Still confused about why Oppressive Force's damage is only getting a 9% reduction without any kind of target cap reduction what-so-ever when Singularity is being reduced to 8 targets.
Is this really a control overhaul and damage nerf if Oppressive Force is being left alone? If the goal is make stacking CW less optimal, then why is their uncapped debuff/damage nuke being left in essentially as-is? As if being able to fire off 3 OF won't flatline any number of dungeon add's. (And leave any remainder's at super low health with a huge armor debuff on them.) Any. Number. Oppressive Force scales very well compared to any other option and always has.
So basically, if Oppressive Force is being left as it is right now on preview all of these nerfs will essentially change nothing what-so-ever about the class. People will use the massive AP gain of the MoF to throw around back-to-back Oppressive Force. (Using the class skills of combustive action/critical conflagration is now even more useful than it was.)
Is this an intended design decision to make stacking CW just as profitable as it always was?
Also, consider the joy of stacking Icy Terrain x3 and x3 Oppressive Force on top of it. Smolder anyone? This is just...wasted effort on the part of the developers considering the interaction of these powers along with the High Vizier's set.
I'm serious when I say it will change nothing in the Meta. You will still stack CW to control more and leave the GF at home. Oppressive Force is entirely too good of a daily, and so far that hasn't been addressed in a serious way.
(I think that after people get away from concentrating on the changes to Shard the above will become very evident to anyone that plays the class.)
MoF/Thaum CWSS/Thaum CWIV/Protector GFSW/Combat HRSM/Destroyer GWFWK/Executioner TRDO/Faithful DC
0
aulduronMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,351Arc User
edited June 2014
Wouldn't target caps require more CWs?
0
silverquickMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 1Arc User
They use it because of its damage but with this update: almost nobody will use CoI (reduced damage, doesn't proc from thaum feat anymore-some oppressors/MoFs may use it due to freeze) and sudden storm gets 30% dmg nerf and increased CD.
Ergo destroying the Thunder and Lightning based... Spellstorm. And turning it into a half azzed cold mage it was never designed to be.
MoFs need to use FtT on Tab in order to make Fanning the Flame an AoE, thereby removing any possibility they will be doing any chill stack builds... negating any benefit from Oppressor tree.
Also how do you see CC being AoE damage here? It's not p&p D&D you know.
Still confused about why Oppressive Force's damage is only getting a 9% reduction without any kind of target cap reduction what-so-ever when Singularity is being reduced to 8 targets.
Is this really a control overhaul and damage nerf if Oppressive Force is being left alone? If the goal is make stacking CW less optimal, then why is their uncapped debuff/damage nuke being left in essentially as-is? As if being able to fire off 3 OF won't flatline any number of dungeon add's. (And leave any remainder's at super low health with a huge armor debuff on them.) Any. Number. Oppressive Force scales very well compared to any other option and always has.
So basically, if Oppressive Force is being left as it is right now on preview all of these nerfs will essentially change nothing what-so-ever about the class. People will use the massive AP gain of the MoF to throw around back-to-back Oppressive Force. (Using the class skills of combustive action/critical conflagration is now even more useful than it was.)
Is this an intended design decision to make stacking CW just as profitable as it always was?
Also, consider the joy of stacking Icy Terrain x3 and x3 Oppressive Force on top of it. Smolder anyone? This is just...wasted effort on the part of the developers considering the interaction of these powers along with the High Vizier's set.
I'm serious when I say it will change nothing in the Meta. You will still stack CW to control more and leave the GF at home. Oppressive Force is entirely too good of a daily, and so far that hasn't been addressed in a serious way.
(I think that after people get away from concentrating on the changes to Shard the above will become very evident to anyone that plays the class.)
+1. I was thinking the exact same thing: 3-5 cw-s spamming OF obliterate pretty much everything. Just run past monsters dropping some aoe skills to fill AP and gather a large group of monsters, then drop an OF or two to kill them all instantly. Insane damage, no target cap, and a long daze to anything that should somehow survive.
We are making a change to the shift powers for all classes to make them more responsive and improve player survivability as long as you can react. Being able to shift out of encounters and dailies will make reacting a much more important factor in high end PVE and PVP combat.
Guardian Fighter: Block: Block can now interrupt all powers and should feel much more responsive.
Great Weapon Fighter: Sprint: Sprint can now interrupt all powers and should feel much more responsive.
Devoted Cleric: Dodge: Dodge can now interrupt all powers and should feel much more responsive.
