a long shot compared to live, Although it can stack some pretty good damage, that damage is cut in half easy by any players with atleast 30% dr, which is pretty easy for all classes. I was hitting in the double digits (on a tr) with my magic missile, and my crits were hitting like 600 max.... Shard of endless avalanche on preview will max what magic missile hits on live right now, and magic missile on preview will hit what a plague fire enchant will hit on live........ CW damage really needs to be reworked as in, the damage nurfs should go where they are well deserved, in AoE abilities. Single target attacks have no place in dungeons, and thats where all the complaints come from because CWs are outdamaging the other classes by alot. Thats AoE damage, not single target. CWs need to have less AoE and about the same single target damage as on live now. In PvP, just look at the **** leaderboards right now, scroll through the first 10 pages (200 people) about 7 of those people are CWs.... 7/200!!!!!!! And people think CW is op lol. Thats only the AoE damage talking, reverse all the single target damage nurfs and nurf the big AoE damagers and you have your CW rebalance to be in line with the other classes.
Why do I feel like this might be a repeat of Deep Gash in module 2?
Lol!
Deep Gash did 40-45% dmg in mod2 and it was basically a DOT, Assailing Force is doing only ~2% dmg and its a single target dmg to an aoe specced class.
Before crying wolf it must be realized that with these changes thaumaturgy capstone is only changing from embarassing to somewhat compatable to renegade capstone...
I was thinking that even if you are thaum you should put that one point to bitter cold or something else...
Control Wizard: Elemental Empowerment: Warped Magics and Creeping Frost now tick every 2 seconds (down from every 3 seconds) and last 12 seconds (down from 18 seconds).
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
You realize that u just change 6 for a half a dozen right?
You realize that u just change 6 for a half a dozen right?
Yes the number of ticks is the same, but now they are closer together so it is more 'bursty' and there is less of a chance that a target will die from other damage sources before the DoT runs its full course. Overall this change does make the feat somewhat more effective from my reading of it.
Yes the number of ticks is the same, but now they are closer together so it is more 'bursty' and there is less of a chance that a target will die from other damage sources before the DoT runs its full course. Overall this change does make the feat somewhat more effective from my reading of it.
Agreed. Also they are now going to benefit from things like arcane mastery, chilling presence, etc. So the damage will go up. I won't criticize that the change is not enough until the change goes onto the preview server and I actually have a chance to test it. Giving specific feedback that "this feat does X% of my damage" is more likely to get them to change something than speculating that it isn't going to be enough.
This is excellent! Far better than I thought it would be! Very stoked about testing this out now
Have you had any thoughts about looking at the Battlewise feat? It's a PvE only effect, and something I've never felt the need to have whilst leveling. It would be great to get something that would make Arcane stacks last longer maybe,
The Brisk Transport feat is hardly noticeable as well, please would you consider extending the teleport range (say 2ft / rank) ?
Lol , don't quote that , it was a joke , not serious
This is serious. If we can walk when casting ray of frost then we can hope to escape an ennemy running towards us by slowing it.
All the discussion are about DPS. I hope that something will be done for survivability (even if we don't choose oppressor). The loss of DPS is necessary (but not for the at-will... damage are just ridiculous now. A companion do almost more damage !).
I read there is a rework of Orb of imposition... Longer duration...good, but who can we control exactly ? What about immunity ? What about PVP where we can't control nothing other than CW and DC ?
It's the promotion of group work. That's fine, but how can we help the group if we are dead ? This changes makes us totally dependent on others. The group can help us to survive. Ok. Now, what can we do for the group ? Oh... yes... we have singularity...
I am sad because if we do not seize this opportunity now while everything is on the table, it will never be done. We have 1 month until the release of M4 and not much hope because the doors are already almost closed.
Chaotic neutral - so i can do whatever the hell i want
This is serious. If we can walk when casting ray of frost then we can hope to escape an ennemy running towards us by slowing it.
All the discussion are about DPS. I hope that something will be done for survivability (even if we don't choose oppressor). The loss of DPS is necessary (but not for the at-will... damage are just ridiculous now. A companion do almost more damage !).
I read there is a rework of Orb of imposition... Longer duration...good, but who can we control exactly ? What about immunity ? What about PVP where we can't control nothing other than CW and DC ?
It's the promotion of group work. That's fine, but how can we help the group if we are dead ? This changes makes us totally dependent on others. The group can help us to survive. Ok. Now, what can we do for the group ? Oh... yes... we have singularity...