Trickster Rogue: Shift: Shift can now interrupt all powers and should feel much more responsive.
Hunter Ranger: Shift: Shift can now interrupt all powers and should feel much more responsive.
Control Wizard: Teleport: Teleport can now interrupt all powers and should feel much more responsive.
This change can have some serious impacts on balance, so when it reaches Preview we would like players to test it as much as possible, but we believe that players should not be punished for attempting to cast powers before an area is threatened. This change should alleviate much of that, as well as improving interactions for all the shift mechanics.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
Wont this make dodges from GWF, GF and HR stronger than TR, CW's and DC? because if you spam the shift key you can cancel the ability.. and even if you dont spam the shift on the keyboard, the first 3 will have more times to cancel abilities than the last 3 because, for example, comparing GWF sprint with the CW dodge, CW's have normally 3 dodges available, but GWF can get into sprint and out much more times!
I like this idea, but it might have to be very well studied or we will have a lot of unbalance!
When you throw 20 mobs at a party, you need more control. That's not the problem the CW created rather one created by game content designer. Tougher Fewer mobs would be more challenging and allow GF to hold agro. Also could have Friendly (mobs) inside Dungeons that we will need to keep alive would make guardian fighters more needed as well. Spawning pools such as Spell Plague are Great ideas. Nerf Current Gear (High Vizier Set)
I have to agree with this... if in the dungeons you had to face more elite mobs and less trash mobs (like fomorians warriors, golems, etc...) GF could be more desirable.
Seriously? How you can bring on the table something giving another OBVIOUS advantage for HR and GWF when you can see they are totaly owning the 5 VS 5 domination.
Another change to make the HP-Regen-defensive HR and GWF build even more OP considering they can use this ability more than others.
Put on the table something giving a true global class balance.
For example : MAGIC defense-deflect and PHYSICAL defense-deflect, that's the way to have fun, giving some new tools to balance damages, a better way to have balanced team for PVP.
Magical users should have a high-medium magical defense-deflect and a medium-poor physical defense-deflect. (wich is already the case for the physical part)
But physiscal users should have a medium-poor magical defense-deflect
> this is here, where your main balance have a serious problem.
You can add magical penetration enchants like armor prenetration enchant, and people should make another choice on what they want to be moore efficient. (and magical-deflect defense enchants of course)
This is something common in most of the games.
And it's how you can make a better PVP AND A BETTER PVE by the way, allowing to have a slot for every class and not only the OP class of the day. (months)
Your change about shift powers have nothing to do with balance, like tenacity it allows to make a fight longer with moore survivability (mainly for GWF and HR actually) but at the end the result is another unbalanced moove.
0
silverquickMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 1Arc User
I have to agree with this... if in the dungeons you had to face more elite mobs and less trash mobs (like fomorians warriors, golems, etc...) GF could be more desirable.
In D&D you could use imaginative ways to bypass content: Stone Shape to open a way around, Climb Walls, Pass Door, etc. You also had lots of secret or concealed doors, trapdoors, i.e. dungeons that were nonlinear.
Introduce some random aspects to dungeons: maybe there will be a secret door somewhere that you can take advantage of, or an NPC you could interact with who could offer a way around some threats (if you have a good enough Charisma score), or a concealed mechanism that could do something nasty to the critters in the next room. Maybe an obscure note that, if left in the right place, would get two factions of critters fighting *each other*. You know, stuff we would do in actual AD&D.
Maybe you need a dwarf to manipulate that stone mechanism to open a way around, or a thief to find it in the first place. Maybe you need a CW if it's of a magical nature, or a DC if it's of a divine nature. Maybe you need a ranger to lasso the lever across the chasm so you can operate it.
Harper Chronicles: Cap Snatchers (RELEASED) - NW-DPUTABC6X Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
0
adernathMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
You release Very powerful artifacts, more powerful companions, overpowered t2 gear and you accuse CW of doing too much damage and Nerf the CW class to nothing!
Don't create it and we will not buy it, will not work for it, and can not acquire it.
*** Are you familiar with what happened to the Netherese? They Harnessed the power that was there in the world, created a floating citadel for themselves. YOUR CW (rework) is Cataclysmic to those who wield the power of magic!***
We've gone from 4th edition to ADND while everyone else is still in 4th edition...
May Gygax haunt you in your dreams.
I agree. The class is gimped because of all the whiny people who think they have to compete with CWs and GWFs in regards of AOE DPS. It is the dungeon design with massive amounts of trashmobs which makes these classes the most usefull. New dungeons designed differently would have made the other classes usefull as well.
I would like to have as a compensation that at least my artifacts are made account bound, so that I can transfer them to a new toon - like my future warlock.
Suggestions to improve NW:
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
Ergo destroying the Thunder and Lightning based... Spellstorm. And turning it into a half azzed cold mage it was never designed to be.
MoFs need to use FtT on Tab in order to make Fanning the Flame an AoE, thereby removing any possibility they will be doing any chill stack builds... negating any benefit from Oppressor tree.
While I can accept it is not D&D exactly, at least keeping to the flavor of it would be nice.
Don't take me wrong, I understand your point but NWO is a lot diffrent than regular D&D in terms of combat.
Here we have to worry about enemies going after us and our CC powers should keep them at bay primarily and deal damage secondarily otherwise many angry elites may want to eat our (or our teammates) backside when they're close enough.
Besides Storm Cage is actual SS paragon path power: http://dnd4.wikia.com/wiki/Spellstorm_Mage
Perhaps put a cap on how many targets can be held by shatter at one time instead?
Why? Give some reasonable arguments to why this should have IC or target cap because "I think it shouldn't proc so often" isn't valid argument.
Also there is a cap limit, it's called: as many as were frozen
0
psychaos999Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I agree. The class is gimped because of all the whiny people who think they have to compete with CWs and GWFs in regards of AOE DPS. It is the dungeon design with massive amounts of trashmobs which makes these classes the most usefull. New dungeons designed differently would have made the other classes usefull as well.
I would like to have as a compensation that at least my artifacts are made account bound, so that I can transfer them to a new toon - like my future warlock.
People whine not because they envy your lookatmybigepeen dps. But because they can't no longer run dungeons.
You are a gwf or a cw or you wait.
It's not hard to understand, is it? You are mages, you should have an high int roll.
0
silverquickMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 1Arc User
People whine not because they envy your lookatmybigepeen dps.
But because they can't no longer run dungeons.
You are a gwf or a cw or you wait.
It's not hard to understand, is it? You are mages, you should have an high int roll.
Hey no problem, I understand that... But you don't go <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> on everyone else's fun... just to do it.
You want other classes more viable, I'm fine with that... you want to ruin someone else's fun OR class to do it...
Then its no longer about "making other classes viable"... its about selfishness, envy and jealousy.
Which doesn't say much for you.... or what your REAL motive is...
With the current "nerfs" 4-5x CW will still run through CN spamming OPRESSIVE FORCE (huge damage with no target cap) and laughing at all the other mortal classes. Some people say it works even better on preview, just with respec to MOF. 4-5 CW still the best way to farm CN (the only place in game that allows decent AD/hour aside from AH flips and leadership farms).
So, i ask again. WHAT NERF? CW is a PVE god now, and will be a PVE god in mod 4. This IS control wizards online, afterall.
this is absurd. your logic is beazre
1. u got lame char like GF
2. insted of making it better u make everyone else bad
3. u didnt raaised GF dmg at all, just threat. as a GF i tell u with 15500 gs i die like a beech in kessel and like. and allways last dmg. u didnt fix nothing. u could make war cry with real party bonus insted of this stupid mark.
4. the cw will become lame, and this is the only chr worth playing in your game.
5. insted of try and make some more intresting fights (and not just adding mobs) and harder in intresting ways, u nerf ppl who play more then a year. this is a lame stategy! ppl invest time and money here, they are atteched to thier avatar. if u feel there is unbalace, nake other stronger and add more contant.
such a long list of nerfing is just telling me: "u are a sucker, u should run from this game"
and i will
i dont mind to pay to win, everyone needs to make a liveng, but i dont like to waste time
0
psychaos999Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Hey no problem, I understand that... But you don't go <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> on everyone else's fun... just to do it.
You want other classes more viable, I'm fine with that... you want to ruin someone else's fun OR class to do it...
Then its no longer about "making other classes viable"... its about selfishness, envy and jealousy.
Which doesn't say much for you.... or what your REAL motive is...
I have SERIOUS problem with that.
My real motive? Having fun. This pvp and pve can't be fun now with all this imbalance.
You say I have an hidden agenda. But you should say this to YOU. YOU are the one who don't want to play fair with other classes.
And you don't want to understand that buffing all other classes is not feasible
We are already at defence cap, but the damage some classes can dish out, still oblitarate every opponent.
What should devs do? Giving unstoppable to every class? There aren't so many parameters they can manipulate.