I am sad because if we do not seize this opportunity now while everything is on the table, it will never be done. We have 1 month until the release of M4 and not much hope because the doors are already almost closed.
i agree and i have the same feeling, i will continue some test how ever i do not have any hope for CW, the way it goes won't lead anywhere. it won,t affect CC imum people mob while non immun target will feel eternity once control start at worst some wizard will be able to perma control a player but depending of the class and the construct they may not able to make enough damage to pass the regen recovery. They seems able to make different controle time for wizard depending of pvp pve why not doing same for other control of other class
i already make a RIP on my CW on v4. i'm finishing my lvl enchant and will put it on garbadge. the only unknown actually is only if i will be able to find a new character which i have pleasure with or if i stop the game
i only ask for a fair fight with other class in pvp, i do not want to be neither a god class neither a dead meat class. when i encounter an other class player with around same lvl equip i only expect a 50/50 fight result not a 70/30 or a 25/75 like actually
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nwnghostMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2014
I think the change to Orb of Imposition will allow us to make Perma Stun CW builds now, which I'm not sure is a good thing.
Consider:
Control Bonus from Items (450 Shard of Valindra's Crown + 450 Black Ice Beholder + 150 Llira's Fare) = 1050 (13.8%)
Will O' Wisp = 15%
Cantakerous Mage = 25%
Orb of Imposition = 75%
That would be (if additive) +128.8% (228.8%) Control Bonus
A bit more if you then also use the Black Ice set for another 150 bonus
That is not even considering any future artifacts and items granting Control Bonus
I think the change to Orb of Imposition will allow us to make Perma Stun CW builds now, which I'm not sure is a good thing.
Consider:
Control Bonus from Items (450 Shard of Valindra's Crown + 450 Black Ice Beholder + 150 Llira's Fare) = 1050 (13.8%)
Will O' Wisp = 15%
Cantakerous Mage = 25%
Orb of Imposition = 75%
That would be (if additive) +128.8% (228.8%) Control Bonus
A bit more if you then also use the Black Ice set for another 150 bonus
That is not even considering any future artifacts and items granting Control Bonus
well nwnghost, for pve perma stun CW would be ok as damage will not be there and that will let group to use only one CW and not 2 to have a control+ they are limiting the amount of target and couple of mob have simply control immun so that should be ok and probably even a be something necessary for solo map for cw to get some time to escape dangerous situation.
For pvp well let see. CW control are the only one that have differents time between pvp and pve (i don't know why is not the same for control of other class in pvp)
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nwnghostMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2014
I don't really lose much damage with the above.
My CW on live already uses all of the above minus the Orb of Imposition feat and tops Paingiver+Executioner most of the time.
Removing say Storm Spell will reduce my damage by 5% but grant me crazy control, which effectively negates the 5% loss in damage because I don't even need to move/dodge anymore.
i wonder which tree you play nwnghost, i my thauma way i lost around 50% real damage with the change (30% due simply to the lost of the debuf bonus on ice conduct+ around 20% more due to the differents drop. also seems that the armor neutra from my enchant doesn't do a thing. in IWD on the test i made shard does not shot anymore than an half barr of life on mob and barelly 1 ice barr when crit it change around a 6-20k damage spell to a 3-6k spell. and sudden storm a 10-30k spell become a 7-13k spell. even steal time do less(he was up but debuf were providing a lot for me). maybe it's a bug for me but the spellplague enchant doesn't seems to give anything now
Meh not gonna perma stun anyone really. The capability will be there, but given the nature of dodges and CC breaks we will be better off going Thaum with Orb of imposition up. Ive seen this in many games. Control without damage typically means the Controller will end up dead.
In a 1v1 scenario more control then damage will only mean delaying the inevitable death of the CW, not to mention half the classes have reuseable control immunity in one way or another
Control Wizard: Orb of Imposition: This class feature now works as expected and increases control durations by 25%.
Control Wizard: Orb of Imposition: Ranking this class feature up now grants 25% longer control durations.
Please, can you tell us what is "officially" considered "control" ? What powers ? There is entangling force, repel perhaps, steal time ? Stun is part of that ? Freezing ? Tooltips say nothing about that.
Waiting to test, can we have examples of what can do an increased 25/50/75% duration of a control power ?