Belive me if they could give everybody a sense of power, they'd do that. Because that would mean profit.
But now they have to nerf some classes to make rooms to the rest of the players.
There is no other way around this problem.
At the moment the only tree that works properly on Test is Oppressor. I gave that a try and it's a blast to play (as MoF anyway) around IWD and the new ToD quests. I reckon we need to wait until the other trees are patched and can be properly tested before throwing words like 'cataclysmic' around.
The only people who are terrified are the ones who just play CW. As a player who has other classes, i know how ridiculous the damage CWs do. How overpowered they are in PvE and a one man killing machine.
The people who are calling out doom and quitting just do not see this, and how it helps the game as a whole, they want to do more damage all the other classes along with all the ultility, which is not going to happen no matter how much they scream.
CWs will be fine, and hopefully in better shape than they are in now in terms of balance, everyone and their mother seems to be playing a CW. Hopefully those who wanted something OP will go balance out to other classes.
All I know is that after reading the preview server notes, I no longer really have the heart to bother playing on the Live server. With these changes hanging over my CW's head its like being told I have only a couple of months to live. My CW is my favorite toon. It is my best geared toon. It is the toon I have spent the most time playing. I have 7 L60's including a Fire Mage and one of each other class.
After reading these proposed changes, all I am doing on my toons is invoking and crafting. I have also started looking for another game to play until I find out what the state of the CW is going to become. I've been on the Preview Server and completely hate the specing I have to do now to get some decent damage. <sigh>
Exactly how I feel except I haven't logged on since I read those patch notes (nerfs).
The only people who are terrified are the ones who just play CW. As a player who has other classes, i know how ridiculous the damage CWs do. How overpowered they are in PvE and a one man killing machine.
The people who are calling out doom and quitting just do not see this, and how it helps the game as a whole, they want to do more damage all the other classes along with all the ultility, which is not going to happen no matter how much they scream.
CWs will be fine, and hopefully in better shape than they are in now in terms of balance, everyone and their mother seems to be playing a CW. Hopefully those who wanted something OP will go balance out to other classes.
This. The CWs that will be hurt the most are the ones who only know how to run 3+ CW parties. They don't understand the rest of the game and will have trouble coping. There are in fact many pro CWs that can run any compostion and have tried several classes and understand how to work wioth them. For the reat? After how many months of serial molesting CN for AD? My sympathy is limited to say the least.
0
ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
edited June 2014
People need to relax a bit...regardless of how the changes shake out, you have some very smart CW theory-crafters here who will get your poor CW back on top.
My mind is already swirling with some options that I think are pretty cool. If anything, CW's are going to be MORE in demand in Module 4 with some of these changes.
Personally, I have no intentions of falling out of the number one spot in Paingiver, while still being able to make dungeon runs silky smooth by controlling mobs. If anything, I think these changes are going to make that easier. Sure, I probably won't be doubling or tripling the damage done of other classes, but I hardly expect to fall out of the top.
If i follow their logical they should nerf to the ground GWF-HR-and TR perma because they are totally outter the lines when you see the PVP ladder.
it's not the good path making everyone unhappy.
They should work on this simple fact.
A magical user should make bigger damage on Physical user, and Physical user should be efficient on magical user, both for PVE and PVP.
This is the only way to have a serious class balance.
It's not the case and they can try what they want it won't work, making a class op for months untill the next nerf.
0
silverquickMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 1Arc User
The only people who are terrified are the ones who just play CW. As a player who has other classes, i know how ridiculous the damage CWs do. How overpowered they are in PvE and a one man killing machine.
The people who are calling out doom and quitting just do not see this, and how it helps the game as a whole, they want to do more damage all the other classes along with all the ultility, which is not going to happen no matter how much they scream.
CWs will be fine, and hopefully in better shape than they are in now in terms of balance, everyone and their mother seems to be playing a CW. Hopefully those who wanted something OP will go balance out to other classes.
I don't think so Grimah...
This isn't some "adjustment"... for balance... that would be just like... oh reducing Eye of the Storm to a 25 second CD... thus greatly reducing the large amount of Crits from what is in essence a burst nuking caster class.
Or perhaps... reducing the Shards damage by 20%, or perhaps reducing the overall damage of all the trees by 20%...
THIS... is ripping every piece of Burst Nuke damage COMPLETELY out of the Spellstorm... and shoving Icy Terrrain down everyone's throats and Ramming some kind of half azzed Ice Mage at them...
Its ripping the entire Spellstorm Path into pieces. It completely tore up and destroyed TWO entire CW Feat Trees.
It isn't even in QUESTION... that this thing wasn't to "balance" any damage. You don't lose 67% damage of a Paragon Path and Feat Trees damage.... and call it... "balancing" it...
It was to completely rip apart two entire paragon trees, and turn what was supposed to be a "burst" Lightning and Thunder style nuker into another DoT based caster... OF which the MoF already holds that slot...
Right now the Spellstorm path isn't even remotely competitive with the MoF.
SO unless your ACTUAL idea here was to shove a bunch of players into a path that is unwanted and unwelcome...
Then this has no point other than to completely annihilate the Spellstorm tree as a whole and turn it into something it is not. This has NOTHING to do with "making other classes viable"
Its about Destroying an entire Paragon path an ripping up two Feat trees...
The only people who are terrified are the ones who just play CW. As a player who has other classes, i know how ridiculous the damage CWs do. How overpowered they are in PvE and a one man killing machine.
The people who are calling out doom and quitting just do not see this, and how it helps the game as a whole, they want to do more damage all the other classes along with all the ultility, which is not going to happen no matter how much they scream.
CWs will be fine, and hopefully in better shape than they are in now in terms of balance, everyone and their mother seems to be playing a CW. Hopefully those who wanted something OP will go balance out to other classes.
I have to disagree about 'the only people who are terrified.' My first char and one of my favorites is a CW. (you took me on my first completion of TOS once upon a time.) I have at least one of each class at level 60 and geared. I agree that CW damage is out of line, but it's not the damage nerfs that scare me. It's the fact that redesigning entire feat trees, ruining Rene (which is my CW's spec) throwing off my timing by changing cast times, especially for my main at-will, that's daunting. Less damage I can live with. Throwing away vast swaths of a class (probably resulting in many new bugs) and making me relearn everything about how it feels to play, that's daunting.
"We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
The only people who are terrified are the ones who just play CW. As a player who has other classes, i know how ridiculous the damage CWs do. How overpowered they are in PvE and a one man killing machine.
The people who are calling out doom and quitting just do not see this[...]
I also play all classes. And I've been working on all my builds for over a year to make them perfect. I understand where the "OP" is coming from. And it's everything but the single target spells.
Nerfed spells that have nothing to do with it at all and are only useful in PvP, where we're already the worst class:
- Ray of Enfeeblement
- Entangling Force
- Magic Missile
- Ice Knife
Nerfed spells that have something to do with it, but should not be changed in a way that affects PvP:
- Chill Strike (give it a smaller target cap on Spell Mastery... maybe 3 instead of 5; or leave it as it is, it's the least affecting one)
- Shard of Endless Avalanche (only nerf the normal one's damage, not the one's on Spell Mastery)
- Oppressive Force (nerf the target cap, not the damage)
Spells that have to be nerfed in order to balance the classes regarding the CW:
- Steal Time (This is the absolute number 1 reason why the CW is OP! What did they do? They buffed the damage by 65 % and lowered the cooldown.)
- Sudden Storm (already nerfed, which is one of almost none good decisions there)
- Icy Terrain (maybe a slight damage nerf)
- Singularity (already nerfed)
- Change the High Vizier 4-set bonus from 450 per tick to 100 per tick.
- Fix that Steal Time has an 80 % chance to proc Eye of the Storm.
After these changes, the CW should be balanced. GWFs and HRs should be able to outdps the CW easily with these changes.
Then TEST IT!!!!! If you still think the CW is OP, which would completely contradict with my testing results, you could nerf some of the damage CWs get per Chill stack, maybe slightly nerf the Thaumaturge tree (the one and only PvE tree). A Thaumaturge build deals up to 300% more PvE damage than a Renegade build. Oppressor isn't a damage build at all. There is no reason to touch that path (or the Eye of the Storm passive).
But anyway, it is useless now for me to log on preview, because I know I won't be able to play the CW in the new Mod, because of the activation time changes. The physical rotations I've been practicing as a Renegade for over a year cannot be completed without looking at the cooldowns anymore. The timing between spells doesn't fit anymore. Again: not complaining about full Renegade tree destruction, not complaining about different cooldowns, only complaining about the absolutely useless activation time changes which flush all the physical practice for over a year down the drain.
Comments
Still confused about why Oppressive Force's damage is only getting a 9% reduction without any kind of target cap reduction what-so-ever when Singularity is being reduced to 8 targets.