Chaotic neutral - so i can do whatever the hell i want
In a 1v1 scenario more control then damage will only mean delaying the inevitable death of the CW, not to mention half the classes have reuseable control immunity in one way or another
Lucky for you that you will have 4 team-mates in the team that can assist you while you control the target.
I'm happy for Orb of Impo. buff, but it's again buffing oppressor tree. I'm guessing DPS builds are more likely to use Storm Spell and : for PvE Evocation; for PvP.... Orb of Impo? Usually it would be EotS for both PvE and PvP, but since you've made it useless (ICD, specially for PvP purpose will render this feat useless) I see having to use Orb of Impo as indicator to forget renegade and go full oppressor where Orb will shine. Is this the point?
Dev's start saving Spellstorm Mage please. You have nerfed literally EVERY end-tree Spellstorm skill: Shard encounter - nerfed. EotS feat - nerfed. Mealstrom of Chaos daily - useless forever except brief period when Valindra fight was bugged.
As for single target CW spells nerf: I'd like to hear justification for it.
Ice knife daily - damage reduced and casting time elongated will make this already easy to escape power completely avoidable.
Chill Strike and EF are mostly used in PvP and not for their meaningless damage, but for the brief (chill) and moderate (EF) immobilize effects. Why nerf almost non-existent damage and to make CWs already horrible time in PvP worse give it longer casting time?
RoE, CoI - used for debuffs mostly, and again not for their damage (maybe only thaumas get some dmg out of Coi, for renegades it's useless ). Same questions as above.
I hope you guys realize that in PvP if you are not imputing enough damage, it doesn't matter how long you can perma-freeze someone. PvP is never 1v1 encounter. CW won't have enough time to happily CC ONE target. Especially that most of classes have some kind of CC immunity or CC breakers and CW has nothing for defence. Today it's pretty decent casting time and moderate chance to land a critical strike, though CWs are still cannon fodder and dead meat in PvP most of the time. After damage nerf, crit chance (EotS nerf), casting time longer, CWs will be even worse in PvP, but also PvE won't make up for it (because SWs, HRs and GWFs will outperform them greatly there, too).
Please, bare in mind that you have let two broken classes (GWFs and HRs with their roots) dominate PvP for far too long. Another action where there is imbalance in PvP because some class skills don't work as intended, and people won't even bother pvping. This is not fun. It wasn't cool to be stun-locked by GWFs, wasn't cool to see GWFs going Unstoppable almost all the time, and wasn't cool to see CC on constricting arrow which was not to be CC skill, and is not cool to be rooted by Roar. From CW perspective, I have to deal with it all, and I don't want to have similar imbalance when module 4 goes live. But you are nerfing already weak class in PvP so what should I expect.
Bids he then the spruces to singer him an anthems!
And the Woodsie Lord binders them fleshes to stone!
I dont know how you cannot notice that mobs doesnt stay alive for 12 secs and if does, it means u are dead.
Also, it's a 15% chance to trigger it, and by the time u finaly make it happen, mobs'll be near death if not already dead.
^ Well, that probably is all Google Translator can do...
Seriously, devs, the two feedbacks in this page once again remind us that reducing Arcane Sigularity's target limit isn't a good solution. 8 targets is not enough to group hordes of mobs. And the result is mobs scatter around and that is bad for the entire party. Players should not be forced to take GF. While GF can be a good bonus, it shouldn't be a must. When we must take a class in order to run a dungeon, many players would be troubled.
^ Well, that probably is all Google Translator can do...
Seriously, devs, the two feedbacks in this page once again remind us that reducing Arcane Sigularity's target limit isn't a good solution. 8 targets is not enough to group hordes of mobs. And the result is mobs scatter around and that is bad for the entire party. Players should not be forced to take GF. While GF can be a good bonus, it shouldn't be a must. When we must take a class in order to run a dungeon, many players would be troubled.
"
The thing is, with things the current way, to control adds you are forced to bring at least 2 cw's, most people bring 3, leaving little space for more classes to join. I thing that with the changes, cw's will still be necessary, but you won't need to stack them in a party in order to control adds. With 1 gf + 1 dc doing the job 2-3 cws currently do, we'll have more space for people to bring more classes to dps.
ASk for moderator/ dev for all class affected. Can you change the first page info of change. it Would be great as it's becoming really hard now to have an idea of all change that came ( with all the change , roleback and adjust that came since the first page)
ASk for moderator/ dev for all class affected. Can you change the first page info of change. it Would be great as it's becoming really hard now to have an idea of all change that came ( with all the change , roleback and adjust that came since the first page)
Just go here. It's the CW list of changes. It's not official, but it is accurate.