Is this really a control overhaul and damage nerf if Oppressive Force is being left alone? If the goal is make stacking CW less optimal, then why is their uncapped debuff/damage nuke being left in essentially as-is? As if being able to fire off 3 OF won't flatline any number of dungeon add's. (And leave any remainder's at super low health with a huge armor debuff on them.) Any. Number. Oppressive Force scales very well compared to any other option and always has.
So basically, if Oppressive Force is being left as it is right now on preview all of these nerfs will essentially change nothing what-so-ever about the class. People will use the massive AP gain of the MoF to throw around back-to-back Oppressive Force. (Using the class skills of combustive action/critical conflagration is now even more useful than it was.)
Is this an intended design decision to make stacking CW just as profitable as it always was?
Also, consider the joy of stacking Icy Terrain x3 and x3 Oppressive Force on top of it. Smolder anyone? This is just...wasted effort on the part of the developers considering the interaction of these powers along with the High Vizier's set.
I'm serious when I say it will change nothing in the Meta. You will still stack CW to control more and leave the GF at home. Oppressive Force is entirely too good of a daily, and so far that hasn't been addressed in a serious way.
(I think that after people get away from concentrating on the changes to Shard the above will become very evident to anyone that plays the class.)
Ergo destroying the Thunder and Lightning based... Spellstorm. And turning it into a half azzed cold mage it was never designed to be.
MoFs need to use FtT on Tab in order to make Fanning the Flame an AoE, thereby removing any possibility they will be doing any chill stack builds... negating any benefit from Oppressor tree.
If you want that question answered... then here's the thread for it.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?692651-Control-Wizards-how-close-are-they-do-the-D-amp-D-definitions-your-opinion
While I can accept it is not D&D exactly, at least keeping to the flavor of it would be nice.
+1. I was thinking the exact same thing: 3-5 cw-s spamming OF obliterate pretty much everything. Just run past monsters dropping some aoe skills to fill AP and gather a large group of monsters, then drop an OF or two to kill them all instantly. Insane damage, no target cap, and a long daze to anything that should somehow survive.
Wont this make dodges from GWF, GF and HR stronger than TR, CW's and DC? because if you spam the shift key you can cancel the ability.. and even if you dont spam the shift on the keyboard, the first 3 will have more times to cancel abilities than the last 3 because, for example, comparing GWF sprint with the CW dodge, CW's have normally 3 dodges available, but GWF can get into sprint and out much more times!
I like this idea, but it might have to be very well studied or we will have a lot of unbalance!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I have to agree with this... if in the dungeons you had to face more elite mobs and less trash mobs (like fomorians warriors, golems, etc...) GF could be more desirable.
C'mon you can't seriously believe that.
Another change to make the HP-Regen-defensive HR and GWF build even more OP considering they can use this ability more than others.
Put on the table something giving a true global class balance.
For example : MAGIC defense-deflect and PHYSICAL defense-deflect, that's the way to have fun, giving some new tools to balance damages, a better way to have balanced team for PVP.
Magical users should have a high-medium magical defense-deflect and a medium-poor physical defense-deflect. (wich is already the case for the physical part)
But physiscal users should have a medium-poor magical defense-deflect
> this is here, where your main balance have a serious problem.
You can add magical penetration enchants like armor prenetration enchant, and people should make another choice on what they want to be moore efficient. (and magical-deflect defense enchants of course)
This is something common in most of the games.
And it's how you can make a better PVP AND A BETTER PVE by the way, allowing to have a slot for every class and not only the OP class of the day. (months)
Your change about shift powers have nothing to do with balance, like tenacity it allows to make a fight longer with moore survivability (mainly for GWF and HR actually) but at the end the result is another unbalanced moove.
Not CWs as a whole.
But it crushes the Spellstorm, an destroys two of the CW trees in a way that are not recoverable.
There's no excuse for that.
You know that too.... this was way overdone.
If you think this was the "right thing to do"
Then I will be there when the Nerfholics come for Rangers next... this was just a witch hunt. With no purpose.
In D&D you could use imaginative ways to bypass content: Stone Shape to open a way around, Climb Walls, Pass Door, etc. You also had lots of secret or concealed doors, trapdoors, i.e. dungeons that were nonlinear.
Introduce some random aspects to dungeons: maybe there will be a secret door somewhere that you can take advantage of, or an NPC you could interact with who could offer a way around some threats (if you have a good enough Charisma score), or a concealed mechanism that could do something nasty to the critters in the next room. Maybe an obscure note that, if left in the right place, would get two factions of critters fighting *each other*. You know, stuff we would do in actual AD&D.
Maybe you need a dwarf to manipulate that stone mechanism to open a way around, or a thief to find it in the first place. Maybe you need a CW if it's of a magical nature, or a DC if it's of a divine nature. Maybe you need a ranger to lasso the lever across the chasm so you can operate it.
Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF
Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP
The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
I agree. The class is gimped because of all the whiny people who think they have to compete with CWs and GWFs in regards of AOE DPS. It is the dungeon design with massive amounts of trashmobs which makes these classes the most usefull. New dungeons designed differently would have made the other classes usefull as well.
I would like to have as a compensation that at least my artifacts are made account bound, so that I can transfer them to a new toon - like my future warlock.
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
I would tend to agree.
Perhaps put a cap on how many targets can be held by shatter at one time instead?
Don't take me wrong, I understand your point but NWO is a lot diffrent than regular D&D in terms of combat.
Here we have to worry about enemies going after us and our CC powers should keep them at bay primarily and deal damage secondarily otherwise many angry elites may want to eat our (or our teammates) backside when they're close enough.
Besides Storm Cage is actual SS paragon path power: http://dnd4.wikia.com/wiki/Spellstorm_Mage
Why? Give some reasonable arguments to why this should have IC or target cap because "I think it shouldn't proc so often" isn't valid argument.
Also there is a cap limit, it's called: as many as were frozen
People whine not because they envy your lookatmybigepeen dps. But because they can't no longer run dungeons.
You are a gwf or a cw or you wait.
It's not hard to understand, is it? You are mages, you should have an high int roll.
Hey no problem, I understand that... But you don't go <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> on everyone else's fun... just to do it.
You want other classes more viable, I'm fine with that... you want to ruin someone else's fun OR class to do it...
Then its no longer about "making other classes viable"... its about selfishness, envy and jealousy.
Which doesn't say much for you.... or what your REAL motive is...
I have SERIOUS problem with that.
WHAT NERF?
With the current "nerfs" 4-5x CW will still run through CN spamming OPRESSIVE FORCE (huge damage with no target cap) and laughing at all the other mortal classes. Some people say it works even better on preview, just with respec to MOF. 4-5 CW still the best way to farm CN (the only place in game that allows decent AD/hour aside from AH flips and leadership farms).
So, i ask again. WHAT NERF? CW is a PVE god now, and will be a PVE god in mod 4. This IS control wizards online, afterall.
1. u got lame char like GF
2. insted of making it better u make everyone else bad
3. u didnt raaised GF dmg at all, just threat. as a GF i tell u with 15500 gs i die like a beech in kessel and like. and allways last dmg. u didnt fix nothing. u could make war cry with real party bonus insted of this stupid mark.
4. the cw will become lame, and this is the only chr worth playing in your game.
5. insted of try and make some more intresting fights (and not just adding mobs) and harder in intresting ways, u nerf ppl who play more then a year. this is a lame stategy! ppl invest time and money here, they are atteched to thier avatar. if u feel there is unbalace, nake other stronger and add more contant.
such a long list of nerfing is just telling me: "u are a sucker, u should run from this game"
and i will
i dont mind to pay to win, everyone needs to make a liveng, but i dont like to waste time
My real motive? Having fun. This pvp and pve can't be fun now with all this imbalance.
You say I have an hidden agenda. But you should say this to YOU. YOU are the one who don't want to play fair with other classes.
And you don't want to understand that buffing all other classes is not feasible
We are already at defence cap, but the damage some classes can dish out, still oblitarate every opponent.
What should devs do? Giving unstoppable to every class? There aren't so many parameters they can manipulate.
Belive me if they could give everybody a sense of power, they'd do that. Because that would mean profit.
But now they have to nerf some classes to make rooms to the rest of the players.
There is no other way around this problem.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
The people who are calling out doom and quitting just do not see this, and how it helps the game as a whole, they want to do more damage all the other classes along with all the ultility, which is not going to happen no matter how much they scream.
CWs will be fine, and hopefully in better shape than they are in now in terms of balance, everyone and their mother seems to be playing a CW. Hopefully those who wanted something OP will go balance out to other classes.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
Exactly how I feel except I haven't logged on since I read those patch notes (nerfs).
This. The CWs that will be hurt the most are the ones who only know how to run 3+ CW parties. They don't understand the rest of the game and will have trouble coping. There are in fact many pro CWs that can run any compostion and have tried several classes and understand how to work wioth them. For the reat? After how many months of serial molesting CN for AD? My sympathy is limited to say the least.