Comments
Dear Mr Crush... Can we have the possibility of walking while casting a spell ? (ray of frost perhaps ? http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?707881-Warlock-Tab-add-Skill-slot-%28as-Cw-have%29&p=8403621&viewfull=1#post8403621). That could help a little to survive when stamina is low and for control gameplay.
Please ? :rolleyes:
When will we be able to begin trying this stuff out? Thursday?
Lol , don't quote that , it was a joke , not serious
please use these discussion threads provided instead. Thanks!
We included each of these discussion threads as a link in the [ List ] sticky.
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I was actually excited about mod4 because the feat change to FtF. Even with the nerf to cd/cast time, Mobs will burn at the hands of FtF finally (muhahaha). Idk the dmg nerf really killed a lot of excitement i had.
Why do I feel like this might be a repeat of Deep Gash in module 2?
CRAZY MIKE - 14.6k PvE CW
Backbone - 16.7k PvP HR
[SIGPIC]http://i59.tinypic.com/s3hts7.png[/SIGPIC]
Lol!
Deep Gash did 40-45% dmg in mod2 and it was basically a DOT, Assailing Force is doing only ~2% dmg and its a single target dmg to an aoe specced class.
Before crying wolf it must be realized that with these changes thaumaturgy capstone is only changing from embarassing to somewhat compatable to renegade capstone...
I was thinking that even if you are thaum you should put that one point to bitter cold or something else...
You realize that u just change 6 for a half a dozen right?
Yes the number of ticks is the same, but now they are closer together so it is more 'bursty' and there is less of a chance that a target will die from other damage sources before the DoT runs its full course. Overall this change does make the feat somewhat more effective from my reading of it.
Axios Guild Officer,
Agreed. Also they are now going to benefit from things like arcane mastery, chilling presence, etc. So the damage will go up. I won't criticize that the change is not enough until the change goes onto the preview server and I actually have a chance to test it. Giving specific feedback that "this feat does X% of my damage" is more likely to get them to change something than speculating that it isn't going to be enough.
This is excellent! Far better than I thought it would be! Very stoked about testing this out now
Have you had any thoughts about looking at the Battlewise feat? It's a PvE only effect, and something I've never felt the need to have whilst leveling. It would be great to get something that would make Arcane stacks last longer maybe,
The Brisk Transport feat is hardly noticeable as well, please would you consider extending the teleport range (say 2ft / rank) ?
You buff us (one step forward) and then you buff the other classes more (two steps back).
This is serious. If we can walk when casting ray of frost then we can hope to escape an ennemy running towards us by slowing it.
All the discussion are about DPS. I hope that something will be done for survivability (even if we don't choose oppressor). The loss of DPS is necessary (but not for the at-will... damage are just ridiculous now. A companion do almost more damage !).
I read there is a rework of Orb of imposition... Longer duration...good, but who can we control exactly ? What about immunity ? What about PVP where we can't control nothing other than CW and DC ?
It's the promotion of group work. That's fine, but how can we help the group if we are dead ? This changes makes us totally dependent on others. The group can help us to survive. Ok. Now, what can we do for the group ? Oh... yes... we have singularity...
I am sad because if we do not seize this opportunity now while everything is on the table, it will never be done. We have 1 month until the release of M4 and not much hope because the doors are already almost closed.
i agree and i have the same feeling, i will continue some test how ever i do not have any hope for CW, the way it goes won't lead anywhere. it won,t affect CC imum people mob while non immun target will feel eternity once control start at worst some wizard will be able to perma control a player but depending of the class and the construct they may not able to make enough damage to pass the regen recovery. They seems able to make different controle time for wizard depending of pvp pve why not doing same for other control of other class
i already make a RIP on my CW on v4. i'm finishing my lvl enchant and will put it on garbadge. the only unknown actually is only if i will be able to find a new character which i have pleasure with or if i stop the game
i only ask for a fair fight with other class in pvp, i do not want to be neither a god class neither a dead meat class. when i encounter an other class player with around same lvl equip i only expect a 50/50 fight result not a 70/30 or a 25/75 like actually
Consider:
Control Bonus from Items (450 Shard of Valindra's Crown + 450 Black Ice Beholder + 150 Llira's Fare) = 1050 (13.8%)
Will O' Wisp = 15%
Cantakerous Mage = 25%
Orb of Imposition = 75%
That would be (if additive) +128.8% (228.8%) Control Bonus
A bit more if you then also use the Black Ice set for another 150 bonus
That is not even considering any future artifacts and items granting Control Bonus
For pvp well let see. CW control are the only one that have differents time between pvp and pve (i don't know why is not the same for control of other class in pvp)
My CW on live already uses all of the above minus the Orb of Imposition feat and tops Paingiver+Executioner most of the time.