My mind is already swirling with some options that I think are pretty cool. If anything, CW's are going to be MORE in demand in Module 4 with some of these changes.
Personally, I have no intentions of falling out of the number one spot in Paingiver, while still being able to make dungeon runs silky smooth by controlling mobs. If anything, I think these changes are going to make that easier. Sure, I probably won't be doubling or tripling the damage done of other classes, but I hardly expect to fall out of the top.
If i follow their logical they should nerf to the ground GWF-HR-and TR perma because they are totally outter the lines when you see the PVP ladder.
it's not the good path making everyone unhappy.
They should work on this simple fact.
A magical user should make bigger damage on Physical user, and Physical user should be efficient on magical user, both for PVE and PVP.
This is the only way to have a serious class balance.
It's not the case and they can try what they want it won't work, making a class op for months untill the next nerf.
I don't think so Grimah...
This isn't some "adjustment"... for balance... that would be just like... oh reducing Eye of the Storm to a 25 second CD... thus greatly reducing the large amount of Crits from what is in essence a burst nuking caster class.
Or perhaps... reducing the Shards damage by 20%, or perhaps reducing the overall damage of all the trees by 20%...
THIS... is ripping every piece of Burst Nuke damage COMPLETELY out of the Spellstorm... and shoving Icy Terrrain down everyone's throats and Ramming some kind of half azzed Ice Mage at them...
Its ripping the entire Spellstorm Path into pieces. It completely tore up and destroyed TWO entire CW Feat Trees.
It isn't even in QUESTION... that this thing wasn't to "balance" any damage. You don't lose 67% damage of a Paragon Path and Feat Trees damage.... and call it... "balancing" it...
It was to completely rip apart two entire paragon trees, and turn what was supposed to be a "burst" Lightning and Thunder style nuker into another DoT based caster... OF which the MoF already holds that slot...
Right now the Spellstorm path isn't even remotely competitive with the MoF.
SO unless your ACTUAL idea here was to shove a bunch of players into a path that is unwanted and unwelcome...
Then this has no point other than to completely annihilate the Spellstorm tree as a whole and turn it into something it is not. This has NOTHING to do with "making other classes viable"
Its about Destroying an entire Paragon path an ripping up two Feat trees...
I also play all classes. And I've been working on all my builds for over a year to make them perfect. I understand where the "OP" is coming from. And it's everything but the single target spells.
Nerfed spells that have nothing to do with it at all and are only useful in PvP, where we're already the worst class:
- Ray of Enfeeblement
- Entangling Force
- Magic Missile
- Ice Knife
Nerfed spells that have something to do with it, but should not be changed in a way that affects PvP:
- Chill Strike (give it a smaller target cap on Spell Mastery... maybe 3 instead of 5; or leave it as it is, it's the least affecting one)
- Shard of Endless Avalanche (only nerf the normal one's damage, not the one's on Spell Mastery)
- Oppressive Force (nerf the target cap, not the damage)
Spells that have to be nerfed in order to balance the classes regarding the CW:
- Steal Time (This is the absolute number 1 reason why the CW is OP! What did they do? They buffed the damage by 65 % and lowered the cooldown.)
- Sudden Storm (already nerfed, which is one of almost none good decisions there)
- Icy Terrain (maybe a slight damage nerf)
- Singularity (already nerfed)
- Change the High Vizier 4-set bonus from 450 per tick to 100 per tick.
- Fix that Steal Time has an 80 % chance to proc Eye of the Storm.
After these changes, the CW should be balanced. GWFs and HRs should be able to outdps the CW easily with these changes.
Then TEST IT!!!!! If you still think the CW is OP, which would completely contradict with my testing results, you could nerf some of the damage CWs get per Chill stack, maybe slightly nerf the Thaumaturge tree (the one and only PvE tree). A Thaumaturge build deals up to 300% more PvE damage than a Renegade build. Oppressor isn't a damage build at all. There is no reason to touch that path (or the Eye of the Storm passive).
But anyway, it is useless now for me to log on preview, because I know I won't be able to play the CW in the new Mod, because of the activation time changes. The physical rotations I've been practicing as a Renegade for over a year cannot be completed without looking at the cooldowns anymore. The timing between spells doesn't fit anymore. Again: not complaining about full Renegade tree destruction, not complaining about different cooldowns, only complaining about the absolutely useless activation time changes which flush all the physical practice for over a year down the drain.