Removing say Storm Spell will reduce my damage by 5% but grant me crazy control, which effectively negates the 5% loss in damage because I don't even need to move/dodge anymore.
CRAZY MIKE - 14.6k PvE CW
Backbone - 16.7k PvP HR
[SIGPIC]http://i59.tinypic.com/s3hts7.png[/SIGPIC]
Please, can you tell us what is "officially" considered "control" ? What powers ? There is entangling force, repel perhaps, steal time ? Stun is part of that ? Freezing ? Tooltips say nothing about that.
Waiting to test, can we have examples of what can do an increased 25/50/75% duration of a control power ?
Lucky for you that you will have 4 team-mates in the team that can assist you while you control the target.
Dev's start saving Spellstorm Mage please. You have nerfed literally EVERY end-tree Spellstorm skill: Shard encounter - nerfed. EotS feat - nerfed. Mealstrom of Chaos daily - useless forever except brief period when Valindra fight was bugged.
As for single target CW spells nerf: I'd like to hear justification for it.
Ice knife daily - damage reduced and casting time elongated will make this already easy to escape power completely avoidable.
Chill Strike and EF are mostly used in PvP and not for their meaningless damage, but for the brief (chill) and moderate (EF) immobilize effects. Why nerf almost non-existent damage and to make CWs already horrible time in PvP worse give it longer casting time?
RoE, CoI - used for debuffs mostly, and again not for their damage (maybe only thaumas get some dmg out of Coi, for renegades it's useless ). Same questions as above.
I hope you guys realize that in PvP if you are not imputing enough damage, it doesn't matter how long you can perma-freeze someone. PvP is never 1v1 encounter. CW won't have enough time to happily CC ONE target. Especially that most of classes have some kind of CC immunity or CC breakers and CW has nothing for defence. Today it's pretty decent casting time and moderate chance to land a critical strike, though CWs are still cannon fodder and dead meat in PvP most of the time. After damage nerf, crit chance (EotS nerf), casting time longer, CWs will be even worse in PvP, but also PvE won't make up for it (because SWs, HRs and GWFs will outperform them greatly there, too).
Please, bare in mind that you have let two broken classes (GWFs and HRs with their roots) dominate PvP for far too long. Another action where there is imbalance in PvP because some class skills don't work as intended, and people won't even bother pvping. This is not fun. It wasn't cool to be stun-locked by GWFs, wasn't cool to see GWFs going Unstoppable almost all the time, and wasn't cool to see CC on constricting arrow which was not to be CC skill, and is not cool to be rooted by Roar. From CW perspective, I have to deal with it all, and I don't want to have similar imbalance when module 4 goes live. But you are nerfing already weak class in PvP so what should I expect.
Also, it's a 15% chance to trigger it, and by the time u finaly make it happen, mobs'll be near death if not already dead.
Seriously, devs, the two feedbacks in this page once again remind us that reducing Arcane Sigularity's target limit isn't a good solution. 8 targets is not enough to group hordes of mobs. And the result is mobs scatter around and that is bad for the entire party. Players should not be forced to take GF. While GF can be a good bonus, it shouldn't be a must. When we must take a class in order to run a dungeon, many players would be troubled.
The thing is, with things the current way, to control adds you are forced to bring at least 2 cw's, most people bring 3, leaving little space for more classes to join. I thing that with the changes, cw's will still be necessary, but you won't need to stack them in a party in order to control adds. With 1 gf + 1 dc doing the job 2-3 cws currently do, we'll have more space for people to bring more classes to dps.
HR Stormwarden Trapper / Stormwarden Combat
GWF Swordmaster Destroyer
CW Master of Flame Thaumaturge / Spellstorm Oppressor
TR Master Infiltrator Executioner
SW Soulbinder Fury
Just go here. It's the CW list of changes. It's not official, but it is accurate.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?708161-Updated-list-of-Changes-for-Control-Wizard-s-in-Module-4